[Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Feedback on Deva Prasnam

October 13, 2006

Thank you so much Krishnadayaji for the detailed answer about Deva Prashnam. It is indeed very much helpful.

Shree Guruvayurappa Sharanam!

|Krishnadasa.Krishnadaya <krishnadayaguruvayur Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 10:04:41 AM[Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Feedback on Deva Prasnam

Krishna Guruvayoorappa ! Dear Sri Krishnadasaji , My

father was involved in the administration of two of our family temples .The following is based on what I learnt from him when he had organized a few Devaprasnams involving the Daivajnas (vedic astrologers) and Tazhaman Tantris, associated with Sabarimala Temple . Reasons for Deva Prasnam

When

there is unpleasant incidents or symptoms such as eclipse during puja ,

birth or death inside temple premises , theft , falling of blood in

temple, entry of forbidden birds or animals inside temple, falling down

of temple flag , Fire , etc , Deva Prasnam may be necessary . Preliminary Procedure for Deva Prasnam When the need for a Deva Prasnam arises , the temple Tantri is to grant his permission after obtaining the approval of Deity . Then the Administrators hold discussions with Vedic Astrologers (Daivajnas) to decide about the conducting of Deva Prasnam . Execution of Deva Prasnam . Daivajnas

keenly observes every “nimitham” (auspicious or inauspicious omen)

right from the first instance when he is contacted for Deva Prasnam . How many people came ….What they said first ….How they behaved … How the “nimithams” occurred then . ( for instance presence of a cow , crow or scorpion or sanke nearby while the discussion was in progress ) . All these are carefully noted and later analysed by the Daivajnas . Before conducting Deva Prasnam , the Tantri / Mel-Santi (chief priest) performs the necessary pujas such as Ganaptahy Homam , Pujas for the Deity , Griha-puja ,etc . Tantri , Mel-Santi , senior Brahmana- representatives , Administrators ,

Representatives of ‘Uraymakkar’ (Traditional temple-staff) , Representatives of Bhaktas , etc are present during the Deva Prasnam . The Daivajnas conduct Prasna-vicharam using the Astrological tools and methods . When the Chief Daivajnja interprets the verdict for each item , those who are present can ask for clarifications and debate . Daivajna answers to the queries and take note of relevant points, if any . In reality, it is the divine will of the Deity that is at work . HIS mind is revealed through various sources which the Daivajna understands very well . Upon completion of the above process ( which could last a few days ) , the Chief Daivajna submits the final report containing the opinions of the Deity and recommended measures to the

responsible authority . Results of Deva-Prasnam Although the above process looks complicated , its ‘ revelation of truth as it is ‘ often instills Bhakti in the hearts of the witnesses . My father was surprised, when the Deva –Prasnam accurately revealed , facts such as the hitherto unknown misconduct ofpriests , mistakes in pujas , Ill- effects

caused in the family due to Deity’s displeasure , theft in the temple , faults in the vastu , temple structure , etc . Even

the Daivajna accurately calculated and stated the exact location of our

first ancestral Tharavadu which was unknown to every one in the family

till then since it belonged to a different caste . Also,

he rightly predicted that , when the remedial measures are completed ,

so and so things will happen by itself . All these happened as predicted . Some of the famous revelations in Deva-Prasnam are given below : After

the 1971 fire in Guruvayoor temple , a Deva-Prasnam was conducted to

know about Guruvayoorappan’ s opinion on the renovation proposals . Bhagavan accepted all the proposals except the alteration of the main eastern entrance to the temple . ( This was greatly lauded by the Vastu-experts later . If that alteration was done, it would have resulted in vastu-dosham) . In Sabarimala Lord Ayyappa temple , a few years before, the Mel-santi had offered worship in a local church resulting in a controversy. Subsequently,

Lord Ayyappa's opinion was taken in the Deva-prasnam which asked for

the dismissal of that Mel-santi and the creation of “Purappeda-Santi”

system . In a major Sasta temple in Alappuzha , the Deity’s leg was accidentally disfigured . The Mel-santi out of his greed didn’t reveal this to any one , since the closure of temple and connected rituals would cut-off his income. He just used some glue to repair the

damage . Subsequently , unpleasant incidents such as violence by the temple elephant resulted in the stoppage of rituals . And thereafter a Deva Prasnam was held to find out the reasons . The disfiguration of Deity and the Mel-Santi’s misconduct was found in the Deva Prasnam ; and the accused confessed his guilt .

