Guest guest Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Dear Krishnadaya, Your qn.1 abt Jnanis whom I know.First of all you must understand the basics of spirirual aspects.For eg.we pray to many temples and why we concentrate on a particular temple and a particular deity?Does this mean that the deities of other temples hv no divinity?It is only out of sheer faith and devotion people throng various temples.Still there may be mlillions of people in this country who may not even heard of Guruvayur.They may worship some deities in their villages and for them the same is suffice to get protection and not concerned with other big name temples.I am sure you must be aware of the same and for that sake all people.So too Jnanis are generally dubbed as persons who hv realised Brahman as the real entity and get themselves supremely attached to such Reality within them.That Reality gives the Jnani his true individuality.This is how Jnani excels.After God realizartion the Jnani gets all godly qualities and knowledge as he becomes One with Him. So in this case it is a matter of individual experience and can't be pinpointed such persons.What I feel a Jnani you may reject and vice versa.This depends upon such attitudes like devotion,faith,the achievements and qualities of the person whom one consider to be a Great Soul.We hv been told that Ramakrishna,Ramana,Sankara,Ramanuja etc were all big Jnanis though we hv no direct contact with them but persons who had contact with them hv enunciated and we believe.So too there may be lot of Jnanis still living in the heights of Himalayas,some caves and in everso many places without themselves really revealing as we can't understand abt their position with our limited knowledge in these matters.Since the same is a very very personal experience one has to go on searching such persons and when the time for the aspirant ripes they themselves appear before the ardent and sincere devotee and guide them in the right path of God Realization.So by just quoting some names neither I nor you can't judge a person as Jnani unless I or you hv personal experience.So no useful purpose will be served by such quoting some names as the same will again trigger off further doubts and arguments.So in this respect instead of myself knowing who are the Jnanis you search your might to find someone thru experience and that alone will help you.It is just some has said I hv visited such and such temple and got benefits and you also visit and you will also reap benefits thereby diverting the mind from one place to another.Actually this is what is happening.If one God does not give anything go to another God who has promised to give what all required and the poor devotee gets himself/herself shuttling from one place to another in search of good which may or may not materialise.I hope you will now understand what I mean that no useful purpose will be served for yourself knowing who are the Jnanis I know, as the same won't help and all depends on your search sincere and devoted and finding one thru your own pursuits. I need not give such an elaborate reply to you or can keep quiet but as a friend who has raised this,I considered it is my duty to help in the most possible way.So search yourself for such an exhalted person and in due course you may find one such person and you will know the Truth provided you hv necessary devotion,sincerity,backed by Karma and Grace. Reg.your qn.No.2 reg what is your opinion abt Matha it is not my practice to make comments or opinions abt persons who are much, much higher in spiritual dimension as I am not fit to make any such things and I am sorry I hv to answer to your question only in a negative way.I am not evading your questions but speak only the truth as this is spiritual quest andnot political assessments. Good Luck. Hare Krishna.krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote: Dear Sri Ganapthy Ramanji,Many thanks for this useful article . Could you please provide the names of a few living Jnanis . What is your opinion on Mata Amritananda Mayi Devi ? ..Regards,Krishnadayaguruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:>> Four types of Bhkathas are mentioned in Gita.Three are the Aaartha,the Artha-arthi,and the Jijnasu-all these adore the Lord in an implicit form,as Paroksha.> They seek the Lord as a means for the realization of their desires and goals.> Of course they all will be in prayerful and worshipful mood always and remembering Him at all times.The Jnani is the fourth type mentioned in Gita.> He has Ekabhakthy,while others hv Anekabhakthy., the others are attached> to the objects or the states they desire and for their sake are attached to the > Lord also.They are devoted not merely to the Lord,but to the objective world> also.The Jnaniwill not raise his eyes towards anything other than God.Even > if he does,he sees the Lord wherever his eyes are cast.That is the reason why> the Lord declared that Jnani is the dearest to Him.Surely all are the same for the Lord,but among those who hv reached His presence and are present there,love> is explicit,prathyaksha,immediate directly cognisable and experienceable.