Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations.2. Do you believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not mere stories or facts from history? IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour. If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Dear friends and devotees, Bhakti is eternal. Yes. Every devotee, who desirous to follow Hinduism and Sanatana Dharma should understand these main precepts, and act accordingly. If it is considered that Ramayana, Mahabharata and Bhagavata are fiction and stories only, then the question of any God or temples does not exist and the work of devotees like our brother Sunil and others will be a waste and everything can be wound up. What is required is faith. Having no faith on Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas and Ithihasas etc, the existence of God in the minds will be obviated and then, it is nothing but atheism. The man who has no faith in himself can have no faith in anybody; he cannot have faith in God. Make Vishwasa (faith) your Shwasa (life breath). I am aware of the fact that everyone in this group is most devotional and also knowledgeable. Being a new entrant to the group, I am obligated to make the remarks. Hope all will reconcile. With love and regards, Sastry --- On Wed, 7/29/09, sarojram18 <sarojram18 wrote: sarojram18 <sarojram18[Guruvayur] Ramayanaguruvayur Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 2:22 AM I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations. 2. Do you believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not mere stories or facts from history? IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour.If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Gurvayoorappa, Dear Devotees of the Lord, Maha Kavi Kalidasan has said: “ puranamithyevana sadhu sarvvam, nachapi kavyam navamithyvadyam, santha pareekshyanyataram bhajante, moodda para pratyayaneya budhi:”, meaning like; All our Scriptures are not cent percent true to facts. Using our wisdom, past experience, our Preceptors’ valuable advice etc. should be taken into account before analyzing and accepting the good ones from them. It is quite unwise to accept them as such and it is not at all possible too. The word ’Purana’ means ‘narratives of ancient times’. Puranas are mostly mytho-historical; mythology combined with history. They reflect some social, political, religious, and artistic culture of our ancient India. The universal truth of devotion, justice and generosity, portrayed by the role models in the ancient Indian context, hold the same significance even today. The narratives, therefore create deep impressions in our minds. The puranic stories reveal that before every incarnation, there is a collective appeal to the Lord, in the form of prayers from the devotees, aswell as Devas. They seek the Lord’s help to re-establish Dharma, after destroying the wicked people. Then how can we approach these Scriptures and what can we do with those things? “ ananta sastram bahuveditavya- malpaschakalo bahuvascha vikhna: yat sarabhootam tadupasitavyam, hamso Yatha ksheeramivambu misram.”, meaning like; Scriptures are immense, but life is short. There are many hindrances on our way too. So, we should try to imbibe the quintessence only, as if a Swan is drinking milk alone from a mixture of milk and water. Our ancient Hindu Scriptures are so voluminous that all the Scriptures of other religions put together, will come to only half of ours. Approximately more than 1280 ‘Maha Granthangal’ are there, in different languages, with more than 10, 000 commentaries, more than one lakh of sub-commentaries, for these foundation books. The Scriptures altogether reveal 330 million Gods, a huge variety of ‘acharas’, stories of hundreds of thousands of Rishis, among so many other precious things. Our Scriptures embody Sanatana Dharma, which is the entire edifice of Indian Prennial Philosophical Thoughts, the treasure house and reservoir of our cultural heritage, and supposed to be the breath of Lord. It is unique. One thing also we must remember in this context as laid down by Maha Kavi Kalidasa, again: “ ithara papa phalani yatheschaya, kali kithani sakhe chathuranana, arasikeshu kavitva nivedanam, sirasi malika malika malyaka “, in short meaning like: We should never share our Scriptures with ‘arasikas’ and those who are never interested in them. Hope Poojya Gurudevs will correct mistakes in the above writing. It went little lengthy, kindly forgive me, Padaravindame Saranam, Guruvayoorappa Saranam, mpr Thank you, Have a great day, mprnair, nairradhakrishnan. guruvayur [guruvayur ] On Behalf Of sarojram18 Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23 PM guruvayur [Guruvayur] Ramayana I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations.2. Do you believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not mere stories or facts from history? IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour. If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Hari Om WE all, at least members of this group believe in the existence of a mjestic force , otherwise GOD incarnate in the form of Paramathma. Sages, Pundits, Scholars and Swamis have tried to explain this divine presence in different versons at different paces of history. WE believe in God and have unconditional faith in but what the majority of us have is BLIND FAITH, God gave brains to differentiate between the right things to believe in and the wrong things to reject. Ramayana, one of the hindu Scriptures was written by Muni Valmiki thousands of years ago. Valmiki wrote the Story of Rama based on his memory and primarily from imagination and inpiration. Whether the contents of the book are what really transpired is anyone's guess because there is no witness, and what the Sage wrote was accepted as words of God. This is so because there was noone scholarly enough in those days to analyse it and those few who had knowledge of the Vedas were instrumental in distorting and misinterpreting these books. So what remained is a mixture of facts and non-facts. We all read Ramayana, Gita, Bhagavtam and other holy books but very few try to grasp the meaning and the message they contain. Most of us read them like robots, without giving it a second thought or without trying to reach a logical conclusion of the gist of the matter. Using our discretion is not Vibhakti or a mortal sin. THe saying goes : " The individual has read Ramayana from cover to cover several times but