[Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Fwd mail from Chandra Menon - Answering Questions of a Muslim for Defending Dharma

November 11, 2006

Itis verygood. Thank you Sunil for posting it. An eye opener for thos who criticise Hinduism superficially.Sunil Menon <menon_sunil wrote: Dear SuniljiOhm Narayanaya NamahI was quiet, for some days, not intentionally but due to bouncing of group messages from my mail box and themselves came to my rescue, asking me to visit a link to rectify by answering some questions. I ticked off some boxes there and here

I am back to my normalcy.. I mean the mails flowing into my mail box again. Is this something like Alzheimer in the computer system? I have to go back to our group message board to read the rest that I missed and will share my experience and views as prompted by you and Raj Vasudevan separately specially about Alzheimer. In the mean time I am forwarding the following that I got from another group which I want you to have a good look and if you consider it is good for our members at Guruvayoor group, please post the same. I know you are busy with the forthcoming issue of Navaneetham but knowing you well, I am sure you will have time to do this also. Thank you for your time. Until next timeChandra Sekharan Menon Namaste,This is a great response to questions by a Muslim that were made to criticize Hindus and followers of Dharma. What follows is the questions by the Muslim and then the extensive response made by Paramakaruna, one of

the members of the Vedic Friends Association. Please read and use this if every you need to help defend Dharma against those who wish to criticize it.Hari Om and Hari bol,Stephen Knapp Questions for Hindus1. If scientists have proven that the world will come to an end (Day of Judgement)what will happen to all the Vedas followers who believe they will be reborn into another life form _on this earth_ ? If there is no more life forms on this earth, what will happen to them ?2. If the Ancient Egyptians believed that their souls will go to Heaven, and the ancient Egyptians had Scripture centuries before the Vedas, then why do vedas followers claim their scripture is the oldest and therefore reincarnation is the right way ?3. Low caste members (untouchables) are born into certain families, for example, everyone born into the Juppy family, automatically becomes a untouch able. The woman in the Juppy family, Mrs. Juppy

is the aledged door way for bad people in previous lives who did not follow the Vedas to be born through Mrs. Juppy and hence be also a untouchable like the rest of Mrs. Juppy's family members.If Mrs. Juppy converts to Islam or Budduism which thousands are doing daily in India, what then will happen to the enterance gate for the non-Vedas followers to be reborn into?If there are no longer any untouchables becuase of either conversion or finacial fortune, then the entire caste system would collapse (as it slowly is doing thanks to the help of humanitary workers.) then there would no longer be a earthly Hell as the Vedas followers imagine, and no longer a reward or punishment, why then are the Vedas gods not maintaining there reward and punishment systems?Inconclusion, if there are Two doors, (door A) and (door B) the good go to (door A) and the bad go to (door B), what will happen to the bad if (door B) becomes sealed up or has disappeared ?4. If the Vedas

followers desire Unity, why is it that they enforce a system where their own members are divided into 5 levels where certain levels are not allowed to talk to, eat with, or even Touch Other Vedas followers ?5. How do Vedas followers claim they desire love and harmony when they think it is Absolute Justice that fellow Vedas followers includeing women and children die daily in India under the current caste system?6. How is it a punishment to become a animal or a insect or a tree if some people can consider this to be a reward rather than a punishment ? As said before, Insects are born They Fly, they Run, They Mate and they die, is that so bad ?For example, Ants have the about 200 times their own body weight strength, is it so bad to be that strong and Unified as ants are?7. How is it a reward to be born into the world as children are screaming and crying and live years before having any comprehension, and then to grow old and to again loose comprehension,

where is the reward to be reincarnated into that over and over?8. Why would God show us the Many stars and galaxsies if we are only limmited to this world over and over?Why would God Direct our Attension to Heaven if we are only limmited to earth ? Why would God make Heaven so appealing and so Majestic if we are never to leave from being born as earthly creatures over and over?9. Would it not be a better reward to come back as a dolphin who has a higher mental capabilites than humans ?10. What would happen if I smash up every one of the 400 different statues of Vedas gods, can those gods on earth protect themselves? What will be the worst thing that can happen to me, to be reborn as a Muslim :-) ?Copyright © Mohamed GhounemThe Authors give Full Permission to Use the Above Material As Your Own for Non-Profit Purposes.The ResponseDear Mohamed,First of all I wish you peace in the name of God, the Great, the All-Powerful, the All-Knowing,

and the All-Merciful.Peace is the greatest gift of God, and the greatest treasure by which one can understand and serve God. Some friends have forwarded me part of your article (which I paste at the end of my mail) and suggested that I should answer your questions. I am warmly inviting you to better study and understand the teachings of the Vedas, so that you will become able to better appreciate God's greatness.In fact from your questions and from your exposition of what you consider to be the "doctrine of Hinduism", it appears evident that you have only a very superficial and indirect knowledge of Hindu/Vedic philosophy and theology.I consider such shortcomings of yours to be due to your gathering information from unqualified, ignorant and confused people, and I warmly invite you to improve your understanding by first-hand knowledge, accompanied by the proper spirit of respectful inquiry. Whenever one wishes to learn

something, he must approach a qualified teacher and listen carefully and respectfully to the proper knowledge, then make sure he has understood correctly before passing judgments or criticising the genuine Knowledge.Unfortunately such an intelligent and mature approach is quite rare, and therefore many people are facing so many disasters at personal and collective level.It happens in all groups, and especially in these days we are all called to improve the situation for the sake of collective peace and cooperation among all. For example, people who do not really know the true and wonderful philosophy of Islam and the sublime qualities of Allah may tell you (and other people) very dangerous and immoral things such as follows: 1. indiscriminately destroying resources, killing, wounding and maiming innocent people, including women, children, and even Muslim brothers/sisters in terroristic acts is not only acceptable but it even accrues the

