Guest guest Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Hari OM! Dear Sir, Great artcile! bow to you because Guruvayurappan in you makes you write this. In this context I remember another story of Mahabharatham, like when Krishna want to go for sometime away from Pandavas, all the 5 brother's objects, Dharmaputra want to use his rationality to stop the Lord, Arjuna fell at Lord's feet and begged not to move away from them even though it is temprary for a few days, Bheema want to use his strength physcally! hahaha what a joke is it not. the Strength in Bheema itself is Guruvayoorappan is it not!, Sahadeva tried to use his strength in control of other's to stop Krishna, but Nakula was smiling and started meditating lovingly with all his Bhakthi. Can you imagine what happened, Krishna was able to overcome all the 4 other Brother's except Nakula, The beloved Lord says, Hey Nakula, please untie me now at least temporarily, when your love for me and the devotion for me is standing infront I cannot move an inch! So all the sincere Devotees are gifs from God himself or they are HE alone. no one else. I bow to all the great Bhaktas in this group.in the name of the Lord. And another thing we have to learn from Narada Bhakthi sutras is, like, only the path of devotion never makes one to linger in their Vanity. because study of Vedanta with out devotion comes as Vanity. like I heard people sounding. I have finished Upanishads, almost finishig Bhagawad Geetha, and started Vashista Yoga will finish soon.... whatever it may be are all this knowledge finished your vanity the ego?? that is the question. So Bhakthi we will be always having Vinayam! all Bhagwan ntee Kripa kondu mathram. njan verum oru upakarnam mathram in his hands. Like the flute in his hands, with 9 holes, we all humans are the flute in his hands, when he stops playing flute we are only " Oddas " no use! so enjoy the big show of Bhagwan! by holding on to him oru " Shruthi pole Bhagwan ennennum ella Bhaktharude manasillum vilayatte " ennu prarthichu kondu talkalam nirthunu. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 6/23/06, GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: Let us carefully dive into the minds and hearts of numerous devotees,who proclaim their devotion to God with complacency and pride.In most cases the devotion will be found to be a bargain.God,give so much temporal benefit and the devotee to offer his namaskarams,archanas,vazhipadus etc in return.Most people frankly declare that in case of the benefit being reaped,the devotion will be confirmed and the proposed offerings etc will be done.Is this Bhakthy?But at the same time it can't be denied this is how devotion starts,is made to start or can start in the vast majority of cases.No objection can be made to rudimentary bhakthy being so crude.But it would be pitiable indeed if bhakthy should continue to be so crude,after the early stages and days are passed.It is ok in the beginning.The child throws away its teething ring,trundle hoop and spring toys,one after another.So shuld a bhaktha soon recognizes the absurdity of resorting to God merely to pull out one's earthly chestnuts from the fire.God is not to be bargained with and God knows what is really good for a devotee better than the devotee.Regard for God beginning with gratitude for one or more extraordinary acts of help must turn into Love,the love of a child to its mother touched into sublimity by dim perception of Infinite Power,Wisdom etc in the unseen Universal Being.Failure to advance will be not mere stagnation but descent into lower and lower levels. Let us consider the evil effects of continuous looking to God for earthly benefits. Our longing for earthly benefits gets strengthened ie. rajas and tamas get more and more to predominate in our nature,clouding the satwa and even temporarily banishing it from us.The evils of tamas and rajas rise up at once.A bit of disappointment makes us angry with God that we hv just worshipped for earthly objects alone and we even tempt to break our idols and gods and become some type of agnostics.If we but worshipped God in the correct spirit ,nor in terms of dictation but with humble submission,recognizing the possibility that the All-wise Mother-God might deem it better to disappoint us and make us suffer in the present,to wipe off old karmic accounts,to develop the satwic side of our nature and to fit us perhaps for the position decreed by Supreme Wisdom and mercy.The Omnipotent,Omniscient and Universal Father-Mother provides for the present and future of innumerable creatures with apparently conflicting interests and may make use of us as His instruments or even as agents to carry out His high decrees.It is for the devotees to submit their wills and be receptive.If we are in this proper mood,prayers are found to be needless assertion of ego,not promoting but retarding our real progress. After the Great War of Kurukshetra Lord Krishna happened to see Kunti and asked her what boon she wanted.Kunti in her humility replied that she shuld always be given troubles so that she could always remember Him or else she would forget Him.Such is the real position of a bhaktha.Let us recognize that our notions of God are really abstractions and that it is wise not to ignore and lose the concrete manifestations of God before us in trying to clutch at abstractions that are so elusive.We must always remember that the Creator can't be purchased by our promises to do this and that if we get this and that and if we think it is only obnoxious and rubbish.By that we may be able to satisfy our ego complexioned mind but that won't hv any effect on the course which God has decided.Only love,dedication and surrender without reservations can fetch the ardent devotee His Grace after putting him into lot of trials and tribulations and make him choke and if the devotion is true there be no doubt he will be saved at the right time by the Mercy of the Creator. This is the experience of everso many devotees in the past,present and of course the same will be in the future too.There is no incident that an ardent devotee failed to get His mercy and Grace in times of distress.May that Bhakthy cult grow. Hare Krishna, agraman. India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click hereCatch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here -- Krishna Prasad Dare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know.If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!"Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Dear Shri. Ganapathy Raman and others, Radhe Krishna! My experience and belief clearly say that one should never be complacent with the favours we receive from the Lord. When we are alive, we receive only temporal benefits in return to whatever prayers we make(as believed to be), but the lasting favour is received only when we depart from this world, when the para-purushartha of Sayujyam is conferred on the devotee. Unfortunately, there is no means of knowing this accomplishment and telling others about it, as once Sayujyam is reached, he is one with the Lord, and does not get a chance to return and tell about his experience to others.. The socalled trials and tribulations of life are products of our own Karma, and not given by the Lord. The Lord gives only love and blessings to his devotees. But for one who thinks of Him, prays to Him all the time, the Lord is ever ready to help him. This does not mean that one should be doing Pooja all the time, but nothing stops from thinking of Him. An ardent Bhakta should think of Him when he eats, walks, does his daily chores, and all the time. Somebody asked a Swamiji, " Swamiji, can I smoke when I pray? " Swamiji said, " First of all, you should not smoke, and never smoke when you pray " . The next question came, " In that case, Swamiji, Smoking has become my habit. I cannot stop it. But can I pray when I smoke? " Swamiji was flabbergasted. He finally answered, " Son, you can think of God all the time. Never mind what other thing you are doing. But think of Him all the time. " This night look to be a joke, but one cannot stop the mind if it thinks of God all the time. On the contrary, the Lord will come to the rescue in times of trouble, only if one thinks of Him all the time.. I need not remind about " Ananyaschinthayantho mam, ye janah paryupasathe, thesham nithyabhiyukthanam yogakshemam vahamyaham " . Glory to the Lord! Love K.V. Gopalakrishna GANAPATHY RAMAN wrote: > Let us carefully dive into the minds and hearts of numerous devotees,who > proclaim their devotion to God with complacency and pride.In most > cases the > devotion will be found to be a bargain.God,give so much temporal > benefit and the > devotee to offer his namaskarams,archanas,vazhipadus etc in > return.Most people frankly declare that in case of the benefit being > reaped,the devotion will be confirmed and the proposed offerings etc > will be done.Is this Bhakthy?But at the same time it can't be denied > this is how devotion starts,is made to start or > can start in the vast majority of cases.No objection can be made to > rudimentary > bhakthy being so crude.But it would be pitiable indeed if bhakthy > should continue to be so crude,after the early stages and days are > passed.It is ok in the beginning.The child throws away its teething > ring,trundle hoop and spring > toys,one after another.So shuld a bhaktha soon recognizes the absurdity of > resorting to God merely to pull out one's earthly chestnuts from the > fire.God > is not to be bargained with and God knows what is really good for a > devotee > better than the devotee.Regard for God beginning with gratitude for > one or more > extraordinary acts of help must turn into Love,the love of a child to > its mother > touched into sublimity by dim perception of Infinite Power,Wisdom etc > in the > unseen Universal Being.Failure to advance will be not mere stagnation but > descent into lower and lower levels. > > Let us consider the evil effects of continuous looking to God for > earthly benefits. > Our longing for earthly benefits gets strengthened ie. rajas and tamas > get more > and more to predominate in our nature,clouding the satwa and even > temporarily > banishing it from us.The evils of tamas and rajas rise up at once.A bit of > disappointment makes us angry with God that we hv just worshipped for > earthly > objects alone and we even tempt to break our idols and gods and become > some type of agnostics.If we but worshipped God in the correct spirit > ,nor in terms of > dictation but with humble submission,recognizing the possibility that > the All-wise Mother-God might deem it better to disappoint us and make > us suffer > in the present,to wipe off old karmic accounts,to develop the satwic > side of our > nature and to fit us perhaps for the position decreed by Supreme > Wisdom and > mercy.The Omnipotent,Omniscient and Universal Father-Mother provides > for the > present and future of innumerable creatures with apparently > conflicting interests > and may make use of us as His instruments or even as agents to carry > out His > high decrees.It is for the devotees to submit their wills and be > receptive.If we are > in this proper mood,prayers are found to be needless assertion of ego,not > promoting but retarding our real progress. > > After the Great War of Kurukshetra Lord Krishna happened to see Kunti > and asked her what boon she wanted.Kunti in her humility replied that > she shuld > always be given troubles so that she could always remember Him or else she > would forget Him.Such is the real position of a bhaktha.Let us > recognize that > our notions of God are really abstractions and that it is wise not to > ignore and > lose the concrete manifestations of God before us in trying to clutch at > abstractions that are so elusive.We must always remember that the Creator > can't be purchased by our promises to do this and that if we get this > and that > and if we think it is only obnoxious and rubbish.By that we may be able to > satisfy our ego complexioned mind but that won't hv any effect on the > course > which God has decided.Only love,dedication and surrender without > reservations > can fetch the ardent devotee His Grace after putting him into lot of > trials and > tribulations and make him choke and if the devotion is true there be > no doubt > he will be saved at the right time by the Mercy of the Creator. This > is the > experience of everso many devotees in the past,present and of course > the same will be in the future too.There is no incident that an ardent > devotee failed to get > His mercy and Grace in times of distress.May that Bhakthy cult grow. > > Hare Krishna, > > agraman. > > ------ > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click > here > <http://us.rd./mail/in/mailanswersshare/*http://in.answers./> > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here > <http://us.rd./mail/in/mailfifa/*http://in.sports./football/fo\ otball_fifa.html> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Well said Gopalakrishnan! I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the following sloka from Gita. Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjunaaatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha Krishna says, 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the seeker after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for knowledge and the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God prays for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth or child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not already acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not fulfilled.This is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from those who face disappointments in life.Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type of devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani later, elevated to the status of dhruva star. The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when in distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch faith that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as mahavisvasam ,among the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for worldly pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life which alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life we do not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of the word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds of devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this. A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord Siva happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that the man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate. Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said that they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma being a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him Siva said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she should save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy without realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which the man was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did not have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A jignasu loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana which the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through someone as He did for Parikshit. The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth about the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both bhakthas and jnanis. Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya, 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously dropping oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, remembrance, smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus DHruvAsmrthi is prescribed as the means of liberation Saroja Ramanujam . May god bless you, Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit. Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Dear Mataji, Radhe Krishna! I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what Shri Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it is a fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he has been longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising his ego level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has acquired is by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word " also " because many people think that one's hard work was responsible for his upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor and the efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to reiterate here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one wants to come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the efficacy of the medicine play a very important part in curing the disease. But all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without that, no medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. People have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens without realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own Karma. Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is required. " Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave! " Promising to perform a particular " vazhipadu " to God if He favours etc., like performing a " Tulabharam " if one gets cured of his ailment etc., is an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise and cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured because of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is the person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other cured him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. But what He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone. Regards KVG. Saroja Ramanujam wrote: > Well said Gopalakrishnan! > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the following > sloka from Gita. > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha > Krishna says, > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the seeker > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for knowledge and > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God prays > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth or > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not already > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not fulfilled.This > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from those > who face disappointments in life. > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type of > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani later, > elevated to the status of dhruva star. > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when in > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch faith > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as mahavisvasam ,among > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for worldly > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life which > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life we do > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of the > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds of > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this. > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord Siva > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that the > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate. > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said that > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma being > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him Siva > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she should > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy without > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which the man > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did not > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of life > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that could > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to acertain > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A jignasu > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana which > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through someone > as He did for Parikshit. > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth about > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both bhakthas > and jnanis. > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya, > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously dropping > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, remembrance, > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus DHruvAsmrthi is > prescribed as the means of liberation > > > Saroja Ramanujam > > > > . > > > > > May god bless you, > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit. > > > ------ > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents./handraise\ rs> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Om Namo Narayanaya A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed it would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various employee. We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh community where free service is also an offering. The give and take concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if the Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently when some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do this and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc.. I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good members in our forum. Narayana Narayana..... Pravin guruvayur , " K.V Gopalakrishna " <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: > > Dear Mataji, > Radhe Krishna! > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what Shri > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it is a > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he has been > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising his ego > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has acquired is > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word " also " > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible for his > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor and the > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to reiterate > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one wants to > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the efficacy > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the disease. But > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without that, no > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. People > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens without > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own Karma. > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is required. > " Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave! " > > Promising to perform a particular " vazhipadu " to God if He favours etc., > like performing a " Tulabharam " if one gets cured of his ailment etc., is > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise and > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured because > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is the > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other cured > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. But what > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone. > > Regards > KVG. > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote: > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan! > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the following > > sloka from Gita. > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha > > Krishna says, > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the seeker > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for knowledge and > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God prays > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth or > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not already > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not fulfilled.This > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from those > > who face disappointments in life. > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type of > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani later, > > elevated to the status of dhruva star. > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when in > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch faith > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as mahavisvasam ,among > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for worldly > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life which > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life we do > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of the > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds of > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this. > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord Siva > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that the > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate. > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said that > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma being > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him Siva > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she should > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy without > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which the man > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did not > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of life > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that could > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to acertain > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A jignasu > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana which > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through someone > > as He did for Parikshit. > > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth about > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both bhakthas > > and jnanis. > > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya, > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously dropping > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, remembrance, > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus DHruvAsmrthi is > > prescribed as the means of liberation > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > May god bless you, > > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit. > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co m/handraisers> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Dear Pravin, Radhe Krishna! Your point is very valid. It is said that when one goes to see god, children, old people and sick ones, one should not go empty-handed. the same principle applies when one visits Guruvayoorappan also. One can put money in the Hundi which will go for the upkeep and day to day expenses of the temple, feeding poor devotees, and so on and so forth. One can perform vazhipadus as token of one's Bhakti which the Lord will be only too pleased to accept. Unbelievers do ask questions like " God does not accept your gifts physically, nor does He take any neivedyam you offer, so why take to Him? " This is no argument. Because, although God has not physically eaten all the Prasadam, He has blessed it, and any devotee who eats that Prasadam will certainly be benefitted. There are, stories in our mythology that He has physically accepted and eaten the neivedyam when the Unni Namboodiri who was too innocent cried. Similary, one may argue that God is the giver to all. He is the creator. How can one offer to Him, the same things He has created ? One should remember that it is not just the material value of the offering that counts; it is the Bhakti which goes along with that. Has He not said in Bhagavad gita to Arjuna and in Bhagavatam to Uddhava and Kuchela, " Patram Pushpam Phalam Toyam, yo me Bhaktya prayacchati, thadaham bhaktyupahritam asnami prayatatmanaha " . (Whoever offers me with love, a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or even water, I accept and enjoy that offering of love by that man of purified intellect.)..Does He not know that all the four commodities He has listed were created by Him?. Did He not grab what Kuchela was hiding under his arm-pit, being too shy to offer the beaten rice he had brought? Did He not eat that beaten rice that Bhakta had brought, with avarice, as if He has not seen beaten rice before? and that too, that beaten rice bundled up in a rag and soaked in Kuchela's sweat? Does it not show His love and fondness for His devotees? For the Lord, nothing is more important than the devotee, and nothing dearer than devotion, which is the most intense form of love.( Prematmaka-bhakti.) So there is nothing absolutely wrong in making offerings to God What I meant as inferior form of Bhakti was the devotee promising the Lord, " Lord! Cure my child's sickness-- I will offer you Tulabharam-- " Many people do, do this sort of promise without thinking that they are trying to barter with the Lord! One can't blame them, as it has become part of our culture, under the name of " nercha " , which, to me, looks odd. Love KVG. hba9331 wrote: > Om Namo Narayanaya > A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various > questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have > > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does > not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those > goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed it > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various employee. > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh > community where free service is also an offering. The give and take > concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the > day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if the > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently when > some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a > child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would > not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do this > and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc.. > > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good > members in our forum. > > Narayana Narayana..... > > Pravin > > guruvayur <guruvayur%40>, > " K.V Gopalakrishna " > <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: > > > > Dear Mataji, > > Radhe Krishna! > > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what > Shri > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it is > a > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he > has been > > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising > his ego > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has > acquired is > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word " also " > > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible for > his > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor > and the > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to > reiterate > > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one wants > to > > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the > efficacy > > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the > disease. But > > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without > that, no > > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. > People > > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens without > > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own > Karma. > > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is > required. > > " Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave! " > > > > Promising to perform a particular " vazhipadu " to God if He favours > etc., > > like performing a " Tulabharam " if one gets cured of his ailment > etc., is > > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise > and > > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured > because > > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is > the > > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other > cured > > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. > But what > > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone. > > > > Regards > > KVG. > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote: > > > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan! > > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the > following > > > sloka from Gita. > > > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna > > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha > > > Krishna says, > > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the > seeker > > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for > knowledge and > > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God > prays > > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth > or > > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his > > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not > already > > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not > fulfilled.This > > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from > those > > > who face disappointments in life. > > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type > of > > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his > > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani > later, > > > elevated to the status of dhruva star. > > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when > in > > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch > faith > > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as > mahavisvasam ,among > > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for > worldly > > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life > which > > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life > we do > > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of > the > > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds > of > > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this. > > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord > Siva > > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that > the > > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate. > > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said > that > > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma > being > > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him > Siva > > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she > should > > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy > without > > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which > the man > > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did > not > > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death > > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the > pleasures > > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing > that > > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and > to > > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of > Bhakthi. A > > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of > life > > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > could > > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > acertain > > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > jignasu > > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana > which > > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through > someone > > > as He did for Parikshit. > > > > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth > about > > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both > bhakthas > > > and jnanis. > > > > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya, > > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously > dropping > > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, > remembrance, > > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus > DHruvAsmrthi is > > > prescribed as the means of liberation > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May god bless you, > > > > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in > sanskrit. