[Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Krishna-Arjuna relationship

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinod,

Thanks a lot for your detailed infmn on Bhima.The point I wanted to project is

not the valour of any of the pandavas.Bhima of course is having a great place in

the protection of all the pandavas and Draupati.No doubt abt that.I quite agree

with you on the aspects and the stories you have enumerated about the heroism of

Bhima.But you have not seen the subject matter I have taken viz.WHY LORD KRISHNA

CHOSE ARJUNA FOR HIS DISCIPLE IN IMPARTING THE TEACHINGS AND NOT OTHERS.There is

no question of the greatness of Bhima as a warrior and protector of the pandava

family.May be you may call him a Karma yogi.But still his might would not have

allowed him to act as a messenger of grasping,digesting the teachings of Yogic

principles enunciated by the Lord as Bhima was not trained in that way.Moreover

Bhima never possessed so much devotion to Krishna as Arjuna.It is true he vowed

to kill duchadhana for offending Draupadi etc as narrated by you.I fully agree

all such portions.Unless one is mighty

and valour he could not save his brothers and wife and he created terror in the

minds of Kauravas.No dispute on those counts.There is no misconception on my

part about his strength and doing things as requested by his brothers and

wife.He is a real hero in Bharatha.

 

But that is not the point I wished to embark on.The simple question is why Lord

Krishna chose Arjuna as the messiah for His teachings.Bhima with all his might

may be a karma yogi as you say but was a man of anger and in such a person the

teachings of the niceties of the various yogas and way of living wont go to his

head as his mind was full of taking revenge and he was not having absolute

dedication to the Lord.Even when he countered Anjaneya, his brother he wanted to

show his might and got a gud lesson from the Great Hanuman.So egoism was at the

core in his mind.Such mind cannot understand the significance that is imparted

in the teachings of Krishna.So at best we can say Bhima as a great and mighty

warrior.There is no misundertsanding about his prowess and it is acknowledged

that he is a hero without parallel in his own way in warfare though he did not

have any backing from others.But the very nature of his character did not suit

the Lord to choose him as His disciple to do His

Gitopadesa which only a devoted,self surrendered devotee to the Lord alone can

fulfil His mission.Hence Krishna preferred Arjuna to Bhima or Yudhishtra.Bhimas

nature being such he could not implement or understand the great yogic

principles narrated by the Lord as he believed in his might than other

things.Such a person is unfit for absorbing yoga principles or getting

enligtenment of the teachings of Krishna.

 

Perhaps you may be under the impression that I have not understood Bhima

properly.But again the point is for the Lord to preach His message required a

devotee which veritably suited only to Arjuna who acted to what the Lord said in

his all activities.Even when Arjuna and Duryodhana wanted help of Krishna for

waging the war while Duryodhana who was anxious to have the army preferred the

same as he believed that will destroy the Pandavas,Arjuna preferred the Lord to

be on their side though the Lord put a condition that He will be available to

both on condition that if He is going to help He wont take weapons and the other

choice is the whole of army can be taken by one of the two.So by his nature

Arjuna being an ardent devotee par excellence preferred Him to be on their

side even if He did not wield any armour.So Krishna preferred Arjuna than Bhima

or Yudhishtra in fulfilling His mission.I have simply stated that the animal

instincts or killer instincts were more evident in Bhima

than Arjuna.I do feel there is a misconception of my portrayal which must have

made you to think that I have some criticism of the valour of Bhima.Not at all.A

disciple shuld be a dedicated,devoted person to his Lord/Guru and then only

after tests the Lord/Guru takes Him as His disciple.Perhaps you might have heard

the story of disciples of Adi Sankara in which a disciple very much devoted to

Sankara was washing the clothes of Sankara on the opposite bank of Ganges

whereas other disciples were learning the teachings from Sankara.On seeing the

absence of that particular disciple Sankara called him by name.The disciple

always keeping Sankara in his mind always just ran over to him crossing the

Ganges and there were lotus flowers sprang up wherever he put his feet.He never

bothered abt the river or having fear that he will get immersed as his mind was

in tune with that of Sankara.Such was his devotion that Sankara named him

Padapadmananda.When such devotion springs from the mind of the

devotee even nature will be at his beck and call.Such was the devotion of

Arjuna.Hence the choice of him by Lord Krishna for imparting His teachings.

I feel I have clarified the doubt lingering in your mind to the best of my

ability as I am of the opinion you have not understood the topic I hv selected.I

dont know I may be right or wrong but for the topic I hv given my version and

not to criticise Bhima or his prowess.THOUGH I HAVE GIVEN THE TOPIC AS

KRISHNA-ARJUNA RELATIONSHIP I ACTUALLY INTENTED TO DWELL UPON THE TOPIC OF WHY

KRISHNA PREFERRED ARJUNA FOR HIS TEACHINGS THAN OTHERS.PERHAPS THE HEAD OF THE

TOPIC MAY HAVE BEEN MISUNDERSTOOD AS I DWELT THE POINT IN LATER PARAS ONLY.

From the reply I have seen that you have euologised Bhima for his valour which

is not at all disputed.Here the point is not the question of might and affection

of Bhima which is an acknowledged factor but one of why the Lord preferred

Arjuna to others for his Teachings.

I must thank you for your views expressed though the same does not suit the

subject,I fear. Best wishes.

