Guest guest Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Respected Madam, For gowth in any area whether it is spiritual, physical, or material the requirement is to be 'teachable'. Excellence is the result of being 'teachable'. Leadership is an urge to be of some value in a positive way. If someone tries to show it off it will not work. So don't worry about it. Just go ahead and excell and take leadership in whatever you are doing. When it come to spirituality you accept that you no nothing and seek guidance and show willingness to listen and learn. That way you become teachable. Once you are so, so you are humble too. That is humility. Even Valmiki before his enlightened state was a highway robber and excelled in it. But he was humble enough to learn fron Narada. Hope this has made some sense. Aum Namo Narayanaya Balagopal --- Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote: Dear Bhaktas, All of us here on earth have a duty to perform. Some of these require leadership qualities to excel in that field. The desire to excel may be so that we do the job alloted to us in the best possible way. Does this requirement of being confident of what we know and lead others in the same come in the way of us being humble, which is essential for any spiritual aspirant. Please can someone guide me on this. Om Namo narayanaya. Sunita Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Om Namo Narayanaya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2005 Report Share Posted May 18, 2005 Dear Sunita, Humble has nothing to do with showing one's ability in a given field.It is a quality only that can be made use of depending upon the circumstances.As you hv stated that we hv a duty to perform.When we are confident of showing our skills there is absolutely no harm even if we are not humble.The word does not connote servitude.In that case all the people who are holding top positions would not be there.Only thing is one shuld not be arrogant or jealous.Expressing one's capability has nothing to do with humbleness.A CEO or some person occupying such high posts in whatever fields shuld be dynamic,capable of delivering what he/she can according to his/her mite,giving useful suggestions,has the temerity to say what went wrong in such and such matter all will lead to leadership qualities.To be humble has no role to block such things.All the great people owe their greatness for their knowledge and capacity to lead and not for their humbleness.In that case the Chief Executive shuld assert himself/herself to get things done and expecting to be humble will make him/her only a laughing stock. This world appreciates the leadership qualities of the persons and not for their humbleness.A leader is one who himself/herself being confident must be able to guide and goad others also to push up then only there will be all round success.Hence if you are confident of yr leadrship qualities there is nothing wrong to be dynamic and there is no necessity to be humble which will lead you nowhere.Only thing humbleness shuld not lead to arrogancy or given oneself an inflated ego.While being a strict person there shuld at the same time be capable to make people understand that there is some type of benign attitude also in the person will bring great results .The qualities of a leader is to take persons to get along with him/her and shuld be a guiding force for others to imitate.So the word humble has no relevance so long as you can show yr capacity and as long as arrogancy and ego dont raise their heads. In spiritualism also the same principles apply.You can be humble when you hv no knowledge of a subject and to gain gud lessons it is ok.When you know the subject better there is no necessity for you to be humble and can express what you feel without fear or favour.As I said the main points that will be stumbling blocks are arrogancy and assertion of ego.When they raise their heads the fall is sure. So there is nothing wrong to prove yr merit in any sphere mundane and spirtitual so long as you are a confident person and has the abilty to lead you can show yr mettle.There is no law debarring that.So leaving aside such silly things if you want to come up gear yrself up forgetting things like humbleness and proceed in yr chosen path with confidence or else you will be overtaken by others which is not the idea behind the word humble.This is only my view.If you are satisfied then the choice is yours,Best wishes. Hare Krishna, agramanSunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote: Dear Bhaktas, All of us here on earth have a duty to perform. Someof these require leadership qualities to excel in thatfield. The desire to excel may be so that we do thejob alloted to us in the best possible way. Does thisrequirement of being confident of what we know andlead others in the same come in the