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co> > m/handraisers> > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc money is required but the point is who are the persons chalking out the various vazhipadus and fixing rates?The temple authorities and not God.If the temple authorities say that to run the temple money is required and hence donate your might they won't get much but if they exhibit in boards that such and such vazhipadus can bring this and that benefit people are glad to contribute whether the same materialises or not and so the authorities are trying to display a long list to collect funds in this way which has nothing to do with Bhakthy or God.This trend has become in vogue during the past decades only.Centuries back there were no such things. Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati attract devotees in millions and in this way the coffers also can overflow by the so called vazhipadus.A devotee is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar or plantain or anything by paying the rates fixed by the administration thinking that God is pleased with his offering, and the administration is happy that their bank balances increase which can be utilised and misutilised for various things.This is actually what is happening in big temples.On the otherhand there are innumerable temples which don't hv any income even to offer neivedyam to the Deity or having enough oil even to light the lamps.Why the devotees don't flock to those temples also and do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can see the light of the day.Is Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha sits only in Sabarimalai when the all pervading God is in every atom and every idol why some temples flourish and some suffer?Does that mean that people who go to those less fortunate temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a custom that everyday whatever money and other offerings come will be accounted before the Deity in the night but it is not known how the money is being spent and whether the Deity gives permission for all the expenses?There was even an attempt years back that the amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds thereby diverting the funds of the temple but due to the protest of the devotees the idea was shelved. There is noting wrong in collecting money for the administration of temple by means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected with Bhakthy as there is no sanction from the Deity for the same and it is only the temple administration fixes the same.Years back in GVR udayasthamana pooja was fixed at Rs.5000 but now I don't know the amount but certainly it must be 50000 and what is the guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The temple administration members enjoy in all comforts from the so called collections and that too everybody knows.Then how this collection can be linked to ardent Bhakthy?Did the Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration to collect so much money? So in the name of God all these are made.In a country like India with more than a billion people there is always the tendency to resort to superstitions in beliefs and the eagerness to know abt the future thru astrology.If there is something wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an ashtamangalya prasna is conducted.The astrologers say that God is furious because the surroundings are polluted and the devotees are not havig proper devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When the same is said by media and people nobody bothers and when the astrologers say that God is angry immedately steps are taken to ward off evils supposed to happen if the same are not done.Are they not looking funny? My intention is not to fnd fault with anything that is going on which everybody knows but the pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha such things appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae suffering for lack of funs why certain important temples alone take the cakes when we accept that God is everywhere.There is no explanation for this anamoly and the same will continue. So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple coffers can be filled up but not lead one to Real Bhakthy.Was there such a system during the days of Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days they had so much love and devotion to God and never bothered abt other things..Now the trend has changed and money takes the upper hand over Real Bhakthy.What a pity? If anybody is offended by these comments I express regret as I hv only stated what I felt and to enforce the fact that Bhakthy has nothing to do with the so called offerings and the same depends on individual choices and not on the choice of people running temple administration. Hare Krishna. hba9331 <pravin9 wrote: Om Namo NarayanayaA very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various questions coming up in our mind...one such question I haveIt was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed it would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various employee. We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh community where free service is also an offering. The give and take concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if the Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently when some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do this and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc..I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good members in our forum.Narayana Narayana.....Pravinguruvayur , "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv wrote:>> Dear Mataji,> Radhe Krishna!> > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what Shri > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it is a > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he has been > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising his ego > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has acquired is > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word "also" > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible for his > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor and the > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to reiterate > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one wants to > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the efficacy > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the disease. But > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without that, no > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. People > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens without > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own Karma. > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is required. > "Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave!"> > Promising to perform a particular "vazhipadu" to God if He favours etc., > like performing a "Tulabharam" if one gets cured of his ailment etc., is > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise and > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured because > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is the > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other cured > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. But what > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone.> > Regards> KVG.> > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote:> > > Well said Gopalakrishnan!> > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the following > > sloka from Gita.> > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna> > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha> > Krishna says,> > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the seeker > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for knowledge and > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God prays > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth or > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not already > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not fulfilled.This > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from those > > who face disappointments in life.> > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type of > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani later, > > elevated to the status of dhruva star.> > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when in > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch faith > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as mahavisvasam ,among > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for worldly > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life which > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life we do > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of the > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds of > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this.> > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord Siva > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that the > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate. > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said that > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma being > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him Siva > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she should > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy without > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which the man > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did not > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death> > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of life > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that could > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to acertain > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A jignasu > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana which > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through someone > > as He did for Parikshit.> > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth about > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both bhakthas > > and jnanis.> > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya,> > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously dropping > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, remembrance, > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus DHruvAsmrthi is > > prescribed as the means of liberation> > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam> >> > > >> > .> >> >> >> >> > May god bless you,> > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit.> > > >> > --------------------------------> > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents./handraisers> > >> >> India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Bravo! Ganapathy Raman, . I totally agree with you. In my opinion praying to God that I will put money in your hundi , for instance, if I get this result is tantamount to makingHim a commission agent.But we cannot criticise those who pray in dire circumstances tht they will do thulabhara when the child get well etc. because they just want to do it as a thanksgiving to Lord for answering their prayers.They belong to 'aarthee' category.As far as I am concerned I always pray that I will read Narayaneeyam or Sundarakandam at one sitting or something like that.When I go to the temple I do whatever I can in the way of offering . This reminds one of Prahladha who, Mukkur Lakshmi narasimhachariar used to say in his discourses, when the Lord asked what boon he wanted , said "I am not a trader and I do not want anything except cotinous devotion to You." God is where you think He is because He is everywhere. Saroja RamanujamGANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc money is required but the point is who are the persons chalking out the various vazhipadus and fixing rates?The temple authorities and not God.If the temple authorities say that to run the temple money is required and hence donate your might they won't get much but if they exhibit in boards that such and such vazhipadus can bring this and that benefit people are glad to contribute whether the same materialises or not and so the authorities are trying to display a long list to collect funds in this way which has nothing to do with Bhakthy or God.This trend has become in vogue during the past decades only.Centuries back there were no such things. Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati attract devotees in millions and in this way the coffers also can overflow by the so called vazhipadus.A devotee is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar or plantain or anything by paying the rates fixed by the administration thinking that God is pleased with his offering, and the administration is happy that their bank balances increase which can be utilised and misutilised for various things.This is actually what is happening in big temples.On the otherhand there are innumerable temples which don't hv any income even to offer neivedyam to the Deity or having enough oil even to light the lamps.Why the devotees don't flock to those temples also and do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can see the light of the day.Is Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha sits only in Sabarimalai when the all pervading God is in every atom and every idol why some temples flourish and some suffer?Does that mean that people who go to those less fortunate temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a custom that everyday whatever money and other offerings come will be accounted before the Deity in the night but it is not known how the money is being spent and whether the Deity gives permission for all the expenses?There was even an attempt years back that the amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds thereby diverting the funds of the temple but due to the protest of the devotees the idea was shelved. There is noting wrong in collecting money for the administration of temple by means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected with Bhakthy as there is no sanction from the Deity for the same and it is only the temple administration fixes the same.Years back in GVR udayasthamana pooja was fixed at Rs.5000 but now I don't know the amount but certainly it must be 50000 and what is the guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The temple administration members enjoy in all comforts from the so called collections and that too everybody knows.Then how this collection can be linked to ardent Bhakthy?Did the Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration to collect so much money? So in the name of God all these are made.In a country like India with more than a billion people there is always the tendency to resort to superstitions in beliefs and the eagerness to know abt the future thru astrology.If there is something wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an ashtamangalya prasna is conducted.The astrologers say that God is furious because the surroundings are polluted and the devotees are not havig proper devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When the same is said by media and people nobody bothers and when the astrologers say that God is angry immedately steps are taken to ward off evils supposed to happen if the same are not done.Are they not looking funny? My intention is not to fnd fault with anything that is going on which everybody knows but the pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha such things appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae suffering for lack of funs why certain important temples alone take the cakes when we accept that God is everywhere.There is no explanation for this anamoly and the same will continue. So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple coffers can be filled up but not lead one to Real Bhakthy.Was there such a system during the days of Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days they had so much love and devotion to God and never bothered abt other things..Now the trend has changed and money takes the upper hand over Real Bhakthy.What a pity? If anybody is offended by these comments I express regret as I hv only stated what I felt and to enforce the fact that Bhakthy has nothing to do with the so called offerings and the same depends on individual choices and not on the choice of people running temple administration. Hare Krishna. hba9331 <pravin9 wrote: Om Namo NarayanayaA very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various questions coming up in our mind...one such question I haveIt was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed it would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various employee. We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh community where free service is also an offering. The give and take concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if the Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently when some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do this and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc..I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good members in our forum.Narayana Narayana.....Pravinguruvayur , "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv wrote:>> Dear Mataji,> Radhe Krishna!> > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what Shri > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it is a > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he has been > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising his ego > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has acquired is > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word "also" > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible for his > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor and the > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to reiterate > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one wants to > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the efficacy > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the disease. But > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without that, no > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. People > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens without > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own Karma. > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is required. > "Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave!"> > Promising to perform a particular "vazhipadu" to God if He favours etc., > like performing a "Tulabharam" if one gets cured of his ailment etc., is > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise and > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured because > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is the > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other cured > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. But what > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone.> > Regards> KVG.> > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote:> > > Well said Gopalakrishnan!> > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the following > > sloka from Gita.> > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna> > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha> > Krishna says,> > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the seeker > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for knowledge and > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God prays > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth or > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not already > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not fulfilled.This > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from those > > who face disappointments in life.> > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type of > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani later, > > elevated to the status of dhruva star.> > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when in > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch faith > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as mahavisvasam ,among > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for worldly > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life which > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life we do > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of the > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds of > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this.> > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord Siva > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that the > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate. > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said that > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma being > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him Siva > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she should > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy without > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which the man > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did not > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death> > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of life > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that could > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to acertain > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A jignasu > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana which > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through someone > > as He did for Parikshit.> > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth about > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both bhakthas > > and jnanis.> > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya,> > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously dropping > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, remembrance, > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus DHruvAsmrthi is > > prescribed as the means of liberation> > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam> >> > > >> > .> >> >> >> >> > May god bless you,> > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit.> > > >> > --------------------------------> > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents./handraisers> > >> >> India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click hereCatch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here May god bless you, Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit. Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Definition of unalloyed bhakti. anyAbhilAs.itA-s'unyam jnAna-karmAdy-anAvrtam anukUlyena kris.nAnu- s'Ilanam bhaktir uttamA “One should render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord Krishna favorably and without desire for material profit or gain through fruitive activities or philosophical speculation. That is called pure devotional service.” Bhakti-rasAmrta-sindhu 1.1.11 of Rupa Goswami (the foremost of Sri Chaitanya's direct disciples. One among the famous 6 goswamis of Vrindavan) Dear Pravin, Karseva is also an important part of bhakti. Bhakti means devotional service. Service is so important aspect of bhakti. Service to the holy name and prasadam is done with the tongue. This is the beginning of all services. Voluntary services like cleaning the temple and keeping the shoes of devotees, cooking for the Lord and devotees etc shoul be encouraged. Thankyou for bringing up this nice angle. Hare Krishna Abhilash --- hba9331 <pravin9 wrote: > Om Namo Narayanaya > A very good topic to discuss on this forum. > Everybody should > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be > various > questions coming up in our mind...one such question > I have > > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that > Guruvayoor does > not need any of our material offerings in cash or > kind, all those > goes to the funding account. But if the below > concept is followed it > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and > the > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to > various employee. > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as > with the Sikh > community where free service is also an offering. > The give and take > concept if discouraged would have far reaching > consequence on the > day to day working of such institution...I have my > own doubts if the > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi > concept. Currently when > some bad time falls on us, we run to > Guruvayoorappan, same way as a > child runs to his/her parents when they are in > trouble or even when > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we > feel it would > not be fair to go empty handed so promise > Guruvayoorappan certain > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are > classified into do this > and you get this..do that and that for good > health...etc.. > > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared > by the good > members in our forum. > > Narayana Narayana..... > > Pravin > > guruvayur , " K.V > Gopalakrishna " > <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: > > > > Dear Mataji, > > Radhe Krishna! > > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due > regard to what > Shri > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in > some cases, it is > a > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires > the object he > has been > > longing for. This complacency makes him too > jubilant, raising > his ego > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that > what he has > acquired is > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added > the word " also " > > because many people think that one's hard work was > responsible for > his > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness > of the doctor > and the > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I > would like to > reiterate > > here that hard work is definitely required to be > done if one wants > to > > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's > experience and the > efficacy > > of the medicine play a very important part in > curing the > disease. But > > all these require divine grace to have their > effect. Without > that, no > > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work > will not pay. > People > > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong > happens without > > realising that the bad that has happened is result > of one's own > Karma. > > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His > grace is > required. > > " Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave! " > > > > Promising to perform a particular " vazhipadu " to > God if He favours > etc., > > like performing a " Tulabharam " if one gets cured > of his ailment > etc., is > > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the > person's promise > and > > cure of the disease, it may look as though the > person got cured > because > > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is > not so. It is > the > > person's belief on one side and the fruits of > Karma on the other > cured > > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered > with Bhakti. > But what > > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone. > > > > Regards > > KVG. > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote: > > > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan! > > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to > examine the > following > > > sloka from Gita. > > > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino > arjuna > > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha > bharathrshbha > > > Krishna says, > > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship > Me, Arjuna,the > seeker > > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the > seeker for > knowledge and > > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who > believes in God > prays > > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of > the world,wealth > or > > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result > of his prayer his > > > devotion is strengthened and develops into > faith.If he has not > already > > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire > is not > fulfilled.This > > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe > in God,' from > those > > > who face disappointments in life. > > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of > arthaarthee type > of > > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the > fulfilment of his > > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand > became a jnani > later, > > > elevated to the status of dhruva star. > > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his > sole refuge when > in > > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees > with staunch > faith > > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed > as > mahavisvasam ,among > > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not > seek Him for > worldly > > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out > their life > which > > > alone will make them call out to Him in > earnest.In normal life > we do > > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have > belief in Him and > > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the > importance === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Dear Sri. Ganapathy Raman, Namaskarams. You have a very valid point. People should patronise all temples, as it is the same all-pervading Lord is present in all places, and all temples. It again depends on the beliefs and faiths of the devotees to decide which temple they should throng. How to impress upon the devotees about this aspect, I do not know. In my humble opinion, this can be done only by renovating old temples and attracting the local devotees to those temples. Temple authorities have no business to put up boards which describe the nature of Vazhipadu and the fruits it will give to the devotee. Such temple authorities should be sued under the consumer protection act if the assured results are not obtained! How can anybody assure the results when God dispenses fruits of action? And is there any guarantee that if a certain vazhipadu is performed, such results will follow? Then there will be Insurance companies cropping up, collecting premiums and paying compensations for non-receipt of benefits. I have visited many temples, including Guruvayoor. I have seen boards which display the cost of rituals which the devotees normally perform, but I have not seen the enumeration of benefits the devotee will get in return. Are you sure about it? Regards KVG. GANAPATHY RAMAN wrote: > > > Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc money is required > but the point is who are the persons chalking out the various > vazhipadus and fixing rates?The temple authorities and not God.If the > temple authorities say that to > run the temple money is required and hence donate your might they > won't get > much but if they exhibit in boards that such and such vazhipadus can > bring this and that benefit people are glad to contribute whether the > same materialises or > not and so the authorities are trying to display a long list to > collect funds in this way which has nothing to do with Bhakthy or > God.This trend has become in vogue during the past decades > only.Centuries back there were no such things. > > Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati attract devotees in > millions and > in this way the coffers also can overflow by the so called > vazhipadus.A devotee > is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar or plantain or > anything by paying the rates fixed by the administration thinking that > God is pleased with his offering, and the administration is happy that > their bank balances increase which > can be utilised and misutilised for various things.This is actually > what is happening in big temples.On the otherhand there are > innumerable temples which don't hv any income even to offer neivedyam > to the Deity or having enough oil even to light the lamps.Why the > devotees don't flock to those temples also and > do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can see the light of the > day.Is > Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha sits only in > Sabarimalai when > the all pervading God is in every atom and every idol why some temples > flourish and some suffer?Does that mean that people who go to those > less fortunate > temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a custom that everyday > whatever > money and other offerings come will be accounted before the Deity in > the night > but it is not known how the money is being spent and whether the Deity > gives permission for all the expenses?There was even an attempt years > back that the > amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds thereby diverting > the funds of the temple but due to the protest of the devotees the > idea was shelved. > > There is noting wrong in collecting money for the administration of > temple by > means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected with Bhakthy as > there is no > sanction from the Deity for the same and it is only the temple > administration fixes the same.Years back in GVR udayasthamana pooja > was fixed at Rs.5000 > but now I don't know the amount but certainly it must be 50000 and > what is the > guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The temple administration > members enjoy in all comforts from the so called collections and that > too everybody knows.Then how this collection can be linked to ardent > Bhakthy?Did the > Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration to collect so much > money? > So in the name of God all these are made.In a country like India with > more than a billion people there is always the tendency to resort to > superstitions in beliefs > and the eagerness to know abt the future thru astrology.If there is > something > wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an ashtamangalya prasna is > conducted.The astrologers say that God is furious because the > surroundings are polluted and the devotees are not havig proper > devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When the same is said > by media and people nobody bothers and when the astrologers say that > God is angry immedately steps are taken to ward > off evils supposed to happen if the same are not done.Are they not > looking funny? > > My intention is not to fnd fault with anything that is going on which > everybody knows but the pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha such > things appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae suffering > for lack of funs why certain important temples alone take the cakes > when we accept that God is everywhere.There is no explanation for this > anamoly and the same will continue. > So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple coffers can be filled > up but not lead one to Real Bhakthy.Was there such a system during the > days of Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days they had so much > love and > devotion to God and never bothered abt other things..Now the trend has > changed and money takes the upper hand over Real Bhakthy.What a pity? > > If anybody is offended by these comments I express regret as I hv only > stated what I felt and to enforce the fact that Bhakthy has nothing to > do with the so > called offerings and the same depends on individual choices and not on > the > choice of people running temple administration. > > > Hare Krishna. > > > */hba9331 <pravin9/* wrote: > > Om Namo Narayanaya > A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various > questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have > > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does > not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those > goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed it > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various employee. > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh > community where free service is also an offering. The give and take > concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the > day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if the > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently when > some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a > child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would > not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do this > and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc.. > > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good > members in our forum. > > Narayana Narayana..... > > Pravin > > guruvayur > <guruvayur%40>, " K.V Gopalakrishna " > <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: > > > > Dear Mataji, > > Radhe Krishna! > > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what > Shri > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it is > a > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he > has been > > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising > his ego > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has > acquired is > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word " also " > > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible for > his > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor > and the > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to > reiterate > > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one wants > to > > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the > efficacy > > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the > disease. But > > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without > that, no > > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. > People > > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens without > > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own > Karma. > > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is > required. > > " Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave! " > > > > Promising to perform a particular " vazhipadu " to God if He favours > etc., > > like performing a " Tulabharam " if one gets cured of his ailment > etc., is > > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise > and > > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured > because > > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is > the > > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other > cured > > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. > But what > > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone. > > > > Regards > > KVG. > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote: > > > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan! > > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the > following > > > sloka from Gita. > > > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna > > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha > > > Krishna says, > > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the > seeker > > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for > knowledge and > > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God > prays > > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth > or > > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his > > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not > already > > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not > fulfilled.This > > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from > those > > > who face disappointments in life. > > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type > of > > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his > > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani > later, > > > elevated to the status of dhruva star. > > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when > in > > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch > faith > > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as > mahavisvasam ,among > > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for > worldly > > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life > which > > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life > we do > > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of > the > > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds > of > > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this. > > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord > Siva > > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that > the > > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate. > > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said > that > > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma > being > > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him > Siva > > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she > should > > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy > without > > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which > the man > > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did > not > > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death > > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the > pleasures > > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing > that > > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and > to > > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of > Bhakthi. A > > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of > life > > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > could > > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > acertain > > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > jignasu > > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana > which > > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through > someone > > > as He did for Parikshit. > > > > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth > about > > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both > bhakthas > > > and jnanis. > > > > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya, > > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously > dropping > > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, > remembrance, > > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus > DHruvAsmrthi is > > > prescribed as the means of liberation > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May god bless you, > > > > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in > sanskrit. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co> > m/handraisers> > > > > > > > > > > > ------ > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click > here > <http://us.rd./mail/in/mailanswersshare/*http://in.answers./> > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here > <http://us.rd./mail/in/mailfifa/*http://in.sports./football/fo\ otball_fifa.html> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Dear Gopalakrishnaji Thank you for the valuable information Regards Syamala"K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: Dear Pravin,Radhe Krishna!Your point is very valid. It is said that when one goes to see god, children, old people and sick ones, one should not go empty-handed. the same principle applies when one visits Guruvayoorappan also. One can put money in the Hundi which will go for the upkeep and day to day expenses of the temple, feeding poor devotees, and so on and so forth. One can perform vazhipadus as token of one's Bhakti which the Lord will be only too pleased to accept. Unbelievers do ask questions like "God does not accept your gifts physically, nor does He take any neivedyam you offer, so why take to Him?" This is no argument. Because, although God has not physically eaten all the Prasadam, He has blessed it, and any devotee who eats that Prasadam will certainly be benefitted. There are, stories in our mythology that He has physically accepted and eaten the neivedyam when the Unni Namboodiri who was too innocent cried.Similary, one may argue that God is the giver to all. He is the creator. How can one offer to Him, the same things He has created ? One should remember that it is not just the material value of the offering that counts; it is the Bhakti which goes along with that. Has He not said in Bhagavad gita to Arjuna and in Bhagavatam to Uddhava and Kuchela, " Patram Pushpam Phalam Toyam, yo me Bhaktya prayacchati, thadaham bhaktyupahritam asnami prayatatmanaha". (Whoever offers me with love, a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or even water, I accept and enjoy that offering of love by that man of purified intellect.)..Does He not know that all the four commodities He has listed were created by Him?. Did He not grab what Kuchela was hiding under his arm-pit, being too shy to offer the beaten rice he had brought? Did He not eat that beaten rice that Bhakta had brought, with avarice, as if He has not seen beaten rice before? and that too, that beaten rice bundled up in a rag and soaked in Kuchela's sweat? Does it not show His love and fondness for His devotees? For the Lord, nothing is more important than the devotee, and nothing dearer than devotion, which is the most intense form of love.( Prematmaka-bhakti.) So there is nothing absolutely wrong in making offerings to GodWhat I meant as inferior form of Bhakti was the devotee promising the Lord, "Lord! Cure my child's sickness-- I will offer you Tulabharam--" Many people do, do this sort of promise without thinking that they are trying to barter with the Lord! One can't blame them, as it has become part of our culture, under the name of "nercha", which, to me, looks odd.LoveKVG.hba9331 wrote:> Om Namo Narayanaya> A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should> earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various> questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have>> It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does> not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those> goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed it> would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the> infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various employee.> We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh> community where free service is also an offering. The give and take> concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the> day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if the> Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently when> some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a> child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when> they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would> not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain> Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do this> and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc..>> I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good> members in our forum.>> Narayana Narayana.....>> Pravin>> guruvayur <guruvayur%40>, > "K.V Gopalakrishna"> <gopalakrishna.kv wrote:> >> > Dear Mataji,> > Radhe Krishna!> >> > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what> Shri> > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it is> a> > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he> has been> > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising> his ego> > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has> acquired is> > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word "also"> > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible for> his> > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor> and the> > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to> reiterate> > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one wants> to> > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the> efficacy> > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the> disease. But> > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without> that, no> > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay.> People> > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens without> > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own> Karma.> > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is> required.> > "Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave!"> >> > Promising to perform a particular "vazhipadu" to God if He favours> etc.,> > like performing a "Tulabharam" if one gets cured of his ailment> etc., is> > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise> and> > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured> because> > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is> the> > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other> cured> > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti.> But what> > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone.> >> > Regards> > KVG.> >> >> > Saroja Ramanujam wrote:> >> > > Well said Gopalakrishnan!> > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the> following> > > sloka from Gita.> > >> > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna> > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha> > > Krishna says,> > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the> seeker> > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for> knowledge and> > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God> prays> > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth> or> > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his> > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not> already> > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not> fulfilled.This> > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from> those> > > who face disappointments in life.> > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type> of> > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his> > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani> later,> > > elevated to the status of dhruva star.> > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when> in> > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch> faith> > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as> mahavisvasam ,among> > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for> worldly> > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life> which> > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life> we do> > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and> > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of> the> > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds> of> > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires> > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this.> > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord> Siva> > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that> the> > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate.> > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said> that> > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma> being> > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him> Siva> > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she> should> > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy> without> > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which> the man> > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did> not> > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death> > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the> pleasures> > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing> that> > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and> to> > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of> Bhakthi. A> > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of> life> > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that> could> > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to> acertain> > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A> jignasu> > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana> which> > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through> someone> > > as He did for Parikshit.> > >> > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth> about> > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both> bhakthas> > > and jnanis.> > >> > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya,> > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,'> > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously> dropping> > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm> > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva,> remembrance,> > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus> DHruvAsmrthi is> > > prescribed as the means of liberation> > >> > >> > > Saroja Ramanujam> > >> > >> > >> > > .> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > May god bless you,> > >> > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in> sanskrit.> > >> > >> > > -------------------------> -------> > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta.> > >> <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co>> m/handraisers>> > >> > >> >>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Om Namo Narayana !!! Dear Friends and Devotees of Lord Guruvayoorappan! To justify our stand on any subject, we say that God do not like that thing; God always like this thing etc. etc. . Who has given us authority to say that what God Like and what do not and how we know what God expect from us. So, what we can do is to follow the path of God. God has always stood by justice; he has always helped those who are helpless. Mahabharata, Ramayana and Bhagavat Geetha teach us about this. So let us also do the same. Let us raise our voice against injustice, let us help the poor, and let us spread the message for people to live harmoniously. We give offering to God. It is not anything what we give to him in return of his blessings. It is like this: In our family, our parents take care of us, they love us. Even if we don’t give anything to them, they love and look after us. They help us whenever we need their support. Still, we give them some Gift on special occasions, like Onam, Vishu etc. That is the way to express our deep love towards them, even if it is a small gift, they accept it wholeheartedly. Offering to God by its devotees is also like this. It is a small gift to God to express their true devotion. May God Bless All, May God Guide us. --- GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: > > > Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc > money is required but the point is who are the > persons chalking out the various vazhipadus and > fixing rates?The temple authorities and not God.If > the temple authorities say that to > run the temple money is required and hence donate > your might they won't get > much but if they exhibit in boards that such and > such vazhipadus can bring this and that benefit > people are glad to contribute whether the same > materialises or > not and so the authorities are trying to display a > long list to collect funds in this way which has > nothing to do with Bhakthy or God.This trend has > become in vogue during the past decades > only.Centuries back there were no such things. > > Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati > attract devotees in millions and > in this way the coffers also can overflow by the > so called vazhipadus.A devotee > is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar > or plantain or anything by paying the rates fixed by > the administration thinking that God is pleased with > his offering, and the administration is happy that > their bank balances increase which > can be utilised and misutilised for various > things.This is actually what is happening in big > temples.On the otherhand there are innumerable > temples which don't hv any income even to offer > neivedyam to the Deity or having enough oil even to > light the lamps.Why the devotees don't flock to > those temples also and > do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can > see the light of the day.Is > Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha > sits only in Sabarimalai when > the all pervading God is in every atom and every > idol why some temples flourish and some suffer?Does > that mean that people who go to those less fortunate > > temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a > custom that everyday whatever > money and other offerings come will be accounted > before the Deity in the night > but it is not known how the money is being spent > and whether the Deity gives permission for all the > expenses?There was even an attempt years back that > the > amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds > thereby diverting the funds of the temple but due to > the protest of the devotees the idea was shelved. > > There is noting wrong in collecting money for the > administration of temple by > means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected > with Bhakthy as there is no > sanction from the Deity for the same and it is > only the temple administration fixes the same.Years > back in GVR udayasthamana pooja was fixed at Rs.5000 > but now I don't know the amount but certainly it > must be 50000 and what is the > guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The > temple administration members enjoy in all comforts > from the so called collections and that too > everybody knows.Then how this collection can be > linked to ardent Bhakthy?Did the > Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration > to collect so much money? > So in the name of God all these are made.In a > country like India with more than a billion people > there is always the tendency to resort to > superstitions in beliefs > and the eagerness to know abt the future thru > astrology.If there is something > wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an > ashtamangalya prasna is conducted.The astrologers > say that God is furious because the surroundings are > polluted and the devotees are not havig proper > devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When > the same is said by media and people nobody bothers > and when the astrologers say that God is angry > immedately steps are taken to ward > off evils supposed to happen if the same are not > done.Are they not looking funny? > > My intention is not to fnd fault with anything > that is going on which everybody knows but the > pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha such things > appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae > suffering for lack of funs why certain important > temples alone take the cakes when we accept that God > is everywhere.There is no explanation for this > anamoly and the same will continue. > So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple > coffers can be filled up but not lead one to Real > Bhakthy.Was there such a system during the days of > Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days they > had so much love and > devotion to God and never bothered abt other > things..Now the trend has changed and money takes > the upper hand over Real Bhakthy.What a pity? > > If anybody is offended by these comments I express > regret as I hv only stated what I felt and to > enforce the fact that Bhakthy has nothing to do with > the so > called offerings and the same depends on > individual choices and not on the > choice of people running temple administration. > > > Hare Krishna. > > > hba9331 <pravin9 wrote: > Om Namo Narayanaya > A very good topic to discuss on this forum. > Everybody should > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be > various > questions coming up in our mind...one such question > I have > > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that > Guruvayoor does > not need any of our material offerings in cash or > kind, all those > goes to the funding account. But if the below > concept is followed it > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and > the > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to > various employee. > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as > with the Sikh > community where free service is also an offering. > The give and take > concept if discouraged would have far reaching > consequence on the > day to day working of such institution...I have my > own doubts if the > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi > concept. Currently when > some bad time falls on us, we run to > Guruvayoorappan, same way as a > child runs to his/her parents when they are in > trouble or even when > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we > feel it would > not be fair to go empty handed so promise > Guruvayoorappan certain > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are > classified into do this > and you get this..do that and that for good > health...etc.. > > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared > by the good > members in our forum. > > Narayana Narayana..... > > Pravin > > guruvayur , " K.V > Gopalakrishna " > <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: > > > > Dear Mataji, > > Radhe Krishna! > > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due > regard to what > Shri > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in > some cases, it is > a > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires > the object he > has been > > longing for. This complacency makes him too > jubilant, raising > his ego > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that > what he has > acquired is > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added > the word " also " > > because many people think that one's hard work was > responsible for > his > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness > of the doctor > and the > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I > would like to > reiterate > > here that hard work is definitely required to be > done === message truncated === ________ India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Sri Guruvayoorappan saranam, A devotee is an instrument of the Bhagavan Sri Krishna ; and it is the Lord's power that is acting through him/her. It is quite natural that , a devotee is grateful to the Bhagavan for His kindness ; and is always pleased to offer something in return. It is easy to criticise the Temple working systems in place , but difficult to run it . There is no need for the devotee to worry about the running of temple because Bhagavan is there to take care through His own ways and means. The religious institutions of non-Hindu religions don't have any public accountabilty whereas the Devaswam Boards are accountable to Government. Most of the small temples are run from the income of Guruvayoor and Sabarimala. So let us be positive in our approach . Don't worry, be happy!!!! Just chant Om Namo Narayanaya and leave the rest to Bhagavan. A Bhaktan guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: > > > > Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc money is required but the point is who are the persons chalking out the various vazhipadus and fixing rates?The temple authorities and not God.If the temple authorities say that to > run the temple money is required and hence donate your might they won't get > much but if they exhibit in boards that such and such vazhipadus can bring this and that benefit people are glad to contribute whether the same materialises or > not and so the authorities are trying to display a long list to collect funds in this way which has nothing to do with Bhakthy or God.This trend has become in vogue during the past decades only.Centuries back there were no such things. > > Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati attract devotees in millions and > in this way the coffers also can overflow by the so called vazhipadus.A devotee > is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar or plantain or anything by paying the rates fixed by the administration thinking that God is pleased with his offering, and the administration is happy that their bank balances increase which > can be utilised and misutilised for various things.This is actually what is happening in big temples.On the otherhand there are innumerable temples which don't hv any income even to offer neivedyam to the Deity or having enough oil even to light the lamps.Why the devotees don't flock to those temples also and > do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can see the light of the day.Is > Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha sits only in Sabarimalai when > the all pervading God is in every atom and every idol why some temples flourish and some suffer?Does that mean that people who go to those less fortunate > temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a custom that everyday whatever > money and other offerings come will be accounted before the Deity in the night > but it is not known how the money is being spent and whether the Deity gives permission for all the expenses?There was even an attempt years back that the > amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds thereby diverting the funds of the temple but due to the protest of the devotees the idea was shelved. > > There is noting wrong in collecting money for the administration of temple by > means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected with Bhakthy as there is no > sanction from the Deity for the same and it is only the temple administration fixes the same.Years back in GVR udayasthamana pooja was fixed at Rs.5000 > but now I don't know the amount but certainly it must be 50000 and what is the > guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The temple