still trying to figure out the reltionship between Rama and Sita. " jai shree krishna ! Achuthan Nair guruvayur , " mprnair " <nairradhakrishnan wrote: > > Gurvayoorappa, > > Dear Devotees of the Lord, > > Maha Kavi Kalidasan has said: > > " puranamithyevana sadhu sarvvam, > > nachapi kavyam navamithyvadyam, > > santha pareekshyanyataram bhajante, > > moodda para pratyayaneya budhi: " , meaning like; > > All our Scriptures are not cent percent true to facts. Using our > wisdom, past experience, > > our Preceptors' valuable advice etc. should be taken into account > before analyzing and accepting > > the good ones from them. It is quite unwise to accept them as such > and it is not at all possible too. > > The word 'Purana' means 'narratives of ancient times'. Puranas are > mostly mytho-historical; mythology > > combined with history. They reflect some social, political, > religious, and artistic culture of our ancient > > India. The universal truth of devotion, justice and generosity, > portrayed by the role models in > > the ancient Indian context, hold the same significance even today. > The narratives, therefore > > create deep impressions in our minds. The puranic stories reveal > that before every incarnation, > > there is a collective appeal to the Lord, in the form of prayers > from the devotees, aswell as Devas. > > They seek the Lord's help to re-establish Dharma, after destroying > the wicked people. > > Then how can we approach these Scriptures and what can we do with > those things? > > " ananta sastram bahuveditavya- > > malpaschakalo bahuvascha vikhna: > > yat sarabhootam tadupasitavyam, > > hamso Yatha ksheeramivambu misram. " , meaning like; > > Scriptures are immense, but life is short. There are many > hindrances on our way too. So, we should > > try to imbibe the quintessence only, as if a Swan is drinking milk > alone from a mixture of milk and water. > > Our ancient Hindu Scriptures are so voluminous that all the > Scriptures of other religions put together, > > will come to only half of ours. Approximately more than 1280 'Maha > Granthangal' are there, in different > > languages, with more than 10, 000 commentaries, more than one lakh > of sub-commentaries, for these > > foundation books. The Scriptures altogether reveal 330 million > Gods, a huge variety of 'acharas', stories of > > hundreds of thousands of Rishis, among so many other precious > things. Our Scriptures embody Sanatana Dharma, > > which is the entire edifice of Indian Prennial Philosophical > Thoughts, the treasure house and reservoir of > > our cultural heritage, and supposed to be the breath of Lord. It > is unique. > > One thing also we must remember in this context as laid down by > Maha Kavi Kalidasa, again: > > " ithara papa phalani yatheschaya, > > kali kithani sakhe chathuranana, > > arasikeshu kavitva nivedanam, > > sirasi malika malika malyaka " , in short meaning like: > > We should never share our Scriptures with 'arasikas' and those > who are never interested in them. > > Hope Poojya Gurudevs will correct mistakes in the above > writing. > > It went little lengthy, kindly forgive me, > > Padaravindame Saranam, Guruvayoorappa Saranam, > > mpr > > Thank you, > > Have a great day, > > mprnair, > > nairradhakrishnan > > > > > _____ > > guruvayur [guruvayur ] On Behalf > Of sarojram18 > Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23 PM > guruvayur > [Guruvayur] Ramayana > > > > > > I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts > raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you > should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations.2. Do you > believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not > mere stories or facts from history? > > IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either > historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the > characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of > Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour. > > If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings > were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the > members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These > things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more > to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 I accept your version with my own reservations.But your wordings that just becoz I hv to accept whatever is said to continue in the Group does not look nice,anmd I am not for any 'vidhanda vadham on this score. --- On Wed, 29/7/09, sarojram18 <sarojram18 wrote: sarojram18 <sarojram18[Guruvayur] Ramayanaguruvayur Date: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 7:52 AM I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations. 2. Do you believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not mere stories or facts from history? IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour.If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end. Looking for local information? Find it on Local Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 It is a fabulous thought and shuld be pondered by all.Even the existence of God came thru 'vichara' or finding out the truth and many souls are there even at present who hv the divine experience by undergoing arduous austerities and came to the iconclusion of the existence of a Super Natural Power which runs all the shows in the Cosmos and to inculcate faith in mankind the realised souls of yore gave different names for Deities of the One Force and we follow the same.Valmiki was a grteat sage and wrote his Ramayana from the thoughts that came to his mind and it is not to be taken whatever he wrote must also be the real happenings whether one has devotion to God or accept Rama,Krishna as the incarnations of the Cosmic Force which is nameless ,formless and takes the form of the people who worship accordeing to their faith.When Valmiki wrote Ramayana he was having in his mind that Rama was a virtually a purusha of unquestioning virtues which subsequently prove that he too could err in his activities.This has nothing to do with faith in him.It is also an absurd thought emanating from a mind that jsut becoz Rama is dubbed as an avatar whatevr Valmiki wrote shuld also be accepted in toto.That comes out of blind faith in Valmikis writings than in Rama.Ramayana was written more than 5000 yearsback and the human beings hv made much evolution due to the efflex of Tkime and the same process will continue that after 1000 years whatever