[Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] God realization

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Hari Om. I give below some verses from Swami Chinmayananda’s “Talks on Shankara’s Vivekachudamani” regarding the steps towards liberation from the cycle of births and deaths. Verse 69: For liberation, first comes extreme detachment from finite objects of sensual satisfaction. Then follow calmness, self-control, forbearance, and complete renunciation of all selfish actions. Swamiji has hailed the Vivekachudamani as a practical guide to a seeker of liberation. Any true seeker will be impatient not only to understand the nature of liberation but also to get a detailed discussion of the conditions under which one can achieve it. Chief among the conditions

are: The capacity to be completely detached from the craving for things known to be finite and perishable. A discriminative intellect (viveka) can grow only when there is full detachment (vairagya). Without developing disinterest in acquiring and enjoying material pleasures we cannot enter the gates of true Wisdom. Only when we recognize the finite, impermanent or transient nature of things, will we invest our energies in uplifting ourselves from the present stage to spiritual freedom. In Verse 76, Shankara has given five examples of attachment to the senses: The deer is always fascinated by melodious sounds and the deer hunter sings to charm the deer. Attracted by the sound, the deer moves towards it and becomes a target of the hunter’s arrow. Elephants, especially in the mating season, become extremely attached to the sense of touch, rubbing against each other and walking without paying attention, and fall into the pits that have been dug to trap them. The moth is enchanted by form and attracted by the brilliance of the flame. It flutters towards it with an agonizing impatience and gets burnt. The fish, hungry at all times, in its greed, swallows the bait and is trapped in the net and ends in the stomach of fish-eaters. The poor honey bee, attracted by the fragrance of flowers, collects honey from the flowers and hoards it in a hive until Man sets fire to the hive to get that honey. Shankara says “then what is to become of Man, who is attached to all the five senses?” He says that even the poison of a cobra is less dangerous because one gets affected only when one gets bitten; but the five senses are more dangerous because even one look towards the object of desire can be dangerous (examples can be seen even in the Ramayana especially of the rakshasa Maricha in the disguise of a deer drawing Rama away from Sita). Verse 70. Thereafter comes “hearing”, then reflection on what has been heard and lastly long and constant continuous meditation on the Truth for the Muni (wise Teacher). Ultimately that learned one attains the Nirvikalpa state and realizes the bliss of Nirvana in this very life. An individual who has cultivated calmness, self-control, forbearance, and complete renunciation of all selfish actions is fit for “hearing” the scriptures. It is important that one listen to the explanation of at least one scriptural text from a true Teacher. Listening (sravana) to the discourses is to be followed by inner arguments and final assimilation by the intellect in a process called reflection (manana); only then the ideas in the text can become inculcated in the student’s own life. Listening and reflection is to be followed by dhyana which is the disciplining of one’s thoughts. When one has practiced dhyana for many many years, daily (nityam) and constantly (nirantaram) then one gets established in God consciousness. Verse 82

If you have any craving for liberation, avoid sense objects from a distance just as you avoid things known to be poisonous. And with respectful devotion, daily cultivate the nectarine virtues—contentment, forgiveness, straightforwardness, calmness, and self-control. Although concepts such as self-control, detachment, discrimination etc. seem way beyond our simple understanding, Sankara also offers us encouragement. As early as in Verse 3, he says”manushyatwam, mumukshatwam, mahaapurusha sanshraya”. Sankara says that to be born as a human being (manushyatwam) is a sign of God’s grace. Then “mumukshatwam” which is a burning desire to achieve liberation and finally “mahaa-purusha samshraya” a desire to achieve the company of holy people culminating in a Guru to direct one’s path—all these are signs of God’s

grace. One who has been born as a human being and is aware of what is laid down in the scriptures, if such a person does not have the enthusiasm to strive for liberation, such a person is called a “mudha-dhihi” a dull fool by Shankara. This happens when one is blinded by objects and busies oneself in running after things to satisfy the body and mind. --------------- Thanks for your mail Sunita. I have had this book for a while after another friend reccommended it as a must for someone interested in spirituality. But with everything else going on, it was confined to the shelf, until your mail came along and I was encouraged to pick it up. I hope Shri Ramanji will contribute some of his thoughts too and so will the other members. Om Namo Narayanaya. rsunitaa

<rsunitaa wrote: Om Namo Narayanaya! Shri Ganapathy Ramanji, Please can you kindly guide us as to what we can do in addition to Nama Samkirtanam for GOD realisation. guruvayur , Syamala Nair <syamalaraghunath wrote: > > Dear Shri Ganapathy Ramanji > > Thank you for the mail. > > First of all let me with all frankess inform you

that I did not feel anything bad about your statement. Infact I am happy that I have been corrected where I am wrong . You have correctly said, I did not understand the subject properly. I focused my attention only on the benefits of nama japam and was all the more eager to share my experience with the group . I just overlooked the fact about God realisation for which one has to take mantra from a "Guru" and is a thorny path and is not that easy. > > Thank you for drawing my attention to this and I accept your comments/clarification in very good spirit and value your comments. > > Await much more such information from members like you > > Sincerely > Syamala > > > > > > > > GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: > Dear

Syamala, > > It is really appreciable that your faith and bhakthy helped you in getting your illness cured.However I am afraid that you hv not properly studied the subject > which I wrote.As you,yourself have said that I hv stressed nama japa as the > foundation for spiritual advancement.I dealt a subject abt God Realization and not the merits of nama japa and hence I emphasised that nama japa alone won't > take one in the higher dimensions of spiritualism.I think there is some confusion > in your reading what I hv written.As we don't hv much idea abt the earlier yugas except from puranas it is my view that blaming Kali yuga alone is not a correct > approach.Even during the earlier yugas there were weapons of mass destruction like so many astras and many were adept in using the same.So too there were many medicines though not in

the form of tablets but from nature given plants for > getting illness cured which they adopted.As we hv wars and other things in earlier yugas all those things were there and jealousy, interest in expanding empire were there even in those times.Sure in those times they had plenty of time for doing yagas and other things but that did not prevent the evil forces from > disturbing them also.So what we hv now is that all those things are in a new shape.That is all.Even with plenty of time available they could not develop much the countries but spent the time in scheming and other things and we hv no idea abt the common people except the rulers and their machinations.Now those things are there for our own vision.While in those times many things were done thru mantras now all are done by scientific development.So the status quo > is always there and only the methods hv

changed. > Anyways your mail is commendable for your experiences.Regarding tulsi leaves > even now in almost all vishnu temples they give the same as theertham as tulsi leaves hv got great effect in relieving many illness and that is why we worship tulsi more than other plants.So there is no point in blaming kali yuga for all the ills as the same were common in the earlier yugas also.As we depend for those things some puranas we take the same as granted.Lord Krishna who in His time was considered as a super magician is now regarded as God.So too as time goes by what people we say magicians may become God.It is only Time that decides everything.I appreciate your reply and if you could understand what I hv written then perhaps you may agree to some extent.That is your privilege and I hv nothing to say and this I hv written not as a rebuttal of your belief but only as a clarificatory statement.Hope you will take this in good spirits.Such comments will only enhance the maturity of the Group I believe, and in this you hv done a good job.God Bless. > > Hare Krishna, > > agraman. > > > > > Syamala Nair <syamalaraghunath wrote: > Dear Shri Ganapathy Ramanjai > > My knowledge in this is very much limited. I also agree with Shri Ganapathy Ramanji that only nama japam is not sufficient but ofcourse nama japam is a must. In the Bhagavatham, Bhagawan mentioned how he can be worshiped at the four yugas. For Kaliyuga, it is mentioned Nama Sankeertanam. According to me during Satyuga, Tretayuga and Dwapara Yuga, people had time to do the tapa, dhyanam, yangam etc., as there were nothing much to distract their attention. However, in Kaliyuga,

God knew , people willl never be able to do all the above as circumstances will be such and at times will even forget that one super power is there. May be because of that it is said nama sankeertanam will give the same benefit of other yangas done in other yugas. Nama japam can be done anywhere and everywhere. Thus mankind will take HIS name atleast once in a while in the busy schedule of life and he can guide such people in the right direction. > > However, my firm belief is that nama japam can do miracles in curing diseases. Sincere prayer always have more value than medicine. We all know how Shri Melpathurji got cured of his vata rogam. > > Last year, I had boils all over my body. I took medicine, but there was no improvement. Finallly I decided to do archana for Guruvayoorappan with tulsi leaves every day chanting some slokas and also reciting "roga hara Shri Guruvayoor stotram" ( from Agre Pashyami - a publication of Giri Trading). Also I started keeping water in kindi and after archana pick up some tulsi leaves and put in the water. Next day morning I drink that water and also take the smell of the tulsi leaves lying at HIS feet. This I did after saying" This is my sidhaushadam and I have no other solace except HIM" . No one will believe. It worked. Now I am free from this, but even today I continue doing the archana and drinking the teertham with all humility. > > A humble devotee > Syamala > > > > > > > > > GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote: > I agree with you Balagopal.There is a general trend that whatever happens that are bad it is becozof Kali Yuga as if

nothing had happened in the earlier yugas.But even from Puranas which form the foundation of the happenings of the > earlier yugas there were all sorts of evil things like war,jealousy,lust,anger, > mutual distrust,scheming etc and why shuld we blame Kali Yuga only,I am still > unable to fathom.It is also true that the learned people had said that Nama sankeertan is sufficient in Kali Yuga.How can they know that?Is it possible to > spend the full day doing Nama sankeertan.That is way away from tangent of > pragmatism.In fact in Kali Yuga more things are done good also due to the > development of all fields and prosperity of mankind in general.Poverty,illiteracy and all such things are not the property of Kali Yuga only and the same were there even earlier yugas.So blaming everything ill as due to Kali yuga carries no > weight.We hv been trained from our childhood in such a way without allowing > independent thinking and just repeating the old puranas of the earlier yugas when milk and honey were supposed to flow contrary to facts.So instead of blaming this yuga for anything and everything man must strive to develop him > first and not to buckle under the theory of all ills are due to Kali Yuga. > > Of course nama smaran is only one of the ways for development of bhakthy and that alone won't lead to the finall consummation as ignorantly thought as the > process in this are not properly understood and can't be understood from our > present state of evolutionary aspects and hence it is advised by the great people just say nama for all the ills as one teaches a child in the KG class.But when the child grows and reaches post graduation level still lingering on

the subject of > KG class,will not that look funny?The foundation is built in KG class and it is for the child to develop its knowledge by studying various other subjects and then only progress comes even in material world and then there is no necessity to talk abt the spiritual world which is not for all to access and only highy qualified > souls can reach that and just by thinking by doing simply nama smarana all can be achieved in spirtual world shows only some misguided perceptions.Then why the great people said that?It is only to develop the individual soul to develop by starting somewhere as advanced teachings can't be understood and so just for beginners the same were taught.So by saying nama smarana alone nobody is going to get any God realisation.To counter this some people like Thyagaraya and others can be quoted.But they left eveything and spent the full time

doing nama japa.Can anybody do the same now in the present day world without thinking abt other commitments?So too much need not be studied abt nama japa alone as a panacea for all illness.Nama japa is only one of the ways of developing bhakthy but that alone won't make reach Godhood as one thinks.It is always heartening to think abt Realisation but what is that nobody can answer as the path is very arduous and just by reading some texts > nothing can be proceeded with uness more practical,experiences are there which alone can make one understand the subjects and that requires so many things which had been repeated by me umpteen times and hence no more repetition is required. > This does not confer as if a I am a great soul and on the verge of Realisation which may take several births but I say this with my acquaintances with some Realised souls and after hearing their experiences which unfortunately I hv not been able to enjoy so far though occasionally some glimpses can be seen.That is all.Hence my conclusion that spiritualism is a thorny way and one can succeed only thru the Grace of Guru and vigorous practices.As I always say this is only my views and there may be better souls who hv greater experiences and > knowledge and sometimes they may be right in their own ways.So my belief > that bookish knowledge and writings can be made by anybody by learning but to enter the domain is not as easy as one thinks or imagines.Then what is the alternative?One has to put his foundation strong like nama japa,and other things before embarking on higher courses and never imagine that nama japa alone will lead one to Moksha,a concept which nobody can define except > Realised sages.Other things are only stories good for reading like fairy

tales.I > am not for controversy on this as all hv their own views but just touched what I felt. > > Hare Krishna. > > > > > balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: > HARI AUM > > Thinking of it, this 'only chanting of names' is ONLY > a way out when one is short of all other avenues to > seek HIM. > > I think as soon as we acquire the habit of chanting > his name, which shall be done 24*7 while engaging in > all other activities of life, one is also supposed to > proceed further into the realm of KNOWLEDGE (Jnana)to > dispel the darknened ignorance and realise the self. > > With just namsankeertan one can build a bed but will > benefit more if the water of knowledge is allowed to > flow thru irrigating the humanity

as a whole. > > Welcoming more on this from our members. > > Regards > > Balagopal > > NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA > > --- vinita manikantan <vinitamanikantan > wrote: > > > > > Dear Chandrasekharan Nairji and Jayashreeji > > > > I wish to add some thing more on your discussion. > > > > we are living in the age of Kali, called Kaliyuga. > > > > In other yugas, the yuga-dharma (process of > > self-realization for the age) is much more > > difficult. > > For example, in the satya-yuga, the yuga-dharma is > > ashtanga-yoga. People would have to live alone in > > the > > forests and engage in severe austerities and > > meditation for thousands of years to come to the > > platform of