> Therefore it can be referred that the Jnani is nearest to the Lord and so the > dearest.> > When one shivers from cold it is the nature of fire to warm one up.But how can > it help one to keep warm if he does not approach it but keep away at a distance?Similarly,those who are earnest to remove the chillness of worldly ills> hv to seek the fire of Jnana,which is won by the Grace of God and be in the > immediacy of God.The sadhakas in the midst of their efforts sometimes imagine> God to be less glorious than He really is.They feel that He differentiates between> sinners and saints,good and bad,jnanis and ajnanis.These are unsound> inferences.The Lord does not separate men thus.If He really did so,no sinner can survive His anger on earth for even a minute.All are living on earth,since God> has no such distinction.This truth is known only to a Jnani.Others are unaware of this.They suffer under the false belief that God is somewhere far far away from > them.> > The Jnani is free from Maya neither he is affected by the Gunas.The Jijnasu,the > seeker of knowledge,however is different.He uses his time for unbroken > contemplation of the Divine,in pious deeds and holy thoughts.The other two> Arthaarthi and Aaartha,they gather elevating experience and ruminate over the > real and unreal and transform theselves into Jijanasus,seekers of knowledge.> And later they become Jnanis and are saved.The goal is reached thus stage by > stage.Nobody can attain the goal in one leap.This is just like ,if Jnana can be dubbed as thru train where the jnani need not detrain enroute to enter another> train on the way to reach his destination,the jijnasu enters through carriage> and though he may not get down from the carriage but the carriage can be > detached and attched to another train enroute and he reaches somehow the place he wants to reach.The Aartha boards the ordinary train and the carriage > he is in is neither through nor one in a through train,he has to alight at a number> of places enroute and wait until another train comes by,so that he he can reach the destination by stages.It is a long and arduous journey.But,in spite of these> difficulties,it can be accompolished by the Aartha,if he persists.The goal is > attained by all, only the process and pace are different.No wonder Sri Krishna > declared more than once that all these four types of bhakthas are 'My Own'.> Why has He so declared?Because they all seek the same High Goal.> > The bhakthy or devotion of the jnani is what is termed as Sahajabhakthy,direct> bhakthy.The bhakthy of others can be called derived bhakthy,indirect bhakthy.> The Jnani cognises the lord as his own Atma,bhakthy is anu-rakthi,attachment> towards or affection upon God.'Poojyaeshvanura-ago bhakthy',it is said,affection> towards the reverend is bhakthy.,said Krishna.The jnani becomes so as the > result of the merit accumulated thru many lives.It is not a stage attainable on the > spur of the moment,nor is available ready-made in shops for a price and it is not> a marketable commodity.It is the culmination of the spiritual endeavour practiced> in many lives.Doctors can be produced for ministering to the people.But years of> study and experience alone can supply them,if those un-equipped are appointed> as doctors in the hospitals and if they start prescribing and operating,they are> bound to kill where they shuld cure.So too,if a person has become a jnani today > it can be imagined the years and years of sadhana he must hv put over many > lives to reach such a position.> > All kinds of people now a days call themselevs as Jnanis.Perhaps they do't know,that jnani is marked by certain characteristics.The mark that proves him genuine is of course,his declaration based on his own experience that > 'Vaasudevassarvamidam', 'Vasudeva is all this'.The steady assimilation of that > experience is the true sign of the jnani.By Vasudeva is meant here not the son > of Vasudeva,but He who made all beings His Home.It is only a pesron who > perceives the Lord in all beings that deserves to be called a Jnani.Instead if others call themselves jnanis,they are only so in name.They hv no genuine > experience of jnana.What exactly is this Jnana?It is the possession of that > knowledge which enables one to hv knowledge of all..and so enables one to > dispense with the knowledge of all else.This is the height that a true jnani reaches.On the other hand,no one can claim to be a jnani who has simply learnt a few slokas by heart,or skipped thru a few books,or ascended platforms and > lectured for hours in the full pride of scholarship,reeling off ponderous sentences> pouring out what has earlier been swallowed.We hv umpteen number of such > self styled jnanis.Their dress is ochre, but their hearts are ogre.How can stones> shine like gems?All stones are not precious stones.Who will assess a stone as > equal to a gem?Only people without knowledge will be misled.For they know > neither the one or the other.