Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Hari OM! Dear Ones, Who Wrote this give the name there are log of Christian and Muslim lobnyists in our group their only intention is just to split the Hindus. Unite all Hindus. See What this foolish Minister said last week.. Why only attack on Hinduism. this is to just take the media attention to save Paloli Muhammed kutty's case. so the main issue is Guruvayur entry I like to know Who written this article. I suspect this vijayam to be a fake id With Love & OM! May GOD Bless Krishna Prasad On 6/14/07, vijayam <nityananda7 wrote: hi friends:Pls read the following and any comments are welcome. it will be a pleasure to know specifically what will happen to the temples, if the non hindus are allowed into the temple. While discussing the ENTRY OF NON HINDUS INTO GURUVAYUR TEMPLE, let us consider both the positive and negative aspects of it: Today, even though the Guruvayur temple is opened to all the Hindus, just think how many Hindus are visiting the temple considering the overall population of the Hindus in India. When we visit the GVR temple, what percentage of non keralites do we see there? So according to my personal understanding, even if the non Hindus are going to be permitted, it is only a handful of non Hindus who have real faith in GVR will still visit the temple. The churches are left open and no body stops u from visiting a church but still how many Hindus are visiting a church?Even if Mecca or medina is going to be open to all non Muslims, how many non Muslims will be visiting?? Adi Shankaracharya set the vidhis for poojas and other ritualism. I don't think He ever set any rules as to who should be allowed inside the temple for worship. I doubt whether he prescribed any dress code either for the devotees?? It is the same Shankaracharya who installed the Devi in Mookambika temple. Then why the same regulations do not apply in Mookambika temple?? How come non Hindus are allowed there?? Why is it that the sanctum sanctorum of those temples has not been negatively affected?? Did the temples heave out negative energies when the non Brahmins and the non Nairs started into the temples?? Times have changed. People are more educated. Temples, bhakti, faith etc are not viewed in the same perceptive as was viewed many years ago Today there are more inter religious marriages. There are many couples who wish to visit the GVR temples along with their spouses but they refuse to go because the temple will not allow accompanying their spouse just because he or she is not a Hindu even though they respect each others religious faiths. But at the same time, there are thousands of Hindu families who simply accompany the husband or wife just for the sake of company even though they have no faith or belief. Today, there are thousands of westerners who have learnt and understood Hinduism (vedism) more than a Hindu, and they are waiting with the dire hope that one day they will also have access to GVR temple. Considering the above points, I see only positive aspects which will benefit a few devotees who have been waiting for ages with ardent devotion and bhakti to have one darshan of that Peethambaran who is above all discriminations…Financially; some more money will flow into it. Some bhaktajanas have pointed out that if we allow non Hindus to visit the temple, the Sanctum Sanctorum of the temple will be destroyed.When such major issues are concerned, it is not simply decided by any layman in one day. They are obviously going to be discussed by scholars and the experts in the applied subject considering the pros and cons on the impact of the changes and I am sure they will definitely look into the issues of biriyani and alcohol or bomb etc. -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!"Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Om Narayanaya, I have gone through the two opinions given by Vijayam and Krishna Prasad. It doesn't matter for me whether Vijayam is a Hindu or Non-Hindu. It is important "what said" and not "who said". We can ignore what the politicians are saying and we can also ignore their intentions. Our subject matter is whether non-hindus are to be allowed in Guruvayur Temple or not. As I written two weeks ago, I am of the view that all the devotees irrespective of their caste should be allowed to enter into the temple. These Biriyani, alcohol, bomb matters are nothing but false propaganda. Only conservative hindus can argue that non-hindus should not be allowed to GVR temple.Krishna Prasad <rkrishp99 wrote: Hari OM! Dear Ones, Who Wrote this give the name there are log of Christian and Muslim lobnyists in our group their only intention is just to split the Hindus. Unite all