Guest guest Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Dear Balagopal, Nice discussion you have brought up. I would also include the 64th sloka 2nd chapter, as conveying the same mood of freedom. I had this on my blog... http://freebird18.blogspot.com/ Regards Abhilash --- balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: > HARI AUM > > > During our waken life we have to keep taking > decisions > to keep moving. Most are taken sub consciously, > without much effort,some out of sheer habits, and > others due to the instincts we are born with-like we > pull back from fire, runaway from dangers we fear > facing..etc. > > Now this being the case we have choices too. (as > Sartre said-freedom of choice is the despair of man) > > Has Bhagavan given us some clues? > > I think verse 22 in Chapter 5 of Gita can be used as > the litmus test to make our selections. > > It is very simple, easy and very effective. > > I request to understand the powerful words he has > used > so selectively, aptly and very accurately in this > verse. > > I hope those of you who are more familiar with the > Gita and other scriptures will supplement into this. > > > Regards > > Balagopal > > NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://in.messenger. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 HARI AUM Dear Shree Abhilash, While going thru the blog you had referred I came across this most widely quoted verse from Gita and its explanation: karmany evadhikaras te ma phaleshu kadacana ma karma-phala-hetur bhur ma te sango ’stv akarmani TRANSLATION: You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty. ~Gita2.47 I had noticed, invariably most of the explanations reagrding the FRUITS of ACTION go like-but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. I feel that a more apt explanation is -you have no RIGHT to the fruits.Your RIGHT is to ACT only.- Now this does not mean that you should not think of the fruits or are not entitled to it. Unless we have a GOAL we cannot PLAN. Without a plan it amounts to PURPOSELESS and tantamounts to DIRECTIONLESS activity.I don't think Bhagavan ever meant it to be so. Moreover the word used is 'adhikarasthe'. The second line emphasises it by saying that -you are not the AUTHOR (hetuh)of the result.-It is true and logical too, since the result occurs in the FUTURE and we have no way to access it. Also the factors that affects to produce that RESULT in the FUTURE are countless which definetly are beyond ordinary human capacity. Welcoming inputs from more knowledgeable members of this forum Regards Balagopal NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA --- Abhilash Nair <abhilash_ramachandran wrote: Dear Balagopal, Nice discussion you have brought up. I would also include the 64th sloka 2nd chapter, as conveying the same mood of freedom. I had this on my blog... http://freebird18.blogspot.com/ Regards Abhilash --- balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: > HARI AUM > > > During our waken life we have to keep taking > decisions > to keep moving. Most are taken sub consciously, > without much effort,some out of sheer habits, and > others due to the instincts we are born with-like we > pull back from fire, runaway from dangers we fear > facing..etc. > > Now this being the case we have choices too. (as > Sartre said-freedom of choice is the despair of man) > > Has Bhagavan given us some clues? > > I think verse 22 in Chapter 5 of Gita can be used as > the litmus test to make our selections. > > It is very simple, easy and very effective. > > I request to understand the powerful words he has > used > so selectively, aptly and very accurately in this > verse. > > I hope those of you who are more familiar with the > Gita and other scriptures will supplement into this. > > > Regards > > Balagopal > > NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://in.messenger. > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around Om Namo Narayanaya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 I agree in a way you are right.But there seems to be an anomaly and defeat of purpose in this injunction of the Lord when He says Perform yor duty,but not claim to its fruits.Not an atom moves without a motive.Beings are all busy either to gain something or to ward off something unwanted.In the absence of such a motive no action needs to be performed.But the Lord induces Arjuna not to be motivated and at the same time to be intensively active.Yes.herein lies the turning point in life from Preyas to Sreyas.Good accrues from detachment and not from attachment.Karma in itself is no evil, but it becomes so when mixed up with desire.Desire tainted Karma gives continuity to the wheel of birth and death.The seekers after heavenly enjoyments are also slaves to desire. Conquerers of desire are they who care not for the fruits of Karma.Freedom from desire is the real freedom.When duty is discharged untarnished by desire, clarity of understanding ensues.In addition to it efficiency increases.Action therefore has to be performed perfectly by one unmindful of the fruits thereof. Sri Ramakrishna says 'A boat may be floating on water,but no water shuld be allowed to get into it.Man may live in this world,but no worldly desire ought to take possession of him. Hare Krishna. balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: HARI AUMDear Shree Abhilash,While going thru the blog you had referred I cameacross this most widely quoted verse from Gita and itsexplanation:karmany evadhikaras tema phaleshu kadacanama karma-phala-hetur bhurma te sango ’stv akarmaniTRANSLATION: You have a right to perform yourprescribed duty, but you are not entitled to thefruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause ofthe results of your activities, and never be attachedto not doing your duty.