Guest guest Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Hari OM! Dear Nairji, Some of the temples in India have this rules of castewise discrimination. we cannot say anything about it. It is a religious issue totally. Dalits cannot forcefully enter any temple which is traditionally following the rules strictly.. there are some rules in Tantric tradition like people who have Tamasic habits or taking non-veg food, smoking, drinking etc should not enter certain places, during Tantric Prathividhis. So most of the ancient temples are followed by cetain rules.based on this traditions. After sometime we may say also we need to change Srimad Bhagawad Geetha as per to suite the modern times!.. Still we cannot say other caste people should enter Guruvayur because certain rules written by Sri Adi Shankaracharya and the Tantris of temple so we cannot change that part as we are changing the rules of Government. This is not a political issue at all. Even at Guruvayur after " Kshetra Pravesana Vilambaram " only Dalits and other so called " lower castes " among Hindus could enter the Temple. We need to stop Conversion activities of Christians in India instead first. We need all the religions all the cultures equally important to co-exist. We should not allow any particular religion to wipe out our ancient cultures. this only my opinion. never against any caste or religion. Why can't we start a movemnet for a strong Anti-Conversion Bill in India? With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/17/06, nbnair2000 <nbnair2000 wrote: I wish to bring to the kind attention of all my fellow devotees ofShri Guruvayur Appan the following news item for your immediatepositive response. ******Ref. Times of India Mumbai; Dec 16, 2006; Section: Times Nation; page 12. Bhubaneswar: A day after Dalits entered a Jagannath temple atKeredagada breaking a 300-year-old ban, angry upper caste people onFriday hit back by calling a bandh in the village located in Orissa'sKendrapada district. As an easy calm prevailed in the village, temple priests expressedtheir displeasure over the Dalits' entry into the shrine built by therulers of Kanika. They shut the temple doors, stopped performingrituals and sought to " purify " the shrine. … Some of the priests and upper caste people reportedly wanted toperform `mahasnana', a ritual bath of the deities at the temple. Keeping all this in mind, the government sent an additionalplatoon of armed police personnel to Keredagada. … " The Dalits chose to stay at home, fearing violence,'' saidSangram Mallick, leader of the Ambedkar Lohia Vichar Manch that ledthe Dalits' campaign for the right to enter the temple.*******How could we remain mute spectators to these atrocities being perpetuated to these Hindus, on the basis of caste discrimination, bythe (responsible) Hindus in the name of God and `the 300 year oldpractice " ?Change is a sign of life. People or Institutions not prepared to welcome timely, desirable changes will simply decay. The very factthat the tradition is " 300 year old " itself calls for a review toassess its current social and religious validity.Before expressing my opinion on other platforms and media I would like to seek the opinion of my esteemed fellow `Guruvayur Appan Devotees'in this matter.With warm regards,NB Nair, nbnair2000 -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!"Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 First and foremost, temple worship is part of agama sastras and does not constitute vaidhika practice. Of course, deity worship is a vaidhika practice as much as it is a bhagavatha practice. The core of the veda dharma is performance of yajnas, offering the results to the parameshwara (vishnu) and enjoying the prasadam. The point is temple worship is secondary albeit very attractive to all of us. Secondly, we have to see if the temple is a private or a government run temple. If it is a private temple, then the owners have the right to follow whatever regulations. Thirdly, even if the government had taken control of the temple no outsider can force change on the temple authorities because temples have the right to follow their tradition. We can disregard the tradition but we have no right to change it. There is a pattern of attack on temples including ayyappa temple and we dont want the perpetrators to win. Fourth, the term " dalit " does not figure in vedic scriptures. It is a derogatory term invented by the church to call the glorious sudras or harijans. Why do these people call themselves dalits (broken people) in such derogatory term? If they are entering the temple with faith and devotion, are they willing to discard Ambedkar's erroneous views on hinduism stated in " Riddles in Hinduism " . Hinduism accorded glorious position to all the varnas including sudras. If some one does not understand and gets carried away by missionary propaganda, we are here to help. But if some one wants to usurp rights without regard for tradition and doing it for money that the church pays them, we will fight the battle. nbnair2000 <nbnair2000 wrote: I wish to bring to the kind attention of all my fellow devotees of Shri Guruvayur Appan the following news item for your immediate positive response. ****** Ref. Times of India Mumbai; Dec 16, 2006; Section: Times Nation; page 12. Bhubaneswar: A day after Dalits entered a Jagannath temple at Keredagada breaking a 300-year-old ban, angry upper caste people on Friday hit back by calling a bandh in the village located in Orissa's Kendrapada district. As an easy calm prevailed in the village, temple priests expressed their displeasure over the Dalits' entry into the shrine built by the rulers of Kanika. They shut the temple doors, stopped performing rituals and sought to " purify " the shrine. … Some of the priests and upper caste people reportedly wanted to perform `mahasnana', a ritual bath of the deities at the temple. Keeping all this in mind, the government sent an additional platoon of armed police personnel to Keredagada. … " The Dalits chose to stay at home, fearing violence,'' said Sangram Mallick, leader of the Ambedkar Lohia Vichar Manch that led the Dalits' campaign for the right to enter the temple. ******* How could we remain mute spectators to these atrocities being perpetuated to these Hindus, on the basis of caste discrimination, by the (responsible) Hindus in the name of God