[Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Indian history & Mahabharata

September 28, 2005

Ohm NamoBhagavathe Vasudevaya; Ohm Namo Narrayanaya

Dear Vinod,

Your mail is very informative and helpfull for

everybody.

Thank You.

Keerthi Kumar V Menon

--- " PS, Vinod K (GE Energy) " <vinod.ps wrote:

> !! Sri Rama Jayam !!

>

<http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/maps/mahabharat.gif>

>

> Story or History?

>

> 19th century European scholars (and so many

> contemporary Indian scholars(?)) maintain that the

> events described in Ramayan and Mahabharat are

> imaginary. Their theory has been that Ramayan,

> Mahabharat, Vedas, Upanishads and the Puranas were

> written about 200 years before Buddha, somewhere

> around 700BC.

>

> Here are some reasons to believe that this is

> actually a history.

>

> The country is named Bhaarat after the king Bharat

> (son of Dushyant & Shakuntala). What country would

> be named after the hero of a novel!

> There are too many changes in the Sanskrit language

> of these texts to occur in 200 years.

> European scholars brought the nomadic Aryan tribes,

> into India after 1500 BC. How could these Aryans

> create Sanskrit language, gain so much knowledge and

> write all these texts before 700 BC?

> Great Indian thinkers including Lokmanya Tilak, Sri

> Arbindo, and Dyanand Sarasvati rejected the European

> theory.

> It is absurd to say that these texts are fiction,

> because of its poetic nature. It was a custom to

> write everything (even Mathematical formulae) in

> poetic form.

> The time and place of events have been accurately

> recorded. All such recordings are redudant for a

> Maha-kavya.

> The details of the weapons, and wars are given to a

> minute detail, which is very boring for a " story " .

> The texts record some common dynasties, incedents,

> people and events. No two novels would have the same

> incedents, same people or same dynasties unless they

> are recording history.

> It is written in the texts from time to time that it

> is a " History " .

> A number of dynasties with their long lineage of

> kings (more than 50 from Manu) have been presented

> in the work. If it were just fiction, 4-5 kings

> would have sufficed to build the story on.

> Maurya, Gupta and Indo-Greek dynasties, are also

> recorded in our Puraanas. These dynasties are

> accepted only because, they are also recorded by

> Greek historians. What about the dynasties that

> existed before the Greek historians?

>

> Setting Timeline for Ramayan and Mahabharat

>

> * A tablet found in the Mohenjodaro sites , dated

> 2600BC, depicts Lord Krishna.

>

> * An Egyptian Pyramid, dated 3000 BC, has a verse

> from the Bhagavad Geeta.

>

> * From Vishnu Puraan it is known that the Kali Age

> started on February 20, 3102 BC. Mahabharat occured,

> before the end of Dwapar, hence 3102 BC seems to be

> the lower limit for Mahabharat.

>

> * Using the planetial positions mentioned in

> Mahabharat, dates have been calculated for the great

> war. The great Aryabhatta calculated 3100 BC. Dr.

> Patnaik calculated October 16, 3138 BC. Dr. P.V.

> Vartak proves this date to be October 16, 5561 B.C.

>

> At this point we can say that Mahabharat war occured

> latest in 3102 BC and earliest in 5561 BC.

> Considering this baseline for Mahabharat we

> calculate back in time ...

>

> Between Rama and Krishna there were about 60 kings.

> Say, each king ruled for about 35 years. (The

> history of India from 300 BC to 1700 AD, shows each

> king ruled for 40-45 years). So even after assuming

> a lower range of 35 years, one can say that Rama

> existed atleast 2000 years before Krishna. So Rama

> existed latest in 5100 BC and earliest in 7500 BC.

> (Dr. P. V. Vartak has calculated the birth date of

> Rama as 4th Dec 7323 BC.)

>

> Dushyant's contemporary Anaranya was Rama's 40th

> ancestor. Thus Dushyant, must have existed @1200

> years before Rama. That gives the time frame of 6300

> BC - 8800 BC for Dushyant and his contemporaries:

> Parshuram, Vishwamitra, Vasishta and Bharat.