self-realization. Such a process is > > difficult even in the exalted age of satya-yuga. In > > the kali-yuga the Lord gives us one very special > > benediction. Since we have lost all good qualities, > > and since we have no proper qualification, the Lord > > gives us the simplest and quickest method for > > self-realization - chanting His holy names. > > > > harer nama harer nama > > harer namaiva kevalam > > kalau nastyeva nastyeva > > nastyeva gatir anyatha > > > > "In the age of Kali there is no other way to attain > > the supreme destination of life except the chanting > > of > > the names of Sri Hari. There is no other way, no > > other > > way, no other way." > > > > i wish to add some thing about Kaliyuga and kaliyuga > > Dharma > > > > Pleas read more > > > > Your Servant > > > > Vinita Manikantan > > > > Of all the yugas the Kali-yuga has been described in > > the shastras as the worst. The Bhagavata Purana > > describes and defines the qualities of Kali-yuga as > > follows: > > > > yada mayanritam tandra > > nidra himsa vishadanam > > shoka-mohau bhayam dainyam > > sa kalis tamasah smritah > > > > "When there is a predominance of cheating, lying, > > sloth, sleepiness, violence, depression, > > lamentation, > > bewilderment, fear and poverty, that age is Kali, > > the > > age of the mode of ignorance." > > > > Why these qualities develop is further explained: > > > > prayena martya bhagavantam

acyutam > > yakshyanti pashanda-vibhinna-cetasah > > > > "In the Kali-yuga the human beings will not offer > > sacrifice to God because their intelligence will be > > diverted by atheism." > > > > dharmam vakshyanty adharma-jna > > adhiruhyottamasanam > > > > "Those who know nothing about religion will mount a > > high seat and presume to speak on religious > > principles." > > > > vedah pashanda-dushitah > > > > "The Vedas will be contaminated by the speculative > > interpretations of atheists." > > > > Thus with the degradation of religion, and the rise > > of > > atheistic thought, all sacrifice to God will be > > stopped. Human life is unique among all forms of > > life > > in that it alone offers

the opportunity for > > spiritual > > advancement. Due to the fully blossomed mental > > faculties, the human is able to inquire into the > > source of everything, the absolute truth. Without > > this > > inquiry, the human being is essentially no better > > than > > a common animal. The scriptures describe such people > > as dvi-pada pashu, or "two legged animals"). Thus > > such > > a society without spiritual endeavour is nothing > > more > > than an animalistic society of cats and dogs. Among > > the cats and dogs we do not expect there to be peace > > and harmony. Likewise, when human beings live in > > animalistic consciousness, we cannot expect there to > > be any peace in the society - there will be only war > > (kalih). Thus the situation becomes the "age of >

> war", > > or kali-yuga. > > > > Some of the other qualities of the age are described > > as follows: > > > > na rakshishyanti manujah > > sthavirau pitarav api > > > > "Men will no longer protect their elderly parents." > > > > durbiksha-kara-karshitah > > > > "The people will become emaciated by famine and > > taxation." > > > > nityam udvigna-manaso > > > > "Their minds will constantly be disturbed and > > agitated." > > > > rajanash ca praja-bhakshah > > > > "The politicians will virtually eat their citizens." > > > > dasyutkrishta janapada > > > > "The cities will be dominated by theives." > > > > vittam eva kalau nrinam >

> janmacara-gunodayah > > dharma-nyay-vyavasthayam > > karanam balam eva hi > > > > "In the Kali-yuga, wealth alone will be considered > > the > > sign of a man's good birth, proper behaviour and > > fine > > qualities. And law and justice will be applied only > > on > > the basis of one's power." > > > > vipratve sutram eva hi > > > > "One will be known as a brahmana simply by wearing a > > thread (not by one's qualities or knowledge)." > > > > tatash canu-dinam dharmah > > satyam shaucam kshama daya > > kalena balina rajan > > nankshyaty ayur balam smritih > > > > "Truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, mercy, > > duration > > of life, physical strength and memory will all > > diminish day

by day because of the powerful > > influence > > of the age of Kali." > > > > The four yugas (satya, treta, dvapara, and kali) > > rotate like seasons. Just as certain seasons have > > particular qualities (summer is hot, winter is > > cold), > > so each cosmic age has particular qualities. In the > > Satya yuga (the age of truth) the entire population > > is > > religious and self-satisfied. Their aim is only self > > realization. All of the godly qualities are present > > in > > the Satya yuga. > > > > Due to the influence of time, all things degrade and > > decay. Thus as the age passes from Satya-yuga to > > Treta-yuga, the subtle qualities of people degrade, > > and thus there is a loss of truthfullness, > > austerity, > > mercy, etc. As

the time passes from one age to the > > next, one quarter of all good qualities and religion > > are lost. Thus as the Treta-yuga begins, only 75% of > > the people are interested in spiritual activities. > > Then as the Dvapara-yuga begins, only 50% of the > > population is interested in God consciousness. > > Finally > > as the Kali-yuga begins, only 25% of the population > > is > > interested in religion, and this number gradually > > reduces to zero, at which time the Lord incarnates > > as > > the Kalki avatara to put an end to the Kali yuga and > > bring about a new cosmic cycle of time beginning > > again > > with the Satya-yuga. > > > > Just as the good qualities of the people degrade, in > > the same way their life spans also decrease from age > > >

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First of all I must admit that I don't hv much knowledge abt Upanishads, scriptures and such other high phylosphical texts.So what I usually write is more or less from a pragmatic approach with some occasional quotes which I glance thru some of the texts and sometimes the same be against the well established and accepted theories of Great Teachers.This is not to dispute their versions but in my opinion we hv not evolved to such an extent as to assimilate their philosophy and may take several births to reach such stage though I don't dispute there may be great souls who are completing or close to completing their vicious cycle. It has always been the inquisitiveness of the human beings from time immemoril to find out who created all these things and in the initial evolutionary stage the human beings were even afraid of everything as super human being.But with the gradual evolution process and with the development of knowledge thru experiences the human beings came to the conclusion that there must be a great Power who has created all these things and tried over millions of years to find out who can that Being be whether the same is a man or woman or It.Still the answer could not be found as different sages in the successive generations defined various theories according to their experiments in various ways and wrote various things defining such and such thing shuld be God or Brahman which the name they gave and the same is being followed even now.Many sages in various yugas by their deep penance which they considered as a weapon to find out the Reality got realisation of the Being according to their own conceptions and defined the same.However they were more or less unanimous that the Power which created everything is ONE only though they gave different names accoring to

their choice and started writing puranas and other scriptures for posterity. In fact God Realisation is such a subject which has not been explicitly defined by anybody so far as I know and the so called Realised souls left the same for the human beings to find out on their own, though in the process they gave some valuable guidances to follow to pursue to achieve the goal for ardent aspirants.This led many acharyas in later years to make hymns,mantras,namas and other things which if followed strictctly with discipline may lead a true aspirant to realise the Supreme to a great extent.As the process is arduous and not like purchasing something from super markets and entirely different from the material world it is quite impossible for all to achieve the goal.Knowing this fully well the Realised people prescribed various methods so as to at least create an awareness on the aspirant minds to get

themselves progress in this otherwise difficult path.They also enunciated that God is nothing but the Realisation of one's Self.If one knows his original source then he or she has achieved the target.Even sage Ramana says the same thing.But as this is difficult for consumption in the present day world many other alternatives are prescribed to enable the people to climb in the ladder of spiritualim step by step thru various practices such as namas,yogas,dhyana,contemplation etc and at the same time for practicing these things several disciplines are also prescribed without which it is impossible to achieve the target. We must also know that the Realised souls are also human beings and just becoz they hv achieved their target they don't change into any other forms.But what we can't see in ordinary mortal we can see in them as they are always in a state of bliss,joy,peace as they are able to

contain their minds and though they might hv acquired several powers thru their penance they never use the same unless they hv been commanded by the Supreme as they hv submitted themselves entirely to the Supreme and become part of the same and the Supreme Power also won't interfere in any activity and allow the souls to enjoy or suffer according to their karmas and if at all one is helped in when in dire staraights it is not becoz of the Grace though the same will also be there to a certain extent but due to their karmic deeds only of the earlier births.There are people who used to say that God is on their part when they succeed in everything and when they suffer failures and others succeed the same people may complain that God is not on their part but on the partof the other persons.This individual jealousy,ego,pride,vanity,self importance etc shuld go frm the minds of the aspirants to get the reflection of the Supreme in their inner mind as all

these emanate from their physical mind.This is possible only thru leading a life of slowly and steadily leaving everything to the will of the Supreme and try to suppress the egocomplex and thinking always that whatever they hv achieved is due to their good deeds and also due to the mercy of the Creator. Inthis way their minds get purified and invite the Great Power to come inside and reside within themselves.What we see outside in the form of an idol,object and such things are only temporary as we soon forget after worshipping them in temples and engage in our worldly commitments though occasionally the remembrance comes but that won't take us far.On the other hand if an aspirant is able to realise the God within his inner mind he is always attuned to the same and his progress in reaching the goal will be more quick.For this only the dhyana and contemplation are recommended.During such time all the negative

thoughts shuld be wiped out from the mind and earthly thoughts also shuld also be send out of the mind and the mind shuld be in deep concentration of God only to the exclusion of everything else.How many people can strive for this? Surely anybody can achieve this if he or she possess the necessary will power which is the vital factor in this.Come what may,they shuld hv a dynamic will power and shuld not waver from the goal in their deep concentration and contemplation and this shuld be done for some long time though initially one can start with some minutes as the mind is the greatest factor which never allows one to concentrate on a particular thing for long but by practice and experience the same can be contained and if the process is contiued for several years,onemay be able to see the light passing into their soul and can get the vision inside one's inner mind and can even talk with the Deity form he or she has adopted and continuing this for more years the Deity will get submerged in the individual soul and the same will unite with the Universal mind.Soul and atman is the same thing but so far I hv no idea of what exactly we refer by this. To be precise this is the correct procedure and only thru this one can achievethe goal and during the process a vital power which is lying dormant will rise and move upwards and the individual aspirant gets automatically detached from all worldly activities as the new experiment gives him or her great peace and joy and bliss and will cover all the worlds that are in the cosmos and find the same in their individualsoul which has already become universal soul.What is in macrocasm it is in micocasm is the law.Then when the atman becomes one with the Paramatman the individual he or she enjoys only joy and peace ane never bothers abt the going on in this world as they consider the same as only

maya which will automatically vanish as they hv reached the Super conscious stage and this is what Sri Krishna gave in His teachings to arjuna. Now coming to Viveka Chudamani the same is not written by Sankara for lesser souls but for tose who hv achieved some great heights in the ladder of spirtual domain.When an individual has reached the state of self realisation what is the necessity for him/her to bother abt scriptures?That is meant only for lesser souls who are onthe path of climbing up the ladder.I am not saying Sankara is wrong.Scriptures,namas and other such things are only stepping stones in the spiritual ladder.When one goes higher upthere is no necessity for all these as all knowledge will automatically to such great souls.There is no necessity for even trying detachment from wordly affairs and that too will become part and parcel of the knowledge acquired by such

souls.But all these require the guidance of a perfect Guru in the higher stages and without his guidance it is impossible to go to great heights and to reach the goal.However when the aspirant is very sincere and follow all the disciplines prescribed and ever immersed in the thoughtof God thru concentration and contemplation,which will come without asking when one is moving up certainly some Guru will appear before him/her and guide in the right path.There is no doubt abt that.There is no necessity to go in search of such a Guru.When the mental set up is ripened the Guru will come on his own according to the scheme of God and guide the aspirant towards his ultimate goal.Sincere dedication to such a perfect Guru will bring more effect.The Gurus we go and search may not be real gurus and so one can wait till the Guru,who is real and perfect reaches the aspirant.Then depending upon the wiping ot of the karmas the goal can be reached.I hv always

emphsised bookish knowlege will lead us nowhere in spiritual realm and only practical knowledge can. It is easy to think abt God Realisation but the path is not so rosy unless there is sincerity,ambition,will to achieve the goal on the part of the aspirant.For others there are various methods prescribed by the acharyas to pratice to clean their physical and inner minds and the same can be followed.This is not todiscourage the aspirants to move away from the path of finding the goal but on the other hand can be treated only as a guidance for their upliftment.The more interest one shows on the path the more will be the result.Just by reading Gita or scriptures won't take anyone anywhere in the path although for understanding's sake the same can be studied.As this is always a controversial subject which I always handle all depends on individual perceptions and convictions.As desired by Veena I hv given only what I thought though thru some experience from such realised persons and this is only my view as nobody can claim authority on a subject like this.There can be better views from others too as thisis not the final thing in this subject.For beginners who can't find a proper Guru even the God be taken as their manasika Guru till they get one when the time comes when they are qualified for uplift in the spiritual domain. Hare Krisha, agraman. "Veena A. Nair" <veeus18 wrote: Hari Om. I give below some verses from Swami Chinmayananda’s “Talks on Shankara’s Vivekachudamani” regarding the steps towards liberation from the cycle of births and deaths. Verse 69: For liberation, first comes extreme detachment from finite objects of sensual satisfaction. Then follow calmness, self-control, forbearance, and complete renunciation of all selfish actions. Swamiji has hailed the Vivekachudamani as a practical guide to a seeker of liberation. Any true seeker will be impatient not only to understand the nature of

liberation but also to get a detailed discussion of the conditions under which one can achieve it. Chief among the conditions are: The capacity to be completely detached from the craving for things known to be finite and perishable. A discriminative intellect (viveka) can grow only when there is full detachment (vairagya). Without developing disinterest in acquiring and enjoying material pleasures we cannot enter the gates of true Wisdom. Only when we recognize the finite, impermanent or transient nature of things, will we invest our energies in uplifting ourselves from the present stage to spiritual freedom. In Verse 76, Shankara has given five examples of attachment to the senses: The deer is always fascinated by melodious sounds and the deer hunter sings to charm the deer. Attracted