novels written today may accepted as real. So one must be discreminatory in thoughts and simply following whatever written in puranas carry no weight .In that case whatever written in Bible,Quaran also shuld be accepted as if the same hv happened without questioning.Humanity can develop only thru such thinking and not blindily following whatever was written thousands of years ago.That will only take us to stone age era and no forward thopughts willc ever come.In this we hv to follow such great souls like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa,Ramana Maharishi,Yogananda who never said anything abt Valmiki or Ramayana but could be able to define God.So just by reading Rmayana one has to accept Rama as the only person of Dharma Incarnated and all other characters portrayed are not does not hold water.This has nothing to do with one's faith in Rama but even such great person cpould sometimes commit mistakes.That is the only point to be stressed and not about his other traits. --- On Thu, 30/7/09, anair1101 <anair1101 wrote: anair1101 <anair1101[Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur Date: Thursday, 30 July, 2009, 12:45 AM Hari OmWE all, at least members of this group believe in the existence of a mjestic force , otherwise GOD incarnate in the form of Paramathma. Sages, Pundits, Scholars and Swamis have tried to explain this divine presence in different versons at different paces of history.WE believe in God and have unconditional faith in but what the majority of us have is BLIND FAITH, God gave brains to differentiate between the right things to believe in and the wrong things to reject. Ramayana, one of the hindu Scriptures was written by Muni Valmiki thousands of years ago. Valmiki wrote the Story of Rama based on his memory and primarily from imagination and inpiration. Whether the contents of the book are what really transpired is anyone's guess because there is no witness, and what the Sage wrote was accepted as words of God. This is so because there was noone scholarly enough in those days to analyse it and those few who had knowledge of the Vedas were instrumental in distorting and misinterpreting these books. So what remained is a mixture of facts and non-facts. We all read Ramayana, Gita, Bhagavtam and other holy books but very few try to grasp the meaning and the message they contain. Most of us read them like robots, without giving it a second thought or without trying to reach a logical conclusion of the gist of the matter. Using our discretion is not Vibhakti or a mortal sin. THe saying goes :"The individual has read Ramayana from cover to cover several times but still trying to figure out the reltionship between Rama and Sita." jai shree krishna !Achuthan Nairguruvayur@grou ps.com, "mprnair" <nairradhakrishnan@ ...> wrote:>> Gurvayoorappa,> > Dear Devotees of the Lord,> > Maha Kavi Kalidasan has said:> > " puranamithyevana sadhu sarvvam, > > nachapi kavyam navamithyvadyam,> > santha pareekshyanyataram bhajante,> > moodda para pratyayaneya budhi:", meaning like;> > All our Scriptures are not cent percent true to facts. Using our> wisdom, past experience, > > our Preceptors' valuable advice etc. should be taken into account> before analyzing and accepting > > the good ones from them. It is quite unwise to accept them as such> and it is not at all possible too.> > The word 'Purana' means 'narratives of ancient times'. Puranas are> mostly mytho-historical; mythology > > combined with history. They reflect some social, political,> religious, and artistic culture of our ancient > > India. The universal truth of devotion, justice and generosity,> portrayed by the role models in > > the ancient Indian context, hold the same significance even today.> The narratives, therefore > > create deep impressions in our minds. The puranic stories reveal> that before every incarnation, > > there is a collective appeal to the Lord, in the form of prayers> from the devotees, aswell as Devas. > > They seek the Lord's help to re-establish Dharma, after destroying> the wicked people.> > Then how can we approach these Scriptures and what can we do with> those things?> > " ananta sastram bahuveditavya-> > malpaschakalo bahuvascha vikhna:> > yat sarabhootam tadupasitavyam,> > hamso Yatha ksheeramivambu misram.", meaning like;> > Scriptures are immense, but life is short. There are many> hindrances on our way too. So, we should > > try to imbibe the quintessence only, as if a Swan is drinking milk> alone from a mixture of milk and water.> > Our ancient Hindu Scriptures are so voluminous that all the> Scriptures of other religions put together,> > will come to only half of ours. Approximately more than 1280 'Maha> Granthangal' are there, in different > > languages, with more than 10, 000 commentaries, more than one lakh> of sub-commentaries, for these > > foundation books. The Scriptures altogether reveal 330 million> Gods, a huge variety of 'acharas', stories of > > hundreds of thousands of Rishis, among so many other precious> things. Our Scriptures embody Sanatana Dharma,> > which is the entire edifice of Indian Prennial Philosophical> Thoughts, the treasure house and reservoir of > > our cultural heritage, and supposed to be the breath of Lord. It> is unique.> > One thing also we must remember in this context as laid down by> Maha Kavi Kalidasa, again:> > " ithara papa phalani yatheschaya,> > kali kithani sakhe chathuranana,> > arasikeshu kavitva nivedanam,> > sirasi malika malika malyaka ", in short meaning like:> > We should never share our Scriptures with 'arasikas' and those> who are never interested in them.> > Hope Poojya Gurudevs will correct mistakes in the above> writing.> > It went little lengthy, kindly forgive me,> > Padaravindame Saranam, Guruvayoorappa Saranam,> > mpr > > Thank you,> > Have a great day,> > mprnair,> > nairradhakrishnan@ ...> > > > > _____ > > guruvayur@grou ps.com [guruvayur@grou ps.com] On Behalf> Of sarojram18> Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23 PM> guruvayur@grou ps.com> [Guruvayur] Ramayana> > > > > > I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts> raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you> should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations. 2. Do you> believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not> mere stories or facts from history? > > IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either> historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the> characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of> Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour.> > If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings> were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the> members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These> things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more> to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end.> recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I did not mean that you have to accept what ever said , to be in this group. What I meant was that people inthis group are not atheists and bekleive in God and our sciptures.As I have said before the puranas and ithihasas are valuable not for the story but for the message they contain. I am against moodabhakthi and I am of the opinion that you shoud go beyond the text and understand the inne meaning..To say that there were no scholars in those times to correct and examine the works of Valmiki and Vyasa and the sages were giving distorted version of scriptures is like saying that the the earth is not round but flat becasue one does not see it as such. before kake such sweeping statementsone must first read the scriptures thoruoghly in order to prove that they are dostortations. The upanishat says and the Gita reiterates that the knowledge of the Absolute reality is that by which everything else becomes known.Further, bidhyanthe hrdhayagranThiH chidhyanthe sarva smsayaaH ksheeyanthe asya karmaaNi thasmin dhrshte paraavare, meaning that everything is fully understood only when one has the Brahmasakshatahkara. All of us with nio exeption are only in the lowest rung of the ladder of knowledge and to pass judgement about the profound truths which could not be understood by the intellect as it is beyond the comprehension of the intellect , as it is said in the upanishat yatho vaacho nivarthanthe apraapya mansaa saha, from which the speech and mind returns without attaining it,is the only the paraprathyayaneyabudDhi as said by Kalidasa. We are swayed by the so called radical thinkers who is trying to argue without getting deep into the subject matter, because they lack understanding and the matrerialists who do not want to understand. The very word sage measn wise and to say that we atre wiser that than the sages is a height of folly.By the way what Kalidasa meant by puraanan is not what we understand by puraanam but only that which is old. puraanvam +puraaNam that whaich was new once upon a time. He was referring to his own worke through the mouth odf one of the characters of his play Malavikagnimithra, that his work should not be judged wrongly just because it is unknown earlier.. . Dr. SarojaRamanujam , M.A., Ph.D, sanskritsiromanireply to sarojram18 and to get the previous posts-_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I have no contention with this view however. Blind faith is a sbad as atheism and atheism does not mean denial of God but the denial of scriptures.Whatever Rama did may not be correct judgimg from our standards but the behaviour of any character in any work not only ithihasa should be viewed from their standards. rama f did whatnhe thought was tright in upholding dharma. Rama was flawless except for one or two acts which are beiing cticised even now but we should remember that Vali was satisfied and praised Rama for his act, and Seetha , who used to remonstrate with Rama on other occasions , accepted his action witthout questioning , as being right. By the way Rama did not kill Vali from behind the tree and there as no mention of ti ineither Valmiki or Kamban. The Valivadha had so many facets which will be xplained in my writings on Ramayana of Kishkindhakanda of which I am midway being prevented by other works which require immediate attention. You have the right perception regarding the concept of God and religion, Ganapthiraman but till we reach the state of Ramakrishna and others we need to worship God in form and Rama and Krishna or any form of God is necessary and has to be divinised. Krishna di dso many things but he wasproclaimed as the supreme Lord throughout of his incarnation and what ever he did was the will if God and cannot be questioned. Rama was portrayed as a human only and hence all this criticism, though Valmiki has enough eveidence that he was Narayana incarnate.saroja Ramanujam . Dr. SarojaRamanujam , M.A., Ph.D, sanskritsiromanireply to sarojram18 and to get the previous posts--- On Thu, 7/30/09, GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 wrote:GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 1:55 AM It is a fabulous thought and shuld be pondered by all.Even the existence of God came thru 'vichara' or finding out the truth and many souls are there even at present who hv the divine experience by undergoing arduous austerities and came to the iconclusion of the existence of a Super Natural Power which runs all the shows in the Cosmos and to inculcate faith in mankind the realised souls of yore gave different names for Deities of the One Force and we follow the same.Valmiki was a grteat sage and wrote his Ramayana from the thoughts that came to his mind and it is not to be taken whatever he wrote must also be the real happenings whether one has devotion to God or accept Rama,Krishna as the incarnations of the Cosmic Force which is nameless ,formless and takes the form of the people who worship accordeing to their faith.When Valmiki wrote Ramayana he was having in his mind that Rama was a virtually a purusha of unquestioning virtues which subsequently prove that he too could err in his activities.This has nothing to do with faith in him.It is also an absurd thought emanating from a mind that jsut becoz Rama is dubbed as an avatar whatevr Valmiki wrote shuld also be accepted in toto.That comes out of blind faith in Valmikis writings than in Rama.Ramayana was written more than 5000 yearsback and the human beings hv made much evolution due to the efflex of Tkime and the same process will continue that after 1000 years whatever novels written today may accepted as real. So one must be discreminatory in thoughts and simply following whatever written in puranas carry no weight .In that case whatever written in Bible,Quaran also shuld be accepted as if the same hv happened without questioning. Humanity can develop only thru such thinking and not blindily following whatever was written thousands of years ago.That will only take us to stone age era and no forward thopughts willc ever come.In