[Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Hindu Dharma:Vedas [continued]

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Pranamams Madam. this is a very erudite piece of education. Thanks so much.Sunita ramanthan <rsunitaa wrote:

It is not possible to tell the age of the Vedas. If wesay that an object is "anadi" it means that nothingexisted before it. Any book, it is reasonable topresume, must be the work of one or more people. TheOld Testament contains the sayings of severalProphets. The New Testament contains the story ofJesus Christ as well as his sermons. The Qu'ranincorporates the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed.The founders of such religions are historicalpersonalities and their teachings did not exist beforethen. Are the Vedas similarly the work of one or moreteachers? And may we take it that these preceptorslived in different periods of history? Ten thousandyears ago or a hundred thousand or a million yearsago? If the Vedas were created during any of theseperiods they can not be claimed to be "anadi". Even ifthey were created a

million years ago, it obviouslymeans that there was a time when they did not exist.Questions like the above are justified if the Vedasare regarded as the work of mortals. And, if they are,it is wrong to claim that they are "anadi". We thinkthat the Vedas are the creation of the rsis, seers whowere mortals. So it is said, at any rate, in the textbook of history we are taught.Also consider the fact that the Vedas consists of many"Suktas". Jnanasambandhar's Tevaram consists of numberof patigams. And just as each patigam has ten stanzas,each sukta consists of a number of mantras."Su+ukta"="sukta". The prefix "su" denotes "good" asin "suguna" or "sulocana". "Ukta" means "spoken" or"what is spoken". " Sukta" means "well spoken", a"goodword" or a "good utterence" (or well uttered).When we chant the Vedas in the manner prescribed bythe Sastras, we mention the name of the seer connectedwith each sukta, its

metre and the deity invoked.Since there are many mantras associated with variousseers we think that they were composed by them. Wealso refer to the ancestry of the seer concerned, hisgotra, etc. For instance, "Agastyo Maithravarunih",that is Agastya, son of Maithravaruna. Here is another: "Madhucchanda Vaisvamitrah", the sage Madhucchandadescended from the Visvamitra gotra. Like this thereare mantras in the names of many sages. If the mantrasconnected with the name of Agastya were composed byhim it could not have existed during the time ofMitravaruna; similarly that in the name ofMadhucchandana could not have existed during the timeof Visvamitra. If this is true, how can you claim thatthe Vedas are "anadi"?Since the Mantras are associated with the names ofsages, we make the wrong inference that they may havebeen composed by them. But it is not so as a matter offact. "Apaurseya" means not the work of any man.

Werethe Vedas composed by one or more human beings, evenif they were rsis, they would be called "pauruseya".But since they are called "Apauruseya" it follows thateven the seers could not have created them. If theywere composed by the seers they (the latter) would becalled "Mantra-kartas" which means "those who'created' the Mantras". But as a matter of fact, thersis are called "Mantra-drastas", those who "saw "them.When we say that Columbus discovered America, we donot mean that he created the continent : we mean thathe merely made the continent known to the world. Inthe same way the laws attributed to Newton, Einsteinand so on were not created by them. If an objectthrown up falls to earth it is not because Newton saidso. Scientists like Newton perceived the laws ofNature and revealed them to the world. Similarly, theseers discovered the Mantras and made a gift of themto the world. These Mantras had

existed before thetime of their fathers, grand fathers, great grandfathers,. . . . . . . . . But they had remainedunknown to the world. The seers now made them known tothe mankind. So it became customory to mention theirnames at the time of intoning them.The publisher of a book is not necessarily its author.The man who releases a film need not be its producer.The seers disclosed the mantras to the world but theydid not create them. Though the mantras had existedbefore them they performed the noble service ofrevealing them to us. So it is appropriate on our partto pay them obeisance by mentioning their names whilechanting the same.Do we know anything about the existance of the mantrasbefore they were "seen" by the rsis? If they areeternal does it mean that they manifested themselvesat the time of creation? Were they present beforeman's appearance on earth? How did they come intobeing?If we