 

Hare Krishna,tupyam namaha

 

agraman

 

 

vinod_ps77 <vinod.ps wrote:

!! Sri Rama Jayam !!

 

 

Dear Shri A G Raman,

 

Respect your effort in bringing out the essence of Krishnarjuna

relationship. That's a readable one. I am very sorry, for I cud not

digest your intention on - " If waging the war was the main issue

there was Bhima ever thirsting for it... " & " Animal impetuosity was

still dominant in Bhima... "

These words can generate a lack of respect when anyone thinks abt

Bhima - a great Karma yogi, indeed. This can be purely based on my

observation & self study on Bhima. Bhima as a person always attracted

me more than Arjuna on several points right from his birth. There is

a very common feeling spread across Indian subcontinent about Bhima,

as a person who looked very stuffy & very eager to show his might on

anybody who comes in his way. This is what we all might have heard

abt this great human from our elders in childhood. But I don't know

how many of us might have really spent some time to understand the

real pandu putra & a righteous warrior called " Bhima " .

Bhima, the mighty son of wind god (younger brother of Sri Anjaneya),

second to Yuddhistra, had a very captivating appearance in terms of

his wisdom & valour. He was a very dearly prince of Hastinapura.

Mahabharata unfolds that Arjuna was very dear to Bhishma; Yuddhistra

to Vidura & Madri's sons were a major responsibility on Kunti's

shoulders. But for Bhima, there was no any major backup. On the

contrary, he had many visible & invisible enemies like the sons of

Dhritrashtra & ofcourse cunning Shakuni. Bhima had earned a more in-

deep understanding abt kuru family right from childhood. But he'd

never let it know on others. Thus, Bhima spent his childhood in the

crisis of dissipating relationships recollecting all the ruins

imposed on him (like serving him with poisoned food & finally being

thrown to the deep waters of Ganges). Fortunately, no other 4

pandavas had experienced such a shocking memory of childhood. But all

these did not instabilized Bhima's moral. He found good friends in

Hastinapura, who always boosted & cheered for him.

Young Bhima, after returning from his schooling, added joy & good

hopes to the Kuru family. He was the first Pandava to receive the

wedding proposal from the princess of Kashi. That time Kashi state

was not in good terms with Hastinapura.

After the occurence of Lakshagraham scandal, the wandering pandavas

in the forest met a major threat in the form of Hidimb, a daitya, who

was then slayed by the mighty son of Kunti. Hidimba, the sister of

the dead daitya, seek the refuge of Kunti & expressed her keen

interest to marry Bhima. That was not a recommended practice in those

times. But it was acceptable to Kunti & Yuddhistira, as it was a good

option to expand power & province. Bhima simply waved his head for no

objection. Thus, he was a very dedicated son & loyal brother that

way. But to his misfortune, the first wife of Bhima was never

recognized or accepted by the royal Kuru family, as it shud be. Bhima

never complained on that.

On a similar occasion, Bhima was sent by Kunti to face the anguish of

demon Bakasura so as to safegaurd the citizens of Ekachakra village.

So, placing Bhima as a shield to recover any calamity was a usual

method for Kunti & others.

In the midst of dice play, when Draupadi was forcefully brought into

the court by Duhshasana, it was none other than Bhima who took vow to

end the life of Duhshasana. There, Bhima can be witnessed as a

faithful & caring husband - a quality always lacked by other

pandavas. For Draupadi, Bhima was more a good friend with whom she

always rejoiced to express the smallest of her wish. And there was

Bhima always to fulfill that. That's why Bhima was more approachable

to Draupadi. In the dying stage, Draupadi expressed that, she would

always prefer to be reborn as the most respected wife of pandavas,

but, next time it should be Bhima in place of Yuddhistira. That

clearly explains the true importance of this mighty hero of

Mahabharata.

There are many more instances to support. Not willing to extend the

writing too much.

Novel titled " Randaam Oozham " by M T Vasudevan, is a good reading in

this respect. It gives a condensed picture of Bhima as a real hero.

 

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

Hare Krishna ...

Hare Rama ......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62>

wrote:

> Hare Krishna,

> The consummation of the Jivatman on the Paramatman has been

construed in the Upanishads.The same principle is explained through

the relationship that existed between Sri Krishna and Arjuna.They

were inseparable chums.Time and again Arjuna had a difficulty to

overcome.He was also in need of something to enrich his earthly

life.On all such occasions Achutha came to his rescue.In fact He

seemed indispensable to Arjuna in all matters of importance.Arjuna

got his guidance in education,enthusing in play.support in contests

and protection while drudging in exile.In all such situations Sri

Krishna was the friend,philosopher and guide of Arjuna.He had given

away his sister Subhadra in marriage to his friend.Finally when the

great war broke out He chose to play the charioteer to His chum.It

was on this momentous occasion that He imparted to His friend His

supreme teaching immortalised as Bhagawat Gita.A great help than this

could not have been rendered.The relationship between the individual

> soul and the Cosmic reality has thus been personified.Through

countless births and deaths the former is a ward to the latter.Till

the time when the Lord decided to remove the delusion of Arjuna he

had enough of worldly enjoyment and experience.When the time came the

Lord undertook to carry the Divine Light unto him.

