[Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Bali Vadham - Symbolic meaning

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

I have read the symbolic meaning of Bali Vadham(ie removal of lust and greed without confronting it directly.)

 

I think everybody undoubtly agrees that Bali was not as bad as Ravana (otherwise the cause of Sri Rama avatar should have been killing Bali and not Ravana). So Ravana should be the concrete structure of lust and greed

 

Then why did Rama adopted a method of killing Ravana directly instead of adopting a hiding tactics??Or is there any other symbolic meaning for killing Ravana??

 

Please clear my doubts

Regards,

Anoop

 

alady sukumar <sukumarcanada wrote:

Hari Om!Very interesting thread indeed. In harinama keerthanamwe read "chemmE maRanjoru Saram koNTu konnathumorindraathmajanne hari naaraayanaaya namaH"In one of the lectures by the late H.H. SwamiChinmayananda he talked about the apparent'injustices' by Sri Rama. Swamiji said that the wholeRamayana is a metaphor for righteous living. I don'tremember everything in his talk, but I am writingwhatI understand from the Bali episode.In the context of the lessons in life, killing Balirepresents removal of lust and greed permanently fromthe disciple’s mind. In the absence of these two, Baliwas a great considering prowess and even devotion. Lust and greed can only be removed in a ratherroundabout way as they have a tendency to increasewhen confronted directly. They tend to increase as weget some (patthu

kiTTukil nooRu mathiyennumSathamaakil sahasram mathiyennum...). Sri Rama shows that the best way to remove them is byindirectly attacking them- like the special medicinegiven by a wife to her liquor addict husband withouthis knowledge to create a strong dislike towardsalcohol. Obviously, he will not agree to that if heknows about it. Sometimes we need help from othersources to improve ourselves.The only way to get out of strong lust & greed is toget a 'shock treatment' and I think symbolically thatis what has been portrayed in this episode of SriRama.I appreciate if someone in the group can explain thesymbolism of Ramayana as the 'travel of jeevaathmathrough the righteous and noble path of evolution'toreach the ultimate goal.Hari Om!Sukumar--- Sunil Menon <menon_sunil wrote:> I agree with Sunitha. As far I know Shri Ram was the> seventh

Avatar of> Vishnu in Threta Yuga and Shri Krishna took birth as> the ninth Avatar> in Dwapara Yuga. (Balarama is the eight Avatar.)> [Even mahabharat explains this fact by Bhima's> meeting of Hanuman, who became immortal with Ram's> blessings.]> > The Bali episode has a deep moral significance.> > Bali, tried to kill his own brother and later> married his brother's> wife. The immoral and vicious brother represents> Lust, the lower> nature of man. Sugreeva, the moral and virtuous> brother represents> man's higher and nobler nature.> > I have also heard the story where Bali earned a boon> by which half the> strength of his enemy was transferred to him as soon> as an enemy> confronted him in a battle. This has much similarity> to the power of> lust becomes invulnerable the moment man comes in> direct contact

with> the object of lust. To avoid this, and to overcome> successfully the> disastrous influence of the sense objects, man has> to stay away> physically from the objects before he gains an> absolute hold and> control over them. To indicate this great truth,> Shri Ram is> described as hiding behind a tree i.e. physically> keeping away from> Bali, and shooting him from a distance.> > > > guruvayur , Sunita ramanthan> <rsunitaa> wrote:> > But was not Ram avatar before Krishna avatar?> which> > would mean that Bali was later born as the Hunter,> who> > shot krishna on his toe. > > > > > > > > --- krishna shetty <essem2002> wrote:> > > > > Dear vinod,> > > > > > Even though i'm not a scholar

in this matter i> think> > > i just know the correct answer to it. For the> first> > > question it can be said as followes.:> > > > > > In Bali's previous birth he was the hunter who> shot> > > the arrow at krishna's lotus feet which caused> him> > > to leave the human body. So in return in his> next> > > birth i'e, as Bali he was killed by> krishna/Rama. > > > > > > For the second question,> > > > > > Since Bali in his previous birth had shot the> arrow> > > hiding in bushes, krishna too decides to kill> him> > > the same way bali did to him in his previous> birth. > > > > > > OM NAMO NARAYANYA>>>>> > > > > > ratheesh v <ratheeshvnair20>

wrote:> > > > > > Dear Vinod,> > > > > > > > > I too have the same doubt which Anoop> asked.I> > > am a devottee of Lord Rama and I would like to> know> > > why my Rama done so.Could you please reply to> his> > > questions...> > > > > > > > > Why Lord Rama had killed Bali, who was a> great> > > devotee of Vishu> > > Why he adopted the method of hide and attack,> > > when Bali was fighting with Sugreeva ...Was it a> > > violation of Dharma...?> > > > > > Ratheesh> > > Bangalore> > > > > > > > > "PS, Vinod K (GE Energy)" <vinod.ps@g...> wrote:> > > > !! Sri Rama