>

> Anaranya, was the 62nd decendant of Manu. Thus Manu

> existed atleast 2000 years before Dushyant. So, Manu

> must have existed sometime between 8300 BC and

> 10,800 BC.

>

> Note on position of planets:

> During early times, it was not customary to keep a

> count of years. Panchang & Shaka came into being

> sometime in the last 5,000 years. Thus, the early

> Hindus gave the positions of Vernal equinox,

> Saptarshi & the planets to define exact time. This

> evidence from Ramayan and Mahabharat has been used

> to calculate the times for the events.

>

> Note on the idol of Krishna found in Mohenjodaro:

> Not only statue of Krishna, but also of Shiva and

> Durga were found. This means that the people in the

> Sarasvati-Sindhu valley considered Krishna & Shiva

> as their gods. Also the " Arya " Krishna existed

> before " Aryan Invasion " destroyed the Saraswati

> valley! Knock! Knock! Anything wrong in the Aryant

> Invasion Theory?

>

> Note on the verse of Geeta on Egyptian Pyramid:

> There are some scholars who say: This proves that

> Krishna learned his Geeta philosophy from the

> Egyptians!

> Please note that only one verse of Geeta was found

> in Egypt, not the whole Geeta. Here it is:

>

> vasanvsi jeernani yatha vihaya, navani

> ghrunnati naro parani

>

> - Nava Bharat Times, 18-4-1967

>

> Please visit -

>

http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/info/when.htm

>

> Hare Krishna

> Hare Rama

>

<http://visit.geocities.com/visit.gif? & r=http%3A//www.geocities.com/narenp/histo\

ry/info/when.htm & b=Microsoft%20Internet%20Explorer%204.0%20%28compatible%3B%20MS\

IE%206.0%3B%20Windows%20NT%205.0%3B%20.NET%20CLR%201.1.4322%29 & s=1024x768 & o=Win3\

2 & c=32 & j=true & v=1.2>

>

> setstats

>

<http://visit.webhosting./visit.gif?us1127884864>

>

> 1

>

<http://geo./serv?s=76001079 & t=1127884864 & f=us-w71>

>

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

September 29, 2005

Dear All

It was a wonderful piece of writing from Shri. Vinod that allowed us to take stock of our heritage and reinforce our rich tradition.

Denigrating and / or cirticising other religions / practices is unnecessary. This distracts us from creating a deeper understanding and practice of our own Sanatana Dharma.

Let us be proud of our heritage by not mere words but by our deeds and actions; that reflect the highest level of acceptance (not tolerance) of divergence and bringing "love" in our lives for every living being.

Hari Om Namo NarayanayaRajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram wrote:

As a matter of fact, most scholars today discount the possibility that Jesus ever existed. Though we have been flooded with the notion that he did, there is no evidence that he did. In fact there is enough evidence to the contrary that he did not. The following are tip of the iceberg:

1) There are 139 birthdays of Jesus over history.

2) There are internal contradictions in the bible with respect to the way he was born and the way he died.

3) There is no contemporary record of Jesus in writing, sculptures, paintings etc. It was the most recorded period of history.

4) Early Church tried to forge documents to create historical evidence and this has been exposed.

We have to take the steps to expose these fallacies. But the Indian governments over thep ast few decades have tried to project a positive image about Islam and Christianity but portray Hinduism in a bad light for political mileage. But truth will prevail. We should just make ourselves deserving by fighting for it.

Regarding historical evidence of Krishna and Rama, it should be based on vedic conception of time and space. I believe Rama lived many millions of years ago as he lived in treta yuga.KEERTHI KUMAR <keerthibai wrote:

Ohm NamoBhagavathe Vasudevaya; Ohm Namo NarrayanayaDear Vinod,Your mail is very informative and helpfull foreverybody.Thank You.Keerthi Kumar V Menon--- "PS, Vinod K (GE Energy)" <vinod.ps wrote:> !! Sri Rama Jayam !!> > > > > > ><http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/maps/mahabharat.gif>> > > > Story or History?> > > 19th century European scholars (and so many> contemporary Indian scholars(?)) maintain that the> events described in Ramayan and Mahabharat are> imaginary. Their theory has been that Ramayan,> Mahabharat, Vedas, Upanishads and the Puranas

were> written about 200 years before Buddha, somewhere> around 700BC. > > Here are some reasons to believe that this is> actually a history. > > The country is named Bhaarat after the king Bharat> (son of Dushyant & Shakuntala). What country would> be named after the hero of a novel! > There are too many changes in the Sanskrit language> of these texts to occur in 200 years. > European scholars brought the nomadic Aryan tribes,> into India after 1500 BC. How could these Aryans> create Sanskrit language, gain so much knowledge and> write all these texts before 700 BC? > Great Indian thinkers including Lokmanya Tilak, Sri> Arbindo, and Dyanand Sarasvati rejected the European> theory. > It is absurd to say that these texts are

fiction,> because of its poetic nature. It was a custom to> write everything (even Mathematical formulae) in> poetic form. > The time and place of events have been accurately> recorded. All such recordings are redudant for a> Maha-kavya. > The details of the weapons, and wars are given to a> minute detail, which is very boring for a "story". > The texts record some common dynasties, incedents,> people and events. No two novels would have the same> incedents, same people or same dynasties unless they> are recording history. > It is written in the texts from time to time that it> is a "History". > A number of dynasties with their long lineage of> kings (more than 50 from Manu) have been presented> in the work. If it

were just fiction, 4-5 kings> would have sufficed to build the story on. > Maurya, Gupta and Indo-Greek dynasties, are also> recorded in our Puraanas. These dynasties are> accepted only because, they are also recorded by> Greek historians. What about the dynasties that> existed before the Greek historians? > > > > > Setting Timeline for Ramayan and Mahabharat> > > * A tablet found in the Mohenjodaro sites , dated> 2600BC, depicts Lord Krishna. > > * An Egyptian Pyramid, dated 3000 BC, has a verse > from the Bhagavad Geeta. > > * From Vishnu Puraan it is known that the Kali Age> started on February 20, 3102 BC. Mahabharat occured,> before the end of Dwapar, hence

3102 BC seems to be> the lower limit for Mahabharat. > > * Using the planetial positions mentioned in> Mahabharat, dates have been calculated for the great> war. The great Aryabhatta calculated 3100 BC. Dr.> Patnaik calculated October 16, 3138 BC. Dr. P.V.> Vartak proves this date to be October 16, 5561 B.C. > > At this point we can say that Mahabharat war occured> latest in 3102 BC and earliest in 5561 BC.> Considering this baseline for Mahabharat we> calculate back in time ... > > Between Rama and Krishna there were about 60 kings.> Say, each king ruled for about 35 years. (The> history of India from 300 BC to 1700 AD, shows each> king ruled for 40-45 years). So even after assuming> a lower range of 35 years, one can say that Rama> existed atleast 2000 years before Krishna. So Rama> existed latest in 5100 BC and

earliest in 7500 BC.> (Dr. P. V. Vartak has calculated the birth date of> Rama as 4th Dec 7323 BC.) > > > Dushyant's contemporary Anaranya was Rama's 40th> ancestor. Thus Dushyant, must have existed @1200> years before Rama. That gives the time frame of 6300> BC - 8800 BC for Dushyant and his contemporaries:> Parshuram, Vishwamitra, Vasishta and Bharat. > > > Anaranya, was the 62nd decendant of Manu. Thus Manu> existed atleast 2000 years before Dushyant. So, Manu> must have existed sometime between 8300 BC and> 10,800 BC. > > > Note on position of planets: > During early times, it was not customary to keep a> count of years. Panchang & Shaka came into being> sometime in the last 5,000 years. Thus, the early> Hindus gave the positions of Vernal equinox,> Saptarshi & the planets to define exact time. This>

evidence from Ramayan and Mahabharat has been used> to calculate the times for the events. > > > > Note on the idol of Krishna found in Mohenjodaro: > Not only statue of Krishna, but also of Shiva and> Durga were found. This means that the people in the> Sarasvati-Sindhu valley considered Krishna & Shiva> as their gods. Also the "Arya" Krishna existed> before "Aryan Invasion" destroyed the Saraswati> valley! Knock! Knock! Anything wrong in the Aryant> Invasion Theory? > > > > Note on the verse of Geeta on Egyptian Pyramid: > There are some scholars who say: This proves that> Krishna learned his Geeta philosophy from the> Egyptians! > Please note that only one verse of Geeta was found> in Egypt, not the whole Geeta. Here it is: > > > vasanvsi jeernani yatha vihaya, navani >