>

> Of the five brothers Sri Krishna chose Arjuna in particular for his

disciple.Why?There was a significance in this act of His.If waging

the war was the main issue there was Bhima ever thirsting for it.He

was only awaiting sanction from Yudhishtra.If he had been called to

duty he would have plunged headlong into it.On the other hand if the

issue was the vindication of righteousness,there was Yudhishtra the

very embodiment of it,who could have been made the main defender.But

neither of them was chosen by the Lord.Arjuna the archer was

deliberately selected for this purpose.Animal impetuosity was still

dominant in Bhima.Such a man was not quite a fit agent for the

practice of Yoga.He would neither enquire into yoga nor translate it

into action.On the other side,a person of Yudhishtras calibre was

already fairly well established in yoga.He could well have been

called a yogi.Any further enlightenment carried to him would have

been a superfluity.But Arjunas attainments stood somewhere

> between these two extremes.He had definitely outgrown animal

propensities.At the same time he had not yet entered the domain that

was divine.Only the ordinary human elements were predominant in

him.In a normal man both virtue and vice are found intermingled in

varying degrees.To eschew the lingering vice and to get well drilled

in the growing virtue is the purpose of life.Arjuna represnted the

normal man.To a person of his type the message of Gita was bound to

prove most fruitful.Any person with normal human traits is competent

both to study and to put into practice ,the teachings of Gita.

> So to inculcate the understanding of His teachings of the various

aspects of life leading ultimately to Bliss the Lord preferred Arjuna

as His tool to impart His great teachings in the form of Gita.

>

> Salutations to that Muralikrishna.the Indweller of all.

>

> agraman

>

>

>

> India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.

>

>

[Guest guest]

!! Sri Rama Jayam !!

 

Hello Mr Raman,

 

Very sorry, if my writing hurt you in any way. I am very happy to read your

intention, which I might have taken in a slightly different way. The words you

have written is really adoptable & true. My explanation on Bhima is not at all

aimed to compare him with Arjuna love for Krishna (Ofcourse, Krishnarjuna are

ONE). I respect both of them & their comparison is out of my scope of

discussion. I feel both of them are very dear to Lord for each of them always

obeyed/served their beloved Krishna. Morari Bapu, a well known Saint from

Gujarat, in one of his commentaries quotes that when Bhima feels exhausted in

the course of the whole day battle, he just looks into Arjuna's chariot & he

witnesses the graceful figure of Lord Krishna & his dear big brother Hanuman (on

Arjuna's flag) as implying " Do your karma, I am with you... "

What else Bhima would have asked more than to experience this unique feeling.

This instance has always motivated me & have added a big respect for Bhima in my

heart.

 

Thanks.

 

Hare Krishna ...

Hare Rama .....

 

 

 

 

 

guruvayur [guruvayur ]On Behalf Of

GANAPATHY RAMAN

Monday, May 02, 2005 1:29 AM

guruvayur

Re: [Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Re: Krishna-Arjuna relationship

 

 

Dear Vinod,

Thanks a lot for your detailed infmn on Bhima.The point I wanted to project is

not the valour of any of the pandavas.Bhima of course is having a great place in

the protection of all the pandavas and Draupati.No doubt abt that.I quite agree

with you on the aspects and the stories you have enumerated about the heroism of

Bhima.But you have not seen the subject matter I have taken viz.WHY LORD KRISHNA

CHOSE ARJUNA FOR HIS DISCIPLE IN IMPARTING THE TEACHINGS AND NOT OTHERS.There is

no question of the greatness of Bhima as a warrior and protector of the pandava

family.May be you may call him a Karma yogi.But still his might would not have

allowed him to act as a messenger of grasping,digesting the teachings of Yogic

principles enunciated by the Lord as Bhima was not trained in that way.Moreover

Bhima never possessed so much devotion to Krishna as Arjuna.It is true he vowed

to kill duchadhana for offending Draupadi etc as narrated by you.I fully agree

all such portions.Unless one ! is mighty

and valour he could not save his brothers and wife and he created terror in the

minds of Kauravas.No dispute on those counts.There is no misconception on my

part about his strength and doing things as requested by his brothers and

wife.He is a real hero in Bharatha.

 

But that is not the point I wished to embark on.The simple question is why Lord

Krishna chose Arjuna as the messiah for His teachings.Bhima with all his might

may be a karma yogi as you say but was a man of anger and in such a person the

teachings of the niceties of the various yogas and way of living wont go to his

head as his mind was full of taking revenge and he was not having absolute

dedication to the Lord.Even when he countered Anjaneya, his brother he wanted to

show his might and got a gud lesson from the Great Hanuman.So egoism was at the

core in his mind.Such mind cannot understand the significance that is imparted

in the teachings of Krishna.So at best we can say Bhima as a great and mighty

warrior.There is no misundertsanding about his prowess and it is acknowledged

that he is a hero without parallel in his own way in warfare though he did not

have any backing from others.But the very nature of his character did not suit

the Lord to choose him as His ! disciple to do His

Gitopadesa which only a devoted,self surrendered devotee to the Lord alone can

fulfil His mission.Hence Krishna preferred Arjuna to Bhima or Yudhishtra.Bhimas

nature being such he could not implement or understand the great yogic

principles narrated by the Lord as he believed in his might than other

things.Such a person is unfit for absorbing yoga principles or getting

enligtenment of the teachings of Krishna.