~Gita2.47I had noticed, invariably most of the explanationsreagrding the FRUITS of ACTION go like-but you are notentitled to the fruits of action.I feel that a more apt explanation is -you have noRIGHT to the fruits.Your RIGHT is to ACT only.-Now this does not mean that you should not think ofthe fruits or are not entitled to it. Unless we have aGOAL we cannot PLAN. Without a plan it amounts toPURPOSELESS and tantamounts to DIRECTIONLESSactivity.I don't think Bhagavan ever meant it to beso. Moreover the word used is 'adhikarasthe'. The second line emphasises it by saying that -you arenot the AUTHOR (hetuh)of the result.-It is true andlogical too, since the result occurs in the FUTURE andwe have no way to access it. Also the factors thataffects to produce that RESULT in the FUTURE arecountless which definetly are beyond ordinary humancapacity.Welcoming inputs from more knowledgeable members ofthis forumRegardsBalagopalNARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA --- Abhilash Nair <abhilash_ramachandranwrote:Dear Balagopal,Nice discussion you have brought up.I would also include the 64th sloka 2nd chapter, asconveying the same mood of freedom.I had this on my blog...http://freebird18.blogspot.com/RegardsAbhilash--- balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpalwrote:> HARI AUM> > > During our waken life we have to keep taking> decisions> to keep moving. Most are taken sub consciously,> without much effort,some out of sheer habits, and> others due to the instincts we are born with-like we> pull back from fire, runaway from dangers we fear> facing..etc.> > Now this being the case we have choices too. (as> Sartre said-freedom of choice is the despair of man)> > Has Bhagavan given us some clues?> > I think verse 22 in Chapter 5 of Gita can be used as> the litmus test to make our selections.> > It is very simple, easy and very effective.> > I request to understand the powerful words he has> used> so selectively, aptly and very accurately in this> verse. > > I hope those of you who are more familiar with the> Gita and other scriptures will supplement into this.> > > Regards> > Balagopal> > NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA> > > Send instant messages to your online friends> http://in.messenger. > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spamprotection around Om Namo Narayanaya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Dear All, This is an excellant site. There are lot of MP3 downloads. Some in Malayalam and English. The speechs are good. http://iish.org/ Om Namo Narayanaya Sreenivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Dear Sri Balagopal, Pardon me for talking to you like a friend in previous mails, by calling your name directly. Result of too much of western influence. What you are saying definitely makes sense. Without result what is the motivation to work? I am on the same page with you. When we take the Gita in the hand we have to understand that there are many people in this world who are on different levels of existence, and each might read and accept the Gita according to their level. By the blessings of Vaishnavas I have understood to some extend theoreticaly, though I am personaly not on the level of this sloka. Even when I work, my attention is mostly on the fruits - " what can I acheive by doing this " . If we explore the 3rd chapter - Karma Yoga, we can see how the Lord connects what you have said (working with attachment to results) to what this sloka states - to work without attachment. In the 3rd Chapter: by 8th sloka L.Krishna establishes that action is better than inaction or pre-mature renunciation. From 9th sloka to 16th sloka the Lord elaborates on Karma-Kanda. In Karma-kanda, one is acting only to gain material benefits, which is the goal. He has mundane bhakti to different devi-devatas, so that by pleasing them he can leave happily in this world and the next (materialy). From the 17th to 29th sloka the Lord talks about Nishkama Karma Yoga. Here one is not attached to the fruits of action. One is in the perfected stage, situated in spiritual bliss, and one acts as a duty, to set the right example to society. One does not crave for material pleasures, though he may be acting in the same way that a normal materialistic person would. In 30th, the Lord talks of pure bhakti. Pure bhakti happens when the Lord Himslef is reposed with all our fruits and our actions. The Lords hapiness is the reason for our actions and all the fruits are happily