ghrunnati naro parani > > - Nava Bharat Times, 18-4-1967 > > Please visit ->http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/info/when.htm> > Hare Krishna> Hare Rama> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><http://visit.geocities.com/visit.gif? & r=http%3A//www.geocities.com/narenp/history/info/when.htm & b=Microsoft%20Internet%20Explorer%204.0%20%28compatible%3B%20MSIE%206.0%3B%20Windows%20NT%205.0%3B%20.NET%20CLR%201.1.4322%29 & s=1024x768 & o=Win32 & c=32 & j=true & v=1.2>> > setstats><http://visit.webhosting./visit.gif?us1127884864>> > 1><http://geo./serv?s=76001079 & t=1127884864 & f=us-w71>> >

Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

for GoodClick here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Best regards,Subbu Iyer

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October 5, 2005

Krishna, Guruvayoorappa !

Hinduism is not in the same condition in all ages . It’s condition in various ages are given in Bhgavatam as follows :

-------------

SB 12.3.18-19 : Sukadeva Gosvm+ said: My dear King, in the beginning, during Satya-yuga, the age of truth, religion is present with all four of its legs intact and is carefully maintained by the people of that age. These four legs of powerful religion are truthfulness, mercy, austerity and charity.The people of Satya-yuga are for the most part self-satisfied, merciful, friendly to all, peaceful, sober and tolerant. They take their pleasure from within, see all things equally and always endeavor diligently for spiritual SB 12.3.20-21: In Treta-yuga each leg of religion is gradually reduced by one

quarter by the influence of the four pillars of irreligion — lying, violence, dissatisfaction and quarrel. In the Treta age people are devoted to ritual performances and severe austerities. They are not excessively violent or very lusty after sensual pleasure. Their interest lies primarily in religiosity, economic development and regulated sense gratification, and they achieve prosperity by following the prescriptions of the three Vedas. Although in this age society evolves into four separate classes, O King, most people are brhman#as.

SB 12.3.22-23 : In Dvapara-yuga the religious qualities of austerity, truth, mercy and charity are reduced to one half by their irreligious counterparts — dissatisfaction, untruth, violence and enmity. In the Dvapara age people are interested in glory and are very noble. They devote themselves to the study of the Vedas, possess great opulence, support large families and enjoy life with vigor. Of the four classes, the ks#atriyas and brhman#as are most numerous.

SB 12.3.24-25 In the age of Kali only one fourth of the religious principles remains. That last remnant will continuously be decreased by the ever-increasing principles of irreligion and will finally be destroyed. In the Kali age people tend to be greedy, ill-behaved and merciless, and they fight one another without good reason. Unfortunate and obsessed with material desires, the people of Kali-yuga are almost all [kdras and barbarians

----

From the above revelations in Bhagavatam as well as the matching ground realities around us, we can understand that the ‘handicapped’ Hinduism of this age is facing severe cultural onslaughts by anti-vedic forces . Also, demonic personalities like Atheists and Communists are distorting the Indian history , to tarnish the eternal region. Even faithful followers are often confused by this mis-information campaign.

The Puranas like Mahabharatha and Ramayana are not only sacred texts but are vast treasure houses of knowledge . An honest investigator can easily find archaeological proof to substantiate the events mentioned in the mentioned texts. Unfortunately, the ruling elite of India is considering these sacred texts as a threat to their political existence. They try to nullify the relevance of these texts by popularizing ‘Secular’ texts which are nothing but ‘demonic’ literature.

Any effort to convince the common man on the truthfulness of Ramayana and Mahabharatham is a great service to Sri Krishna the protector of ‘Sanatana Dharma’ . There is no greater service than popularizing Bhagavan’s glories mentioned in the Puranas. It is absolutely unbecoming for a devotee to take everything for granted.