Conclusion Deva Prasnam is a sacred event . The ‘sattvic’ Daivajnas (who are great ‘sadhaks’ ) perform it with great Bhakti and care . Many of them even do it free of cost accepting only a

token Dakshina . Often they request all the participants to pray sincerely to the Deity , which will improve the accuracy of Deva Prasnam . I am not an expert in astrology and therefore unable to quote the astrological sastric texts relevant to the above . Sri Krishna says in Bhagavatam 11.7.23 “

Although I, the Supreme Lord can never be captured by ordinary sense

perception , those situated in human life may use their intelligence

and other faculties of perception to directly search for Me through

both apparent and indirectly ascertained symptoms ” . Om Namo Narayanaya !!! Krishnadaya . ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----Shree Guruvayurppa Sharanam!My greetings to all the members. Very happy to see that this is such a nice active group with an attitude of Seva to Bhagavan.I have a query:I

understand that 'Deva Prashnam' means asking the question to the Lord

for getting the answers directly from Him. Is this correct?If

so, how is this done? I am inquisitive to know about the process. Also,

if you could make available the document which was given to the

Guruvayur Devaswom board, the interested people can have a look.Finally

- A query related to seeing the attachments in this group. I am

d to the Daily Digest and hence am not able to see Attachments

in the mails which comes with the attachments.How can I see the mails with the attachments?Thank you all very much.~Krishnadasa. All-new Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

October 14, 2006

Hare Krishna ! Guruvayurappa !

Wonderful description of Deva Prasnam. Very

informative.

I am also attaching herewith a document on how the

Ashtamangala Deva Prashnam is conducted (with

example). This is written by Syamasundara Dasa (a

western devotee), a reputed Vedic astrologer in the

western world. Its slightly long - but if you read

through it, I am sure it will give you a good idea of

how the Deva Prashnam is done as also the importance &

relevance of astrology as practised in our own state

of KERALA.

-sriram

--- Krishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote:

> Krishna Guruvayoorappa !

>

> Dear Sri Krishnadasaji ,

>

> My father was involved in the administration of

> two of our family temples .The following is based

> on what I learnt from him when he had organized a

> few Devaprasnams involving the Daivajnas (vedic

> astrologers) and Tazhaman Tantris, associated with

> Sabarimala Temple .

>

> Reasons for Deva Prasnam

>

> When there is unpleasant incidents or symptoms

> such as eclipse during puja , birth or death inside

> temple premises , theft , falling of blood in

> temple, entry of forbidden birds or animals inside

> temple, falling down of temple flag , Fire , etc ,

> Deva Prasnam may be necessary .

>

> Preliminary Procedure for Deva Prasnam

>

> When the need for a Deva Prasnam arises , the

> temple Tantri is to grant his permission after

> obtaining the approval of Deity . Then the

> Administrators hold discussions with Vedic

> Astrologers (Daivajnas) to decide about the

> conducting of Deva Prasnam .

>

> Execution of Deva Prasnam .

>

> Daivajnas keenly observes every “nimitham”

> (auspicious or inauspicious omen) right from the

> first instance when he is contacted for Deva Prasnam

> . How many people came ….What they said first ….How

> they behaved … How the “nimithams” occurred then . (

> for instance presence of a cow , crow or scorpion or

> sanke nearby while the discussion was in progress )

> . All these are carefully noted and later analysed

> by the Daivajnas .

>

> Before conducting Deva Prasnam , the Tantri /

> Mel-Santi (chief priest) performs the necessary

> pujas such as Ganaptahy Homam , Pujas for the Deity

> , Griha-puja ,etc . Tantri , Mel-Santi , senior

> Brahmana- representatives , Administrators ,

> Representatives of ‘Uraymakkar’ (Traditional

> temple-staff) , Representatives of Bhaktas , etc are

> present during the Deva Prasnam .

>

> The Daivajnas conduct Prasna-vicharam using the

> Astrological tools and methods . When the Chief

> Daivajnja interprets the verdict for each item ,

> those who are present can ask for clarifications and

> debate . Daivajna answers to the queries and take

> note of relevant points, if any . In reality, it is

> the divine will of the Deity that is at work . HIS

> mind is revealed through various sources which the

> Daivajna understands very well .

>

> Upon completion of the above process ( which could

> last a few days ) , the Chief Daivajna submits the

> final report containing the opinions of the Deity

> and recommended measures to the responsible

> authority .

>

> Results of Deva-Prasnam

>

> Although the above process looks complicated ,

> its ‘ revelation of truth as it is ‘ often instills

> Bhakti in the hearts of the witnesses . My father

> was surprised, when the Deva –Prasnam accurately

> revealed , facts such as the hitherto unknown

> misconduct ofpriests , mistakes in pujas , Ill-

> effects caused in the family due to Deity’s

> displeasure , theft in the temple , faults in the

> vastu , temple structure , etc . Even the Daivajna

> accurately calculated and stated the exact location

> of our first ancestral Tharavadu which was unknown

> to every one in the family till then since it

> belonged to a different caste . Also, he rightly

> predicted that , when the remedial measures are

> completed , so and so things will happen by itself .

> All these happened as predicted .