this we hv to follow such great souls like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi,Yogananda who never said anything abt Valmiki or Ramayana but could be able to define God.So just by reading Rmayana one has to accept Rama as the only person of Dharma Incarnated and all other characters portrayed are not does not hold water.This has nothing to do with one's faith in Rama but even such great person cpould sometimes commit mistakes.That is the only point to be stressed and not about his other traits. --- On Thu, 30/7/09, anair1101 <anair1101 > wrote: anair1101 <anair1101 >[Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, 30 July, 2009, 12:45 AM Hari OmWE all, at least members of this group believe in the existence of a mjestic force , otherwise GOD incarnate in the form of Paramathma. Sages, Pundits, Scholars and Swamis have tried to explain this divine presence in different versons at different paces of history.WE believe in God and have unconditional faith in but what the majority of us have is BLIND FAITH, God gave brains to differentiate between the right things to believe in and the wrong things to reject. Ramayana, one of the hindu Scriptures was written by Muni Valmiki thousands of years ago. Valmiki wrote the Story of Rama based on his memory and primarily from imagination and inpiration. Whether the contents of the book are what really transpired is anyone's guess because there is no witness, and what the Sage wrote was accepted as words of God. This is so because there was noone scholarly enough in those days to analyse it and those few who had knowledge of the Vedas were instrumental in distorting and misinterpreting these books. So what remained is a mixture of facts and non-facts. We all read Ramayana, Gita, Bhagavtam and other holy books but very few try to grasp the meaning and the message they contain. Most of us read them like robots, without giving it a second thought or without trying to reach a logical conclusion of the gist of the matter. Using our discretion is not Vibhakti or a mortal sin. THe saying goes :"The individual has read Ramayana from cover to cover several times but still trying to figure out the reltionship between Rama and Sita." jai shree krishna !Achuthan Nairguruvayur@grou ps.com, "mprnair" <nairradhakrishnan@ ...> wrote:>> Gurvayoorappa,> > Dear Devotees of the Lord,> > Maha Kavi Kalidasan has said:> > " puranamithyevana sadhu sarvvam, > > nachapi kavyam navamithyvadyam,> > santha pareekshyanyataram bhajante,> > moodda para pratyayaneya budhi:", meaning like;> > All our Scriptures are not cent percent true to facts. Using our> wisdom, past experience, > > our Preceptors' valuable advice etc. should be taken into account> before analyzing and accepting > > the good ones from them. It is quite unwise to accept them as such> and it is not at all possible too.> > The word 'Purana' means 'narratives of ancient times'. Puranas are> mostly mytho-historical; mythology > > combined with history. They reflect some social, political,> religious, and artistic culture of our ancient > > India. The universal truth of devotion, justice and generosity,> portrayed by the role models in > > the ancient Indian context, hold the same significance even today.> The narratives, therefore > > create deep impressions in our minds. The puranic stories reveal> that before every incarnation, > > there is a collective appeal to the Lord, in the form of prayers> from the devotees, aswell as Devas. > > They seek the Lord's help to re-establish Dharma, after destroying> the wicked people.> > Then how can we approach these Scriptures and what can we do with> those things?> > " ananta sastram bahuveditavya-> > malpaschakalo bahuvascha vikhna:> > yat sarabhootam tadupasitavyam,> > hamso Yatha ksheeramivambu misram.", meaning like;> > Scriptures are immense, but life is short. There are many> hindrances on our way too. So, we should > > try to imbibe the quintessence only, as if a Swan is drinking milk> alone from a mixture of milk and water.> > Our ancient Hindu Scriptures are so voluminous that all the> Scriptures of other religions put together,> > will come to only half of ours. Approximately more than 1280 'Maha> Granthangal' are there, in different > > languages, with more than 10, 000 commentaries, more than one lakh> of sub-commentaries, for these > > foundation books. The Scriptures altogether reveal 330 million> Gods, a huge variety of 'acharas', stories of > > hundreds of thousands of Rishis, among so many other precious> things. Our Scriptures embody Sanatana Dharma,> > which is the entire edifice of Indian Prennial Philosophical> Thoughts, the treasure house and reservoir of > > our cultural heritage, and supposed to be the breath of Lord. It> is unique.> > One thing also we must remember in this context as laid down by> Maha Kavi Kalidasa, again:> > " ithara papa phalani yatheschaya,> > kali kithani sakhe chathuranana,> > arasikeshu kavitva nivedanam,> > sirasi malika malika malyaka ", in short meaning like:> > We should never share our Scriptures with 'arasikas' and those> who are never interested in them.> > Hope Poojya Gurudevs will correct mistakes in the above> writing.> > It went little lengthy, kindly forgive me,> > Padaravindame Saranam, Guruvayoorappa Saranam,> > mpr > > Thank you,> > Have a great day,> > mprnair,> > nairradhakrishnan@ ...> > > > > _____ > > guruvayur@grou ps.com [guruvayur@grou ps.com] On Behalf> Of sarojram18> Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23 PM> guruvayur@grou ps.com> [Guruvayur] Ramayana> > > > > > I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts> raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you> should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations. 2. Do you> believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not> mere stories or facts from history? > > IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either> historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the> characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of> Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour.> > If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings> were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the> members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These> things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more> to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end.> recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Dear All, Good Morning !! The current state of Kerala came into existence after India's independence. Sri Parasu Rama being a great revolutionary leader used his Axe to bring better social order in this part of the world when the social set up was not in order. He installed several Shiva, Devi, Vishnu & Sastha temples, brought priests and teachers from other parts of India to this place, taught them Thanthra Rahasyam, developed fine arts in relation to the temples etc.. . Thus is the sole cause for the social and cultural development of this land. I think this process of social change/ reformation can be regarded as " Parasurama Created Keralam". In Ithihyamala & Sthalapurana's it is stated that the land of Kerala is very clearly stated in Ramayana, Mahabharatha & people of Kerala were ruled by King Mahabali. Kindly request all knowledgeable members of this group to through light in this logical thought process. With Prayers, Rajasekhar K G Manama Kingdom of Bahrain. guruvayur [guruvayur ]On Behalf Of GANAPATHY RAMANWednesday, July 29, 2009 11:25 PMguruvayur Subject: Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Ramayana It is a fabulous thought and shuld be pondered by all.Even the existence of God came thru 'vichara' or finding out the truth and many souls are there even at present who hv the divine experience by undergoing arduous austerities and came to the iconclusion of the existence of a Super Natural Power which runs all the shows in the Cosmos and to inculcate faith in mankind the realised souls of yore gave different names for Deities of the One Force and we follow the same.Valmiki was a grteat sage and wrote his Ramayana from the thoughts that came to his mind and it is not to be taken whatever he wrote must also be the real happenings whether one has devotion to God or accept Rama,Krishna as the incarnations of the Cosmic Force which is nameless ,formless and takes the form of the people who worship accordeing to their faith.When Valmiki wrote Ramayana he was having in his mind that Rama was a virtually a purusha of unquestioning virtues which subsequently prove that he too could err in his activities.This has nothing to do with faith in him.It is also an absurd thought emanating from a mind that jsut becoz Rama is dubbed as an avatar whatevr Valmiki wrote shuld also be accepted in toto.That comes out of blind faith in Valmikis writings than in Rama.Ramayana was written more than 5000 yearsback and the human beings hv made much evolution due to the efflex of Tkime and the same process will continue that after 1000 years whatever novels written today may accepted as real. So one must be discreminatory in thoughts and simply following whatever written in puranas carry no weight .In that case whatever written in Bible,Quaran also shuld be accepted as if the same hv happened without questioning.Humanity can develop only thru such thinking and not blindily following whatever was written thousands of years ago.That will only take us to stone age era and no forward thopughts willc ever come.In this we hv to follow such great souls like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa,Ramana Maharishi,Yogananda who never said anything abt Valmiki or Ramayana but could be able to define God.So just by reading Rmayana one has to accept Rama as the only person of Dharma Incarnated and all other characters portrayed are not does not hold water.This has nothing to do with one's faith in Rama but even such great person cpould sometimes commit mistakes.That is the only point to be stressed and not about his other traits. --- On Thu, 30/7/09, anair1101 <anair1101 > wrote: anair1101 <anair1101 >[Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur Date: Thursday, 30 July, 2009, 12:45 AM Hari OmWE all, at least members of this group believe in the existence of a mjestic force , otherwise GOD incarnate in the form of Paramathma. Sages, Pundits, Scholars and Swamis have tried to explain this divine presence in different versons at different paces of history.WE believe in God and have unconditional faith in but what the majority of us have is BLIND FAITH, God gave brains to differentiate between the right things to believe in and the wrong things to reject. Ramayana, one of the hindu Scriptures was written by Muni Valmiki thousands of years ago. Valmiki wrote the Story of Rama based on his memory and primarily from imagination and inpiration. Whether the contents of the book are what really transpired is anyone's guess because there is no witness, and what the Sage wrote was accepted as words of God. This is so because there was noone scholarly enough in those days to analyse it and those few who had knowledge of the Vedas were instrumental in distorting and misinterpreting these books. So what remained is a mixture of facts and non-facts. We all read Ramayana, Gita, Bhagavtam and other holy books but very few try to grasp the meaning and the message they contain. Most of us read them like robots, without giving it a second thought or without trying to reach a logical conclusion of the gist of the matter. Using our discretion is not Vibhakti or a mortal sin. THe saying goes :"The individual has read Ramayana from cover to cover several times but still trying to figure out the reltionship between Rama and Sita." jai shree krishna !Achuthan Nairguruvayur@grou ps.com, "mprnair" <nairradhakrishnan@ ...> wrote:>> Gurvayoorappa,> > Dear Devotees of the Lord,> > Maha Kavi Kalidasan has said:> > " puranamithyevana sadhu sarvvam, > > nachapi kavyam navamithyvadyam,> > santha pareekshyanyataram bhajante,> > moodda para pratyayaneya budhi:", meaning like;> > All our Scriptures are not cent percent true to facts. Using our> wisdom, past experience, > > our Preceptors' valuable advice etc. should be taken into account> before analyzing and accepting > > the good ones from them. It is quite unwise to accept them as such> and it is not at all possible too.> > The word 'Purana' means 'narratives of ancient times'. Puranas are> mostly mytho-historical; mythology > > combined with history. They reflect some social, political,> religious, and artistic culture of our ancient > > India. The universal truth of devotion, justice and generosity,> portrayed by the role models in > > the ancient Indian context, hold the same significance even today.> The narratives, therefore > > create deep impressions in our minds. The puranic stories reveal> that before every incarnation, > > there is a collective appeal to the Lord, in the form of prayers> from the devotees, aswell as Devas. > > They seek the Lord's help to re-establish Dharma, after destroying> the wicked people.