religious merits of a Muslim and is a bona fide religious activity2. all those who are not accepting Mohamed as the ONLY prophet are sub-human and have no rights; they are compared to untouchable stool and they should be killed without any hesitation, tortured, humiliated, enslaved, exploited and cheated; besides, the word given to a kefir has no meaning and it can be broken at any time without any bad consequence3. a woman who does not wear the veil can rightfully be raped, in fact religious merit is accrued to Muslims who rape "unworthy" women (sometimes as a punishment, even for someone else's faults); women who do not wear the veil can also rightfully be attacked, wounded, maimed, tortured, etc in the name of religion4. a raped woman (this means a person forced to sexual contact against her will) is automatically guilty of adultery (in virtue of the rape) and must therefore be punished by stoning, severe flogging etc (while the real offender almost

invariably goes free, unless 4 male who have been direct witnesses to the fact agree to accuse him in court)5. all women (including Muslim women) are never intended to have any human right but are no better than animals, so they are not entitled to any personal property, inheritance, capacity of witness or plaintiff in courts, legal rights in marriage/divorce/ motherhood etc6. black people (i.e. people who are not of Arabic race) always remain "inferior slaves" even if they embrace and follow Islam7. the very act of killing and eating innocent and harmless animals accrues one's religious merits8. the forms of human beings and animals created by God are impure and their depiction should be destroyed9. torturing and maiming children for minor offenses is a religious duty10. God is so limited and powerless that he can only have one name and one prophet, and since he is incapacitated to the point of being unable to take care of his own creation, men

need to take things into their hands and control the entire world in his name ? destroying according to their own foolish whim what God has created in his immense wisdom I am sure that you agree that the above propositions are totally anti-Islamic (in fact, blasphemous) and the people who propagate them, sometimes even posing as Muslim religious leaders, are actually creating a very bad name for Islam, which is instead a very civilised religion, worshiping a merciful God and preaching affection and solidarity between all those who have faith in the All-powerful God.And I am also sure that, as a sincere, active, faithful and concerned Muslim, you are already working very hard to purify your religious community from such wrong ideas wherever they appear and to challenge the false authority of those who propagate them. After expressing this important point, I wish to directly answer your questions: 1. If scientists have proven that

the world will come to an end (Day of Judgement)what will happen to all the Vedas followers who believe they will be reborn into another life form _on this earth_ ? If there is no more life forms on this earth, what will happen to them ?I believe you are grossly confusing the concept of the Day of Judgement with the scientific theory of the cyclic universe (intended as the expanding and collapsing of the universe).If I am not mistaken, the doctrine of the Day of Judgment shared by all Abrahamic faiths (or if you prefer, by the "peoples of the Book") says that within a very short span of time (calculated in a few thousands of years only) the created world will suddenly be destroyed by God and all people (including those who have lived and died in previous ages) will be judged as being "good" or "bad". I have also been told that always according to the Abrahamic faiths, the "good" will then be admitted to "eternal paradise", and the "bad" will be dumped into

"eternal hell". Now, no scientist has ever proven or even tried to prove that such things as paradise or hell exist, where they are, or if they are actually eternal, if there will be any Judgement, where and how, and so on. Some foolish people even say that all the people who lived and died in previous ages will be resurrected in their own old flesh (that had rotten away centuries ago) to be judged in the Judgement Day, when science teaches that all bodies are composed by the same atoms that have previously been part of other bodies! Regarding the Vedic version, I need to inform you that nowhere in the Vedas it is said/written/ surmised that souls must necessarily be reborn on this Earth forever, either during the existence of this universe or after the end of this particular universe.Actually the Vedas teach that the purpose of human life is not rebirth on Earth (or on any other of the billions of planets existing in the universe), but

LIBERATION from material conditioning (called moksha).Liberation from the cycle of births and deaths is the purpose of all the Vedas, and someone who is unaware of this point is utterly ignorant of Vedic knowledge and totally unqualified to state "what the Vedas teach". Secondly, it seems that your scientific knowledge stops short of knowing that many universes and many galaxies exist, and that scientists do not exclude the possibility of a cyclic pattern in manifestations and destructions of universes. In other words, there is not one single creation, but an eternal cycle of creations and destructions over immense spans of time, calculated beyond billions of years. This is precisely the Vedic version.Furthermore, it is stated in the Vedas that several different cycles of destruction are regularly scheduled even within the duration of the universe ? they are called "partial destructions" , comparable for example, to the Deluge described in the

Bible.In such partial destructions only some planets are destroyed ? something that also modern scientists agree on: in fact, stars and planets are destroyed daily within the general life-span of the larger universe, and some are even being created in this very moment.The Vedas actually describe with great detail and mathematical precision such cycles of creation and destruction, and teach that at the complete destruction of the entire universe (which includes the regions that Abrahamic peoples call "hell"), the souls who have attained liberation continue to live happily in the spiritual world (which is never destroyed) while those who have not attained liberation remain in a dormant state and "take rest" until the next creation is manifested. Something like summer holidays at school...At that time they get a new opportunity for rebirth if they need to. 2. If the Ancient Egyptians believed that their souls will go to Heaven, and the ancient