and `the 300 year old practice " ? Change is a sign of life. People or Institutions not prepared to welcome timely, desirable changes will simply decay. The very fact that the tradition is " 300 year old " itself calls for a review to assess its current social and religious validity. Before expressing my opinion on other platforms and media I would like to seek the opinion of my esteemed fellow `Guruvayur Appan Devotees' in this matter. With warm regards, NB Nair, nbnair2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Dear all, Radhe Krishna! If we propose to initiate an anti-conversion Bill, how do we go about? It was tried in Tamil Nadu by Jayalalitha and given up for whatever reasons. We are talking of an all-india level. So let us think on those lines and chalk out some embryonic plans to start with. Love KVG. Krishna Prasad wrote: Hari OM! Dear Nairji, Some of the temples in India have this rules of castewise discrimination. we cannot say anything about it. It is a religious issue totally. Dalits cannot forcefully enter any temple which is traditionally following the rules strictly.. there are some rules in Tantric tradition like people who have Tamasic habits or taking non-veg food, smoking, drinking etc should not enter certain places, during Tantric Prathividhis. So most of the ancient temples are followed by cetain rules.based on this traditions. After sometime we may say also we need to change Srimad Bhagawad Geetha as per to suite the modern times!.. Still we cannot say other caste people should enter Guruvayur because certain rules written by Sri Adi Shankaracharya and the Tantris of temple so we cannot change that part as we are changing the rules of Government. This is not a political issue at all. Even at Guruvayur after "Kshetra Pravesana Vilambaram" only Dalits and other so called "lower castes" among Hindus could enter the Temple. We need to stop Conversion activities of Christians in India instead first. We need all the religions all the cultures equally important to co-exist. We should not allow any particular religion to wipe out our ancient cultures. this only my opinion. never against any caste or religion. Why can't we start a movemnet for a strong Anti-Conversion Bill in India? With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/17/06, nbnair2000 <nbnair2000 > wrote: I wish to bring to the kind attention of all my fellow devotees of Shri Guruvayur Appan the following news item for your immediate positive response. ****** Ref. Times of India Mumbai; Dec 16, 2006; Section: Times Nation; page 12. Bhubaneswar: A day after Dalits entered a Jagannath temple at Keredagada breaking a 300-year-old ban, angry upper caste people on Friday hit back by calling a bandh in the village located in Orissa's Kendrapada district. As an easy calm prevailed in the village, temple priests expressed their displeasure over the Dalits' entry into the shrine built by the rulers of Kanika. They shut the temple doors, stopped performing rituals and sought to "purify" the shrine. … Some of the priests and upper caste people reportedly wanted to perform `mahasnana', a ritual bath of the deities at the temple. Keeping all this in mind, the government sent an additional platoon of armed police personnel to Keredagada. … "The Dalits chose to stay at home, fearing violence,'' said Sangram Mallick, leader of the Ambedkar Lohia Vichar Manch that led the Dalits' campaign for the right to enter the temple. ******* How could we remain mute spectators to these atrocities being perpetuated to these Hindus, on the basis of caste discrimination, by the (responsible) Hindus in the name of God and `the 300 year old practice"? Change is a sign of life. People or Institutions not prepared to welcome timely, desirable changes will simply decay. The very fact that the tradition is "300 year old" itself calls for a review to assess its current social and religious validity. Before expressing my opinion on other platforms and media I would like to seek the opinion of my esteemed fellow `Guruvayur Appan Devotees' in this matter. With warm regards, NB Nair, nbnair2000 -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in ..Org domain Names for just 2.5 USD Krishna Prasad Dare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!" Swami Chinmayananda Hate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 !! Sri Rama Jayam !! Dear Krishnaprasad ji, The topic looks higly focussed but the roots are hard to find. In India, a huge portion of temple customs are usually driven by the regional-specific culture (not finding a big time-line in history) & not from the actuals of Vedic theory. Frequently, one may find Vedic principles evident at the surface levels only. The way the deity is worshipped in a temple gives the best idea of the thinking-tendency of the mass people. Let us start with an example from our home - Believe me, there is a good percentage of devotees who consider inauspicious to worship Radha with Krishna (especially the followers of idol-based worshipping) & I have met some of them personally. They fear about the possibility of family sufferings down the line (which is reasonably based on the understanding about the pains taken by Radha for Krishna). Hopefully, they have not exactly understood the true message from 'Bhagavattam'. The same goes with 'Murali' at the hands of Krishna. These practices have become very personal to the faith of a devotee & gets passed-on to the newer generations. Nobody can challenge these practices - irrespective of the fact they appear correct or incorrect !! Another example would be 'Durga pooja' as celebrated by natives of Bengal and of Kerala. Surprisingly, even today cattle offerings are made to Durga/Kali during Navaratri which strictly deviates from the belief of a hindu keralite. But they form a part of the same 'Hindu Dharma'. This could puzzle our minds about the correctness of belief in Hindu Dharma and ofcourse no body has a clear-cut answer. The whole point behind quoting these examples is to help others understand the complexity of existing hindu beliefs which cannot be traced to it's origin. If that is possible, only then we could reconstruct our temple beliefs to its correct purpose. But is there a way out ? I would say 'yes' and it comes from the message of Vivekananda during the "World Religious conference" at Chicago. "Let's stop criticising