[Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Blessings-Bhakthi for Mukthi or Bhakthi for only Bhakthi

October 28, 2006

HARI AUM

This leads to some fundamental principles.

If ‘Mukthi’ is not be reached what is the ‘Goal’ of

‘Bhakthi’? Does ‘bhakthi’ remain just for the sake of

‘bhakthi’? If so what is ‘bhakthi’? Once the fruit is

ripe, is it befitting for the fruit to remain ripe and

not serve its selfless purpose of being eaten by

another and enjoy the fruit? If it does not happen

won’t the ‘nature’ (prakriti) do something

(‘prakritistwam niyokshathi) with the fruit? Will it

continue to stay ripe or start decaying? What are the

travails of the ‘drop’ remining as a ‘drop’ and does

not look forward to merge with the ‘ocean’? Can it

remain so enjoying the bliss of ‘bhakthi’? Is that act

selfish or sefless? Won’t the sunlight, heat and wind

put the ‘drop’ back in the cycle of evolution? Won’t

it evaporate and begin the next cycle of ‘birth’ and

‘death’?

I think the only thing that is true of existente is

‘CHANGE’. Nature has structured this eternal ‘quality’

to all those which ‘exists’ outside the ‘one’ i.e. in

duality. So trying to remain static and enjoying the

‘state’, even if it is ‘bliss’ is termed as

‘indulgence’ and will attract the laws of ‘duality’

namely ‘pleasure’ and ‘pain’.

So shall we not move on and give way, place and

opportunity for others?

This the only way we can make the saying’LOKAHA

SAMASTHAHA SUKHINO BHAVANTHU’ meaningful.

‘kaloasmi lokashayadkrut pravrutho lokan

samahruthumihapravrutha

rhithepitwam na bhavishyanthisarve yeh avasthithaha

prathyaneekoshu yodha’

(verse 32 Chapter 11)

Regards

Balagopal

NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA

--- Krishna Dasa <krishnadasa77 wrote:

> Thank you very much KVGji for this mail from you.

> Actually I was going to send this mail to your

> previous mail but it did not go through as there was

> some problem with the way my email address was

> set-up. Anyway, I am pasting it here again

>

> ---

>

> Dear KVGji & Sarojaji,

>

> Thank you so much for both your replies. I can see

> the humility with which you both have written this

> mail, even though you have responded to the query in

> so scholarly & sublime way.

>

> But, what does the statement " Nityayukta Upasate "

> mean? Does'nt it mean that the devotional service

> never stops? Or is there any other interpretation to

> that verse?

>

> Also before that verse Krishna says " Bhajanty

> Ananya Manaso " meaning " renders devotional service

> without any hindrance "

>

> I will just quote the two verses:

>

> [ Mahatmanas Tu Mam Partha Daivim Prakrtim

> Aashrita

> Bhajanty Ananya Manaso Jnatva Buta Aadim Avyayam

>

> " O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the

> great souls, are under the protection of the divine

> nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service

> because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of

> Godhead, original and inexhaustible. " - BG 9:13]

>

> [ Satatam Kirtayanto Mam, Yatantashcha Drdhavrata

> Namasyantashcha Mam Bhaktya, Nityayukta Upasate

> " Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with

> great determination, bowing down before Me, these

> great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion. " -

> BG 9:14 ]

>

> I will be very happy to see your responses.

>

> Thank you so much once again.

>

> Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama!

>

> ~Krishnadasa.

> ----

>

> Now, by reading this mail of yours I remember that

> beautiful prayer from Bilvamangala Thakura, the

> eternal devotee of the Lord, where he says:

> ---

> [ Bhaktis Tvayi Sthiratara Bhagavan Yadi Syaat

> Daivena Na Phalati Divya Kishora Murti

> Mukti Swayam Mukulitanjali Sevate Asman

> Dharma Aartha Kaama Gatayah Samayah Pratiksha

>

> " My dear Lord, if I am engaged in firm devotional

> service unto You, then I can very easily perceive

> Your transcendental youthful form. And as far as

> liberation is concerned, she stands at my door with

> folded hands, waiting to serve me, and all material

> conveniences of religiosity, economic development,

> and sense gratification stand with her. " - Shree

> Krishna Karnamrta 107 ]

> ---

>

> My koti koti pranams to KVG ji, Sarojaji and all

> the bhaktas here and also to the lotus feet of Shree

> Guruvayurappan.

>

> Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama!

>

> ~Krishnadasa.

>

> " K.V Gopalakrishna " <gopalakrishna.kv

> wrote:

> Dear all,

> Radhe Krishna!

> A topic rightly initiated by Sri Krishnadasa has

> really evoked so much of thought and has set me

> thinking deeper and deeper. The earlier mail I had

> sent was just a random thought and I just scribbled

> something without thinking this way or the other.

> But when persons of the calibre of Sri Ganapathy

> Raman and Smt. Saroja Ramanujam have indicated their

> approval of the thoughts that passed through my

> mind, I feel much more confident in my philosophy

> which has gone many times over in making my Bhakti

> stronger. For overcoming the realm of Maya, as the

> Lord has said, we have to pray only to Lord Krishna

> with all humility and softness or tenderness of

> mind. Such tenderness of mind can never come if

> one follows Jnanayoga and Karmayoga. It may take

> many Janmas or may happen in one Janma itself that a

> person gets that sameness of thinking, the

> endorsement of the fact thar everything we see is

> the manifestation of Brahman. Even if it takes

> more Janmas, it doesn't matter,

> provided the remembrance of Guruvayoorappan

> continues to stay in our minds, like Gajendra. But

> the very remembrance of the Lord is so pleasant and

> gives us that bliss, which the Prachetas enjoyed by

> performing thousand years of penance. This is why

> Bhakti is always superior to Mukti. Once the drop

> becomes part of the ocean, it is lost in the ocean.