Hindus. See What this foolish Minister said last week.. Why only attack on Hinduism. this is to just take the media attention to save Paloli Muhammed kutty's case. so the main issue is Guruvayur entry I like to know Who written this article. I suspect this vijayam to be a fake id With Love & OM! May GOD Bless Krishna Prasad On 6/14/07, vijayam <nityananda7 > wrote: hi friends:Pls read the following and any comments are welcome. it will be a pleasure to know specifically what will happen to the temples, if the non hindus are allowed into the temple. While discussing the ENTRY OF NON HINDUS INTO GURUVAYUR TEMPLE, let us consider both the positive and negative aspects of it: Today, even though the Guruvayur temple is opened to all the Hindus, just think how many Hindus are visiting the temple considering the overall population of the Hindus in India. When we visit the GVR temple, what percentage of non keralites do we see there? So according to my personal understanding, even if the non Hindus are going to be permitted, it is only a handful of non Hindus who have real faith in GVR will still visit the temple. The churches are left open and no body stops u from visiting a church but still how many Hindus are visiting a church?Even if Mecca or medina is going to be open to all non Muslims, how many non Muslims will be visiting?? Adi Shankaracharya set the vidhis for poojas and other ritualism. I don't think He ever set any rules as to who should be allowed inside the temple for worship. I doubt whether he prescribed any dress code either for the devotees?? It is the same Shankaracharya who installed the Devi in Mookambika temple. Then why the same regulations do not apply in Mookambika temple?? How come non Hindus are allowed there?? Why is it that the sanctum sanctorum of those temples has not been negatively affected?? Did the temples heave out negative energies when the non Brahmins and the non Nairs started into the temples?? Times have changed. People are more educated. Temples, bhakti, faith etc are not viewed in the same perceptive as was viewed many years ago Today there are more inter religious marriages. There are many couples who wish to visit the GVR temples along with their spouses but they refuse to go because the temple will not allow accompanying their spouse just because he or she is not a Hindu even though they respect each others religious faiths. But at the same time, there are thousands of Hindu families who simply accompany the husband or wife just for the sake of company even though they have no faith or belief. Today, there are thousands of westerners who have learnt and understood Hinduism (vedism) more than a Hindu, and they are waiting with the dire hope that one day they will also have access to GVR temple. Considering the above points, I see only positive aspects which will benefit a few devotees who have been waiting for ages with ardent devotion and bhakti to have one darshan of that Peethambaran who is above all discriminations…Financially; some more money will flow into it. Some bhaktajanas have pointed out that if we allow non Hindus to visit the temple, the Sanctum Sanctorum of the temple will be destroyed.When such major issues are concerned, it is not simply decided by any layman in one day. They are obviously going to be discussed by scholars and the experts in the applied subject considering the pros and cons on the impact of the changes and I am sure they will definitely look into the issues of biriyani and alcohol or bomb etc. -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USDKrishna PrasadDare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, "Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly!"Swami ChinmayanandaHate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred." Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Hari OM! Om Narayanaya, What do you mean by conservative Hindu. by saying and character assasinating Hindus.we split HInduism itself. NON-HINUS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN GURUVAYUR. People who have real devotion can go to Sabarimala or Mookambika MAJORITY OF HINDUS ARE SAYING THIS. I think you too are under a fake id.. The same Guruvayurappan only in Sabarimala and Mookambika in different forms.People who are that much devoted can go there. Let Guruvayur temple be as it is with all its rules and regulations. I support M.R, Iyer and NB Nair and all real devotees in this group. Hindus have traiditions and as per Tantrika Vidhi Non-Hindus should not be allowed inside the GURUVAYUR TEMPLE Yes I am a conservative Hindu to protect Hinduism and Devotees I will do anything. Is secularism only applicable to Hindus. ANY ONE ANSWER ME WHERE THE MONEY WHICH COMES TO