sudhakaran the minister/sub-group forum?/Hindu unity-

March 14, 2008

HARI AUM

Thank you Balagopalji for almost

summing up a very important discussion so precisely and emphatically.

However, I was surprised to find

some responses of our fellow devotees.

It

would have been really an IDEAL Group if we discuss only our topic of

interest "BHAKTI" and leave all other things to OTHERS to bother

about. Perhaps

it will be almost like ourselves becoming over-smart to enjoy our

political freedom with out bothering the least for our JAWANS who have to

fight with foes across the boarders and other disruptive forces. Of course we do pay them for that!Even

so, in this case we don't have any organised or paid ARMY to fight for

preserving our (Hinhus') religious freedom.So

can we be contented with providing a separate on-line DiscussionGroup for

such people to fight for us? Too

smart a proposal indeed!

Finally, I am fully convinced of the seriousness and urgency

of the problem as explained by Shri Krishndaya and other learned devotees – no

doubt, it is very, very serious. Also,

I fully agree with Shri SRIRAM SUBRAMANIAN: "It is not Sudhakaran who needs

introspection - it is for each and everyone of us to introspect what we have

done wrong for this scenario to happen. These politicians have used the

infighting among Hindus to … meet their selfish ends. … unless we ourselves decide to change our attitude … we are

sowing the seeds of our own doom".

Also, we can't shun politicians: after all we are all

finally being ruled by them! So please unite and find some way out to protect

our genuine interests, as Balagopalji very rightly exhorts!

With warm regards to all,

Yours affectionately, nb nair.

guruvayur , balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote:>> HARI AUM> > As a group chatting in the name of 'krishna' shall> definitely look at being EFFECTIVE in their> endeavours. Discussing, expressing etc on worthy> matters are always always a healthy movement. But let> us, as Veenaji mentioned, do take a step further.> Otherwise all the efforts will fall short of 'his'> expectations who even made that powerful power point> presentation to Arjuna , that too just before the war> and midst of a battlefield, urging him to get to> ACTION.> > Regards> > Balagopal> > > --- "Veena A. Nair" veeus18 wrote:> > > Sri Rama Jayam, Vinodji.> > Nice to see your post after some gap.> > > > Although I agree that the group should focus on> > spiritual matters, I do not think that starting a> > sub-group is a solution. We already have sub-groups> > for bhajan, arogya, sanskrit classes. I feel that as> > long as the discussions on religious topics are held> > in an agreeable manner without indulging in name> > calling or showing disrespect to other members, we> > can live with it! > > > > As a short term plan and to give people a sense of> > having taken some action, we could as a group put> > together a petition citing the greivances and send> > it to the Devaswom board. We did this when the> > 'Udayasthamana pooja' issue came up. We could do it> > again. If Sunilji agrees, maybe one of the members> > could take a lead and start by putting down on paper> > all the relevant points. The document would> > basically address the wrong/absurd policies that the> > minister and hence the Devaswom are propagating and> > the likely fall out of it. And include some> > constructive suggestions.> > > > More crucially, I think the points raised by a> > couple of members about the lack of Hindu unity is> > worth pondering. Muslims and Christians have a few> > fundamental beliefs which binds them very strongly.> > And they take a lot of pride in practicing their> > beliefs. All very true. But one basic concept about> > Hinduism our leaders fail to publicize is this --> > Put aside all the devas and devis and all the> > rituals? what do you have? Hinduism in its purest> > form advocates One Supreme Power-- call it by so> > many names, see it in so many forms - the paths to> > it are various, the destination is the same; whether> > one is an advaitin or a dwaitin one has to believe> > in the eternal principle of brotherhood of man under> > the fatherhood of this one great force. In addition,> > if you are an Advaitin you will believe firmly that> > the only dharmic and one desirable goal in life is> > for man to merge with God. Now why is it that so> > many people have problems accepting this fact and> > prefer to think that my Rama> > is better than your Krishna or somebody else's God?> > I think it all boils down to the kind of education> > we give our kids and the kind of upbringing people> > have. Why is it that most convent schools have> > weekly moral science or catechism class and nobody> > to date thinks we should have a weekly Bhagavdgita> > class? Why is learning the slokas from the Gita only> > limited to some Gandhian style or so-called> > religious Hindu schools and not an order by law that> > requires every school in the state to atleast offer> > that option? I think these are fundamental issues> > that need to be addressed; as long as India> > continues to have its current style of democracy,> > and we don't have any control over who eventually> > rules us, problems are bound to happen and escalate.> > At least in some ways people like Sudhakaran are> > forthright in their views and you cannot be> > surprised by them. I think India needs to fear its> > religious leaders more who convince the average> > Hindu that his greatest problem could be> > the Muslim in the neighborhood whose lineage is to> > blame for every problem Hindus have and not the> > saffron flag wielding Hindu guy next door whose only> > service to Hinduism is very likely just wearing the> > saffron color. Like Vivekananda said, see a poor> > person, don't think giving him charity is your> > dharma - teach him a skill to earn his bread and he> > will not beg any more. You will have rescued him for> > life. Along the same lines one can say: if you have> > a child - let the Gita go through him/her atleast> > once; you will have done Hinduism a favor. I think,> > this much, every one of us can do.> > > > Om Namo Narayanaya.> > Veena.> > > > "PS, Vinod K (GE Infra, Energy)" vinod.ps > wrote: > > !! Sri Rama Jayam !! > > > > Dear Devotees,> > > > As stated by Shri Saseedharan & Shri Gopi, I repeat> > that the group in place is focussed only for> > Bhakti/spirituality related topics. The topic> > raised here has more of a religious flavour than> > spirituality. Yes, it is quite IMP to discuss such> > things as well. > > > > These kind of discussions have occurred on numerous> > occasion & most of them were left open with no> > outcome at the end. That is not what we want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Namo Narayanaya.> > Group website: http://www.guruvayoor.com/> > Monthly magazine: www.guruvayoor.com/navaneetham> > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them> > fast with Search.> > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to http://help./l/in//mail/mail/tools/tools-08.html>