way of us beinghumble, which is essential for any spiritual aspirant.Please can someone guide me on this. Om Namo narayanaya.Sunita Om Namo Narayanaya: India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2005 Report Share Posted May 19, 2005 Dear Madam I've often wondered on this myself and let me share my realization with you. As a few of the responses have already suggested, the very term of humility suggests a learning attitude. The episode in Ramayana has always inspired me when Rama asks Lakshmana to learn from a dying Ravana, now that his deed had been punished. The scene describes Lakshmana who is standing at the head of Ravana, when Rama urges a bristling Lakshmana to stand at the feet of Ravana, if at all he wants to learn. My experience has taugt me that no matter who you are and whatever position you reach in life, and as you rightly pointed out that it is a factor of Karma, if one can continue to learn, no matter from who or where it might be without pretension to position and power, humility is manifested without compromise to ideals of living Dharmically. I practice this and continue to improve upon my living being and therefore wanted to share the experience as an answer to your question. Om Namo Narayanaya Subbu Iyer. Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote: Dear Bhaktas, All of us here on earth have a duty to perform. Someof these require leadership qualities to excel in thatfield. The desire to excel may be so that we do thejob alloted to us in the best possible way. Does thisrequirement of being confident of what we know andlead others in the same come in the way of us beinghumble, which is essential for any spiritual aspirant.Please can someone guide me on this. Om Namo narayanaya.Sunita Om Namo Narayanaya: Best regards,Subbu Iyer Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2005 Report Share Posted May 19, 2005 Dear Sunita, I think Subbu's perspective is a very nice one, something that I try to follow too. I think no matter how brilliant an individual, it has to be tempered by humility. We are always surrounded by people who are at different levels in their capacities, intellectual or otherwise, their intelligence, humaneness etc. And we ourselves can learn something or the other from most situations and people in our lives. In the Geeta, God does talk of humility as a divine attribute - if you see Geeta slokas 16.1,16.2, 16.3, 16.4, God talks abt divine qualities: gentleness,modesty, kindness, patience, non-haughtiness are all divine attributes. But hypocrisy, arrogance, excessive vanity are all demoniac attributes. Finally, when we talk about evolving in spirituality, what we are actually aiming for is a stage where we know and recognize each soul as divine and when we reach that stage, there will be only love and compassion for all. Om Namo Narayanaya. ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````\ ``````````````````````````````````````````````````` ------------------- --- Subbu Iyer <iyers_96027 wrote: > Dear Madam > > I've often wondered on this myself and let me share my realization with you. As a few > of the responses have already suggested, the very term of humility suggests a learning > attitude. The episode in Ramayana has always inspired me when Rama asks Lakshmana to > learn from a dying Ravana, now that his deed had been punished. The scene describes > Lakshmana who is standing at the head of Ravana, when Rama urges a bristling Lakshmana > to stand at the feet of Ravana, if at all he wants to learn. My experience has taugt me > that no matter who you are and whatever position you reach in life, and as you rightly > pointed out that it is a factor of Karma, if one can continue to learn, no matter from > who or where it might be without pretension to position and power, humility is > manifested without compromise to ideals of living Dharmically. I practice this and > continue to improve upon my living being and therefore wanted to share the experience > as an answer to your question. > > Om Namo Narayanaya > Subbu Iyer. > > Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote: > Dear Bhaktas, > All of us here on earth have a duty to perform. Some > of these require leadership qualities to excel in that > field. The desire to excel may be so that we do the > job alloted to us in the best possible way. Does this > requirement of being confident of what we know and > lead others in the same come in the way of us being > humble, which is essential for any spiritual aspirant. > Please can someone guide me on this. > > Om Namo narayanaya. > > Sunita > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya: > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2005 Report Share Posted May 19, 2005 Thanks Veena for your e mail. On reading your e mail, I have another question that bothers me. When