by the sound, the deer moves towards it and becomes a target of the hunter’s arrow. Elephants, especially in the mating season, become extremely attached to the sense of touch, rubbing against each other and walking without paying attention, and fall into the pits that have been dug to trap them. The moth is enchanted by form and attracted by the brilliance of the flame. It flutters towards it with an agonizing impatience and gets burnt. The fish, hungry at all times, in its greed, swallows the bait and is trapped in the net and ends in the stomach of fish-eaters. The poor honey bee, attracted by the fragrance of flowers, collects honey from the flowers and hoards it in a hive until Man sets fire to the hive to get that honey. Shankara says “then what is to become of Man, who is attached to all the five senses?” He says that even the poison of a cobra is less dangerous because one gets affected only when one gets bitten; but the five senses are more dangerous because even one look towards the object of desire can be dangerous (examples can be seen even in the Ramayana especially of the rakshasa Maricha in the disguise of a deer drawing Rama away from Sita). Verse 70. Thereafter comes “hearing”, then reflection on what has been heard and lastly long and constant continuous meditation on the Truth for the Muni (wise Teacher). Ultimately that learned one attains the Nirvikalpa state and realizes the bliss of Nirvana in this very life. An individual who has cultivated calmness, self-control,

forbearance, and complete renunciation of all selfish actions is fit for “hearing” the scriptures. It is important that one listen to the explanation of at least one scriptural text from a true Teacher. Listening (sravana) to the discourses is to be followed by inner arguments and final assimilation by the intellect in a process called reflection (manana); only then the ideas in the text can become inculcated in the student’s own life. Listening and reflection is to be followed by dhyana which is the disciplining of one’s thoughts. When one has practiced dhyana for many many years, daily (nityam) and constantly (nirantaram) then one gets established in God consciousness. Verse 82 If you have any craving for liberation, avoid sense objects from a distance just as you avoid things known to be poisonous. And with respectful devotion, daily

cultivate the nectarine virtues—contentment, forgiveness, straightforwardness, calmness, and self-control. Although concepts such as self-control, detachment, discrimination etc. seem way beyond our simple understanding, Sankara also offers us encouragement. As early as in Verse 3, he says”manushyatwam, mumukshatwam, mahaapurusha sanshraya”. Sankara says that to be born as a human being (manushyatwam) is a sign of God’s grace. Then “mumukshatwam” which is a burning desire to achieve liberation and finally “mahaa-purusha samshraya” a desire to achieve the company of holy people culminating in a Guru to direct one’s path—all these are signs of God’s grace. One who has been born as a human being and is aware of what is laid down in the scriptures, if such a person does not have the enthusiasm to strive for liberation, such a person is called a “mudha-dhihi” a dull fool by Shankara.

This happens when one is blinded by objects and busies oneself in running after things to satisfy the body and mind. --------------- Thanks for your mail Sunita. I have had this book for a while after another friend reccommended it as a must for someone interested in spirituality. But with everything else going on, it was confined to the shelf, until your mail came along and I was encouraged to pick it up. I hope Shri Ramanji will contribute some of his thoughts too and so will the other members.Om Namo Narayanaya.rsunitaa <rsunitaa > wrote: Om Namo Narayanaya!Shri Ganapathy Ramanji, Please can you kindly

guide us as to what we can do in addition to Nama Samkirtanam for GOD realisation. guruvayur , Syamala Nair <syamalaraghunath wrote:>> Dear Shri Ganapathy Ramanji> > Thank you for the mail.> > First of all let me with all frankess inform you that I did not feel anything bad about your statement. Infact I am happy that I have been corrected where I am wrong . You have correctly said, I did not understand the subject properly. I focused my attention only on the benefits of nama japam and was all the more eager to share my experience with the group . I just overlooked the fact about God realisation for which one has to take mantra from a "Guru" and is a thorny path and is not that easy. > > Thank you for drawing my attention to this and I accept your comments/clarification in

very good spirit and value your comments.> > Await much more such information from members like you> > Sincerely> Syamala> > > > > > > > GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:> Dear Syamala,> > It is really appreciable that your faith and bhakthy helped you in getting your illness cured.However I am afraid that you hv not properly studied the subject> which I wrote.As you,yourself have said that I hv stressed nama japa as the > foundation for spiritual advancement.I dealt a subject abt God Realization and not the merits of nama japa and hence I emphasised that nama japa alone won't> take one in the higher dimensions of spiritualism.I think there is some confusion > in your reading what I hv written.As we don't hv much idea abt the earlier yugas except from puranas it is my view that

blaming Kali yuga alone is not a correct > approach.Even during the earlier yugas there were weapons of mass destruction like so many astras and many were adept in using the same.So too there were many medicines though not in the form of tablets but from nature given plants for > getting illness cured which they adopted.As we hv wars and other things in earlier yugas all those things were there and jealousy, interest in expanding empire were there even in those times.Sure in those times they had plenty of time for doing yagas and other things but that did not prevent the evil forces from > disturbing them also.So what we hv now is that all those things are in a new shape.That is all.Even with plenty of time available they could not develop much the countries but spent the time in scheming and other things and we hv no idea abt the common people except the rulers and their machinations.Now those

things are there for our own vision.While in those times many things were done thru mantras now all are done by scientific development.So the status quo > is always there and only the methods hv changed.> Anyways your mail is commendable for your experiences.Regarding tulsi leaves> even now in almost all vishnu temples they give the same as theertham as tulsi leaves hv got great effect in relieving many illness and that is why we worship tulsi more than other plants.So there is no point in blaming kali yuga for all the ills as the same were common in the earlier yugas also.As we depend for those things some puranas we take the same as granted.Lord Krishna who in His time was considered as a super magician is now regarded as God.So too as time goes by what people we say magicians may become God.It is only Time that decides everything.I appreciate your reply and if you could understand what I hv

written then perhaps you may agree to some extent.That is your privilege and I hv nothing to say and this I hv written not as a rebuttal of your belief but only as a clarificatory statement.Hope you will take this in good spirits.Such comments will only enhance the maturity of the Group I believe, and in this you hv done a good job.God Bless.> > Hare Krishna,> > agraman.> > > > > Syamala Nair <syamalaraghunath wrote:> Dear Shri Ganapathy Ramanjai> > My knowledge in this is very much limited. I also agree with Shri Ganapathy Ramanji that only nama japam is not sufficient but ofcourse nama japam is a must. In the Bhagavatham, Bhagawan mentioned how he can be worshiped at the four yugas. For Kaliyuga, it is mentioned Nama Sankeertanam. According to me during Satyuga, Tretayuga and Dwapara Yuga, people had time to do the tapa, dhyanam,

yangam etc., as there were nothing much to distract their attention. However, in Kaliyuga, God knew , people willl never be able to do all the above as circumstances will be such and at times will even forget that one super power is there. May be because of that it is said nama sankeertanam will give the same benefit of other yangas done in other yugas. Nama japam can be done anywhere and everywhere. Thus mankind will take HIS name atleast once in a while in the busy schedule of life and he can guide such people in the right direction. > > However, my firm belief is that nama japam can do miracles in curing diseases. Sincere prayer always have more value than medicine. We all know how Shri Melpathurji got cured of his vata rogam. > > Last year, I had boils all over my body. I took medicine, but there was no improvement. Finallly I decided to do archana for Guruvayoorappan with tulsi leaves

every day chanting some slokas and also reciting "roga hara Shri Guruvayoor stotram" ( from Agre Pashyami - a publication of Giri Trading). Also I started keeping water in kindi and after archana pick up some tulsi leaves and put in the water. Next day morning I drink that water and also take the smell of the tulsi leaves lying at HIS feet. This I did after saying" This is my sidhaushadam and I have no other solace except HIM" . No one will believe. It worked. Now I am free from this, but even today I continue doing the archana and drinking the teertham with all humility.> > A humble devotee> Syamala> > > > > > > > > GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:> I agree with you Balagopal.There is a general trend that whatever happens that are bad it is becozof Kali Yuga as if nothing had happened in the earlier yugas.But even from

Puranas which form the foundation of the happenings of the > earlier yugas there were all sorts of evil things like war,jealousy,lust,anger,> mutual distrust,scheming etc and why shuld we blame Kali Yuga only,I am still > unable to fathom.It is also true that the learned people had said that Nama sankeertan is sufficient in Kali Yuga.How can they know that?Is it possible to > spend the full day doing Nama sankeertan.That is way away from tangent of > pragmatism.In fact in Kali Yuga more things are done good also due to the > development of all fields and prosperity of mankind in general.Poverty,illiteracy and all such things are not the property of Kali Yuga only and the same were there even earlier yugas.So blaming everything ill as due to Kali yuga carries no > weight.We hv been trained from our childhood in such a way without allowing > independent thinking and

just repeating the old puranas of the earlier yugas when milk and honey were supposed to flow contrary to facts.So instead of blaming this yuga for anything and everything man must strive to develop him > first and not to buckle under the theory of all ills are due to Kali Yuga.> > Of course nama smaran is only one of the ways for development of bhakthy and that alone won't lead to the finall consummation as ignorantly thought as the > process in this are not properly understood and can't be understood from our > present state of evolutionary aspects and hence it is advised by the great people just say nama for all the ills as one teaches a child in the KG class.But when the child grows and reaches post graduation level still lingering on the subject of > KG class,will not that look funny?The foundation is built in KG class and it is for the child to develop its knowledge by studying

various other subjects and then only progress comes even in material world and then there is no necessity to talk abt the spiritual world which is not for all to access and only highy qualified > souls can reach that and just by thinking by doing simply nama smarana all can be achieved in spirtual world shows only some misguided perceptions.Then why the great people said that?It is only to develop the individual soul to develop by starting somewhere as advanced teachings can't be understood and so just for beginners the same were taught.So by saying nama smarana alone nobody is going to get any God realisation.To counter this some people like Thyagaraya and others can be quoted.But they left eveything and spent the full time doing nama japa.Can anybody do the same now in the present day world without thinking abt other commitments?So too much need not be studied abt nama japa alone as a panacea for

all illness.Nama japa is only one of the ways of developing bhakthy but that alone won't make reach Godhood as one thinks.It is always heartening to think abt Realisation but what is that nobody can answer as the path is very arduous and just by reading some texts> nothing can be proceeded with uness more practical,experiences are there which alone can make one understand the subjects and that requires so many things which had been repeated by me umpteen times and hence no more repetition is required.> This does not confer as if a I am a great soul and on the verge of Realisation which may take several births but I say this with my acquaintances with some Realised souls and after hearing their experiences which unfortunately I hv not been able to enjoy so far though occasionally some glimpses can be seen.That is all.Hence my conclusion that spiritualism is a thorny way and one can succeed only thru the

Grace of Guru and vigorous practices.As I always say this is only my views and there may be better souls who hv greater experiences and > knowledge and sometimes they may be right in their own ways.So my belief > that bookish knowledge and writings can be made by anybody by learning but to enter the domain is not as easy as one thinks or imagines.Then what is the alternative?One has to put his foundation strong like nama japa,and other things before embarking on higher courses and never imagine that nama japa alone will lead one to Moksha,a concept which nobody can define except > Realised sages.Other things are only stories good for reading like fairy tales.I > am not for controversy on this as all hv their own views but just touched what I felt.> > Hare Krishna.> > > > > balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote:> HARI AUM>

> Thinking of it, this 'only chanting of names' is ONLY> a way out when one is short of all other avenues to> seek HIM.> > I think as soon as we acquire the habit of chanting> his name, which shall be done 24*7 while engaging in> all other activities of life, one is also supposed to> proceed further into the realm of KNOWLEDGE (Jnana)to> dispel the darknened ignorance and realise the self.> > With just namsankeertan one can build a bed but will> benefit more if the water of knowledge is allowed to> flow thru irrigating the humanity as a whole.> > Welcoming more on this from our members.> > Regards> > Balagopal> > NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA> > --- vinita manikantan <vinitamanikantan> wrote:> > > > > Dear Chandrasekharan Nairji and Jayashreeji> > >

> I wish to add some thing more on your discussion.> > > > we are living in the age of Kali, called Kaliyuga.> > > > In other yugas, the yuga-dharma (process of> > self-realization for the age) is much more> > difficult.> > For example, in the satya-yuga, the yuga-dharma is> > ashtanga-yoga. People would have to live alone in> > the> > forests and engage in severe austerities and> > meditation for thousands of years to come to the> > platform of self-realization. Such a process is> > difficult even in the exalted age of satya-yuga. In> > the kali-yuga the Lord gives us one very special> > benediction. Since we have lost all good qualities,> > and since we have no proper qualification, the Lord> > gives us the simplest and quickest method for> > self-realization - chanting His holy

names.> > > > harer nama harer nama> > harer namaiva kevalam> > kalau nastyeva nastyeva> > nastyeva gatir anyatha> > > > "In the age of Kali there is no other way to attain> > the supreme destination of life except the chanting> > of> > the names of Sri Hari. There is no other way, no> > other> > way, no other way."> > > > i wish to add some thing about Kaliyuga and kaliyuga> > Dharma> > > > Pleas read more> > > > Your Servant> > > > Vinita Manikantan> > > > Of all the yugas the Kali-yuga has been described in> > the shastras as the worst. The Bhagavata Purana> > describes and defines the qualities of Kali-yuga as> > follows:> > > > yada mayanritam tandra> > nidra himsa vishadanam>

> shoka-mohau bhayam dainyam> > sa kalis tamasah smritah> > > > "When there is a predominance of cheating, lying,> > sloth, sleepiness, violence, depression,> > lamentation,> > bewilderment, fear and poverty, that age is Kali,> > the> > age of the mode of ignorance."> > > > Why these qualities develop is further explained:> > > > prayena martya bhagavantam acyutam> > yakshyanti pashanda-vibhinna-cetasah> > > > "In the Kali-yuga the human beings will not offer> > sacrifice to God because their intelligence will be> > diverted by atheism."> > > > dharmam vakshyanty adharma-jna> > adhiruhyottamasanam> > > > "Those who know nothing about religion will mount a> > high seat and presume to speak on religious> > principles."> >