given in the service of the Lord. One is ready to even break mundane scriptural instructions, for the higher purpose of pleasing the Lord. This is the first sloka in the Gita (2.30), where the Lord declares himself as the object of worship. Pls note, how the Lord gradualy builds up the theme of pure-bhakti, in this chapter, all the way from Karma-Kanda. But, he does not explain further.... For more details on pure bhakti we need to get to the 9th chapter. Back to the topic: So inbetween these 2 - Karma Kanda and NishkAma Karma yoga, is where there is a category known as sakAma karma yoga. In this stage, one is still attached to the fruits of action, but one has the preliminary/theoretical understanding that one is not the body; one is the soul - spirit. As one developes more and more faith and as he becomes more and more situated in the sublime spiritual platform, he moves closer and closer towards Nishkama Karma Yoga. This Nishkama-Karma-Yoga is the level of existence that the Lord talks about in the 2.47 sloka. Majority of the humans are in Karma-Kanda stage, some are in sakAma karma yoga stage. Hardly few are in the Nishkama and pure bhakti stage. So, it is but natural that we have asked this question - " what is the motivation to act " ? I humbly, meekly accept that I am nowhere near this point of being able to be indifferent to the fruits of actions. But, a sense of disconnect to matter, when developed, helps us to act confidently and un-biasedly in all situations. It cannot be imposed artificialy. Hare Krishna Abhilash --- GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: > I agree in a way you are right.But there seems to be > an anomaly and defeat of > purpose in this injunction of the Lord when He > says Perform yor duty,but not claim to its > fruits.Not an atom moves without a motive.Beings are > all busy either > to gain something or to ward off something > unwanted.In the absence of such a motive no action > needs to be performed.But the Lord induces Arjuna > not to be > motivated and at the same time to be intensively > active.Yes.herein lies the > turning point in life from Preyas to Sreyas.Good > accrues from detachment and > not from attachment.Karma in itself is no evil, > but it becomes so when mixed up > with desire.Desire tainted Karma gives continuity > to the wheel of birth and > death.The seekers after heavenly enjoyments are > also slaves to desire. > Conquerers of desire are they who care not for the > fruits of Karma.Freedom from > desire is the real freedom.When duty is discharged > untarnished by desire, > clarity of understanding ensues.In addition to it > efficiency increases.Action > therefore has to be performed perfectly by one > unmindful of the fruits thereof. > Sri Ramakrishna says 'A boat may be floating on > water,but no water shuld be > allowed to get into it.Man may live in this > world,but no worldly desire ought to > take possession of him. > > Hare Krishna. > > > balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: > > HARI AUM > > Dear Shree Abhilash, > > While going thru the blog you had referred I came > across this most widely quoted verse from Gita and > its > explanation: > > karmany evadhikaras te > ma phaleshu kadacana > ma karma-phala-hetur bhur > ma te sango ’stv akarmani > > TRANSLATION: You have a right to perform your > prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the > fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause > of > the results of your activities, and never be > attached > to not doing your duty. > ~Gita2.47 > > I had noticed, invariably most of the explanations > reagrding the FRUITS of ACTION go like-but you are > not > entitled to the fruits of action. > > I feel that a more apt explanation is -you have no > RIGHT to the fruits.Your RIGHT is to ACT only.- > > Now this does not mean that you should not think of > the fruits or are not entitled to it. Unless we have > a > GOAL we cannot PLAN. Without a plan it amounts to > PURPOSELESS and tantamounts to DIRECTIONLESS > activity.I don't think Bhagavan ever meant it to be > so. Moreover the word used is 'adhikarasthe'. > The second line emphasises it by saying that -you > are > not the AUTHOR (hetuh)of the result.-It is true and > logical too, since the result occurs in the FUTURE > and > we have no way to access it. Also the factors that > affects to produce that RESULT in the FUTURE are > countless which definetly are beyond ordinary human > capacity. > > Welcoming inputs from more knowledgeable members of > this forum > > Regards > > Balagopal > > > NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA --- Abhilash Nair <abhilash_ramachandran > wrote: > > > > Dear Balagopal, > Nice discussion you have brought up. > > I would also include the 64th sloka 2nd chapter, as > conveying the same mood of freedom. > > I had this on my blog... > > http://freebird18.blogspot.com/ > > Regards > Abhilash > > --- balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal > wrote: > > > HARI AUM > > > > > > During our waken life we have to keep taking > > decisions > > to keep moving. Most are taken sub consciously, > > without much effort,some out