take it that the Vedas appeared with creation,it would mean that the Paramatman created them alongwith the world. Did he write them down and leave themsomewhere to be discovered by the seers later? If so,they cannot be claimed to be anadi. We have an idea ofwhen Brahma created the present world.There are fixed periods for the four yugas or eons,Krta, Treta, Dvapara and Kali. The four yugas togetherare called a caturuga. A thousand caturugas make oneday time of Brahma and another equally long period ishis night. According to this reckoning Bramha is nowmore than fifty years old. Any religious ceremony isto be commenced with a samkalpa("resolve") in which anaccount is given of the time and place of performancein such and such a year of Brahma, in such and such amonth, in such and such a fortnight (waxing or waningmoon), etc. From this account we know when the presentBrahma came into being. Even if we concede that

hemade his appearence millions and millions of yearsago, he can not be claimed to be anadi. How can thencreation be said to have no begining in time? Whencreation it self has an origin, how do we justify tothe claim that the Vedas are anadi?The Paramatman, being eternal, was present even beforecreation when there was no Brahma. The Paramatman, theBrahman are the Supreme Godhead, is eternal. Thecosmos, all sentient beings and insentient objects,emerge from him. The Paramatman did not create themhimself : he did so through the agency of Brahma.Through Visnu he sustains them and through Rudra hedestroys them. Later Brahma, Visnu, Rudra arethemselves destroyed by him. The present Brahma, whenhe became hundred years old, will unite with theParamatman. Another Brahma will appear and he willstart the work of creation all over again. Thequestion arises : Does the Paramatman create the Vedasbefore he brings into

being another Brahma?We learn from the Sastras that the Vedas has existedeven before creation. Infact, they say, Brahmaperformed his function of creation with the aid ofVedic mantras. I shall be speaking to you about thislater, how he accomplished the creation with themantras manifested as sound. In the passage dealingwith creation the Bagavatha also says that Brahmacreated the world with the Vedas.Is this the reason (that Brahma created the world withthe Vedic mantras) why it is said that the Vedas areanadi? Is it right to take such a view on the basisthat both the Vedas and Isvara are anadi? If wesuggest that isvara had made this scriptures evenbefore he created the world, it would mean that therewas a time when the Vedas did not exist and that wouldcontradict the claim that they are anadi.If we believe that both Isvara and the Vedas are anadiit would mean that Isvara could not have created

them.But if you believe that Isvara created them, theycannot be said to be without the origin. Everythinghas its origin in Isvara. It would be wrong tomaintain[according to this logic]that both Isvara andthe Vedas have no beginning in time. Well, it is allso confusing.What is the basis of the belief that the Vedas areanadi and were not created by Isvara? An answer iscontained in the Vedas themselves. In theBrhadaranyaka Upanishad(2. 4. 10) ---the Upanishadsare all part of the Vedas---it is said that the Rg,Yajus and Sama Vedas are the very breath of Isarva.The word "nihsvasitam"is used here.It goes without saying that we cannot live even amoment without breathing. The Vedas are thelife-breath of the Paramatman who is an eternal livingReality. It follows that the Vedas exist together withhim as his breath.We must note here that it is not customory to say thatthe Vedas are the creation of

Iswara. Do we create ourown breath? Our breath exists from the very moment weare born. It is the same case with Iswara and theVedas. We can not say that he created them.When Vidyaranyaswamin wrote his commentary on theVedas he prayed to his guru regarding him as Iswara.He used these words in his prayer : "Yasya nihsvasitamVedah" (whose --that is Isvara's -- breath constitutesthe Vedas). The word "nihsvasitam" occurs in theUpanishads also. Here too it is not stated that Iswaracreated the Vedas.The Lord says in the Gita : "It is I who am known byall the Vedas "(Vedaisca sarvair aham eva vedyah). "Instead of describing himself as "Vedakrd" (creator ofthe Vedas), he calls himself "Vedantakrd" (creator ofphilosophical system that is the crown of the Vedas).He also refers to himself as "Vedavid" (he who knowsthe Vedas). Before Vedanta that enshrines greatphilosophical truths had been made know to

mankind,the Vedas had existed in the form of sound, as thevery breath of Isvara -- they were ( and are) indeedIsvara dwelling in Isvara.The Bhagavata too, like the Gita, does not state thatthe Lord created the Vedas. It declares that theyoccured in a flash in his heart, that they came to himin a blaze of light. The word used on this context is"Sphuranam", occuring in the mind in a flash. Now wecan not apply this word to any thing that is created anew, any thing that did not exist before. Bramha isthe premordial sage who saw all the mantras. But itwas the Parmatman who revealed them to him. Did hetransmit them orally? No, says the Bhagavatha. Theparamatman imparted the Vedas to Bramha through hisheart : " Tene Bramha hrdaya Adikavaye" says the veryfirst verse of that Purana. The Vedas were not createdby the Parmatman. The truth is that they are alwayspresent in his heart. When he mearly resolved to passon