 

Perhaps you may be under the impression that I have not understood Bhima

properly.But again the point is for the Lord to preach His message required a

devotee which veritably suited only to Arjuna who acted to what the Lord said in

his all activities.Even when Arjuna and Duryodhana wanted help of Krishna for

waging the war while Duryodhana who was anxious to have the army preferred the

same as he believed that will destroy the Pandavas,Arjuna preferred the Lord to

be on their side though the Lord put a condition that He will be available to

both on condition that if He is going to help He wont take weapons and the other

choice is the whole of army can be taken by one of the two.So by his nature

Arjuna being an ardent devotee par excellence preferred Him to be on their

side even if He did not wield any armour.So Krishna preferred Arjuna than Bhima

or Yudhishtra in fulfilling His mission.I have simply stated that the animal

instincts or killer instincts were ! more evident in Bhima

than Arjuna.I do feel there is a misconception of my portrayal which must have

made you to think that I have some criticism of the valour of Bhima.Not at all.A

disciple shuld be a dedicated,devoted person to his Lord/Guru and then only

after tests the Lord/Guru takes Him as His disciple.Perhaps you might have heard

the story of disciples of Adi Sankara in which a disciple very much devoted to

Sankara was washing the clothes of Sankara on the opposite bank of Ganges

whereas other disciples were learning the teachings from Sankara.On seeing the

absence of that particular disciple Sankara called him by name.The disciple

always keeping Sankara in his mind always just ran over to him crossing the

Ganges and there were lotus flowers sprang up wherever he put his feet.He never

bothered abt the river or having fear that he will get immersed as his mind was

in tune with that of Sankara.Such was his devotion that Sankara named him

Padapadmananda.When such devotion springs from the mi! nd of the

devotee even nature will be at his beck and call.Such was the devotion of

Arjuna.Hence the choice of him by Lord Krishna for imparting His teachings.

I feel I have clarified the doubt lingering in your mind to the best of my

ability as I am of the opinion you have not understood the topic I hv selected.I

dont know I may be right or wrong but for the topic I hv given my version and

not to criticise Bhima or his prowess.THOUGH I HAVE GIVEN THE TOPIC AS

KRISHNA-ARJUNA RELATIONSHIP I ACTUALLY INTENTED TO DWELL UPON THE TOPIC OF WHY

KRISHNA PREFERRED ARJUNA FOR HIS TEACHINGS THAN OTHERS.PERHAPS THE HEAD OF THE

TOPIC MAY HAVE BEEN MISUNDERSTOOD AS I DWELT THE POINT IN LATER PARAS ONLY.

From the reply I have seen that you have euologised Bhima for his valour which

is not at all disputed.Here the point is not the question of might and affection

of Bhima which is an acknowledged factor but one of why the Lord preferred

Arjuna to others for his Teachings.

I must thank you for your views expressed though the same does not suit the

subject,I fear. Best wishes.

 

Hare Krishna,tupyam namaha

 

agraman

 

 

vinod_ps77 <vinod.ps wrote:

!! Sri Rama Jayam !!

 

 

Dear Shri A G Raman,

 

Respect your effort in bringing out the essence of Krishnarjuna

relationship. That's a readable one. I am very sorry, for I cud not

digest your intention on - " If waging the war was the main issue

there was Bhima ever thirsting for it... " & " Animal impetuosity was

still dominant in Bhima... "

These words can generate a lack of respect when anyone thinks abt

Bhima - a great Karma yogi, indeed. This can be purely based on my

observation & self study on Bhima. Bhima as a person always attracted

me more than Arjuna on several points right from his birth. There is

a very common feeling spread across Indian subcontinent about Bhima,

as a person who looked very stuffy & very eager to show his might on

anybody who comes in his way. This is what we all might have heard

abt this great human from our elders in childhood. But I don't know

how many of us might have really spent some time to understand the

real pandu putra & a righteous warrior called " Bhima " .

Bhima, the mighty son of wind god (younger brother of Sri Anjaneya),

second to Yuddhistra, had a very captivating appearance in terms of

his wisdom & valour. He was a very dearly prince of Hastinapura.

Mahabharata unfolds that Arjuna was very dear to Bhishma; Yuddhistra

to Vidura & Madri's sons were a major responsibility on Kunti's

shoulders. But for Bhima, there was no any major backup. On the

contrary, he had many visible & invisible enemies like the sons of

Dhritrashtra & ofcourse cunning Shakuni. Bhima had earned a more in-

deep understanding abt kuru family right from childhood. But he'd

never let it know on others. Thus, Bhima spent his childhood in the

crisis of dissipating relationships recollecting all the ruins

imposed on him (like serving him with poisoned food & finally being

thrown to the deep waters of Ganges). Fortunately, no other 4

pandavas had experienced such a shocking memory of childhood. But all

these did not instabilized Bhima's moral. He found good friends in

Hastinapura, who always boosted & cheered for him.

Young Bhima, after returning from his schooling, added joy & good

hopes to the Kuru family. He was the first Pandava to receive the

wedding proposal from the princess of Kashi. That time Kashi state

was not in good terms with Hastinapura.