Egyptians had Scripture centuries before the Vedas, then why do vedas followers claim their scripture is the oldest and therefore reincarnation is the right way ? It is quite unusual for me to hear a Muslim quoting the authority of the religion and scriptures of ancient Egyptians ? I have always had the impression that Muslims despised them as idolaters and ignorant non-believers!So I am very happy to see that you deeply appreciate and respect them, and bring them as examples of wisdom and proper information.From your studies on the religion of ancient Egyptians you must have certainly learned that their "Heaven" was quite an earthly paradise, where they would become gods among the gods, and enjoy life with many material pleasures.I am happy to inform you that the ancestors of the ancient Egyptians took this idea from the original Vedic knowledge and civilisation that once flourished all over the world, and whose traces can still be found in many

unexpected places.The Vedas, which have been historically proven to be THOUSANDS of years older than the ancient Egyptian scriptures, teach that in fact there is a "Heaven" such as described by the ancient Egyptians.In the Vedas, such a heavenly paradise is called Svarga, and it is described as a higher planetary system within this material universe, where people have wonderful, beautiful bodies that are free from disease and old age, possess much greater powers than the ordinary material bodies we have on Earth, and are virtually immortal, as they continue to live in the same handsome and strong form for thousands of years.According to the Vedas, the good people who accrue genuine religious merits (in any genuine religion) attain this Heaven where they can enjoy the greatest pleasures of life. However, this Heaven is also temporary and it is destroyed at the end of a complete cycle of the universe (which is a very long time). However, the Vedas

also describe an immense Spiritual World (called Vaikuntha) where the liberated souls (see previous point) live eternally, undisturbed by the destruction of this insignificant universe. The difference between Vaikuntha and Svarga ("Heaven") is that in Vaikuntha people are not interested in material pleasures but only in the love of God and in pure spiritual realisation. Something that unfortunately many people are even unable to begin to understand because they have no love for God whatsoever, and in their Heavens they rather prefer to dedicate their attention on wine and prostitutes than on loving service to God. This variety of situations described in the Vedas for what may happen to a person after death does not contradict in any way the fact of reincarnation.Reincarnation is not so much a "reward" for good and religious people, but rather a second (and third, fourth etc) chance, or a series of classes just like in school ? so that in each life we get

the opportunity to learn lessons that we did not learn previously, or to perform the good deeds that we were unable to do in previous lifetimes.Any civilised school allows a mediocre student who failed the exams to attend the same class again and again sit for the exam at the end of the following year.Actually, the option of reincarnation is THE BEST proof of God's compassion and justice, while negating the concept of reincarnation amounts to nothing less than blasphemy ? as it depicts a cruel, immoral, unjust, whimsical and foolish God who gives only a few short years to people, often in very difficult and disadvantaged circumstances (lack of intelligence, lack of good training in moral values and in education, lack of good opportunity, etc) and then condemns them to ETERNAL TORTURE IN HELL for "failing the test".Why is that unjust? Because God makes some other people take birth in very educated and well trained families, wealthy enough to guarantee all

necessities of life and even extravagant pleasures without any effort (what to speak of illicit/sinful enterprises such as stealing).So why the discrimination?If everyone starts from the same point, and God is the compassionate and just Father of all, why does one take birth as the healthy son of a pious religionist in a wealthy and powerful family, and another takes birth as the crippled and foolish child in a family of hardened criminals who never heard about God and religion? After all, if we believe that God is All-powerful (as in fact he is), negating reincarnation amounts to stating that God is the only one responsible for the shortcomings of his creatures and for the unfavorable conditions in which such creatures are forced to live, thereby determining their actions and causing them to commit even serious mistakes and sins without having a real opportunity for choice (and hence responsibility) .It should be easy to understand that

reincarnation explains the good or bad "start" at birth of each individual with the results of his previous acts in previous lifetimes, and that each subsequent birth is "a further chance" that God is offering to everyone who didn't make it the first time, just like a good father patiently waits for his child to try something difficult again and again, offering guidance and opportunities until he has learned it properly. What kind of good compassionate father would condemn his child to eternal horrible torture (such as those described in hell) for having failed a difficult task on his first attempt, maybe even without providing a decent guidance?If even a human being, that you suppose to less intelligent than a dolphin, is able to understand this meaning of compassion and show this minimum level of affection to his children, how can the Great, All-Merciful, All-Powerful and Infallible God be less compassionate than a mere fallible human being, and less successful and

intelligent as a father? Reincarnation also easily explains many phenomena that would be impossible to explain otherwise ? such as extraordinarily talented children who seem to know things before anyone has taught them anything, or who actually remember events of previous lifetimes, places, etc, that are verified by practical and scientific investigation.Negating reincarnation, on the other hand, not only fails to explain these very real and proven cases, but is also unable to explain WHERE the souls of the people who lived and died from the creation of the world until the Day of Judgment are supposed to wait for the "final day". Is there a waiting hall somewhere between Earth and Heaven?Are these people going to heaven or hell immediately after death? And if so, what is the purpose or necessity of the Day of Judgment anyway?From what some foolish people say, the Day of Judgement seems to be a pointless and absurd "big meeting" (where? is there any

place big enough to accommodate at the same time all the billions of billions of people who lived in past ages?) where people who died long ago just get back an old and rotting material body so they can take it with them to heaven or to hell.And why should they need to do that? If their old material body is required to enjoy in heaven or to suffer in hell, what is the point of being in heaven or hell after death but before the Judgment Day, as you don't have a material body (not any more and not yet)?Usually, when asked these "difficult questions", foolish people hide behind the convenient concept of "mystery" to avoid explaining what is totally absurd, pointless and unscientific. 3. Low caste members (untouchables) are born into certain families, for example, everyone born into the Juppy family, automatically becomes a untouch able. The woman in the Juppy family, Mrs. Juppy is the aledged door way for bad people in previous lives who did not

follow the Vedas to be born through Mrs. Juppy and hence be also a untouchable like the rest of Mrs. Juppy's family members.If Mrs. Juppy converts to Islam or Budduism which thousands are doing daily in India, what then will happen to the enterance gate for the non-Vedas followers to be reborn into?If there are no longer any untouchables becuase of either conversion or finacial fortune, then the entire caste system would collapse (as it slowly is doing thanks to the help of humanitary workers.) then there would no longer be a earthly Hell as the Vedas followers imagine, and no longer a reward or punishment, why then are the Vedas gods not maintaining there reward and punishment systems?Inconclusion, if there are Two doors, (door A) and (door B) the good go to (door A) and the bad go to (door B), what will happen to the bad if (door B) becomes sealed up or has disappeared ?4. If the Vedas followers desire Unity, why is it that they enforce a system where