> > Bhagawan Sri Krishna declared the king of Manthras, 'Vaasudevassarvam' in the > Gita,just to counteract such pseudo-Jnanis,whose emergence He anticipated.> That one Manthra is suffice to save all mankind.That is His indirect Gift.consider> it as such and concentrate on it and its meaning.That is the highest good,that is> the highest goal.Those letters alone can make human lives worthwhile.Krishna > was referring to such real jnanis when He said that the world will shine in > splendour through the Jnanis.A man,without Jnana,is as a home without light.> > Hare Krishna.> > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here> Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here> India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Dear all, There are very valid points raised by Sri Krishnadaya and Sri Ganapathy Raman about Jnanis. I would like to interpose my opinion also in that, so this mail. A Jnani is not built in a day. The Jnani acquires that Jnanam to be called a "Jnani" over a period of time. .It takes the whole Janma or many Janmas to reach that level of spiritual knowledge ro realise that the deities installed in all temples are as powerful as the image of the Lord installed at Guruvayoor. For instance, we say or claim, in accordance with the Sthala-puranam of Guruvayoor that the image at Guruvayoor was the same image which was worshipped for three generations by the same couple, the first one being Prisni and Sutapas, the second, Aditi and Kasyapa-prajapati and the third, Devaki and Vasudeva. We also believe that Lord Krishna Himself worshipped the same His own image, after getting it installed in Dwaraka.. Devotees who have such firm faith in that Lord, who, as Bhattatiri points out, is the embodiment of the Whole Indivisible Nishkala-brahman which is not available at any other place, will, initially throng Guruvayoor with such faith and belief. We cannot say "it is the same Krishna everywhere, so please go there." But over a period of time, they will come to realise that more than seeing the idol and worshipping in front of it, their own Bhakti is more important wherever they go. The true fact is that if one has developed that level of discriminatory knowledge, he (Like Swami Vivekananda) is sure to realise that there is no need to go to any temple at all, the same Lord is enshrined in one's own Hrdaya-pundareeka, and on Whom one can concentrate and still get the same results. Temples, idols and pictures are required only to develop that Bhakti, by which, when it matures, one can see the Lord everywhere, including his own hrdaya-pundareeka. The Narayaneeyam Bhaktaranjini commentary highlights this point in several places, that "Vatalayesa" (Vata-alaya-isa) as whom Bhattatiri addresses the Lord in many places throughout the book, is also the Lord of the mortal body which is the abode of the Pancha-pranas, the five life winds, (vatas) Prana, Apana, Vyana, Udana and Samana, and Who is enshrined in our own hearts as the Jeevatman... . He is the charioteer of the chariot (The human body) which is drawn by the five life winds, which are comparable to five horses of a chariot, and if any of those horses misbehaves, the whole chariot loses its track, and the body falls sick. It is He who sets right those horses and keeps the chariot running in its course. Love KVG GANAPATHY RAMAN wrote: Dear Krishnadaya, Your qn.1 abt Jnanis whom I know.First of all you must understand the basics of spirirual aspects.For eg.we pray to many temples and why we concentrate on a particular temple and a particular deity?Does this mean that the deities of other temples hv no divinity?It is only out of sheer faith and devotion people throng various temples.Still there may be mlillions of people in this country who may not even heard of Guruvayur.They may worship some deities in their villages and for them the same is suffice to get protection and not concerned with other big name temples.I am sure you must be aware of the same and for that sake all people.So too Jnanis are generally dubbed as persons who hv realised Brahman as the real entity and get themselves supremely attached to such Reality within them.That Reality gives the Jnani his true individuality.This is how Jnani excels.After God realizartion the Jnani gets all godly qualities and knowledge as he becomes One with Him. So in this case it is a matter of individual experience and can't be pinpointed such persons.What I feel a Jnani you may reject and vice versa.This depends upon such attitudes like devotion,faith,the achievements and