After the occurence of Lakshagraham scandal, the wandering pandavas

in the forest met a major threat in the form of Hidimb, a daitya, who

was then slayed by the mighty son of Kunti. Hidimba, the sister of

the dead daitya, seek the refuge of Kunti & expressed her keen

interest to marry Bhima. That was not a recommended practice in those

times. But it was acceptable to Kunti & Yuddhistira, as it was a good

option to expand power & province. Bhima simply waved his head for no

objection. Thus, he was a very dedicated son & loyal brother that

way. But to his misfortune, the first wife of Bhima was never

recognized or accepted by the royal Kuru family, as it shud be. Bhima

never complained on that.

On a similar occasion, Bhima was sent by Kunti to face the anguish of

demon Bakasura so as to safegaurd the citizens of Ekachakra village.

So, placing Bhima as a shield to recover any calamity was a usual

method for Kunti & others.

In the midst of dice play, when Draupadi was forcefully brought into

the court by Duhshasana, it was none other than Bhima who took vow to

end the life of Duhshasana. There, Bhima can be witnessed as a

faithful & caring husband - a quality always lacked by other

pandavas. For Draupadi, Bhima was more a good friend with whom she

always rejoiced to express the smallest of her wish. And there was

Bhima always to fulfill that. That's why Bhima was more approachable

to Draupadi. In the dying stage, Draupadi expressed that, she would

always prefer to be reborn as the most respected wife of pandavas,

but, next time it should be Bhima in place of Yuddhistira. That

clearly explains the true importance of this mighty hero of

Mahabharata.

There are many more instances to support. Not willing to extend the

writing too much.

Novel titled " Randaam Oozham " by M T Vasudevan, is a good reading in

this respect. It gives a condensed picture of Bhima as a real hero.

 

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

Hare Krishna ...

Hare Rama ......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62>

wrote:

> Hare Krishna,

> The consummation of the Jivatman on the Paramatman has been

construed in the Upanishads.The same principle is explained through

the relationship that existed between Sri Krishna and Arjuna.They

were inseparable chums.Time and again Arjuna had a difficulty to

overcome.He was also in need of something to enrich his earthly

life.On all such occasions Achutha came to his rescue.In fact He

seemed indispensable to Arjuna in all matters of importance.Arjuna

got his guidance in education,enthusing in play.support in contests

and protection while drudging in exile.In all such situations Sri

Krishna was the friend,philosopher and guide of Arjuna.He had given

away his sister Subhadra in marriage to his friend.Finally when the

great war broke out He chose to play the charioteer to His chum.It

was on this momentous occasion that He imparted to His friend His

supreme teaching immortalised as Bhagawat Gita.A great help than this

could not have been rendered.The relationship between the individual

> soul and the Cosmic reality has thus been personified.Through

countless births and deaths the former is a ward to the latter.Till

the time when the Lord decided to remove the delusion of Arjuna he

had enough of worldly enjoyment and experience.When the time came the

Lord undertook to carry the Divine Light unto him.

>

> Of the five brothers Sri Krishna chose Arjuna in particular for his

disciple.Why?There was a significance in this act of His.If waging

the war was the main issue there was Bhima ever thirsting for it.He

was only awaiting sanction from Yudhishtra.If he had been called to

duty he would have plunged headlong into it.On the other hand if the

issue was the vindication of righteousness,there was Yudhishtra the

very embodiment of it,who could have been made the main defender.But

neither of them was chosen by the Lord.Arjuna the archer was

deliberately selected for this purpose.Animal impetuosity was still

dominant in Bhima.Such a man was not quite a fit agent for the

practice of Yoga.He would neither enquire into yoga nor translate it

into action.On the other side,a person of Yudhishtras calibre was

already fairly well established in yoga.He could well have been

called a yogi.Any further enlightenment carried to him would have

been a superfluity.But Arjunas attainments stood somewhere

> between these two extremes.He had definitely outgrown animal

propensities.At the same time he had not yet entered the domain that

was divine.Only the ordinary human elements were predominant in

him.In a normal man both virtue and vice are found intermingled in

varying degrees.To eschew the lingering vice and to get well drilled

in the growing virtue is the purpose of life.Arjuna represnted the

normal man.To a person of his type the message of Gita was bound to

prove most fruitful.Any person with normal human traits is competent

both to study and to put into practice ,the teachings of Gita.

> So to inculcate the understanding of His teachings of the various

aspects of life leading ultimately to Bliss the Lord preferred Arjuna

as His tool to impart His great teachings in the form of Gita.

>

> Salutations to that Muralikrishna.the Indweller of all.

>

> agraman

>

>

>

> India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinod,

Thanks for yr reply which only elevates you on high pedestal.Why shuld I be hurt

by your arguments in favour of Bhima when I hv never said anything out of the

way of the character of Bhima and Arjuna.In fact I hv never even compared them

in detail in my topic but only gave a cursory note of the mental set up of both

which can be said to be of different nature.Indubitably I hv acknowledged

Bhima as a great warrior and affectionate to his family but only in respect of

taking him into the realm of the Great Teachings that the Lord decided to bestow

on humanity He used Arjuna as a better tool than Bhima for reasons already

discussed elaborately.There is no need for you to feel that you hv hurt my

feelings.Why?for what? I only brought to yr notice that you hv misunderstood me

without going in deep the msge I portrayed.It normally happens to all.Nobody can

claim infallibility.On the other hand I must say excuses if my elaborate reply

has made you feel that I felt hurt.In a family of

devotees to Lord such misunderstanding is common and there is no need to say

sorry and all such things which becomes a type of superfluity.

