RE: Discussion

[Guest guest]

I have already sent my post on this. it will appear soon, I hope. The points made by you are very sound and somewhat similar to what I have written. The reason why Balaram did not side with Krishna is that eventhough he is an avathaar of sesha the point of dharma and adharma is too intricate for him to understand.The same Balarama threatened to pull the whole Hasthinapura into the river Ganges when Duryodhana insulted him and his clan during the offer of marriage by Balarama of Sambha, son of Jambavathi to daughter of Duryodhana.But it was direct confrontation. Here he thought it is only the fight between dhaayaadhis, with in the family and hence saw no reason why Krishna should interfere. That is he didnot know that all was a great drama enacted by the Lord who is the suthradhari, the director. It was the maya of the Lord here in making his avathararahsya incomprehensible to Balarama as He did to Lakshmana, the purva avathara of Balarama in

Ramavathara, whioch is why Lakshmana got agitated and declared that he will kill his own father if necessary to secure the crown for Rama. It is interesting that as Lakshman he urged Rama to fight while as Balarama he did not want Krishna to fight! All is the leela of the Lord and it is futile on our par to find the reason why Balarama or Arjuna acted as they did because the course of dharma and duty is not easy to understand by the limited human intellect as the will of the Lord is unfathomable. That is why Krishna says 'janmakarma cha me divyam evam yo vetthi thathvathah thyakthva deham punarjanma naithi maamethi so arjuna, oe who understands correctly my incarnation and my actions, which are divine, he will not be born again but attains Me.' So only a jnani can understand the truth of the actions if the incarnations of the Lord, of which Balaramais one Saroja Ramanujam"PS, Vinod K (GE Infra, Energy)"

<vinod.ps wrote: Thank you Shri Murali. Your words really charged me up. I hope this discussion be proceeded further & wish to know what others have to say. From your explanation I could understand the mental state of Balarama. But later, this tendency is visible in other characters also, especially in Arjuna. When his 'Vishada yogam' started converging with his tendency to boycott the battle, Krishna had to reframe Arjuna's state of mind on the path of Karma yoga. Am I right ?? When Arjuna, who was a

born kshatriya, decided to surrender his weapons it was not acceptable for Krishna (becoz that was not only a super-human cowardness, but also an insult to Dharma). Let me be more clear & try to concentrate from Krishna's aspect. I need not to mention here the quantum of pain taken & patience shown by Krishna to extinguish the need of this great battle. His final attempt to restore the human relationships was when he went to Hastinapura as the messenger of Pandavas. Krishna tried all means to save the blood-fall. Another IMP thing we all should bear in mind is that, for Krishna, it was more IMP to safegaurd Dharma than to protect the interests of the sons of his dear aunty. So, let us not take this great battle as a mere family fight. Though it was a 'Dharma Yuddham', it does not look that easy to bifurcate between Dharmics & Adharmics through this battle like one could do in 'Rama-Ravana Yuddham'. This battle is all-different.

Popular are the names of Dhrishtadyumna, Sikhandi, Dronacharya, Kripacharya & great Bhishma. Dhrishtadyumna (the son of Panchal) was born to uproot Dronacharya to pacify his father's revenge. This was the topmost reason for him to join the battle from Pandava side. Similarly, Sikhandi was aimed at Bhishma. But let us visualize the other 3 characters. Two among them are the Gurus of Pandavas who taught them the sacred scriptures & warfare. It was the biggest misfortune for them & for Bhishma as well to support Kauravas. But the direct reason for all of them is their patriotism which forced them take armour against Pandavas & so against Krishna. They already knew the outcome of the battle, but were tied up by the rope of patriotism which made them eligible to earn respect from Krishna everytime. Perhaps this was one reason as to why Krishna advised Yuddhistira to receive the final teachings from Bhishma at his great fall right before the