qualities of the person whom one consider to be a Great Soul.We hv been told that Ramakrishna,Ramana,Sankara,Ramanuja etc were all big Jnanis though we hv no direct contact with them but persons who had contact with them hv enunciated and we believe.So too there may be lot of Jnanis still living in the heights of Himalayas,some caves and in everso many places without themselves really revealing as we can't understand abt their position with our limited knowledge in these matters.Since the same is a very very personal experience one has to go on searching such persons and when the time for the aspirant ripes they themselves appear before the ardent and sincere devotee and guide them in the right path of God Realization.So by just quoting some names neither I nor you can't judge a person as Jnani unless I or you hv personal experience.So no useful purpose will be served by such quoting some names as the same will again trigger off further doubts and arguments.So in this respect instead of myself knowing who are the Jnanis you search your might to find someone thru experience and that alone will help you.It is just some has said I hv visited such and such temple and got benefits and you also visit and you will also reap benefits thereby diverting the mind from one place to another.Actually this is what is happening.If one God does not give anything go to another God who has promised to give what all required and the poor devotee gets himself/herself shuttling from one place to another in search of good which may or may not materialise.I hope you will now understand what I mean that no useful purpose will be served for yourself knowing who are the Jnanis I know, as the same won't help and all depends on your search sincere and devoted and finding one thru your own pursuits. I need not give such an elaborate reply to you or can keep quiet but as a friend who has raised this,I considered it is my duty to help in the most possible way.So search yourself for such an exhalted person and in due course you may find one such person and you will know the Truth provided you hv necessary devotion,sincerity,backed by Karma and Grace. Reg.your qn.No.2 reg what is your opinion abt Matha it is not my practice to make comments or opinions abt persons who are much, much higher in spiritual dimension as I am not fit to make any such things and I am sorry I hv to answer to your question only in a negative way.I am not evading your questions but speak only the truth as this is spiritual quest andnot political assessments. Good Luck. Hare Krishna. krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote: Dear Sri Ganapthy Ramanji, Many thanks for this useful article . Could you please provide the names of a few living Jnanis . What is your opinion on Mata Amritananda Mayi Devi ? . Regards, Krishnadaya guruvayur , GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: > > Four types of Bhkathas are mentioned in Gita.Three are the Aaartha,the Artha-arthi,and the Jijnasu-all these adore the Lord in an implicit form,as Paroksha. > They seek the Lord as a means for the realization of their desires and goals. > Of course they all will be in prayerful and worshipful mood always and remembering Him at all times.The Jnani is the fourth type mentioned in Gita. > He has Ekabhakthy,while others hv Anekabhakthy., the others are attached > to the objects or the states they desire and for their sake are attached to the > Lord also.They are devoted not merely to the Lord,but to the objective world > also.The Jnaniwill not raise his eyes towards anything other than God.Even > if he does,he sees the Lord wherever his eyes are cast.That is the reason why > the Lord declared that Jnani is the dearest to Him.Surely all are the same for the Lord,but among those who hv reached His presence and are present there,love > is explicit,prathyaksha,immediate directly cognisable and experienceable. > Therefore it can be referred that the Jnani is nearest to the Lord and so the > dearest. > > When one shivers from cold it is the nature of fire to warm one up.But how can > it help one to keep warm if he does not approach it but keep away at a distance?Similarly,those who are earnest to remove the chillness of worldly ills > hv to seek the fire of Jnana,which is won by the Grace of God and be in the > immediacy of God.The sadhakas in the midst of their efforts sometimes imagine > God to be less glorious than He really is.They feel that He differentiates between > sinners and saints,good and bad,jnanis and ajnanis.These are unsound > inferences.The Lord does not separate men thus.If He really did so,no sinner can survive His anger on earth for even a minute.All are living on earth,since God > has no such distinction.This truth is known only to a Jnani.Others are unaware of this.They suffer under the false belief that God is somewhere far far away from > them. > > The Jnani