their own members are divided into 5 levels where certain levels are not allowed to talk to, eat with, or even Touch Other Vedas followers ? Vedic society is actually composed not by 5, but by 4 main groups:1. intellectuals and teachers,2. administrators and warriors,3. merchants and entrepreneurs, and4. unskilled laborers and manual workers who need to be maintained by others by means of a regular salary. These social classes are natural divisions and also exist in all societies, and in any society there is a natural tendency by which the children are encouraged and expected to follow their parents' way of life and ideals. I don't know where you got the concept that a "low caste member" can become a "high caste member in Vedic/Hindu society" by making money ("financial fortune") or even by conversion to Islam!I was also not aware that everyone outside the Hindu society, and especially in Islam (as you make the

case for conversion to Islam) is equally wealthy.Are there not rich and poor people among Muslims or other "peoples of the Book"? Are all Bangladeshi Muslims as wealthy as the Sheiks of Saudi Arabia because they are regularly receiving equal shares of wealth from their Muslim brothers?Or are wealthy Bangladeshi and Kashmiri Muslims acquiring wealth by illegally appropriating the lands and houses of Hindus, as I have heard?You will certainly know this better than me... However, it is very important to understand that in Vedic society membership to a particular social class has nothing to do with one's money.Moving from a degraded level of life to a high position in society by acquiring money (especially if such "financial fortune" is not acquired by virtuous means) is never the proof that a person has become respectable, or that he has developed the qualities and activities described in the Vedas for the members of the higher classes of

society.In fact, the highest class in Vedic society ? the brahmanas ? are often described as NOT wealthy, and actually living a very simple and renounced life.And even in modern Indian society, there are plenty of people from higher "castes" who are in very financially disadvantaged situations and face great problems in life because of their lack of funds ? yet they are denied opportunities instead given to wealthy persons from "lower castes", such as free education, government jobs, housing etc.This is due to the ignorant and foolish propaganda of "humanitary workers" who propagate stupid prejudice as if it were undisputable facts, and make blind discriminations based on caste without actually checking the financial situation of the beneficiaries. Apart from that, your definition of "untouchables" as "low caste members" is very incorrect and based on the imagination of ignorant people.It is much more proper to define "untouchables" as

"outcaste", or people who do not belong to any of the "castes" of Vedic society because they have impure habits of life, not following any purificatory ritual.Would YOU like to be touched by someone who never washes his hands or takes bath (even after going to the toilet)? I wouldn't ? it's a simple and valuable hygienic consideration. Again, it is important to understand that in Vedic society, "untouchables" are those who do not follow the Vedic regulations of cleanliness and pure life habits, either by "family tradition" or simply by personal choice.Of course people who are born from parents/families who disregard the Vedic regulations of cleanliness and pure life habits are initially disadvantaged because they do not get the proper training/teachings and they may even be emotionally attached to their unclean "traditions" as a cultural or family heritage, but reform is always possible and in fact recommended by Vedic scriptures, where many examples

are presented.Nowhere in Vedic scriptures you will find that belonging to a particular caste (or better, varna ? since "caste" is a Portuguese word introduced in India by Christians and is nowhere to be found in the Vedas) depends solely on BIRTH IN A PARTICULAR FAMILY.On the opposite, Bhagavad gita and many other Vedic texts clearly explains that one's belonging to a particular social class is determined by GUNA and KARMA, i.e. qualities and activities. Besides, the Vedas teach that the different classes of human society are like the different parts of a body ? the brahmanas the head, the kshatriyas the arms, the vaisyas the belly, the sudras the feet. Can we think of a more radical example of unity, than the example of a single living organism?However, the example graphically shows that different groups of people perform different duties according to their qualities and skills ? I don't think you eat by using your feet instead of your hands, or

you walk on your head instead of using your feet, do you? It is obviously impossible to concentrate the immense and perfect system of Vedic society in a few lines, therefore I invite you to take the proper time and opportunity to adequately get the correct information, so that your misconceptions can be cleared before you accuse poor Mrs. Juppy of being a bad woman (maybe we could say an impure kefir comparable to stool?).I believe that much of your misconceptions about the Vedic system are in fact distorted projections of your own ideas or ideas of people from your own community: it is a very frequent occurrence, and it has created much unnecessary suffering and confusion, also preventing a real solution to the problems. 5. How do Vedas followers claim they desire love and harmony when they think it is Absolute Justice that fellow Vedas followers includeing women and children die daily in India under the current caste system?Where is this

extravagant notion coming from, and why are you presenting it as an established and indisputable fact? Do you have any concrete examples?I rather tend to believe that in India people die out of poverty because for the last many centuries India has been sucked dry of her immense resources by leeches and vampires of human appearance (but much less than human nature), who preferred to steal than to cultivate or produce by their own work, and who had nothing in their vocabulary that included the notions of "love" and "harmony".These "conquerors" were actually aggressive, imperialistic, violent, ruthless, cruel and immoral rogues, plunderers and invaders, who constantly destroyed anything on their path (especially religious places), and raped, killed, enslaved millions including women an children (and by "enslaving" I do not intend merely as a figure of speech), stole away gold, jewels and anything valuable and even stones to build their own golden cities in distant