> If it continues to stay as a drop, it can have its

> own properties, and can still look at the ocean and

> enjoy the sight of the ocean. So let us pray to

> Guruvayoorappan to augment our Bhakti to reach its

> zenith and let us stay as His Bhaktas for ever,

> without merging us with Him.

>

> Love

> KVG

>

> Saroja Ramanujam wrote: It is perfectly true

> what KVG said about the brahmadhrshti that till we

> reach the state of sthithaprajna we have to see

> dvaita only and hence bhakthimarga is the best. The

> power of upasana has been stressed in the upanishads

> and Ramanuja defines dhyana as consistent and

> persistent remembrance ofthe object of

> meditation,dhruvasmrthi.Devotion on the chosen ideal

> in the form of dhruvasmrthi will lead to the higher

> state of seeing the Lord in all, 'vasudevassarvam

> ithi' which may take many lives as GR has put it

> There is a sloka ,I think it is attributed to

> Hanuman, but I am not sure, perhaps KVG or someone

> might know, It goes like this:' dehabuddhyaa thu

> daasoham jeevabuddhyaa thvadhamsakah,athmabuddhyaa

> thvamevaaham ithi me nischitha mathih.'This means,

> 'when I think of myself as an embodied being I am

> your servant. When I see consider myself as an

> individual soul I am part ofyou. But when I think of

> myself as the Athman I am one with you.This

> is my firm conviction. " But the first step towards

> the blossoming of bhakthi into paraabhakthi is

> trying to see the Lord as not only limited in the

> particular form of worship and trying to see Him

> beyond the form and name.This will finally result in

> the perception of vaasudevassarvam.Of course his may

> may take many janma. But a devotee who has become a

> prapanna is not worried on that score. He has

> surrendered to the Lord and thus it becomes the

> burden of HIm to lead the prapanna by hand. The

> culmination of bhakthi results only when there is

> complete merging with theLord, as Bhagavatha says

> 'those who love Hari ,indeed lose themselves in

> Hari, yaanthi thanmayathaam Hareh.'The love of the

> gopis of Krishna is described by the Lord Himself

> as'Yathaa samaadhou munayo abdhithoye nadhyah

> pravishtaa iva naamarupe,just as the sages absorbed

> in samadhi and the rivers that enter the ocean are

> not distinguised by name and form.'

> Thus the love of Godis nothing but the love of the

> absolute reality or the innerself of man which

> appears in theinitial stages as something different

> and infinitely superior. Spiritual progress thus

> begins with separating God from the individual soul

> as the one possessed of infinite auspicious

> qualities, anathakalyanagunavisishta, and gradually

> the devotee acquires the knowledge that he is the

> part and parcel of the Lord and finally realisesHim

> as his own inner self.This is paraabhakthi and after

> attaining it also sages lik eNarada kee their

> individuality at will in order to enjoy the bliss of

> the Divine Self as it is better to taste sugar than

> to become one with it. But it is their will to do so

> and they can enjoy Him in bothways eithir by merging

> or by being separate.

> Saroja ramanujam

>

> " K.V Gopalakrishna " <gopalakrishna.kv

> wrote:

> Dear all,

> Radhe Krishna!

> Having read with great interest, a very interesting

> topic and the answers from two scholars, I feel too

> small to make a rejoinder to it; but I thought I too

> would like to add little bit of my own humble, if

> not scholarly contribution.

>

> " Ekam eva advitheeyam Brahma " . Fine. Brahman is

> without a second. It is unique in character. All

> that we see around us is Brahman. I am not going

> by the " Nethi, Nethi " definition of Brahman by

> negation of everything else. Let us say, " Sarvam

> Khalu idam Brahma " . Even assuming that as the

> gospel truth, one can see the entire universe as

> Brahman, only after self-realisation. So far as we

> are all under the realm of Maya, the

> " Avarana-sakthi "

=== message truncated ===

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers./

October 29, 2006

Bhakti is the pathway to Mukti no doubt. Bhakti will automatically

lead to salvation when it reaches its zenith, even if one asks for

Mukti or not. Krishna Himself says, "My Bhaktas do not ask for

Mukti, because they like to enjoy the Bhakti to me and continue to be

Bhaktas alone." The fruit, when it becomes ripe and its stalk dries

up, will separate itself from the plant (Urvarukam iva bandhanat), and

merge with the primordial nature; similarly, the Jivatman also, when

the appropriate time comes, will merge with the Paramatman. It is

said that many bhaktas dont pray for mukti, but pray only for Bhakti

for the same reason, that they enjoy the bliss of praising the Lord for

as long a time as possible. The Prachetas is an example , when they

did penance for thousands of years, standing in neck-deep waters in the

Rudra-theertham, as they were not anxious to get quick salvation,

whereas in Dhruva's case, he wanted the Lord appear before him as

quickly as possible to redress his woes. This does not mean that the

Bhakti of the Prachetas was in any way inferior to that of Dhruva, or

that Dhruva's Bhakti was superior to that of the Prachetas. There is

no yard-stick for Bhakti. The Lord alone know how deep-seated each

person's Bhakti is, and dispenses the results as He considers fit in

each case. Inscrutable are the ways of the Lord..

The fruit, when it is ripe, does not bother whether it is eaten by a

bird or animal or human being. It is self-less. Similarly a Bhakta

also does not worry why he has not got Mukti so far. He knows that

the Lord is above all, and knows His job. and he also knows that the

Lord's ways are mysterious and beyond human comprehension. So he

continues in a state of "Saranagati" and does not worry about himself

in the least. Even as a Jeevan-mukta, he continues to be a Bhakta and

a normal living being, continuing his duties for the welfare of mankind.