Jayam !!> > > > > > It was a pleasant morning in Bangalore today & > as> > > usual I was tuned to Asianet TV at 7am listening> to> > > "Ramayana" parayanam by Sri M G Radhakrishnan,> our> > > musical maestro. Today he started with "Bali> Vadham"> > > & that did attracted me a lot. "Bali Vadham" is> one> > > among the two top accusations (second being> "Sita> > > Tyagam") raised against Ramavataram & it has> been> > > widely talked/discussed over generations & ages.> The> > > subject of interest in these events of this> great> > > epic vests not in their happening as such,> instead> > > the connection of these events to a personality> > > known as MARYADA PURUSHOTTAMA RAMA generates the> > > whole attraction &

the associated relevance. If> > > these events were connected to any other> incarnation> > > other than Ramavataram, it may not have gained> that> > > attention, I assume, over the history of time & > > > civilization. > > > Because "RamO Vigrahavan Dharmah !" as it goes,> > > never allows any body (especially a Rama bhakta)> to> > > digest such events so easily. What to talk abt> > > ordinary beings, even great saints like Sri> > > Melpathur Bhattathiri did not hesitated to> raised> > > his sorrow in front of Guruvayurappan reminding> the> > > Lord abt "Sita Tyagam" in his Ramavataram. Those> > > feelings of a devotee are appreciable to a good> > > extent, though it indirectly diminishes the> radiance> > > of Lord's glory. This becomes a serious issue>

when> > > we elaborate such instances in front of somebody> who> > > is not a matured devotee or at the worst who is> an> > > athiest by nature. > > > Therefore, as a dedicated servant of the Lord it> > > becomes the responsibility of each devotee to> > > understand the exact implication & consequence> of> > > such vital events associated with Lord's nara> lila,> > > as Rama or as Krishna, in particular. > > > Civilization starts at home & parents are the> first> > > Guru(s). Therefore, in those houses where such> holy> > > discussions falls under a normal routine it> becomes> > > severely important for the parents to understand> to> > > real relevance of such accusations raised> against> > > our beloved Lord. Invest a good time in

finding> > > answers to such querries which shields our> complete> > > devotion to Lord, becoz acceptance cannot & shud> not> > > be incomplete. We shud not say "I like Krishna> when> > > he delivers Gita & I dislike when he robs> clothes of> > > the Gopikas." or "I like Rama when he marries> Sita & > > > I dislike when abandons her into the jungle."> etc.> > > etc.> > > If we have such attitude in our mind, remember> our> > > devotion unto Krishna/Rama is still incomplete.> We> > > have to travel a long way to reach him.> > > "Bali Vadham" is a very sensitive issue & so has> > > manifold dimensions. Understanding it may be> > > difficult, but not impossible. > > > I wish to have an open talk on it ( & not an> > >

argument) & let's see how it goes. > > > By Guruvayoorappan's ultimate grace, hopefully> we> === message truncated === __Start your day with - make it your home page http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

I agree with Anoop regarding the measure of Adharma

attached with Bali vs. that of Ravana. However,

remember the fact that Avatar's are meant to destroy

all Adharma and re-establish Dharma, it does not

matter what degree of Adharma anyone possess.

 

To explain this fact, take the case of Bhishacharya, even he got

the wrath of Krishna for being with Kauravas, the Adharmi's.

 

Anyway, thanks for the interesting discussion and I

hope more interesting topic like this would be nice.

 

Veena touched a good subject about Sita's abandonment

by Sri Rama. I like to hear what you all think about

such a sensitive subject.

 

Hare Rama! Hare Krishna!

 

Sunil.

 

 

 

--- vinod_ps77 <vinod.ps wrote:

 

> !! Sri Rama Jayam !!

>

> Dear Anoop,

>

> Let me address your querry. Killing of Bali or

> Ravana, infact, cannot

> be a direct measure of the degree of their ADHARMA.

> Otherwise, in the

> whole epic, nobody other than Manthara wud have been

> a perfect person

> to be slayed at first by Lord Rama himself. Even a

> thousand Ravana or

> Bali cannot match her prowess & intellect, for she

> was capable enough

> to make Lord depart from his beloved country over a

> drama of a single

> night. The real villain of this great epic is

> undoubtedly 'Manthara'.

> She is the personified form of 'Dwesha tattwa'

> (seeing one as many)

> residing in AYODHYA (unconquerred abode of Lord).

>

> Interesting is to note that Manthara was not

> defeated by the Lord

> himself, but by his devotees (Bharata & Shatrughna),

> unlike in the

> case of Bali or Ravana. This has a very beautiful

> implication.