we see people who are materialistic or just showing off Bhakti, for a short duration there is a hatred created in my mind. What can we do to evolve to a stage when we see can see divinity in them? Sunita --- Veena Nair <vee_1807 wrote: > Dear Sunita, > I think Subbu's perspective is a very nice one, > something that I try to follow too. I > think no matter how brilliant an individual, it has > to be tempered by humility. We are > always surrounded by people who are at different > levels in their capacities, intellectual > or otherwise, their intelligence, humaneness etc. > And we ourselves can learn something or > the other from most situations and people in our > lives. > In the Geeta, God does talk of humility as a divine > attribute - if you see Geeta slokas > 16.1,16.2, 16.3, 16.4, God talks abt divine > qualities: gentleness,modesty, kindness, > patience, non-haughtiness are all divine attributes. > But hypocrisy, arrogance, excessive > vanity are all demoniac attributes. > Finally, when we talk about evolving in > spirituality, what we are actually aiming for is > a stage where we know and recognize each soul as > divine and when we reach that stage, > there will be only love and compassion for all. > Om Namo Narayanaya. > > > ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````\ ``````````````````````````````````````````````````` > > > ------------------- > --- Subbu Iyer <iyers_96027 wrote: > > Dear Madam > > > > I've often wondered on this myself and let me > share my realization with you. As a few > > of the responses have already suggested, the very > term of humility suggests a learning > > attitude. The episode in Ramayana has always > inspired me when Rama asks Lakshmana to > > learn from a dying Ravana, now that his deed had > been punished. The scene describes > > Lakshmana who is standing at the head of Ravana, > when Rama urges a bristling Lakshmana > > to stand at the feet of Ravana, if at all he wants > to learn. My experience has taugt me > > that no matter who you are and whatever position > you reach in life, and as you rightly > > pointed out that it is a factor of Karma, if one > can continue to learn, no matter from > > who or where it might be without pretension to > position and power, humility is > > manifested without compromise to ideals of living > Dharmically. I practice this and > > continue to improve upon my living being and > therefore wanted to share the experience > > as an answer to your question. > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya > > Subbu Iyer. > > > > Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote: > > Dear Bhaktas, > > All of us here on earth have a duty to perform. > Some > > of these require leadership qualities to excel in > that > > field. The desire to excel may be so that we do > the > > job alloted to us in the best possible way. Does > this > > requirement of being confident of what we know and > > lead others in the same come in the way of us > being > > humble, which is essential for any spiritual > aspirant. > > Please can someone guide me on this. > > > > Om Namo narayanaya. > > > > Sunita > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya: > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 !! Sri Rama Jayam !! Hello Sunita, The question you have raised is a very common type spiritual concern found in most of the devotees, that at a particular stage we always try to compare our devotion with that of others (...which can be in the form of respect, overestimation, underestimation, discardness or even hatred at sometimes...). To be frank, it's not always bad, ...... but on the other hand to have a control on such thoughts is also IMP for avoiding any declination in our spiritual path. "Devotion" is strictly a very personal relationship b/w Lord & his devotee. As per my thinking, God never compare the performances of his devotees. Everybody cannot be Hanuman, Gopikas, Pandavas, Prahlada, Dhruva or Bali ..... So, it's Lord himself who takes special care of such devotees who cannot perform well. The only thing he demands is "Mamekam Sharanam Vraja"....That is "Surrender fully unto me..." If this feeling be developed in our heart, then never mind one be a yogi or a bhogi, he is dear to Lord for ever. Sunita, it is very natural that one can get perturbed seeing the "Show off" type of approach in Bhakthi, let it be by anybody. What I will suggest you is the best you can do is to pray to Lord for his/her spiritual inclination & protect from downfall. That is well within your authority. But try hard to avoid questioning or pointing towards that person. Becoz that can really lead to a big mistake unknowingly. In case, the same person is willing to have your opinion, you shud never be late to suggest the best for him/her. An eg. for everybody from Ramayanam. Seeing that Sri