These are some thoughts which passed through my mind. I hope it makes

some sense.

Love

KVG

balagopal ramakrishnan wrote:

HARI AUM

This leads to some fundamental principles.

If ‘Mukthi’ is not be reached what is the ‘Goal’ of

‘Bhakthi’? Does ‘bhakthi’ remain just for the sake of

‘bhakthi’? If so what is ‘bhakthi’? Once the fruit is

ripe, is it befitting for the fruit to remain ripe and

not serve its selfless purpose of being eaten by

another and enjoy the fruit? If it does not happen

won’t the ‘nature’ (prakriti) do something

(‘prakritistwam niyokshathi) with the fruit? Will it

continue to stay ripe or start decaying? What are the

travails of the ‘drop’ remining as a ‘drop’ and does

not look forward to merge with the ‘ocean’? Can it

remain so enjoying the bliss of ‘bhakthi’? Is that act

selfish or sefless? Won’t the sunlight, heat and wind

put the ‘drop’ back in the cycle of evolution? Won’t

it evaporate and begin the next cycle of ‘birth’ and

‘death’?

I think the only thing that is true of existente is

‘CHANGE’. Nature has structured this eternal ‘quality’

to all those which ‘exists’ outside the ‘one’ i.e. in

duality. So trying to remain static and enjoying the

‘state’, even if it is ‘bliss’ is termed as

‘indulgence’ and will attract the laws of ‘duality’

namely ‘pleasure’ and ‘pain’.

So shall we not move on and give way, place and

opportunity for others?

This the only way we can make the saying’LOKAHA

SAMASTHAHA SUKHINO BHAVANTHU’ meaningful.

‘kaloasmi lokashayadkrut pravrutho lokan

samahruthumihapravrutha

rhithepitwam na bhavishyanthisarve yeh avasthithaha

prathyaneekoshu yodha’

(verse 32 Chapter 11)

Regards

Balagopal

NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA

--- Krishna Dasa <krishnadasa77 >

wrote:

> Thank you very much KVGji for this mail from you.

> Actually I was going to send this mail to your

> previous mail but it did not go through as there was

> some problem with the way my email address was

> set-up. Anyway, I am pasting it here again

>

> ---

>

> Dear KVGji & Sarojaji,

>

> Thank you so much for both your replies. I can see

> the humility with which you both have written this

> mail, even though you have responded to the query in

> so scholarly & sublime way.

>

> But, what does the statement "Nityayukta Upasate"

> mean? Does'nt it mean that the devotional service

> never stops? Or is there any other interpretation to

> that verse?

>

> Also before that verse Krishna says "Bhajanty

> Ananya Manaso" meaning "renders devotional service

> without any hindrance"

>

> I will just quote the two verses:

>

> [ Mahatmanas Tu Mam Partha Daivim Prakrtim

> Aashrita

> Bhajanty Ananya Manaso Jnatva Buta Aadim Avyayam

>

> "O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the

> great souls, are under the protection of the divine

> nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service

> because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of

> Godhead, original and inexhaustible." - BG 9:13]

>

> [ Satatam Kirtayanto Mam, Yatantashcha Drdhavrata

> Namasyantashcha Mam Bhaktya, Nityayukta Upasate

> "Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with

> great determination, bowing down before Me, these

> great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion." -

> BG 9:14 ]

>

> I will be very happy to see your responses.

>

> Thank you so much once again.

>

> Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama!

>

> ~Krishnadasa.

> ----

>

> Now, by reading this mail of yours I remember that

> beautiful prayer from Bilvamangala Thakura, the

> eternal devotee of the Lord, where he says:

> ---

> [ Bhaktis Tvayi Sthiratara Bhagavan Yadi Syaat

> Daivena Na Phalati Divya Kishora Murti

> Mukti Swayam Mukulitanjali Sevate Asman

> Dharma Aartha Kaama Gatayah Samayah Pratiksha

>

> "My dear Lord, if I am engaged in firm devotional

> service unto You, then I can very easily perceive

> Your transcendental youthful form. And as far as

> liberation is concerned, she stands at my door with

> folded hands, waiting to serve me, and all material

> conveniences of religiosity, economic development,

> and sense gratification stand with her." - Shree

> Krishna Karnamrta 107 ]

> ---

>

> My koti koti pranams to KVG ji, Sarojaji and all

> the bhaktas here and also to the lotus feet of Shree

> Guruvayurappan.

>

> Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama!

>

> ~Krishnadasa.

>

> "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv >

> wrote:

> Dear all,

> Radhe Krishna!

> A topic rightly initiated by Sri Krishnadasa has

> really evoked so much of thought and has set me

> thinking deeper and deeper. The earlier mail I had

> sent was just a random thought and I just scribbled

> something without thinking this way or the other.

> But when persons of the calibre of Sri Ganapathy

> Raman and Smt. Saroja Ramanujam have indicated their

> approval of the thoughts that passed through my

> mind, I feel much more confident in my philosophy

> which has gone many times over in making my Bhakti

> stronger. For overcoming the realm of Maya, as the

> Lord has said, we have to pray only to Lord Krishna

> with all humility and softness or tenderness of

> mind. Such tenderness of mind can never come if

> one follows Jnanayoga and Karmayoga. It may take

> many Janmas or may happen in one Janma itself that a

> person gets that sameness of thinking, the

> endorsement of the fact thar everything we see is

> the manifestation of Brahman. Even if it takes

> more Janmas, it doesn't matter,

> provided the remembrance of Guruvayoorappan

> continues to stay in our minds, like Gajendra. But

> the very remembrance of the Lord is so pleasant and

> gives us that bliss, which the Prachetas enjoyed by

> performing thousand years of penance. This is why

> Bhakti is always superior to Mukti. Once the drop

> becomes part of the ocean, it is lost in the ocean.