lands.Before such uncivilised and despicable pirates and bandits came to India, Indian people were so wealthy and prosperous that all travelers marveled at this fabulous land where people were so happy and enjoyed beauty, love and harmony in such a pacific and refined way. Furthermore, on the other hand I have heard about lots of "people of the Book" killing each other daily in the name of religion, in various parts of the world, including Palestine, Irak, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Darfur, etc, and now even in western countries. Often it is even Muslims killing Muslim brothers ? as in the case of Sunni and Shiites. How does that happen? It seems it's not even due to poverty, but rather it happens out of pure hatred. Do you know if this is true?And if it is, is this what Hindus are going to get when they convert to Islam (by the thousands daily?) 6. How is it a punishment to become a animal or a insect or a tree if some people can consider

this to be a reward rather than a punishment ? As said before, Insects are born They Fly, they Run, They Mate and they die, is that so bad ?For example, Ants have the about 200 times their own body weight strength, is it so bad to be that strong and Unified as ants are?9. Would it not be a better reward to come back as a dolphin who has a higher mental capabilites than humans ?Rebirth in a material body is never a "reward" but an opportunity for attaining wisdom ? something many people fail to realise, because of their limited intelligence and bad training (and refusal to actually get the proper information from the proper source). I don't know who told you that according to the Vedas it is a punishment to become an animal or an insect (BTW insects are also animals, I believe, according to Zoology) or a tree.In fact the Vedas teach the utmost respect for all living beings, because all living beings are equally souls (jivatma)and divine

spiritual energy (brahman).However, both science and Vedic knowledge recognise that the human form of life is more evolved and capable of greater intelligence and accomplishments than ants or dolphins.Granted, many people who appear to have a human form of life are in fact no better than animals, and in some cases they are even worse than animals, even if they demand the highest respect due to human beings (and they show no respect to animals).And if such respect is there as you say it should be, why are animals, insects and trees destroyed by Muslims without any hesitation and often without any need? In general, the system of reincarnation allows a gradual evolution of each individual soul according to the development of the sense of positive responsibility and understanding of God's plan. However, there are exceptions in the sense that some individuals misuse their human form of life and therefore lose the benefits offered by such

opportunity. Regarding your statement that dolphins have higher mental capabilities than humans, I can only wonder what kind of human beings are you accustomed to associate with, or you have been taught to respect and follow!In any case, if you want to be reborn as a dolphin or an ant because you believe that such form of life offers more advantages or is more respectable than human life, you may do so without any problem from Hindus... not from me in any case: be my guest! :-) And after all, what is it to me or you, what others say?Let's say that you live in a village where people believe that eating stool is a reward and eating strawberries is a punishment.Will I be so stupid as to start eating smelly stool full of microbes, and throw away clean, fresh and sweet strawberries full of vitamins? No thanks, not even if I happen to visit your village for some reason.I have no problem with you being happy in eating stool in relish. As

long as your beliefs do not become a nuisance for me, and stool-vending stalls don't spring up all along the streets of my village and around my house.You may keep your delicious stool and I will keep my disgusting strawberries. .. :-)No need for competition or disharmony! You just don't call me a sub-human and I don't call you an idiot, so everybody can finally be happy, loving and harmonious. Just don't kiss me after your meal... or better, don't kiss me at all! :-)We can even make separate villages where all those who like eating stool choose to reside and gather together in pleasant Festivals of the Best Excrements, celebrating their superior way of life!Then one day, if someone of them gets tired of stool and comes to inquire what is that I am eating and if it is good, I will be happy to explain them about vitamins and natural sugars and enzymes, and about microbes and toxins too. I may even offer them a taste of strawberries and whipped cream,

strawberry cake, or strawberry jam on bread and butter.And if they like, I'll tell where they can buy these fruits and even how to grow them.This is the proper behavior that the Vedas teach (param drstva nivartate): a civilised respect for the way of life of others and benevolent disposition to offer one's best to others, without attachment to the results. Therefore Hindus do not go around forcing others to convert to Hinduism either by force, by lying or by material allurement. 7. How is it a reward to be born into the world as children are screaming and crying and live years before having any comprehension, and then to grow old and to again loose comprehension, where is the reward to be reincarnated into that over and over?The "reward" (or better, the valuable opportunity) offered by birth in the world as a human being is the possibility of learning how to appreciate and love God and do something good for the world and for others. This is a good

reason to wish to be born again (i.e. take a fresh body) when the old body has become incapacitated by old age (if not by senility and idiocy).Getting old and senile is a problem that has nothing to do with reincarnation ? actually it is a much worse prospect if one does not believe in reincarnation, because one is likely to perform the final (and most important/definitiv e) actions of his life (which will determine his eternity in heaven or hell) in the incapacitated condition of old age where one "loses comprehension" . In fact your question very nicely illustrates the life and level of intelligence and accomplishments of an individual soul who has attained a human form but is not living as a true human being ? very likely, the kind of people you bring as example as "less intelligent than dolphins".In civilised societies elderly people are supposed to become wiser, not just senile, and children are cared for, and not left screaming and

crying.Actually not even birth requires screaming and crying, unless the baby is "delivered" without the proper medical knowledge, respect and consideration for his/her needs and the needs of the mother.I don't know in which type of society you live, but it doesn't look that good to me... 8. Why would God show us the Many stars and galaxsies if we are only limmited to this world over and over?Why would God Direct our Attension to Heaven if we are only limmited to earth ? Why would God make Heaven so appealing and so Majestic if we are never to leave from being born as earthly creatures over and over?This question seems to imply a deep confusion between "Heaven" and "stars and galaxies". Is the Heaven of Muslims situated on some star or galaxy that we can see in the sky at night, and observe with telescopes or space probes?I was not aware of that. Is there any NASA photo of Muslims in Heaven sitting on some star? 10.