March 15, 2008

It is not clear what message Sri Nair is trying to convey.

Bhakti does not mean the Bhaktas should turn a blind eye when the

templesurroundings are being polluted and and neglected and the

temple offerings being used to off-set short-fall in state revenue by

unscrupulous polititians and other individuals.

Where do the Jawans and the Indian army come into this discussion?

This is supposed to be a forum consisting of educated, intelligent

persons engaged in the devotional service of Sree Guruvayoorappan.It

is only proper that anything that is being done to offend the Lord

should be brought to light and all members made aware of. That is not

vibhakti.

The present situation is not to be solved by the armed forces.

By the way Mahatma Gandhi did not fight British injustice with guns

and swords.Please refresh your history lessons.

Jai Shree Krishna !

guruvayur , " nbnair2000 " <nbnair2000 wrote:

>

> HARI AUM

>

> Thank you Balagopalji for almost summing up a very important

discussion

> so precisely and emphatically.

>

> However, I was surprised to find some responses of our fellow

devotees.

>

> 1. It would have been really an IDEAL Group if we discuss

only

> our topic of interest " BHAKTI " and leave all other things

> to OTHERS to bother about.

> 2. Perhaps it will be almost like ourselves becoming over-

smart

> to enjoy our political freedom with out bothering the least

for our

> JAWANS who have to fight with foes across the boarders and

other

> disruptive forces. Of course we do pay them for that!

> 3. Even so, in this case we don't have any organised or

paid

> ARMY to fight for preserving our (Hinhus') religious freedom.

> 4. So can we be contented with providing a separate on-line

> DiscussionGroup for such people to fight for us? Too

smart a

> proposal indeed!

>

> Finally, I am fully convinced of the seriousness and urgency of the

> problem as explained by Shri Krishndaya and other learned devotees –

> no doubt, it is very, very serious. Also, I fully agree with Shri

> SRIRAM SUBRAMANIAN: " It is not Sudhakaran who needs introspection -

> it is for each and everyone of us to introspect what we have done

wrong

> for this scenario to happen. These politicians have used the

infighting

> among Hindus to … meet their selfish ends. … unless we

> ourselves decide to change our attitude … we are sowing the seeds of

> our own doom " .

>

> Also, we can't shun politicians: after all we are all finally being

> ruled by them! So please unite and find some way out to protect our

> genuine interests, as Balagopalji very rightly exhorts!

>

> With warm regards to all,

>

> Yours affectionately, nb nair.

>

> guruvayur , balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal@>

> wrote:

> >

> > HARI AUM

> >

> > As a group chatting in the name of 'krishna' shall

> > definitely look at being EFFECTIVE in their

> > endeavours. Discussing, expressing etc on worthy

> > matters are always always a healthy movement. But let

> > us, as Veenaji mentioned, do take a step further.