> > vedah pashanda-dushitah> > > > "The Vedas will be contaminated by the speculative> > interpretations of atheists."> > > > Thus with the degradation of religion, and the rise> > of> > atheistic thought, all sacrifice to God will be> > stopped. Human life is unique among all forms of> > life> > in that it alone offers the opportunity for> > spiritual> > advancement. Due to the fully blossomed mental> > faculties, the human is able to inquire into the> > source of everything, the absolute truth. Without> > this> > inquiry, the human being is essentially no better> > than> > a common animal. The scriptures describe such people> > as dvi-pada pashu, or "two legged animals"). Thus> > such> > a society without spiritual endeavour is nothing> >

more> > than an animalistic society of cats and dogs. Among> > the cats and dogs we do not expect there to be peace> > and harmony. Likewise, when human beings live in> > animalistic consciousness, we cannot expect there to> > be any peace in the society - there will be only war> > (kalih). Thus the situation becomes the "age of> > war",> > or kali-yuga.> > > > Some of the other qualities of the age are described> > as follows:> > > > na rakshishyanti manujah> > sthavirau pitarav api> > > > "Men will no longer protect their elderly parents."> > > > durbiksha-kara-karshitah> > > > "The people will become emaciated by famine and> > taxation."> > > > nityam udvigna-manaso> > > > "Their minds will constantly be disturbed

and> > agitated."> > > > rajanash ca praja-bhakshah> > > > "The politicians will virtually eat their citizens."> > > > dasyutkrishta janapada> > > > "The cities will be dominated by theives."> > > > vittam eva kalau nrinam> > janmacara-gunodayah> > dharma-nyay-vyavasthayam> > karanam balam eva hi> > > > "In the Kali-yuga, wealth alone will be considered> > the> > sign of a man's good birth, proper behaviour and> > fine> > qualities. And law and justice will be applied only> > on> > the basis of one's power."> > > > vipratve sutram eva hi> > > > "One will be known as a brahmana simply by wearing a> > thread (not by one's qualities or knowledge)."> > > > tatash canu-dinam

dharmah> > satyam shaucam kshama daya> > kalena balina rajan> > nankshyaty ayur balam smritih> > > > "Truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, mercy,> > duration> > of life, physical strength and memory will all> > diminish day by day because of the powerful> > influence> > of the age of Kali."> > > > The four yugas (satya, treta, dvapara, and kali)> > rotate like seasons. Just as certain seasons have> > particular qualities (summer is hot, winter is> > cold),> > so each cosmic age has particular qualities. In the> > Satya yuga (the age of truth) the entire population> > is> > religious and self-satisfied. Their aim is only self> > realization. All of the godly qualities are present> > in> > the Satya yuga.> > > > Due to the influence of

time, all things degrade and> > decay. Thus as the age passes from Satya-yuga to> > Treta-yuga, the subtle qualities of people degrade,> > and thus there is a loss of truthfullness,> > austerity,> > mercy, etc. As the time passes from one age to the> > next, one quarter of all good qualities and religion> > are lost. Thus as the Treta-yuga begins, only 75% of> > the people are interested in spiritual activities.> > Then as the Dvapara-yuga begins, only 50% of the> > population is interested in God consciousness.> > Finally> > as the Kali-yuga begins, only 25% of the population> > is> > interested in religion, and this number gradually> > reduces to zero, at which time the Lord incarnates> > as> > the Kalki avatara to put an end to the Kali yuga and> > bring about a new cosmic cycle of time

beginning> > again> > with the Satya-yuga.> > > > Just as the good qualities of the people degrade, in> > the same way their life spans also decrease from age> > > === message truncated ===> > > ________> India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new> http://in.answers./> > > > > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > > > > > >

> Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers > > > > > > > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.> How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

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The upanishad says 'Yamaivesha vrnthe then alabhyathe.' The realisation is given to one whom the Lord chooses.Whom will He choose? The answer is given in the Gita in the 12th chapter. ‘Ye thu sarvaani karmmaani mayi sanntasya mathparaah, ananyenaiva yogena maam dhyaayantha upaasathe, theshaam aham samuddhartha mrthyusamsaara saagaraath,’ He says, ‘I become the redeemer of those, who offer all their actions to me,

always think of Me with undivided attention on Me as their goal, and rescue them from the ocean of samsara, the cycle of iransmigration.’ He becomes the boat to cross the sea of samsara to those who surrender to Him all their thoughts words and deeds with the attitude ‘kaayena vaachaa manasendhriyairva budhdhyaathmanaa vaa prakrthersvabhaavaath karomi yatyat sakalm parasmai Narayanaayethi samarpayaami.’ This is the meaning of mayyaavesitha chethasaam. But this is easier said than done as Krishna Himself accepted earlier, the mind is most fickle and impossible to control,’mano dhurnigraham chalam.’ So what is the alternative? Krishna says, ‘Do not despair, if you are not able to practice

control of the mind, do all your actions for My sake, . matkarmaparamobhava, devote yourself to do My work.’ Renounce the agency of action to Him, casting of the attitude of ‘ I ‘ and ‘ ‘ ‘Mine.’ There is a beautiful sloka in Kulasekhara’s Mukundamala, garland for Mukunda. Jihve kirthayakesavam muraripum chetho baja sridharam paanidvandva tham

archaya achyuthakathaah srothra dvaya tvam srnu, krishnam lokaya lochanadvaya hareh gachchaanghriyugmaalayam jighra graana mukundapaada tulasim murdhan nama adhkshajam. Oh my tongue, sing the glory of Kesava ,the destroyer of the demon Mura, oh mind think about Sridhara, my two hands, worship Him, my two ears hear the stories of Achyutha, my two eyes, see Krishna, my two feet go to the temple of

Hari ,oh nose smell the tulasi offered to His feet and oh head, bow down to Him If one can train his faculties this way it becomes easy to think of the Lord all the time. But caught in the samsara is this possible? What about catering to the needs of oneself and one’s family. If a man in his prime of life spends all his time in this manner who will feed him and his family? It may be alright for one who has finished his duties and leads a retired life. This may be the thought that comes uppermost in our minds. Even for those like us Krishna

provides a solution. Atha ethadhapyasakthosi karthum madyogamaasrithah sarvakarmaphalathyaagam thathah kuru yathaathmavaan. Whatever one does it should be done as an offering to God and the result of the action should be renounced. This is possible only for a yathaathmavan, one who is endowed with self control. That is, one who has given

up all idea of ‘I ‘ and ‘mine. What Krishna means here is that whatever you do according to your position on life, should be done as offering to God, ‘sarvam narayanaayethi samarpayaami.’ The same attitude was stressed in the chapter of Karmayoga but hereit is not mere Karmayoga but Karmayoga coupled with bhakthi which becomes easier. The question that arises in the mind is that whether the renunciation of the fruit of action is so easy or so commendable than dhyana, abhayasa and jnana. It is definitely not that easy. But it is praised

because even an ignorant man, provided he has faith and devotion, can be induced to give up the fruit of action as it is ingrained in the human mind that result of action is not entirely in his control, that is, there is a many a slip between the cup and the lip. So by giving up the fruit of action he places his trust in God and slowly gives up his desires thinking that God knows best what is good for him and will give it unasked. This leads him to think about God more and more and realizes that whatever he does belongs to God. Then he tries to concentrate on God more and more and this practice induces him to acquire knowledge and discrimination. So the

renunciation of the fruit of action finally culminates in peace that is born out of jnana. Once the jnana has risen there is absolutely no difference between the saguna and nirguna upasanas. Even a devotee who starts worshipping God with form comes to realize that God is all pervading and not limited to a particular form and the form is only for convenience of concentration. So the description of a jnani that follows is applicable to both bhakthiyoga and jjnanayoga and is similar to what has been outlined in the second chapter regarding the man of realization. ‘Adveshtaa sarvabhoothaanaam maithrahkaruna eva cha, nirmamo nirahankarah samaduhkasukhakshami, ‘ He has no hatred towards any living being, and friendly and kind to all. He is without the ego and possessiveness. He is patient and equanimous in sukha and duhkha.(Vide: Duhkheshvanudvignamanaah sukeshu vigatha sprhah veetaragabhayakrodhah sthithadheermnuiruchyathe – Ch.2-56.) He craves not, anapekshah, is pure, suchih, very adept in his actions at the same time not

affected, udaaseenah , not worried, gathavyathah and given up all desire motivated actions, sarvaarambhaparithyaagi. He is not elated, has no hatred, not aggrieved and has no desire, yo na hrshyathi na dveshti na sochathi na kaankshathi. He has given up both good and evil, subhaasubhaparithyaagi, because all his actions are done as worship and he has renounced the fruit of action. Since he is detached he is the same towards friend and foe,. honour and dishonour, cold and warmth sukha and duhka. Therefore he treats .both contempt and praise alike. He is silent and contented with whatever that accrues. He has no fixed abode. For him vasudhaiva kutumbhakam. and he is sthiramatih, in other words sthithaprajnah. ‘Such a devotee,’ says Krishna,’ is dear to Me.’ Krishna concludes by saying that all those who are endowed with aforementioned qualities and have faith and are engrossed in Him are exceedingly dear to Him. ‘Santhushtassathatham yogi yathaathmaa dhrdanischayah maayyarpitha mano buddhih yo me bhakthassame priyah’ He is always contented. Because he has selfcontrol and of steadfast resolve(sthithaprajna.) Why he is so, is indicated by the word mayyarpitha manobuddhih. ‘ His mind and intellect is absorbed in Me,’ says

Krishna, and adds that such a devotee is dear to Me. I have written this becauseI thought that a definite answer without ambiguity is what needed in this context. My answer to Syamala question 'Is nama sankirthana is enough or anything else to be done,' is that do not worry whether what youa re doing is enough or right but go on doing it with full faith. One can attain salvation even by reciting multiplication tables if done with full faith and with the firm resolve that it is going to take you to God ,done as an offering to God. After all Valmiki became a saint by uttering 'mara mara,' without realising what it is he was saying.. Ramakrishna told a man to go on meditating on his beloved goat and eventually he was ablr eto have the darsan of the Lord inside the form of the goat.So if

you have faith in namasankirthana carry on, and it will eventually lead you to God as He says 'theshaam sathathayukthaanaam bhajathaam preethipoorvakam dhddhaami buddhiyogam thamyena maam upayaanthi the.'- "to them who are uninterruptedly united with Me and who lovingly adore Me I grant that inteelectual union by which they come to Me." The impotrtant point here is 'bhajathaam preethipoorvakam.' The love towards the Lord as one closest and dearest to you. Then your mind will never be riddled with doubt as to what should be done and what not.You will feel that you belong to Him and it is His responsibility to take care of you and guide you.Believe me, He will as He assures in the sloka ' anayaaschinthayantho maam ' and Kountheya prathjaaneehi na me bhakthah pranasyathi.' Saroja Ramanuajm May god bless you, Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit.

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HARI AUM

 

Shree Ganapthy Raman's posting calls for really good

application of our minds.

 

I would like to record my APPRECIATION to his SINCERE

DEDICATED EFFORTS.

 

Hope others (there are good enough members) will also

repeat the same efforts and make this a very

illuminating forum.

 

Regards

 

Balagopal

 

NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA

 

 

 

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Dear Veenaji Thank you for this information. I have got this as well as the earlier messages of Shri Ganapathyji saved in a seperate folder as I can go thorugh the same whenever I am free. To be frank, nothing goes into my head by reading these informative messages once or twice Thank you once again and as mentioned await much more informations from members like you Sincerely Syamala"Veena A. Nair" <veeus18 wrote: Hari Om. I give below some verses from Swami Chinmayananda’s “Talks on Shankara’s Vivekachudamani” regarding the steps towards liberation from the cycle of births and deaths. Verse 69: For liberation, first comes extreme detachment from finite objects of sensual satisfaction. Then follow calmness, self-control, forbearance, and complete renunciation of all selfish actions. Swamiji has hailed the Vivekachudamani as a practical guide to a seeker of liberation. Any true seeker will be impatient not only to understand the nature of liberation but also to get a detailed discussion of the

conditions under which one can achieve it. Chief among the conditions are: The capacity to be completely detached from the craving for things known to be finite and perishable. A discriminative intellect (viveka) can grow only when there is full detachment (vairagya). Without developing disinterest in acquiring and enjoying material pleasures we cannot enter the gates of true Wisdom. Only when we recognize the finite, impermanent or transient nature of things, will we invest our energies in uplifting ourselves from the present stage to spiritual freedom. In Verse 76, Shankara has given five examples of attachment to the senses: The deer is always fascinated by melodious sounds and the deer hunter sings to charm the deer. Attracted by the sound, the deer moves towards it and becomes a target of the

hunter’s arrow. Elephants, especially in the mating season, become extremely attached to the sense of touch, rubbing against each other and walking without paying attention, and fall into the pits that have been dug to trap them. The moth is enchanted by form and attracted by the brilliance of the flame. It flutters towards it with an agonizing impatience and gets burnt. The fish, hungry at all times, in its greed, swallows the bait and is trapped in the net and ends in the stomach of fish-eaters. The poor honey bee, attracted by the fragrance of flowers, collects honey from the flowers and hoards it in a hive until Man sets fire to the hive to get that honey. Shankara says “then what is to become of Man, who is attached to all the

five senses?” He says that even the poison of a cobra is less dangerous because one gets affected only when one gets bitten; but the five senses are more dangerous because even one look towards the object of desire can be dangerous (examples can be seen even in the Ramayana especially of the rakshasa Maricha in the disguise of a deer drawing Rama away from Sita). Verse 70. Thereafter comes “hearing”, then reflection on what has been heard and lastly long and constant continuous meditation on the Truth for the Muni (wise Teacher). Ultimately that learned one attains the Nirvikalpa state and realizes the bliss of Nirvana in this very life. An individual who has cultivated calmness, self-control, forbearance, and complete renunciation of all selfish actions is fit for “hearing” the scriptures.