> > Then how can we approach these Scriptures and what can we do with> those things?> > " ananta sastram bahuveditavya-> > malpaschakalo bahuvascha vikhna:> > yat sarabhootam tadupasitavyam,> > hamso Yatha ksheeramivambu misram.", meaning like;> > Scriptures are immense, but life is short. There are many> hindrances on our way too. So, we should > > try to imbibe the quintessence only, as if a Swan is drinking milk> alone from a mixture of milk and water.> > Our ancient Hindu Scriptures are so voluminous that all the> Scriptures of other religions put together,> > will come to only half of ours. Approximately more than 1280 'Maha> Granthangal' are there, in different > > languages, with more than 10, 000 commentaries, more than one lakh> of sub-commentaries, for these > > foundation books. The Scriptures altogether reveal 330 million> Gods, a huge variety of 'acharas', stories of > > hundreds of thousands of Rishis, among so many other precious> things. Our Scriptures embody Sanatana Dharma,> > which is the entire edifice of Indian Prennial Philosophical> Thoughts, the treasure house and reservoir of > > our cultural heritage, and supposed to be the breath of Lord. It> is unique.> > One thing also we must remember in this context as laid down by> Maha Kavi Kalidasa, again:> > " ithara papa phalani yatheschaya,> > kali kithani sakhe chathuranana,> > arasikeshu kavitva nivedanam,> > sirasi malika malika malyaka ", in short meaning like:> > We should never share our Scriptures with 'arasikas' and those> who are never interested in them.> > Hope Poojya Gurudevs will correct mistakes in the above> writing.> > It went little lengthy, kindly forgive me,> > Padaravindame Saranam, Guruvayoorappa Saranam,> > mpr > > Thank you,> > Have a great day,> > mprnair,> > nairradhakrishnan@ ...> > > > > _____ > > guruvayur@grou ps.com [guruvayur@grou ps.com] On Behalf> Of sarojram18> Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23 PM> guruvayur@grou ps.com> [Guruvayur] Ramayana> > > > > > I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts> raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you> should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations. 2. Do you> believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not> mere stories or facts from history? > > IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either> historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the> characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of> Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour.> > If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings> were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the> members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These> things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more> to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end.> recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hariom.This is to inform all our GVR.group members that we have "ADHYATMA RAMAYANA SAPTAHAM" at guruvayur Parthasarathy temple from2nd-9th of AUGUST,2009.Mahatmya parayanam and Prabhashanam at 4 pm. on sunday,2nd.from 3-9th:-Sahasranamajapam at 6.30 am;Ramayanam Parayanam and Prabhashanam 7 am-12.30and 2-6pm with intervals 4 br.fast,tea and lunch,provided at temple premises.Last day samarpanam 11.30 am Samooharchana,Dakshina and Yagnaprasada follow.Prayers and Blessings of all are solicited ACHARYA;A.K.PRABHAKARJI. all are welcome.prabhakarji, C/0 GUruvayurappan,gvr.--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Saroja Ramanujam <sarojram18 wrote:Saroja Ramanujam <sarojram18Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 7:54 AM I have no contention with this view however. Blind faith is a sbad as atheism and atheism does not mean denial of God but the denial of scriptures.Whatever Rama did may not be correct judgimg from our standards but the behaviour of any character in any work not only ithihasa should be viewed from their standards. rama f did whatnhe thought was tright in upholding dharma. Rama was flawless except for one or two acts which are beiing cticised even now but we should remember that Vali was satisfied and praised Rama for his act, and Seetha , who used to remonstrate with Rama on other occasions , accepted his action witthout questioning , as being right. By the way Rama did not kill Vali from behind the tree and there as no mention of ti ineither Valmiki or Kamban. The Valivadha had so many facets which will be xplained in my writings on Ramayana of Kishkindhakanda of which I am midway being prevented by other works which require immediate attention. You have the right perception regarding the concept of God and religion, Ganapthiraman but till we reach the state of Ramakrishna and others we need to worship God in form and Rama and Krishna or any form of God is necessary and has to be divinised. Krishna di dso many things but he wasproclaimed as the supreme Lord throughout of his incarnation and what ever he did was the will if God and cannot be questioned. Rama was portrayed as a human only and hence all this criticism, though Valmiki has enough eveidence that he was Narayana incarnate.saroja Ramanujam . Dr. SarojaRamanujam , M.A., Ph.D, sanskritsiromanireply to sarojram18 (AT) gmail (DOT) com and to get the previous posts--- On Thu, 7/30/09, GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 (AT) (DOT) co.in>Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, July 30, 2009, 1:55 AM It is a fabulous thought and shuld be pondered by all.Even the existence of God came thru 'vichara' or finding out the truth and many souls are there even at present who hv the divine experience by undergoing arduous austerities and came to the iconclusion of the existence of a Super Natural Power which runs all the shows in the Cosmos and to inculcate faith in mankind the realised souls of yore gave different names for Deities of the One Force and we follow the same.Valmiki was a grteat sage and wrote his Ramayana from the thoughts that came to his mind and it is not to be taken whatever he wrote must also be the real happenings whether one has devotion to God or accept Rama,Krishna as the incarnations of the Cosmic Force which is nameless ,formless and takes the form of the people who worship accordeing to their faith.When Valmiki wrote Ramayana he was having in his mind that Rama was a virtually