administration members enjoy in all comforts from the so called collections and that too everybody knows.Then how this collection can be linked to ardent Bhakthy?Did the > Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration to collect so much money? > So in the name of God all these are made.In a country like India with more than a billion people there is always the tendency to resort to superstitions in beliefs > and the eagerness to know abt the future thru astrology.If there is something > wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an ashtamangalya prasna is conducted.The astrologers say that God is furious because the surroundings are polluted and the devotees are not havig proper devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When the same is said by media and people nobody bothers and when the astrologers say that God is angry immedately steps are taken to ward > off evils supposed to happen if the same are not done.Are they not looking funny? > > My intention is not to fnd fault with anything that is going on which everybody knows but the pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha such things appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae suffering for lack of funs why certain important temples alone take the cakes when we accept that God is everywhere.There is no explanation for this anamoly and the same will continue. > So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple coffers can be filled up but not lead one to Real Bhakthy.Was there such a system during the days of Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days they had so much love and > devotion to God and never bothered abt other things..Now the trend has changed and money takes the upper hand over Real Bhakthy.What a pity? > > If anybody is offended by these comments I express regret as I hv only stated what I felt and to enforce the fact that Bhakthy has nothing to do with the so > called offerings and the same depends on individual choices and not on the > choice of people running temple administration. > > > Hare Krishna. > > > hba9331 <pravin9 wrote: > Om Namo Narayanaya > A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various > questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have > > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does > not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those > goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed it > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various employee. > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh > community where free service is also an offering. The give and take > concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the > day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if the > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently when > some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a > child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would > not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do this > and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc.. > > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good > members in our forum. > > Narayana Narayana..... > > Pravin > > guruvayur , " K.V Gopalakrishna " > <gopalakrishna.kv@> wrote: > > > > Dear Mataji, > > Radhe Krishna! > > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what > Shri > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it is > a > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he > has been > > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising > his ego > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has > acquired is > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word " also " > > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible for > his > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor > and the > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to > reiterate > > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one wants > to > > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the > efficacy > > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the > disease. But > > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without > that, no > > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. > People > > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens without > > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own > Karma. > > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is > required. > > " Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave! " > > > > Promising to perform a particular " vazhipadu " to God if He favours > etc., > > like performing a " Tulabharam " if one gets cured of his ailment > etc., is > > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise > and > > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured > because > > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is > the > > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other > cured > > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. > But what > > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone. > > > > Regards > > KVG. > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote: > > > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan! > > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the > following > > > sloka from Gita. > > > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna > > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha > > > Krishna says, > > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the > seeker > > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for > knowledge and > > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God > prays > > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth > or > > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his > > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not > already > > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not > fulfilled.This > > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from > those > > > who face disappointments in life. > > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type > of > > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his > > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani > later, > > > elevated to the status of dhruva star. > > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when > in > > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch > faith > > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as > mahavisvasam ,among > > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for > worldly > > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life > which > > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life > we do > > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of > the > > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds > of > > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this. > > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord > Siva > > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that > the > > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate. > > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said > that > > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma > being > > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him > Siva > > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she > should > > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy > without > > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which > the man > > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did > not > > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death > > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the > pleasures > > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing > that > > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and > to > > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of > Bhakthi. A > > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of > life > > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > could > > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > acertain > > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > jignasu > > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana > which > > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through > someone > > > as He did for Parikshit. > > > > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth > about > > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both > bhakthas > > > and jnanis. > > > > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya, > > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously > dropping > > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, > remembrance, > > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus > DHruvAsmrthi is > > > prescribed as the means of liberation > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May god bless you, > > > > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in > sanskrit. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co > m/handraisers> > > > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Dear Krishnadaya, It is quite some time that you hv not been heard in this Group.Here the question is not that of how the temples are administered or how the offerings of devotees are utilised or what interests the devotees to make such offerings.As said that depends on individual choices and there is no need to interfere.But regarding the amounts collected by way of vazhipadus and how they are utilised nobody knows and that is also not our concern.The point is how such things can be correlated to the Bakthy concept?Do you wish to say that by offerings even though with full heart could be construed as Bhakthy?There are hundreds of people who just dump money in the hundi which has become a custom and not a way of expressing Bhakthy.I hv seen in all the big temples .big bundles of notes are deposited in the hundi and do you think that can be termed as bhakthy?or is it some type of bargaining?There are hundreds of people who never bother to contribute even token amounts to many deserving cases like the Deaf and Dumb society,Blind society,Charitable institutions who run providing succour to the orphans but they are prepared to put waddles of currencies in the hundis and as offerings as if God is in need of that.Why this change in their minds?Instead of dumping money in the hundis if they spend at least a portion to the needy,distressed people will not that bring them the Grace of God as all are His children and due to karma effects they hv born to suffer and giving them a helping hand,will not that please the God?It is said Manavaseva is Madhavaseva-when that is eloquently drummed up in platforms are all practicing the same?By dumping money for the sake of upliftment of temples which are already very rich what purpose does it serve when the teeming millions suffer in desolation and despair?Do you not think that have nots shuld be protected by those who hv the money power in the interest of God as all are His creatures? Due to good karmas in the earlier births one may possess lot of wealth but shuld not the person think that the same shuld be distributed at least a portion to the needy? I am not a preacher but I say from practical point of view and not to offend anybody.I know you hv enough knowledge to understand what I mean?You are also doing a great service and that too I know in your own way which is surely laudable.As a Krishna bhaktha you shuld hv the compassion to the down trodden also.Of course the whole world can't be made into a paradise overnight by doling out to the needy people but those who do even a bit will surely enjoy great peace and the Grace of God as He is not for the rich and vainglorious people but for the poor,unsung people as He has demonstrated in the case of Kuchela.If the devotee is the instrument of Bhagawan Krishna whyshuld He make him to be a slave to the material gains without thinking abt His own brothers and sisters who are also the instruments of Him.So that argument carries no weight.It s because there is an element of ego in the minds of His instruments also which even He finds it difficult to dilute.Again you say that Bhagawan will take care of running the temples.In what way?Is He the chairman of the administrative board?or is He giving directions?In your estimate how many temples come under the purview of GVR and Sabarimala temples?Are all the temples properly taken care of by the Boards of the GVR and Sabarimala? Another fun is your advice not to worry and be happy.There is no dearth for happiness in me as I always possess equanimity of mind never bothering abt accolades or derisions as I know that is all part of the game.By chanting Narayana with full faith will all the ills of the people automatically vanish?Then why shuld one go to the temple and make offerings instead of keeping quiet at home and chanting Narayana all the time.Since you and I know that the same is not practical as the same won't make the world move as even Krishna has said do your duty without expecting rewards simply chanting won't lead anybody anywhere unless the same is also accompanied by the duty,love and devotion and compassion to the fellow beings.That is the only way to get the Mercy and Grace OF God and this what all the scriptures also enunciate.Even Vasudeva Krishna also reiterates the same thing. Krishnadaya,don't get upset over what I hv said as it is not my intention to wound your feelings.You hv said what you think to be a method and I just said what I felt.That is all.As I know you are a great Krishna bhaktha and doing good services in your own humble way I hv just taken some liberty to bring to your attention that there are many things beyond our control as Hamlet used to say in Othello,'Horatio,there are many wonders in this world than what you imagine'. In essence what I mean by Bhakthy has nothing to do with the so called offerings and vazhipadus though the same are left to the choice of the devotees as I myself don't know whether I am a devotee or not and to what extent I hv progressed in this field as it is an ocean and only God is the arbiter in such things.God Bless.. Hare Krishna, agraman. krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote: Sri Guruvayoorappan saranam,A devotee is an instrument of the Bhagavan Sri Krishna ; and it is the Lord's power that is acting through him/her. It is quite natural that , a devotee is grateful to the Bhagavan for His kindness ; and is always pleased to offer something in return. It is easy to criticise the Temple working systems in place , but difficult to run it . There is no need for the devotee to worry about the running of temple because Bhagavan is there to take care through His own ways and means. The religious institutions of non-Hindu religions don't have any public accountabilty whereas the Devaswam Boards are accountable to Government. Most of the small temples are run from the income of Guruvayoor and Sabarimala. So let us be positive in our approach . Don't worry, be happy!!!!Just chant Om Namo Narayanaya and leave the rest to Bhagavan.A Bhaktanguruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:>> > > Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc money is required but the point is who are the persons chalking out the various vazhipadus and fixing rates?The temple authorities and not God.If the temple authorities say that to > run the temple money is required and hence donate your might they won't get > much but if they exhibit in boards that such and such vazhipadus can bring this and that benefit people are glad to contribute whether the same materialises or> not and so the authorities are trying to display a long list to collect funds in this way which has nothing to do with Bhakthy or God.This trend has become in vogue during the past decades only.Centuries back there were no such things.> > Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati attract devotees in millions and> in this way the coffers also can overflow by the so called vazhipadus.A devotee > is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar or plantain or anything by paying the rates fixed by the administration thinking that God is pleased with his offering, and the administration is happy that their bank balances increase which > can be utilised and misutilised for various things.This is actually what is happening in big temples.On the otherhand there are innumerable temples which don't hv any income even to offer neivedyam to the Deity or having enough oil even to light the lamps.Why the devotees don't flock to those temples also and> do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can see the light of the day.Is> Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha sits only in Sabarimalai when > the all pervading God is in every atom and every idol why some temples flourish and some suffer?Does that mean that people who go to those less fortunate > temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a custom that everyday whatever > money and other offerings come will be accounted before the Deity in the night> but it is not known how the money is being spent and whether the Deity gives permission for all the expenses?There was even an attempt years back that the > amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds thereby diverting the funds of the temple but due to the protest of the devotees the idea was shelved.> > There is noting wrong in collecting money for the administration of temple by > means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected with Bhakthy as there is no> sanction from the Deity for the same and it is only the temple administration fixes the same.Years back in GVR udayasthamana pooja was fixed at Rs.5000> but now I don't know the amount but certainly it must be 50000 and what is the > guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The temple administration members enjoy in all comforts from the so called collections and that too everybody knows.Then how this collection can be linked to ardent Bhakthy?Did the > Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration to collect so much money?> So in the name of God all these are made.In a country like India with more than a billion people there is always the tendency to resort to superstitions in beliefs> and the eagerness to know abt the future thru astrology.If there is something > wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an ashtamangalya prasna is conducted.The astrologers say that God is furious because the surroundings are polluted and the devotees are not havig proper devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When the same is said by media and people nobody bothers and when the astrologers say that God is angry immedately steps are taken to ward > off evils supposed to happen if the same are not done.Are they not looking funny?> > My intention is not to fnd fault with anything that is going on which everybody knows but the pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha such things appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae suffering for lack of funs why certain important temples alone take the cakes when we accept that God is everywhere.There is no explanation for this anamoly and the same will continue.> So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple coffers can be filled up but not lead one to Real Bhakthy.Was there such a system during the days of Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days they had so much love and > devotion to God and never bothered abt other things..Now the trend has changed and money takes the upper hand over Real Bhakthy.What a pity?> > If anybody is offended by these comments I express regret as I hv only stated what I felt and to enforce the fact that Bhakthy has nothing to do with the so > called offerings and the same depends on individual choices and not on the > choice of people running temple administration.> > > Hare Krishna.> > > hba9331 <pravin9 wrote:> Om Namo Narayanaya> A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various > questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have> > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does > not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those > goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed it > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various employee. > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh > community where free service is also an offering. The give and take > concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the > day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if the > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently when > some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a > child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would > not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do this > and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc..> > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good > members in our forum.> > Narayana Narayana.....> > Pravin> > guruvayur , "K.V Gopalakrishna" > <gopalakrishna.kv@> wrote:> >> > Dear Mataji,> > Radhe Krishna!> > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what > Shri > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it is > a > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he > has been > > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising > his ego > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has > acquired is > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word "also" > > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible for > his > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor > and the > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to > reiterate > > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one wants > to > > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the > efficacy > > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the > disease. But > > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without > that, no > > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. > People > > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens without > > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own > Karma. > > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is > required. > > "Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave!"> > > > Promising to perform a particular "vazhipadu" to God if He favours > etc., > > like performing a "Tulabharam" if one gets cured of his ailment > etc., is > > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise > and > > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured > because > > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is > the > > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other > cured > > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. > But what > > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone.> > > > Regards> > KVG.> > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote:> > > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan!> > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the > following > > > sloka from Gita.> > > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna> > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha> > > Krishna says,> > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the > seeker > > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for > knowledge and > > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in God > prays > > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth > or > > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer his > > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not > already > > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not > fulfilled.This > > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from > those > > > who face disappointments in life.> > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee type > of > > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of his > > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani > later, > > > elevated to the status of dhruva star.> > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge when > in > > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch > faith > > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as > mahavisvasam ,among > > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for > worldly > > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life > which > > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life > we do > > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of > the > > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds > of > > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this.> > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord > Siva > > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi that > the > > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his fate. > > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and said > that > > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his karma > being > > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with him > Siva > > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she > should > > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy > without > > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which > the man > > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did > not > > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death> > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the > pleasures > > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing > that > > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and > to > > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of > Bhakthi. A > > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures of > life > > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > could > > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > acertain > > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > jignasu > > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana > which > > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through > someone > > > as He did for Parikshit.> > > > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth > about > > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both > bhakthas > > > and jnanis.> > > > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya,> > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously > dropping > > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, > remembrance, > > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus > DHruvAsmrthi is > > > prescribed as the means of liberation> > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam> > >> > > > > >> > > .> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > May god bless you,> > > > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in > sanskrit.> > > > > >> > > -------------------------> -------> > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co> m/handraisers> > > >> > >> >> > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here> Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here> India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Sri Guruvayoorappan Saranam, My humble pranams to Sri Guruvayoorapppan and all His devotees , I respect Sri Ganapathy Raman , but differ with him on those adverse views against Sri Guruvayoorappan's relevance. Millions of devotees have experienced the live presence of Lord Sri Krishna in Guruvayoor temple ; and His deity is not inactive like the Kelappan statue outside. Not even a leaf will move inside the temple against Bhagavan's wish ; and this has been time and again revealed through chosen sources. Each devotee is dear to Bhagavan and this relationship is dependent on his/her past karma and degree of devotion . As a humble worshipper of Sri Krishna's lotus feet , I am depending totally on the chanting of Narayana-nama for everything and from it's strength endeavor to follow Bhagavan 's advice : • Do your duty, to the best of your abilities, for Me without any selfish motive, and remember Me at all times - before starting a work, at the completion of a task, and while inactive. • Practice to look upon all creatures as Myself in thought, word, and deed ; and mentally bow down to them. • Although I the Supreme God, can never be captured by ordinary sense perception, My devotees may use their intelligence and perception (by bhakti-yoga) to directly search for Me through both apparent and indirect symptoms. • Awaken your dormant spiritual power (by bhakti-yoga)and perceive through the activities of mind, senses, breathing, and emotions that My power is within you at all times, and is constantly doing all the work using you as a mere instrument " . PRESENT REALITIES In this age of cut throat competition and selfishness , modern India ( ex- Bharatakhanda) as a nation has practically replaced it's sacred atmic approach with, hypocritical secularism (Godlessness) . Social work and charity have become big business these days ; and many of the related organizations fight each other to grab own scope in the event of a natural calamity . In certain cases , even spirituality is being marketed cleverly ; and the same people ask their followers not to donate to Guruvayoor temple . There is no accountability for the huge funds being collected by many anti-vedic social organizations and many of such funds are being used to destabilize this ancient country which is still a thorn in the flesh of anti-vedic forces . Guruvayoor temple remains as a ray of hope for the struggling vedic faith and associated social well being . SCRIPTURAL JUSTIFICATION for OFFERINGS BY DEVOTEES Bhagavan Krishna advises Uddhava ( Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter no.11 ) on temple worship : SB 11.27.15 : One should worship Me in My Deity forms by offering the most excellent paraphernalia . But a devotee completely freed from material desire may worship Me with whatever he is able to obtain, and may even worship Me within his heart with mental paraphernalia. SB 11.27.16-17 : In worshiping the temple Deity, my dear Uddhava, bathing and decoration are the most pleasing offerings . For the Deity traced on sacred ground, the process of tattva-viny & #257;sais most dear. Oblations of sesame and barley soaked in ghee are the preferred offering to the sacrificial fire, whereas worship consisting of upasth & #257;na and arghya is preferred for the sun. One should worship Me in the form of water by offering water itself. Actually, whatever is offered to Me with faith by My devotee — even if only a little water — is most dear to Me. SB 11.27.18 : Even very opulent presentations do not satisfy Me if they are offered by nondevotees . But I am pleased by any insignificant offering made by My loving devotees, and I am certainly most pleased when nice presentations of fragrant oil, incense, flowers and palatable foods are offered with love. SB 11.27.32 : My devotee should then lovingly decorate Me with clothing, a brahmana thread, various ornaments, marks of tilaka and garlands, and he should anoint My body with fragrant oils, all in the prescribed manner. SB 11.27.33 : The worshiper should faithfully present Me with water for washing My feet and mouth, fragrant oils, flowers and unbroken grains, along with incense, lamps and other offerings. SB 11.27.34 : Within his means, the devotee should arrange to offer Me sugar candy, sweet rice, ghee, rice-flour cakes, various sweet cakes, steamed rice-flour dumplings filled with sweet coconut and sugar , wheat cakes made with ghee and milk and covered with sugar and spices], yogurt, vegetable soups and other palatable foods. SB 11.27.35 : On special occasions, and daily if possible, the Deity should be massaged with ointment, shown a mirror, offered a eucalyptus stick for brushing His teeth, bathed with the five kinds of nectar, offered all kinds of opulent foods, and entertained with singing and dancing. SB 11.27.44 : Singing along with others, chanting loudly and dancing, acting out My transcendental pastimes, and hearing and telling stories about Me, the devotee should for some time absorb himself in such festivity. SB 11.27.45 : The devotee should offer homage to the Lord with all kinds of hymns and prayers, both from the Pur & #257;n & #803;as and from other ancient scriptures, and also from ordinary traditions. Praying, " O Lord, please be merciful to me! " he should fall down flat like a rod to offer his obeisances. SB 11.27.46 : Placing his head at the feet of the Deity, he should then stand with folded hands before the Lord and pray, " O my Lord, please protect me, who am surrendered unto You. I am most fearful of this ocean of material existence, standing as I am in the mouth of death. " SB 11.27.47 : Praying in this way, the devotee should respectfully place upon his head the remnants I offer to him. And if the particular Deity is meant to be sent away at the end of the worship, then this should be performed, the devotee once again placing the light of the Deity's presence inside the light of the lotus within his own heart. SB 11.27.48 : Whenever one develops faith in Me — in My form as the Deity or in other bona fide manifestations — one should worship Me in that form. I certainly exist both within all created beings and also separately in My original form, since I am the Supreme Soul of all. SB 11.27.49 : By worshiping Me through the various methods prescribed in the Vedas and tantras, one will gain from Me his desired perfection in both this life and the next . SB 11.27.50 : The devotee should more fully establish My Deity by solidly constructing a temple, along with beautiful gardens. These gardens should be set aside to provide flowers for the regular daily worship, special Deity processions and holiday observances. SB 11.27.51: One who offers the Deity gifts of land, markets, cities and villages so that the regular daily worship and special festivals of the Deity may go on