>

> Some of the famous revelations in Deva-Prasnam are

> given below :

>

> After the 1971 fire in Guruvayoor temple , a

> Deva-Prasnam was conducted to know about

> Guruvayoorappan’s opinion on the renovation

> proposals . Bhagavan accepted all the proposals

> except the alteration of the main eastern entrance

> to the temple . ( This was greatly lauded by the

> Vastu-experts later . If that alteration was done,

> it would have resulted in vastu-dosham) .

> In Sabarimala Lord Ayyappa temple , a few years

> before, the Mel-santi had offered worship in a

> local church resulting in a controversy.

> Subsequently, Lord Ayyappa's opinion was taken in

> the Deva-prasnam which asked for the dismissal of

> that Mel-santi and the creation of “Purappeda-Santi”

> system .

> In a major Sasta temple in Alappuzha , the

> Deity’s leg was accidentally disfigured . The

> Mel-santi out of his greed didn’t reveal this to any

> one , since the closure of temple and connected

> rituals would cut-off his income. He just used some

> glue to repair the damage . Subsequently ,

> unpleasant incidents such as violence by the temple

> elephant resulted in the stoppage of rituals . And

> thereafter a Deva Prasnam was held to find out the

> reasons . The disfiguration of Deity and the

> Mel-Santi’s misconduct was found in the Deva Prasnam

> ; and the accused confessed his guilt .

> Conclusion

>

> Deva Prasnam is a sacred event . The ‘sattvic’

> Daivajnas (who are great ‘sadhaks’ ) perform it

> with great Bhakti and care . Many of them even do

> it free of cost accepting only a token Dakshina .

> Often they request all the participants to pray

> sincerely to the Deity , which will improve the

> accuracy of Deva Prasnam .

>

> I am not an expert in astrology and therefore

> unable to quote the astrological sastric texts

> relevant to the above .

>

> Sri Krishna says in Bhagavatam 11.7.23 “ Although

> I, the Supreme Lord can never be captured by

> ordinary sense perception , those situated in human

> life may use their intelligence and other faculties

> of perception to directly search for Me through both

> apparent and indirectly ascertained symptoms ” .

>

> Om Namo Narayanaya !!!

>

> Krishnadaya .

>

--\

------------------

> Shree Guruvayurppa Sharanam!

>

> My greetings to all the members. Very happy to see

> that this is such a nice active group with an

> attitude of Seva to Bhagavan.

>

> I have a query:

>

> I understand that 'Deva Prashnam' means asking the

> question to the Lord for getting the answers

> directly from Him. Is this correct?

>

> If so, how is this done? I am inquisitive to know

> about the process. Also, if you could make available

> the document which was given to the Guruvayur

> Devaswom board, the interested people can have a

> look.

>

> Finally - A query related to seeing the attachments

> in this group. I am d to the Daily Digest

> and hence am not able to see Attachments in the

> mails which comes with the attachments.

>

> How can I see the mails with the attachments?

>

> Thank you all very much.

>

> ~Krishnadasa.

>

> All-new Mail - Fire up a more powerful email

> and get things done faster.

Ashtamangala Deva Prasna

by Shyamasundara Dasa

On the morning of July 23, 1982 I found myself outside a Durga temple on the

outskirts of Trivandrum, the capital of Kerala, South India. I was gathered

with six of the most learned astrologers of the area, including my teacher

Krishnan Potti, an author (in Malayalam) of over a dozen books on astrology,

to do Ashtamangala Deva Prasna.

The setting was lush with many fruit-bearing coconut and banana trees as well

as the heady and intoxicating aroma of Champaka and Jasmine flowers. Incense

wafted in the breeze outside as everyone in attendance: the temple managers,

brahmanas, pujari, and local congregation waited for the astrologers to begin

the Ashtamangala Deva Prasna (hence forth ADP), a specialty of what could be

called the Kerala school of astrology. Ashtamangala is a method of numerology

and Deva Prasna is a special kind of Prasna specifically dealing with temple

matters. Both are explained in that encyclopedic treatise Prasna Marga (the

path of horary astrology). However, as I was soon to discover, successful ADP

required more than knowledge of these two subjects. Success depended on a

thorough knowledge of all the principles of Prasna Marga , plus a high degree

of intelligence, great powers of observation, and keen intuition stemming from

spiritual practices and an austere, pure lifestyle. Because the subject of

Prasna was a temple and the presiding devata, only the very best astrologers

were called upon to conduct the Prasna. By having several scholarly

astrologers present it was expected that mistakes would be minimized, and that

what one astrologer might miss another would pick up on.

This was not my first ADP. On my previous stay of 18 months, in 1977-78, I had

begun my study of astrology in Hyderabad and was then asked to take it up as

my full-time service to my guru. I had first began to study Prasna in this, my

second, sojourn in India (1980-83). I had been studying Jataka (natal

astrology) in Calcutta with Harihar Majumdar, a leading, elderly, scholar and

the author of Hindu Science of the Future (as well as many books in Bengali).