It is important that one listen to the explanation of at least one scriptural text from a true Teacher. Listening (sravana) to the discourses is to be followed by inner arguments and final assimilation by the intellect in a process called reflection (manana); only then the ideas in the text can become inculcated in the student’s own life. Listening and reflection is to be followed by dhyana which is the disciplining of one’s thoughts. When one has practiced dhyana for many many years, daily (nityam) and constantly (nirantaram) then one gets established in God consciousness. Verse 82 If you have any craving for liberation, avoid sense objects from a distance just as you avoid things known to be poisonous. And with respectful devotion, daily cultivate the nectarine virtues—contentment, forgiveness, straightforwardness, calmness, and

self-control. Although concepts such as self-control, detachment, discrimination etc. seem way beyond our simple understanding, Sankara also offers us encouragement. As early as in Verse 3, he says”manushyatwam, mumukshatwam, mahaapurusha sanshraya”. Sankara says that to be born as a human being (manushyatwam) is a sign of God’s grace. Then “mumukshatwam” which is a burning desire to achieve liberation and finally “mahaa-purusha samshraya” a desire to achieve the company of holy people culminating in a Guru to direct one’s path—all these are signs of God’s grace. One who has been born as a human being and is aware of what is laid down in the scriptures, if such a person does not have the enthusiasm to strive for liberation, such a person is called a “mudha-dhihi” a dull fool by Shankara. This happens when one is blinded by objects and busies oneself in running after things to satisfy the

body and mind. --------------- Thanks for your mail Sunita. I have had this book for a while after another friend reccommended it as a must for someone interested in spirituality. But with everything else going on, it was confined to the shelf, until your mail came along and I was encouraged to pick it up. I hope Shri Ramanji will contribute some of his thoughts too and so will the other members.Om Namo Narayanaya.rsunitaa <rsunitaa > wrote: Om Namo Narayanaya!Shri Ganapathy Ramanji, Please can you kindly guide us as to what we can do in addition to Nama Samkirtanam for GOD realisation. --- In

guruvayur , Syamala Nair <syamalaraghunath wrote:>> Dear Shri Ganapathy Ramanji> > Thank you for the mail.> > First of all let me with all frankess inform you that I did not feel anything bad about your statement. Infact I am happy that I have been corrected where I am wrong . You have correctly said, I did not understand the subject properly. I focused my attention only on the benefits of nama japam and was all the more eager to share my experience with the group . I just overlooked the fact about God realisation for which one has to take mantra from a "Guru" and is a thorny path and is not that easy. > > Thank you for drawing my attention to this and I accept your comments/clarification in very good spirit and value your comments.> > Await much more such information from members

like you> > Sincerely> Syamala> > > > > > > > GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:> Dear Syamala,> > It is really appreciable that your faith and bhakthy helped you in getting your illness cured.However I am afraid that you hv not properly studied the subject> which I wrote.As you,yourself have said that I hv stressed nama japa as the > foundation for spiritual advancement.I dealt a subject abt God Realization and not the merits of nama japa and hence I emphasised that nama japa alone won't> take one in the higher dimensions of spiritualism.I think there is some confusion > in your reading what I hv written.As we don't hv much idea abt the earlier yugas except from puranas it is my view that blaming Kali yuga alone is not a correct > approach.Even during the earlier yugas there were

weapons of mass destruction like so many astras and many were adept in using the same.So too there were many medicines though not in the form of tablets but from nature given plants for > getting illness cured which they adopted.As we hv wars and other things in earlier yugas all those things were there and jealousy, interest in expanding empire were there even in those times.Sure in those times they had plenty of time for doing yagas and other things but that did not prevent the evil forces from > disturbing them also.So what we hv now is that all those things are in a new shape.That is all.Even with plenty of time available they could not develop much the countries but spent the time in scheming and other things and we hv no idea abt the common people except the rulers and their machinations.Now those things are there for our own vision.While in those times many things were done thru mantras now all

are done by scientific development.So the status quo > is always there and only the methods hv changed.> Anyways your mail is commendable for your experiences.Regarding tulsi leaves> even now in almost all vishnu temples they give the same as theertham as tulsi leaves hv got great effect in relieving many illness and that is why we worship tulsi more than other plants.So there is no point in blaming kali yuga for all the ills as the same were common in the earlier yugas also.As we depend for those things some puranas we take the same as granted.Lord Krishna who in His time was considered as a super magician is now regarded as God.So too as time goes by what people we say magicians may become God.It is only Time that decides everything.I appreciate your reply and if you could understand what I hv written then perhaps you may agree to some extent.That is your privilege and I hv nothing to say and this

I hv written not as a rebuttal of your belief but only as a clarificatory statement.Hope you will take this in good spirits.Such comments will only enhance the maturity of the Group I believe, and in this you hv done a good job.God Bless.> > Hare Krishna,> > agraman.> > > > > Syamala Nair <syamalaraghunath wrote:> Dear Shri Ganapathy Ramanjai> > My knowledge in this is very much limited. I also agree with Shri Ganapathy Ramanji that only nama japam is not sufficient but ofcourse nama japam is a must. In the Bhagavatham, Bhagawan mentioned how he can be worshiped at the four yugas. For Kaliyuga, it is mentioned Nama Sankeertanam. According to me during Satyuga, Tretayuga and Dwapara Yuga, people had time to do the tapa, dhyanam, yangam etc., as there were nothing much to distract their attention. However, in Kaliyuga, God knew ,

people willl never be able to do all the above as circumstances will be such and at times will even forget that one super power is there. May be because of that it is said nama sankeertanam will give the same benefit of other yangas done in other yugas. Nama japam can be done anywhere and everywhere. Thus mankind will take HIS name atleast once in a while in the busy schedule of life and he can guide such people in the right direction. > > However, my firm belief is that nama japam can do miracles in curing diseases. Sincere prayer always have more value than medicine. We all know how Shri Melpathurji got cured of his vata rogam. > > Last year, I had boils all over my body. I took medicine, but there was no improvement. Finallly I decided to do archana for Guruvayoorappan with tulsi leaves every day chanting some slokas and also reciting "roga hara Shri Guruvayoor stotram" ( from Agre

Pashyami - a publication of Giri Trading). Also I started keeping water in kindi and after archana pick up some tulsi leaves and put in the water. Next day morning I drink that water and also take the smell of the tulsi leaves lying at HIS feet. This I did after saying" This is my sidhaushadam and I have no other solace except HIM" . No one will believe. It worked. Now I am free from this, but even today I continue doing the archana and drinking the teertham with all humility.> > A humble devotee> Syamala> > > > > > > > > GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:> I agree with you Balagopal.There is a general trend that whatever happens that are bad it is becozof Kali Yuga as if nothing had happened in the earlier yugas.But even from Puranas which form the foundation of the happenings of the > earlier yugas there were all

sorts of evil things like war,jealousy,lust,anger,> mutual distrust,scheming etc and why shuld we blame Kali Yuga only,I am still > unable to fathom.It is also true that the learned people had said that Nama sankeertan is sufficient in Kali Yuga.How can they know that?Is it possible to > spend the full day doing Nama sankeertan.That is way away from tangent of > pragmatism.In fact in Kali Yuga more things are done good also due to the > development of all fields and prosperity of mankind in general.Poverty,illiteracy and all such things are not the property of Kali Yuga only and the same were there even earlier yugas.So blaming everything ill as due to Kali yuga carries no > weight.We hv been trained from our childhood in such a way without allowing > independent thinking and just repeating the old puranas of the earlier yugas when milk and honey were supposed to flow

contrary to facts.So instead of blaming this yuga for anything and everything man must strive to develop him > first and not to buckle under the theory of all ills are due to Kali Yuga.> > Of course nama smaran is only one of the ways for development of bhakthy and that alone won't lead to the finall consummation as ignorantly thought as the > process in this are not properly understood and can't be understood from our > present state of evolutionary aspects and hence it is advised by the great people just say nama for all the ills as one teaches a child in the KG class.But when the child grows and reaches post graduation level still lingering on the subject of > KG class,will not that look funny?The foundation is built in KG class and it is for the child to develop its knowledge by studying various other subjects and then only progress comes even in material world and then there is

no necessity to talk abt the spiritual world which is not for all to access and only highy qualified > souls can reach that and just by thinking by doing simply nama smarana all can be achieved in spirtual world shows only some misguided perceptions.Then why the great people said that?It is only to develop the individual soul to develop by starting somewhere as advanced teachings can't be understood and so just for beginners the same were taught.So by saying nama smarana alone nobody is going to get any God realisation.To counter this some people like Thyagaraya and others can be quoted.But they left eveything and spent the full time doing nama japa.Can anybody do the same now in the present day world without thinking abt other commitments?So too much need not be studied abt nama japa alone as a panacea for all illness.Nama japa is only one of the ways of developing bhakthy but that alone won't make

reach Godhood as one thinks.It is always heartening to think abt Realisation but what is that nobody can answer as the path is very arduous and just by reading some texts> nothing can be proceeded with uness more practical,experiences are there which alone can make one understand the subjects and that requires so many things which had been repeated by me umpteen times and hence no more repetition is required.> This does not confer as if a I am a great soul and on the verge of Realisation which may take several births but I say this with my acquaintances with some Realised souls and after hearing their experiences which unfortunately I hv not been able to enjoy so far though occasionally some glimpses can be seen.That is all.Hence my conclusion that spiritualism is a thorny way and one can succeed only thru the Grace of Guru and vigorous practices.As I always say this is only my views and there may be better

souls who hv greater experiences and > knowledge and sometimes they may be right in their own ways.So my belief > that bookish knowledge and writings can be made by anybody by learning but to enter the domain is not as easy as one thinks or imagines.Then what is the alternative?One has to put his foundation strong like nama japa,and other things before embarking on higher courses and never imagine that nama japa alone will lead one to Moksha,a concept which nobody can define except > Realised sages.Other things are only stories good for reading like fairy tales.I > am not for controversy on this as all hv their own views but just touched what I felt.> > Hare Krishna.> > > > > balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote:> HARI AUM> > Thinking of it, this 'only chanting of names' is ONLY> a way out when one is short of

all other avenues to> seek HIM.> > I think as soon as we acquire the habit of chanting> his name, which shall be done 24*7 while engaging in> all other activities of life, one is also supposed to> proceed further into the realm of KNOWLEDGE (Jnana)to> dispel the darknened ignorance and realise the self.> > With just namsankeertan one can build a bed but will> benefit more if the water of knowledge is allowed to> flow thru irrigating the humanity as a whole.> > Welcoming more on this from our members.> > Regards> > Balagopal> > NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA> > --- vinita manikantan <vinitamanikantan> wrote:> > > > > Dear Chandrasekharan Nairji and Jayashreeji> > > > I wish to add some thing more on your discussion.> > > > we are living in the

age of Kali, called Kaliyuga.> > > > In other yugas, the yuga-dharma (process of> > self-realization for the age) is much more> > difficult.> > For example, in the satya-yuga, the yuga-dharma is> > ashtanga-yoga. People would have to live alone in> > the> > forests and engage in severe austerities and> > meditation for thousands of years to come to the> > platform of self-realization. Such a process is> > difficult even in the exalted age of satya-yuga. In> > the kali-yuga the Lord gives us one very special> > benediction. Since we have lost all good qualities,> > and since we have no proper qualification, the Lord> > gives us the simplest and quickest method for> > self-realization - chanting His holy names.> > > > harer nama harer nama> > harer namaiva kevalam> > kalau

nastyeva nastyeva> > nastyeva gatir anyatha> > > > "In the age of Kali there is no other way to attain> > the supreme destination of life except the chanting> > of> > the names of Sri Hari. There is no other way, no> > other> > way, no other way."> > > > i wish to add some thing about Kaliyuga and kaliyuga> > Dharma> > > > Pleas read more> > > > Your Servant> > > > Vinita Manikantan> > > > Of all the yugas the Kali-yuga has been described in> > the shastras as the worst. The Bhagavata Purana> > describes and defines the qualities of Kali-yuga as> > follows:> > > > yada mayanritam tandra> > nidra himsa vishadanam> > shoka-mohau bhayam dainyam> > sa kalis tamasah smritah> > > > "When there

is a predominance of cheating, lying,> > sloth, sleepiness, violence, depression,> > lamentation,> > bewilderment, fear and poverty, that age is Kali,> > the> > age of the mode of ignorance."> > > > Why these qualities develop is further explained:> > > > prayena martya bhagavantam acyutam> > yakshyanti pashanda-vibhinna-cetasah> > > > "In the Kali-yuga the human beings will not offer> > sacrifice to God because their intelligence will be> > diverted by atheism."> > > > dharmam vakshyanty adharma-jna> > adhiruhyottamasanam> > > > "Those who know nothing about religion will mount a> > high seat and presume to speak on religious> > principles."> > > > vedah pashanda-dushitah> > > > "The Vedas will be contaminated by the

speculative> > interpretations of atheists."> > > > Thus with the degradation of religion, and the rise> > of> > atheistic thought, all sacrifice to God will be> > stopped. Human life is unique among all forms of> > life> > in that it alone offers the opportunity for> > spiritual> > advancement. Due to the fully blossomed mental> > faculties, the human is able to inquire into the> > source of everything, the absolute truth. Without> > this> > inquiry, the human being is essentially no better> > than> > a common animal. The scriptures describe such people> > as dvi-pada pashu, or "two legged animals"). Thus> > such> > a society without spiritual endeavour is nothing> > more> > than an animalistic society of cats and dogs. Among> > the cats and dogs we do not