of sheer habits, and > > others due to the instincts we are born with-like > we > > pull back from fire, runaway from dangers we fear > > facing..etc. > > > > Now this being the case we have choices too. (as > > Sartre said-freedom of choice is the despair of > man) > > > > Has Bhagavan given us some clues? > > > > I think verse 22 in Chapter 5 of Gita can be used > as > > the litmus test to make our selections. > > > > It is very simple, easy and very effective. > > > > I request to understand the powerful words he has > > used > > so selectively, aptly and very accurately in this > > verse. > > > > I hope those of you who are more familiar with the > > Gita and other scriptures will supplement into > this. > > > > > > Regards > > > > Balagopal > > > > NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > http://in.messenger. > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya: > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Dear al.l. Performing one's duty without expecting any fruits of action. A very difficult process indeed. It is said that even a fool will not indulge in any action without ascertaining what are the returns he is goiung to get. While being so, to do one's duty and assign the fruits to the Lord, which is the essense of Karma Yoga is extremely difficult to practise. Secondly, what is the definition of duty? when the Bhagavadgita was preached by the Lord to Arjuna, the duty which was preached to Arjuna was the duty or Swadharma of a Kshatriya. He has also said, " Chathurvarnyam Maya Srishtam gunakarmavibhagasah " In other words, the four Varnas were created by Him on the basis of the preponderance of the Three Gunas, Sattvam, Rajas and Tamas, and also the professions people were performing. Karma was defined as " Nithya, Naimittika and Prayaschittha " . So, one was supposed to follow his swadharma as spelt out by the Varna he was placed. Fine. What is today's definition of duty ? His durty as an engineer, or doctor, or operator or driver. How can one follow the Gita dictum. " Karmanyeva adhikarasthe, na phaleshu kadachana " , when the son is waiting for father's salary to pay school fees, and the wife is waiting to buy grocery?. I have practised this dictum throughout my career. I was doing the jobs whatever my boss asked me to do or whatever was demanded by my job description. Never thought of getting a promotion or asked for a salary increase, or debated with the boss why the other man got a promotion before me when we both were doing the same job and our job-ratings were also the same. Net result--- It took me 20 years to get a promotion when others took only 5 years. I said, " doesn't matter- I still stuck to my principles " . That is the only satisfaction which I got, but I found that this satisfaction was ever-lasting, though I might have got few rupees lesser than my competitors on the job. I never regretted. In the present day society where people have to put up " Udara-nimittham ..bahukritha-vesham " , the so-called swadharma , as pointed out by many saints like Swami Vivekananda, Swami Chinmayananda, Swami Tapasyananda and many others, has to be defined as righteous behavior, whatever applicable to the person, as he considers fit. He has to tailor his needs and actions according to that. The only thing one has to remember and practise is that anything done without resorting to unjust means or accepting bribery should be considered as Dharma. If one does that and leaves the rest to God, he would become a Karma Yogi. Finally, Karma Yoga yields only purity of mind. Not direct salvation. If one is aspiring for salvation, he should then follow Jnana-yoga or Bhakti-yoga. Jana-yoga is again difficult to get results. The Lord HImself has said " Bahoonam Janmanam anthe Jnanavan mam prapadyate " ( After many many transmigratory cycles, the man of knowledge reaches Me " .) So the best is Bhakti-yoga which is the easiest to practise and sure of getting results. Bhakti is very much related to Vairagya or renunciation, but the one who practices Bhakti-yoga will automatically develop renunciation and the " I-ness " and " My-ness " will vanish while Bhakti reaches its zenith. Unless renunciation comes, self-realisation is impossible. Warmest regards K.V. Gopalakrishna. GANAPATHY RAMAN wrote: >I agree in a way you are right.But there seems to be an anomaly and defeat of > purpose in this injunction of the Lord when He says Perform yor duty,but not claim to its fruits.Not an atom moves without a motive.Beings are all busy either > to gain something or to ward off something unwanted.In the absence of such a motive no action needs to be performed.But the Lord induces Arjuna not to be > motivated and at the same time to be intensively active.Yes.herein lies the > turning point in life from Preyas to Sreyas.Good accrues from detachment and > not from attachment.Karma in itself is no evil, but it becomes so when mixed up > with desire.Desire tainted Karma gives continuity to the wheel of birth and > death.The seekers after heavenly enjoyments are also slaves to desire. > Conquerers of desire are they who care not for the fruits of Karma.Freedom from > desire is