I strongly desired to become a well rounded astrologer and I knew from my

studies that there were six limbs to astrology, not just Jataka, but

unfortunately I had found no astrologers in North India who knew Prasna. I

knew, from my reading, that Prasna and other branches of astrology were well

preserved in South India. Thus after I finished my studies with my teacher and

gave him his daksina (donation for teaching me) I headed south to Bangalore in

May of 1981 armed with a letter of introduction from Y. Keshava Menon

(president of t he Calcutta astrological association and regular contributor

to The Astrological Magazine) to Dr. B.V. Raman.

I had just read Dr. Raman's translation of Prasna Marga and I hoped that he

would be able to guide me to a good teacher of this art. Dr. Raman kindly

consented to see me but threw a wet blanket on my dreams by telling me that it

would be practically impossible for me to find a good teacher of Prasna. (Good

scholars of astrology are rare, " he said, " of these, those that could teach

were rarer still; and of these, those who had time to teach a neophyte like me

were even more rare. And out of all of these astrologers one who could speak

English was the rarest of them all. " )

I was undaunted and determined to prove him wrong but I soon found that he had

not spoken lightly. Eventually, after many months of tireless searching and

meeting countless astrologers I finally found two sources for in-depth

knowledge of Prasna: a family of Jain astrologers in Bangalore headed by the

late B.G. Sasikantha Jain, who practiced Bhrgu Prasna. And Krishnan Potti the

scholar of Prasna Marga . Convincing Sasikantha Jain to teach me took me over

10 months, but that's another story. And while Krishnan Potti readily agreed

to teach me there was a little problem, actually two: he lived in a very

beautiful, but rather remote, hilly area, outside of Trivandrum with no access

by bus or taxi; and he didn't speak English. The first problem I solved by

learning to drive a motor-cycle. A simple feat you may think but considering

that there are practically no enforceable traffic laws in India and that road

obstacles include, but are not limited to: chickens, hogs, dogs, camels,

asses, goats, cows, buffaloes and the occasional elephant (and their dung,

chicken dung is no problem but I once ran into a soccer-ball sized lump of

elephant dung, at twilight, at about 30 mph, it was like hitting a big lump of

grease, I'm lucky to be alive), what to speak of throngs of people, buses,

lorries (big trucks), cars, plus terrible road conditions, etc. Going for my

astrology lessons meant to take my life in my own hands and I would fervently

pray to Lord Nrsimhadeva for protection. The second problem was a bit more

tricky. He didn't speak English and I didn't know Malayalam, the language of

Kerala. However, though no Sanskrit scholar, I had a rather large Sanskrit

vocabulary from studying Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam and other Vedic

literatures; ayurveda and of course my in-depth study of astrology in India. I

found that as long as we spoke in Sanskrit about astrology I could readily

follow what was being said and thus I passed more than a year studying with

Krishnan Potti.

Though he lived in a remote area away from the city he had a steady stream of

people who would show up for his advice. I wasn't his only student, he had

several including a policeman, but I was special because I was a foreigner who

had come so far, h ad taken up the Vedic lifestyle and was struggling so hard

to learn astrology. We handled all kinds of Prasnas but ADPs were special

because these Prasnas necessitated that several scholarly astrologers gather

at a venue away from their normal place of practice. Aside from this, ADPs

required the use of nimitta (omens) and other special procedures that we shall

presently describe. Because the ADPs involved many persons aside from my

astrology guru the discussions were all in Malayalam, thus I arranged for a

translator to accompany me for this day long affair, for I knew it would take

up the whole morning and most of the afternoon with a break for lunch.

What follows is directly from my notes of that day (I urge all students of

Prasna to keep notes and records of all Prasnas they do, I still keep notes).

It would be impossible for me to include everything that was said and done in

the (approximately) seven hour period necessary to conduct the Ashtamangala

Deva Prasna, however we hope that the reader will be able to appreciate the

mystical nature of the experience which, even for many students of Vedic

astrology, will seem to border on magical . Countless experiences like this

destroyed in my mind the mechanistic world view of modern science and

permanently established the Vedic, God-centered, world view of Krsna

Consciousness. As astrologers we are sometimes bound up in thinking that

everything revolves around symbols drawn on a piece of paper. This limiting

paradigm is shattered when we realize that everything in existence is a

message from Sri Krsna if we only knew how to read them. An astrologer must

always keep his eyes and ears open and be prepared to read everything that is

happening during a crucial moment such as a Prasna.

The Ashtamangala Deva Prasna Begins

To begin the Ashtamangala Deva Prasna the astrologers first prepared a small,

clean area of land and tidied it up and then covered it with a layer of raw

rice. The questioners were asked to adorn it with a ghee lamp, white flowers

and other ornament s as well as offerings such as Tambula (Pan leaves and

Betel nut) that the congregation of the temple offered. They then performed

puja (worship) with devotion on all the articles that would be used in the

process of divination and meditated on their istadevatas (personal patron

deity) for the ability to predict correctly.