expect there to be peace> > and harmony. Likewise, when human beings live in> > animalistic consciousness, we cannot expect there to> > be any peace in the society - there will be only war> > (kalih). Thus the situation becomes the "age of> > war",> > or kali-yuga.> > > > Some of the other qualities of the age are described> > as follows:> > > > na rakshishyanti manujah> > sthavirau pitarav api> > > > "Men will no longer protect their elderly parents."> > > > durbiksha-kara-karshitah> > > > "The people will become emaciated by famine and> > taxation."> > > > nityam udvigna-manaso> > > > "Their minds will constantly be disturbed and> > agitated."> > > > rajanash ca praja-bhakshah> > > > "The

politicians will virtually eat their citizens."> > > > dasyutkrishta janapada> > > > "The cities will be dominated by theives."> > > > vittam eva kalau nrinam> > janmacara-gunodayah> > dharma-nyay-vyavasthayam> > karanam balam eva hi> > > > "In the Kali-yuga, wealth alone will be considered> > the> > sign of a man's good birth, proper behaviour and> > fine> > qualities. And law and justice will be applied only> > on> > the basis of one's power."> > > > vipratve sutram eva hi> > > > "One will be known as a brahmana simply by wearing a> > thread (not by one's qualities or knowledge)."> > > > tatash canu-dinam dharmah> > satyam shaucam kshama daya> > kalena balina rajan> > nankshyaty ayur balam

smritih> > > > "Truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, mercy,> > duration> > of life, physical strength and memory will all> > diminish day by day because of the powerful> > influence> > of the age of Kali."> > > > The four yugas (satya, treta, dvapara, and kali)> > rotate like seasons. Just as certain seasons have> > particular qualities (summer is hot, winter is> > cold),> > so each cosmic age has particular qualities. In the> > Satya yuga (the age of truth) the entire population> > is> > religious and self-satisfied. Their aim is only self> > realization. All of the godly qualities are present> > in> > the Satya yuga.> > > > Due to the influence of time, all things degrade and> > decay. Thus as the age passes from Satya-yuga to> > Treta-yuga,

the subtle qualities of people degrade,> > and thus there is a loss of truthfullness,> > austerity,> > mercy, etc. As the time passes from one age to the> > next, one quarter of all good qualities and religion> > are lost. Thus as the Treta-yuga begins, only 75% of> > the people are interested in spiritual activities.> > Then as the Dvapara-yuga begins, only 50% of the> > population is interested in God consciousness.> > Finally> > as the Kali-yuga begins, only 25% of the population> > is> > interested in religion, and this number gradually> > reduces to zero, at which time the Lord incarnates> > as> > the Kalki avatara to put an end to the Kali yuga and> > bring about a new cosmic cycle of time beginning> > again> > with the Satya-yuga.> > > > Just as the good qualities of

the people degrade, in> > the same way their life spans also decrease from age> > > === message truncated ===> > > ________> India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new> http://in.answers./> > > > > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers > > > > > > > Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > > > > > > > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers

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Dear all,

 

Radhe Krishna!

Having read the whole write ups about Nama-japams and the excellent

exposition of the Dhyana-yoga by Shri. Ganapathy Raman, I thought of

adding a few words to supplement whatever has already been written.

Let me confess that my knowledge too is only the little bit I have

acquired from the Narayaneeyam and Bhagavatam and Bhagavadgita which I

have been reading, and I too do not claim to be an authority on the

subject I do not quote chapter and verse from any of these, as my

memory is poor and I will have to sit for hours referring to the

various books, if I have to do that. So I write only what I have

understood over the years.

 

It is said in all the three above mentioned works, that whatever is

achieved in Kritha-yuga by performing Tapas, in Treta-yuga by

performing sacrifices and in Dwapara-yuga by Poojas and thanthra mode

of worship, exactly the same can be achieved by chanting the Lord's

names in Kali-yuga. Hence, in Kali-yuga, Nama-sankeerthanam is,

according to Bhagavatam, is as good as anything else.

 

Bhattatiri is very clear about his recommendation to follow the

Bhakti-yoga.

One, overwhelmed by singing His hymns and hearing

His stories, is driven to ecstasy by devotion and sheds tears of joy

drenching

oneself, etc. This enjoyment in

communion with the Lord is possible within the span of one’s lifetime,

only if

the person follows the path of devotion or “Bhakti-yoga”,

which is far superior to the other two paths, namely, Karma-yoga

and Jnana-yoga. The

superiority of Bhakti-yoga over the other two yogas or

paths has been widely elucidated

by great sages like Veda Vyasa and Narada in our scriptures ever so

many

times. These sages have tried out all

these three different methods and have attained the coveted siddhis

or accomplishments, and hence,

their words are totally acceptable.

Prahlada, Dhruva, Draupadi and many others, why, even Gajendra

who was

in animal form, attained salvation through the path of devotion. This only shows that what

is true of human

beings is equally applicable to other living beings also and no extra

effort is

required to be undertaken by anyone, irrespective of caste, creed,

religion, or

even birth. The

realisation that the Lord is the embodiment of the most supreme and

unique

charm, beauty and love (of all the three worlds put together) itself

would be

sufficient to rouse the sentiment of devotion in any human being.

 

Bhakti is self-generating.

It is but natural that one develops love

towards a thing of eternal beauty. Once

this happens, the mind gets withdrawn from all other objects, and gets

concentrated on this particular one.

Hence the degree of love keeps on increasing and the very

thought of it

gives immense joy. This love manifests

itself in different forms, love towards child (vatsalyam),

between husband and wife (anuragam), love in general

towards other objects (sneham) and towards God, one’s

preceptor

and parents (Bhakti).

“Karma-yoga,

the path of duty is difficult to practise and takes a

long time to give results. The path of duty or action involves

performance of

one’s prescribed duties (termed as Swa-dharmas)

or even other actions, without attachment and not being prompted by

desires. A Karma-yogi should

never think in terms of the benefits of the

results of his actions. Jnana-yoga,

the path of knowledge, is

equally, or even more, difficult to practise.

Bhakti-yoga, the path of devotion, is

the simplest and the easiest to

practise, even for a layman.”

 

"Prayojanam

anuddisya mandopi na pravarthathe.""(Even

the dull-witted will not get into action without ascertaining the

results.) Hence, all actions of people

are generally result-oriented. Even if

such actions can take them to heaven, a day will come when they exhaust

all

their merits and come back to the world of mortals. Hence it is evident that desire-motivated actions

are related to

attachment. Only one in a

million may be able to do his duty without expecting rewards ie., with Nishkama

Buddhi (with a mind free from desires).

Even then, it may only purify and prepare the mind for acquiring

Self-knowledge and that too may take many birth-death cycles.

 

 

 

In short, one

will find

that Karma-yoga is extremely

difficult to practise and is time-consuming.

Comparatively, Jnana-yoga, the

path of knowledge is still more difficult to practise.

For reaching the level of self-realisation

required to attain Moksha or

salvation, one has to purify the mind by doing his duties without being

haunted

by desires, become totally detached from all worldly objects and

mundane

pleasures, control the sense-organs and the mind by the eight-fold sadhanas (accomplishments), take

guidance from a knowledgeable preceptor, become proficient in Vedas and

Upanishads and perfectly understand them, be able to concentrate and

meditate

on the unmanifested form of Brahman, and practise this for unlimited

time

.. Then, he becomes aware of what

Brahman is, merges with it and attains salvation. Needless

to say, this method is practically impossible to follow

in view of the problems and hurdles one will have to encounter.

 

But Bhakti-yoga,

is

easy to practise and is sure of giving results. Devotion,

that is nothing but intense love towards God

(Prematmaka-bhakti), has no reservations.

It can be practised by one and all, with a deep sense of

enjoyment. It gives eternal happiness at every

stage,

removes even the last traces of ego and makes one identify oneself with

the

Lord, which is the same as

Self-realisation.

The Karma-yogis

go through all sorts of painful exercises like

observance of numerous exacting

rituals, visiting far-off places of worship incurring huge expenditure

beyond

one’s own means, and submitting all their actions to God.

By doing all this, they achieve only purity

of mind. That means getting rid of the

base emotions of Kama (lust), Krodha

(anger), Lobha (greed), Moha

(desire), Mada (pride) and Matsarya

(jealousy). They stay unaffected by the pairs

of

opposites and get themselves totally detached from worldly pleasures.

Thus, achieving

purity of mind, the Karma-yogis

become eligible only to pursue the next step of Yoga, that is, Jnana-yoga, the path of knowledge or Bhakti-yoga,

the path of devotion, and

not become directly eligible for attaining salvation. A dirty cloth cannot retain dye unless it is

initially prepared by

cleaning and removing all dirt. Likewise, only those who have

achieved

purity of mind and attained the peak of detachment by practice of Karma-yoga can aspire for Jnana-yoga. Self-knowledge can dawn

only in a pure mind. Those who have developed

aversion for

the short-lived worldly pleasures, but are yet to reach the peak of

detachment,

can aspire only for Bhakti-yoga.

 

 

As aforesaid, Bhakti-yoga is the only means of

emancipation for those who have not attained complete detachment, and

for those

who still retain some attachment for worldly pleasures.

That being so, what good does Karma-yoga do to

us, who are established

in Bhakti-yoga, except cleansing the

mind? Whether the mind gets cleansed by

practice of Karma-yoga or not, one

can still enter the path of devotion. Intense

devotion itself has adequate cleansing effect which then directly paves

the way

to Moksha or emancipation.”

 

 

“ Purushah

sa parah Partha, labhyah thu ananyaya.":Bg 8/22.(The Supreme

Spirit, O Arjuna, can

be won by unswerving devotion). Hence

should we not realise the importance of utilising this birth itself

without

losing time to attain this Supreme goal through Bhakti-yoga

leaving all other paths? ”

A

question raised is, why one is particular about Bhakti-yoga

alone, and not Jnana-yoga? One

should not forget that there are people

who, without practising Karma-yoga

and cleansing their mind, profess to be totally detached, although

internally

they are not so, and try to master all the scriptures, undertaking

extreme

steps. Such people, who are not really

prepared mentally to attain realisation of the Self have to continue in

many

more birth-death cycles and somehow manage to reach the goal. "Bahoonam

janmanam anthe Jnanavan mam prapadyathe," : Bg.7/19. (At the

end of many births, the

man of knowledge reaches me realising that Vaasudeva is all, but such a

magnanimous soul is extremely rare).

Hence it is beyond all doubts that Bhakti-yoga

is the easiest to practise and the quickest to yield results.

whatever

problems are encountered in Karma-yoga

and Jnana-yoga are totally absent in Bhakti-yoga.

The three epithets

qualifying Bhakti-yoga given in this

sloka tell how Bhakti-yoga is

superior to the other two Yogas.

 

Constant

listening to the

glorious stories of the Lord overflowing with the sentiment of love

increases

faith in these stories and a deep desire develops by itself to immerse

oneself

in the nectar of divine joy by listening to them again and again. It is totally independent of Karma-yoga

and Jnana-yoga. The glory of

these stories is such that one never gets tired of hearing them, nor

gets

satiated in spite of repeated experiences.

On the contrary, the more one listens to them, the more is the

eagerness

to listen further. Because of these,

the thirst for worldly pleasures gets

destroyed and the mind gets automatically purified. Consequently, real

and sincere devotion develops and grows without any external assistance.

 

But it is said

that

God-realisation can take place only when the mind is cleansed of all

ignorance. One need not have any doubt

that only spiritual knowledge can dispel the darkness of ignorance. That being the case, what does one gain by

developing sincere devotion? The answer

lies in the fact that devotion to the Lord is so powerful that it can

destroy

the ego, the sense of egotism as in “I

did” “I gave” etc., and the pride

in the sense of ownership as in “my house”,

“my son” etc. The love-hate

emotions which are generated

by such senses do not arise and they gradually disappear.

Once this happens, self-knowledge begins to

shine without any difficulty, and ignorance, its bitter enemy, gets

destroyed. Thus devotion to the Lord

leads one step by step to the realisation of Brahman.

 

It was said

earlier that

the love-hate emotions arise out of the illusory sense of “I”

and “mine”. These emotions are

impure and pollute the

mind. If these are to be removed, then

the senses of “I” and “mine”

attached to one’s own body and the sense of ownership towards wife,

children,

family etc., will have to be totally eradicated so that the mind can

become

pure. It is to achieve this purity of

mind that it was earlier said that one should practise Karma-yoga

prior to Jnana-yoga. But, for

one who follows Bhakti-yoga or the path of devotion,

there is no need to go through Karma-yoga

at all as, while he keeps constantly listening to the captivating

romantic

sports of the Lord, replete with the nine-fold [1]sentiments,

the mind gets withdrawn from all other objects and gets focussed on the

Lord. When the mind is submerged in

the sweet nectar of divine love, and is

overcome with ecstasy, there is no room for egoistic thoughts to creep

in. So,

such pollutants get eradicated once and for all and the self-effulgent

self-knowledge manifests itself.

Here it is devotion to God that is responsible for bringing

about the

enjoyment of that Supreme bliss, and the self-knowledge serves only as

a door

to let that in. Thus unswerving and

undivided devotion to the Lord generates purity of mind, bestows

self-knowledge

and ultimately confers the final beatitude.

And all these are made possible within the short time of one’s

single

life span.”

 

Regards

K.V.G.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1]

The nine sentiments are Sringara

(love) , Hasya (humour),

karuna (pathos), Rosha (anger), Veera ú(valour), Bhayanaka

(terror), Bheebhatsa

(disgust), Adbudha (wonder) and Santha (calmness). Sometimes, a tenth one, Vatsalya

(fondness)

is also added.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

GANAPATHY RAMAN wrote:

 

 

First of all I must admit that I don't hv much knowledge abt

Upanishads,

scriptures and such other high phylosphical texts.So what I

usually write is more or less from a pragmatic approach with some

occasional quotes which I glance thru some of the texts and sometimes

the same be against the well

established and accepted theories of Great Teachers.This is not

to dispute their

versions but in my opinion we hv not evolved to such an extent

as to assimilate

their philosophy and may take several births to reach such stage

though I don't

dispute there may be great souls who are completing or close to

completing their vicious cycle.