"Uttarayana". Can anybody among us claim that these old personalities were Adharmics since they fought against Pandavas ?? ... Similarly, there were a no. of other guys in the Pandava camp who fought for their own personal reasons more than for Dharma. But so great is the 'Dharma' which gifts you respect, peace & liberation, if you also take it's side mistakenly. Now let us visualize Arjuna. Arjuna for the same reason of his intense love for these age-old people & many others did not wish to raise his weapons. We shud remember that this was not the first time when he was engaged in a battle against them. Virata war is an example of it. Arjuna had a big impression abt the battle that it was a mere clash of family members in the

domain of some personal reasons and priorities, & so he decided to withdraw to stop the blood-fall. And here, our Krishna strikes & make Arjuna understand a much more deeper understanding abt the need of war. When all the efforts fail to restore Dharma & when inside the battle field the caretakers of Dharma decides to withdraw in the name of mere personal reasons, it is never acceptable to the Supreme who incarnates to protect Dharma. This is a very IMP take-away of Mahabharata. And, it was due to this very reason, I was eager to know as to why did not Balarama supported Krishna in his himalayan mission. Still my question remains half-answered. Invite your participations. Thanks for all your great support & interest. We will hit other issues as soon as we get a good outcome. Hare Krishna Hare Rama Murali Ambala Kolliyil [muraliambalakolliyil]Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:25 PMPS, Vinod K (GE Infra, Energy)Cc: agraman62; balagopal ramakrishnan; Veena A. Nair; Sunil Menon; alady sukumar; krishnadaya; Saroja Ramanujam; Mr Kris Chandran; KEERTHI KUMAR V MENON; rsunitaa; rajan nair; Sreenivas; GOPI NAIRRe: Discussion Om Namo Narayanaya: Dear Shri.Vinod, Really I appreciate this discussion. Thanks very much. Inaddition to Shri.Krishnadaya's points I just add the following which I feel make the things very clear: 3).The scene before Sri.Balarama departs for wandering the holy places: He told to "Dhamaputra, dreadful destruction is ahead. The earth is going to is a blood morass strewn with mangled bodies!. It is an evil destiny that has maddened kshatriya world to foregather here to meet its doom. Often have I told krishna, 'Duryodhana is the same to us as the pandavas. We may not take sides in their foolish qurrels' He would not listen to me. His great affection for Dhananjaya has misled Krishna and he is with you in this war which I see he has

approved. How can Krihsna and I be in opposite camps? For Bhima and Duyodhana, both of them my pupils, I have equal regard and love. How then can I support one against the other? Nor can I bear to see the Kauravas destroyed. I will therefore have nothing to do with this war, this conflagration that will consume everything. This tragedy was made me lose all interest in the world and so I shall wander among holy places". In addition to the 9th Point: Panchali put the Garlands on Arjuna after when he won the Competition and not only because of their mother's command but also as Yudhistira said to King Panchala "O king, kindly execuse us. In a time of great peril we vowed that we would share all things in common and we cannot break that pledge." Krihsna ...Guruvayoorappa.. Murali. Krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote: Sri Guruvayoorappan Saranam !!!, From my limited knowledge , I wish to answer your queries as

follows : There are certain ambiguities in Bhagavatam , that need proper interpretation . This requirement resulted in the creation of NARAYANEEYAM which gives precise answers to our doubts . We are very lucky to have with us , Brahmasri .V.Gopalakrishna( the composer of Narayaneeyam in English ) . Krishna as Arjuna's charioteer and guide , indirectly controlled the outcome of Mahabharata war, without fighting it . Had He fought in the war in the company of Balarama , they would have annihilated the Kaurava army all by themselves. In such a case, the devotees Pandavas wouldn't have any role to play to prove the ultimate victory of Dharma . So , Lord Balarama was not required to participate in

Kurukshetra war . Just prior to the war , He proceeded for a pilgrimage ; and the returned back only during the last stage to witness the fight between Bhima and Duryodana . He was angry with Bhima for hitting Duryodhana below the waste , but calmed down when Krishna pacified him . There were occasional difference of opinion between Krishna and Balarama , but always Krishna succeeded in convincing His brother . For instance Subhadra's marriage to Arjuna . Lord Balarama was

fond of Duryodhana, because in spite of all his wickedness the latter was very obedient to Him . In fact, Duryodhana tried the same technique to please Krishna but couldn't succeed . We cannot compare the Rama-avatara with Krishna-avatara . During Rama-avatara , Bhagavan lived as a righteous King , the eternal role model to mankind . Krishna -avatara reveals the potencies of the Supreme God