> City 'Ayodhya' is described as the head (or mind) of

> Lord in the form

> of 'Virata Purusha'. Manthara's aim is to dissociate

> this city of joy

> & peace for ever. She wants to keep the Lord away

> from his devotee &

> she claims a very deserving victory. In the epic,

> one may find

> Manthara as a friend of Kaikeyi, but truly speaking

> she is not a

> friend to anybody. Manthara philososphy works

> independently.

>

> Understanding that activities related to mind works

> in the internal

> (Microcosm) & external(Macrocosm) mode, Rama opted

> to supress this

> internal instinct of mind through his dear Bharata &

> Shatrughna, &

> took charge of the external forces by himself aided

> by Lakshmana &

> Hanuman. This is a very IMP implication of Ramayana.

> Hence, in every

> Ayodhya there shud 'Bharata Rajyam ' prior to 'Rama

> Rajyam' as told

> in Ramayanam. 'Rama Rajyam' stands on 'Bharata

> Rajyam'. The stronger

> the Bharata Rajyam, the better will be Rama Rajyam.

>

> Thanks to every one, who added their valuable

> comments on BaliVadham.

> In the course of time, I will share my views on the

> same & expect all

> your reviews.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Hare Krishna

> Hare Rama

>

>

>

> guruvayur , Anoop Menon

> <anoopkmenon>

> wrote:

> > Dear All,

> >

> >

> > I have read the symbolic meaning of Bali Vadham(ie

> removal of lust

> and greed without confronting it directly.)

> >

> >

> >

> > I think everybody undoubtly agrees that Bali was

> not as bad as

> Ravana (otherwise the cause of Sri Rama avatar

> should have been

> killing Bali and not Ravana). So Ravana should be

> the concrete

> structure of lust and greed

> >

> >

> >

> > Then why did Rama adopted a method of killing

> Ravana directly

> instead of adopting a hiding tactics??Or is there

> any other symbolic

> meaning for killing Ravana??

> >

> >

> >

> > Please clear my doubts

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Anoop

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > alady sukumar <sukumarcanada> wrote:

> > Hari Om!

> > Very interesting thread indeed. In harinama

> keerthanam

> > we read " chemmE maRanjoru Saram koNTu konnathum

> > orindraathmajanne hari naaraayanaaya namaH "

> >

> > In one of the lectures by the late H.H. Swami

> > Chinmayananda he talked about the apparent

> > 'injustices' by Sri Rama. Swamiji said that the

> whole

> > Ramayana is a metaphor for righteous living. I

> don't

> > remember everything in his talk, but I am writing

> > whatI understand from the Bali episode.

> >

> > In the context of the lessons in life, killing

> Bali

> > represents removal of lust and greed permanently

> from

> > the disciple's mind. In the absence of these two,

> Bali

> > was a great considering prowess and even devotion.

>

> >

> > Lust and greed can only be removed in a rather

> > roundabout way as they have a tendency to increase

> > when confronted directly. They tend to increase as

> we

> > get some (patthu kiTTukil nooRu mathiyennum

> > Sathamaakil sahasram mathiyennum...).

> >

> > Sri Rama shows that the best way to remove them is

> by

> > indirectly attacking them- like the special

> medicine

> > given by a wife to her liquor addict husband

> without

> > his knowledge to create a strong dislike towards

> > alcohol. Obviously, he will not agree to that if

> he

> > knows about it. Sometimes we need help from other

> > sources to improve ourselves.

> >

> > The only way to get out of strong lust & greed is

> to

> > get a 'shock treatment' and I think symbolically

> that

> > is what has been portrayed in this episode of Sri

> > Rama.

> >

> > I appreciate if someone in the group can explain

> the

> > symbolism of Ramayana as the 'travel of jeevaathma

> > through the righteous and noble path of

> evolution'to

> > reach the ultimate goal.

> >

> > Hari Om!

> > Sukumar

> >

> >

> >

> > --- Sunil Menon <menon_sunil> wrote:

> >

> > > I agree with Sunitha. As far I know Shri Ram was

> the

> > > seventh Avatar of

> > > Vishnu in Threta Yuga and Shri Krishna took

> birth as

> > > the ninth Avatar

> > > in Dwapara Yuga. (Balarama is the eight Avatar.)

> > > [Even mahabharat explains this fact by Bhima's

> > > meeting of Hanuman, who became immortal with

> Ram's

> > > blessings.]

> > >

> > > The Bali episode has a deep moral significance.

> > >

> > > Bali, tried to kill his own brother and later

> > > married his brother's

> > > wife. The immoral and vicious brother represents

> > > Lust, the lower

> > > nature of man. Sugreeva, the moral and virtuous

> > > brother represents

> > > man's higher and nobler nature.

> > >

> > > I have also heard the story where Bali earned a

> boon

> > > by which half the

> > > strength of his enemy was transferred to him as

> soon

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

Mail

Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:

http://tour.mail./mailtour.html