 

It has always been the inquisitiveness of the human beings from

time immemoril to find out who created all these things and in the

initial evolutionary stage the human beings were even afraid of

everything as super human being.But with the

gradual evolution process and with the development of knowledge

thru experiences the human beings came to the conclusion that there

must be a great Power who has created all these things and tried over

millions of years to find out who can that Being be whether the same is

a man or woman or It.Still the answer could not be found as different

sages in the successive generations

defined various theories according to their experiments in

various ways and wrote various things defining such and such thing

shuld be God or Brahman which the name they gave and the same is being

followed even now.Many sages in various yugas by their deep penance

which they considered as a weapon to find out the Reality got

realisation of the Being according to their own

conceptions and defined the same.However they were more or less

unanimous

that the Power which created everything is ONE only though they

gave different

names accoring to their choice and started writing puranas and

other scriptures

for posterity.

 

In fact God Realisation is such a subject which has not been

explicitly defined by anybody so far as I know and the so called

Realised souls left the same for the human beings to find out on their

own, though in the process they gave some valuable guidances to follow

to pursue to achieve the goal for ardent aspirants.This led many

acharyas in later years to make hymns,mantras,namas and other

things which if followed strictctly with discipline may lead a true

aspirant to realise the Supreme to a great extent.As the process is

arduous and not like purchasing something from super markets and

entirely different from the

material world it is quite impossible for all to achieve the

goal.Knowing this fully well the Realised people prescribed various

methods so as to at least create an

awareness on the aspirant minds to get themselves progress in

this otherwise

difficult path.They also enunciated that God is nothing but the

Realisation of one's Self.If one knows his original source then he or

she has achieved the target.Even sage Ramana says the same thing.But as

this is difficult for

consumption in the present day world many other alternatives are

prescribed to

enable the people to climb in the ladder of spiritualim step by

step thru various practices such as namas,yogas,dhyana,contemplation

etc and at the same time for practicing these things several

disciplines are also prescribed without

which it is impossible to achieve the target.

 

We must also know that the Realised souls are also human beings

and just becoz they hv achieved their target they don't change into any

other forms.But what we can't see in ordinary mortal we can see in them

as they are always in a state of bliss,joy,peace as they are able to

contain their minds and though they might hv acquired several powers

thru their penance they never use the same

unless they hv been commanded by the Supreme as they hv

submitted themselves entirely to the Supreme and become part of the

same and the Supreme Power also won't interfere in any activity and

allow the souls to enjoy or suffer according to their karmas and if at

all one is helped in when in dire staraights it is not becoz of the

Grace though the same will also be there to a certain extent but due to

their karmic deeds only of the earlier births.There are people who used

to say that God is on their part when they succeed in everything and

when they suffer failures and others succeed the same people may

complain that God is not on their part but on the partof the other

persons.This individual jealousy,ego,pride,vanity,self

importance etc shuld go

frm the minds of the aspirants to get the reflection of the

Supreme in their inner mind as all these emanate from their physical

mind.This is possible only thru

leading a life of slowly and steadily leaving everything to the

will of the Supreme

and try to suppress the egocomplex and thinking always that

whatever they hv achieved is due to their good deeds and also due to

the mercy of the Creator.

Inthis way their minds get purified and invite the Great Power

to come inside and reside within themselves.What we see outside in the

form of an idol,object and such things are only temporary as we soon

forget after worshipping them in temples and engage in our worldly

commitments though occasionally the remembrance comes but that won't

take us far.On the other hand if an aspirant

is able to realise the God within his inner mind he is always

attuned to the same

and his progress in reaching the goal will be more quick.For

this only the dhyana and contemplation are recommended.During such

time all the negative thoughts shuld be wiped out from the mind and

earthly thoughts also shuld also

be send out of the mind and the mind shuld be in deep

concentration of God only to the exclusion of everything else.How many

people can strive for this?

Surely anybody can achieve this if he or she possess the

necessary will power

which is the vital factor in this.Come what may,they shuld hv a

dynamic will power and shuld not waver from the goal in their deep

concentration and contemplation and this shuld be done for some long

time though initially one can start with some minutes as the mind is

the greatest factor which never allows one to concentrate on a

particular thing for long but by practice and experience the same can

be contained and if the process is contiued for several years,onemay be

able to see the light passing into their soul and can get the vision

inside one's inner mind and can even talk with the Deity form he or she

has adopted and

continuing this for more years the Deity will get submerged in

the individual soul and the same will unite with the Universal

mind.Soul and atman is the same thing but so far I hv no idea of what

exactly we refer by this.

 

To be precise this is the correct procedure and only thru this

one can achievethe

goal and during the process a vital power which is lying dormant

will rise and move upwards and the individual aspirant gets

automatically detached from all worldly activities as the new

experiment gives him or her great peace and joy and bliss and will

cover all the worlds that are in the cosmos and find the same

in their individualsoul which has already become universal

soul.What is in macrocasm it is in micocasm is the law.Then when the

atman becomes one with the Paramatman the individual he or she enjoys

only joy and peace ane never bothers abt the going on in this world as

they consider the same as only

maya which will automatically vanish as they hv reached the

Super conscious

stage and this is what Sri Krishna gave in His teachings to

arjuna.

 

Now coming to Viveka Chudamani the same is not written by

Sankara for lesser souls but for tose who hv achieved some great

heights in the ladder of spirtual

domain.When an individual has reached the state of self

realisation what is the necessity for him/her to bother abt

scriptures?That is meant only for lesser souls who are onthe path of

climbing up the ladder.I am not saying Sankara is wrong.Scriptures,namas

and other such things are only stepping stones in the spiritual

ladder.When one goes higher upthere is no necessity for all these as all

knowledge will automatically to such great souls.There is no

necessity for even

trying detachment from wordly affairs and that too will become

part and parcel of the knowledge acquired by such souls.But all these

require the guidance of a

perfect Guru in the higher stages and without his guidance it is

impossible to go to great heights and to reach the goal.However when

the aspirant is very sincere and follow all the disciplines prescribed

and ever immersed in the thoughtof God

thru concentration and contemplation,which will come

without asking when one is moving up certainly some Guru will appear

before him/her and guide in the right path.There is no doubt abt

that.There is no necessity to go in search of such a Guru.When the

mental set up is ripened the Guru will come on his own according to the

scheme of God and guide the aspirant towards his ultimate goal.Sincere

dedication to such a perfect Guru will bring more effect.The Gurus we

go and search may not be real gurus and so one can wait till the

Guru,who is real and perfect reaches the aspirant.Then depending upon

the wiping ot of the karmas the goal can be reached.I hv always

emphsised bookish knowlege will lead us nowhere in spiritual realm and

only practical knowledge can.

 

It is easy to think abt God Realisation but the path is not so

rosy unless there is sincerity,ambition,will to achieve the goal

on the part of the aspirant.For others

there are various methods prescribed by the acharyas to pratice

to clean their

physical and inner minds and the same can be followed.This is

not todiscourage

the aspirants to move away from the path of finding the goal but

on the other hand can be treated only as a guidance for their

upliftment.The more interest one shows on the path the more will be the

result.Just by reading Gita or

scriptures won't take anyone anywhere in the path although for

understanding's sake the same can be studied.As this is always a

controversial subject which I always handle all depends on individual

perceptions and convictions.As desired

by Veena I hv given only what I thought though thru some

experience from such realised persons and this is only my view as

nobody can claim authority on a subject like this.There can be better

views from others too as thisis not the final

thing in this subject.For beginners who can't find a proper Guru

even the God be taken as their manasika Guru till they get one when the

time comes when they are qualified for uplift in the spiritual domain.

 

 

Hare Krisha,

 

agraman.

 

 

"Veena A. Nair" <veeus18 > wrote:

 

 

 

Hari Om.

I give below some verses from Swami

Chinmayananda’s “Talks on Shankara’s Vivekachudamani” regarding

the steps towards liberation from the cycle of births and deaths.

 

Verse 69:

For liberation, first comes extreme

detachment from finite objects of sensual satisfaction. Then follow

calmness, self-control, forbearance, and complete renunciation of all

selfish actions.

 

Swamiji has hailed the Vivekachudamani as a

practical guide to a seeker of liberation. Any true seeker will be

impatient not only to understand the nature of liberation but also to

get a detailed discussion of the conditions under which one can achieve

it. Chief among the conditions are:

The capacity to be completely detached from

the craving for things known to be finite and perishable. A

discriminative intellect (viveka) can grow only when there is

full detachment (vairagya). Without developing disinterest in

acquiring and enjoying material pleasures we cannot enter the gates of

true Wisdom. Only when we recognize the finite, impermanent or

transient nature of things, will we invest our energies in uplifting

ourselves from the present stage to spiritual freedom.

 

In Verse 76, Shankara has given five

examples of attachment to the senses:

 

The deer is always fascinated by melodious sounds

and the deer hunter sings to charm the deer. Attracted by the sound,

the deer moves towards it and becomes a target of the hunter’s arrow.

 

Elephants, especially in the mating season,

become extremely attached to the sense of touch, rubbing

against each other and walking without paying attention, and fall into

the pits that have been dug to trap them.

The moth is enchanted by form and

attracted by the brilliance of the flame. It flutters towards it with

an agonizing impatience and gets burnt.

The fish, hungry at all times, in

its greed, swallows the bait and is trapped in the net and ends in the

stomach of fish-eaters.

The poor honey bee, attracted by the fragrance

of flowers, collects honey from the flowers and hoards it in a hive

until Man sets fire to the hive to get that honey.

 

Shankara says “then what is to become of

Man, who is attached to all the five senses?” He says that even the

poison of a cobra is less dangerous because one gets affected only when

one gets bitten; but the five senses are more dangerous because even

one look towards the object of desire can be dangerous (examples can be

seen even in the Ramayana especially of the rakshasa Maricha in the

disguise of a deer drawing Rama away from Sita).

 

 

Verse 70.

Thereafter comes “hearing”, then

reflection on what has been heard and lastly long and constant

continuous meditation on the Truth for the Muni (wise Teacher).

Ultimately that learned one attains the Nirvikalpa state and realizes

the bliss of Nirvana in this very life.

 

An individual who has cultivated calmness,

self-control, forbearance, and complete renunciation of all selfish

actions is fit for “hearing” the scriptures. It is important that one

listen to the explanation of at least one scriptural text from a true

Teacher. Listening (sravana) to the discourses is to be followed

by inner arguments and final assimilation by the intellect in a process

called reflection (manana); only then the ideas in the

text can become inculcated in the student’s own life. Listening and

reflection is to be followed by dhyana which is the

disciplining of one’s thoughts. When one has practiced dhyana for

many many years, daily (nityam) and constantly (nirantaram) then one

gets established in God consciousness.

 

Verse 82

If you have any craving for liberation,

avoid sense objects from a distance just as you avoid things known to

be poisonous. And with respectful devotion, daily cultivate the

nectarine virtues—contentment, forgiveness, straightforwardness,

calmness, and self-control.

 

Although concepts such as self-control,

detachment, discrimination etc. seem way beyond our simple

understanding, Sankara also offers us encouragement. As early as in

Verse 3, he says”manushyatwam, mumukshatwam, mahaapurusha sanshraya”.

Sankara says that to be born as a human being (manushyatwam) is a sign

of God’s grace. Then “mumukshatwam” which is a burning desire to

achieve liberation and finally “mahaa-purusha samshraya” a desire to

achieve the company of holy people culminating in a Guru to direct

one’s path—all these are signs of God’s grace. One who has been born as

a human being and is aware of what is laid down in the scriptures, if

such a person does not have the enthusiasm to strive for liberation,

such a person is called a “mudha-dhihi” a dull fool by Shankara. This

happens when one is blinded by objects and busies oneself in running

after things to satisfy the body and mind.

 

---------------

 

Thanks for your mail Sunita. I have had this

book for a while after another friend reccommended it as a must for

someone interested in spirituality. But with everything else going on,

it was confined to the shelf, until your mail came along and I was

encouraged to pick it up. I hope Shri Ramanji will contribute some of

his thoughts too and so will the other members.

Om Namo Narayanaya.

 

 

rsunitaa <rsunitaa > wrote:

 

 

Om Namo Narayanaya!

 

Shri Ganapathy Ramanji,

Please can you kindly guide us as to what we can do in addition

to Nama Samkirtanam for GOD realisation.

 

guruvayur ,

Syamala Nair

<syamalaraghunath wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Ganapathy Ramanji

>

> Thank you for the mail.

>

> First of all let me with all frankess inform you that I did

not feel anything bad about your statement. Infact I am happy that

I have been corrected where I am wrong . You have correctly said, I

did not understand the subject properly. I focused my attention

only on the benefits of nama japam and was all the more eager to

share my experience with the group . I just overlooked the fact

about God realisation for which one has to take mantra from

a "Guru" and is a thorny path and is not that easy.

>

> Thank you for drawing my attention to this and I accept your

comments/clarification in very good spirit and value your comments.

>

> Await much more such information from members like you

>

> Sincerely

> Syamala

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:

> Dear Syamala,

>

> It is really appreciable that your faith and bhakthy helped you

in getting your illness cured.However I am afraid that you hv not

properly studied the subject

> which I wrote.As you,yourself have said that I hv stressed nama

japa as the

> foundation for spiritual advancement.I dealt a subject abt

God

Realization and not the merits of nama japa and hence I emphasised

that nama japa alone won't

> take one in the higher dimensions of spiritualism.I think

there

is some confusion

> in your reading what I hv written.As we don't hv much idea abt

the earlier yugas except from puranas it is my view that blaming

Kali yuga alone is not a correct

> approach.Even during the earlier yugas there were weapons of

mass destruction like so many astras and many were adept in using

the same.So too there were many medicines though not in the form of

tablets but from nature given plants for

> getting illness cured which they adopted.As we hv wars and other

things in earlier yugas all those things were there and jealousy,

interest in expanding empire were there even in those times.Sure in

those times they had plenty of time for doing yagas and other things

but that did not prevent the evil forces from

> disturbing them also.So what we hv now is that all those things

are in a new shape.That is all.Even with plenty of time available

they could not develop much the countries but spent the time in

scheming and other things and we hv no idea abt the common people

except the rulers and their machinations.Now those things are

there

for our own vision.While in those times many things were done thru

mantras now all are done by scientific development.So the status

quo

> is always there and only the methods hv changed.