> > Otherwise all the efforts will fall short of 'his'

> > expectations who even made that powerful power point

> > presentation to Arjuna , that too just before the war

> > and midst of a battlefield, urging him to get to

> > ACTION.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Balagopal

> >

> > --- " Veena A. Nair " veeus18@ wrote:

> >

> > > Sri Rama Jayam, Vinodji.

> > > Nice to see your post after some gap.

> > >

> > > Although I agree that the group should focus on

> > > spiritual matters, I do not think that starting a

> > > sub-group is a solution. We already have sub-groups

> > > for bhajan, arogya, sanskrit classes. I feel that as

> > > long as the discussions on religious topics are held

> > > in an agreeable manner without indulging in name

> > > calling or showing disrespect to other members, we

> > > can live with it!

> > >

> > > As a short term plan and to give people a sense of

> > > having taken some action, we could as a group put

> > > together a petition citing the greivances and send

> > > it to the Devaswom board. We did this when the

> > > 'Udayasthamana pooja' issue came up. We could do it

> > > again. If Sunilji agrees, maybe one of the members

> > > could take a lead and start by putting down on paper

> > > all the relevant points. The document would

> > > basically address the wrong/absurd policies that the

> > > minister and hence the Devaswom are propagating and

> > > the likely fall out of it. And include some

> > > constructive suggestions.

> > >

> > > More crucially, I think the points raised by a

> > > couple of members about the lack of Hindu unity is

> > > worth pondering. Muslims and Christians have a few

> > > fundamental beliefs which binds them very strongly.

> > > And they take a lot of pride in practicing their

> > > beliefs. All very true. But one basic concept about

> > > Hinduism our leaders fail to publicize is this --

> > > Put aside all the devas and devis and all the

> > > rituals? what do you have? Hinduism in its purest

> > > form advocates One Supreme Power-- call it by so

> > > many names, see it in so many forms - the paths to

> > > it are various, the destination is the same; whether

> > > one is an advaitin or a dwaitin one has to believe

> > > in the eternal principle of brotherhood of man under

> > > the fatherhood of this one great force. In addition,

> > > if you are an Advaitin you will believe firmly that

> > > the only dharmic and one desirable goal in life is

> > > for man to merge with God. Now why is it that so

> > > many people have problems accepting this fact and

> > > prefer to think that my Rama

> > > is better than your Krishna or somebody else's God?

> > > I think it all boils down to the kind of education

> > > we give our kids and the kind of upbringing people

> > > have. Why is it that most convent schools have

> > > weekly moral science or catechism class and nobody

> > > to date thinks we should have a weekly Bhagavdgita

> > > class? Why is learning the slokas from the Gita only

> > > limited to some Gandhian style or so-called

> > > religious Hindu schools and not an order by law that

> > > requires every school in the state to atleast offer

> > > that option? I think these are fundamental issues

> > > that need to be addressed; as long as India

> > > continues to have its current style of democracy,

> > > and we don't have any control over who eventually

> > > rules us, problems are bound to happen and escalate.

> > > At least in some ways people like Sudhakaran are

> > > forthright in their views and you cannot be

> > > surprised by them. I think India needs to fear its

> > > religious leaders more who convince the average

> > > Hindu that his greatest problem could be

> > > the Muslim in the neighborhood whose lineage is to

> > > blame for every problem Hindus have and not the

> > > saffron flag wielding Hindu guy next door whose only

> > > service to Hinduism is very likely just wearing the

> > > saffron color. Like Vivekananda said, see a poor

> > > person, don't think giving him charity is your

> > > dharma - teach him a skill to earn his bread and he

> > > will not beg any more. You will have rescued him for

> > > life. Along the same lines one can say: if you have

> > > a child - let the Gita go through him/her atleast

> > > once; you will have done Hinduism a favor. I think,

> > > this much, every one of us can do.

> > >

> > > Om Namo Narayanaya.

> > > Veena.

> > >

> > > " PS, Vinod K (GE Infra, Energy) " vinod.ps@

> > > wrote:

> > > !! Sri Rama Jayam !!

> > >

> > > Dear Devotees,

> > >

> > > As stated by Shri Saseedharan & Shri Gopi, I repeat

> > > that the group in place is focussed only for

> > > Bhakti/spirituality related topics. The topic

> > > raised here has more of a religious flavour than

> > > spirituality. Yes, it is quite IMP to discuss such

> > > things as well.

> > >

> > > These kind of discussions have occurred on numerous

> > > occasion & most of them were left open with no

> > > outcome at the end. That is not what we want.

> > >

> > > Om Namo Narayanaya.