the real freedom.When duty is discharged untarnished by desire, > clarity of understanding ensues.In addition to it efficiency increases.Action > therefore has to be performed perfectly by one unmindful of the fruits thereof. > Sri Ramakrishna says 'A boat may be floating on water,but no water shuld be > allowed to get into it.Man may live in this world,but no worldly desire ought to > take possession of him. > > Hare Krishna. > > >balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: > >HARI AUM > >Dear Shree Abhilash, > >While going thru the blog you had referred I came >across this most widely quoted verse from Gita and its >explanation: > >karmany evadhikaras te >ma phaleshu kadacana >ma karma-phala-hetur bhur >ma te sango ’stv akarmani > >TRANSLATION: You have a right to perform your >prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the >fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of >the results of your activities, and never be attached >to not doing your duty. >~Gita2.47 > >I had noticed, invariably most of the explanations >reagrding the FRUITS of ACTION go like-but you are not >entitled to the fruits of action. > >I feel that a more apt explanation is -you have no >RIGHT to the fruits.Your RIGHT is to ACT only.- > >Now this does not mean that you should not think of >the fruits or are not entitled to it. Unless we have a >GOAL we cannot PLAN. Without a plan it amounts to >PURPOSELESS and tantamounts to DIRECTIONLESS >activity.I don't think Bhagavan ever meant it to be >so. Moreover the word used is 'adhikarasthe'. >The second line emphasises it by saying that -you are >not the AUTHOR (hetuh)of the result.-It is true and >logical too, since the result occurs in the FUTURE and >we have no way to access it. Also the factors that >affects to produce that RESULT in the FUTURE are >countless which definetly are beyond ordinary human >capacity. > >Welcoming inputs from more knowledgeable members of >this forum > >Regards > >Balagopal > > >NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA > > > > > > >--- Abhilash Nair <abhilash_ramachandran >wrote: > > > >Dear Balagopal, >Nice discussion you have brought up. > >I would also include the 64th sloka 2nd chapter, as >conveying the same mood of freedom. > >I had this on my blog... > >http://freebird18.blogspot.com/ > >Regards >Abhilash > >--- balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal >wrote: > > > >>HARI AUM >> >> >>During our waken life we have to keep taking >>decisions >>to keep moving. Most are taken sub consciously, >>without much effort,some out of sheer habits, and >>others due to the instincts we are born with-like we >>pull back from fire, runaway from dangers we fear >>facing..etc. >> >>Now this being the case we have choices too. (as >>Sartre said-freedom of choice is the despair of man) >> >>Has Bhagavan given us some clues? >> >>I think verse 22 in Chapter 5 of Gita can be used as >>the litmus test to make our selections. >> >>It is very simple, easy and very effective. >> >>I request to understand the powerful words he has >>used >>so selectively, aptly and very accurately in this >>verse. >> >>I hope those of you who are more familiar with the >>Gita and other scriptures will supplement into this. >> >> >>Regards >> >>Balagopal >> >>NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA >> >> >>Send instant messages to your online friends >>http://in.messenger. >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam >protection around > > > > > >Om Namo Narayanaya: > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Dear Mr. Sreenivas, Thanks for forwarding that site. It is an excellent site. om namo bhagavathe vasudevaaya! May God bless you and your family, Geetha. --- Satya Sreenivas Ramisetty <sreenivas_r wrote: > Dear All, > > This is an excellant site. There are lot of MP3 > downloads. Some in Malayalam and English. The > speechs are good. > > http://iish.org/ > > Om Namo Narayanaya > Sreenivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Dear Geetha, Thanks for your wishes. I am delighted. Every mail received from this group is a treasure for me. My thought process has changed a lot and I am getting more attracted towards Sri Krishna day by day. I always wanted to know more about hindu practices. Now I am lucky to be part of this group. I feel that every message is a devine message/blessings for me. Om Namo Narayanaya. Sreenivas - Mr Kris Chandran guruvayur Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:39 AM Re: [Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] litmus test Dear Mr. Sreenivas, Thanks for forwarding that site. It is an excellent site. om namo bhagavathe vasudevaaya! May God bless you and your family, Geetha. --- Satya Sreenivas Ramisetty <sreenivas_r wrote: > Dear All, > > This is an excellant site. There are lot of MP3 > downloads. Some in Malayalam and English. The > speechs are good. > > http://iish.org/ > > Om Namo Narayanaya > Sreenivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 HARI AUM Dear Shree Ahilash, I did not notice your address at all. The reason why I add the prefix 'shree' is to wish the person we address with