THE GURUVAYUR AND SABARIMALA TEMPLE GOES! where it goes. ALL TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF MINORITY COMMUNITY.. NO MORE SECULARISM INDIA IS BASICALLY A HINDU COUNTRY 85% OF US IS HINDUS. AS PRESIDENT ABDUL KALAAM RIGHTLY SAID SOON THERE SHOULD BEAN ORDINANCE FOR ONY TWO POLITICAL PARTIES!. `1.FOR HAJJ THERE IS MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT WHY CAN'T IF FOR KAILASH YATRA OR SABARIMALA IN (LOCAL TERMS) HARE GURYVAYURAPPA AGAIN NON-HINDUS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED INSIDE GURUVAYUR (FULL STOP) THERE IS NO MORE DISCUSSION ON THAT. YOU FAKE IDs. With Love & OM! Krishna Prasad On 6/15/07, Suresh P <sureshp_suja wrote: > > Om Narayanaya, > > I have gone through the two opinions given by Vijayam and Krishna Prasad. > It doesn't matter for me whether Vijayam is a Hindu or Non-Hindu. It is > important " what said " and not " who said " . We can ignore what the politicians > are saying and we can also ignore their intentions. Our subject matter is > whether non-hindus are to be allowed in Guruvayur Temple or not. As I > written two weeks ago, I am of the view that all the devotees irrespective > of their caste should be allowed to enter into the temple. These Biriyani, > alcohol, bomb matters are nothing but false propaganda. Only conservative > hindus can argue that non-hindus should not be allowed to GVR temple. > > *Krishna Prasad <rkrishp99* wrote: > > Hari OM! > > Dear Ones, > > Who Wrote this give the name there are log of Christian and Muslim > lobnyists > in our group their only intention is just to split the Hindus. > > Unite all Hindus. See What this foolish Minister said last week.. > > Why only attack on Hinduism. this is to just take the media attention > to save Paloli Muhammed kutty's case. so the main issue is Guruvayur entry > > I like to know Who written this article. I suspect this vijayam to be a > fake id > > With Love & OM! > > May GOD Bless > > Krishna Prasad > > > On 6/14/07, vijayam <nityananda7 wrote: > > > > hi friends: > > > > Pls read the following and any comments are welcome. it will be a > > pleasure to know specifically what will happen to the temples, if the non > > hindus are allowed into the temple. > > > > While discussing the ENTRY OF NON HINDUS INTO GURUVAYUR TEMPLE, let us > > consider both the positive and negative aspects of it: > > > > Today, even though the Guruvayur temple is opened to all the Hindus, > > just think how many Hindus are visiting the temple considering the overall > > population of the Hindus in India. When we visit the GVR temple, what > > percentage of non keralites do we see there? So according to my personal > > understanding, even if the non Hindus are going to be permitted, it is only > > a handful of non Hindus who have real faith in GVR will still visit the > > temple. > > > > The churches are left open and no body stops u from visiting a church > > but still > > how many Hindus are visiting a church? > > Even if Mecca or medina is going to be open to all non Muslims, how many > > non Muslims will be visiting?? > > > > Adi Shankaracharya set the vidhis for poojas and other ritualism. I > > don't think He ever set any rules as to who should be allowed inside the > > temple for worship. I doubt whether he prescribed any dress code either for > > the devotees?? > > It is the same Shankaracharya who installed the Devi in Mookambika > > temple. Then why the same regulations do not apply in Mookambika temple?? > > How come non Hindus are allowed there?? Why is it that the sanctum sanctorum > > of those temples has not been negatively affected?? Did the temples heave > > out negative energies when the non Brahmins and the non Nairs started into > > the temples?? > > > > Times have changed. People are more educated. Temples, bhakti, faith etc > > are not viewed in the same perceptive as was viewed many years ago Today > > there are more inter religious marriages. There are many couples who wish to > > visit the GVR temples along with their spouses but they refuse to go because > > the temple will not allow accompanying their spouse just because he or she > > is not a Hindu even though they respect each others religious faiths. But at > > the same time, there are thousands of Hindu families who simply accompany > > the husband or wife just for the sake of company even though they have no > > faith or belief. Today, there are thousands of westerners who have learnt > > and understood Hinduism (vedism) more than a Hindu, and they are waiting > > with the dire hope that one day they will also have access to GVR temple. > > > > Considering the above points, I see only positive aspects which will > > benefit a few devotees who have