other religions and find a way to attain religious harmony". Let us not be a "Frog in the well". Welcome your suggestions and comments. Hare Krishna Hare Rama guruvayur [guruvayur ] On Behalf Of Krishna PrasadMonday, December 18, 2006 8:57 PMguruvayur Subject: Re: [Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Is it Hindu Dharma? Hari OM! Dear Nairji, Some of the temples in India have this rules of castewise discrimination. we cannot say anything about it. It is a religious issue totally. Dalits cannot forcefully enter any temple which is traditionally following the rules strictly.. there are some rules in Tantric tradition like people who have Tamasic habits or taking non-veg food, smoking, drinking etc should not enter certain places, during Tantric Prathividhis. So most of the ancient temples are followed by cetain rules.based on this traditions. After sometime we may say also we need to change Srimad Bhagawad Geetha as per to suite the modern times!.. Still we cannot say other caste people should enter Guruvayur because certain rules written by Sri Adi Shankaracharya and the Tantris of temple so we cannot change that part as we are changing the rules of Government. This is not a political issue at all. Even at Guruvayur after "Kshetra Pravesana Vilambaram" only Dalits and other so called "lower castes" among Hindus could enter the Temple. We need to stop Conversion activities of Christians in India instead first. We need all the religions all the cultures equally important to co-exist. We should not allow any particular religion to wipe out our ancient cultures. this only my opinion. never against any caste or religion. Why can't we start a movemnet for a strong Anti-Conversion Bill in India? With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/17/06, nbnair2000 <nbnair2000 > wrote: I wish to bring to the kind attention of all my fellow devotees ofShri Guruvayur Appan the following news item for your immediatepositive response. ******Ref. Times of India Mumbai; Dec 16, 2006; Section: Times Nation; page 12. Bhubaneswar: A day after Dalits entered a Jagannath temple atKeredagada breaking a 300-year-old ban, angry upper caste people onFriday hit back by calling a bandh in the village located in Orissa'sKendrapada district. As an easy calm prevailed in the village, temple priests expressedtheir displeasure over the Dalits' entry into the shrine built by therulers of Kanika. They shut the temple doors, stopped performingrituals and sought to "purify" the shrine. … Some of the priests and upper caste people reportedly wanted toperform `mahasnana', a ritual bath of the deities at the temple. Keeping all this in mind, the government sent an additionalplatoon of armed police personnel to Keredagada. … "The Dalits chose to stay at home, fearing violence,'' saidSangram Mallick, leader of the Ambedkar Lohia Vichar Manch that ledthe Dalits' campaign for the right to enter the temple.*******How could we remain mute spectators to these atrocities being perpetuated to these Hindus, on the basis of caste discrimination, bythe (responsible) Hindus in the name of God and `the 300 year oldpractice"?Change is a sign of life. People or Institutions not prepared to welcome timely, desirable changes will simply decay. The very factthat the tradition is "300 year old" itself calls for a review toassess its current social and religious validity.Before expressing my opinion on other platforms and media I would like to seek the opinion of my esteemed fellow `Guruvayur Appan Devotees'in this matter.With warm regards,NB Nair, nbnair2000 -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!"Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Dear all, Personally I believe that the discrimination of the dalits of this nature will further encourage missionary activities. We should forget the caste differences and let all Hindus the right to Temple darshan. In Bhagavad-Gita it is clearly mentioned that the caste system is based on duties and not by birth. The Holier than thou concept is for organized religions, we should n't discriminate the dalits. Anto conversion bill won't work in India because the same Hindus will vote that Government out the next election. We need an Hindu awareness program first for a bill of this nature... Prem http://dharma.indviews.com/ "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: Dear all,Radhe Krishna!If we propose to initiate an anti-conversion Bill, how do we go about? It was tried in Tamil Nadu by Jayalalitha and given up for whatever reasons. We are talking of an all-india level. So let us think on those lines and chalk out some embryonic plans to start with.LoveKVG. Krishna Prasad wrote: Hari OM! Dear Nairji, Some of the temples in India have this rules of castewise discrimination. we cannot say anything about it. It is a religious issue totally. Dalits cannot forcefully enter any temple which is traditionally following the rules strictly.. there are some rules in Tantric tradition like people who have Tamasic habits or taking non-veg food, smoking, drinking etc should not enter certain places, during Tantric Prathividhis. So most of the ancient temples are followed by cetain rules.based on this traditions. After sometime we may say also we need to change Srimad Bhagawad Geetha as per to suite the modern times!.. Still we cannot say other caste people should enter Guruvayur because certain rules written by Sri Adi Shankaracharya and the Tantris of temple so we cannot change that part as we are changing the rules of Government. This is not a political issue at all. Even at Guruvayur after "Kshetra Pravesana Vilambaram" only Dalits and other so called "lower castes" among Hindus could enter the Temple. We need to stop Conversion activities of Christians in India instead first. We need all the religions all the cultures equally important to co-exist. We should not allow any particular religion to wipe out our ancient cultures. this only my opinion. never against any caste or religion. Why can't we start a movemnet for a strong Anti-Conversion Bill in India? With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/17/06, nbnair2000 <nbnair2000 > wrote: I wish to bring to the kind attention of all my fellow devotees ofShri Guruvayur Appan the following news item for your immediatepositive response. ******Ref. Times of India Mumbai; Dec 16, 2006; Section: Times Nation; page 12. Bhubaneswar: A day after Dalits entered a Jagannath temple atKeredagada breaking a 300-year-old ban, angry upper caste people onFriday hit back by calling a bandh in the village located in Orissa'sKendrapada district. As an easy calm prevailed in the village, temple priests expressedtheir displeasure over the Dalits' entry into the shrine built by therulers of Kanika. They shut the temple doors, stopped performingrituals and sought to "purify" the shrine. … Some of the priests and upper caste people reportedly wanted toperform `mahasnana', a ritual bath of the deities at the temple. Keeping all this in mind, the government sent an additionalplatoon of armed police personnel to Keredagada. … "The Dalits chose to stay at home, fearing violence,'' saidSangram Mallick, leader of the Ambedkar Lohia Vichar Manch that ledthe Dalits' campaign for the right to enter the temple.