continually will achieve opulence equal to My own. SB 11.27.52 : By installing the Deity of the Lord one becomes king of the entire earth, by building a temple for the Lord one becomes ruler of the three worlds, by worshiping and serving the Deity one goes to the planet of Lord Brahma and by performing all three of these activities one achieves a transcendental form like My own. SB 11.27.53: But one who simply engages in devotional service with no consideration of fruitive results attains Me . Thus whoever worships Me according to the process I have described will ultimately attain pure devotional service unto Me . SB 11.27.54 : Anyone who steals the property of the Devas or the brahmanas, whether originally given to them by himself or someone else, must live as a worm in stool for one hundred million years. SB 11.27.55 : Not only the performer of the theft but also anyone who assists him, instigates the crime, or simply approves of it must also share the reaction in the next life. According to their degree of participation, they each must suffer a proportionate consequence. MADHAVA SEVA IN A TEMPLE BECOMES MANAVA SEVA TOO Paramacharya Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswati Swamy said : " Every morning a handful of rice(uncooked) must be set apart for the poor. All the families must do this without fail every day . The rice thus kept must be collected from house to house, from quarter to quarter, cooked offered to the Deity of the local temple as " naivedya " and then distributed among the poor. With the handful of rice set apart for the poor, keep just one Rupee also. The Rupees collected from each family would be sufficient to buy salt, chilli powder, etc, to mix with the rice to make it more palatable. It would also serve to buy firewood and to pay the rent for the vessels. To carry out such a scheme is to do a great service to the poor - and to the Lord. Charity like this should encourage temple going, not to speak of devotion. Since the food is first offered as " naivedya " , it would mean that the poor will take it as prasadam which will impart them inner purity. " Annadan " or the gift of food is one kind of service of paropakara. We talk of service to the poor, social service and so on. Today all this is done with much fanfare and publicity. In the past the needy were served naturally, without making any noise. Service comes under " purta- dharma " and it includes digging wells and ponds for the public, feeding the poor, building temples for the spiritual well- being of people, laying our gardens. As we keep serving people in this way we will obtain inward purity . " Jagadguru K.K. Shankaracharya Swami wrote : " We enjoy the good things in life such as house, food, clothing, ornaments, music, dance, etc. We pay a tribute in the form of taxes to the king or to the government, for making it possible for us to enjoy them by giving us their protection. Even as we render homage to the king for the enjoyment of these things, we are bound to render our gratitude to God who has primarily given us the good things of life. We offer a part of these good things as a token of our gratitude to Him in the temple. We first offer to the Lord all that He has given to us in the shape of food, clothing, jewels, music, flowers, light, incense, etc., with the grateful consciousness that they are His gifts to us ; and we receive them back from Him as His PRASAAD. The temple is the place where these offerings are made on behalf of the collective community. Even if people do not go to the temple, it is enough if these offerings are made to God on behalf of the community. The duty of the people at the place is to see that these offerings are made in the proper manner. " CONCLUSION In addition to bringing the devotees closer to Bhagavan , Guruvayoor temple also help thousands of people by feeding them directly or indirectly . It is the duty of all devotees to contribute for the smooth running of temples ; and to remove public misunderstandings caused by unfounded allegations. Om Namo Narayanaya ! Krishnadaya -------------- guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: > > Dear Krishnadaya, > > It is quite some time that you hv not been heard in this Group.Here the question is not that of how the temples are administered or how the offerings of devotees > are utilised or what interests the devotees to make such offerings.As said that > depends on individual choices and there is no need to interfere.But regarding the > amounts collected by way of vazhipadus and how they are utilised nobody knows and that is also not our concern.The point is how such things can be correlated to the Bakthy concept?Do you wish to say that by offerings even though with full heart could be construed as Bhakthy?There are hundreds of people who just dump money in the hundi which has become a custom and not a way of expressing Bhakthy.I hv seen in all the big temples .big bundles of notes are deposited in the hundi and do you think that can be termed as bhakthy?or is it some type of bargaining?There are hundreds of people who never bother to contribute even token amounts to many deserving cases like the > Deaf and Dumb society,Blind society,Charitable institutions who run providing > succour to the orphans but they are prepared to put waddles of currencies in the hundis and as offerings as if God is in need of that.Why this change in their minds?Instead of dumping money in the hundis if they spend at least a portion to the needy,distressed people will not that bring them the Grace of God as all are His children and due to karma effects they hv born to suffer and giving them a helping hand,will not that please the God?It is said Manavaseva is Madhavaseva-when that is eloquently drummed up in platforms are all practicing > the same?By dumping money for the sake of upliftment of temples which are > already very rich what purpose does it serve when the teeming millions suffer in > desolation and despair?Do you not think that have nots shuld be protected by > those who hv the money power in the interest of God as all are His creatures? > Due to good karmas in the earlier births one may possess lot of wealth but shuld not the person think that the same shuld be distributed at least a portion > to the needy? > > I am not a preacher but I say from practical point of view and not to offend anybody.I know you hv enough knowledge to understand what I mean?You are also doing a great service and that too I know in your own way which is surely > laudable.As a Krishna bhaktha you shuld hv the compassion to the down trodden also.Of course the whole world can't be made into a paradise overnight > by doling out to the needy people but those who do even a bit will surely enjoy > great peace and the Grace of God as He is not for the rich and vainglorious people but for the poor,unsung people as He has demonstrated in the case of > Kuchela.If the devotee is the instrument of Bhagawan Krishna whyshuld He make him to be a slave to the material gains without thinking abt His own brothers and sisters who are also the instruments of Him.So that argument carries no weight.It s because there is an element of ego in the minds of His instruments also which even He finds it difficult to dilute.Again you say that Bhagawan will take care of running the temples.In what way?Is He the chairman of the administrative board?or is He giving directions?In your estimate how many temples come under the purview of GVR and Sabarimala temples? Are all the temples properly taken care of by the Boards of the GVR and Sabarimala? > > Another fun is your advice not to worry and be happy.There is no dearth for happiness in me as I always possess equanimity of mind never bothering abt accolades or derisions as I know that is all part of the game.By chanting Narayana with full faith will all the ills of the people automatically vanish?Then why shuld one go to the temple and make offerings instead of keeping quiet at home and chanting Narayana all the time.Since you and I know that the same is not practical as the same won't make the world move as even Krishna has said > do your duty without expecting rewards simply chanting won't lead anybody > anywhere unless the same is also accompanied by the duty,love and devotion > and compassion to the fellow beings.That is the only way to get the Mercy and Grace OF God and this what all the scriptures also enunciate.Even Vasudeva > Krishna also reiterates the same thing. > > Krishnadaya,don't get upset over what I hv said as it is not my intention to wound your feelings.You hv said what you think to be a method and I just said what I felt.That is all.As I know you are a great Krishna bhaktha and doing good > services in your own humble way I hv just taken some liberty to bring to your > attention that there are many things beyond our control as Hamlet used to say > in Othello,'Horatio,there are many wonders in this world than what you imagine'. > In essence what I mean by Bhakthy has nothing to do with the so called offerings and vazhipadus though the same are left to the choice of the devotees as I myself don't know whether I am a devotee or not and to what extent I hv > progressed in this field as it is an ocean and only God is the arbiter in such things.God Bless.. > > Hare Krishna, > agraman. > > > krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote: > Sri Guruvayoorappan saranam, > > A devotee is an instrument of the Bhagavan Sri Krishna ; and it is > the Lord's power that is acting through him/her. It is quite natural > that , a devotee is grateful to the Bhagavan for His kindness ; and > is always pleased to offer something in return. > > It is easy to criticise the Temple working systems in place , but > difficult to run it . There is no need for the devotee to worry about > the running of temple because Bhagavan is there to take care through > His own ways and means. > > The religious institutions of non-Hindu religions don't have any > public accountabilty whereas the Devaswam Boards are accountable to > Government. Most of the small temples are run from the income of > Guruvayoor and Sabarimala. > > So let us be positive in our approach . Don't worry, be happy!!!! > Just chant Om Namo Narayanaya and leave the rest to Bhagavan. > > A Bhaktan > > guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc money is > required but the point is who are the persons chalking out the > various vazhipadus and fixing rates?The temple authorities and not > God.If the temple authorities say that to > > run the temple money is required and hence donate your might they > won't get > > much but if they exhibit in boards that such and such vazhipadus > can bring this and that benefit people are glad to contribute whether > the same materialises or > > not and so the authorities are trying to display a long list to > collect funds in this way which has nothing to do with Bhakthy or > God.This trend has become in vogue during the past decades > only.Centuries back there were no such things. > > > > Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati attract devotees > in millions and > > in this way the coffers also can overflow by the so called > vazhipadus.A devotee > > is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar or plantain or > anything by paying the rates fixed by the administration thinking > that God is pleased with his offering, and the administration is > happy that their bank balances increase which > > can be utilised and misutilised for various things.This is > actually what is happening in big temples.On the otherhand there are > innumerable temples which don't hv any income even to offer neivedyam > to the Deity or having enough oil even to light the lamps.Why the > devotees don't flock to those temples also and > > do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can see the light of > the day.Is > > Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha sits only in > Sabarimalai when > > the all pervading God is in every atom and every idol why some > temples flourish and some suffer?Does that mean that people who go to > those less fortunate > > temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a custom that > everyday whatever > > money and other offerings come will be accounted before the Deity > in the night > > but it is not known how the money is being spent and whether the > Deity gives permission for all the expenses?There was even an attempt > years back that the > > amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds thereby > diverting the funds of the temple but due to the protest of the > devotees the idea was shelved. > > > > There is noting wrong in collecting money for the administration > of temple by > > means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected with Bhakthy as > there is no > > sanction from the Deity for the same and it is only the temple > administration fixes the same.Years back in GVR udayasthamana pooja > was fixed at Rs.5000 > > but now I don't know the amount but certainly it must be 50000 > and what is the > > guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The temple > administration members enjoy in all comforts from the so called > collections and that too everybody knows.Then how this collection can > be linked to ardent Bhakthy?Did the > > Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration to collect so > much money? > > So in the name of God all these are made.In a country like India > with more than a billion people there is always the tendency to > resort to superstitions in beliefs > > and the eagerness to know abt the future thru astrology.If there > is something > > wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an ashtamangalya > prasna is conducted.The astrologers say that God is furious because > the surroundings are polluted and the devotees are not havig proper > devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When the same is said > by media and people nobody bothers and when the astrologers say that > God is angry immedately steps are taken to ward > > off evils supposed to happen if the same are not done.Are they > not looking funny? > > > > My intention is not to fnd fault with anything that is going on > which everybody knows but the pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha > such things appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae > suffering for lack of funs why certain important temples alone take > the cakes when we accept that God is everywhere.There is no > explanation for this anamoly and the same will continue. > > So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple coffers can be > filled up but not lead one to Real Bhakthy.Was there such a system > during the days of Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days they > had so much love and > > devotion to God and never bothered abt other things..Now the > trend has changed and money takes the upper hand over Real > Bhakthy.What a pity? > > > > If anybody is offended by these comments I express regret as I hv > only stated what I felt and to enforce the fact that Bhakthy has > nothing to do with the so > > called offerings and the same depends on individual choices and > not on the > > choice of people running temple administration. > > > > > > Hare Krishna. > > > > > > hba9331 <pravin9@> wrote: > > Om Namo Narayanaya > > A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should > > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various > > questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have > > > > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does > > not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those > > goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed > it > > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the > > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various > employee. > > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh > > community where free service is also an offering. The give and take > > concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the > > day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if > the > > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently > when > > some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a > > child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when > > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would > > not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain > > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do > this > > and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc.. > > > > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good > > members in our forum. > > > > Narayana Narayana..... > > > > Pravin > > > > guruvayur , " K.V Gopalakrishna " > > <gopalakrishna.kv@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mataji, > > > Radhe Krishna! > > > > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what > > Shri > > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it > is > > a > > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he > > has been > > > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising > > his ego > > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has > > acquired is > > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word " also " > > > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible > for > > his > > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor > > and the > > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to > > reiterate > > > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one > wants > > to > > > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the > > efficacy > > > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the > > disease. But > > > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without > > that, no > > > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. > > People > > > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens > without > > > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own > > Karma. > > > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is > > required. > > > " Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave! " > > > > > > Promising to perform a particular " vazhipadu " to God if He > favours > > etc., > > > like performing a " Tulabharam " if one gets cured of his ailment > > etc., is > > > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise > > and > > > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured > > because > > > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is > > the > > > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other > > cured > > > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. > > But what > > > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone. > > > > > > Regards > > > KVG. > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote: > > > > > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan! > > > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the > > following > > > > sloka from Gita. > > > > > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna > > > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha > > > > Krishna says, > > > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the > > seeker > > > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for > > knowledge and > > > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in > God > > prays > > > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth > > or > > > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer > his > > > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not > > already > > > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not > > fulfilled.This > > > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from > > those > > > > who face disappointments in life. > > > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee > type > > of > > > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of > his > > > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani > > later, > > > > elevated to the status of dhruva star. > > > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge > when > > in > > > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch > > faith > > > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as > > mahavisvasam ,among > > > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for > > worldly > > > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life > > which > > > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life > > we do > > > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > > > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of > > the > > > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds > > of > > > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this. > > > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord > > Siva > > > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi > that > > the > > > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his > fate. > > > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and > said > > that > > > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his > karma > > being > > > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with > him > > Siva > > > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she > > should > > > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy > > without > > > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which > > the man > > > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did > > not > > > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death > > > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the > > pleasures > > > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing > > that > > > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava > and > > to > > > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of > > Bhakthi. A > > > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures > of > > life > > > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > > could > > > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > > acertain > > > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > > jignasu > > > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana > > which > > > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through > > someone > > > > as He did for Parikshit. > > > > > > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth > > about > > > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both > > bhakthas > > > > and jnanis. > > > > > > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya, > > > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > > > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously > > dropping > > > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, > > remembrance, > > > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus > > DHruvAsmrthi is > > > > prescribed as the means of liberation > > > > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May god bless you, > > > > > > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in > > sanskrit. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ------- > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co > > m/handraisers> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new > Click here > > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Well done Krishnadaya with your quotes from Bhagavatham.I wonder where I hv pinpointed the irrelevance of Sri Guruvayurappan.Perhaps you hv not studied my reply properly and not in a position to assimilate what I hv said.You might hv carried by the thought that I am against Sri Guruvayurappan.In that respect you are way away from the tangent and your Krishna Consciousness aspect might hv made you to think like that.Your quotes from Bhagavatham are laudable.I know what the late Paramacharya of Kanchi said abt the rice separation by each family but that was in a different context and I don't know that practice is still in existenceor not due to efflex of time and the indifference of the bhakthas.I am sure you may not be aware of this fact.The first para of your reply is sometype of vitriolic comment which is not justifiable.You hv quoted some thing which I hv never said- I mean the irrelevance of Sri Guruvayurappan.Of course there are many origanisations who collect funds and spend in whatever way they like.But just because they do it is it necessary all people shuld follow suit?Strange logic.Where did you find any adverse views of Sri Guruvayurappan? If you go thru my reply carefully you will find that I hv never said anything abt Sri Guruvayurappan but only said the plight of poor temples,downtrodden people,the reluctance of the rich to help the poor.At the same time that those are things which will bring the Grace and Mercy of the God,if some interest is shown to those aspects also.Under such circumstances though you hv taken pains to quote from Bhagavatham,a great effort,seem to be of only academic value when other pressing needs are not addressed.I know Annadhanam is performed in GVR,Tripati,Udipi etc.In Dharmasthala it is a great thing thruout the year.The same way many big temples hv such schemes and this is not confined to GVR only..Further I hv never weaned away the devotees from making anything in the form of vazhipadus and offerings when I hv said that all those things depend on individual choices.Hence your comments carries no weight though you may differ with my views the charge that I hv said something against Sri Guruvayurappan is really preposterous.I wonder how a Krishna bhaktha like you chose to write without studying what other person has said and write something from imagination..Even in the very first para I hv said the offerings,using funds etc are not our concern.Then where the shoe pinches?I hv covered generally of all the big temples and never confined myself to Guruvayur only.I stressed only the Bhakthy concept which has nothing to do with the offerings only.Anyways I don't want to prolong this issue and your devotion to Krishna thru Krishna Consciousness organisation must hv made you to say some thing.As a good friend I wish you well and you need not be depressed by such comments and carry on your duty according to the best of your conscience. God Bless. Hare Krishna, agraman. krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote: Sri Guruvayoorappan Saranam,My humble pranams to Sri Guruvayoorapppan and all His devotees ,I respect Sri Ganapathy Raman , but differ with him on those adverse views against Sri Guruvayoorappan's relevance. Millions of devotees have experienced the live presence of Lord Sri Krishna in Guruvayoor temple ; and His deity is not inactive like the Kelappan statue outside. Not even a leaf will move inside the temple against Bhagavan's wish ; and this has been time and again revealed through chosen sources. Each devotee is dear to Bhagavan and this relationship is dependent on his/her past karma and degree of devotion . As a humble worshipper of Sri Krishna's lotus feet , I am depending totally on the chanting of Narayana-nama for everything and from it's strength endeavor to follow Bhagavan 's advice :• Do your duty, to the best of your abilities, for Me without any selfish motive, and remember Me at all times - before starting a work, at the completion of a task, and while inactive. • Practice to look upon all creatures as Myself in thought, word, and deed ; and mentally bow down to them. • Although I the Supreme God, can never be captured by ordinary sense perception, My devotees may use their intelligence and perception (by bhakti-yoga) to directly search for Me through both apparent and indirect symptoms. • Awaken your dormant spiritual power (by bhakti-yoga)and perceive through the activities of mind, senses, breathing, and emotions that My power is within you at all times, and is constantly doing all the work using you as a mere instrument".PRESENT REALITIESIn this age of cut throat competition and selfishness , modern India ( ex- Bharatakhanda) as a nation has practically replaced it's sacred atmic approach with, hypocritical secularism (Godlessness) . Social work and charity have become big business these days ; and many of the related organizations fight each other to grab own scope in the event of a natural calamity . In certain cases , even spirituality is being marketed cleverly ; and the same people ask their followers not to donate to Guruvayoor temple . There is no accountability for the huge funds being collected by many anti-vedic social organizations and many of such funds are being used to destabilize this ancient country which is still a thorn in the flesh of anti-vedic forces . Guruvayoor temple remains as a ray of hope for the struggling vedic faith and associated social well being . SCRIPTURAL JUSTIFICATION for OFFERINGS BY DEVOTEESBhagavan Krishna advises Uddhava ( Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter no.11 ) on temple worship :SB 11.27.15 : One should worship Me in My Deity forms by offering the most excellent paraphernalia . But a devotee completely freed from material desire may worship Me with whatever he is able to obtain, and may even worship Me within his heart with mental paraphernalia.SB 11.27.16-17 : In worshiping the temple Deity, my dear Uddhava, bathing and decoration are the most pleasing offerings . For the Deity traced on sacred ground, the process of tattva-viny & #257;sais most dear. Oblations of sesame and barley soaked in ghee are the preferred offering to the sacrificial fire, whereas worship consisting of upasth & #257;na and arghya is preferred for the sun. One should worship Me in the form of water by offering water itself. Actually, whatever is offered to Me with faith by My devotee — even if only a little water —is most dear to Me.SB 11.27.18 : Even very opulent presentations do not satisfy Me if they are offered by nondevotees . But I am pleased by any insignificant offering made by My loving devotees, and I am certainly most pleased when nice presentations of fragrant oil, incense, flowers and palatable foods are offered with love.SB 11.27.32 : My devotee should then lovingly decorate Me with clothing, a brahmana thread, various ornaments, marks of tilaka and garlands, and he should anoint My body with fragrant oils, all in the prescribed manner.SB 11.27.33 : The worshiper should faithfully present Me with water for washing My feet and mouth, fragrant oils, flowers and unbroken grains, along with incense, lamps and other offerings.SB 11.27.34 : Within his means, the devotee should arrange to offer Me sugar candy, sweet rice, ghee, rice-flour cakes, various sweet cakes, steamed rice-flour dumplings filled with sweet coconut and sugar , wheat cakes made with ghee and milk and covered with sugar and spices], yogurt, vegetable soups and other palatable foods.SB 11.27.35 : On special occasions, and daily if possible, the Deity should be massaged with ointment, shown a mirror, offered a eucalyptus stick for brushing His teeth, bathed with the five kinds of nectar, offered all kinds of opulent foods, and entertained with singing and dancing.SB 11.27.44 : Singing along with others, chanting loudly and dancing, acting out My transcendental pastimes, and hearing and telling stories about Me, the devotee should for some time absorb himself in such festivity.SB 11.27.45 : The devotee should offer homage to the Lord with all kinds of hymns and prayers, both from the Pur & #257;n & #803;as and from other ancient scriptures, and also from ordinary traditions. Praying, "O Lord, please be merciful to me! "he should fall down flat like a rod to offer his obeisances.SB 11.27.46 : Placing his head at the feet of the Deity, he should then stand with folded hands before the Lord and pray, "O my Lord, please protect me, who am surrendered unto You. I am most fearful of this ocean of material existence, standing as I am in the mouth of death."SB 11.27.47 : Praying in this way, the devotee should respectfully place upon his head the remnants I offer to him. And if the particular Deity is meant to be sent away at the end of the worship, then this should be performed, the devotee once again placing the light of the Deity's presence inside the light of the lotus within his own heart.SB 11.27.48 : Whenever one develops faith in Me — in My form as the Deity or in other bona fide manifestations — one should worship Me in that form. I certainly exist both within all created beings and also separately in My original form, since I am the Supreme Soul of all.SB 11.27.49 : By worshiping Me through the various methods prescribed in the Vedas and tantras, one will gain from Me his desired perfection in both this life and the next .SB 11.27.50 : The devotee should more fully establish My Deity by solidly constructing a temple, along with beautiful gardens. These gardens should be set aside to provide flowers for the regular daily worship, special Deity processions and holiday observances.SB 11.27.51: One who offers the Deity gifts of land, markets, cities and villages so that the regular daily worship and special festivals of the Deity may go on continually will achieve opulence equal to My own.SB 11.27.52 : By installing the Deity of the Lord one becomes king of the entire earth, by building a temple for the Lord one becomes ruler of the three worlds, by worshiping and serving the Deity one goes to the planet of Lord Brahma and by performing all three of these activities one achieves a transcendental form like My own.SB 11.27.53: But one who simply engages in devotional service with no consideration of fruitive results attains Me . Thus whoever worships Me according to the process I have described will ultimately attain pure devotional service unto Me .SB 11.27.54 : Anyone who steals the property of the Devas or the brahmanas, whether originally given to them by himself or someone else, must live as a worm in stool for one hundred million years.SB 11.27.55 : Not only the performer of the theft but also anyone who assists him, instigates the crime, or simply approves of it must also share the reaction in the next life. According to their degree of participation, they each must suffer a proportionate consequence.MADHAVA SEVA IN A TEMPLE BECOMES MANAVA SEVA TOOParamacharya Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswati Swamy said : " Every morning a handful of rice(uncooked) must be set apart for the poor. All the families must do this without fail every day . The rice thus kept must be collected from house to house, from quarter to quarter, cooked offered to the Deity of the local temple as "naivedya" and then distributed among the poor. With the handful of rice set apart for the poor, keep just one Rupee also. The Rupees collected from each family would be sufficient to buy salt, chilli powder, etc, to mix with the rice to make it more palatable. It would also serve to buy firewood and to pay the rent for the vessels. To carry out such a scheme is to do a great service to the poor - and to the Lord. Charity like this should encourage temple going, not to speak of devotion. Since the food is first offered as "naivedya", it would mean that the poor will take it as prasadam which will impart them inner purity. "Annadan" or the gift of food is one kind of service of paropakara. We talk of service to the poor, social service and so on. Today all this is done with much fanfare and publicity. In the past the needy were served naturally, without making any noise. Service comes under "purta- dharma" and it includes digging wells and ponds for the public, feeding the poor, building temples for the spiritual well-being of people, laying our gardens. As we keep serving people in this way we will obtain inward purity . "Jagadguru K.K. Shankaracharya Swami wrote :" We enjoy the good things in life such as house, food, clothing, ornaments, music, dance, etc. We pay a tribute in the form of taxes to the king or to the government, for making it possible for us to enjoy them by giving us their protection. Even as we render homage to the king for the enjoyment of these things, we are bound to render our gratitude to God who has primarily given us the good things of life.We offer a part of these good things as a token of our gratitude to Him in the temple. We first offer to the Lord all that He has given to us in the shape of food, clothing, jewels, music, flowers, light, incense, etc., with the grateful consciousness that they are His gifts to us ; and we receive them back from Him as His PRASAAD. The temple is the place where these offerings are made on behalf of the collective community. Even if people do not go to the temple, it is enough if these offerings are made to God on behalf of the community. The duty of the people at the place is to see that these offerings are made in the proper manner."CONCLUSIONIn addition to bringing the devotees closer to Bhagavan , Guruvayoor temple also help thousands of people by feeding them directly or indirectly . It is the duty of all devotees to contribute for the smooth running of temples ; and to remove public misunderstandings caused by unfounded allegations.Om Namo Narayanaya !Krishnadaya--------------guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:>> Dear Krishnadaya,> > It is quite some time that you hv not been heard in this Group.Here the question is not that of how the temples are administered or how the offerings of devotees> are utilised or what interests the devotees to make such offerings.As said that > depends on individual choices and there is no need to interfere.But regarding the > amounts collected by way of vazhipadus and how they are utilised nobody knows and that is also not our concern.The point is how such things can be correlated to the Bakthy concept?Do you wish to say that by offerings even though with full heart could be construed as Bhakthy?There are hundreds of people who just dump money in the hundi which has become a custom and not a way of expressing Bhakthy.I hv seen in all the big temples .big bundles of notes are deposited in the hundi and do you think that can be termed as bhakthy?or is it some type of bargaining?There are hundreds of people who never bother to contribute even token amounts to many deserving cases like the > Deaf and Dumb society,Blind society,Charitable institutions who run providing> succour to the orphans but they are prepared to put waddles of currencies in the hundis and as offerings as if God is in need of that.Why this change in their minds?Instead of dumping money in the hundis if they spend at least a portion to the needy,distressed people will not that bring them the Grace of God as all are His children and due to karma effects they hv born to suffer and giving them a helping hand,will not that please the God?It is said Manavaseva is Madhavaseva-when that is eloquently drummed up in platforms are all practicing > the same?By dumping money for the sake of upliftment of temples which are > already very rich what purpose does it serve when the teeming millions suffer in > desolation and despair?Do you not think that have nots shuld be protected by> those who hv the money power in the interest of God as all are His creatures?