been waiting for ages with ardent devotion > > and bhakti to have one darshan of that Peethambaran who is above all > > discriminations…Financially; some more money will flow into it. > > > > Some bhaktajanas have pointed out that if we allow non Hindus to visit > > the temple, the Sanctum Sanctorum of the temple will be destroyed. > > > > When such major issues are concerned, it is not simply decided by any > > layman in one day. They are obviously going to be discussed by scholars and > > the experts in the applied subject considering the pros and cons on the > > impact of the changes and I am sure they will definitely look into the > > issues of biriyani and alcohol or bomb etc. > > > > > > > > > > -- > dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in > .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USD > > > Krishna Prasad > > Dare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' > The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. > If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. > > As Poojya Gurudev said it, > > " Open your eyes. Burst your shell. > Spread your wings and fly! " > > Swami Chinmayananda > Hate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an > excess of hatred. " > > > ------------------------------ > Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers<http://us.rd./mail/in/yanswers/*http://in.answers./> > > > -- dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in ..Org domain Names for just 2.5 USD Krishna Prasad Dare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. As Poojya Gurudev said it, " Open your eyes. Burst your shell. Spread your wings and fly! " Swami Chinmayananda Hate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an excess of hatred. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 guruvayur , " Krishna Prasad " <rkrishp99 wrote: > > Hari OM! > > Dear Ones, > > Who Wrote this give the name there are log of Christian and Muslim lobnyists > in our group their only intention is just to split the Hindus. > > Unite all Hindus. See What this foolish Minister said last week.. > > Why only attack on Hinduism. this is to just take the media attention > to save Paloli Muhammed kutty's case. so the main issue is Guruvayur entry > > I like to know Who written this article. I suspect this vijayam to be a fake > id > > With Love & OM! > > May GOD Bless > > Krishna Prasad > > > On 6/14/07, vijayam <nityananda7 wrote: > > > > hi friends: > > > > Pls read the following and any comments are welcome. it will be a pleasure > > to know specifically what will happen to the temples, if the non hindus are > > allowed into the temple. > > > > While discussing the ENTRY OF NON HINDUS INTO GURUVAYUR TEMPLE, let us > > consider both the positive and negative aspects of it: > > > > Today, even though the Guruvayur temple is opened to all the Hindus, just > > think how many Hindus are visiting the temple considering the overall > > population of the Hindus in India. When we visit the GVR temple, what > > percentage of non keralites do we see there? So according to my personal > > understanding, even if the non Hindus are going to be permitted, it is only > > a handful of non Hindus who have real faith in GVR will still visit the > > temple. > > > > The churches are left open and no body stops u from visiting a church but > > still > > how many Hindus are visiting a church? > > Even if Mecca or medina is going to be open to all non Muslims, how many > > non Muslims will be visiting?? > > > > Adi Shankaracharya set the vidhis for poojas and other ritualism. I don't > > think He ever set any rules as to who should be allowed inside the temple > > for worship. I doubt whether he prescribed any dress code either for the > > devotees?? > > It is the same Shankaracharya who installed the Devi in Mookambika temple. > > Then why the same regulations do not apply in Mookambika temple?? How come > > non Hindus are allowed there?? Why is it that the sanctum sanctorum of those > > temples has not been negatively affected?? Did the temples heave out > > negative energies when the non Brahmins and the non Nairs started into the > > temples?? > > > > Times have changed. People are more educated. Temples, bhakti, faith etc > > are not viewed in the same perceptive as was viewed many years ago Today > > there are more inter religious marriages. There are many couples who wish to > > visit the GVR temples along with their spouses but they refuse to go because > > the temple will not allow accompanying their spouse just because he or she > > is not a Hindu even though they respect each others religious faiths. But at > > the same time, there are thousands of Hindu families who simply accompany > > the