I am not of that kind to expect that only my views shuld be accepted and in a

mood to challenge the same if others hv written something against that.I always

keep my poise and equanimity and since I felt that you hv not understood

properly the topic I chose I had to give the reply in a lengthy way.I always

welcome if I hv said something wrong as that is the only way to develop our

knowledge and I always admit my mistakes if I hv gone wrong in my

presentation.So my dear Vinod there is nothing for you to feel that you hv

wounded my feelings as such a thing makes me more vulnerable.It is the right of

any Member to point out the deficiency of anybodys presentation so that more

light will shed on the presenter.Keeping aloof without making comments will

actually hv the reverse effect as the presenter will feel what he said is

correct as there are no comments and this will inflate his/her ego.That

situation shuld not arise in a forum dedicated to the Lord.So always there shuld

be comments

and discussions till the real picture is unfolded.Am I correct?

 

You said Krisharjuna are the One.Yes in a way it is true.Like Siva and Hanuman

are One as there is a parable that Lord Siva wanted to see the leelas of Sri

Rama and wanted to help Rama in some capacity as Siva could not take part in the

episode directly as He gave boons to Ravana that he shuld be killed only by a

human being.So Siva assumed the garb of Hanuman to fulfil the purpose of Rama

avatar hiding his real identity,That is why we call Hanuman as Rudraroopi.In our

mythology there are many such Oneness and about that we can hv a discussion

later.You hv quoted that Bhima when he felt exhausted saw Krishna and Hanuman

and assumed that a direction had come to do his duty and the Lord will be with

Him.Exactly the Lord will always be with a Karma Yogi directing him to do his

duty.Bhima in that was really a blessed soul which endears him to all.But the

difference is though Bhima felt a direction to do his duty Krishna selected only

Arjuna to impart the various yogas and way of living

and such other things and never preferred Bhima as His tool for His eternal

Teachings of Gita as the Lord fellt Arjuna shuld be the proper instrument to

take His Wisdom and deliver to mankind for gud becoz of his nature and devotion.

 

Anyway I think this topic must hv evoked some interest on the Members of the

Group and I also wish that all Members shuld express their views on any matter

presented by any Member and in this way more enligtenment on various topics can

be discussed and make the forum to come out of its slumber.

Once again I thank you for dragging a good discussion and never say again that

if I felt hurt sorry and such things which actually I abhor.After all we are of

the same family group and it is the right of any one to remove any

misrepresentation by the presenter of a topic by putting him in the correct

perspective.

 

Hare Krishna,

agraman

 

 

" PS, Vinod K (GE Energy) " <vinod.ps wrote:

!! Sri Rama Jayam !!

 

Hello Mr Raman,

 

Very sorry, if my writing hurt you in any way. I am very happy to read your

intention, which I might have taken in a slightly different way. The words you

have written is really adoptable & true. My explanation on Bhima is not at all

aimed to compare him with Arjuna love for Krishna (Ofcourse, Krishnarjuna are

ONE). I respect both of them & their comparison is out of my scope of

discussion. I feel both of them are very dear to Lord for each of them always

obeyed/served their beloved Krishna. Morari Bapu, a well known Saint from

Gujarat, in one of his commentaries quotes that when Bhima feels exhausted in

the course of the whole day battle, he just looks into Arjuna's chariot & he

witnesses the graceful figure of Lord Krishna & his dear big brother Hanuman (on

Arjuna's flag) as implying " Do your karma, I am with you... "

What else Bhima would have asked more than to experience this unique feeling.

This instance has always motivated me & have added a big respect for Bhima in my

heart.

 

Thanks.

 

Hare Krishna ...

Hare Rama .....

 

 

 

 

 

guruvayur [guruvayur ]On Behalf Of

GANAPATHY RAMAN

Monday, May 02, 2005 1:29 AM

guruvayur

Re: [Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Re: Krishna-Arjuna relationship

 

 

Dear Vinod,

Thanks a lot for your detailed infmn on Bhima.The point I wanted to project is

not the valour of any of the pandavas.Bhima of course is having a great place in

the protection of all the pandavas and Draupati.No doubt abt that.I quite agree

with you on the aspects and the stories you have enumerated about the heroism of

Bhima.But you have not seen the subject matter I have taken viz.WHY LORD KRISHNA

CHOSE ARJUNA FOR HIS DISCIPLE IN IMPARTING THE TEACHINGS AND NOT OTHERS.There is

no question of the greatness of Bhima as a warrior and protector of the pandava

family.May be you may call him a Karma yogi.But still his might would not have

allowed him to act as a messenger of grasping,digesting the teachings of Yogic

principles enunciated by the Lord as Bhima was not trained in that way.Moreover

Bhima never possessed so much devotion to Krishna as Arjuna.It is true he vowed

to kill duchadhana for offending Draupadi etc as narrated by you.I fully agree

all such portions.Unless one ! is

mighty

and valour he could not save his brothers and wife and he created terror in the

minds of Kauravas.No dispute on those counts.There is no misconception on my

part about his strength and doing things as requested by his brothers and

wife.He is a real hero in Bharatha.