*******How could we remain mute spectators to these atrocities being perpetuated to these Hindus, on the basis of caste discrimination, bythe (responsible) Hindus in the name of God and `the 300 year oldpractice"?Change is a sign of life. People or Institutions not prepared to welcome timely, desirable changes will simply decay. The very factthat the tradition is "300 year old" itself calls for a review toassess its current social and religious validity.Before expressing my opinion on other platforms and media I would like to seek the opinion of my esteemed fellow `Guruvayur Appan Devotees'in this matter.With warm regards,NB Nair, nbnair2000 -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!"Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 But Krisahna Prasad, what is the way out ? Even our great religious leaders, are they concerned about it, I do not know. Under the circumstances, what can we poor individuals can do except pray? They say, anything that goes up will come down. so we have to hope that those who get converted, will, one day, realise that what they are doing is wrong and correct themselves. But Hinduism has stood the test of time. It will not fade away like that. But ultimately, if one looks at the totality of it, what do we want? Happiness. The other day, my own son came and asked me, "Father, one of my friends is calling me to visit the church. Can I go?" I could not but tell him, "Son, it doesnt matter which God you pray to, but do that prayer sincerely. More than anything else, it is your own mind that matters." Unfortunately, we all, as human beings, tend to link religion with politics. We are afraid if more conversions take place, the Christian population will go up and Christians may oppress Hindus, and Hindus may become a persecuted class. But true Christians do not persecute Hindus, this is what I have understood. Kindly correct me if I am wrong. Love KVG. Krishna Prasad wrote: Hari OM! Dear KVGopalaKrishna Sir, The other side never thinks they want to wipe out the cultures... only we are tolerant and universal All-India level everthing is ok. but the sand behind our legs is slowly loosening up.. if the conversion goes in this pace. Already, Manipur, and east side is under the influence of Churches, You might be well aware of all these things Sir, We never realise until it goes to the peak. people finally do not know what is Astamirohini onlyChristams and do not know what is Onam, What is Deepavali.. et al and Easter and Valentines day and Mother's day Father's day will be celebrated, the attachment, Love etc is slowly disappearing from Indian society. I talked to one of my friend at Chennai and She says she will only marry a born again Christian, it is going to the core level. in the girls hostels they are doing the spade work they spot girls who are vulnarable and brain wash and change. You are aware of all these Sir I am sure. Where is the Culture of ancient Greece, where is the culture of Ancient Europe this conversion wiped out everything. How man art forms they destroyed, can you imagine Bharatanatyam without worshipping Lord Nataraja. Now theyare working on Asia, You might be aware of Pope's statement while he visited India. like by 2025 this big land will be ours.. all our political leaders for vote never uttered a word. See even in this elite Gurupavanapuresan group how many of us are dedicated to learn and interest to learn Sanskrit even if some of our great Teachers like you are ready to teach is it not alarming??? Iam really surpised. Universal acceptance is Hindu Dharma that does not mean we are tolerant to wipe out our culture we should be aware. What is the situation in India now.. A real Hindu Dharma wala (HDwala) walks on the road a Christian and Muslim are there walking with HDwala... so as per the Hindu culture we just accept and talk to them. suppose an argument starts between these three and two of the so called minority community starts beating the HDwala and the state having equal protection for all the citizens right... If I call the police what he says this is totally a religious issue I cannot come in between because I am secular (Pseudo secular???) he he Ok Since HDwala is disciplined and well built and know the Martial arts and started giving back to Christian and Muslim..... immediately without calling the Police comes and says they are minority community and the state need to protect them .. think please.... ahhhhaaa ethu enthu niyamam Sir. The state has to equally protect each citizen.. regardless of caste, creed or whatever .So we so called Hindus preaching tolerance and Hindu Dharama and thinks universally and helps them to wipe out our Indian culture. We have been looted by Muslims and British Missionaries now it should not be allowed . And still we want universal Dharma.. that is real cowardice generally Iam not pointing anybody. So we should be alert definitely should be a strong Anti conversion bill in India this is at least my veiw.Finally we will come to a stage the Christians will come and say Guruvayur Temple was a Church constructed by St. Thomas for that also people will say toelrance and Hindu Dharma??? People can differ from these view and can say.. this is only Guruvayur group not allowed and all. but they are all closing the eyes infront of reality! And as long as their family and friends are happy they don't mind. that is the practice normally. We need all the cultures here to co-exist. we need Churches need Mosque and