all the 'SHREE'(PROSPERITY -MATERIAL, SPIRITUAL,PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL). By all means all of us in this forum shall treat each as their personal friend and can take the liberties too. I wholeheartedly welcome it. Hope others too will. The inputs by Shree Ganapathy Raman and Shree Abhilash were very enlightening. Coming to Bhakthi, can we not say that a person's depth and intensity of devotion is the outcome of his belief. Belief is in direct proportion to knowledge. So shouldn't one keep acquiring knowledge to stoke the fire of bhakthi which leads to bliss and moksha. So when Bhagavan said about Namasankeerthan, is it the first step or the ONLY step needed in this Kaliyug. With this sanction we are tempted to chant some names, kirtans etc and get away from the ardous, uncomfortable acts of acquiring Jnana. This also allows one to keep doing all the things even if they be in the wrong way (without right knowledge how are we going to correct and reform!!). I don't know if I have expressed myself. These are esoteric topics and calls for deeper study of the scriptures. Such lively exchange of ideas do certainly uplift all of us. Looking forward to more of such inputs Regards Balagopal NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA --- Abhilash Nair <abhilash_ramachandran wrote: > Dear Sri Balagopal, > Pardon me for talking to you like a friend in > previous > mails, by calling your name directly. Result of too > much of western influence. > > What you are saying definitely makes sense. Without > result what is the motivation to work? I am on the > same page with you. > > When we take the Gita in the hand we have to > understand that there are many people in this world > who are on different levels of existence, and each > might read and accept the Gita according to their > level. By the blessings of Vaishnavas I have > understood to some extend theoreticaly, though I am > personaly not on the level of this sloka. Even when > I > work, my attention is mostly on the fruits - " what > can I acheive by doing this " . > > If we explore the 3rd chapter - Karma Yoga, we can > see > how the Lord connects what you have said (working > with > attachment to results) to what this sloka states - > to > work without attachment. > > In the 3rd Chapter: > by 8th sloka L.Krishna establishes that action is > better than inaction or pre-mature renunciation. > > From 9th sloka to 16th sloka the Lord elaborates on > Karma-Kanda. In Karma-kanda, one is acting only to > gain material benefits, which is the goal. He has > mundane bhakti to different devi-devatas, so that by > pleasing them he can leave happily in this world and > the next (materialy). > > From the 17th to 29th sloka the Lord talks about > Nishkama Karma Yoga. Here one is not attached to the > fruits of action. One is in the perfected stage, > situated in spiritual bliss, and one acts as a duty, > to set the right example to society. One does not > crave for material pleasures, though he may be > acting > in the same way that a normal materialistic person > would. > > In 30th, the Lord talks of pure bhakti. Pure bhakti > happens when the Lord Himslef is reposed with all > our > fruits and our actions. The Lords hapiness is the > reason for our actions and all the fruits are > happily > given in the service of the Lord. One is ready to > even > break mundane scriptural instructions, for the > higher > purpose of pleasing the Lord. This is the first > sloka > in the Gita (2.30), where the Lord declares himself > as > the object of worship. > > Pls note, how the Lord gradualy builds up the theme > of > pure-bhakti, in this chapter, all the way from > Karma-Kanda. But, he does not explain further.... > For > more details on pure bhakti we need to get to the > 9th > chapter. > > Back to the topic: > > So inbetween these 2 - Karma Kanda and NishkAma > Karma > yoga, is where there is a category known as sakAma > karma yoga. In this stage, one is still attached to > the fruits of action, but one has the > preliminary/theoretical understanding that one is > not > the body; one is the soul - spirit. As one developes > more and more faith and as he becomes more and more > situated in the sublime spiritual platform, he moves > closer and closer towards Nishkama Karma Yoga. > > This Nishkama-Karma-Yoga is the level of existence > that the Lord talks about in the 2.47 sloka. > > Majority of the humans are in Karma-Kanda stage, > some > are in sakAma karma yoga stage. Hardly few are in > the > Nishkama and pure bhakti stage. So, it is but > natural > that we have asked this question - " what is the > motivation to act " ? > > I humbly, meekly accept that I am nowhere near this > point of being able to be indifferent to the fruits > of > actions. But, a sense of disconnect to matter, when > developed, helps us to act confidently and > un-biasedly > in all situations. It cannot be imposed artificialy. > > Hare Krishna > Abhilash > > > > > --- GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: > > > I agree in a way you are right.But there seems to > be > > an anomaly and defeat of > > purpose in this injunction