> If it continues to stay as a drop, it can have its

> own properties, and can still look at the ocean and

> enjoy the sight of the ocean. So let us pray to

> Guruvayoorappan to augment our Bhakti to reach its

> zenith and let us stay as His Bhaktas for ever,

> without merging us with Him.

>

> Love

> KVG

>

> Saroja Ramanujam wrote: It is perfectly true

> what KVG said about the brahmadhrshti that till we

> reach the state of sthithaprajna we have to see

> dvaita only and hence bhakthimarga is the best. The

> power of upasana has been stressed in the upanishads

> and Ramanuja defines dhyana as consistent and

> persistent remembrance ofthe object of

> meditation,dhruvasmrthi.Devotion on the chosen ideal

> in the form of dhruvasmrthi will lead to the higher

> state of seeing the Lord in all, 'vasudevassarvam

> ithi' which may take many lives as GR has put it

> There is a sloka ,I think it is attributed to

> Hanuman, but I am not sure, perhaps KVG or someone

> might know, It goes like this:' dehabuddhyaa thu

> daasoham jeevabuddhyaa thvadhamsakah,athmabuddhyaa

> thvamevaaham ithi me nischitha mathih.'This means,

> 'when I think of myself as an embodied being I am

> your servant. When I see consider myself as an

> individual soul I am part ofyou. But when I think of

> myself as the Athman I am one with you.This

> is my firm conviction."But the first step towards

> the blossoming of bhakthi into paraabhakthi is

> trying to see the Lord as not only limited in the

> particular form of worship and trying to see Him

> beyond the form and name.This will finally result in

> the perception of vaasudevassarvam.Of course his may

> may take many janma. But a devotee who has become a

> prapanna is not worried on that score. He has

> surrendered to the Lord and thus it becomes the

> burden of HIm to lead the prapanna by hand. The

> culmination of bhakthi results only when there is

> complete merging with theLord, as Bhagavatha says

> 'those who love Hari ,indeed lose themselves in

> Hari, yaanthi thanmayathaam Hareh.'The love of the

> gopis of Krishna is described by the Lord Himself

> as'Yathaa samaadhou munayo abdhithoye nadhyah

> pravishtaa iva naamarupe,just as the sages absorbed

> in samadhi and the rivers that enter the ocean are

> not distinguised by name and form.'

> Thus the love of Godis nothing but the love of the

> absolute reality or the innerself of man which

> appears in theinitial stages as something different

> and infinitely superior. Spiritual progress thus

> begins with separating God from the individual soul

> as the one possessed of infinite auspicious

> qualities, anathakalyanagunavisishta, and gradually

> the devotee acquires the knowledge that he is the

> part and parcel of the Lord and finally realisesHim

> as his own inner self.This is paraabhakthi and after

> attaining it also sages lik eNarada kee their

> individuality at will in order to enjoy the bliss of

> the Divine Self as it is better to taste sugar than

> to become one with it. But it is their will to do so

> and they can enjoy Him in bothways eithir by merging

> or by being separate.

> Saroja ramanujam

>

> "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv >

> wrote:

> Dear all,

> Radhe Krishna!

> Having read with great interest, a very interesting

> topic and the answers from two scholars, I feel too

> small to make a rejoinder to it; but I thought I too

> would like to add little bit of my own humble, if

> not scholarly contribution.

>

> "Ekam eva advitheeyam Brahma". Fine. Brahman is

> without a second. It is unique in character. All

> that we see around us is Brahman. I am not going

> by the "Nethi, Nethi" definition of Brahman by

> negation of everything else. Let us say, "Sarvam

> Khalu idam Brahma". Even assuming that as the

> gospel truth, one can see the entire universe as

> Brahman, only after self-realisation. So far as we

> are all under the realm of Maya, the

> "Avarana-sakthi"

=== message truncated ===

________

India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new

http://in.answers./

October 30, 2006

Excellent exposition saroja ramanujam"K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: Bhakti is the pathway to Mukti no doubt. Bhakti will automatically lead to salvation when it reaches its zenith, even if one asks for Mukti or not. Krishna Himself says, "My Bhaktas do not ask for Mukti, because they like to enjoy the Bhakti to me and continue to be Bhaktas alone." The fruit, when it becomes ripe and its stalk dries up, will separate itself from the plant

(Urvarukam iva bandhanat), and merge with the primordial nature; similarly, the Jivatman also, when the appropriate time comes, will merge with the Paramatman. It is said that many bhaktas dont pray for mukti, but pray only for Bhakti for the same reason, that they enjoy the bliss of praising the Lord for as long a time as possible. The Prachetas is an example , when they did penance for thousands of years, standing in neck-deep waters in the Rudra-theertham, as they were not anxious to get quick salvation, whereas in Dhruva's case, he wanted the Lord appear before him as quickly as possible to redress his woes. This does not mean that the Bhakti of the Prachetas was in any way inferior to that of Dhruva, or that Dhruva's Bhakti was superior to that of the Prachetas. There is no yard-stick for Bhakti. The Lord alone know how deep-seated each person's Bhakti is, and dispenses the results as He