 

But that is not the point I wished to embark on.The simple question is why Lord

Krishna chose Arjuna as the messiah for His teachings.Bhima with all his might

may be a karma yogi as you say but was a man of anger and in such a person the

teachings of the niceties of the various yogas and way of living wont go to his

head as his mind was full of taking revenge and he was not having absolute

dedication to the Lord.Even when he countered Anjaneya, his brother he wanted to

show his might and got a gud lesson from the Great Hanuman.So egoism was at the

core in his mind.Such mind cannot understand the significance that is imparted

in the teachings of Krishna.So at best we can say Bhima as a great and mighty

warrior.There is no misundertsanding about his prowess and it is acknowledged

that he is a hero without parallel in his own way in warfare though he did not

have any backing from others.But the very nature of his character did not suit

the Lord to choose him as His ! disciple to do His

Gitopadesa which only a devoted,self surrendered devotee to the Lord alone can

fulfil His mission.Hence Krishna preferred Arjuna to Bhima or Yudhishtra.Bhimas

nature being such he could not implement or understand the great yogic

principles narrated by the Lord as he believed in his might than other

things.Such a person is unfit for absorbing yoga principles or getting

enligtenment of the teachings of Krishna.

 

Perhaps you may be under the impression that I have not understood Bhima

properly.But again the point is for the Lord to preach His message required a

devotee which veritably suited only to Arjuna who acted to what the Lord said in

his all activities.Even when Arjuna and Duryodhana wanted help of Krishna for

waging the war while Duryodhana who was anxious to have the army preferred the

same as he believed that will destroy the Pandavas,Arjuna preferred the Lord to

be on their side though the Lord put a condition that He will be available to

both on condition that if He is going to help He wont take weapons and the other

choice is the whole of army can be taken by one of the two.So by his nature

Arjuna being an ardent devotee par excellence preferred Him to be on their

side even if He did not wield any armour.So Krishna preferred Arjuna than Bhima

or Yudhishtra in fulfilling His mission.I have simply stated that the animal

instincts or killer instincts were ! more evident in Bhima

than Arjuna.I do feel there is a misconception of my portrayal which must have

made you to think that I have some criticism of the valour of Bhima.Not at all.A

disciple shuld be a dedicated,devoted person to his Lord/Guru and then only

after tests the Lord/Guru takes Him as His disciple.Perhaps you might have heard

the story of disciples of Adi Sankara in which a disciple very much devoted to

Sankara was washing the clothes of Sankara on the opposite bank of Ganges

whereas other disciples were learning the teachings from Sankara.On seeing the

absence of that particular disciple Sankara called him by name.The disciple

always keeping Sankara in his mind always just ran over to him crossing the

Ganges and there were lotus flowers sprang up wherever he put his feet.He never

bothered abt the river or having fear that he will get immersed as his mind was

in tune with that of Sankara.Such was his devotion that Sankara named him

Padapadmananda.When such devotion springs from the mi! nd of the

devotee even nature will be at his beck and call.Such was the devotion of

Arjuna.Hence the choice of him by Lord Krishna for imparting His teachings.

I feel I have clarified the doubt lingering in your mind to the best of my

ability as I am of the opinion you have not understood the topic I hv selected.I

dont know I may be right or wrong but for the topic I hv given my version and

not to criticise Bhima or his prowess.THOUGH I HAVE GIVEN THE TOPIC AS

KRISHNA-ARJUNA RELATIONSHIP I ACTUALLY INTENTED TO DWELL UPON THE TOPIC OF WHY

KRISHNA PREFERRED ARJUNA FOR HIS TEACHINGS THAN OTHERS.PERHAPS THE HEAD OF THE

TOPIC MAY HAVE BEEN MISUNDERSTOOD AS I DWELT THE POINT IN LATER PARAS ONLY.

From the reply I have seen that you have euologised Bhima for his valour which

is not at all disputed.Here the point is not the question of might and affection

of Bhima which is an acknowledged factor but one of why the Lord preferred

Arjuna to others for his Teachings.

I must thank you for your views expressed though the same does not suit the

subject,I fear. Best wishes.

 

Hare Krishna,tupyam namaha

 

agraman

 

 

vinod_ps77 <vinod.ps wrote:

!! Sri Rama Jayam !!

 

 

Dear Shri A G Raman,

 

Respect your effort in bringing out the essence of Krishnarjuna

relationship. That's a readable one. I am very sorry, for I cud not

digest your intention on - " If waging the war was the main issue

there was Bhima ever thirsting for it... " & " Animal impetuosity was

still dominant in Bhima... "

These words can generate a lack of respect when anyone thinks abt

Bhima - a great Karma yogi, indeed. This can be purely based on my

observation & self study on Bhima. Bhima as a person always attracted

me more than Arjuna on several points right from his birth. There is

a very common feeling spread across Indian subcontinent about Bhima,

as a person who looked very stuffy & very eager to show his might on

anybody who comes in his way. This is what we all might have heard

abt this great human from our elders in childhood. But I don't know

how many of us might have really spent some time to understand the

real pandu putra & a righteous warrior called " Bhima " .

Bhima, the mighty son of wind god (younger brother of Sri Anjaneya),

second to Yuddhistra, had a very captivating appearance in terms of

his wisdom & valour. He was a very dearly prince of Hastinapura.