> > > Group website: http://www.guruvayoor.com/

> > > Monthly magazine: www.guruvayoor.com/navaneetham

> > >

> > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them

> > > fast with Search.

> >

> > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know

how,

> go to

> http://help./l/in//mail/mail/tools/tools-08.html

> >

>

March 16, 2008

HARI AUMThank you Shri "chirattapuram" for your being kindenough to go through my message and expressing your frank opinion that I failedto express myself clearly – I am sorry for the poor write-up. What I meant (let me tryagain, in short) was that it is the duty of Guruvayurappan devotees as well tofight against all sorts of encroachments and interference into "Hindu Templeadministration and Practices" by non believers, in what ever robes they may appear. Also, in the face of such serious threats tolook the other way saying that this Group is only for Bhakti (shouldthis Bhakti related forum be polluted by talking about … "saseedharan_vk",etc.) is not at all proper, in my humble opinion.However, your advice: "Please refresh your history lessons"appears a lot strange to me! Do you think swallowing down what the British "Sahibs" declared as history lessons is what you meant by this? If so, sorry – I can't think of Mahatma Gandhi with out remembering the thousands of Boses, BhagatSinghs and their likes who sacrificed their lives for the political freedom that we enjoy now. Any way, let me stop it here, as this is not the forum to discuss it in detail. With regards to all fellow devotees,Yours affectionately, nb nair. March 17, 2008 - In guruvayur , "chirattapuram" <anair1101 wrote:>> It is not clear what message Sri Nair is trying to convey.> Bhakti does not mean the Bhaktas should turn a blind eye when the > templesurroundings are being polluted and and neglected and the > temple offerings being used to off-set short-fall in state revenue by > unscrupulous polititians and other individuals. > Where do the Jawans and the Indian army come into this discussion? > This is supposed to be a forum consisting of educated, intelligent > persons engaged in the devotional service of Sree Guruvayoorappan.It > is only proper that anything that is being done to offend the Lord > should be brought to light and all members made aware of. That is not > vibhakti.> The present situation is not to be solved by the armed forces. > By the way Mahatma Gandhi did not fight British injustice with guns > and swords.Please refresh your history lessons.> > Jai Shree Krishna !> > > > > guruvayur , "nbnair2000" nbnair2000@ wrote:> >> > > > HARI AUM> > > > Thank you Balagopalji for almost summing up a very important > discussion> > so precisely and emphatically.> > > > However, I was surprised to find some responses of our fellow > devotees.> > > > 1. It would have been really an IDEAL Group if we discuss > only> > our topic of interest "BHAKTI" and leave all other things> > to OTHERS to bother about.> > 2. Perhaps it will be almost like ourselves becoming over-> smart> > to enjoy our political freedom with out bothering the least > for our> > JAWANS who have to fight with foes across the boarders and > other> > disruptive forces. Of course we do pay them for that!> > 3. Even so, in this case we don't have any organised or > paid> > ARMY to fight for preserving our (Hinhus') religious freedom.> > 4. So can we be contented with providing a separate on-line> > DiscussionGroup for such people to fight for us? Too > smart a> > proposal indeed!> > > > Finally, I am fully convinced of the seriousness and urgency of the> > problem as explained by Shri Krishndaya and other learned devotees –> > no doubt, it is very, very serious. Also, I fully agree with Shri> > SRIRAM SUBRAMANIAN: "It is not Sudhakaran who needs introspection -> > it is for each and everyone of us to introspect what we have done > wrong> > for this scenario to happen. These politicians have used the > infighting> > among Hindus to … meet their selfish ends. … unless we> > ourselves decide to change our attitude … we are sowing the seeds of> > our own doom".> > > > Also, we can't shun politicians: after all we are all finally being> > ruled by them! So please unite and find some way out to protect our> > genuine interests, as Balagopalji very rightly exhorts!> > > > With warm regards to all,> > > > Yours affectionately, nb nair.> > > > guruvayur , balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal@>> > wrote:> > >> > > HARI AUM> > >> > > As a group chatting in the name of 'krishna' shall> > > definitely look at being EFFECTIVE in their> > > endeavours. Discussing, expressing etc on worthy> > > matters are always always a healthy movement. But let> > > us, as Veenaji mentioned, do take a step further.> > > Otherwise all the efforts will fall short of 'his'> > > expectations who even made that powerful power point> > > presentation to Arjuna , that too just before the war> > > and midst of a battlefield, urging him to get to> > > ACTION.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Balagopal> > >> > >> > > --- "Veena A. Nair" veeus18@ wrote:> > >> > > > Sri Rama Jayam, Vinodji.