Bharath is nearing Chithrakut accompanied by his army, Sri Laxmana is driven by anger & hatred against Bharatha. To Sita & Rama's enquiry, Laxmana replies - "That Bharath has come down to the level that he will not allow us to live peacefully in this forest also....I will kill him now." Rama pacified Laxman saying that - "You have misunderstood that noblest soul"....."Believe in me, if I offer the entire vaibhavam of Brahmalokam, Vishnulokam & Shivalokam together also, Bharath will always prefer to opt for my Lotus feet." The point to note here is that, Laxmana swamy is an ardent servant of Lord, but he too has taken the external form of Bharath in a very wrong way. At that point also, Lord himself is the sole basis where the devotion of Laxmana & Bharatha is retained uniformly. He has not compared them, but have only protected their individual devotion towards Lord's feet. Hope that, I am able to clarify ur doubt to some extent. Thanks. Hare Krishna Hare Rama guruvayur [guruvayur ]On Behalf Of Sunita ramanthanThursday, May 19, 2005 7:13 PMguruvayur Subject: Re: [Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] being HumbleThanks Veena for your e mail. On reading your e mail,I have another question that bothers me. When we seepeople who are materialistic or just showing offBhakti, for a short duration there is a hatred createdin my mind. What can we do to evolve to a stage whenwe see can see divinity in them?Sunita--- Veena Nair <vee_1807 wrote:> Dear Sunita, > I think Subbu's perspective is a very nice one,> something that I try to follow too. I> think no matter how brilliant an individual, it has> to be tempered by humility. We are> always surrounded by people who are at different> levels in their capacities, intellectual> or otherwise, their intelligence, humaneness etc.> And we ourselves can learn something or> the other from most situations and people in our> lives.> In the Geeta, God does talk of humility as a divine> attribute - if you see Geeta slokas> 16.1,16.2, 16.3, 16.4, God talks abt divine> qualities: gentleness,modesty, kindness,> patience, non-haughtiness are all divine attributes.> But hypocrisy, arrogance, excessive> vanity are all demoniac attributes. > Finally, when we talk about evolving in> spirituality, what we are actually aiming for is> a stage where we know and recognize each soul as> divine and when we reach that stage,> there will be only love and compassion for all. > Om Namo Narayanaya. > > >```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````> > > -------------------> --- Subbu Iyer <iyers_96027 wrote:> > Dear Madam> > > > I've often wondered on this myself and let me> share my realization with you. As a few> > of the responses have already suggested, the very> term of humility suggests a learning> > attitude. The episode in Ramayana has always> inspired me when Rama asks Lakshmana to> > learn from a dying Ravana, now that his deed had> been punished. The scene describes> > Lakshmana who is standing at the head of Ravana,> when Rama urges a bristling Lakshmana> > to stand at the feet of Ravana, if at all he wants> to learn. My experience has taugt me> > that no matter who you are and whatever position> you reach in life, and as you rightly> > pointed out that it is a factor of Karma, if one> can continue to learn, no matter from> > who or where it might be without pretension to> position and power, humility is> > manifested without compromise to ideals of living> Dharmically. I practice this and> > continue to improve upon my living being and> therefore wanted to share the experience> > as an answer to your question. > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya> > Subbu Iyer. > > > > Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote:> > Dear Bhaktas, > > All of us here on earth have a duty to perform.> Some> > of these require leadership qualities to excel in> that> > field. The desire to excel may be so that we do> the> > job alloted to us in the best possible way. Does> this> > requirement of being confident of what we know and> > lead others in the same come in the way of us> being> > humble, which is essential for any spiritual> aspirant.> > Please can someone guide me on this. > > > > Om Namo narayanaya.