Re:Dasavatharam.

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Hare Krishna ! In my humble opinion, Sri Krishna and Maha-Vishnu are non-different . In Guruvayoor temple , the Deity is Maha-Vishnu who is worshipped as Sri Krishna . Same is the case with many other Vedic Krishna temples which were consecrated by the Devatas. In Vishnu Sahasranamam and Narayaneeyam, Bhagavan Krishna is repeatedly addressed as Maha-Vishnu . A Bhakta should be aware that, Sri Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead . Otherwise , he will be deluded by ‘Maya’ (illusion) and can’t attain proper

‘Saranaagati’ at the lotus feet of Bhagavan . Sri Krishna says in Gita ( 10.7) “He who knows in truth My opulence and yogic power , has firm bhakti in Me. There is no doubt about this ” . The Braj vasis were ‘Rsis’ in their previous birth ; and as a result of their accumulated ‘punya’ , they could afford to take liberties with Bhagavan . However , ordinary mortals like us who are severely hampered by the sinful reactions of previous births , need to be extra vigilant to escape from the destructive influence of ‘false ego’ caused by Maya . Therefore, we the eternal servants of Bhagavan Krishna must surrender unconditionally to Bhagavan Sri Krishna and take refuge at HIS lotus feet . As Suneetaji pointed out the other day , Arjuna was a great vedic scholar ; and he was taught by none other than Dronacharya , the incarnation of Brihaspathi (Deva-Guru) . However, in the war field Kurukshetra , when he came face to face with the hard realities of life , Arjuna was overcome by ‘Maya’ . He

forgot all the transcendental knowledge he had acquired till then ; and started behaving like a novice . Then Bhagavan Krishna asked Arjuna to surrender to HIM ( the Supreme God) in order to be qualified to receive the supreme transcendental knowledge in the form of ‘Bhagavad Gita’ . We must remember that even top Devatas such as Lord Indra , Lord Brahma and Lord Shiva failed miserably when they were challenged by the Maya-sakti , the powerful illusionary energy controlled by Maha-Vishnu . When King Mucukunda asked Sri Krishna, “ Who are You ” ? SB 10.51.23 – 30 : As he gazed at the Lord, King Mucukunda saw that He was dark blue like a cloud, had four arms, and wore

a yellow silk garment . On His chest He bore the Srivatsa mark and on His neck the brilliantly glowing Kaustubha gem . Adorned with a Vaijayanti garland, the Lord displayed His handsome, peaceful face, which attracts the eyes of all mankind with its shark-shaped earrings and affectionately smiling glance. The beauty of His youthful form was unexcelled, and He moved with the nobility of an angry lion. The highly intelligent King was overwhelmed by the Lord's effulgence, which showed Him to be invincible. Expressing his uncertainty, Mucukunda hesitantly questioned Lord Krishna as follows. Sri Mucukunda asked : · Who

are You who have come to this mountain cave in the forest, having walked on the thorny ground with feet as soft as lotus petals? · Perhaps You are the potency of all potent beings. Or maybe You are the powerful god of fire, or the sun-god, the moon-god, the King of heaven or the ruling demigod of some other planet . I think You are the Supreme

Personality among the three chief gods, since You drive away the darkness of this cave as a lamp dispels darkness with its light. · O best among men, if You like, please truly describe Your birth, activities and lineage to us, who are eager to hear. SB 10.51.23 – 30 : Thus addressed by the King, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, origin of all creation, smiled and then replied to him in a voice as deep as the rumbling of clouds. The Supreme Lord said : · My dear friend, I have taken thousands of births, lived thousands of lives and accepted thousands of names . In fact My births, activities and names are limitless, and thus even I cannot count them. · After many lifetimes someone might count the dust particles on the earth, but no one can ever finish counting My qualities, activities, names and births. · O King, the greatest sages enumerate My births and activities, which take place throughout the

three phases of time, but never do they reach the end of them . · Nonetheless, O friend, I will tell you about My current birth, name and activities. Kindly hear. Some time ago, Lord Brahma requested Me to protect religious principles and destroy the demons who were burdening the earth . Thus I descended in the Yadu dynasty, in the home of Anakadundubhi . Indeed, because I am the son of Vasudeva people call Me

Vasudeva . · I have killed Kalanemi , reborn as Kamsa, as well as Pralamba and other enemies of the pious. And now, O King, this barbarian has been burnt to ashes by your piercing glance. · Since in the past you repeatedly prayed to Me, I have personally come to this cave to show you mercy, for I am affectionately inclined to My devotees. Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya!!! Krishnadaya K.V.Gopalakrishna wrote….. Dear all,Radhe

Krishna!Our Sarojamji is 100% right, as it goes well with the quotation from the Upanishad. To reckon divinity with our system of arithmetic is wrong. This is the mistake I committed when I said that if Balarama and Krishna were avataras of the Lord, and the avataras were simultaneous, one cannot be a complete avatara. (Poornavatara. ), although, in many places, we have seen Krishna being mentioned as Poorna-punyavataram . In fact, something also was in my mind, that when I was reading Bhagavatam last week, I read in many

places as Krishna being mentioned as "Amsam" of the Lord. This was also puzzling to me. I shall quote chapter and verse later, as a rejoinder to this. I have myself written in many places in the Narayaneeyam commentary that Krishna is the only Poornavatara. In other words, I was trying to say that Balarama, as considered by many people as an avatara of Vishnu may not be right, as Balarama (as Lakshmana was in the Ramavathara) , is considered to be an avatara of Adisesha.. These doubts are never-ending. That is why I put a lid to it saying that everything is an aspect of Vishnu anyway, as