we need Temples. but not through conversion! Every culture is equally good. but not conversion! CONVERSION IS 100 % VIOLENCE because the converted does not have an identity, he is emotionally hurt. mentally hurt and religious person is the basic person when he is hurt there will be lot of problems. Sorry If this email is too lengthy because at least as a Devotee of Lord I should say this. I do not have problem to accept and go to church, and go to Mosque and pray to my own Guruvayurppan in different forms. but not through conversion! Pranmas to You and all devtees of Lord. and as quickly we realise it it is good for all and especially for Sanatana Dharma. Hare Guruvayurappa! With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/18/06, K.V Gopalakrishna <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: Dear all, Radhe Krishna! If we propose to initiate an anti-conversion Bill, how do we go about? It was tried in Tamil Nadu by Jayalalitha and given up for whatever reasons. We are talking of an all-india level. So let us think on those lines and chalk out some embryonic plans to start with. Love KVG. Krishna Prasad wrote: Hari OM! Dear Nairji, Some of the temples in India have this rules of castewise discrimination. we cannot say anything about it. It is a religious issue totally. Dalits cannot forcefully enter any temple which is traditionally following the rules strictly.. there are some rules in Tantric tradition like people who have Tamasic habits or taking non-veg food, smoking, drinking etc should not enter certain places, during Tantric Prathividhis. So most of the ancient temples are followed by cetain rules.based on this traditions. After sometime we may say also we need to change Srimad Bhagawad Geetha as per to suite the modern times!.. Still we cannot say other caste people should enter Guruvayur because certain rules written by Sri Adi Shankaracharya and the Tantris of temple so we cannot change that part as we are changing the rules of Government. This is not a political issue at all. Even at Guruvayur after "Kshetra Pravesana Vilambaram" only Dalits and other so called "lower castes" among Hindus could enter the Temple. We need to stop Conversion activities of Christians in India instead first. We need all the religions all the cultures equally important to co-exist. We should not allow any particular religion to wipe out our ancient cultures. this only my opinion. never against any caste or religion. Why can't we start a movemnet for a strong Anti-Conversion Bill in India? With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/17/06, nbnair2000 <nbnair2000 > wrote: I wish to bring to the kind attention of all my fellow devotees of Shri Guruvayur Appan the following news item for your immediate positive response. ****** Ref. Times of India Mumbai; Dec 16, 2006; Section: Times Nation; page 12. Bhubaneswar: A day after Dalits entered a Jagannath temple at Keredagada breaking a 300-year-old ban, angry upper caste people on Friday hit back by calling a bandh in the village located in Orissa's Kendrapada district. As an easy calm prevailed in the village, temple priests expressed their displeasure over the Dalits' entry into the shrine built by the rulers of Kanika. They shut the temple doors, stopped performing rituals and sought to "purify" the shrine. … Some of the priests and upper caste people reportedly wanted to perform `mahasnana', a ritual bath of the deities at the temple. Keeping all this in mind, the government sent an additional platoon of armed police personnel to Keredagada. … "The Dalits chose to stay at home, fearing violence,'' said Sangram Mallick, leader of the Ambedkar Lohia Vichar Manch that led the Dalits' campaign for the right to enter the temple. ******* How could we remain mute spectators to these atrocities being perpetuated to these Hindus, on the basis of caste discrimination, by the (responsible) Hindus in the name of God and `the 300 year old practice"? Change is a sign of life. People or Institutions not prepared to welcome timely, desirable changes will simply decay. The very fact that the tradition is "300 year old" itself calls for a review to assess its current social and religious validity. Before expressing my opinion on other platforms and media I would like to seek the opinion of my esteemed fellow `Guruvayur Appan Devotees' in this matter. With warm regards, NB Nair, nbnair2000 -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in ..Org domain Names for just 2.5 USD Krishna Prasad Dare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!" Swami Chinmayananda Hate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred." -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in ..Org domain Names for just 2.5 USD Krishna Prasad Dare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!" Swami Chinmayananda Hate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Hari OM! Dear Sir, Thanks for taking time to reply for this email. Yes I greatly appreciate your points. We are not helpless. the solutions or rather suggestions 1. Anti-Conversion bill.. very strict one. 2. Make Sanskrit as one of the compulsory language in schools and colleges(we will automatically become non-voilent and peaceful when we learn Sanskrit that is the beauty of the language is it not? correct me If Iam wrong) 3. Make real Indian History as the subject syllabus in Educational institutions (not when aurangazeeb sneezed and when mughals came that should be a side subject. we should learn about the Chanakya, the Krishan deva raya. The Mahabharata etc that is our History and not the Mughals and christian missionaries attrocities and their whims and fancies!) 4. In a country Majority of us are Hindus why we are helpless? if we want we can make it but no one wants it it seems. tolerance and universality is acceptable when all other religions accepts and they do not have an agenda behind it. 5. Anti-conversion bill won't work if people say. that is only just an excuse we can make any law strictly work in India. Politicians do not want to do that. may be Politicians are the best knowledgable people about India and its poor people but they just thinks selfishly instead of selfless or for the country. 6. Make our new generation kids learn the scriptures reagularly without any fail. First of all we need to practice it. rather than goin to clubs and alcohol pleasures. Practice vegetarianism 7. spread the values of our scriptures. 