> > > > Sunita> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya: > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 !! Hari Aum !! The 'NEED' heirarchy of Abraham Maslow, indicates the process of evolution. It is a Fact that to gain self realisation one has to pass thru the materialistic manifestations and the desire and urges and pulls and hatred it creates. As regards to 'faking' it is a technique most successful people create to reach their GOALS. Everything in this world is created TWICE-first in the mind and then its physical manifestation. At the time it is taking seed in the mind quite often it appears as 'faking' So the 'bhakthi' is 'fake' but it will soon become reality to those who pursue it. Our other members will be able to give more clarity to your querry. Narayana Narayana Narayana Regards Balagopal --- Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote: Thanks Veena for your e mail. On reading your e mail, I have another question that bothers me. When we see people who are materialistic or just showing off Bhakti, for a short duration there is a hatred created in my mind. What can we do to evolve to a stage when we see can see divinity in them? Sunita --- Veena Nair <vee_1807 wrote: > Dear Sunita, > I think Subbu's perspective is a very nice one, > something that I try to follow too. I > think no matter how brilliant an individual, it has > to be tempered by humility. We are > always surrounded by people who are at different > levels in their capacities, intellectual > or otherwise, their intelligence, humaneness etc. > And we ourselves can learn something or > the other from most situations and people in our > lives. > In the Geeta, God does talk of humility as a divine > attribute - if you see Geeta slokas > 16.1,16.2, 16.3, 16.4, God talks abt divine > qualities: gentleness,modesty, kindness, > patience, non-haughtiness are all divine attributes. > But hypocrisy, arrogance, excessive > vanity are all demoniac attributes. > Finally, when we talk about evolving in > spirituality, what we are actually aiming for is > a stage where we know and recognize each soul as > divine and when we reach that stage, > there will be only love and compassion for all. > Om Namo Narayanaya. > > > ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````\ ``````````````````````````````````````````````````` > > > ------------------- > --- Subbu Iyer <iyers_96027 wrote: > > Dear Madam > > > > I've often wondered on this myself and let me > share my realization with you. As a few > > of the responses have already suggested, the very > term of humility suggests a learning > > attitude. The episode in Ramayana has always > inspired me when Rama asks Lakshmana to > > learn from a dying Ravana, now that his deed had > been punished. The scene describes > > Lakshmana who is standing at the head of Ravana, > when Rama urges a bristling Lakshmana > > to stand at the feet of Ravana, if at all he wants > to learn. My experience has taugt me > > that no matter who you are and whatever position > you reach in life, and as you rightly > > pointed out that it is a factor of Karma, if one > can continue to learn, no matter from > > who or where it might be without pretension to > position and power, humility is > > manifested without compromise to ideals of living > Dharmically. I practice this and > > continue to improve upon my living being and > therefore wanted to share the experience > > as an answer to your question. > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya > > Subbu Iyer. > > > > Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote: > > Dear Bhaktas, > > All of us here on earth have a duty to perform. > Some > > of these require leadership qualities to excel in > that > > field. The desire to excel may be so that we do > the > > job alloted to us in the best possible way. Does > this > > requirement of being confident of what we know and > > lead others in the same come in the way of us > being > > humble, which is essential for any spiritual > aspirant. > > Please can someone guide me on this. > > > > Om Namo narayanaya. > > > > Sunita > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya: > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Om Namo Narayanaya. Thanks Vinod for explaining so simply and neatly the aspect of devotion being a special bond between God and bhakta. I have not come across a bhakta who seems to 'show off'; a person usually gets carried away by his or her over-enthusiasm or passion that makes others think and wonder what he is up to. But just as Vinod said, it is best to leave that to God; I would say a prayer for the person and myself too because on the path of devotion, success in all fields is bound to come and we have to be careful to keep our own feet firmly on the ground. Also, I have to tell you about these slokas from the Geeta-9.30 "api-chet-su-duraacharo, bhajate-maam ananya bhaak saadhurev-sa mantavya, samyag vyavasito hi-sa" --- A person who does the most disagreeable or unpleasant actions, but worships me exclusively & steadily with devotion, must also be considered righteous, because his resolution is correct (because he understands that worshipping God and reaching Him should be the goal in life) and "Kshipram bhavati dharmaatma shaashwac-chaantim niggachati Kaunteya pratijaanihi naa me bhaktah pranashyati" (9.31) ...............he will soon become righteous or correct in his behavior & will achieve eternal peace. Know for certain Arjuna that My devotee never perishes!" Before I came across these slokas I used to wonder at people I knew who regularly went to temple, did poojas, etc. but misbehaved in their personal lives, had bad tempers etc. After I read these slokas, I decided that it is a marvel that inspite of their tempers and misbehaviors, they still have sense enough to worship God and devote time to God, so then there must be something nice about them. I hope Sunita, this helps. God bless. Om Namo Narayanaya."PS, Vinod K (GE Energy)" <vinod.ps wrote: !! Sri Rama Jayam !! Hello Sunita, The question you have raised is a very common type spiritual concern found in most of the devotees, that at a particular stage we always try to compare our devotion with that of others (...which can be in the form of respect, overestimation, underestimation, discardness or even hatred at sometimes...). To be frank, it's not always bad, ...... but on the other hand to have a control on such thoughts is also IMP for avoiding any declination in our spiritual path. "Devotion" is strictly a very personal relationship b/w Lord & his devotee. As per my thinking, God never compare the performances of his devotees. Everybody cannot be Hanuman, Gopikas, Pandavas, Prahlada, Dhruva or Bali ..... So, it's Lord himself who takes special care of such devotees who cannot perform well. The only thing he demands is "Mamekam Sharanam Vraja"....That is "Surrender fully unto me..." If this feeling be developed in our heart, then never mind one be a yogi or a bhogi, he is dear to Lord for ever. Sunita, it is very natural that one can get perturbed seeing the "Show off" type of approach in Bhakthi, let it be by anybody. What I will suggest you is the best you can do is to pray to Lord for his/her spiritual inclination & protect from downfall. That is well within your authority. But try hard to avoid questioning or pointing towards that person. Becoz that can really lead to a big mistake unknowingly. In case, the same person is willing to have your opinion, you shud never be late to suggest the best for him/her. An eg. for everybody from Ramayanam. Seeing that Sri Bharath is nearing Chithrakut accompanied by his army, Sri Laxmana is driven by anger & hatred against Bharatha. To Sita & Rama's enquiry, Laxmana replies - "That Bharath has come down to the level that he will not allow us to live peacefully in this forest also....I will kill him now." Rama pacified Laxman saying that - "You have misunderstood that noblest soul"....."Believe in me, if I offer the entire vaibhavam of Brahmalokam, Vishnulokam & Shivalokam together also, Bharath will always prefer to opt for my Lotus feet." The point to note here is that, Laxmana swamy is an ardent servant of Lord, but he too has taken the external form of Bharath in a very wrong way. At that point also, Lord himself is the sole basis where the devotion of Laxmana & Bharatha is retained uniformly. He has not compared them, but have only protected their individual devotion towards Lord's feet. Hope that, I am able to clarify ur doubt to some extent. Thanks. Hare Krishna Hare Rama guruvayur [guruvayur ]On Behalf Of Sunita ramanthanThursday, May 19, 2005 7:13 PMguruvayur Subject: Re: [Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] being HumbleThanks Veena for your e mail. On reading your e mail,I have another question that bothers me. When we seepeople who are materialistic or just showing offBhakti, for a short duration there is a hatred createdin my mind. What can we do to evolve to a stage whenwe see can see divinity in them?Sunita--- Veena Nair <vee_1807 wrote:> Dear Sunita, > I think Subbu's perspective is a very nice one,> something that I try to follow too. I> think no matter how brilliant an individual, it has> to be tempered by humility. We are> always surrounded by people who are at different> levels in their capacities, intellectual> or otherwise, their intelligence, humaneness etc.> And we ourselves can learn something or> the other from most situations and people in our> lives.> In the Geeta, God does talk of humility as a divine> attribute - if you see Geeta slokas> 16.1,16.2, 16.3, 16.4, God talks abt divine> qualities: gentleness,modesty, kindness,> patience, non-haughtiness are all divine attributes.