> Due to good karmas in the earlier births one may possess lot of wealth but shuld not the person think that the same shuld be distributed at least a portion > to the needy?> > I am not a preacher but I say from practical point of view and not to offend anybody.I know you hv enough knowledge to understand what I mean?You are also doing a great service and that too I know in your own way which is surely> laudable.As a Krishna bhaktha you shuld hv the compassion to the down trodden also.Of course the whole world can't be made into a paradise overnight> by doling out to the needy people but those who do even a bit will surely enjoy> great peace and the Grace of God as He is not for the rich and vainglorious people but for the poor,unsung people as He has demonstrated in the case of> Kuchela.If the devotee is the instrument of Bhagawan Krishna whyshuld He make him to be a slave to the material gains without thinking abt His own brothers and sisters who are also the instruments of Him.So that argument carries no weight.It s because there is an element of ego in the minds of His instruments also which even He finds it difficult to dilute.Again you say that Bhagawan will take care of running the temples.In what way?Is He the chairman of the administrative board?or is He giving directions?In your estimate how many temples come under the purview of GVR and Sabarimala temples?Are all the temples properly taken care of by the Boards of the GVR and Sabarimala?> > Another fun is your advice not to worry and be happy.There is no dearth for happiness in me as I always possess equanimity of mind never bothering abt accolades or derisions as I know that is all part of the game.By chanting Narayana with full faith will all the ills of the people automatically vanish?Then why shuld one go to the temple and make offerings instead of keeping quiet at home and chanting Narayana all the time.Since you and I know that the same is not practical as the same won't make the world move as even Krishna has said > do your duty without expecting rewards simply chanting won't lead anybody > anywhere unless the same is also accompanied by the duty,love and devotion> and compassion to the fellow beings.That is the only way to get the Mercy and Grace OF God and this what all the scriptures also enunciate.Even Vasudeva> Krishna also reiterates the same thing.> > Krishnadaya,don't get upset over what I hv said as it is not my intention to wound your feelings.You hv said what you think to be a method and I just said what I felt.That is all.As I know you are a great Krishna bhaktha and doing good > services in your own humble way I hv just taken some liberty to bring to your > attention that there are many things beyond our control as Hamlet used to say > in Othello,'Horatio,there are many wonders in this world than what you imagine'.> In essence what I mean by Bhakthy has nothing to do with the so called offerings and vazhipadus though the same are left to the choice of the devotees as I myself don't know whether I am a devotee or not and to what extent I hv > progressed in this field as it is an ocean and only God is the arbiter in such things.God Bless..> > Hare Krishna,> agraman.> > > krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote:> Sri Guruvayoorappan saranam,> > A devotee is an instrument of the Bhagavan Sri Krishna ; and it is > the Lord's power that is acting through him/her. It is quite natural > that , a devotee is grateful to the Bhagavan for His kindness ; and > is always pleased to offer something in return. > > It is easy to criticise the Temple working systems in place , but > difficult to run it . There is no need for the devotee to worry about > the running of temple because Bhagavan is there to take care through > His own ways and means. > > The religious institutions of non-Hindu religions don't have any > public accountabilty whereas the Devaswam Boards are accountable to > Government. Most of the small temples are run from the income of > Guruvayoor and Sabarimala. > > So let us be positive in our approach . Don't worry, be happy!!!!> Just chant Om Namo Narayanaya and leave the rest to Bhagavan.> > A Bhaktan> > guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62@> > wrote:> >> > > > > > Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc money is > required but the point is who are the persons chalking out the > various vazhipadus and fixing rates?The temple authorities and not > God.If the temple authorities say that to > > run the temple money is required and hence donate your might they > won't get > > much but if they exhibit in boards that such and such vazhipadus > can bring this and that benefit people are glad to contribute whether > the same materialises or> > not and so the authorities are trying to display a long list to > collect funds in this way which has nothing to do with Bhakthy or > God.This trend has become in vogue during the past decades > only.Centuries back there were no such things.> > > > Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati attract devotees > in millions and> > in this way the coffers also can overflow by the so called > vazhipadus.A devotee > > is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar or plantain or > anything by paying the rates fixed by the administration thinking > that God is pleased with his offering, and the administration is > happy that their bank balances increase which > > can be utilised and misutilised for various things.This is > actually what is happening in big temples.On the otherhand there are > innumerable temples which don't hv any income even to offer neivedyam > to the Deity or having enough oil even to light the lamps.Why the > devotees don't flock to those temples also and> > do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can see the light of > the day.Is> > Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha sits only in > Sabarimalai when > > the all pervading God is in every atom and every idol why some > temples flourish and some suffer?Does that mean that people who go to > those less fortunate > > temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a custom that > everyday whatever > > money and other offerings come will be accounted before the Deity > in the night> > but it is not known how the money is being spent and whether the > Deity gives permission for all the expenses?There was even an attempt > years back that the > > amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds thereby > diverting the funds of the temple but due to the protest of the > devotees the idea was shelved.> > > > There is noting wrong in collecting money for the administration > of temple by > > means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected with Bhakthy as > there is no> > sanction from the Deity for the same and it is only the temple > administration fixes the same.Years back in GVR udayasthamana pooja > was fixed at Rs.5000> > but now I don't know the amount but certainly it must be 50000 > and what is the > > guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The temple > administration members enjoy in all comforts from the so called > collections and that too everybody knows.Then how this collection can > be linked to ardent Bhakthy?Did the > > Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration to collect so > much money?> > So in the name of God all these are made.In a country like India > with more than a billion people there is always the tendency to > resort to superstitions in beliefs> > and the eagerness to know abt the future thru astrology.If there > is something > > wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an ashtamangalya > prasna is conducted.The astrologers say that God is furious because > the surroundings are polluted and the devotees are not havig proper > devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When the same is said > by media and people nobody bothers and when the astrologers say that > God is angry immedately steps are taken to ward > > off evils supposed to happen if the same are not done.Are they > not looking funny?> > > > My intention is not to fnd fault with anything that is going on > which everybody knows but the pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha > such things appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae > suffering for lack of funs why certain important temples alone take > the cakes when we accept that God is everywhere.There is no > explanation for this anamoly and the same will continue.> > So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple coffers can be > filled up but not lead one to Real Bhakthy.Was there such a system > during the days of Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days they > had so much love and > > devotion to God and never bothered abt other things..Now the > trend has changed and money takes the upper hand over Real > Bhakthy.What a pity?> > > > If anybody is offended by these comments I express regret as I hv > only stated what I felt and to enforce the fact that Bhakthy has > nothing to do with the so > > called offerings and the same depends on individual choices and > not on the > > choice of people running temple administration.> > > > > > Hare Krishna.> > > > > > hba9331 <pravin9@> wrote:> > Om Namo Narayanaya> > A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should > > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various > > questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have> > > > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does > > not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those > > goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed > it > > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the > > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various > employee. > > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh > > community where free service is also an offering. The give and take > > concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the > > day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if > the > > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently > when > > some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as a > > child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even when > > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it would > > not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain > > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do > this > > and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc..> > > > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good > > members in our forum.> > > > Narayana Narayana.....> > > > Pravin> > > > guruvayur , "K.V Gopalakrishna" > > <gopalakrishna.kv@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Mataji,> > > Radhe Krishna!> > > > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what > > Shri > > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it > is > > a > > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he > > has been > > > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising > > his ego > > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has > > acquired is > > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word "also" > > > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible > for > > his > > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor > > and the > > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to > > reiterate > > > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one > wants > > to > > > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the > > efficacy > > > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the > > disease. But > > > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without > > that, no > > > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. > > People > > > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens > without > > > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own > > Karma. > > > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is > > required. > > > "Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave!"> > > > > > Promising to perform a particular "vazhipadu" to God if He > favours > > etc., > > > like performing a "Tulabharam" if one gets cured of his ailment > > etc., is > > > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise > > and > > > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured > > because > > > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is > > the > > > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the other > > cured > > > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. > > But what > > > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone.> > > > > > Regards> > > KVG.> > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote:> > > > > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan!> > > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the > > following > > > > sloka from Gita.> > > > > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna> > > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha> > > > Krishna says,> > > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the > > seeker > > > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for > > knowledge and > > > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in > God > > prays > > > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the world,wealth > > or > > > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer > his > > > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has not > > already > > > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not > > fulfilled.This > > > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from > > those > > > > who face disappointments in life.> > > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee > type > > of > > > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of > his > > > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a jnani > > later, > > > > elevated to the status of dhruva star.> > > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge > when > > in > > > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch > > faith > > > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as > > mahavisvasam ,among > > > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for > > worldly > > > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life > > which > > > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal life > > we do > > > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him and > > > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance of > > the > > > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four kinds > > of > > > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this.> > > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and Lord > > Siva > > > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi > that > > the > > > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his > fate. > > > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and > said > > that > > > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his > karma > > being > > > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with > him > > Siva > > > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she > > should > > > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy > > without > > > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on which > > the man > > > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he did > > not > > > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death> > > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the > > pleasures > > > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only thing > > that > > > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava > and > > to > > > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of > > Bhakthi. A > > > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures > of > > life > > > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > > could > > > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > > acertain > > > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > > jignasu > > > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the jnana > > which > > > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through > > someone > > > > as He did for Parikshit.> > > > > > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the truth > > about > > > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both > > bhakthas > > > > and jnanis.> > > > > > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya,> > > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna roopam,' > > > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously > > dropping > > > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, > > remembrance, > > > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus > > DHruvAsmrthi is > > > > prescribed as the means of liberation> > > > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > .> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > May god bless you,> > > > > > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in > > sanskrit.> > > > > > > >> > > > -------------------------> > -------> > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co> > m/handraisers> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new > Click here> > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here> >> > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here> Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here> India Answers: Share what you know. 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Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Sri Guruvayoorappan saranam, I respect Sri. Ganapathy Raman ; and the focus is entirely on the topic only and not the individuals discussing it . I wish to explain further as follows . 1. RELEVANCE OF SRI GURUVAYOORAPPAN QUOTE " Again you say that Bhagawan will take care of running the temples. In what way. ?Is He the chairman of the administrative board ?or is He giving directions?. By chanting Narayana with full faith will all the ills of the people automatically vanish?. Then why should one go to the temple and make offerings instead of keeping quiet at home and chanting Narayana all the time. " UNQUOTE Guruvayoorappan is a highly interactive Deity ; and He is in overall control of the temple . ( For instance, when Tippu sultan's army set fire to the Temple, it was saved due to timely rain ; and when fire broke out in 1970, the Chuttambalam was only 3 yards off, but still the fierce fire did not touch even the dry flower garlands, which hung on the corner of the Sreekovil .) Occasionally people having bad karma might cause a few problems for some time ; but the end of storey is not in their favour. Reliable sources , closely associated with the temple, have confirmed Bhagavan's revelations through Devaprasna, chosen devotees, Tantris, Pujaris ,etc ; and the crushing of culprits by strange coincidences . The bhakti-yoga of ordinary devotees are based on Krishna's nama- sankirtana and temple- worship . And their Atmic progress comes from the efficacy of chanting Narayana-nama . Consequently , they get rightly situated in `saranagati' ; and lead a life as Bhagavan's insbeing guided by the Bhagavan through ` nimithams' ( symptoms). 2. GREAT SERVICES BY GURUVAYOOR TEMPLE The offerings of devotees enable Guruavayoor temple to operate to the vedic rules and to undertake numerous schemes for vedic ,charity, educational and cultural activities. A few of the several activities undertaken by Guruvayoor temple are given below : • Annadana every day for around 1500 persons. On special days like Ashtami Rohini, Onam, Utsavam etc, around 10000-15000 devotees take food here. • Every year Guruvayoor temple spends a significant portion of it's surplus income for assisting the financially backward temples in Kerala. • Every day food is sent to about 200 persons of the Municipal orphanage and 100 children of the Kasthurbha child orphanage in the Guruvayur Munucipality . • Krishnanattam kalari ( training institute). • Vedic publications . • Cultural programs . • Educational institutions. • Medical facilities . We all know how difficult and expensive it is to conduct a vedic puja or a feast . As such just imagine the complexities involved in operating a huge Vedic institution like Guruvayoor temple, the abode of Sri Krishna . In 1766 AD , tyrant Hyder Ali of Mysore captured the kingdom of Calicut ; and due to insecurity pilgrims receded in Guruvayoor. The supply of rice was stopped and the tenants stopped annual dues. It was only due to Krishna's grace in the form of intervention by Malabar Governor that the temple was saved from extinction. This explains the relevance of offerings by devotees. Muslims and Christians do have well organized Madrasas and Sunday schools respectively to provide religious education to their children . All what vedic believers have is temples . In a recent press release, it is said that the Travancore Devaswom board has 1200 temples under it's control out of which only 85 are self sufficient whereas the remaining are surviving form the funds coming from the surplus income at Sabarimala and a few other major temples. If the Hindu temple goers don't donate , who will finance to keep alive the struggling vedic temples ????. CHARITY (by Devotees) Krishna's devotee is like a flower . When he blossoms in kirshna- bhakty , the sweet aroma of sattvic compassion spreads around ; and Bhagavan utilizes him most appropriately . The related benefits flow to the needy ones through Sri Krishna's grace ; as arranged for by Bhagavan Himself . For instance , the rice collection proposed by Paramacharya is still happening in the form of sponsored annadana in Krishna temples . Opportunities to help others comes as a part of the service to Sri Krishna , provided one is honest about his `saranagati ` ; and a true devotee of Krishna doesn't fail to spend part of his/her earnings to help the needy on behalf of Bhagavan . Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya !!! Krishnadaya. ------------------------ guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: > > Well done Krishnadaya with your quotes from Bhagavatham.I wonder where I hv pinpointed the irrelevance of Sri Guruvayurappan.Perhaps you hv not studied my reply properly and not in a position to assimilate what I hv said.You might hv carried by the thought that I am against Sri Guruvayurappan.In that respect you are way away from the tangent and your Krishna Consciousness aspect might > hv made you to think like that.Your quotes from Bhagavatham are laudable.I know what the late Paramacharya of Kanchi said abt the rice separation by each family but that was in a different context and I don't know that practice is still in existenceor not due to efflex of time and the indifference of the bhakthas.I am sure you may not be aware of this fact.The first para of your reply is sometype of vitriolic comment which is not justifiable.You hv quoted some thing which I hv never said- I mean the irrelevance of Sri Guruvayurappan.Of course there are many origanisations who collect funds and spend in whatever way they like.But just because they do it is it necessary all people shuld follow suit?Strange logic.Where did you find any adverse views of Sri Guruvayurappan? > > If you go thru my reply carefully you will find that I hv never said anything abt Sri Guruvayurappan but only said the plight of poor temples,downtrodden people,the > reluctance of the rich to help the poor.At the same time that those are things which will bring the Grace and Mercy of the God,if some interest is shown to those aspects also.Under such circumstances though you hv taken pains to quote from Bhagavatham,a great effort,seem to be of only academic value when > other pressing needs are not addressed.I know Annadhanam is performed in GVR,Tripati,Udipi etc.In Dharmasthala it is a great thing thruout the year.The same way many big temples hv such schemes and this is not confined to GVR only..Further I hv never weaned away the devotees from making anything in the > form of vazhipadus and offerings when I hv said that all those things depend on individual choices.Hence your comments carries no weight though you may differ with my views the charge that I hv said something against Sri Guruvayurappan is really preposterous.I wonder how a Krishna bhaktha like you chose to write without studying what other person has said and write something > from imagination..Even in the very first para I hv said the offerings,using funds etc are not our concern.Then where the shoe pinches?I hv covered generally of all the big temples and never confined myself to Guruvayur only.I stressed only the Bhakthy concept which has nothing to do with the offerings only.Anyways I > don't want to prolong this issue and your devotion to Krishna thru Krishna Consciousness organisation must hv made you to say some thing.As a good friend I wish you well and you need not be depressed by such comments and carry on your duty according to the best of your conscience. God Bless. > > Hare Krishna, > > agraman. > > krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote: > > Sri Guruvayoorappan Saranam, > > My humble pranams to Sri Guruvayoorapppan and all His devotees , > > I respect Sri Ganapathy Raman , but differ with him on those adverse > views against Sri Guruvayoorappan's relevance. Millions of devotees > have experienced the live presence of Lord Sri Krishna in Guruvayoor > temple ; and His deity is not inactive like the Kelappan statue > outside. Not even a leaf will move inside the temple against > Bhagavan's wish ; and this has been time and again revealed > through chosen sources. > > Each devotee is dear to Bhagavan and this relationship is dependent > on his/her past karma and degree of devotion . As a humble worshipper > of Sri Krishna's lotus feet , I am depending totally on the chanting > of Narayana-nama for everything and from it's strength endeavor to > follow Bhagavan 's advice : > • Do your duty, to the best of your abilities, for Me without > any selfish motive, and remember Me at all times - before starting a > work, at the completion of a task, and while inactive. > • Practice to look upon all creatures as Myself in thought, > word, and deed ; and mentally bow down to them. > • Although I the Supreme God, can never be captured by ordinary > sense perception, My devotees may use their intelligence and > perception (by bhakti-yoga) to directly search for Me through both > apparent and indirect symptoms. > • Awaken your dormant spiritual power (by bhakti-yoga)and > perceive through the activities of mind, senses, breathing, and > emotions that My power is within you at all times, and is constantly > doing all the work using you as a mere instrument " . > > PRESENT REALITIES > > In this age of cut throat competition and selfishness , modern India > ( ex- Bharatakhanda) as a nation has practically replaced it's > sacred atmic approach with, hypocritical secularism (Godlessness) . > > Social work and charity have become big business these days ; and > many of the related organizations fight each other to grab own scope > in the event of a natural calamity . In certain cases , even > spirituality is being marketed cleverly ; and the same people ask > their followers not to donate to Guruvayoor temple . > > There is no accountability for the huge funds being collected by many > anti-vedic social organizations and many of such funds are being used > to destabilize this ancient country which is still a thorn in the > flesh of anti-vedic forces . > > Guruvayoor temple remains as a ray of hope for the struggling vedic > faith and associated social well being . > > SCRIPTURAL JUSTIFICATION for OFFERINGS BY DEVOTEES > > Bhagavan Krishna advises Uddhava ( Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter no.11 ) > on temple worship : > > SB 11.27.15 : One should worship Me in My Deity forms by offering the > most excellent paraphernalia . But a devotee completely freed from > material desire may worship Me with whatever he is able to obtain, > and may even worship Me within his heart with mental paraphernalia. > > SB 11.27.16-17 : In worshiping the temple Deity, my dear Uddhava, > bathing and decoration are the most pleasing offerings . For the > Deity traced on sacred ground, the process of tattva-viny & #257;sais most > dear. Oblations of sesame and barley soaked in ghee are the preferred > offering to the sacrificial fire, whereas worship consisting of > upasth & #257;na and arghya is preferred for the sun. One should worship Me > in the form of water by offering water itself. Actually, whatever is > offered to Me with faith by My devotee — even if only a little water — > is most dear to Me. > > SB 11.27.18 : Even very opulent presentations do not satisfy Me if > they are offered by nondevotees . But I am pleased by any > insignificant offering made by My loving devotees, and I am certainly > most pleased when nice presentations of fragrant oil, incense, > flowers and palatable foods are offered with love. > > SB 11.27.32 : My devotee should then lovingly decorate Me with > clothing, a brahmana thread, various ornaments, marks of tilaka and > garlands, and he should anoint My body with fragrant oils, all in the > prescribed manner. > > SB 11.27.33 : The worshiper should faithfully present Me with water > for washing My feet and mouth, fragrant oils, flowers and unbroken > grains, along with incense, lamps and other offerings. > > SB 11.27.34 : Within his means, the devotee should arrange to offer > Me sugar candy, sweet rice, ghee, rice-flour cakes, various sweet > cakes, steamed rice-flour dumplings filled with sweet coconut and > sugar , wheat cakes made with ghee and milk and covered with sugar > and spices], yogurt, vegetable soups and other palatable foods. > > SB 11.27.35 : On special occasions, and daily if possible, the Deity > should be massaged with ointment, shown a mirror, offered a > eucalyptus stick for brushing His teeth, bathed with the five kinds > of nectar, offered all kinds of opulent foods, and entertained with > singing and dancing. > > SB 11.27.44 : Singing along with others, chanting loudly and dancing, > acting out My transcendental pastimes, and hearing and telling > stories about Me, the devotee should for some time absorb himself in > such festivity. > > SB 11.27.45 : The devotee should offer homage to the Lord with all > kinds of hymns and prayers, both from the Pur & #257;n & #803;as and from other > ancient scriptures, and also from ordinary traditions. Praying, " O > Lord, please be merciful to me! " he should fall down flat like a rod > to offer his obeisances. > > SB 11.27.46 : Placing his head at the feet of the Deity, he should > then stand with folded hands before the Lord and pray, " O my Lord, > please protect me, who am surrendered unto You. I am most fearful of > this ocean of material existence, standing as I am in the mouth of > death. " > > SB 11.27.47 : Praying in this way, the devotee should respectfully > place upon his head the remnants I offer to him. And if the > particular Deity is meant to be sent away at the end of the worship, > then this should be performed, the devotee once again placing the > light of the Deity's presence inside the light of the lotus within > his own heart. > > SB 11.27.48 : Whenever one develops faith in Me — in My form as the > Deity or in other bona fide manifestations — one should worship Me in > that form. I certainly exist both within all created beings and also > separately in My original form, since I am the Supreme Soul of all. > > SB 11.27.49 : By worshiping Me through the various methods prescribed > in the Vedas and tantras, one will gain from Me his desired > perfection in both this life and the next . > > SB 11.27.50 : The devotee should more fully establish My Deity by > solidly constructing a temple, along with beautiful gardens. These > gardens should be set aside to provide flowers for the regular daily > worship, special Deity processions and holiday observances. > > SB 11.27.51: One who offers the Deity gifts of land, markets, cities > and villages so that the regular daily worship and special festivals > of the Deity may go on continually will achieve opulence equal to My > own. > > SB 11.27.52 : By installing the Deity of the Lord one becomes king of > the entire earth, by building a temple for the Lord one becomes ruler > of the three worlds, by worshiping and serving the Deity one goes to > the planet of Lord Brahma and by performing all three of these > activities one achieves a transcendental form like My own. > > SB 11.27.53: But one who simply engages in devotional service with no > consideration of fruitive results attains Me . Thus whoever worships > Me according to the process I have described will ultimately attain > pure devotional service unto Me . > > SB 11.27.54 : Anyone who steals the property of the Devas or the > brahmanas, whether originally given to them by himself or someone > else, must live as a worm in stool for one hundred million years. > > SB 11.27.55 : Not only the performer of the theft but also anyone who > assists him, instigates the crime, or simply approves of it must also > share the reaction in the next life. According to their degree of > participation, they each must suffer a proportionate consequence. > > MADHAVA SEVA IN A TEMPLE BECOMES MANAVA SEVA TOO > > Paramacharya Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswati Swamy said : > " Every morning a handful of rice(uncooked) must be set apart for the > poor. All the families must do this without fail every day . The rice > thus kept must be collected from house to house, from quarter to > quarter, cooked offered to the Deity of the local temple > as " naivedya " and then distributed among the poor. With the handful > of rice set apart for the poor, keep just one Rupee also. The Rupees > collected from each family would be sufficient to buy salt, chilli > powder, etc, to mix with the rice to make it more palatable. It would > also serve to buy firewood and to pay the rent for the vessels. To > carry out such a scheme is to do a great service to the poor - and to > the Lord. Charity like this should encourage temple going, not to > speak of devotion. Since the food is first offered as " naivedya " , it > would mean that the poor will take it as prasadam which will impart > them inner purity. > " Annadan " or the gift of food is one kind of service of paropakara. > We talk of service to the poor, social service and so on. Today all > this is done with much fanfare and publicity. In the past the needy > were served naturally, without making any noise. Service comes > under " purta- dharma " and it includes digging wells and ponds for the > public, feeding the poor, building temples for the spiritual well- > being of people, laying our gardens. As we keep serving people in > this way we will obtain inward purity . " > > Jagadguru K.K. Shankaracharya Swami wrote : > > " We enjoy the good things in life such as house, food, clothing, > ornaments, music, dance, etc. We pay a tribute in the form of taxes > to the king or to the government, for making it possible for us to > enjoy them by giving us their protection. Even as we render homage to > the king for the enjoyment of these things, we are bound to render > our gratitude to God who has > primarily given us the good things of life. > > We offer a part of these good things as a token of our gratitude to > Him in the temple. We first offer to the Lord all that He has given > to us in the shape of food, clothing, jewels, music, flowers, light, > incense, etc., with the grateful consciousness that they are His > gifts to us ; and we receive them back from Him as His PRASAAD. The > temple is the place where these offerings are made on behalf of the > collective community. Even if people do not go to the temple, it is > enough if these offerings are made to God on behalf of the community. > The duty of the people at the place is to see that these offerings > are made in the proper manner. " > > CONCLUSION > > In addition to bringing the devotees closer to Bhagavan , Guruvayoor > temple also help thousands of people by feeding them directly or > indirectly . It is the duty of all devotees to contribute for the > smooth running of temples ; and to remove public misunderstandings > caused by unfounded allegations. > > Om Namo Narayanaya ! > > Krishnadaya > > -------------- > guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Krishnadaya, > > > > It is quite some time that you hv not been heard in this > Group.Here the question is not that of how the temples are > administered or how the offerings of devotees > > are utilised or what interests the devotees to make such > offerings.As said that > > depends on individual choices and there is no need to > interfere.But regarding the > > amounts collected by way of vazhipadus and how they are utilised > nobody knows and that is also not our concern.The point is how such > things can be correlated to the Bakthy concept?Do you wish to say > that by offerings even though with full heart could be construed as > Bhakthy?There are hundreds of people who just dump money in the hundi > which has become a custom and not a way of expressing Bhakthy.I hv > seen in all the big temples .big bundles of notes are deposited in > the hundi and do you think that can be termed as bhakthy?or is it > some type of bargaining?There are hundreds of people who never bother > to contribute even token amounts to many deserving cases like the > > Deaf and Dumb society,Blind society,Charitable institutions who > run providing > > succour to the orphans but they are prepared to put waddles of > currencies in the hundis and as offerings as if God is in need of > that.Why this change in their minds?Instead of dumping money in the > hundis if they spend at least a portion to the needy,distressed > people will not that bring them the Grace of God as all are His > children and due to karma effects they hv born to suffer and giving > them a helping hand,will not that please the God?It is said > Manavaseva is Madhavaseva-when that is eloquently drummed up in > platforms are all practicing > > the same?By dumping money for the sake of upliftment of temples > which are > > already very rich what purpose does it serve when the teeming > millions suffer in > > desolation and despair?Do you not think that have nots shuld be > protected by > > those who hv the money power in the interest of God as all are > His creatures? > > Due to good karmas in the earlier births one may possess lot of > wealth but shuld not the person think that the same shuld be > distributed at least a portion > > to the needy? > > > > I am not a preacher but I say from practical point of view and > not to offend anybody.I know you hv enough knowledge to understand > what I mean?You are also doing a great service and that too I know in > your own way which is surely > > laudable.As a Krishna bhaktha you shuld hv the compassion to the > down trodden also.Of course the whole world can't be made into a > paradise overnight > > by doling out to the needy people but those who do even a bit > will surely enjoy > > great peace and the Grace of God as He is not for the rich and > vainglorious people but for the poor,unsung people as He has > demonstrated in the case of > > Kuchela.If the devotee is the instrument of Bhagawan Krishna > whyshuld He make him to be a slave to the material gains without > thinking abt His own brothers and sisters who are also the > instruments of Him.So that argument carries no weight.It s because > there is an element of ego in the minds of His instruments also which > even He finds it difficult to dilute.Again you say that Bhagawan will > take care of running the temples.In what way?Is He the chairman of > the administrative board?or is He giving directions?In your estimate > how many temples come under the purview of GVR and Sabarimala temples? > Are all the temples properly taken care of by the Boards of the GVR > and Sabarimala? > > > > Another fun is your advice not to worry and be happy.There is no > dearth for happiness in me as I always possess equanimity of mind > never bothering abt accolades or derisions as I know that is all part > of the game.By chanting Narayana with full faith will all the ills of > the people automatically vanish?Then why shuld one go to the temple > and make offerings instead of keeping quiet at home and chanting > Narayana all the time.Since you and I know that the same is not > practical as the same won't make the world move as even Krishna has > said > > do your duty without expecting rewards simply chanting won't lead > anybody > > anywhere unless the same is also accompanied by the duty,love and > devotion > > and compassion to the fellow beings.That is the only way to get > the Mercy and Grace OF God and this what all the scriptures also > enunciate.Even Vasudeva > > Krishna also reiterates the same thing. > > > > Krishnadaya,don't get upset over what I hv said as it is not my > intention to wound your feelings.You hv said what you think to be a > method and I just said what I felt.That is all.As I know you are a > great Krishna bhaktha and doing good > > services in your own humble way I hv just taken some liberty to > bring to your > > attention that there are many things beyond our control as Hamlet > used to say > > in Othello,'Horatio,there are many wonders in this world than > what you imagine'. > > In essence what I mean by Bhakthy has nothing to do with the so > called offerings and vazhipadus though the same are left to the > choice of the devotees as I myself don't know whether I am a devotee > or not and to what extent I hv > > progressed in this field as it is an ocean and only God is the > arbiter in such things.God Bless.. > > > > Hare Krishna, > > agraman. > > > > > > krishnadaya <krishnadaya@> wrote: > > Sri Guruvayoorappan saranam, > > > > A devotee is an instrument of the Bhagavan Sri Krishna ; and it is > > the Lord's power that is acting through him/her. It is quite > natural > > that , a devotee is grateful to the Bhagavan for His kindness ; and > > is always pleased to offer something in return. > > > > It is easy to criticise the Temple working systems in place , but > > difficult to run it . There is no need for the devotee to worry > about > > the running of temple because Bhagavan is there to take care > through > > His own ways and means. > > > > The religious institutions of non-Hindu religions don't have any > > public accountabilty whereas the Devaswam Boards are accountable to > > Government. Most of the small temples are run from the income of > > Guruvayoor and Sabarimala. > > > > So let us be positive in our approach . Don't worry, be happy!!!! > > Just chant Om Namo Narayanaya and leave the rest to Bhagavan. > > > > A Bhaktan > > > > guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc money is > > required but the point is who are the persons chalking out the > > various vazhipadus and fixing rates?The temple authorities and not > > God.If the temple authorities say that to > > > run the temple money is required and hence donate your might they > > won't get > > > much but if they exhibit in boards that such and such vazhipadus > > can bring this and that benefit people are glad to contribute > whether > > the same materialises or > > > not and so the authorities are trying to display a long list to > > collect funds in this way which has nothing to do with Bhakthy or > > God.This trend has become in vogue during the past decades > > only.Centuries back there were no such things. > > > > > > Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati attract devotees > > in millions and > > > in this way the coffers also can overflow by the so called > > vazhipadus.A devotee > > > is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar or plantain or > > anything by paying the rates fixed by the administration thinking > > that God is pleased with his offering, and the administration is > > happy that their bank balances increase which > > > can be utilised and misutilised for various things.This is > > actually what is happening in big temples.On the otherhand there > are > > innumerable temples which don't hv any income even to offer > neivedyam > > to the Deity or having enough oil even to light the lamps.Why the > > devotees don't flock to those temples also and > > > do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can see the light of > > the day.Is > > > Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha sits only in > > Sabarimalai when > > > the all pervading God is in every atom and every idol why some > > temples flourish and some suffer?Does that mean that people who go > to > > those less fortunate > > > temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a custom that > > everyday whatever > > > money and other offerings come will be accounted before the Deity > > in the night > > > but it is not known how the money is being spent and whether the > > Deity gives permission for all the expenses?There was even an > attempt > > years back that the > > > amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds thereby > > diverting the funds of the temple but due to the protest of the > > devotees the idea was shelved. > > > > > > There is noting wrong in collecting money for the administration > > of temple by > > > means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected with Bhakthy as > > there is no > > > sanction from the Deity for the same and it is only the temple > > administration fixes the same.Years back in GVR udayasthamana pooja > > was fixed at Rs.5000 > > > but now I don't know the amount but certainly it must be 50000 > > and what is the > > > guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The temple > > administration members enjoy in all comforts from the so called > > collections and that too everybody knows.Then how this collection > can > > be linked to ardent Bhakthy?Did the > > > Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration to collect so > > much money? > > > So in the name of God all these are made.In a country like India > > with more than a billion people there is always the tendency to > > resort to superstitions in beliefs > > > and the eagerness to know abt the future thru astrology.If there > > is something > > > wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an ashtamangalya > > prasna is conducted.The astrologers say that God is furious because > > the surroundings are polluted and the devotees are not havig proper > > devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When the same is > said > > by media and people nobody bothers and when the astrologers say > that > > God is angry immedately steps are taken to ward > > > off evils supposed to happen if the same are not done.Are they > > not looking funny? > > > > > > My intention is not to fnd fault with anything that is going on > > which everybody knows but the pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha > > such things appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae > > suffering for lack of funs why certain important temples alone take > > the cakes when we accept that God is everywhere.There is no > > explanation for this anamoly and the same will continue. > > > So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple coffers can be > > filled up but not lead one to Real Bhakthy.Was there such a system > > during the days of Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days > they > > had so much love and > > > devotion to God and never bothered abt other things..Now the > > trend has changed and money takes the upper hand over Real > > Bhakthy.What a pity? > > > > > > If anybody is offended by these comments I express regret as I hv > > only stated what I felt and to enforce the fact that Bhakthy has > > nothing to do with the so > > > called offerings and the same depends on individual choices and > > not on the > > > choice of people running temple administration. > > > > > > > > > Hare Krishna. > > > > > > > > > hba9331 <pravin9@> wrote: > > > Om Namo Narayanaya > > > A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should > > > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various > > > questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have > > > > > > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does > > > not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those > > > goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed > > it > > > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the > > > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various > > employee. > > > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh > > > community where free service is also an offering. The give and > take > > > concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the > > > day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if > > the > > > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently > > when > > > some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as > a > > > child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even > when > > > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it > would > > > not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain > > > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do > > this > > > and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc.. > > > > > > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good > > > members in our forum. > > > > > > Narayana Narayana..... > > > > > > Pravin > > > > > > guruvayur , " K.V Gopalakrishna " > > > <gopalakrishna.kv@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Mataji, > > > > Radhe Krishna! > > > > > > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what > > > Shri > > > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it > > is > > > a > > > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he > > > has been > > > > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising > > > his ego > > > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has > > > acquired is > > > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word " also " > > > > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible > > for > > > his > > > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor > > > and the > > > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to > > > reiterate > > > > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one > > wants > > > to > > > > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the > > > efficacy > > > > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the > > > disease. But > > > > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without > > > that, no > > > > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. > > > People > > > > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens > > without > > > > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own > > > Karma. > > > > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is > > > required. > > > > " Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave! " > > > > > > > > Promising to perform a particular " vazhipadu " to God if He > > favours > > > etc., > > > > like performing a " Tulabharam " if one gets cured of his ailment > > > etc., is > > > > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise > > > and > > > > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured > > > because > > > > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is > > > the > > > > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the > other > > > cured > > > > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. > > > But what > > > > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > KVG. > > > > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan! > > > > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the > > > following > > > > > sloka from Gita. > > > > > > > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna > > > > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha > > > > > Krishna says, > > > > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the > > > seeker > > > > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for > > > knowledge and > > > > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in > > God > > > prays > > > > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the > world,wealth > > > or > > > > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer > > his > > > > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has > not > > > already > > > > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not > > > fulfilled.This > > > > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from > > > those > > > > > who face disappointments in life. > > > > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee > > type > > > of > > > > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of > > his > > > > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a > jnani > > > later, > > > > > elevated to the status of dhruva star. > > > > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge > > when > > > in > > > > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch > > > faith > > > > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as > > > mahavisvasam ,among > > > > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for > > > worldly > > > > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life > > > which > > > > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal > life > > > we do > > > > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him > and > > > > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance > of > > > the > > > > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four > kinds > > > of > > > > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > > > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this. > > > > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and > Lord > > > Siva > > > > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi > > that > > > the > > > > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his > > fate. > > > > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and > > said > > > that > > > > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his > > karma > > > being > > > > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with > > him > > > Siva > > > > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she > > > should > > > > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy > > > without > > > > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on > which > > > the man > > > > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he > did > > > not > > > > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death > > > > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the > > > pleasures > > > > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only > thing > > > that > > > > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava > > and > > > to > > > > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of > > > Bhakthi. A > > > > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures > > of > > > life > > > > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > > > could > > > > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > > > acertain > > > > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > > > jignasu > > > > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the > jnana > > > which > > > > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through > > > someone > > > > > as He did for Parikshit. > > > > > > > > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the > truth > > > about > > > > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both > > > bhakthas > > > > > and jnanis. > > > > > > > > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya, > > > > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna > roopam,' > > > > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously > > > dropping > > > > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > > > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, > > > remembrance, > > > > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus > > > DHruvAsmrthi is > > > > > prescribed as the means of liberation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May god bless you, > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in > > > sanskrit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > ------- > > > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co > > > m/handraisers> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new > > Click here > > > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click > here > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new > Click here > > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here > > > India Answers: Share what you know. 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Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Ok Krishnadaya.Still you hv not been able to grasp the niceties of what I hv stated.I am not for any further controversy or to wound the feelings of the devotees.So let us close this chapter May God Bless you.krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote: Sri Guruvayoorappan saranam,I respect Sri. Ganapathy Raman ; and the focus is entirely on the topic only and not the individuals discussing it . I wish to explain further as follows . 1. RELEVANCE OF SRI GURUVAYOORAPPANQUOTE" Again you say that Bhagawan will take care of running the temples. In what way. ?Is He the chairman of the administrative board ?or is He giving directions?. By chanting Narayana with full faith will all the ills of the people automatically vanish?. Then why should one go to the temple and make offerings instead of keeping quiet at home and chanting Narayana all the time. "UNQUOTEGuruvayoorappan is a highly interactive Deity ; and He is in overall control of the temple . ( For instance, when Tippu sultan's army set fire to the Temple, it was saved due to timely rain ; and when fire broke out in 1970, the Chuttambalam was only 3 yards off, but still the fierce fire did not touch even the dry flower garlands, which hung on the corner of the Sreekovil .) Occasionally people having bad karma might cause a few problems for some time ; but the end of storey is not in their favour. Reliable sources , closely associated with the temple, have confirmed Bhagavan's revelations through Devaprasna, chosen devotees, Tantris, Pujaris ,etc ; and the crushing of culprits by strange coincidences . The bhakti-yoga of ordinary devotees are based on Krishna's nama-sankirtana and temple- worship . And their Atmic progress comes from the efficacy of chanting Narayana-nama . Consequently , they get rightly situated in `saranagati' ; and lead a life as Bhagavan's insbeing guided by the Bhagavan through ` nimithams' ( symptoms).2. GREAT SERVICES BY GURUVAYOOR TEMPLEThe offerings of devotees enable Guruavayoor temple to operate to the vedic rules and to undertake numerous schemes for vedic ,charity, educational and cultural activities. A few of the several activities undertaken by Guruvayoor temple are given below :• Annadana every day for around 1500 persons. On special days like Ashtami Rohini, Onam, Utsavam etc, around 10000-15000 devotees take food here.• Every year Guruvayoor temple spends a significant portion of it's surplus income for assisting the financially backward temples in Kerala. • Every day food is sent to about 200 persons of the Municipal orphanage and 100 children of the Kasthurbha child orphanage in the Guruvayur Munucipality .• Krishnanattam kalari ( training institute).• Vedic publications .• Cultural programs . • Educational institutions.• Medical facilities . We all know how difficult and expensive it is to conduct a vedic puja or a feast . As such just imagine the complexities involved in operating a huge Vedic institution like Guruvayoor temple, the abode of Sri Krishna . In 1766 AD , tyrant Hyder Ali of Mysore captured the kingdom of Calicut ; and due to insecurity pilgrims receded in Guruvayoor. The supply of rice was stopped and the tenants stopped annual dues. It was only due to Krishna's grace in the form of intervention by Malabar Governor that the temple was saved from extinction. This explains the relevance of offerings by devotees. Muslims and Christians do have well organized Madrasas and Sunday schools respectively to provide religious education to their children . All what vedic believers have is temples . In a recent press release, it is said that the Travancore Devaswom board has 1200 temples under it's control out of which only 85 are self sufficient whereas the remaining are surviving form the funds coming from the surplus income at Sabarimala and a few other major temples. If the Hindu temple goers don't donate , who will finance to keep alive the struggling vedic temples ????.CHARITY (by Devotees) Krishna's devotee is like a flower . When he blossoms in kirshna-bhakty , the sweet aroma of sattvic compassion spreads around ; and Bhagavan utilizes him most appropriately . The related benefits flow to the needy ones through Sri Krishna's grace ; as arranged for by Bhagavan Himself . For instance , the rice collection proposed by Paramacharya is still happening in the form of sponsored annadana in Krishna temples . Opportunities to help others comes as a part of the service to Sri Krishna , provided one is honest about his `saranagati ` ; and a true devotee of Krishna doesn't fail to spend part of his/her earnings to help the needy on behalf of Bhagavan . Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya !!!Krishnadaya. ------------------------guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:>> Well done Krishnadaya with your quotes from Bhagavatham.I wonder where I hv pinpointed the irrelevance of Sri Guruvayurappan.Perhaps you hv not studied my reply properly and not in a position to assimilate what I hv said.You might hv carried by the thought that I am against Sri Guruvayurappan.In that respect you are way away from the tangent and your Krishna Consciousness aspect might > hv made you to think like that.Your quotes from Bhagavatham are laudable.I know what the late Paramacharya of Kanchi said abt the rice separation by each family but that was in a different context and I don't know that practice is still in existenceor not due to efflex of time and the indifference of the bhakthas.I am sure you may not be aware of this fact.The first para of your reply is sometype of vitriolic comment which is not justifiable.You hv quoted some thing which I hv never said- I mean the irrelevance of Sri Guruvayurappan.Of course there are many origanisations who collect funds and spend in whatever way they like.But just because they do it is it necessary all people shuld follow suit?Strange logic.Where did you find any adverse views of Sri Guruvayurappan?