The astrologers then called on an official of the temple with little or no

knowledge of astrology to come forward. They showed him a diagram of the

zodiac as it is drawn in typical South Indian style and ask him to duplicate

it on the prepared ground. Using a stick he carefully prepared the diagram by

first drawing the Western line, then the Southern line, then Eastern and

finally the Northern line. (In Prasna the directions of the diagram are such:

the side that has Aries and Taurus is East, Cancer and Leo is South, Libra and

Scorpio is West, and Capricorn and Aquarius is North).

The pandits noted down very carefully the order that he drew them. One stated

that because the priest drew the Western line first it was a highly

inauspicious omen indicating that diseases (or general harm) would increase.

And this was made worse because he had drawn the other lines in a counter

clockwise order which indicated many serious obstacles ahead. In general these

two things were looked upon as unfavorable omens. They then looked for any

irregularities in the way the lines were drawn, t hat is, if they were thick

or thin, broken, etc. But none were observed.

The astrologers then called on any young child not conversant with astrology

who was recently bathed and well dressed to come forward. The adults pushed a

child forward, the astrologers directed the child to worship the ghee lamp and

other divinatory paraphernalia with flowers. They then placed in the child's

right hand a piece of gold, along with flowers, water, sandal wood paste and

aksata (rice mixed with turmeric). The child was then instructed to go around

the Cakra of the zodiac and then stand near it facing east. In the mean time

the questioner, the person who had called this convocation of astrologers, was

instructed to be meditating on God to reveal His will. All the astrologers

then reflected on the problems of the querist and repeated their mantras, and

the one astrologer who would do the Ashtamangala was touching his cowry

shells. At the end they asked the child to deposit the gold in any one of the

signs that had previously been drawn by the priest. The child placed the

handful in the square designating Virgo.

It should be noted that the above two processes, that of drawing the Cakra and

choosing the Arudha Lagna, would be impossible using the North Indian format

for drawing a chart. The North Indian format is based on houses not signs. For

this and other reasons we recommend to students to use strictly the South

Indian format, which evidence suggests is the original Vedic format. There is

evidence to suggest that the North Indian format was introduced by Muslim

conquerors who dominated North India for nearly 800 years.

This Swarna Lagna (gold ascendant), as it is also known, became the Arudha

Lagna for the ADP. The Arudha Lagna is, as we have seen, chosen through a

divinatory omen process directed by the will of Sri Krsna, much in the same

way as other well known methods of divination such as Tarot and the I Ching.

There are other ways of finding the Arudha Lagna, such as noting which part of

the body the questioner is touching, the letter of the first sound they make,

what spot on the ground (of an imaginary zodiac projected onto the ground)

they are standing on when asking the question, etc. The exact time the Swarna

lagna was chosen was noted as 8:45 AM, thus the Udaya Lagna, the Lagna based

on time, was Leo. The planetary positions at the time were fixed and the

chart filled in with all the planets including Mandi, who is very significant

in Kerala astrology and South India in general, but not much used in the North

(planetary positions found at the end).

It should also be noted that there are some authors who never use Mandi in

their practice of astrology but have put forward academic arguments concerning

the proper way of calculating Mandi . Most modern computer programs that I

have seen adopt these methods of calculation. However, when I wrote the

Jyotish Vedic Program for Matrix Software, back in 1987, I used an algorithm

that duplicated the methods of Prasna Marga and the Kerala tradition as I

saw it practiced. This seemed more logical to me because these astrologers

actually use Mandi on a daily basis, Mandi is not an academic abstraction to

them.

The exact degree of the Arudha lagna was calculated by noting the degree of

the Udaya Lagna. Since the Udaya Lagna was 12LE13 thus the degree of the

Arudha Lagna would be 12VI13. Therefore the Arudha navamsa would then be the

fourth navamsa corresponding to Cancer.

The position of the Swarna Lagna was then examined. The piece of gold was

located in the middle of the square designating Virgo, however it was face

down, on top of the aksata and flowers, it was also tilted and slanted toward

the South. The astrologers declared this to be another bad omen indicative of

death and other evils (if it actually meant death would have to be judged

according to the whole picture).