considers fit in each case. Inscrutable are the ways of the Lord.. The fruit, when it is ripe, does not bother whether it is eaten by a bird or animal or human being. It is self-less. Similarly a Bhakta also does not worry why he has not got Mukti so far. He knows that the Lord is above all, and knows His job. and he also knows that the Lord's ways are mysterious and beyond human comprehension. So he continues in a state of "Saranagati" and does not worry about himself in the least. Even as a Jeevan-mukta, he continues to be a Bhakta and a normal living being, continuing his duties for the welfare of mankind.These are some thoughts which passed through my mind. I hope it makes some sense.LoveKVGbalagopal ramakrishnan wrote: HARI AUMThis leads to some fundamental principles.If â€˜Mukthiâ€™ is not be reached what is the â€˜Goalâ€™ ofâ€˜Bhakthiâ€™? Does â€˜bhakthiâ€™ remain just for the sake ofâ€˜bhakthiâ€™? If so what is â€˜bhakthiâ€™? Once the fruit isripe, is it befitting for the fruit to remain ripe andnot serve its selfless purpose of being eaten byanother and enjoy the fruit? If it does not happen wonâ€™t the â€˜natureâ€™ (prakriti) do something(â€˜prakritistwam niyokshathi) with the fruit? Will itcontinue to stay ripe or start decaying? What are thetravails of the â€˜dropâ€™ remining as a â€˜dropâ€™ and doesnot look forward to merge with the â€˜oceanâ€™? Can itremain so enjoying the bliss of â€˜bhakthiâ€™? Is that actselfish or sefless? Wonâ€™t the sunlight, heat and windput the â€˜dropâ€™ back in the cycle of evolution? Wonâ€™tit evaporate and begin the next cycle of â€˜birthâ€™

andâ€˜deathâ€™?I think the only thing that is true of existente isâ€˜CHANGEâ€™. Nature has structured this eternal â€˜qualityâ€™to all those which â€˜existsâ€™ outside the â€˜oneâ€™ i.e. induality. So trying to remain static and enjoying theâ€˜stateâ€™, even if it is â€˜blissâ€™ is termed asâ€˜indulgenceâ€™ and will attract the laws of â€˜dualityâ€™namely â€˜pleasureâ€™ and â€˜painâ€™. So shall we not move on and give way, place andopportunity for others?This the only way we can make the sayingâ€™LOKAHASAMASTHAHA SUKHINO BHAVANTHUâ€™ meaningful. â€˜kaloasmi lokashayadkrut pravrutho lokansamahruthumihapravrutharhithepitwam na bhavishyanthisarve yeh avasthithahaprathyaneekoshu yodhaâ€™(verse 32 Chapter 11)RegardsBalagopalNARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA --- Krishna Dasa <krishnadasa77 >

wrote:> Thank you very much KVGji for this mail from you.> Actually I was going to send this mail to your> previous mail but it did not go through as there was> some problem with the way my email address was> set-up. Anyway, I am pasting it here again> > ---> > Dear KVGji & Sarojaji,> > Thank you so much for both your replies. I can see> the humility with which you both have written this> mail, even though you have responded to the query in> so scholarly & sublime way.> > But, what does the statement "Nityayukta Upasate"> mean? Does'nt it mean that the devotional service> never stops? Or is there any other interpretation to> that verse?> > Also before that verse Krishna says "Bhajanty> Ananya Manaso" meaning "renders devotional service> without any hindrance"> > I will just quote the two

verses:> > [ Mahatmanas Tu Mam Partha Daivim Prakrtim> Aashrita> Bhajanty Ananya Manaso Jnatva Buta Aadim Avyayam> > "O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the> great souls, are under the protection of the divine> nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service> because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of> Godhead, original and inexhaustible." - BG 9:13]> > [ Satatam Kirtayanto Mam, Yatantashcha Drdhavrata> Namasyantashcha Mam Bhaktya, Nityayukta Upasate> "Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with> great determination, bowing down before Me, these> great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion." -> BG 9:14 ]> > I will be very happy to see your responses.> > Thank you so much once again. > > Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama!> > ~Krishnadasa.> ----> > Now, by

reading this mail of yours I remember that> beautiful prayer from Bilvamangala Thakura, the> eternal devotee of the Lord, where he says:> ---> [ Bhaktis Tvayi Sthiratara Bhagavan Yadi Syaat> Daivena Na Phalati Divya Kishora Murti> Mukti Swayam Mukulitanjali Sevate Asman> Dharma Aartha Kaama Gatayah Samayah Pratiksha> > "My dear Lord, if I am engaged in firm devotional> service unto You, then I can very easily perceive> Your transcendental youthful form. And as far as> liberation is concerned, she stands at my door with> folded hands, waiting to serve me, and all material> conveniences of religiosity, economic development,> and sense gratification stand with her." - Shree> Krishna Karnamrta 107 ]> ---> > My koti koti pranams to KVG ji, Sarojaji and all> the bhaktas here and also to the lotus feet of Shree> Guruvayurappan.>

> Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama!> > ~Krishnadasa.> > > > "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv >> wrote:> Dear all,> Radhe Krishna!> A topic rightly initiated by Sri Krishnadasa has> really evoked so much of thought and has set me> thinking deeper and deeper. The earlier mail I had> sent was just a random thought and I just scribbled> something without thinking this way or the other. > But when persons of the calibre of Sri Ganapathy> Raman and Smt. Saroja Ramanujam have indicated their> approval of the thoughts that passed through my> mind, I feel much more confident in my philosophy> which has gone many times over in making my Bhakti> stronger. For overcoming the realm of Maya, as the> Lord has said, we have to pray only to Lord Krishna>