of the Lord when He > > says Perform yor duty,but not claim to its > > fruits.Not an atom moves without a motive.Beings > are > > all busy either > > to gain something or to ward off something > > unwanted.In the absence of such a motive no action > > needs to be performed.But the Lord induces Arjuna > > not to be > > motivated and at the same time to be > intensively > > active.Yes.herein lies the > > turning point in life from Preyas to Sreyas.Good > > accrues from detachment and > > not from attachment.Karma in itself is no evil, > > but it becomes so when mixed up > > with desire.Desire tainted Karma gives > continuity > > to the wheel of birth and > > death.The seekers after heavenly enjoyments are > > also slaves to desire. > > Conquerers of desire are they who care not for > the > > fruits of Karma.Freedom from > > desire is the real freedom.When duty is > discharged > > untarnished by desire, > > clarity of understanding ensues.In addition to > it > > efficiency increases.Action > > therefore has to be performed perfectly by one > > unmindful of the fruits thereof. > > Sri Ramakrishna says 'A boat may be floating on > > water,but no water shuld be > > allowed to get into it.Man may live in this > > world,but no worldly desire ought to > > take possession of him. > > > > Hare Krishna. > > > > > > balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal > wrote: > > > > HARI AUM > > > > Dear Shree Abhilash, > > > > While going thru the blog you had referred I came > > across this most widely quoted verse from Gita and > > its > > explanation: > > > > karmany evadhikaras te > > ma phaleshu kadacana > > ma karma-phala-hetur bhur > > ma te sango ’stv akarmani > > > > TRANSLATION: You have a right to perform your > > prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the > > fruits of action. Never consider yourself the > cause > > of > > the results of your activities, and never be > > attached > > to not doing your duty. > > ~Gita2.47 > > > > I had noticed, invariably most of the > explanations > > reagrding the FRUITS of ACTION go like-but you are > > not > > entitled to the fruits of action. > > > > I feel that a more apt explanation is -you have no > > RIGHT to the fruits.Your RIGHT is to ACT only.- > > > > Now this does not mean that you should not think > of > > the fruits or are not entitled to it. Unless we > have > === message truncated === Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. <br><br> Stay connected with your friends even when away from PC. Link: http://in.mobile./new/messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 HARI AUM Shree Gopalakrishna has very beautifully expressed the concept of DUTY. Let me add a few lines to this: If we take the example of FIRE, what could be its DHARMA? I think it is to give out light, heat and/or both. The moment the FIRE does not abide by any of these, it ceases to act its DHARMA and thereby fails to perform its DUTY and does not deserve to be called FIRE. Similarly we human being has a nature which calls for us to perform as our DHARMA. Pondering over the DHARMA I came across this biblical statement to be somewhat closer : DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU WANT OTHERS DO UNTO YOU. This is generally known as the Golden Rule. Regards Balagopal NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA --- " K.V Gopalakrishna " <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: > Dear al.l. > Performing one's duty without expecting any fruits > of action. A very > difficult process indeed. It is said that even a > fool will not indulge > in any action without ascertaining what are the > returns he is goiung to > get. While being so, to do one's duty and assign the > fruits to the Lord, > which is the essense of Karma Yoga is extremely > difficult to practise. > > Secondly, what is the definition of duty? when the > Bhagavadgita was > preached by the Lord to Arjuna, the duty which was > preached to Arjuna > was the duty or Swadharma of a Kshatriya. He has > also said, > " Chathurvarnyam Maya Srishtam gunakarmavibhagasah " > In other words, the > four Varnas were created by Him on the basis of the > preponderance of the > Three Gunas, Sattvam, Rajas and Tamas, and also the > professions people > were performing. Karma was defined as " Nithya, > Naimittika and > Prayaschittha " . So, one was supposed to follow his > swadharma as spelt > out by the Varna he was placed. Fine. > > What is today's definition of duty ? His durty as an > engineer, or > doctor, or operator or driver. How can one follow > the Gita dictum. > " Karmanyeva adhikarasthe, na phaleshu kadachana " , > when the son is > waiting for father's salary to pay school fees, and > the wife is waiting > to buy grocery?. I have practised this dictum > throughout my career. I > was doing the jobs whatever my boss asked me to do > or whatever was > demanded by my job description. Never thought of > getting a promotion or > asked for a salary increase, or debated with the > boss why the other man > got a promotion before me when we both were doing > the same job and our > job-ratings were also the same. Net result--- It > took me 