While the Swarna Lagna was being chosen the head astrologer of the group,

Krishnan Potti, did the first part of the Ashtamangala. This requires a little

explanation; a major instrument for divination in Kerala are cowry shells

which have been specially selected, cleaned, sanctified (generally by chanting

of mantras and bathing in the waters of the Ganges or other sacred rivers) and

used only for divination. In less complex types of Prasna, that is other than

Deva Prasna, the Arudha lagna is often found by manipulation of the cowries

alone. For divination 108 cowries are used. To do the first part of the

Ashtamangala the astrologer first touches the cowries while meditating on his

mantra and asking for spiritual guidance. Then the astrologer arbitrarily

divides the shells into three piles, one to his left, one in front of him and

one to the right. After examining the Swarna Lagna Krishnan Potti did the

second part of the Ashtamangala by going to each pile of cowries and counting

off multiples of eight (ashta) and keeping the remainder, if the remainder is

zero then let it be eight. You will now have a three digit number in which no

digit is greater than eight. The digits represent past, present and future

respectfully from left to right. 1=Sun, 2=Mars, 3=Jupiter, 4=Mercury, 5=Venus,

6=Saturn, 7=Moon, 8=Rahu. (This is simplified, they also represent other

things as well.) Odd numbers are considered good, even numbers bad. The

Ashtamangala number that was obtained for the Prasna was 8 3 1 ruled by Rahu,

Jupiter and the Sun respectfully. Though it seemed clear to me that 831

indicated that the past was bad, the present and future looked good. However

the assembled scholars claimed that this was not actually the case. They said

that because the numbers were in a descending order from left to right this

indicated that the past was good, the present was bad and the future would be

worse. Other parts of the reading seemed to confirm this observation on their

part.

After this the ghee lamp was lit and the flame was observed to lean toward the

South, this was again declared to be an evil omen. Just then one of the

astrologers stated that the deity must have been moved at least twice before

being established in t he present temple. The temple managers replied that

this was true and wanted to know why he had said that? The astrologer said

this was so because he had noted that the ghee lamp had been placed near the

worship area but then picked up and moved twice before the Prasna started.

The astrologers then examined the Tambula (Pan leaves) that was offered for

worship. These Tambula represent the 12 houses of the Deva Prasna chart and

the conditions of these houses can be determined by the condition of the

leaves. Before we interpret the meaning of the leaves we will take opportunity

to give, in synopsis, the special meaning of the 12 houses in Deva Prasna:

1: Temple building, murti (likeness of the deity ), and divine presence of the

deity in the murti.

2: Wealth, income, temple treasures and guardians.

3: The naivedya (offerings made) and servants.

4: All buildings and land connected with the temple as well temple vehicles.

5: Murti and divine presence (again).

6: Pollution of the temple, enemies and thieves.

7: The people (congregation) and deity ornaments.

8: Divine presence, offerings, servants, and good and evil matters.

9: Nature of the temple authorities and the state of merit and piety.

10: Daily ceremonies (puja), special festivals and devalakas (persons involved

in making garlands, and performance of musical entertainment, etc.)

11: Piety, merit, prosperity and income.

12: Nature of the priests, expenditure and waste.

In this case since there were only three Pan leaves (only the first three

houses of the Deva Prasna chart could be examined by this method. The first

representing the lagna had marks and cuts thus things have not been good up

till now. The second was smaller than the others and had cuts, thus there were

financial problems. The third was in much better shape so it declared those

who served the temple were capable of doing good.)

The number of leaves were now used to determine the Tambula Lagna which is

arrived at by the following formula (T x 10 + 1)/7 where T is the number of

Tambulas. Since T=3 when we substitute we get a remainder of three which

represents Mars in the normal order of planets. Since Mars is in Libra this

becomes the Tambula Lagna. Mars itself indicates that there have been strife

and conflicts, and because it is Mars in Libra they deduced that the deity of

the temple was the goddess Kali. Now that the preliminaries were over the

readings and predictions based on the planetary positions started.

Since Rahu ruled over the first Ashtamangala number and he was in the 10th

with Venus one astrologer declared that the temple must have been towards the

East of the present place in a location occupied by a naga (special race of

serpent gods endowed with mystical powers and often irritable). This was

admitted by the temple mangers.

Since Mars had only just transited into Libra one astrologer dared to say that

in the past there must have been an accidental fire in the temple. Affirmative

was the response. They were now on a roll.

Another astrologer pointed out that Rahu and Venus in the 10th also indicated

that someone must have died from poison nearby and the ghost was still

lingering in the vicinity. We were told that in the past a child had taken

poison and died in the compound.

It should be noted that up to this time we were not informed why the ADP was

taking place, of course we could surmise there was trouble but had no details.

But as the ADP proceeded the details started to come out. At this point the

original question of the querist is finally revealed by the astrologers. One

astrologer said that because Saturn is in the Arudha Lagna they want to know

why has Durga devi (goddess of the material world) left the temple? The people

agree that indeed, this is their question. The reason she has left, the

astrologers say, is because the rules of conduct were not properly observed:

entry into the temple of impure people such as person's who had a recent death

in their family or women during their period, etc.

Since the Arudha Lagna is Virgo it was deduced that the land is owned by the

ladies of the family by special arrangement. This was also confirmed to be

true.

The astrologers agree that since Mars is the mahabadaka and Jupiter is the

samanyabadaka for Virgo (Raman, 1980 pp. 545-547) are in the 2nd house and

since Ketu is in Virgo navamsa, this same Virgo being the Arudha Lagna, then

some other person must have also died. This dead person (along with poisoned

child) having no shelter came to this temple and have contaminated the place.

The temple managers admit that indeed another person did die, a family member

died nearby by a fall from a tree.