8. Invite Muslims and Christians to our Hindu festivals make them a part of it makethem understand the significance of the festivals and the value behind it. In the same way Hindus also should participate in their festivals and know about their religion.. to have more peaceful atmosphere Most of my generation are attracted to alcohol and clubs and living a indsciplined life! the reason is.. their parents never practiced the values that is the reason so the practice starts from all of US alone world perfection through individual perfection. And requesting our respective members to add more... to this list. With Love & OM! Hare Guruvayurappa Krishna Prasad On 12/19/06, K.V Gopalakrishna <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: But Krisahna Prasad, what is the way out ? Even our great religious leaders, are they concerned about it, I do not know. Under the circumstances, what can we poor individuals can do except pray? They say, anything that goes up will come down. so we have to hope that those who get converted, will, one day, realise that what they are doing is wrong and correct themselves. But Hinduism has stood the test of time. It will not fade away like that. But ultimately, if one looks at the totality of it, what do we want? Happiness. The other day, my own son came and asked me, " Father, one of my friends is calling me to visit the church. Can I go? " I could not but tell him, " Son, it doesnt matter which God you pray to, but do that prayer sincerely. More than anything else, it is your own mind that matters. " Unfortunately, we all, as human beings, tend to link religion with politics. We are afraid if more conversions take place, the Christian population will go up and Christians may oppress Hindus, and Hindus may become a persecuted class. But true Christians do not persecute Hindus, this is what I have understood. Kindly correct me if I am wrong. LoveKVG. Krishna Prasad wrote: Hari OM! Dear KVGopalaKrishna Sir, The other side never thinks they want to wipe out the cultures... only we are tolerant and universal All-India level everthing is ok. but the sand behind our legs is slowly loosening up.. if the conversion goes in this pace. Already, Manipur, and east side is under the influence of Churches, You might be well aware of all these things Sir, We never realise until it goes to the peak. people finally do not know what is Astamirohini onlyChristams and do not know what is Onam, What is Deepavali.. et al and Easter and Valentines day and Mother's day Father's day will be celebrated, the attachment, Love etc is slowly disappearing from Indian society. I talked to one of my friend at Chennai and She says she will only marry a born again Christian, it is going to the core level. in the girls hostels they are doing the spade work they spot girls who are vulnarable and brain wash and change. You are aware of all these Sir I am sure. Where is the Culture of ancient Greece, where is the culture of Ancient Europe this conversion wiped out everything. How man art forms they destroyed, can you imagine Bharatanatyam without worshipping Lord Nataraja. Now theyare working on Asia, You might be aware of Pope's statement while he visited India. like by 2025 this big land will be ours.. all our political leaders for vote never uttered a word. See even in this elite Gurupavanapuresan group how many of us are dedicated to learn and interest to learn Sanskrit even if some of our great Teachers like you are ready to teach is it not alarming??? Iam really surpised. Universal acceptance is Hindu Dharma that does not mean we are tolerant to wipe out our culture we should be aware. What is the situation in India now.. A real Hindu Dharma wala (HDwala) walks on the road a Christian and Muslim are there walking with HDwala... so as per the Hindu culture we just accept and talk to them. suppose an argument starts between these three and two of the so called minority community starts beating the HDwala and the state having equal protection for all the citizens right... If I call the police what he says this is totally a religious issue I cannot come in between because I am secular (Pseudo secular???) he he Ok Since HDwala is disciplined and well built and know the Martial arts and started giving back to Christian and Muslim..... immediately without calling the Police comes and says they are minority community and the state need to protect them .. think please.... ahhhhaaa ethu enthu niyamam Sir. The state has to equally protect each citizen.. regardless of caste, creed or whatever .So we so called Hindus preaching tolerance and Hindu Dharama and thinks universally and helps them to wipe out our Indian culture. We have been looted by Muslims and British Missionaries now it should not be allowed . And still we want universal Dharma.. that is real cowardice generally Iam not pointing anybody. So we should be alert definitely should be a strong Anti conversion bill in India this is at least my veiw.Finally we will come to a stage the Christians will come and say Guruvayur Temple was a Church constructed by St. Thomas for that also people will say toelrance and Hindu Dharma??? People can differ from these view and can say.. this is only Guruvayur group not allowed and all. but they are all closing the eyes infront of reality! And as long as their family and friends are happy they don't mind. that is the practice normally. We need all the cultures here to co-exist. we need Churches need Mosque and we need Temples. but not through conversion! Every culture is equally good. but not conversion! CONVERSION IS 100 % VIOLENCE because the converted does not have an identity, he is emotionally hurt. mentally hurt and religious person is the basic person when he is hurt there will be lot of problems. Sorry If this email is too lengthy because at least as a Devotee of Lord I should say this. I do not have problem to accept and go to church, and go to Mosque and pray to my own Guruvayurppan in different forms. but not through conversion! Pranmas to You and all devtees of Lord. and as quickly we realise it it is good for all and especially for Sanatana Dharma. Hare Guruvayurappa! With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/18/06, K.V Gopalakrishna <gopalakrishna.kv > wrote: Dear all,Radhe Krishna!If we propose to