Mahabharata unfolds that Arjuna was very dear to Bhishma; Yuddhistra

to Vidura & Madri's sons were a major responsibility on Kunti's

shoulders. But for Bhima, there was no any major backup. On the

contrary, he had many visible & invisible enemies like the sons of

Dhritrashtra & ofcourse cunning Shakuni. Bhima had earned a more in-

deep understanding abt kuru family right from childhood. But he'd

never let it know on others. Thus, Bhima spent his childhood in the

crisis of dissipating relationships recollecting all the ruins

imposed on him (like serving him with poisoned food & finally being

thrown to the deep waters of Ganges). Fortunately, no other 4

pandavas had experienced such a shocking memory of childhood. But all

these did not instabilized Bhima's moral. He found good friends in

Hastinapura, who always boosted & cheered for him.

Young Bhima, after returning from his schooling, added joy & good

hopes to the Kuru family. He was the first Pandava to receive the

wedding proposal from the princess of Kashi. That time Kashi state

was not in good terms with Hastinapura.

After the occurence of Lakshagraham scandal, the wandering pandavas

in the forest met a major threat in the form of Hidimb, a daitya, who

was then slayed by the mighty son of Kunti. Hidimba, the sister of

the dead daitya, seek the refuge of Kunti & expressed her keen

interest to marry Bhima. That was not a recommended practice in those

times. But it was acceptable to Kunti & Yuddhistira, as it was a good

option to expand power & province. Bhima simply waved his head for no

objection. Thus, he was a very dedicated son & loyal brother that

way. But to his misfortune, the first wife of Bhima was never

recognized or accepted by the royal Kuru family, as it shud be. Bhima

never complained on that.

On a similar occasion, Bhima was sent by Kunti to face the anguish of

demon Bakasura so as to safegaurd the citizens of Ekachakra village.

So, placing Bhima as a shield to recover any calamity was a usual

method for Kunti & others.

In the midst of dice play, when Draupadi was forcefully brought into

the court by Duhshasana, it was none other than Bhima who took vow to

end the life of Duhshasana. There, Bhima can be witnessed as a

faithful & caring husband - a quality always lacked by other

pandavas. For Draupadi, Bhima was more a good friend with whom she

always rejoiced to express the smallest of her wish. And there was

Bhima always to fulfill that. That's why Bhima was more approachable

to Draupadi. In the dying stage, Draupadi expressed that, she would

always prefer to be reborn as the most respected wife of pandavas,

but, next time it should be Bhima in place of Yuddhistira. That

clearly explains the true importance of this mighty hero of

Mahabharata.

There are many more instances to support. Not willing to extend the

writing too much.

Novel titled " Randaam Oozham " by M T Vasudevan, is a good reading in

this respect. It gives a condensed picture of Bhima as a real hero.

 

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

Hare Krishna ...

Hare Rama ......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62>

wrote:

> Hare Krishna,

> The consummation of the Jivatman on the Paramatman has been

construed in the Upanishads.The same principle is explained through

the relationship that existed between Sri Krishna and Arjuna.They

were inseparable chums.Time and again Arjuna had a difficulty to

overcome.He was also in need of something to enrich his earthly

life.On all such occasions Achutha came to his rescue.In fact He

seemed indispensable to Arjuna in all matters of importance.Arjuna

got his guidance in education,enthusing in play.support in contests

and protection while drudging in exile.In all such situations Sri

Krishna was the friend,philosopher and guide of Arjuna.He had given

away his sister Subhadra in marriage to his friend.Finally when the

great war broke out He chose to play the charioteer to His chum.It

was on this momentous occasion that He imparted to His friend His

supreme teaching immortalised as Bhagawat Gita.A great help than this

could not have been rendered.The relationship between the individual

> soul and the Cosmic reality has thus been personified.Through

countless births and deaths the former is a ward to the latter.Till

the time when the Lord decided to remove the delusion of Arjuna he

had enough of worldly enjoyment and experience.When the time came the

Lord undertook to carry the Divine Light unto him.

>

> Of the five brothers Sri Krishna chose Arjuna in particular for his

disciple.Why?There was a significance in this act of His.If waging

the war was the main issue there was Bhima ever thirsting for it.He

was only awaiting sanction from Yudhishtra.If he had been called to

duty he would have plunged headlong into it.On the other hand if the

issue was the vindication of righteousness,there was Yudhishtra the

very embodiment of it,who could have been made the main defender.But

neither of them was chosen by the Lord.Arjuna the archer was

deliberately selected for this purpose.Animal impetuosity was still

dominant in Bhima.Such a man was not quite a fit agent for the

practice of Yoga.He would neither enquire into yoga nor translate it

into action.On the other side,a person of Yudhishtras calibre was

already fairly well established in yoga.He could well have been

called a yogi.Any further enlightenment carried to him would have

been a superfluity.But Arjunas attainments stood somewhere

> between these two extremes.He had definitely outgrown animal

propensities.At the same time he had not yet entered the domain that

was divine.Only the ordinary human elements were predominant in

him.In a normal man both virtue and vice are found intermingled in

varying degrees.To eschew the lingering vice and to get well drilled

in the growing virtue is the purpose of life.Arjuna represnted the

normal man.To a person of his type the message of Gita was bound to

prove most fruitful.Any person with normal human traits is competent

both to study and to put into practice ,the teachings of Gita.

> So to inculcate the understanding of His teachings of the various

aspects of life leading ultimately to Bliss the Lord preferred Arjuna

as His tool to impart His great teachings in the form of Gita.

>

> Salutations to that Muralikrishna.the Indweller of all.

>

> agraman

>

>

>

> India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.

>

>