Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Yes Vinod,I agree with your explanation and lust is not the proper word,but actually I used it as a desire to hv union with the Paramatman not in a sexual way but to hv union with the Universal Mind which was the desire of the Gopis. Anyways thanks for correcting me. Hare Krishna.vinod_ps77 <vinod.ps wrote: !! Sri Rama Jayam !!Pranams Shri Ganapathy Raman,I am trying to admire the your thoughts but there are some points where I hold a different opinion. For instance, the way of attaining Krishna by Gopis has been described through 'lust' .. hard to believe, though it may appear happening superficially by our ordinary vision. We should always remember that 'Gopis' stands as the jagadgurus of bhakti & never can lust be a footprint of bhakti. I have heard from saints that when Krishna started playing his flute prior to 'Rasa - leela', the gopis who were engaged in different activities (like cooking food, feeding babies, milking, dressing up for their husbands) were totally driven by the flute-call & march towards the tree under which Krishna usually spent his time. Krishna advised these gopis to go back & perform their loka-dharma. But the answers from these ladies turned out to be the summary & substance of 'Ananya bhakti'. "We as a part & parcel of your supreme energy are surrendered to no other lordship than yours my beloved Krishna". Perhaps here Krishna tried to test these ladies in the most intensified way where he assures them of the bad name & related consequences for the entire life there after. But to the surprise of all others, these gopis mastered the situation & became the most eligible personalities to have an eternal association of Krishna. The gopis were none other than the great sages of Dandakaranya who were charmed by the magnificient grace of Rama & were blessed to have oneness with the supreme in the next age of Dwapara.Hence, defining the love of the gopis as mere lust would be a big mistake & sin.Thanks ..Hare KrishnaHare Ramaguruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:>> Normally we used to hv bhakthy only in a positive aspect thereby making the Lord our soul refuge and surrender unto Him without reservations and spend our> time in constant rememberance.But in this mysterious world we find that there is opposition to every aspect.eg.positive and negative,day and night,love and anger etc.So when we can hv loving bhakthy there also can be virodha bhakthy> which is also another type of bhakthy.We consider that all bhakthy devotion must be characterised by love and consider hatred as the exact opposite of bhakthy.The virodha bhakthy can also be thought as Black whiteness.Yet it> is a fact that devotion springs thru hatred also.That is why the term vyree bhakthy is in common use.The cases of Ravana,Kamsa,Hiranyakasipu are cited> as instances of virodhi bhakthy.Several of us consider these cases as instances of violent poisonous hatred getting into a previously healthy loving system,which> might hv naturally killed out all Love and Bhakthy except for the special Grace of> God that checks the effects of the poison by strengthening the reserve power> or power of revival of health that every organism possesses within certain limits.> > The hatred is no doubt poisonous but by divine grace the old Love is not destroyed but only temporarily clouded or muddled.Many consider hatred as > negative electricity applied to one side of the jivas producing by induction the> opposite of it viz.positive electricity or Love in another side.In Srimad Bhagavata> VII Skanda,Chapter I verses 25 to 30 the main point covered is let the mind be> covered by hatred or devotion or fear or friendship or even by lust,but somehow it> must be directed towards Godward so as not to be diverted to other things.The> worm shut up in the bee's closed earthern cell constantly thinks of the bee in > terror and thereby turns into a bee.Persons who hv by hatred of the Lord Krishna > who masquerades as a man purified themselves of Sin and attain Him.Many hv > reached His state by fixing their minds on Him thru lust,hatred,fear,friendship,> or devotion and thus getting rid of their sins.By lust the gopis reached Him,by> fear Kamsa,by hatred Sisupala,by kinship the Vrishnis and others by friendship and devotion.(the above are only synopsis of the verses 25 to 30).> > It shuld be noted that the term virodhi bhakthy is not used in any of these passages.What is used is vyra anubhanda or vyra yoga and this is contrasted> with bhakthy.Evidently it must hv been perceived that it is absurd to call hatred> by the name bhakthy.If even the name hatred is so repulsive,one may ask how> does hatred serve take the soul to God.The answer is that it does not matter > for what reason the mind is turned to God.Let it turn to God in violent anger> or hatred or out of lust,it will be still in contact with God.And God is such a wonderful dynamo that it will absorb into itself all sorts of objects and convert them into itself.The hatred serves the purpose of intense concentration-a process that goes on intensifying itself and preventing any forgetfulness of God.> The stories of Hiranya and Kamsa are classic examples.It is forgetting the God that forms the real danger.That is apathy,a barren state.If the mind is fired> with hatred or anger with God,it is fascinated by God and has soon to surrender itself without itself knowing.Its fangs of hatred are soon steeped in Divine Love> and become Love.It is like tender gallnut steeped in syrup or in like juice,which> retains its form but loses its taste entirely.The old flavour if slightly retained,> gives a variety and piquancy to the taste and increases its utility or attraction.> So the secret of this so called vyree bhakthy is its being directed towards God> with persistent and great violence carried to the point of fascination and surrender.> > Now the natural question arises is there any difference noticeable between this > sort of hatred or irreverence for God and the ordinary forms of ungodliness or> scoffing and disregard for God?The latter tend to degrade and may go on degrading the scoffer or sinner for a very long time.But the former on account of> extra-ordinary and ever increasing violence must soon come to a stop.It is like> a locust rushing at and getting destroyed in the flame.The hating ego rushes> likewise into the dvine flame and is burnt up.It becomes part of the flame.The ego is purified of its hatred and becomes part and parcel of God.That is the real distinction between ordiary hatred and what is termed Virodha bhakthy.Let one > angrily ask God why He takes a delight in tantalising a poor creature and when He proposes to put an end to the intolerable situation one is placed.If one has > a metaphysical or introverted turn of mind,let him very earnestly examine what it > is that he terms GOD ,what his Self and what other selves or things.Even this> observation and analysis must be conducted with great persistence and > earnestness and not in a half hearted way.Then sooner or later (according to the degree of his earnestness and his poorva punya,it may be}, he will perceive that > there is only one substratum or essence underlying these three entities God,> Self and Universe which may be termed Parameswar,Paramatman or Parabrahman.To attain this one must seek the company of Great souls especially when one's bhakthy has been upset.Satsang also gives relief when > oher measures are not available or found useless.So whatever way God is > remembered if the same is done without reservations the Reality dawns.> > Hare Krishna,> > agraman.> > > > India Answers: Share what you know. 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