with all humility and softness or tenderness of> mind. Such tenderness of mind can never come if> one follows Jnanayoga and Karmayoga. It may take> many Janmas or may happen in one Janma itself that a> person gets that sameness of thinking, the> endorsement of the fact thar everything we see is> the manifestation of Brahman. Even if it takes> more Janmas, it doesn't matter,> provided the remembrance of Guruvayoorappan> continues to stay in our minds, like Gajendra. But> the very remembrance of the Lord is so pleasant and> gives us that bliss, which the Prachetas enjoyed by> performing thousand years of penance. This is why> Bhakti is always superior to Mukti. Once the drop> becomes part of the ocean, it is lost in the ocean. > If it continues to stay as a drop, it can have its> own properties, and can still look at the ocean and> enjoy the sight of the

ocean. So let us pray to> Guruvayoorappan to augment our Bhakti to reach its> zenith and let us stay as His Bhaktas for ever,> without merging us with Him.> > Love> KVG> > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote: It is perfectly true> what KVG said about the brahmadhrshti that till we> reach the state of sthithaprajna we have to see> dvaita only and hence bhakthimarga is the best. The> power of upasana has been stressed in the upanishads> and Ramanuja defines dhyana as consistent and> persistent remembrance ofthe object of> meditation,dhruvasmrthi.Devotion on the chosen ideal> in the form of dhruvasmrthi will lead to the higher> state of seeing the Lord in all, 'vasudevassarvam> ithi' which may take many lives as GR has put it> There is a sloka ,I think it is attributed to> Hanuman, but I am not sure, perhaps KVG or

someone> might know, It goes like this:' dehabuddhyaa thu> daasoham jeevabuddhyaa thvadhamsakah,athmabuddhyaa> thvamevaaham ithi me nischitha mathih.'This means,> 'when I think of myself as an embodied being I am> your servant. When I see consider myself as an> individual soul I am part ofyou. But when I think of> myself as the Athman I am one with you.This> is my firm conviction."But the first step towards> the blossoming of bhakthi into paraabhakthi is> trying to see the Lord as not only limited in the> particular form of worship and trying to see Him> beyond the form and name.This will finally result in> the perception of vaasudevassarvam.Of course his may> may take many janma. But a devotee who has become a> prapanna is not worried on that score. He has> surrendered to the Lord and thus it becomes the> burden of HIm to lead the prapanna

by hand. The> culmination of bhakthi results only when there is> complete merging with theLord, as Bhagavatha says> 'those who love Hari ,indeed lose themselves in> Hari, yaanthi thanmayathaam Hareh.'The love of the> gopis of Krishna is described by the Lord Himself> as'Yathaa samaadhou munayo abdhithoye nadhyah> pravishtaa iva naamarupe,just as the sages absorbed> in samadhi and the rivers that enter the ocean are> not distinguised by name and form.'> Thus the love of Godis nothing but the love of the> absolute reality or the innerself of man which> appears in theinitial stages as something different> and infinitely superior. Spiritual progress thus> begins with separating God from the individual soul> as the one possessed of infinite auspicious> qualities, anathakalyanagunavisishta, and gradually> the devotee acquires the knowledge that he is

the> part and parcel of the Lord and finally realisesHim> as his own inner self.This is paraabhakthi and after> attaining it also sages lik eNarada kee their> individuality at will in order to enjoy the bliss of> the Divine Self as it is better to taste sugar than> to become one with it. But it is their will to do so> and they can enjoy Him in bothways eithir by merging> or by being separate.> Saroja ramanujam> > > "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv >> wrote:> Dear all,> Radhe Krishna!> Having read with great interest, a very interesting> topic and the answers from two scholars, I feel too> small to make a rejoinder to it; but I thought I too> would like to add little bit of my own humble, if> not scholarly contribution.> > "Ekam eva advitheeyam

Brahma". Fine. Brahman is> without a second. It is unique in character. All> that we see around us is Brahman. I am not going> by the "Nethi, Nethi" definition of Brahman by> negation of everything else. Let us say, "Sarvam> Khalu idam Brahma". Even assuming that as the> gospel truth, one can see the entire universe as> Brahman, only after self-realisation. So far as we> are all under the realm of Maya, the> "Avarana-sakthi" === message truncated ===________ India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something newhttp://in.answers./ May god bless you, Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit.

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October 30, 2006

Very well said KVGji. It just goes to show why one of the devotees in this group has proclaimed publicly that you are his Guru. Thank you so much for giving us your association. Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama! ~Krishnadasa."K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: Bhakti is the pathway to Mukti no doubt. Bhakti will automatically lead to salvation when it reaches its zenith, even if one asks for Mukti

or not. Krishna Himself says, "My Bhaktas do not ask for Mukti, because they like to enjoy the Bhakti to me and continue to be Bhaktas alone." The fruit, when it becomes ripe and its stalk dries up, will separate itself from the plant (Urvarukam iva bandhanat), and merge with the primordial nature; similarly, the Jivatman also, when the appropriate time comes, will merge with the Paramatman. It is said that many bhaktas dont pray for mukti, but pray only for Bhakti for the same reason, that they enjoy the bliss of praising the Lord for as long a time as possible. The Prachetas is an example , when they did penance for thousands of years, standing in neck-deep waters in the Rudra-theertham, as they were not anxious to get quick salvation, whereas in Dhruva's case, he wanted the Lord appear before him as quickly as possible to redress his woes. This does not mean that the Bhakti of the