The astrologers continue that since Jupiter is the badaka conjoined with Mars

significator of land, and this same Jupiter is aspecting Venus then the land

the temple is on was previously owned and that now a ghost of a fallen

brahmana is haunting t he place. They also claim that from the symptoms they

conclude that Bhadrakali, the ferocious form of Durga, has also manifested and

is covering over Durga. The temple managers have to remove Bhadrakali and

leave only Durga.

After examining all the houses of the Deva Prasna the astrologers concluded

that because of Ketu in the 4th and 4th lord Jupiter afflicted, the temple

should be reconstructed. That conclude that some theft has taken place. And

that the decorations i n the temple are non-existent. And that the affliction

to 10th and 12th house indicate much improvement necessary in regards to the

priestly functioning in the temple. They also recommend on the basis of the

condition of the 8th house that they should make special offering and worship

to pacify the deity.

Several questions are asked regarding what exactly should be done to pacify

the deity and remove Bhadrakali. Suggestions for remedies were proposed. To

determine if a proposed suggestion would work the astrologers would consult

the cowries for a yes or no answer. After posing the question and the proposed

solution Krishnan Potti would meditate and then take a handful of cowries.

Then counting off multiples of twelve he would arrive at a number, if the

remainder was zero then it was considered to be 12. This number represented a

new Arudha Lagna, if Jupiter was found to be in a trine or quadrant from this

new Arudha Lagna the answer was " yes " (otherwise it was " no " ). In this way for

several hours various strategies were tried to find a solution to the temple's

problems.

As we have seen from this one example the system of Vedic Prasna as preserved

in Kerala is a very powerful method. To master it requires a lot of hard work,

training and above all faith in Sri Krsna. Great faith is necessary because we

are conditioned to think in a mechanistic way, we must go beyond that and

understand that from a spiritual perspective everything in conscious and is

being controlled by God. The process of divination allows us to carry on a

dialog with God through apparently inanimate objects or chance occurrences.

This dialog can only be accomplished if we train and purify our intelligence,

mind and senses, through study of appropriate texts; as well as a sattvika,

brahminical and pure lifestyle based on the teachings of t he Vedas.

Planetary Positions (Lahiri ayanamsa)

July 23, 1982, at 8:45 AM, IST, Trivandrum, India, 76E55, 08N29

Rasi Navamsa

Arudha Lagna 12VI13 AR

Udaya Lagna 12LE13 CA

Sun 06CA21 LE

Moon 08LE44 GE

Mars 00LI08 LI

Mercury 03CA46 LE

Jupiter 07LI46 SA

Venus 09GE21 SA

Saturn 22VI52 CA

Rahu 19GE39 PI

Ketu 19SA39 VI

Mandi 12LE17 CA

References:

Bhat, Ramakrishna, M., 1992, Essentials of Horary Astrology or Prasnapadavi,

Delhi, India: Motilal Banarsidass Publishers.

Raman, Bangalore, Venkata, 1980, 1st Edition, translation, Prasna Marga , part

1, Bangalore, India: IBH Prakashana.

Raman, Bangalore, Venkata, 1985, 1st Edition, translation, Prasna Marga , vol.

2, Bangalore, India: IBH Prakashana.

The author:

Shyamasundara Dasa has been a disciple of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

since 1976. He began his study of Vedic astrology in 1977 and spent 5 years in

India studying several branches of astrology with masters of the subject.

Shyamasundara Dasa is a pioneer of Vedic astrology in the West. In 1979 he

completed the first Vedic astrology software. In 1983 he wrote the first

Vaisnava (Vedic) lunar calendar computer program which has become the official

calendar for ISKCON (International Society for Krsna Consciousness) worldwide.

His 3rd generation astrology software was published by Matrix Software in 1988

under the title Jyotish Vedic Astrology program. It was the number one program

for many years and used by most of today's Vedic astrologers. In 1987 he

organized the 3rd annual Vedic Astrology conference sponsored by Matrix

software. In 1996 he completed writing a series of courses for the Vedic

astrology syllabus of the Florida Vedic College (FVC). The FVC is recognized

by the state of Florida (and thus the whole USA and the world) as a degree

granting institution. The FVC is the only institution of higher learning in

the West offering degree courses in Vedic astrology.