> Anyways your mail is commendable for your experiences.Regarding

 

tulsi leaves

> even now in almost all vishnu temples they give the same as

theertham as tulsi leaves hv got great effect in relieving many

illness and that is why we worship tulsi more than other plants.So

there is no point in blaming kali yuga for all the ills as the same

were common in the earlier yugas also.As we depend for those things

some puranas we take the same as granted.Lord Krishna who in His

time was considered as a super magician is now regarded as God.So

too as time goes by what people we say magicians may become God.It

is only Time that decides everything.I appreciate your reply and if

you could understand what I hv written then perhaps you may agree to

some extent.That is your privilege and I hv nothing to say and this

I hv written not as a rebuttal of your belief but only as a

clarificatory statement.Hope you will take this in good spirits.Such

comments will only enhance the maturity of the Group I believe, and

in this you hv done a good job.God Bless.

>

> Hare Krishna,

>

> agraman.

>

>

>

>

> Syamala Nair <syamalaraghunath wrote:

> Dear Shri Ganapathy Ramanjai

>

> My knowledge in this is very much limited. I also agree with

Shri Ganapathy Ramanji that only nama japam is not sufficient but

ofcourse nama japam is a must. In the Bhagavatham, Bhagawan

mentioned how he can be worshiped at the four yugas. For

Kaliyuga, it is mentioned Nama Sankeertanam. According to me

during Satyuga, Tretayuga and Dwapara Yuga, people had time to do

the tapa, dhyanam, yangam etc., as there were nothing much to

distract their attention. However, in Kaliyuga, God knew , people

willl never be able to do all the above as circumstances will be

such and at times will even forget that one super power is there.

May be because of that it is said nama sankeertanam will give the

same benefit of other yangas done in other yugas. Nama japam can

be done anywhere and everywhere. Thus mankind will take HIS name

atleast once in a while in the busy schedule of life and he can

guide such people in the right direction.

>

> However, my firm belief is that nama japam can do miracles in

curing diseases. Sincere prayer always have more value than

medicine. We all know how Shri Melpathurji got cured of his vata

rogam.

>

> Last year, I had boils all over my body. I took medicine, but

there was no improvement. Finallly I decided to do archana for

Guruvayoorappan with tulsi leaves every day chanting some slokas

and also reciting "roga hara Shri Guruvayoor stotram" ( from Agre

Pashyami - a publication of Giri Trading). Also I started keeping

water in kindi and after archana pick up some tulsi leaves and

put in the water. Next day morning I drink that water and also take

the smell of the tulsi leaves lying at HIS feet. This I did

after saying" This is my sidhaushadam and I have no other solace

except HIM" . No one will believe. It worked. Now I am free from

this, but even today I continue doing the archana and drinking the

teertham with all humility.

>

> A humble devotee

> Syamala

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:

> I agree with you Balagopal.There is a general trend that

whatever happens that are bad it is becozof Kali Yuga as if nothing

had happened in the earlier yugas.But even from Puranas which form

the foundation of the happenings of the

> earlier yugas there were all sorts of evil things like

war,jealousy,lust,anger,

> mutual distrust,scheming etc and why shuld we blame Kali Yuga

only,I am still

> unable to fathom.It is also true that the learned people had

said that Nama sankeertan is sufficient in Kali Yuga.How can they

know that?Is it possible to

> spend the full day doing Nama sankeertan.That is way away from

tangent of

> pragmatism.In fact in Kali Yuga more things are done good also

due to the

> development of all fields and prosperity of mankind in

general.Poverty,illiteracy and all such things are not the

property

of Kali Yuga only and the same were there even earlier yugas.So

blaming everything ill as due to Kali yuga carries no

> weight.We hv been trained from our childhood in such a way

without allowing

> independent thinking and just repeating the old puranas of the

earlier yugas when milk and honey were supposed to flow contrary to

facts.So instead of blaming this yuga for anything and everything

man must strive to develop him

> first and not to buckle under the theory of all ills are due to

Kali Yuga.

>

> Of course nama smaran is only one of the ways for development of

bhakthy and that alone won't lead to the finall consummation as

ignorantly thought as the

> process in this are not properly understood and can't be

understood from our

> present state of evolutionary aspects and hence it is advised by

the great people just say nama for all the ills as one teaches a

child in the KG class.But when the child grows and reaches post

graduation level still lingering on the subject of

> KG class,will not that look funny?The foundation is built in KG

class and it is for the child to develop its knowledge by studying

various other subjects and then only progress comes even in material

world and then there is no necessity to talk abt the spiritual world

which is not for all to access and only highy qualified

> souls can reach that and just by thinking by doing simply nama

smarana all can be achieved in spirtual world shows only some

misguided perceptions.Then why the great people said that?It is

only

to develop the individual soul to develop by starting somewhere as

advanced teachings can't be understood and so just for beginners the

same were taught.So by saying nama smarana alone nobody is going to

get any God realisation.To counter this some people like

Thyagaraya

and others can be quoted.But they left eveything and spent the full

time doing nama japa.Can anybody do the same now in the present day

world without thinking abt other commitments?So too much need not

be

studied abt nama japa alone as a panacea for all illness.Nama japa

is only one of the ways of developing bhakthy but that alone won't

make reach Godhood as one thinks.It is always heartening to think

abt Realisation but what is that nobody can answer as the path is

very arduous and just by reading some texts

> nothing can be proceeded with uness more practical,experiences

 

are there which alone can make one understand the subjects and that

requires so many things which had been repeated by me umpteen times

and hence no more repetition is required.

> This does not confer as if a I am a great soul and on the verge

of Realisation which may take several births but I say this with my

acquaintances with some Realised souls and after hearing their

experiences which unfortunately I hv not been able to enjoy so far

though occasionally some glimpses can be seen.That is all.Hence my

conclusion that spiritualism is a thorny way and one can succeed

only thru the Grace of Guru and vigorous practices.As I always say

this is only my views and there may be better souls who hv greater

experiences and

> knowledge and sometimes they may be right in their own ways.So

my belief

> that bookish knowledge and writings can be made by anybody by

learning but to enter the domain is not as easy as one thinks or

imagines.Then what is the alternative?One has to put his

foundation

strong like nama japa,and other things before embarking on higher

courses and never imagine that nama japa alone will lead one to

Moksha,a concept which nobody can define except

> Realised sages.Other things are only stories good for reading

like fairy tales.I

> am not for controversy on this as all hv their own views but

just touched what I felt.

>

> Hare Krishna.

>

>

>

>

> balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote:

> HARI AUM

>

> Thinking of it, this 'only chanting of names' is ONLY

> a way out when one is short of all other avenues to

> seek HIM.

>

> I think as soon as we acquire the habit of chanting

> his name, which shall be done 24*7 while engaging in

> all other activities of life, one is also supposed to

> proceed further into the realm of KNOWLEDGE (Jnana)to

> dispel the darknened ignorance and realise the self.

>

> With just namsankeertan one can build a bed but will

> benefit more if the water of knowledge is allowed to

> flow thru irrigating the humanity as a whole.

>

> Welcoming more on this from our members.

>

> Regards

>

> Balagopal

>

> NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA

>

> --- vinita manikantan <vinitamanikantan

> wrote:

>

> >

> > Dear Chandrasekharan Nairji and Jayashreeji

> >

> > I wish to add some thing more on your discussion.

> >

> > we are living in the age of Kali, called Kaliyuga.

> >

> > In other yugas, the yuga-dharma (process of

> > self-realization for the age) is much more

> > difficult.

> > For example, in the satya-yuga, the yuga-dharma is

> > ashtanga-yoga. People would have to live alone in

> > the

> > forests and engage in severe austerities and

> > meditation for thousands of years to come to the

> > platform of self-realization. Such a process is

> > difficult even in the exalted age of satya-yuga. In

> > the kali-yuga the Lord gives us one very special

> > benediction. Since we have lost all good qualities,

> > and since we have no proper qualification, the Lord

> > gives us the simplest and quickest method for

> > self-realization - chanting His holy names.

> >

> > harer nama harer nama

> > harer namaiva kevalam

> > kalau nastyeva nastyeva

> > nastyeva gatir anyatha

> >

> > "In the age of Kali there is no other way to attain

> > the supreme destination of life except the chanting

> > of

> > the names of Sri Hari. There is no other way, no

> > other

> > way, no other way."

> >

> > i wish to add some thing about Kaliyuga and kaliyuga

> > Dharma

> >

> > Pleas read more

> >

> > Your Servant

> >

> > Vinita Manikantan

> >

> > Of all the yugas the Kali-yuga has been described in

> > the shastras as the worst. The Bhagavata Purana

> > describes and defines the qualities of Kali-yuga as

> > follows:

> >

> > yada mayanritam tandra

> > nidra himsa vishadanam

> > shoka-mohau bhayam dainyam

> > sa kalis tamasah smritah

> >

> > "When there is a predominance of cheating, lying,

> > sloth, sleepiness, violence, depression,

> > lamentation,

> > bewilderment, fear and poverty, that age is Kali,

> > the

> > age of the mode of ignorance."

> >

> > Why these qualities develop is further explained:

> >

> > prayena martya bhagavantam acyutam

> > yakshyanti pashanda-vibhinna-cetasah

> >

> > "In the Kali-yuga the human beings will not offer

> > sacrifice to God because their intelligence will be

> > diverted by atheism."

> >

> > dharmam vakshyanty adharma-jna

> > adhiruhyottamasanam

> >

> > "Those who know nothing about religion will mount a

> > high seat and presume to speak on religious

> > principles."

> >

> > vedah pashanda-dushitah

> >

> > "The Vedas will be contaminated by the speculative

> > interpretations of atheists."

> >

> > Thus with the degradation of religion, and the rise

> > of

> > atheistic thought, all sacrifice to God will be

> > stopped. Human life is unique among all forms of

> > life

> > in that it alone offers the opportunity for

> > spiritual

> > advancement. Due to the fully blossomed mental

> > faculties, the human is able to inquire into the

> > source of everything, the absolute truth. Without

> > this

> > inquiry, the human being is essentially no better

> > than

> > a common animal. The scriptures describe such people

> > as dvi-pada pashu, or "two legged animals"). Thus

> > such

> > a society without spiritual endeavour is nothing

> > more

> > than an animalistic society of cats and dogs. Among

> > the cats and dogs we do not expect there to be peace

> > and harmony. Likewise, when human beings live in

> > animalistic consciousness, we cannot expect there to

> > be any peace in the society - there will be only war

> > (kalih). Thus the situation becomes the "age of

> > war",

> > or kali-yuga.

> >

> > Some of the other qualities of the age are described

> > as follows:

> >

> > na rakshishyanti manujah

> > sthavirau pitarav api

> >

> > "Men will no longer protect their elderly parents."

> >

> > durbiksha-kara-karshitah

> >

> > "The people will become emaciated by famine and

> > taxation."

> >

> > nityam udvigna-manaso

> >

> > "Their minds will constantly be disturbed and

> > agitated."

> >

> > rajanash ca praja-bhakshah

> >

> > "The politicians will virtually eat their citizens."

> >

> > dasyutkrishta janapada

> >

> > "The cities will be dominated by theives."

> >

> > vittam eva kalau nrinam

> > janmacara-gunodayah

> > dharma-nyay-vyavasthayam

> > karanam balam eva hi

> >

> > "In the Kali-yuga, wealth alone will be considered

> > the

> > sign of a man's good birth, proper behaviour and

> > fine

> > qualities. And law and justice will be applied only

> > on

> > the basis of one's power."

> >

> > vipratve sutram eva hi

> >

> > "One will be known as a brahmana simply by wearing a

> > thread (not by one's qualities or knowledge)."

> >

> > tatash canu-dinam dharmah

> > satyam shaucam kshama daya

> > kalena balina rajan

> > nankshyaty ayur balam smritih

> >

> > "Truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, mercy,

> > duration

> > of life, physical strength and memory will all

> > diminish day by day because of the powerful

> > influence

> > of the age of Kali."

> >

> > The four yugas (satya, treta, dvapara, and kali)

> > rotate like seasons. Just as certain seasons have

> > particular qualities (summer is hot, winter is

> > cold),

> > so each cosmic age has particular qualities. In the

> > Satya yuga (the age of truth) the entire population

> > is

> > religious and self-satisfied. Their aim is only self

> > realization. All of the godly qualities are present

> > in

> > the Satya yuga.

> >

> > Due to the influence of time, all things degrade and

> > decay. Thus as the age passes from Satya-yuga to

> > Treta-yuga, the subtle qualities of people degrade,

> > and thus there is a loss of truthfullness,

> > austerity,

> > mercy, etc. As the time passes from one age to the

> > next, one quarter of all good qualities and religion

> > are lost. Thus as the Treta-yuga begins, only 75% of

> > the people are interested in spiritual activities.

> > Then as the Dvapara-yuga begins, only 50% of the

> > population is interested in God consciousness.

> > Finally

> > as the Kali-yuga begins, only 25% of the population

> > is

> > interested in religion, and this number gradually

> > reduces to zero, at which time the Lord incarnates

> > as

> > the Kalki avatara to put an end to the Kali yuga and

> > bring about a new cosmic cycle of time beginning

> > again

> > with the Satya-yuga.

> >

> > Just as the good qualities of the people degrade, in

> > the same way their life spans also decrease from age

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> ________

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