May Sri Guruvayoorappan bless us in our endeavors to popularize Vedic scriptures .

Krishnadaya--------------------------------GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:

I agree with Balagopal.Hindu dharma can't be destroyed and even after several invasions in the past centuries by many forces from outside Hindu dharma is able to withstand the onslaught and stands like a banyan tree.Not only that it has been able to spread its tentacles in other parts of the world like an octopus.More and more foreigners are attracted by the truth contained in our vedas,scriptures and other such things and flock to our country to learn and also spread the same in their countries.As Hindu dharma has a hoary past and laid on a solid foundation nothing can destroy the same as it never preaches one to follow one particular line.All can find the concepts according to their will.At the same time it emphasises what is good and what is bad and leave the matter to the individual will.

Regarding the matter concerning whether Mahabharatha or Ramayana is myth or reality there are so many sites for and against and the same are created just to confuse the otherwise devout persons and that need not be given any value.There are such sites agianst other religions and abt Great Souls also.If we go deep then all the things contain matters of controversies and to discuss the same is only futile as even during the time of Krishna,He was considered as a magician by the Kauravas and God by the Pandavas.So as long as this world exists there will always be controversies but succumbing to that will lead one nowhere and one shuld follow one's faith without unnecessarily bothering abt such arguments and carry on in one's faith ignoring such things and pursue in one's path of spiritual uplift without giving undue importance of the texts.The scheme of nature is such that there are always both positive and negative factors and opposite things in everything and without that

the life can't have the charm.So let everyone follow according to his/her faith and follow or not follow the path of higher values is left to choice.Hence it is meanigless to take topic of controversies and discuss on the same as the same will only hv negative effect.

Hare Krishna.balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote:

!!! HARI AUM !!!'Hindu' dharma is like the atmosphere whichencompasses everything. Nobody can own it, contain it,destroy it; but can definetly use it. It is there aslong as god wills it. The beauty is nothing is alienor outside it. A Hindu remains a Hindu as long as heis around. That is why we have even atheisticphiolosophies like that of Charvakas in our ambit.We do not have to prove or disprove. We only have tostrive and attain. The roadmap as suited to everyindividual is available in our Dharma.Make use of it.RegardsBalagopalNarayana Narayana Narayana--- Subbu Iyer <iyers_96027 wrote:> Dear All> > It was a wonderful piece of writing from Shri. Vinod> that allowed us to take stock of our heritage and> reinforce our

rich tradition. > > Denigrating and / or cirticising other religions /> practices is unnecessary. This distracts us from> creating a deeper understanding and practice of our> own Sanatana Dharma. > > Let us be proud of our heritage by not mere words> but by our deeds and actions; that reflect the> highest level of acceptance (not tolerance) of> divergence and bringing "love" in our lives for> every living being. > > Hari Om Namo Narayanaya> > Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram wrote:> As a matter of fact, most scholars today discount> the possibility that Jesus ever existed. Though we> have been flooded with the notion that he did, there> is no evidence that he did. In fact there is enough> evidence to the contrary that he did not. The> following are tip of the iceberg:> > 1) There are

139 birthdays of Jesus over history. > 2) There are internal contradictions in the bible> with respect to the way he was born and the way he> died. > 3) There is no contemporary record of Jesus in> writing, sculptures, paintings etc. It was the most> recorded period of history. > 4) Early Church tried to forge documents to create> historical evidence and this has been exposed. > > We have to take the steps to expose these fallacies.> But the Indian governments over thep ast few decades> have tried to project a positive image about Islam> and Christianity but portray Hinduism in a bad light> for political mileage. But truth will prevail. We> should just make ourselves deserving by fighting for> it. > > Regarding historical evidence of Krishna and Rama,> it should be based on vedic conception of time and> space. I believe Rama lived

many millions of years> ago as he lived in treta yuga.> KEERTHI KUMAR <keerthibai wrote:> Ohm NamoBhagavathe Vasudevaya; Ohm Namo Narrayanaya> > Dear Vinod,> > Your mail is very informative and helpfull for> everybody.> > Thank You.> > Keerthi Kumar V Menon> > > > --- "PS, Vinod K (GE Energy)" <vinod.ps> wrote:> > > !! Sri Rama Jayam !!> > > > > > > > > > > > > >><http://www.geocities.com/narenp/history/maps/mahabharat.gif>> > > > > > > > Story or History?> > > > > > 19th century European scholars (and so many> > contemporary Indian scholars(?))