October 16, 2006

Jai Sreekrishna Thank you Krioshnadayaji for the information Humbly SyamalaKrishnadaya <krishnadaya wrote: Krishna Guruvayoorappa ! Dear Sri Krishnadasaji , My father was involved in the administration of two of our family temples .The following is based on what I learnt from him when he had organized a few Devaprasnams involving the Daivajnas (vedic astrologers) and Tazhaman Tantris, associated with Sabarimala Temple . Reasons for Deva Prasnam When there is unpleasant incidents or symptoms such as eclipse during puja , birth or death inside temple premises , theft , falling of blood in temple, entry of forbidden birds or animals inside temple, falling down of temple flag , Fire , etc , Deva Prasnam may be necessary . Preliminary Procedure for Deva Prasnam When the need for a Deva Prasnam arises , the temple Tantri is to grant his permission after obtaining the approval of Deity . Then the Administrators hold discussions with Vedic Astrologers (Daivajnas) to decide about the conducting of Deva Prasnam . Execution of Deva Prasnam . Daivajnas keenly observes every “nimitham” (auspicious or inauspicious omen) right from the first instance when he is contacted for Deva Prasnam . How many people came ….What they said first ….How they behaved … How the “nimithams” occurred then . ( for instance presence of a cow , crow or scorpion or sanke nearby while the discussion was in progress ) . All these are carefully noted and later analysed by the Daivajnas . Before conducting Deva Prasnam , the Tantri / Mel-Santi (chief priest) performs the necessary pujas such as Ganaptahy Homam , Pujas for the Deity , Griha-puja ,etc . Tantri , Mel-Santi , senior Brahmana- representatives , Administrators , Representatives of ‘Uraymakkar’ (Traditional temple-staff) , Representatives of Bhaktas , etc are present during the Deva Prasnam . The Daivajnas conduct Prasna-vicharam using the Astrological tools and methods . When the Chief Daivajnja interprets the verdict for each item , those who are present can ask for clarifications and debate . Daivajna answers to the queries and

take note of relevant points, if any . In reality, it is the divine will of the Deity that is at work . HIS mind is revealed through various sources which the Daivajna understands very well . Upon completion of the above process ( which could last a few days ) , the Chief Daivajna submits the final report containing the opinions of the Deity and recommended measures to the responsible authority . Results of

Deva-Prasnam Although the above process looks complicated , its ‘ revelation of truth as it is ‘ often instills Bhakti in the hearts of the witnesses . My father was surprised, when the Deva –Prasnam accurately revealed , facts such as the hitherto unknown misconduct ofpriests , mistakes in pujas , Ill- effects caused in the family due to Deity’s displeasure , theft in the temple , faults in the vastu , temple structure , etc . Even the Daivajna accurately calculated and stated the exact location of our first ancestral Tharavadu which

was unknown to every one in the family till then since it belonged to a different caste . Also, he rightly predicted that , when the remedial measures are completed , so and so things will happen by itself . All these happened as predicted . Some of the famous revelations in Deva-Prasnam are given below : After the 1971 fire in Guruvayoor temple , a Deva-Prasnam was conducted to know about Guruvayoorappan’s opinion on the renovation proposals .

Bhagavan accepted all the proposals except the alteration of the main eastern entrance to the temple . ( This was greatly lauded by the Vastu-experts later . If that alteration was done, it would have resulted in vastu-dosham) . In Sabarimala Lord Ayyappa temple , a few years before, the Mel-santi had offered worship in a local church resulting in a controversy. Subsequently, Lord Ayyappa's opinion was taken in the Deva-prasnam which asked for the dismissal of that Mel-santi and the creation of “Purappeda-Santi” system

.. In a major Sasta temple in Alappuzha , the Deity’s leg was accidentally disfigured . The Mel-santi out of his greed didn’t reveal this to any one , since the closure of temple and connected rituals would cut-off his income. He just used some glue to repair the

damage . Subsequently , unpleasant incidents such as violence by the temple elephant resulted in the stoppage of rituals . And thereafter a Deva Prasnam was held to find out the reasons . The disfiguration of Deity and the Mel-Santi’s misconduct was found in the Deva Prasnam ; and the accused confessed his guilt . Conclusion Deva Prasnam is a sacred event . The ‘sattvic’ Daivajnas (who are great ‘sadhaks’ ) perform it with great Bhakti and care . Many of them even do it free of cost accepting only a token Dakshina . Often they request all the participants to pray sincerely to the Deity , which will improve the accuracy of Deva Prasnam . I am not an expert in astrology and therefore unable to quote the astrological sastric texts relevant to the above . Sri Krishna says in Bhagavatam 11.7.23 “ Although I, the Supreme Lord can never be captured by ordinary sense perception , those situated in human life may use their intelligence and other faculties of perception to directly search for Me through both apparent and indirectly ascertained symptoms ” . Om Namo Narayanaya !!! Krishnadaya . --------------------Shree Guruvayurppa Sharanam!My greetings to all the members. Very happy to see that this is such a nice active group with an attitude of Seva to Bhagavan.I have a query:I understand that 'Deva Prashnam'

means asking the question to the Lord for getting the answers directly from Him. Is this correct?If so, how is this done? I am inquisitive to know about the process. Also, if you could make available the document which was given to the Guruvayur Devaswom board, the interested people can have a look.Finally - A query related to seeing the attachments in this group. I am d to the Daily Digest and hence am not able to see Attachments in the mails which comes with the attachments.How can I see the mails with the attachments?Thank you all very much.~Krishnadasa. All-new Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

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