is free from Maya neither he is affected by the Gunas.The Jijnasu,the > seeker of knowledge,however is different.He uses his time for unbroken > contemplation of the Divine,in pious deeds and holy thoughts.The other two > Arthaarthi and Aaartha,they gather elevating experience and ruminate over the > real and unreal and transform theselves into Jijanasus,seekers of knowledge. > And later they become Jnanis and are saved.The goal is reached thus stage by > stage.Nobody can attain the goal in one leap.This is just like ,if Jnana can be dubbed as thru train where the jnani need not detrain enroute to enter another > train on the way to reach his destination,the jijnasu enters through carriage > and though he may not get down from the carriage but the carriage can be > detached and attched to another train enroute and he reaches somehow the place he wants to reach.The Aartha boards the ordinary train and the carriage > he is in is neither through nor one in a through train,he has to alight at a number > of places enroute and wait until another train comes by,so that he he can reach the destination by stages.It is a long and arduous journey.But,in spite of these > difficulties,it can be accompolished by the Aartha,if he persists.The goal is > attained by all, only the process and pace are different.No wonder Sri Krishna > declared more than once that all these four types of bhakthas are 'My Own'. > Why has He so declared?Because they all seek the same High Goal. > > The bhakthy or devotion of the jnani is what is termed as Sahajabhakthy,direct > bhakthy.The bhakthy of others can be called derived bhakthy,indirect bhakthy. > The Jnani cognises the lord as his own Atma,bhakthy is anu- rakthi,attachment > towards or affection upon God.'Poojyaeshvanura-ago bhakthy',it is said,affection > towards the reverend is bhakthy.,said Krishna.The jnani becomes so as the > result of the merit accumulated thru many lives.It is not a stage attainable on the > spur of the moment,nor is available ready-made in shops for a price and it is not > a marketable commodity.It is the culmination of the spiritual endeavour practiced > in many lives.Doctors can be produced for ministering to the people.But years of > study and experience alone can supply them,if those un-equipped are appointed > as doctors in the hospitals and if they start prescribing and operating,they are > bound to kill where they shuld cure.So too,if a person has become a jnani today > it can be imagined the years and years of sadhana he must hv put over many > lives to reach such a position. > > All kinds of people now a days call themselevs as Jnanis.Perhaps they do't know,that jnani is marked by certain characteristics.The mark that proves him genuine is of course,his declaration based on his own experience that > 'Vaasudevassarvamidam', 'Vasudeva is all this'.The steady assimilation of that > experience is the true sign of the jnani.By Vasudeva is meant here not the son > of Vasudeva,but He who made all beings His Home.It is only a pesron who > perceives the Lord in all beings that deserves to be called a Jnani.Instead if others call themselves jnanis,they are only so in name.They hv no genuine > experience of jnana.What exactly is this Jnana?It is the possession of that > knowledge which enables one to hv knowledge of all..and so enables one to > dispense with the knowledge of all else.This is the height that a true jnani reaches.On the other hand,no one can claim to be a jnani who has simply learnt a few slokas by heart,or skipped thru a few books,or ascended platforms and > lectured for hours in the full pride of scholarship,reeling off ponderous sentences > pouring out what has earlier been swallowed.We hv umpteen number of such > self styled jnanis.Their dress is ochre, but their hearts are ogre.How can stones > shine like gems?All stones are not precious stones.Who will assess a stone as > equal to a gem?Only people without knowledge will be misled.For they know > neither the one or the other. > > Bhagawan Sri Krishna declared the king of Manthras, 'Vaasudevassarvam' in the > Gita,just to counteract such pseudo-Jnanis,whose emergence He anticipated. > That one Manthra is suffice to save all mankind.That is His indirect Gift.consider > it as such and concentrate on it and its meaning.That is the highest good,that is > the highest goal.Those letters alone can make human lives worthwhile.Krishna > was referring to such real jnanis when He said that the world will shine in > splendour through the Jnanis.A man,without Jnana,is as a home without light. > > Hare Krishna. > > > > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here > Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here > India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new Click here Catch all the FIFA World Cup 2006 action on India Click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.