> > > > Nice to see your post after some gap.> > > >> > > > Although I agree that the group should focus on> > > > spiritual matters, I do not think that starting a> > > > sub-group is a solution. We already have sub-groups> > > > for bhajan, arogya, sanskrit classes. I feel that as> > > > long as the discussions on religious topics are held> > > > in an agreeable manner without indulging in name> > > > calling or showing disrespect to other members, we> > > > can live with it!> > > >> > > > As a short term plan and to give people a sense of> > > > having taken some action, we could as a group put> > > > together a petition citing the greivances and send> > > > it to the Devaswom board. We did this when the> > > > 'Udayasthamana pooja' issue came up. We could do it> > > > again. If Sunilji agrees, maybe one of the members> > > > could take a lead and start by putting down on paper> > > > all the relevant points. The document would> > > > basically address the wrong/absurd policies that the> > > > minister and hence the Devaswom are propagating and> > > > the likely fall out of it. And include some> > > > constructive suggestions.> > > >> > > > More crucially, I think the points raised by a> > > > couple of members about the lack of Hindu unity is> > > > worth pondering. Muslims and Christians have a few> > > > fundamental beliefs which binds them very strongly.> > > > And they take a lot of pride in practicing their> > > > beliefs. All very true. But one basic concept about> > > > Hinduism our leaders fail to publicize is this --> > > > Put aside all the devas and devis and all the> > > > rituals? what do you have? Hinduism in its purest> > > > form advocates One Supreme Power-- call it by so> > > > many names, see it in so many forms - the paths to> > > > it are various, the destination is the same; whether> > > > one is an advaitin or a dwaitin one has to believe> > > > in the eternal principle of brotherhood of man under> > > > the fatherhood of this one great force. In addition,> > > > if you are an Advaitin you will believe firmly that> > > > the only dharmic and one desirable goal in life is> > > > for man to merge with God. Now why is it that so> > > > many people have problems accepting this fact and> > > > prefer to think that my Rama> > > > is better than your Krishna or somebody else's God?> > > > I think it all boils down to the kind of education> > > > we give our kids and the kind of upbringing people> > > > have. Why is it that most convent schools have> > > > weekly moral science or catechism class and nobody> > > > to date thinks we should have a weekly Bhagavdgita> > > > class? Why is learning the slokas from the Gita only> > > > limited to some Gandhian style or so-called> > > > religious Hindu schools and not an order by law that> > > > requires every school in the state to atleast offer> > > > that option? I think these are fundamental issues> > > > that need to be addressed; as long as India> > > > continues to have its current style of democracy,> > > > and we don't have any control over who eventually> > > > rules us, problems are bound to happen and escalate.> > > > At least in some ways people like Sudhakaran are> > > > forthright in their views and you cannot be> > > > surprised by them. I think India needs to fear its> > > > religious leaders more who convince the average> > > > Hindu that his greatest problem could be> > > > the Muslim in the neighborhood whose lineage is to> > > > blame for every problem Hindus have and not the> > > > saffron flag wielding Hindu guy next door whose only> > > > service to Hinduism is very likely just wearing the> > > > saffron color. Like Vivekananda said, see a poor> > > > person, don't think giving him charity is your> > > > dharma - teach him a skill to earn his bread and he> > > > will not beg any more. You will have rescued him for> > > > life. Along the same lines one can say: if you have> > > > a child - let the Gita go through him/her atleast> > > > once; you will have done Hinduism a favor. I think,> > > > this much, every one of us can do.> > > >> > > > Om Namo Narayanaya.> > > > Veena.> > > >> > > > "PS, Vinod K (GE Infra, Energy)" vinod.ps@> > > > wrote:> > > > !! Sri Rama Jayam !!> > > >> > > > Dear Devotees,> > > >> > > > As stated by Shri Saseedharan & Shri Gopi, I repeat> > > > that the group in place is focussed only for> > > > Bhakti/spirituality related topics. The topic> > > > raised here has more of a religious flavour than> > > > spirituality. Yes, it is quite IMP to discuss such> > > > things as well.> > > >> > > > These kind of discussions have occurred on numerous> > > > occasion & most of them were left open with no> > > > outcome at the end. That is not what we want.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Om Namo Narayanaya.> > > > Group website: http://www.guruvayoor.com/> > > > Monthly magazine: www.guruvayoor.com/navaneetham> > > >> > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them> > > > fast with Search.> > >> > >> > >> > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know > how,> > go to> > http://help./l/in//mail/mail/tools/tools-08.html> > >> >>