What would happen if I smash up every one of the 400 different statues of Vedas gods, can those gods on earth protect themselves? What will be the worst thing that can happen to me, to be reborn as a Muslim :-) ?I am surprised to see that you show such a limited understanding of the all-Powerful and Great God.The Vedas clearly teach that all the divine forms of God are one and the same God, and they exist eternally, and independently from a particular representation in the form of a statue or painting etc on this planet.Can you really spit at the sky? How will you reach it with your spite and hatred? At most your spit can travel a little distance up in the air (which is also part of the sky, but cannot be stained by your excretions) and then just come down splashing on your head.Do you really think that God can be limited within a statue, a stone or a book?Is this why are you worshiping the Black Stone at the Mecca, or the Quran?Is this why Muslims

get balistic and go on blind rampages when someone makes a cartoon of prophet Mohamed?And what would happen if Israel or USA obliterated the Qaaba and Mecca with an atomic bomb? In which direction would Muslims offer their namaz? Where would they go in pilgrimage for the Hajj? To answer your question, of what would happen to you if you destroyed sacred symbols of religion and worship to God, I can tell you that you would demonstrate to yourself, to the world and to God himself that you have no respect and understanding for religious things and your nature is violent, destructive, intolerant and foolish, unfit to be allowed to exist in a civilised world.By such an act you would destroy your own peace and the peace of your house and people, because one who becomes an enemy of God can never have peace.So all the good wishes for peace would become void and meaningless, and your family, country and society would be torn by constant war, violence and

unrest. On the more immediate level of the result of your activities, if you arrogantly smashed every one of 400 statues of Hindu Deities, in the very least you should be severely punished by the Government because it is a crime, just like anyone should be punished if he invaded your house and smashed every one of the books you cherish and value, and every one of the photos and tokens of your loved ones, family, friends and ancestors. PKD May god bless you, Dr. Saroja Ramanujam, M.A., Ph.D, Siromani in sanskrit.

Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

November 11, 2006

Ohm Namo Narayana

This is verygood.Thank you for posting and forwading

this.I have forwaded to my friends and family.

Thank you

--- Sunil Menon <menon_sunil wrote:

> Dear Sunilji

> Ohm Narayanaya Namah

> I was quiet, for some days, not intentionally but

> due to bouncing of group messages from my mail box

> and themselves came to my rescue, asking me to

> visit a link to rectify by answering some questions.

> I ticked off some boxes there and here I am back to

> my normalcy.. I mean the mails flowing into my mail

> box again. Is this something like Alzheimer in the

> computer system? I have to go back to our group

> message board to read the rest that I missed and

> will share my experience and views as prompted by

> you and Raj Vasudevan separately specially about

> Alzheimer.

>

> In the mean time I am forwarding the following that

> I got from another group which I want you to have a

> good look and if you consider it is good for our

> members at Guruvayoor group, please post the same. I

> know you are busy with the forthcoming issue of

> Navaneetham but knowing you well, I am sure you will

> have time to do this also.

> Thank you for your time. Until next time

> Chandra Sekharan Menon

>

> Namaste,

>

> This is a great response to questions by a Muslim

> that were made to criticize Hindus and followers of

> Dharma. What follows is the questions by the Muslim

> and then the extensive response made by

> Paramakaruna, one of the members of the Vedic

> Friends Association. Please read and use this if

> every you need to help defend Dharma against those

> who wish to criticize it.

> Hari Om and Hari bol,

>

> Stephen Knapp

>

> Questions for Hindus

> 1. If scientists have proven that the world will

> come to an end (Day of Judgement)

> what will happen to all the Vedas followers who

> believe they will be reborn into another life form

> _on this earth_ ? If there is no more life forms on

> this earth, what will happen to them ?

>

> 2. If the Ancient Egyptians believed that their

> souls will go to Heaven, and the ancient Egyptians

> had Scripture centuries before the Vedas, then why

> do vedas followers claim their scripture is the

> oldest and therefore reincarnation is the right way

> ?

> 3. Low caste members (untouchables) are born into

> certain families, for example, everyone born into

> the Juppy family, automatically becomes a untouch

> able. The woman in the Juppy family, Mrs. Juppy is

> the aledged door way for bad people in previous

> lives who did not follow the Vedas to be born

> through Mrs. Juppy and hence be also a untouchable

> like the rest of Mrs. Juppy's family members.

> If Mrs. Juppy converts to Islam or Budduism which

> thousands are doing daily in India, what then will

> happen to the enterance gate for the non-Vedas

> followers to be reborn into?

> If there are no longer any untouchables becuase of

> either conversion or finacial fortune, then the

> entire caste system would collapse (as it slowly is

> doing thanks to the help of humanitary workers.)

> then there would no longer be a earthly Hell as the

> Vedas followers imagine, and no longer a reward or

> punishment, why then are the Vedas gods not

> maintaining there reward and punishment systems?

> Inconclusion, if there are Two doors, (door A) and

> (door B) the good go to (door A) and the bad go to

> (door B), what will happen to the bad if (door B)

> becomes sealed up or has disappeared ?

> 4. If the Vedas followers desire Unity, why is it

> that they enforce a system where their own members

> are divided into 5 levels where certain levels are

> not allowed to talk to, eat with, or even Touch

> Other Vedas followers ?

> 5. How do Vedas followers claim they desire love and

> harmony when they think it is Absolute Justice that

> fellow Vedas followers includeing women and children

> die daily in India under the current caste system?

> 6. How is it a punishment to become a animal or a

> insect or a tree if some people can consider this to

> be a reward rather than a punishment ? As said

> before, Insects are born They Fly, they Run, They

> Mate and they die, is that so bad ?

> For example, Ants have the about 200 times their own

> body weight strength, is it so bad to be that strong

> and Unified as ants are?

> 7. How is it a reward to be born into the world as

> children are screaming and crying and live years

> before having any comprehension, and then to grow

> old and to again loose comprehension, where is the

> reward to be reincarnated into that over and over?

> 8. Why would God show us the Many stars and

> galaxsies if we are only limmited to this world over

> and over?