husband or wife just for the sake of company even though they have no > > faith or belief. Today, there are thousands of westerners who have learnt > > and understood Hinduism (vedism) more than a Hindu, and they are waiting > > with the dire hope that one day they will also have access to GVR temple. > > > > Considering the above points, I see only positive aspects which will > > benefit a few devotees who have been waiting for ages with ardent devotion > > and bhakti to have one darshan of that Peethambaran who is above all > > discriminations…Financially; some more money will flow into it. > > > > Some bhaktajanas have pointed out that if we allow non Hindus to visit the > > temple, the Sanctum Sanctorum of the temple will be destroyed. > > > > When such major issues are concerned, it is not simply decided by any > > layman in one day. They are obviously going to be discussed by scholars and > > the experts in the applied subject considering the pros and cons on the > > impact of the changes and I am sure they will definitely look into the > > issues of biriyani and alcohol or bomb etc. > > > > > > > > > > -- > dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in > .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USD > > > Krishna Prasad > > Dare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and venture into the 'unknown' > The more we know, the more we will come to realize what we do not know. > If we want to achieve our true potential and live life to the fullest. > > As Poojya Gurudev said it, > > " Open your eyes. Burst your shell. > Spread your wings and fly! " > > Swami Chinmayananda > Hate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate the sin even with an > excess of hatred. " > HARI AUM, I had read the opinion expressed by " this vijayam " and also the comments by Krishna Prasadji. I may please be excused: I strongly object to at least some points expressed by both: 1. " …it will be a pleasure to know specifically what will happen to the temples, if the non hindus are allowed " How could you take this issue as that simple or trivial to be experimented up on and watch the result, what ever it may be, with pleasure? 2. Hope Krishna Prasadji would have read earlier posts by " this vijayam " ; and if so please don't jump into the conclusion; " this vijayam to be a fake id " . Perhaps, this is exactly what the adversaries wanted: create confusion and conflicts among the devotees. They have their own ulterior motives. What " this vijayam " had expressed is only one side of the issue. All those points are fine if only all others(?) also think in the same way as you do. But things are not that simple. Initially I too was feeling (my post dated 5th June) that no true devotee (irrespective of his birth to what ever religion) should be denied DARSAN in any place of worship. But later, after listening to the practical problems raised by many learned fellow devotees like Krishna Prasadji, Dr Mahadeva Iyer (personal communication), etc., I am convinced that each temple has its own practices and one has to consider all the probable consequences before jumping into conclusions. We can not compare Guruvayur Temple with other places of worship like a church or even Sabarimala or Mookambika Temple. The ruling parties want to divert the attention of the general public from the numerous burning issues of the State where they are failing miserably. Poor people are dying in scores every day in government hospitals; crores of rupees worth land grabbed by political parties and their cronies are being legitimized, etc. The left parties who don't believe in these worships (rather they ridicule all these) has no business in interfering in temple affairs. Changes in temple practices, if at all required, have to be considered only by the devotees and the religious bodies responsible for the same and the irresponsible threats from any other sources should never be tolerated. With warm regards to all fellow devotees, Yours affly NB Nair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Ohm Namo Narraynaya; Ohm Namo Bhagavathe Vasudevaya Dear all, These politicians will not go for fighting with Christians or Muslims because. They have unity in their religious mattes. if anybody say against them, they will oppose. But in our case............. 100 peoples will say 100 opinions. In a Church........ only Christians are allowed to to receive holly mass. And in Mecca only Muslims are allowed to enter. No body will say anything against these thongs. Because............ they worries on vote banks. Even Sudhakaran himself will not say anything. Regards Keerthi Kumar --- Krishna Prasad <rkrishp99 wrote: > Hari OM! > > Dear Ones, > > Who Wrote this give the name there are log of > Christian and Muslim lobnyists > in our group their only intention is just to split > the Hindus. > > Unite all Hindus. See What this foolish Minister > said last week.. > > Why only attack on Hinduism. this is to just take > the media attention > to save Paloli Muhammed kutty's case. so the main > issue is Guruvayur entry > > I like to know Who written this article. I suspect > this vijayam to be a fake > id > > With Love & OM! > > May GOD Bless > > Krishna Prasad > > > On 6/14/07, vijayam <nityananda7 wrote: > > > > hi friends: > > > > Pls read the following and any comments are > welcome. it will be a pleasure > > to know specifically what will happen to the > temples, if the non hindus are > > allowed into the temple. > > > > While discussing the ENTRY OF NON HINDUS INTO > GURUVAYUR TEMPLE, let us > > consider both the positive and negative aspects of > it: > > > > Today, even though the Guruvayur temple is opened > to all the Hindus, just > > think how many Hindus are visiting the temple > considering the overall > > population of the Hindus in India. When we visit > the GVR temple, what > > percentage of non keralites do we see there? So > according to my personal > > understanding, even if the non Hindus are going to > be permitted, it is only > > a handful of non Hindus who have real faith in GVR > will still visit the > > temple. > > > > The churches are left open and no body stops u > from visiting a church but > > still > > how many Hindus are visiting a church? > > Even if Mecca or medina is going to be open to all > non Muslims, how many > > non Muslims will be visiting?? > > > > Adi Shankaracharya set the vidhis for poojas and > other ritualism. I don't > > think He ever set any rules as to who should be > allowed inside the temple > > for worship. I doubt whether he prescribed any > dress code either for the > > devotees?? > > It is the same Shankaracharya who installed the > Devi in Mookambika temple. > > Then why the same regulations do not apply in > Mookambika temple?? How come > > non Hindus are allowed there?? Why is it that the > sanctum sanctorum of those > > temples has not been negatively affected?? Did the > temples heave out > > negative energies when the non Brahmins and the > non Nairs started into the > > temples?? > > > > Times have changed. People are more educated. > Temples, bhakti, faith etc > > are not viewed in the same perceptive as was > viewed many years ago Today > > there are more inter religious marriages. There > are many couples who wish to > > visit the GVR temples along with their spouses but > they refuse to go because > > the temple will not allow accompanying their > spouse just because he or she > > is not a Hindu even though they respect each > others religious faiths. But at > > the same time, there are thousands of Hindu > families who simply accompany > > the husband or wife just for the sake of company > even though they have no > > faith or belief. Today, there are thousands of > westerners who have learnt > > and understood Hinduism (vedism) more than a > Hindu, and they are waiting > > with the dire hope that one day they will also > have access to GVR temple. > > > > Considering the above points, I see only positive > aspects which will > > benefit a few devotees who have been waiting for > ages with ardent devotion > > and bhakti to have one darshan of that > Peethambaran who is above all > > discriminations…Financially; some more money will > flow into it. > > > > Some bhaktajanas have pointed out that if we allow > non Hindus to visit the > > temple, the Sanctum Sanctorum of the temple will > be destroyed. > > > > When such major issues are concerned, it is not > simply decided by any > > layman in one day. They are obviously going to be > discussed by scholars and > > the experts in the applied subject considering the > pros and cons on the > > impact of the changes and I am sure they will > definitely look into the > > issues of biriyani and alcohol or bomb etc. > > > > > > > > > > -- > dotcompals: www.dotcompals.in > .Org domain Names for just 2.5 USD > > > Krishna Prasad > > Dare to give up the comfort of the 'known' and > venture into the 'unknown' > The more we know, the more we will come to realize > what we do not know. > If we want to achieve our true potential and live > life to the fullest. > > As Poojya Gurudev said it, > > " Open your eyes. Burst your shell. > Spread your wings and fly! " > > Swami Chinmayananda > Hate not the sinner - hate the sin; and always hate > the sin even with an > excess of hatred. " > ______________________________\ ____ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. 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