Prachetas was in any way inferior to that of Dhruva, or that Dhruva's Bhakti was superior to that of the Prachetas. There is no yard-stick for Bhakti. The Lord alone know how deep-seated each person's Bhakti is, and dispenses the results as He considers fit in each case. Inscrutable are the ways of the Lord.. The fruit, when it is ripe, does not bother whether it is eaten by a bird or animal or human being. It is self-less. Similarly a Bhakta also does not worry why he has not got Mukti so far. He knows that the Lord is above all, and knows His job. and he also knows that the Lord's ways are mysterious and beyond human comprehension. So he continues in a state of "Saranagati" and does not worry about himself in the least. Even as a Jeevan-mukta, he continues to be a Bhakta and a normal living being, continuing his duties for the welfare of

mankind.These are some thoughts which passed through my mind. I hope it makes some sense.LoveKVGbalagopal ramakrishnan wrote: HARI AUMThis leads to some fundamental principles.If ‘Mukthi’ is not be reached what is the ‘Goal’ of‘Bhakthi’? Does ‘bhakthi’ remain just for the sake of‘bhakthi’? If so what is ‘bhakthi’? Once the fruit isripe, is it befitting for the fruit to remain ripe andnot serve its selfless purpose of being eaten byanother and enjoy the fruit? If it does not happen won’t the ‘nature’ (prakriti) do something(‘prakritistwam niyokshathi) with the fruit? Will itcontinue to stay ripe or start decaying? What are thetravails of the ‘drop’ remining as a ‘drop’ and doesnot look forward to merge with the ‘ocean’? Can itremain so

enjoying the bliss of ‘bhakthi’? Is that actselfish or sefless? Won’t the sunlight, heat and windput the ‘drop’ back in the cycle of evolution? Won’tit evaporate and begin the next cycle of ‘birth’ and‘death’?I think the only thing that is true of existente is‘CHANGE’. Nature has structured this eternal ‘quality’to all those which ‘exists’ outside the ‘one’ i.e. induality. So trying to remain static and enjoying the‘state’, even if it is ‘bliss’ is termed as‘indulgence’ and will attract the laws of ‘duality’namely ‘pleasure’ and ‘pain’. So shall we not move on and give way, place andopportunity for others?This the only way we can make the saying’LOKAHASAMASTHAHA SUKHINO BHAVANTHU’ meaningful. ‘kaloasmi lokashayadkrut pravrutho lokansamahruthumihapravrutharhithepitwam na bhavishyanthisarve yeh avasthithahaprathyaneekoshu yodha’(verse 32 Chapter

11)RegardsBalagopalNARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA --- Krishna Dasa <krishnadasa77 > wrote:> Thank you very much KVGji for this mail from you.> Actually I was going to send this mail to your> previous mail but it did not go through as there was> some problem with the way my email address was> set-up. Anyway, I am pasting it here again> > ---> > Dear KVGji & Sarojaji,> > Thank you so much for both your replies. I can see> the humility with which you both have written this> mail, even though you have responded to the query in> so scholarly & sublime way.> > But, what does the statement "Nityayukta Upasate"> mean? Does'nt it mean that the devotional service> never stops? Or is there any other interpretation to> that verse?> >

Also before that verse Krishna says "Bhajanty> Ananya Manaso" meaning "renders devotional service> without any hindrance"> > I will just quote the two verses:> > [ Mahatmanas Tu Mam Partha Daivim Prakrtim> Aashrita> Bhajanty Ananya Manaso Jnatva Buta Aadim Avyayam> > "O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the> great souls, are under the protection of the divine> nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service> because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of> Godhead, original and inexhaustible." - BG 9:13]> > [ Satatam Kirtayanto Mam, Yatantashcha Drdhavrata> Namasyantashcha Mam Bhaktya, Nityayukta Upasate> "Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with> great determination, bowing down before Me, these> great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion." -> BG 9:14 ]> > I will be very happy to see

your responses.> > Thank you so much once again. > > Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama!> > ~Krishnadasa.> ----> > Now, by reading this mail of yours I remember that> beautiful prayer from Bilvamangala Thakura, the> eternal devotee of the Lord, where he says:> ---> [ Bhaktis Tvayi Sthiratara Bhagavan Yadi Syaat> Daivena Na Phalati Divya Kishora Murti> Mukti Swayam Mukulitanjali Sevate Asman> Dharma Aartha Kaama Gatayah Samayah Pratiksha> > "My dear Lord, if I am engaged in firm devotional> service unto You, then I can very easily perceive> Your transcendental youthful form. And as far as> liberation is concerned, she stands at my door with> folded hands, waiting to serve me, and all material> conveniences of religiosity, economic development,> and sense gratification stand with her." - Shree> Krishna

Karnamrta 107 ]> ---> > My koti koti pranams to KVG ji, Sarojaji and all> the bhaktas here and also to the lotus feet of Shree> Guruvayurappan.> > Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama!> > ~Krishnadasa.> > > > "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv >> wrote:> Dear all,> Radhe Krishna!> A topic rightly initiated by Sri Krishnadasa has> really evoked so much of thought and has set me> thinking deeper and deeper. The earlier mail I had> sent was just a random thought and I just scribbled> something without thinking this way or the other. > But when persons of the calibre of Sri Ganapathy> Raman and Smt. Saroja Ramanujam have indicated their> approval of the thoughts that passed through my> mind, I feel much more confident in my

philosophy> which has gone many times over in making my Bhakti> stronger. For overcoming the realm of Maya, as the> Lord has said, we have to pray only to Lord Krishna> with all humility and softness or tenderness of> mind. Such tenderness of mind can never come if> one follows Jnanayoga and Karmayoga. It may take> many Janmas or may happen in one Janma itself that a> person gets that sameness of thinking, the> endorsement of the fact thar everything we see is> the manifestation of Brahman. Even if it takes> more Janmas, it doesn't matter,> provided the remembrance of Guruvayoorappan> continues to stay in our minds, like Gajendra. But> the very remembrance of the Lord is so pleasant and> gives us that bliss, which the Prachetas enjoyed by> performing thousand years of penance. This is why> Bhakti is always superior to Mukti. Once the drop> becomes