> But hypocrisy, arrogance, excessive> vanity are all demoniac attributes. > Finally, when we talk about evolving in> spirituality, what we are actually aiming for is> a stage where we know and recognize each soul as> divine and when we reach that stage,> there will be only love and compassion for all. > Om Namo Narayanaya. > > >```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````> > > -------------------> --- Subbu Iyer <iyers_96027 wrote:> > Dear Madam> > > > I've often wondered on this myself and let me> share my realization with you. As a few> > of the responses have already suggested, the very> term of humility suggests a learning> > attitude. The episode in Ramayana has always> inspired me when Rama asks Lakshmana to> > learn from a dying Ravana, now that his deed had> been punished. The scene describes> > Lakshmana who is standing at the head of Ravana,> when Rama urges a bristling Lakshmana> > to stand at the feet of Ravana, if at all he wants> to learn. My experience has taugt me> > that no matter who you are and whatever position> you reach in life, and as you rightly> > pointed out that it is a factor of Karma, if one> can continue to learn, no matter from> > who or where it might be without pretension to> position and power, humility is> > manifested without compromise to ideals of living> Dharmically. I practice this and> > continue to improve upon my living being and> therefore wanted to share the experience> > as an answer to your question. > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya> > Subbu Iyer. > > > > Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote:> > Dear Bhaktas, > > All of us here on earth have a duty to perform.> Some> > of these require leadership qualities to excel in> that> > field. The desire to excel may be so that we do> the> > job alloted to us in the best possible way. Does> this> > requirement of being confident of what we know and> > lead others in the same come in the way of us> being> > humble, which is essential for any spiritual> aspirant.> > Please can someone guide me on this. > > > > Om Namo narayanaya.> > > > Sunita> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya: > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Both of you have suggested such a wonderful way of looking at people. This way it is so easy to forgive and forget others faults. May GOD bless u.Veena Nair <vee_1807 wrote: Om Namo Narayanaya. Thanks Vinod for explaining so simply and neatly the aspect of devotion being a special bond between God and bhakta. I have not come across a bhakta who seems to 'show off'; a person usually gets carried away by his or her over-enthusiasm or passion that makes others think and wonder what he is up to. But just as Vinod said, it is best to leave that to God; I would say a prayer for the person and myself too because on the path of devotion, success in all fields is bound to come and we have to be careful to keep our own feet firmly on the ground. Also, I have to tell you about these slokas from the Geeta-9.30 "api-chet-su-duraacharo, bhajate-maam ananya bhaak saadhurev-sa mantavya, samyag vyavasito hi-sa" --- A person who does the most disagreeable or unpleasant actions, but worships me exclusively & steadily with devotion, must also be considered righteous, because his resolution is correct (because he understands that worshipping God and reaching Him should be the goal in life) and "Kshipram bhavati dharmaatma shaashwac-chaantim niggachati Kaunteya pratijaanihi naa me bhaktah pranashyati" (9.31) ...............he will soon become righteous or correct in his behavior & will achieve eternal peace. Know for certain Arjuna that My devotee never perishes!" Before I came across these slokas I used to wonder at people I knew who regularly went to temple, did poojas, etc. but misbehaved in their personal lives, had bad tempers etc. After I read these slokas, I decided that it is a marvel that inspite of their tempers and misbehaviors, they still have sense enough to worship God and devote time to God, so then there must be something nice about them. I hope Sunita, this helps. God bless. Om Namo Narayanaya."PS, Vinod K (GE Energy)" <vinod.ps wrote: !! Sri Rama Jayam !! Hello Sunita, The question you have raised is a very common type spiritual concern found in most of the devotees, that at a particular stage we always try to compare our devotion with that of others (...which can be in the form of respect, overestimation, underestimation, discardness or even hatred at sometimes...). To be frank, it's not always bad, ...... but on the other hand to have a control on such thoughts is also IMP for avoiding any declination in our spiritual path. "Devotion" is strictly a very personal relationship b/w Lord & his devotee. As per my thinking, God never compare the performances of his devotees. Everybody cannot be Hanuman, Gopikas, Pandavas, Prahlada, Dhruva or Bali ..... So, it's Lord himself who takes special care of such devotees who cannot perform well. The only thing he demands is "Mamekam Sharanam Vraja"....That is "Surrender fully unto me..." If this feeling be developed in our heart, then never mind one be a yogi or a bhogi, he is dear to Lord for ever. Sunita, it is very natural that one can get perturbed seeing the "Show off" type of approach in Bhakthi, let it be by anybody. What I will suggest you is the