"Sarvam Vishnumayam Jagat"But coming back to the logic pointed out by Smt. Sarojamji, and considering the truth of the Upanishadic verdict, one has to admit that the Lord's ways are inscrutable and beyond human comprehension.LoveKVG---------sarojram18 wrote : This question has comup already in thegroup and has been dscussed in deail. I am reproducing What I wrote then,Moreover SRt KVG ha also quoted from Bhagavath etc to provre this but I don't underatand why he has said that if alarama is also an avathara then Krushna cannot be poornAvathAra. The upanishad says Poornamadhah poornamidham poornAth pornamudhachyathE poorNasta

poorNam AdhAya poorNmva avasishyathE. That is poorna(meaning Brahman , synonymous wuth Narayana of Visishtadhvaitha. )THias is poorna (Meaning the manifestation of God in the world as avathara or even as the world.)This poorna comes from that poorna. Taking away poorna from poorna what remains is also poorna. Lord Narayana is said to have manifested as Rama ,Krishna etc. That does not mean that the HIs natural abode, say vaikunta or the world as awhole or the cave of the heart as the antharyamin, has become empty. He is srvavyApee sarvabhoothAntharAt hma says upanishad.The avathara are said to be his amsa in the sense that a quarter of a circle is said to be the amsa of the whole. The smrthi says, 'yadha yadha hi dharmasya

glanirbhavathi bharatha abhyutthanam adhrmasya thqdhathmanam srjamyaham.' Yhat is wherever there is adharma aHe will create HImself.Rama or Krishna are not born in the natural course. The Lord has manifested Himself as such.So is Narasimha,varaha etc.The one who has createdeveryhting and he indweller of all is He not able to create a form for Himself and come in the world as such? Krishna using the first person singular inGita talks as the supreme self, the paramathman. THat is not decrying His avathara as DEvakisutha. All are avatharas as God is the indweller and the Self of all and the real

meaning of "I" is the real self only.But only in certain places the divinity shine forth in its full splendour. Regading the concept of ISKCON that Krishan alone is the supreme self and not an avathara, sure He is and so is Rama Narasimha even Siva Or Devi,because supremeself is Brahman whose manifestations are all.Ithihasa and puraNa e4xisted earlier than all oher schools of thought and what is said there has to be taken as authority. Finally saying Krishan is an avathara does not ah nyway undermine His being the supreme godhead because He is that.Regarding Dasavathara our earliest scriptural authority is srimadbhagavatha and vishnupurana according to which Krishna is

definitely an avathar. I have not read Prabhupada's bhagavatha but if Krishna is not an avathar how is the birth of Ksrishna as the son of vasudeva and devaki is explained?As for Jayadeva the reason he has not mentioned Krishnavathara is not because he considered Him as Supreme soul, whcih nodubt He is, not only as Krishna but also as Narsimha ,Rama or any of His manifestations as mentioned clearly in Ramayana and Bhagavatha, but Jayadeva was addressing Krishna in his ashtapadi, 'Pralaya payOdhijale' and hence he mentioned Krishna as the one who had been taking all the avatharas. as nNarayana bhattadri did in Narayaneeyam. He must have included Buddha for sankhyaApooraNam, that is to complete the number to ten, perhaps by that time Buddha has come to be accepted by the people as the tenth avathara of Vishnu. That is only by popular belief and not authorised by scriptures.in fact Bhagavatha mentions buddha indirectly saying that the Lord has taken the form of one

who created illusion in the minds of those who misconstrued vedic injunctions and proceeded towards the forbidden path and Rshabha and Kapila, the founders of Jainism and sankhya have been mentioned directly as the avathatras of Vishnu though not included in the prime ten.Bhagavatha says the Lord took 24 avatharas of which buddha is also one besides numerous avatharas He took in order to save the world.(Ref.Bhagvath a-2nd skandha-chapter 7) From time immemorial devotees of Lord Narayana considered te ten avathars of the Lord as invluding Krishna excluding Buddha . Inthe vaishanvite tradition, I mean the followeers of Ramanuja , after whom the vaishnavite religion started to flourish, though it was Sankara who formulated the six mathams of worship including that of Vishnu, all the vaishnavite acharyas like Desika have extolled only the ten avatharas, namely, matsya,kurma, varaha,nrsimha, vamana,parasuram a,rama,balarama, krishna and kalki.Morover the aim of the incarnation

has been set out in the Gita as 'parithranaya sadhunam vinasayacha dushkrtham' which point out only to these ten as avatharas. ----------- krishnadasa77 @ wrote …. Gopalakrishnaji - Shree Guruvayurappa Sharanam!I agree with you that a bhakta should not be too much bothered about the details about whether Krishna is Bhagavan or not, as the Braj vasis (residents of Vrindavan) did not really care whether Krishna was Bhagavan or not but were just engrossed in loving Him :-)But initially for a devotee whose faith is not that strong one has to understand the statements such as:***ete camsa kala pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan swayamindrari vyakumlam lokam mrdayanti yuge yuge All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Shree Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates

to protect the theists. – http://srimadbhagav atam.com/ 1/3/28/en***And the statement from Brahma-samhita saying that:***isvarah paramah krsnah saccidananda vigrahaanadir adir govinda sarva karana karanamKrishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes. – http://brahmasamhit a.com/5/1/ en***And, of course Krishna's own statement in Bhagavad-Gita saying that:***mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjayamayi sarvam idam proktam sutre mani gana iva"O conqueror of wealth [Arjuna], there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread." – http://www.asitis. com/7/7.html***Apologies if I have stated something wrong here.~Krishnadasa.

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