maintain that the> > events described in Ramayan and Mahabharat are> > imaginary. Their theory has been that Ramayan,> > Mahabharat, Vedas, Upanishads and the Puranas were> > written about 200 years before Buddha, somewhere> > around 700BC. > > > > Here are some reasons to believe that this is> > actually a history. > > > > The country is named Bhaarat after the king Bharat> > (son of Dushyant & Shakuntala). What country would> > be named after the hero of a novel! > > There are too many changes in the Sanskrit> language> > of these texts to occur in 200 years. > > European scholars brought the nomadic Aryan> tribes,> > into India after 1500 BC. How could these Aryans> > create Sanskrit language, gain so much knowledge>

and> > write all these texts before 700 BC? > > Great Indian thinkers including Lokmanya Tilak,> Sri> > Arbindo, and Dyanand Sarasvati rejected the> European> > theory. > > It is absurd to say that these texts are fiction,> > because of its poetic nature. It was a custom to> > write everything (even Mathematical formulae) in> > poetic form. > > The time and place of events have been accurately> > recorded. All such recordings are redudant for a> > Maha-kavya. > > The details of the weapons, and wars are given to> a> > minute detail, which is very boring for a "story".> > > The texts record some common dynasties, incedents,> >

people and events. No two novels would have the> same> > incedents, same people or same dynasties unless> they> > are recording history. > > It is written in the texts from time to time that> it> > is a "History". > > A number of dynasties with their long lineage of> > kings (more than 50 from Manu) have been presented> > in the work. If it were just fiction, 4-5 kings> > would have sufficed to build the story on. > > Maurya, Gupta and Indo-Greek dynasties, are also> > recorded in our Puraanas. These dynasties are> > accepted only because, they are also recorded by> > Greek historians. What about the dynasties that> > existed before the Greek historians? > > > >

> > > > > > Setting Timeline for Ramayan and Mahabharat> > > > > > * A tablet found in the Mohenjodaro sites ,> dated> > 2600BC, depicts Lord Krishna. > > > > * An Egyptian Pyramid, dated 3000 BC, has a> verse > > from the Bhagavad Geeta. > > > > * From Vishnu Puraan it is known that the> Kali Age> > started on February 20, 3102 BC. Mahabharat> occured,> > before the end of Dwapar, hence 3102 BC seems to> be> > the lower limit for Mahabharat. > > > > * Using the planetial positions mentioned in> > Mahabharat, dates have been calculated for the> great> > war. The great Aryabhatta calculated 3100 BC. Dr.> > Patnaik

calculated October 16, 3138 BC. Dr. P.V.> > Vartak proves this date to be October 16, 5561> B.C. > > > > At this point we can say that Mahabharat war> occured> > latest in 3102 BC and earliest in 5561 BC.> > Considering this baseline for Mahabharat we> > calculate back in time ... > > > > Between Rama and Krishna there were about 60> kings.> > Say, each king ruled for about 35 years. (The> > history of India from 300 BC to 1700 AD, shows> each> > king ruled for 40-45 years). So even after> assuming> > a lower range of 35 years, one can say that Rama> > existed atleast 2000 years before Krishna. So Rama> > existed latest in 5100 BC and earliest in 7500 BC.> > (Dr. P. V. Vartak has calculated the birth date of> > Rama as 4th Dec 7323 BC.) > > > > > > Dushyant's

contemporary Anaranya was Rama's 40th> > ancestor. Thus Dushyant, must have existed @1200> > years before Rama. That gives the time frame of> 6300> > BC - 8800 BC for Dushyant and his contemporaries:> > Parshuram, Vishwamitra, Vasishta and Bharat. > > > > > > Anaranya, was the 62nd decendant of Manu. Thus> Manu> > existed atleast 2000 years before Dushyant. So,> Manu> === message truncated === ________ India Matrimony: Find your partner now. Go to http://.shaadi.com

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