20 years to get > a promotion when others took only 5 years. I said, > " doesn't matter- I > still stuck to my principles " . That is the only > satisfaction which I > got, but I found that this satisfaction was > ever-lasting, though I might > have got few rupees lesser than my competitors on > the job. I never > regretted. > > In the present day society where people have to put > up " Udara-nimittham > .bahukritha-vesham " , the so-called swadharma , as > pointed out by many > saints like Swami Vivekananda, Swami Chinmayananda, > Swami Tapasyananda > and many others, has to be defined as righteous > behavior, whatever > applicable to the person, as he considers fit. He > has to tailor his > needs and actions according to that. The only thing > one has to remember > and practise is that anything done without resorting > to unjust means or > accepting bribery should be considered as Dharma. If > one does that and > leaves the rest to God, he would become a Karma > Yogi. > > Finally, Karma Yoga yields only purity of mind. Not > direct salvation. If > one is aspiring for salvation, he should then follow > Jnana-yoga or > Bhakti-yoga. Jana-yoga is again difficult to get > results. The Lord > HImself has said " Bahoonam Janmanam anthe Jnanavan > mam prapadyate " ( > After many many transmigratory cycles, the man of > knowledge reaches > Me " .) So the best is Bhakti-yoga which is the > easiest to practise and > sure of getting results. Bhakti is very much related > to Vairagya or > renunciation, but the one who practices Bhakti-yoga > will automatically > develop renunciation and the " I-ness " and " My-ness " > will vanish while > Bhakti reaches its zenith. Unless renunciation > comes, self-realisation > is impossible. > > Warmest regards > K.V. Gopalakrishna. > > GANAPATHY RAMAN wrote: > > >I agree in a way you are right.But there seems to > be an anomaly and defeat of > > purpose in this injunction of the Lord when He > says Perform yor duty,but not claim to its > fruits.Not an atom moves without a motive.Beings are > all busy either > > to gain something or to ward off something > unwanted.In the absence of such a motive no action > needs to be performed.But the Lord induces Arjuna > not to be > > motivated and at the same time to be intensively > active.Yes.herein lies the > > turning point in life from Preyas to Sreyas.Good > accrues from detachment and > > not from attachment.Karma in itself is no evil, > but it becomes so when mixed up > > with desire.Desire tainted Karma gives continuity > to the wheel of birth and > > death.The seekers after heavenly enjoyments are > also slaves to desire. > > Conquerers of desire are they who care not for > the fruits of Karma.Freedom from > > desire is the real freedom.When duty is > discharged untarnished by desire, > > clarity of understanding ensues.In addition to it > efficiency increases.Action > > therefore has to be performed perfectly by one > unmindful of the fruits thereof. > > Sri Ramakrishna says 'A boat may be floating on > water,but no water shuld be > > allowed to get into it.Man may live in this > world,but no worldly desire ought to > > take possession of him. > > > > Hare Krishna. > > > > > >balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: > > > >HARI AUM > > > >Dear Shree Abhilash, > > > >While going thru the blog you had referred I came > >across this most widely quoted verse from Gita and > its > >explanation: > > > >karmany evadhikaras te > >ma phaleshu kadacana > >ma karma-phala-hetur bhur > >ma te sango ’stv akarmani > > > >TRANSLATION: You have a right to perform your > >prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the > >fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause > of > >the results of your activities, and never be > attached > >to not doing your duty. > >~Gita2.47 > > > >I had noticed, invariably most of the explanations > >reagrding the FRUITS of ACTION go like-but you are > not > >entitled to the fruits of action. > > > >I feel that a more apt explanation is -you have no > >RIGHT to the fruits.Your RIGHT is to ACT only.- > > > >Now this does not mean that you should not think of > >the fruits or are not entitled to it. Unless we > have a > >GOAL we cannot PLAN. Without a plan it amounts to > >PURPOSELESS and tantamounts to DIRECTIONLESS > >activity.I don't think Bhagavan ever meant it to be > >so. Moreover the word used is 'adhikarasthe'. > >The second line emphasises it by saying that -you > are > >not the AUTHOR (hetuh)of the result.-It is true and > >logical too, since the result occurs in the FUTURE > and > >we have no way to access it. Also the factors that > >affects to produce that RESULT in the FUTURE are > >countless which definetly are beyond ordinary human > >capacity. > > > >Welcoming inputs from more knowledgeable members of > >this forum > > > >Regards > > > >Balagopal > > > > > === message truncated === Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. <br><br> Stay connected with your friends even when away from PC. Link: http://in.mobile./new/messenger/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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