the Vedas to Bramha the latter instantly receivedthem. And with their sound he began the work ofcreation.The Tamil Tevaram describes Isvara as "VediyaVedagita". It says that the Lord keeps singing thehymns of various sakas or recensions of the Vedas. Howare we to understand the statement that the "Lord seesthe Vedas"? Breathing itself is music. Our out-breathis called "hamsa-gita". Thus, the Vedas are the musicof the Lord's breath. The Thevaran goes on : "Wearingthe sacred thread and the holy ashes, and bathing allthe time, Isvara keeps singing the Vedas". Theimpression one has from this description is that theLord is a great "ghanapathin". Apparsvamigal refers tothe ashes resembling milk applied to the body ofIsvara which is like coral. He says that the Lord"chants" the Vedas, " sings " them, not that hecreates ( or created ) them. In the Vaisnava DivyaPrabandham too there are many references to

Vedicsacrifices. But some how I donot remember anyreference in it to the Lord chanting the Vedas.In the story of Gajendramoksa told by the PuhazhendiPulavar ( a Tamil Vaishnava saint - poet), theelephant whose leg is caught in the jaws of thecrocodile cries in anguish. "Adimulame" [vocative inTamil of Adimula, the Primordial Lord]. The Lordthereupon appears, asking "What? " The poet says thatMahavisnu "stood before the Vedas" ("Vedattin mumninran"). According to the poet the lord stood infrontof the Vedas, not that he appeared at a time earlierthan the scriptures. The Tamil for "A man stood at thedoor" is "Vittin mun ninran". So "Vedattin mun ninran"should be understood as "he stood at the comencementof all the Vedas". Another idea occurs to me. How isPerumal (Visnu or any other Vaisnava deity ) taken inprocession? Preceeding the utsava-murthy (processional deity) are the devotees reciting

theTiruvaymozhi. And behind the processional deity is thegroup reciting the Vedas. Here too we may say that theLord stood before the Vedas ("Vedattin mun ninran").In the visnava Agamas and puranas, Mahavisnu isrefered to specially as "Yajnaswaroopin" ( onepersonifying the sacrifice) and as "Vedaswaroopin" (one who personifies the Vedas). Garuda is also called"Vedaswarupa". But non of these texts is known torefer to Visnu as the creator of the Vedas.It is only in the "Purusasukta", occuring in the Vedasthemselves, that the Vedas are said to have been"born(ajayatha)". However, this hymn is ofsymbolical and allegorical signifcance and not to beunderstood in a literal sense. It states that theParama-purusa (the Supreme Being) for sacrifice as ananimal and that it was in this sacrifice that creationitself was accomplished. It was at this time that theVedas also made their appearence. How are we

tounderstand the statement that the Parama-purusa wasoffered as a sacrificial animal? Not in a literalsense. In this sacrifice the season of spring wasoffered as an oblation (ahuthi) instead of ghee :summer served the purpose of samidhs (fire sticks);autum havis (oblation). Only those who meditate on themantras and become absorbed in them will know theremeaning inwardly as a matter of experience. So we cannot construe the statement literally that the Vedaswere "born".To the modern mind the claim that the breath of Isvarais manifested in the form of sound seems nonsensical,also that it was with this sound that Bramha performedhis function of creation. But on careful reflectionyou will realise that the belief is based on a greatscientific truth.I do not mean to say that we must accept the Vedasonly if they conform to present-day science. Nor do Ithink that our scripture, which proclaims the truth

ofthe Paramatman and is beyond the reach of science andscientist, ought to be brought within the ken ofscience. Many matters pertaining to the Vedas may notseems to be in conformity with science and for thatreason they are not to be treated as wrong. But ourpresent subject -- how the breath of the Parmatman canbecome sound and how the function of creation can becarried out withit -- is in keeping with science. Discover Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover./online.htmlOm Namo Narayanaya: Best regards,Subbu Iyer

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