part of the ocean, it is lost in the ocean. > If it continues to stay as a drop, it can have its> own properties, and can still look at the ocean and> enjoy the sight of the ocean. So let us pray to> Guruvayoorappan to augment our Bhakti to reach its> zenith and let us stay as His Bhaktas for ever,> without merging us with Him.> > Love> KVG> > > > Saroja Ramanujam wrote: It is perfectly true> what KVG said about the brahmadhrshti that till we> reach the state of sthithaprajna we have to see> dvaita only and hence bhakthimarga is the best. The> power of upasana has been stressed in the upanishads> and Ramanuja defines dhyana as consistent and> persistent remembrance ofthe object of> meditation,dhruvasmrthi.Devotion on the chosen ideal> in the form of dhruvasmrthi will lead to the higher> state of seeing the Lord in

all, 'vasudevassarvam> ithi' which may take many lives as GR has put it> There is a sloka ,I think it is attributed to> Hanuman, but I am not sure, perhaps KVG or someone> might know, It goes like this:' dehabuddhyaa thu> daasoham jeevabuddhyaa thvadhamsakah,athmabuddhyaa> thvamevaaham ithi me nischitha mathih.'This means,> 'when I think of myself as an embodied being I am> your servant. When I see consider myself as an> individual soul I am part ofyou. But when I think of> myself as the Athman I am one with you.This> is my firm conviction."But the first step towards> the blossoming of bhakthi into paraabhakthi is> trying to see the Lord as not only limited in the> particular form of worship and trying to see Him> beyond the form and name.This will finally result in> the perception of vaasudevassarvam.Of course his may> may take many janma.

But a devotee who has become a> prapanna is not worried on that score. He has> surrendered to the Lord and thus it becomes the> burden of HIm to lead the prapanna by hand. The> culmination of bhakthi results only when there is> complete merging with theLord, as Bhagavatha says> 'those who love Hari ,indeed lose themselves in> Hari, yaanthi thanmayathaam Hareh.'The love of the> gopis of Krishna is described by the Lord Himself> as'Yathaa samaadhou munayo abdhithoye nadhyah> pravishtaa iva naamarupe,just as the sages absorbed> in samadhi and the rivers that enter the ocean are> not distinguised by name and form.'> Thus the love of Godis nothing but the love of the> absolute reality or the innerself of man which> appears in theinitial stages as something different> and infinitely superior. Spiritual progress thus> begins with separating God from the

individual soul> as the one possessed of infinite auspicious> qualities, anathakalyanagunavisishta, and gradually> the devotee acquires the knowledge that he is the> part and parcel of the Lord and finally realisesHim> as his own inner self.This is paraabhakthi and after> attaining it also sages lik eNarada kee their> individuality at will in order to enjoy the bliss of> the Divine Self as it is better to taste sugar than> to become one with it. But it is their will to do so> and they can enjoy Him in bothways eithir by merging> or by being separate.> Saroja ramanujam> > > "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv >> wrote:> Dear all,> Radhe Krishna!> Having read with great interest, a very interesting> topic and the answers from two scholars, I feel

too> small to make a rejoinder to it; but I thought I too> would like to add little bit of my own humble, if> not scholarly contribution.> > "Ekam eva advitheeyam Brahma". Fine. Brahman is> without a second. It is unique in character. All> that we see around us is Brahman. I am not going> by the "Nethi, Nethi" definition of Brahman by> negation of everything else. Let us say, "Sarvam> Khalu idam Brahma". Even assuming that as the> gospel truth, one can see the entire universe as> Brahman, only after self-realisation. So far as we> are all under the realm of Maya, the> "Avarana-sakthi" === message truncated ===________ India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something newhttp://in.answers./

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October 31, 2006

Dear Sri. Krishnadasa,

Radhe Krishna!

What I (pardon me for use of the egoistic terminology) write is

spontaneous which comes from the bottom of my heart and is inspired

only by love to the Lord. I do not deserve such epithets. I pray

only that all should live happily, unhindered by the present day

terrorism and allied calamities.

May the Prematmaka-bhakti in each one of be enhanced to its peak.

Love

KVG

Krishna Dasa wrote:

Very well said KVGji. It just goes to show why one of the

devotees in this group has proclaimed publicly that you are his Guru.

Thank you so much for giving us your association.

Shree Krishna Sharanam Mama!

~Krishnadasa.

"K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv >

wrote:

Bhakti is the pathway to Mukti no doubt. Bhakti will

automatically lead to salvation when it reaches its zenith, even if one

asks for Mukti or not. Krishna Himself says, "My Bhaktas do not ask

for Mukti, because they like to enjoy the Bhakti to me and continue to

be Bhaktas alone." The fruit, when it becomes ripe and its stalk

dries up, will separate itself from the plant (Urvarukam iva

bandhanat), and merge with the primordial nature; similarly, the

Jivatman also, when the appropriate time comes, will merge with the

Paramatman. It is said that many bhaktas dont pray for mukti, but

pray only for Bhakti for the same reason, that they enjoy the bliss of

praising the Lord for as long a time as possible. The Prachetas is

an example , when they did penance for thousands of years, standing in

neck-deep waters in the Rudra-theertham, as they were not anxious to

get quick salvation, whereas in Dhruva's case, he wanted the Lord

appear before him as quickly as possible to redress his woes. This

does not mean that the Bhakti of the Prachetas was in any way inferior

to that of Dhruva, or that Dhruva's Bhakti was superior to that of the

Prachetas. There is no yard-stick for Bhakti. The Lord alone know

how deep-seated each person's Bhakti is, and dispenses the results as

He considers fit in each case. Inscrutable are the ways of the Lord..