.. Adisesha's Lakshmana was the faithful devotee , who was totally contented with his service to Lord Rama ; and he was never discontented with his position . However , Bhagavan was pleased with his service and gave him a more domineering position in His next incarnation. Subhadra was the daughter of Vasudeva and Devaki. She

is not Durga . In fact , after her birth as the daughter of Nanda and Yashoda , Durga displayed her mighty form to Kamsa (who tried to kill Her) and disappeared to stay as Deity in various devi temples where She is worshipped . (See NARAYANEEYAM 75.10) . Ugrasena was made the king of Mathura (See NARAYANEEYAM 75.10) . Both Balarama and Krishna were not interested in power. Panchali married the (5) Pandava brothers according to the instruction of mother Kunti . The brothers and Panchali just behaved according to the Vedic rules which require one to obey the instructions of mother, father and Guru . Trust the above is useful to you. Om Namo Narayanaya !!! Krishnadaya "PS, Vinod K (GE Infra, Energy)" <vinod.ps wrote: Dear All,I have certain questions in mind & wish to know your opinions on it. In the interest of not getting into any argument within the group, I have chosen your domestic e-mail addresses. My question follows :1. Why did not Sri Balarama accompanied Sri Krishna in the Mahabharata war ? ... How could a great big brother did not justify Krishna's himalayan mission to restore peace & Dharma thru this Mega battle ? - I understand that Balarama was

not happy to see the Kuru clan clashing within itself & to avoid such situation, he opted to go on pilgrimage. Arjuna also tried the same & 'Gita' was the result ! - At the end of Bhima-Duryodhana battle, Balarama (who happens to be the Guru of Duryodhana in mace fight) is picturized by Vyasa as making an attempt to kill Bhima, for Bhima struck Duryodhana under-waist. Finally Krishna is challenging Balarama's attitude here. 2. Sri Adishesha is believed to be incarnated as Laxmana (the little brother of lord) in Treta...the same personality incarnates as Balarama (big brother) in the Dwapara. If I am correct, after Ramavataram, Adishesha expresses his grief to the Lord for not having allowed him to manage the critical situations of exile, abduction & warfares. And hence, he requests to be born as his big brother in the Krishnavataram. But as Bhagavattam & Bharatam states, there are many episodes where we see a difference in opinion

between Krishna & Balarama. For eg. Balarama was carried away by the might & eligibility of Duryodhana (than Arjuna) & therefore extended Subhadra to become Duryodhana's match. Can somebody throw light on this aspect as to why this happened & how can be it understood well ? How should one look towards the fullfilled character of Balarama (as compared to Lakshmana) ?3. Do we have strong evidences about Subhadra's birth in Bhagavattam ? There is an indication about Kamsa trying to kill the she-baby & the baby assuming the form of Durga & then vanishing. Does that same 'shakti-maya' incarnated as Subhadra ?? If so, she own a direct relationship to Yashoda & Nanda as their daughter. Now another question comes ... why did not she was handed over to Nanda & Yashoda after Krishna had assumed the throne of Mathura ? I hv not heard any refernces in Bhagavattam abt Nanda asking for his girl child from Vasudeva & Devaki.4. What was

the reason that lead to the coronation of Krishna, as the king of Mathura & not Balarama ? Balarama being born to Rohini, the first wife of Vasudeva should have been the first choice. Yadu dynasty strictly followed the age & eligibility criteria for selection. What socio-political reason in Mathura lead to this decision by king Ugrasen ?5. What is the practical explanation we have regarding Panchali marrying the pancha-pandavas beside the boon of Lord Siva ? Hope my questions did not hurt anybody. Please correct my belief .. I am desparate to know your views.Hare KrishnaHare Rama Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. Web email has come of age. Don't settle for less

than the All New Mail. May god bless you, Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit.

Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.

Try it free.