initiate an anti-conversion Bill, how do we go about? It was tried in Tamil Nadu by Jayalalitha and given up for whatever reasons. We are talking of an all-india level. So let us think on those lines and chalk out some embryonic plans to start with.LoveKVG. Krishna Prasad wrote: Hari OM! Dear Nairji, Some of the temples in India have this rules of castewise discrimination. we cannot say anything about it. It is a religious issue totally. Dalits cannot forcefully enter any temple which is traditionally following the rules strictly.. there are some rules in Tantric tradition like people who have Tamasic habits or taking non-veg food, smoking, drinking etc should not enter certain places, during Tantric Prathividhis. So most of the ancient temples are followed by cetain rules.based on this traditions. After sometime we may say also we need to change Srimad Bhagawad Geetha as per to suite the modern times!.. Still we cannot say other caste people should enter Guruvayur because certain rules written by Sri Adi Shankaracharya and the Tantris of temple so we cannot change that part as we are changing the rules of Government. This is not a political issue at all. Even at Guruvayur after " Kshetra Pravesana Vilambaram " only Dalits and other so called " lower castes " among Hindus could enter the Temple. We need to stop Conversion activities of Christians in India instead first. We need all the religions all the cultures equally important to co-exist. We should not allow any particular religion to wipe out our ancient cultures. this only my opinion. never against any caste or religion. Why can't we start a movemnet for a strong Anti-Conversion Bill in India? With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/17/06, nbnair2000 <nbnair2000 > wrote: I wish to bring to the kind attention of all my fellow devotees ofShri Guruvayur Appan the following news item for your immediatepositive response. ******Ref. Times of India Mumbai; Dec 16, 2006; Section: Times Nation; page 12. Bhubaneswar: A day after Dalits entered a Jagannath temple atKeredagada breaking a 300-year-old ban, angry upper caste people onFriday hit back by calling a bandh in the village located in Orissa's Kendrapada district. As an easy calm prevailed in the village, temple priests expressedtheir displeasure over the Dalits' entry into the shrine built by therulers of Kanika. They shut the temple doors, stopped performing rituals and sought to " purify " the shrine. … Some of the priests and upper caste people reportedly wanted toperform `mahasnana', a ritual bath of the deities at the temple. Keeping all this in mind, the government sent an additional platoon of armed police personnel to Keredagada. … " The Dalits chose to stay at home, fearing violence,'' saidSangram Mallick, leader of the Ambedkar Lohia Vichar Manch that ledthe Dalits' campaign for the right to enter the temple. *******How could we remain mute spectators to these atrocities being perpetuated to these Hindus, on the basis of caste discrimination, bythe (responsible) Hindus in the name of God and `the 300 year old practice " ?Change is a sign of life. People or Institutions not prepared to welcome timely, desirable changes will simply decay. The very factthat the tradition is " 300 year old " itself calls for a review to assess its current social and religious validity.Before expressing my opinion on other platforms and media I would like to seek the opinion of my esteemed fellow `Guruvayur Appan Devotees'in this matter. With warm regards,NB Nair, nbnair2000 -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, " Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly! " Swami Chinmayananda Hate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. " -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, " Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly! " Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. " -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know.If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!"Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Hari OM! Hello Vinodji, I understand your views. and that is 100 % true too. See all these rituals are because of ignorance alone the only way out is study our scriptures properly.. I am sure you might be aware like we should learn Bhagavatham and other puranas only after learning Upanishads and Geetha The Prasthanatrayam. Puranas are written for the lay man to understand things but now every one seems to be aware of things so we will under stand the puranas more when we learn the Prasthanathrayam first and then the puranas(the stories with moral values!) See the flute, and the Radha Krishna and stuff are made by our great Grandfathers to make aware of the new generation about our culture at least because of fear people will follow the religion! at that time. But in this age of technology and space... for everything the much developed intellect questions only thing we should be able to answer our new generation with the correct knowledge. seeing your mail I am remembering a story which Swami Dayanada Saraswathi of Arsha vidya gurukulam narrated in one of his lectures. There was a great saint. who does all the yagnas and tapas and poojas everyday. so he is naturally having lot of Disciples... there was a cat which disturbs the rituals every day. so the saint use to tie the cat before the rituals so that it won't disturb the poojas and yagnas. this continued.. for years. so his disciples are aware of this.. and no one asked questions to the sage. One day the sage become Brahmaleen. (Samadhi). So the next close disciple of the saint took over as the head of the spiritual organisation. So the first thing he did was he remembered like the Guru used to tie a cat. He bought a big fat cat for this purpose and before the rituals it was tied with lot of flower garlands in its neck and made the cat as a diety too! The above was exactly happened in the Krishna and the flute.. and the Radha and Krishna case as you stated in your email Hindu dharma is not at all complex .. people make it complex... without studying.. everyone want to become pandit, nowhere in our puranas it is said about Krishna and the flute right side left side etc..and the Durga pooja stuff. And I highly adore and respect Swami Vivekanada..... and we should be aware in what context Swamiji said the we should not be frogs in well. and where he said this. He also said that " Kerala is a Branthalayam " mental asylum seeing this kind of caste discrimination and the blind belief! No one is criticising other religions here Vinodji.. we are only making aware of our own community of other religion's agenda the CONVERSION which is the highest violence that is all. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/19/06, PS, Vinod K (GE Infra, Energy) <vinod.ps wrote: !! Sri Rama Jayam !! Dear Krishnaprasad ji, The topic looks higly focussed but the roots are hard to find. In India, a huge portion of temple customs are usually driven by the regional-specific culture (not finding a big time-line in history) & not from the actuals of Vedic theory. Frequently, one may find Vedic principles evident at the surface levels only. The way the deity is worshipped in a temple gives the best idea of the thinking-tendency of the mass people. Let us start with an example from our home - Believe me, there is a good percentage of devotees who consider inauspicious to worship Radha with Krishna (especially the followers of idol-based worshipping) & I have met some of them personally. They fear about the possibility of family sufferings down the line (which is reasonably based on the understanding about the pains taken by Radha for Krishna). Hopefully, they have not exactly understood the true message from 'Bhagavattam'. The same goes with 'Murali' at the hands of Krishna. These practices have become very personal to the faith of a devotee & gets passed-on to the newer generations. Nobody can challenge these practices - irrespective of the fact they appear correct or incorrect !! Another example would be 'Durga pooja' as celebrated by natives of Bengal and of Kerala. Surprisingly, even today cattle offerings are made to Durga/Kali during Navaratri which strictly deviates from the belief of a hindu keralite. But they form a part of the same 'Hindu Dharma'. This could puzzle our minds about the correctness of belief in Hindu Dharma and ofcourse no body has a clear-cut answer. The whole point behind quoting these examples is to help others understand the complexity of existing hindu beliefs which cannot be traced to it's origin. If that is possible, only then we could reconstruct our temple beliefs to its correct purpose. But is there a way out ? I would say 'yes' and it comes from the message of Vivekananda during the " World Religious conference " at Chicago. " Let's stop criticising other religions and find a way to attain religious harmony " . Let us not be a " Frog in the well " . Welcome your suggestions and comments. Hare Krishna Hare Rama guruvayur [ guruvayur ] On Behalf Of Krishna PrasadMonday, December 18, 2006 8:57 PMguruvayur@grou ps.comRe: [Guruvayur/Guruvayoor] Is it Hindu Dharma? Hari OM! Dear Nairji, Some of the temples in India have this rules of castewise discrimination. we cannot say anything about it. It is a religious issue totally. Dalits cannot forcefully enter any temple which is traditionally following the rules strictly.. there are some rules in Tantric tradition like people who have Tamasic habits or taking non-veg food, smoking, drinking etc should not enter certain places, during Tantric Prathividhis. So most of the ancient temples are followed by cetain rules.based on this traditions. After sometime we may say also we need to change Srimad Bhagawad Geetha as per to suite the modern times!.. Still we cannot say other caste people should enter Guruvayur because certain rules written by Sri Adi Shankaracharya and the Tantris of temple so we cannot change that part as we are changing the rules of Government. This is not a political issue at all. Even at Guruvayur after " Kshetra Pravesana Vilambaram " only Dalits and other so called " lower castes " among Hindus could enter the Temple. We need to stop Conversion activities of Christians in India instead first. We need all the religions all the cultures equally important to co-exist. We should not allow any particular religion to wipe out our ancient cultures. this only my opinion. never against any caste or religion. Why can't we start a movemnet for a strong Anti-Conversion Bill in India? With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 12/17/06, nbnair2000 <nbnair2000 > wrote: I wish to bring to the kind attention of all my fellow devotees ofShri Guruvayur Appan the following news item for your immediatepositive response. ******Ref. Times of India Mumbai; Dec 16, 2006; Section: Times Nation; page 12. Bhubaneswar: A day after Dalits entered a Jagannath temple atKeredagada breaking a 300-year-old ban, angry upper caste people onFriday hit back by calling a bandh in the village located in Orissa's Kendrapada district. As an easy calm prevailed in the village, temple priests expressedtheir displeasure over the Dalits' entry into the shrine built by therulers of Kanika. They shut the temple doors, stopped performing rituals and sought to " purify " the shrine. … Some of the priests and upper caste people reportedly wanted toperform `mahasnana', a ritual bath of the deities at the temple. Keeping all this in mind, the government sent an additional platoon of armed police personnel to Keredagada. … " The Dalits chose to stay at home, fearing violence,'' saidSangram Mallick, leader of the Ambedkar Lohia Vichar Manch that ledthe Dalits' campaign for the right to enter the temple. *******How could we remain mute spectators to these atrocities being perpetuated to these Hindus, on the basis of caste discrimination, bythe (responsible) Hindus in the name of God and `the 300 year old practice " ?Change is a sign of life. People or Institutions not prepared to welcome timely, desirable changes will simply decay. The very factthat the tradition is " 300 year old " itself calls for a review to assess its current social and religious validity.Before expressing my opinion on other platforms and media I would like to seek the opinion of my esteemed fellow `Guruvayur Appan Devotees'in this matter. With warm regards,NB Nair, nbnair2000 -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, " Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly! " Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. " -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!"Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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