> Why would God Direct our Attension to Heaven if we

> are only limmited to earth ? Why would God make

> Heaven so appealing and so Majestic if we are never

> to leave from being born as earthly creatures over

> and over?

> 9. Would it not be a better reward to come back as a

> dolphin who has a higher mental capabilites than

> humans ?

> 10. What would happen if I smash up every one of the

> 400 different statues of Vedas gods, can those gods

> on earth protect themselves? What will be the worst

> thing that can happen to me, to be reborn as a

> Muslim :-) ?

> The Authors give Full Permission to Use the Above

> Material As Your Own for Non-Profit Purposes.

> The Response

> Dear Mohamed,

> First of all I wish you peace in the name of God,

> the Great, the All-Powerful, the All-Knowing, and

> the All-Merciful.

> Peace is the greatest gift of God, and the greatest

> treasure by which one can understand and serve God.

>

> Some friends have forwarded me part of your article

> (which I paste at the end of my mail) and suggested

> that I should answer your questions.

>

> I am warmly inviting you to better study and

> understand the teachings of the Vedas, so that you

> will become able to better appreciate God's

> greatness.

> In fact from your questions and from your exposition

> of what you consider to be the " doctrine of

> Hinduism " , it appears evident that you have only a

> very superficial and indirect knowledge of

> Hindu/Vedic philosophy and theology.

> I consider such shortcomings of yours to be due to

> your gathering information from unqualified,

> ignorant and confused people, and I warmly invite

> you to improve your understanding by first-hand

> knowledge, accompanied by the proper spirit of

> respectful inquiry.

>

> Whenever one wishes to learn something, he must

> approach a qualified teacher and listen carefully

> and respectfully to the proper knowledge, then make

> sure he has understood correctly before passing

> judgments or criticising the genuine Knowledge.

> Unfortunately such an intelligent and mature

> approach is quite rare, and therefore many people

> are facing so many disasters at personal and

> collective level.

> It happens in all groups, and especially in these

> days we are all called to improve the situation for

> the sake of collective peace and cooperation among

> all.

>

> For example, people who do not really know the true

> and wonderful philosophy of Islam and the sublime

> qualities of Allah may tell you (and other people)

> very dangerous and immoral things such as follows:

>

> 1. indiscriminately destroying resources, killing,

> wounding and maiming innocent people, including

> women, children, and even Muslim brothers/sisters in

> terroristic acts is not only acceptable but it even

> accrues the religious merits of a Muslim and is a

> bona fide religious activity

> 2. all those who are not accepting Mohamed as the

> ONLY prophet are sub-human and have no rights; they

> are compared to untouchable stool and they should be

> killed without any hesitation, tortured, humiliated,

> enslaved, exploited and cheated; besides, the word

> given to a kefir has no meaning and it can be broken

> at any time without any bad consequence

> 3. a woman who does not wear the veil can rightfully

> be raped, in fact religious merit is accrued to

> Muslims who rape " unworthy " women (sometimes as a

> punishment, even for someone else's faults); women

> who do not wear the veil can also rightfully be

> attacked, wounded, maimed, tortured, etc in the name

> of religion

> 4. a raped woman (this means a person forced to

> sexual contact against her will) is automatically

> guilty of adultery (in virtue of the rape) and must

> therefore be punished by stoning, severe flogging

> etc (while the real offender almost invariably goes

> free, unless 4 male who have been direct witnesses

> to the fact agree to accuse him in court)

> 5. all women (including Muslim women) are never

> intended to have any human right but are no better

> than animals, so they are not entitled to any

> personal property, inheritance, capacity of witness

> or plaintiff in courts, legal rights in

> marriage/divorce/ motherhood etc

>

=== message truncated ===

______________________________\

____

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http://new.mail.

November 12, 2006

Hari OM!

Thank You Sunilji and ChandraMenonji this is so logical, and to the point bulls eye hit

to the religious fanatics... great Q & A... Thanks for sharing, and may the Lord bless

us all

Krishna Guruvayurappa

With Love & OM!

Krishna Prasad

On 11/11/06, Rajeswari ananda <anandarajee wrote:

Ohm Namo NarayanaThis is verygood.Thank you for posting and forwadingthis.I have forwaded to my friends and family.Thank you --- Sunil Menon <menon_sunil wrote:

> Dear Sunilji> Ohm Narayanaya Namah> I was quiet, for some days, not intentionally but> due to bouncing of group messages from my mail box> and themselves came to my rescue, asking me to

> visit a link to rectify by answering some questions.> I ticked off some boxes there and here I am back to> my normalcy.. I mean the mails flowing into my mail> box again. Is this something like Alzheimer in the

> computer system? I have to go back to our group> message board to read the rest that I missed and> will share my experience and views as prompted by> you and Raj Vasudevan separately specially about

> Alzheimer.> > In the mean time I am forwarding the following that> I got from another group which I want you to have a> good look and if you consider it is good for our> members at Guruvayoor group, please post the same. I

> know you are busy with the forthcoming issue of> Navaneetham but knowing you well, I am sure you will> have time to do this also. > Thank you for your time. Until next time> Chandra Sekharan Menon > > > > Namaste,> > This is a great response to questions by a Muslim> that were made to criticize Hindus and followers of> Dharma. What follows is the questions by the Muslim

> and then the extensive response made by> Paramakaruna, one of the members of the Vedic> Friends Association. Please read and use this if> every you need to help defend Dharma against those

> who wish to criticize it.> Hari Om and Hari bol,> > Stephen Knapp > > > Questions for Hindus> 1. If scientists have proven that the world will> come to an end (Day of Judgement)

> what will happen to all the Vedas followers who> believe they will be reborn into another life form> _on this earth_ ? If there is no more life forms on> this earth, what will happen to them ?