best you can do is to pray to Lord for his/her spiritual inclination & protect from downfall. That is well within your authority. But try hard to avoid questioning or pointing towards that person. Becoz that can really lead to a big mistake unknowingly. In case, the same person is willing to have your opinion, you shud never be late to suggest the best for him/her. An eg. for everybody from Ramayanam. Seeing that Sri Bharath is nearing Chithrakut accompanied by his army, Sri Laxmana is driven by anger & hatred against Bharatha. To Sita & Rama's enquiry, Laxmana replies - "That Bharath has come down to the level that he will not allow us to live peacefully in this forest also....I will kill him now." Rama pacified Laxman saying that - "You have misunderstood that noblest soul"....."Believe in me, if I offer the entire vaibhavam of Brahmalokam, Vishnulokam & Shivalokam together also, Bharath will always prefer to opt for my Lotus feet." The point to note here is that, Laxmana swamy is an ardent servant of Lord, but he too has taken the external form of Bharath in a very wrong way. At that point also, Lord himself is the sole basis where the devotion of Laxmana & Bharatha is retained uniformly. He has not compared them, but have only protected their individual devotion towards Lord's feet. Hope that, I am able to clarify ur doubt to some extent. Thanks. Hare Krishna Hare Rama guruvayur [guruvayur ]On Behalf Of Sunita ramanthanThursday, May 19, 2005 7:13 PMguruvayur Subject: Re: [Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] being HumbleThanks Veena for your e mail. On reading your e mail,I have another question that bothers me. When we seepeople who are materialistic or just showing offBhakti, for a short duration there is a hatred createdin my mind. What can we do to evolve to a stage whenwe see can see divinity in them?Sunita--- Veena Nair <vee_1807 wrote:> Dear Sunita, > I think Subbu's perspective is a very nice one,> something that I try to follow too. I> think no matter how brilliant an individual, it has> to be tempered by humility. We are> always surrounded by people who are at different> levels in their capacities, intellectual> or otherwise, their intelligence, humaneness etc.> And we ourselves can learn something or> the other from most situations and people in our> lives.> In the Geeta, God does talk of humility as a divine> attribute - if you see Geeta slokas> 16.1,16.2, 16.3, 16.4, God talks abt divine> qualities: gentleness,modesty, kindness,> patience, non-haughtiness are all divine attributes.> But hypocrisy, arrogance, excessive> vanity are all demoniac attributes. > Finally, when we talk about evolving in> spirituality, what we are actually aiming for is> a stage where we know and recognize each soul as> divine and when we reach that stage,> there will be only love and compassion for all. > Om Namo Narayanaya. > > >```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````> > > -------------------> --- Subbu Iyer <iyers_96027 wrote:> > Dear Madam> > > > I've often wondered on this myself and let me> share my realization with you. As a few> > of the responses have already suggested, the very> term of humility suggests a learning> > attitude. The episode in Ramayana has always> inspired me when Rama asks Lakshmana to> > learn from a dying Ravana, now that his deed had> been punished. The scene describes> > Lakshmana who is standing at the head of Ravana,> when Rama urges a bristling Lakshmana> > to stand at the feet of Ravana, if at all he wants> to learn. My experience has taugt me> > that no matter who you are and whatever position> you reach in life, and as you rightly> > pointed out that it is a factor of Karma, if one> can continue to learn, no matter from> > who or where it might be without pretension to> position and power, humility is> > manifested without compromise to ideals of living> Dharmically. I practice this and> > continue to improve upon my living being and> therefore wanted to share the experience> > as an answer to your question. > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya> > Subbu Iyer. > > > > Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote:> > Dear Bhaktas, > > All of us here on earth have a duty to perform.> Some> > of these require leadership qualities to excel in> that> > field. The desire to excel may be so that we do> the> > job alloted to us in the best possible way. Does> this> > requirement of being confident of what we know and> > lead others in the same come in the way of us> being> > humble, which is essential for any spiritual> aspirant.> > Please can someone guide me on this. > > > > Om Namo narayanaya.> > > > Sunita> > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya: > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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