> > If you go thru my reply carefully you will find that I hv never said anything abt Sri Guruvayurappan but only said the plight of poor temples,downtrodden people,the > reluctance of the rich to help the poor.At the same time that those are things which will bring the Grace and Mercy of the God,if some interest is shown to those aspects also.Under such circumstances though you hv taken pains to quote from Bhagavatham,a great effort,seem to be of only academic value when> other pressing needs are not addressed.I know Annadhanam is performed in GVR,Tripati,Udipi etc.In Dharmasthala it is a great thing thruout the year.The same way many big temples hv such schemes and this is not confined to GVR only..Further I hv never weaned away the devotees from making anything in the > form of vazhipadus and offerings when I hv said that all those things depend on individual choices.Hence your comments carries no weight though you may differ with my views the charge that I hv said something against Sri Guruvayurappan is really preposterous.I wonder how a Krishna bhaktha like you chose to write without studying what other person has said and write something > from imagination..Even in the very first para I hv said the offerings,using funds etc are not our concern.Then where the shoe pinches?I hv covered generally of all the big temples and never confined myself to Guruvayur only.I stressed only the Bhakthy concept which has nothing to do with the offerings only.Anyways I > don't want to prolong this issue and your devotion to Krishna thru Krishna Consciousness organisation must hv made you to say some thing.As a good friend I wish you well and you need not be depressed by such comments and carry on your duty according to the best of your conscience. God Bless.> > Hare Krishna,> > agraman.> > > > > > > > > krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote:> > Sri Guruvayoorappan Saranam,> > My humble pranams to Sri Guruvayoorapppan and all His devotees ,> > I respect Sri Ganapathy Raman , but differ with him on those adverse > views against Sri Guruvayoorappan's relevance. Millions of devotees > have experienced the live presence of Lord Sri Krishna in Guruvayoor > temple ; and His deity is not inactive like the Kelappan statue > outside. Not even a leaf will move inside the temple against > Bhagavan's wish ; and this has been time and again revealed > through chosen sources. > > Each devotee is dear to Bhagavan and this relationship is dependent > on his/her past karma and degree of devotion . As a humble worshipper > of Sri Krishna's lotus feet , I am depending totally on the chanting > of Narayana-nama for everything and from it's strength endeavor to > follow Bhagavan 's advice :> • Do your duty, to the best of your abilities, for Me without > any selfish motive, and remember Me at all times - before starting a > work, at the completion of a task, and while inactive. > • Practice to look upon all creatures as Myself in thought, > word, and deed ; and mentally bow down to them. > • Although I the Supreme God, can never be captured by ordinary > sense perception, My devotees may use their intelligence and > perception (by bhakti-yoga) to directly search for Me through both > apparent and indirect symptoms. > • Awaken your dormant spiritual power (by bhakti-yoga)and > perceive through the activities of mind, senses, breathing, and > emotions that My power is within you at all times, and is constantly > doing all the work using you as a mere instrument".> > PRESENT REALITIES> > In this age of cut throat competition and selfishness , modern India > ( ex- Bharatakhanda) as a nation has practically replaced it's > sacred atmic approach with, hypocritical secularism (Godlessness) . > > Social work and charity have become big business these days ; and > many of the related organizations fight each other to grab own scope > in the event of a natural calamity . In certain cases , even > spirituality is being marketed cleverly ; and the same people ask > their followers not to donate to Guruvayoor temple . > > There is no accountability for the huge funds being collected by many > anti-vedic social organizations and many of such funds are being used > to destabilize this ancient country which is still a thorn in the > flesh of anti-vedic forces . > > Guruvayoor temple remains as a ray of hope for the struggling vedic > faith and associated social well being . > > SCRIPTURAL JUSTIFICATION for OFFERINGS BY DEVOTEES> > Bhagavan Krishna advises Uddhava ( Srimad Bhagavatam Chapter no.11 ) > on temple worship :> > SB 11.27.15 : One should worship Me in My Deity forms by offering the > most excellent paraphernalia . But a devotee completely freed from > material desire may worship Me with whatever he is able to obtain, > and may even worship Me within his heart with mental paraphernalia.> > SB 11.27.16-17 : In worshiping the temple Deity, my dear Uddhava, > bathing and decoration are the most pleasing offerings . For the > Deity traced on sacred ground, the process of tattva-viny & #257;sais most > dear. Oblations of sesame and barley soaked in ghee are the preferred > offering to the sacrificial fire, whereas worship consisting of > upasth & #257;na and arghya is preferred for the sun. One should worship Me > in the form of water by offering water itself. Actually, whatever is > offered to Me with faith by My devotee — even if only a little water —> is most dear to Me.> > SB 11.27.18 : Even very opulent presentations do not satisfy Me if > they are offered by nondevotees . But I am pleased by any > insignificant offering made by My loving devotees, and I am certainly > most pleased when nice presentations of fragrant oil, incense, > flowers and palatable foods are offered with love.> > SB 11.27.32 : My devotee should then lovingly decorate Me with > clothing, a brahmana thread, various ornaments, marks of tilaka and > garlands, and he should anoint My body with fragrant oils, all in the > prescribed manner.> > SB 11.27.33 : The worshiper should faithfully present Me with water > for washing My feet and mouth, fragrant oils, flowers and unbroken > grains, along with incense, lamps and other offerings.> > SB 11.27.34 : Within his means, the devotee should arrange to offer > Me sugar candy, sweet rice, ghee, rice-flour cakes, various sweet > cakes, steamed rice-flour dumplings filled with sweet coconut and > sugar , wheat cakes made with ghee and milk and covered with sugar > and spices], yogurt, vegetable soups and other palatable foods.> > SB 11.27.35 : On special occasions, and daily if possible, the Deity > should be massaged with ointment, shown a mirror, offered a > eucalyptus stick for brushing His teeth, bathed with the five kinds > of nectar, offered all kinds of opulent foods, and entertained with > singing and dancing.> > SB 11.27.44 : Singing along with others, chanting loudly and dancing, > acting out My transcendental pastimes, and hearing and telling > stories about Me, the devotee should for some time absorb himself in > such festivity.> > SB 11.27.45 : The devotee should offer homage to the Lord with all > kinds of hymns and prayers, both from the Pur & #257;n & #803;as and from other > ancient scriptures, and also from ordinary traditions. Praying, "O > Lord, please be merciful to me! "he should fall down flat like a rod > to offer his obeisances.> > SB 11.27.46 : Placing his head at the feet of the Deity, he should > then stand with folded hands before the Lord and pray, "O my Lord, > please protect me, who am surrendered unto You. I am most fearful of > this ocean of material existence, standing as I am in the mouth of > death."> > SB 11.27.47 : Praying in this way, the devotee should respectfully > place upon his head the remnants I offer to him. And if the > particular Deity is meant to be sent away at the end of the worship, > then this should be performed, the devotee once again placing the > light of the Deity's presence inside the light of the lotus within > his own heart.> > SB 11.27.48 : Whenever one develops faith in Me — in My form as the > Deity or in other bona fide manifestations — one should worship Me in > that form. I certainly exist both within all created beings and also > separately in My original form, since I am the Supreme Soul of all.> > SB 11.27.49 : By worshiping Me through the various methods prescribed > in the Vedas and tantras, one will gain from Me his desired > perfection in both this life and the next .> > SB 11.27.50 : The devotee should more fully establish My Deity by > solidly constructing a temple, along with beautiful gardens. These > gardens should be set aside to provide flowers for the regular daily > worship, special Deity processions and holiday observances.> > SB 11.27.51: One who offers the Deity gifts of land, markets, cities > and villages so that the regular daily worship and special festivals > of the Deity may go on continually will achieve opulence equal to My > own.> > SB 11.27.52 : By installing the Deity of the Lord one becomes king of > the entire earth, by building a temple for the Lord one becomes ruler > of the three worlds, by worshiping and serving the Deity one goes to > the planet of Lord Brahma and by performing all three of these > activities one achieves a transcendental form like My own.> > SB 11.27.53: But one who simply engages in devotional service with no > consideration of fruitive results attains Me . Thus whoever worships > Me according to the process I have described will ultimately attain > pure devotional service unto Me .> > SB 11.27.54 : Anyone who steals the property of the Devas or the > brahmanas, whether originally given to them by himself or someone > else, must live as a worm in stool for one hundred million years.> > SB 11.27.55 : Not only the performer of the theft but also anyone who > assists him, instigates the crime, or simply approves of it must also > share the reaction in the next life. According to their degree of > participation, they each must suffer a proportionate consequence.> > MADHAVA SEVA IN A TEMPLE BECOMES MANAVA SEVA TOO> > Paramacharya Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswati Swamy said : > " Every morning a handful of rice(uncooked) must be set apart for the > poor. All the families must do this without fail every day . The rice > thus kept must be collected from house to house, from quarter to > quarter, cooked offered to the Deity of the local temple > as "naivedya" and then distributed among the poor. With the handful > of rice set apart for the poor, keep just one Rupee also. The Rupees > collected from each family would be sufficient to buy salt, chilli > powder, etc, to mix with the rice to make it more palatable. It would > also serve to buy firewood and to pay the rent for the vessels. To > carry out such a scheme is to do a great service to the poor - and to > the Lord. Charity like this should encourage temple going, not to > speak of devotion. Since the food is first offered as "naivedya", it > would mean that the poor will take it as prasadam which will impart > them inner purity. > "Annadan" or the gift of food is one kind of service of paropakara. > We talk of service to the poor, social service and so on. Today all > this is done with much fanfare and publicity. In the past the needy > were served naturally, without making any noise. Service comes > under "purta- dharma" and it includes digging wells and ponds for the > public, feeding the poor, building temples for the spiritual well-> being of people, laying our gardens. As we keep serving people in > this way we will obtain inward purity . "> > Jagadguru K.K. Shankaracharya Swami wrote :> > " We enjoy the good things in life such as house, food, clothing, > ornaments, music, dance, etc. We pay a tribute in the form of taxes > to the king or to the government, for making it possible for us to > enjoy them by giving us their protection. Even as we render homage to > the king for the enjoyment of these things, we are bound to render > our gratitude to God who has > primarily given us the good things of life.> > We offer a part of these good things as a token of our gratitude to > Him in the temple. We first offer to the Lord all that He has given > to us in the shape of food, clothing, jewels, music, flowers, light, > incense, etc., with the grateful consciousness that they are His > gifts to us ; and we receive them back from Him as His PRASAAD. The > temple is the place where these offerings are made on behalf of the > collective community. Even if people do not go to the temple, it is > enough if these offerings are made to God on behalf of the community. > The duty of the people at the place is to see that these offerings > are made in the proper manner."> > CONCLUSION> > In addition to bringing the devotees closer to Bhagavan , Guruvayoor > temple also help thousands of people by feeding them directly or > indirectly . It is the duty of all devotees to contribute for the > smooth running of temples ; and to remove public misunderstandings > caused by unfounded allegations.> > Om Namo Narayanaya !> > Krishnadaya> > --------------> guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62@> > wrote:> >> > Dear Krishnadaya,> > > > It is quite some time that you hv not been heard in this > Group.Here the question is not that of how the temples are > administered or how the offerings of devotees> > are utilised or what interests the devotees to make such > offerings.As said that > > depends on individual choices and there is no need to > interfere.But regarding the > > amounts collected by way of vazhipadus and how they are utilised > nobody knows and that is also not our concern.The point is how such > things can be correlated to the Bakthy concept?Do you wish to say > that by offerings even though with full heart could be construed as > Bhakthy?There are hundreds of people who just dump money in the hundi > which has become a custom and not a way of expressing Bhakthy.I hv > seen in all the big temples .big bundles of notes are deposited in > the hundi and do you think that can be termed as bhakthy?or is it > some type of bargaining?There are hundreds of people who never bother > to contribute even token amounts to many deserving cases like the > > Deaf and Dumb society,Blind society,Charitable institutions who > run providing> > succour to the orphans but they are prepared to put waddles of > currencies in the hundis and as offerings as if God is in need of > that.Why this change in their minds?Instead of dumping money in the > hundis if they spend at least a portion to the needy,distressed > people will not that bring them the Grace of God as all are His > children and due to karma effects they hv born to suffer and giving > them a helping hand,will not that please the God?It is said > Manavaseva is Madhavaseva-when that is eloquently drummed up in > platforms are all practicing > > the same?By dumping money for the sake of upliftment of temples > which are > > already very rich what purpose does it serve when the teeming > millions suffer in > > desolation and despair?Do you not think that have nots shuld be > protected by> > those who hv the money power in the interest of God as all are > His creatures?> > Due to good karmas in the earlier births one may possess lot of > wealth but shuld not the person think that the same shuld be > distributed at least a portion > > to the needy?> > > > I am not a preacher but I say from practical point of view and > not to offend anybody.I know you hv enough knowledge to understand > what I mean?You are also doing a great service and that too I know in > your own way which is surely> > laudable.As a Krishna bhaktha you shuld hv the compassion to the > down trodden also.Of course the whole world can't be made into a > paradise overnight> > by doling out to the needy people but those who do even a bit > will surely enjoy> > great peace and the Grace of God as He is not for the rich and > vainglorious people but for the poor,unsung people as He has > demonstrated in the case of> > Kuchela.If the devotee is the instrument of Bhagawan Krishna > whyshuld He make him to be a slave to the material gains without > thinking abt His own brothers and sisters who are also the > instruments of Him.So that argument carries no weight.It s because > there is an element of ego in the minds of His instruments also which > even He finds it difficult to dilute.Again you say that Bhagawan will > take care of running the temples.In what way?Is He the chairman of > the administrative board?or is He giving directions?In your estimate > how many temples come under the purview of GVR and Sabarimala temples?> Are all the temples properly taken care of by the Boards of the GVR > and Sabarimala?> > > > Another fun is your advice not to worry and be happy.There is no > dearth for happiness in me as I always possess equanimity of mind > never bothering abt accolades or derisions as I know that is all part > of the game.By chanting Narayana with full faith will all the ills of > the people automatically vanish?Then why shuld one go to the temple > and make offerings instead of keeping quiet at home and chanting > Narayana all the time.Since you and I know that the same is not > practical as the same won't make the world move as even Krishna has > said > > do your duty without expecting rewards simply chanting won't lead > anybody > > anywhere unless the same is also accompanied by the duty,love and > devotion> > and compassion to the fellow beings.That is the only way to get > the Mercy and Grace OF God and this what all the scriptures also > enunciate.Even Vasudeva> > Krishna also reiterates the same thing.> > > > Krishnadaya,don't get upset over what I hv said as it is not my > intention to wound your feelings.You hv said what you think to be a > method and I just said what I felt.That is all.As I know you are a > great Krishna bhaktha and doing good > > services in your own humble way I hv just taken some liberty to > bring to your > > attention that there are many things beyond our control as Hamlet > used to say > > in Othello,'Horatio,there are many wonders in this world than > what you imagine'.> > In essence what I mean by Bhakthy has nothing to do with the so > called offerings and vazhipadus though the same are left to the > choice of the devotees as I myself don't know whether I am a devotee > or not and to what extent I hv > > progressed in this field as it is an ocean and only God is the > arbiter in such things.God Bless..> > > > Hare Krishna,> > agraman.> > > > > > krishnadaya <krishnadaya@> wrote:> > Sri Guruvayoorappan saranam,> > > > A devotee is an instrument of the Bhagavan Sri Krishna ; and it is > > the Lord's power that is acting through him/her. It is quite > natural > > that , a devotee is grateful to the Bhagavan for His kindness ; and > > is always pleased to offer something in return. > > > > It is easy to criticise the Temple working systems in place , but > > difficult to run it . There is no need for the devotee to worry > about > > the running of temple because Bhagavan is there to take care > through > > His own ways and means. > > > > The religious institutions of non-Hindu religions don't have any > > public accountabilty whereas the Devaswam Boards are accountable to > > Government. Most of the small temples are run from the income of > > Guruvayoor and Sabarimala. > > > > So let us be positive in our approach . Don't worry, be happy!!!!> > Just chant Om Namo Narayanaya and leave the rest to Bhagavan.> > > > A Bhaktan> > > > guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62@> > > wrote:> > >> > > > > > > > > Of course for running the temple,paying salary etc money is > > required but the point is who are the persons chalking out the > > various vazhipadus and fixing rates?The temple authorities and not > > God.If the temple authorities say that to > > > run the temple money is required and hence donate your might they > > won't get > > > much but if they exhibit in boards that such and such vazhipadus > > can bring this and that benefit people are glad to contribute > whether > > the same materialises or> > > not and so the authorities are trying to display a long list to > > collect funds in this way which has nothing to do with Bhakthy or > > God.This trend has become in vogue during the past decades > > only.Centuries back there were no such things.> > > > > > Temples like Guruvayur or Sabarimala or Tripati attract devotees > > in millions and> > > in this way the coffers also can overflow by the so called > > vazhipadus.A devotee > > > is happy iif he does some thulabharam with sugar or plantain or > > anything by paying the rates fixed by the administration thinking > > that God is pleased with his offering, and the administration is > > happy that their bank balances increase which > > > can be utilised and misutilised for various things.This is > > actually what is happening in big temples.On the otherhand there > are > > innumerable temples which don't hv any income even to offer > neivedyam > > to the Deity or having enough oil even to light the lamps.Why the > > devotees don't flock to those temples also and> > > do the vazhipadus so that those temples too can see the light of > > the day.Is> > > Guruvayurappan sits only in Guruvayur or Sastha sits only in > > Sabarimalai when > > > the all pervading God is in every atom and every idol why some > > temples flourish and some suffer?Does that mean that people who go > to > > those less fortunate > > > temples are not devotees?In Tripati there is a custom that > > everyday whatever > > > money and other offerings come will be accounted before the Deity > > in the night> > > but it is not known how the money is being spent and whether the > > Deity gives permission for all the expenses?There was even an > attempt > > years back that the > > > amounts collected shuld be invested in Govt bonds thereby > > diverting the funds of the temple but due to the protest of the > > devotees the idea was shelved.> > > > > > There is noting wrong in collecting money for the administration > > of temple by > > > means like vazhipadus but that can't be connected with Bhakthy as > > there is no> > > sanction from the Deity for the same and it is only the temple > > administration fixes the same.Years back in GVR udayasthamana pooja > > was fixed at Rs.5000> > > but now I don't know the amount but certainly it must be 50000 > > and what is the > > > guidelines for fixing such exhorbitant rates?The temple > > administration members enjoy in all comforts from the so called > > collections and that too everybody knows.Then how this collection > can > > be linked to ardent Bhakthy?Did the > > > Deity of GVR or Sabarimala told the administration to collect so > > much money?> > > So in the name of God all these are made.In a country like India > > with more than a billion people there is always the tendency to > > resort to superstitions in beliefs> > > and the eagerness to know abt the future thru astrology.If there > > is something > > > wrong immediately it is decided to conduct an ashtamangalya > > prasna is conducted.The astrologers say that God is furious because > > the surroundings are polluted and the devotees are not havig proper > > devotion,roads are not good and all such things.When the same is > said > > by media and people nobody bothers and when the astrologers say > that > > God is angry immedately steps are taken to ward > > > off evils supposed to happen if the same are not done.Are they > > not looking funny?> > > > > > My intention is not to fnd fault with anything that is going on > > which everybody knows but the pertinent thing is that for a Bhaktha > > such things appear to be superfluous and when so many temples ae > > suffering for lack of funs why certain important temples alone take > > the cakes when we accept that God is everywhere.There is no > > explanation for this anamoly and the same will continue.> > > So by doing vazhipadus and offerings the temple coffers can be > > filled up but not lead one to Real Bhakthy.Was there such a system > > during the days of Bhattathiri and Poonthanam?Because those days > they > > had so much love and > > > devotion to God and never bothered abt other things..Now the > > trend has changed and money takes the upper hand over Real > > Bhakthy.What a pity?> > > > > > If anybody is offended by these comments I express regret as I hv > > only stated what I felt and to enforce the fact that Bhakthy has > > nothing to do with the so > > > called offerings and the same depends on individual choices and > > not on the > > > choice of people running temple administration.> > > > > > > > > Hare Krishna.> > > > > > > > > hba9331 <pravin9@> wrote:> > > Om Namo Narayanaya> > > A very good topic to discuss on this forum. Everybody should > > > earnestly participate...since there are bound to be various > > > questions coming up in our mind...one such question I have> > > > > > It was discussed in one of the Books of AMMA that Guruvayoor does > > > not need any of our material offerings in cash or kind, all those > > > goes to the funding account. But if the below concept is followed > > it > > > would be very difficult to maintain the temple and the > > > infrastructure needed and the salary to be paid to various > > employee. > > > We in Kerala do not have the concept of KARSEVA as with the Sikh > > > community where free service is also an offering. The give and > take > > > concept if discouraged would have far reaching consequence on the > > > day to day working of such institution...I have my own doubts if > > the > > > Hindu system would work purely on the Bakthi concept. Currently > > when > > > some bad time falls on us, we run to Guruvayoorappan, same way as > a > > > child runs to his/her parents when they are in trouble or even > when > > > they have a bad dream...but since we are not kids we feel it > would > > > not be fair to go empty handed so promise Guruvayoorappan certain > > > Vazipadu....more over even the Vazipadus are classified into do > > this > > > and you get this..do that and that for good health...etc..> > > > > > I shall be very thankful if these doubts are cleared by the good > > > members in our forum.> > > > > > Narayana Narayana.....> > > > > > Pravin> > > > > > guruvayur , "K.V Gopalakrishna" > > > <gopalakrishna.kv@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Mataji,> > > > Radhe Krishna!> > > > > > > > I agree with you one hundred per cent. With due regard to what > > > Shri > > > > Ganapathy Raman and Krishna Prasad have said, in some cases, it > > is > > > a > > > > fact that complacency creeps in when one acquires the object he > > > has been > > > > longing for. This complacency makes him too jubilant, raising > > > his ego > > > > level so high, that he forgets for a time, that what he has > > > acquired is > > > > by divine grace also. I have deliberately added the word "also" > > > > because many people think that one's hard work was responsible > > for > > > his > > > > upliftment in life, or that it was the cleverness of the doctor > > > and the > > > > efficacy of the medicine that has cured him. I would like to > > > reiterate > > > > here that hard work is definitely required to be done if one > > wants > > > to > > > > come up in life. Similarly, the doctor's experience and the > > > efficacy > > > > of the medicine play a very important part in curing the > > > disease. But > > > > all these require divine grace to have their effect. Without > > > that, no > > > > medicine will work, and any amount of hard work will not pay. > > > People > > > > have the habit of blaming God when something wrong happens > > without > > > > realising that the bad that has happened is result of one's own > > > Karma. > > > > Let us not forget that even to think of God, His grace is > > > required. > > > > "Iswaranugrahad eva bhakthirbhavathi Kesave!"> > > > > > > > Promising to perform a particular "vazhipadu" to God if He > > favours > > > etc., > > > > like performing a "Tulabharam" if one gets cured of his ailment > > > etc., is > > > > an inferior type of Bhakti. On the face of the person's promise > > > and > > > > cure of the disease, it may look as though the person got cured > > > because > > > > of the promise made. But really speaking, it is not so. It is > > > the > > > > person's belief on one side and the fruits of Karma on the > other > > > cured > > > > him. The Lord will accept anything if offered with Bhakti. > > > But what > > > > He wants is Bhakti and Bhakti alone.> > > > > > > > Regards> > > > KVG.> > > > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote:> > > > > > > > > Well said Gopalakrishnan!> > > > > I think that perhaps it is relevant here to examine the > > > following > > > > > sloka from Gita.> > > > > > > > > > Chathurvidhaa bajanthe maamjanaah sukrthino arjuna> > > > > aatho jignaasurarthaartheejnaanee cha bharathrshbha> > > > > Krishna says,> > > > > 'Four types of devotees of noble deeds worship Me, Arjuna,the > > > seeker > > > > > after worldly possessions, the afflicted,the seeker for > > > knowledge and > > > > > the man of wisdom, O best of Bharathas A man who believes in > > God > > > prays > > > > > for the fulfilment of his cherished objects of the > world,wealth > > > or > > > > > child and so on. When he gets them as a result of his prayer > > his > > > > > devotion is strengthened and develops into faith.If he has > not > > > already > > > > > acquired faith he will lose belief if his desire is not > > > fulfilled.This > > > > > is why we often hear the cry 'I no more believe in God,' from > > > those > > > > > who face disappointments in life.> > > > > Sugreeva and dhruva can be cited as examples of arthaarthee > > type > > > of > > > > > devotees, the former devoloped faith after the fulfilment of > > his > > > > > desire while Dhruva had both faith and beliefand became a > jnani > > > later, > > > > > elevated to the status of dhruva star.> > > > > The second kind of devotee who seeks God as his sole refuge > > when > > > in > > > > > distress like Droupadi or Gajendra are aarthees with staunch > > > faith > > > > > that He alone is their saviour, which is termed as > > > mahavisvasam ,among > > > > > the five requisites of saranagathi. They do not seek Him for > > > worldly > > > > > pleasures but remain ardent devotees through out their life > > > which > > > > > alone will make them call out to Him in earnest.In normal > life > > > we do > > > > > not have that faith in God eventhough we have belief in Him > and > > > > > therefore we suffer in consequenceHere comes the importance > of > > > the > > > > > word 'sukrthinah' which Krishna uses to describe the four > kinds > > > of > > > > > devotees. To think of God and yearn for His mercy requires > > > > > poorvajanmapunya. There is a story to illustrate this.> > > > > A man who was a confirmed sinner was sitting on a tree and > Lord > > > Siva > > > > > happened to pass that way with Parvathi. Siva told Parvathi > > that > > > the > > > > > man is going to fall from the tree and die since it is his > > fate. > > > > > Parvathi, being the divine mother, took pity on the man and > > said > > > that > > > > > they should save him to which Siva replied that it was his > > karma > > > being > > > > > a sinner to die such a death.When Parvathi remonstrated with > > him > > > Siva > > > > > said that He will save the man if he cries out 'appa' and she > > > should > > > > > save him if he says 'amma' when he falls. Parvathi was happy > > > without > > > > > realising the real purport of Siva's words.The branch on > which > > > the man > > > > > was sitting broke and he fell down crying'aiyo,' because he > did > > > not > > > > > have the sukrthi to call God's name at the time of death> > > > > Jignasu is one who has pure devotion and does not seek the > > > pleasures > > > > > of life nor is he worried about distress because the only > thing > > > that > > > > > could cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava > > and > > > to > > > > > acertain extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of > > > Bhakthi. A > > > > > jignasu who has pure devotion and does not seek the pleasures > > of > > > life > > > > > nor is he worried about distress because the only thing that > > > could > > > > > cause pain to him is being away from the Lord. Uddhava and to > > > acertain > > > > > extent Paikshit are the examples of this kind of Bhakthi. A > > > jignasu > > > > > loves the Lord for his own sake and seeks to acquire the > jnana > > > which > > > > > the Lord Himself gives as in the case of Udhdhava or through > > > someone > > > > > as He did for Parikshit.> > > > > > > > > > The last but not least is the jnani who has realised the > truth > > > about > > > > > the Lord like Prahlada, Narada and other sages who were both > > > bhakthas > > > > > and jnanis.> > > > > > > > > > Besides, Ramanuja says in his sribhashya,> > > > > 'dhyAnam cha thailadhArAvath avicchinna smrthisanthAna > roopam,' > > > > > continous flow of remembrance like the stream of continously > > > dropping > > > > > oil. 'DhruvA smrthih ;smrthilambhe sarvagranTheenAm > > > > > vipramokshah,'(Chan.7-26-2) when the constant,dhruva, > > > remembrance, > > > > > smrthih is attained all knots are rent asunder. Thus > > > DHruvAsmrthi is > > > > > prescribed as the means of liberation> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saroja Ramanujam> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > .> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > May god bless you,> > > > > > > > > > Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in > > > sanskrit.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -------------------------> > > -------> > > > > > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta. > > > > > > > > > > > <http://us.rd./evt=40791/*http://advision.webevents..co> > > m/handraisers> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new > > Click here> > > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click > here> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new > Click here> > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here> >> > > > > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here> Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here> India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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