> > 2. If the Ancient Egyptians believed that their> souls will go to Heaven, and the ancient Egyptians> had Scripture centuries before the Vedas, then why> do vedas followers claim their scripture is the

> oldest and therefore reincarnation is the right way> ?> 3. Low caste members (untouchables) are born into> certain families, for example, everyone born into> the Juppy family, automatically becomes a untouch

> able. The woman in the Juppy family, Mrs. Juppy is> the aledged door way for bad people in previous> lives who did not follow the Vedas to be born> through Mrs. Juppy and hence be also a untouchable

> like the rest of Mrs. Juppy's family members.> If Mrs. Juppy converts to Islam or Budduism which> thousands are doing daily in India, what then will> happen to the enterance gate for the non-Vedas

> followers to be reborn into?> If there are no longer any untouchables becuase of> either conversion or finacial fortune, then the> entire caste system would collapse (as it slowly is> doing thanks to the help of humanitary workers.)

> then there would no longer be a earthly Hell as the> Vedas followers imagine, and no longer a reward or> punishment, why then are the Vedas gods not> maintaining there reward and punishment systems?

> Inconclusion, if there are Two doors, (door A) and> (door B) the good go to (door A) and the bad go to> (door B), what will happen to the bad if (door B)> becomes sealed up or has disappeared ?

> 4. If the Vedas followers desire Unity, why is it> that they enforce a system where their own members> are divided into 5 levels where certain levels are> not allowed to talk to, eat with, or even Touch

> Other Vedas followers ?> 5. How do Vedas followers claim they desire love and> harmony when they think it is Absolute Justice that> fellow Vedas followers includeing women and children> die daily in India under the current caste system?

> 6. How is it a punishment to become a animal or a> insect or a tree if some people can consider this to> be a reward rather than a punishment ? As said> before, Insects are born They Fly, they Run, They

> Mate and they die, is that so bad ?> For example, Ants have the about 200 times their own> body weight strength, is it so bad to be that strong> and Unified as ants are?> 7. How is it a reward to be born into the world as

> children are screaming and crying and live years> before having any comprehension, and then to grow> old and to again loose comprehension, where is the> reward to be reincarnated into that over and over?

> 8. Why would God show us the Many stars and> galaxsies if we are only limmited to this world over> and over?> Why would God Direct our Attension to Heaven if we> are only limmited to earth ? Why would God make

> Heaven so appealing and so Majestic if we are never> to leave from being born as earthly creatures over> and over?> 9. Would it not be a better reward to come back as a> dolphin who has a higher mental capabilites than

> humans ?> 10. What would happen if I smash up every one of the> 400 different statues of Vedas gods, can those gods> on earth protect themselves? What will be the worst> thing that can happen to me, to be reborn as a

> Muslim :-) ?> Copyright © Mohamed Ghounem> The Authors give Full Permission to Use the Above> Material As Your Own for Non-Profit Purposes.> The Response> Dear Mohamed,> First of all I wish you peace in the name of God,

> the Great, the All-Powerful, the All-Knowing, and> the All-Merciful.> Peace is the greatest gift of God, and the greatest> treasure by which one can understand and serve God.> > Some friends have forwarded me part of your article

> (which I paste at the end of my mail) and suggested> that I should answer your questions.> > I am warmly inviting you to better study and> understand the teachings of the Vedas, so that you

> will become able to better appreciate God's> greatness.> In fact from your questions and from your exposition> of what you consider to be the " doctrine of> Hinduism " , it appears evident that you have only a

> very superficial and indirect knowledge of> Hindu/Vedic philosophy and theology.> I consider such shortcomings of yours to be due to> your gathering information from unqualified,> ignorant and confused people, and I warmly invite

> you to improve your understanding by first-hand> knowledge, accompanied by the proper spirit of> respectful inquiry.> > Whenever one wishes to learn something, he must> approach a qualified teacher and listen carefully

> and respectfully to the proper knowledge, then make> sure he has understood correctly before passing> judgments or criticising the genuine Knowledge.> Unfortunately such an intelligent and mature

> approach is quite rare, and therefore many people> are facing so many disasters at personal and> collective level.> It happens in all groups, and especially in these> days we are all called to improve the situation for

> the sake of collective peace and cooperation among> all.> > For example, people who do not really know the true> and wonderful philosophy of Islam and the sublime> qualities of Allah may tell you (and other people)

> very dangerous and immoral things such as follows:> > 1. indiscriminately destroying resources, killing,> wounding and maiming innocent people, including> women, children, and even Muslim brothers/sisters in

> terroristic acts is not only acceptable but it even> accrues the religious merits of a Muslim and is a> bona fide religious activity> 2. all those who are not accepting Mohamed as the> ONLY prophet are sub-human and have no rights; they

> are compared to untouchable stool and they should be> killed without any hesitation, tortured, humiliated,> enslaved, exploited and cheated; besides, the word> given to a kefir has no meaning and it can be broken

> at any time without any bad consequence> 3. a woman who does not wear the veil can rightfully> be raped, in fact religious merit is accrued to> Muslims who rape " unworthy " women (sometimes as a

> punishment, even for someone else's faults); women> who do not wear the veil can also rightfully be> attacked, wounded, maimed, tortured, etc in the name> of religion> 4. a raped woman (this means a person forced to

> sexual contact against her will) is automatically> guilty of adultery (in virtue of the rape) and must> therefore be punished by stoning, severe flogging> etc (while the real offender almost invariably goes

> free, unless 4 male who have been direct witnesses> to the fact agree to accuse him in court)> 5. all women (including Muslim women) are never> intended to have any human right but are no better

> than animals, so they are not entitled to any> personal property, inheritance, capacity of witness> or plaintiff in courts, legal rights in> marriage/divorce/ motherhood etc>

=== message truncated ===________Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta.

http://new.mail.

-- dotcompals:

www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know.

If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!"Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. "