a purusha of unquestioning virtues which subsequently prove that he too could err in his activities.This has nothing to do with faith in him.It is also an absurd thought emanating from a mind that jsut becoz Rama is dubbed as an avatar whatevr Valmiki wrote shuld also be accepted in toto.That comes out of blind faith in Valmikis writings than in Rama.Ramayana was written more than 5000 yearsback and the human beings hv made much evolution due to the efflex of Tkime and the same process will continue that after 1000 years whatever novels written today may accepted as real. So one must be discreminatory in thoughts and simply following whatever written in puranas carry no weight .In that case whatever written in Bible,Quaran also shuld be accepted as if the same hv happened without questioning. Humanity can develop only thru such thinking and not blindily following whatever was written thousands of years ago.That will only take us to stone age era and no forward thopughts willc ever come.In this we hv to follow such great souls like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi,Yogananda who never said anything abt Valmiki or Ramayana but could be able to define God.So just by reading Rmayana one has to accept Rama as the only person of Dharma Incarnated and all other characters portrayed are not does not hold water.This has nothing to do with one's faith in Rama but even such great person cpould sometimes commit mistakes.That is the only point to be stressed and not about his other traits. --- On Thu, 30/7/09, anair1101 <anair1101 > wrote: anair1101 <anair1101 >[Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, 30 July, 2009, 12:45 AM Hari OmWE all, at least members of this group believe in the existence of a mjestic force , otherwise GOD incarnate in the form of Paramathma. Sages, Pundits, Scholars and Swamis have tried to explain this divine presence in different versons at different paces of history.WE believe in God and have unconditional faith in but what the majority of us have is BLIND FAITH, God gave brains to differentiate between the right things to believe in and the wrong things to reject. Ramayana, one of the hindu Scriptures was written by Muni Valmiki thousands of years ago. Valmiki wrote the Story of Rama based on his memory and primarily from imagination and inpiration. Whether the contents of the book are what really transpired is anyone's guess because there is no witness, and what the Sage wrote was accepted as words of God. This is so because there was noone scholarly enough in those days to analyse it and those few who had knowledge of the Vedas were instrumental in distorting and misinterpreting these books. So what remained is a mixture of facts and non-facts. We all read Ramayana, Gita, Bhagavtam and other holy books but very few try to grasp the meaning and the message they contain. Most of us read them like robots, without giving it a second thought or without trying to reach a logical conclusion of the gist of the matter. Using our discretion is not Vibhakti or a mortal sin. THe saying goes :"The individual has read Ramayana from cover to cover several times but still trying to figure out the reltionship between Rama and Sita." jai shree krishna !Achuthan Nairguruvayur@grou ps.com, "mprnair" <nairradhakrishnan@ ...> wrote:>> Gurvayoorappa,> > Dear Devotees of the Lord,> > Maha Kavi Kalidasan has said:> > " puranamithyevana sadhu sarvvam, > > nachapi kavyam navamithyvadyam,> > santha pareekshyanyataram bhajante,> > moodda para pratyayaneya budhi:", meaning like;> > All our Scriptures are not cent percent true to facts. Using our> wisdom, past experience, > > our Preceptors' valuable advice etc. should be taken into account> before analyzing and accepting > > the good ones from them. It is quite unwise to accept them as such> and it is not at all possible too.> > The word 'Purana' means 'narratives of ancient times'. Puranas are> mostly mytho-historical; mythology > > combined with history. They reflect some social, political,> religious, and artistic culture of our ancient > > India. The universal truth of devotion, justice and generosity,> portrayed by the role models in > > the ancient Indian context, hold the same significance even today.> The narratives, therefore > > create deep impressions in our minds. The puranic stories reveal> that before every incarnation, > > there is a collective appeal to the Lord, in the form of prayers> from the devotees, aswell as Devas. > > They seek the Lord's help to re-establish Dharma, after destroying> the wicked people.> > Then how can we approach these Scriptures and what can we do with> those things?> > " ananta sastram bahuveditavya-> > malpaschakalo bahuvascha vikhna:> > yat sarabhootam tadupasitavyam,> > hamso Yatha ksheeramivambu misram.", meaning like;> > Scriptures are immense, but life is short. There are many> hindrances on our way too. So, we should > > try to imbibe the quintessence only, as if a Swan is drinking milk> alone from a mixture of milk and water.> > Our ancient Hindu Scriptures are so voluminous that all the> Scriptures of other religions put together,> > will come to only half of ours. Approximately more than 1280 'Maha> Granthangal' are there, in different > > languages, with more than 10, 000 commentaries, more than one lakh> of sub-commentaries, for these > > foundation books. The Scriptures altogether reveal 330 million> Gods, a huge variety of 'acharas', stories of > > hundreds of thousands of Rishis, among so many other precious> things. Our Scriptures embody Sanatana Dharma,> > which is the entire edifice of Indian Prennial Philosophical> Thoughts, the treasure house and reservoir of > > our cultural heritage, and supposed to be the breath of Lord. It> is unique.> > One thing also we must remember in this context as laid down by> Maha Kavi Kalidasa, again:> > " ithara papa phalani yatheschaya,> > kali kithani sakhe chathuranana,> > arasikeshu kavitva nivedanam,> > sirasi malika malika malyaka ", in short meaning like:> > We should never share our Scriptures with 'arasikas' and those> who are never interested in them.> > Hope Poojya Gurudevs will correct mistakes in the above> writing.> > It went little lengthy, kindly forgive me,> > Padaravindame Saranam, Guruvayoorappa Saranam,> > mpr > > Thank you,> > Have a great day,> > mprnair,> > nairradhakrishnan@ ...> > > > > _____ > > guruvayur@grou ps.com [guruvayur@grou ps.com] On Behalf> Of sarojram18> Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23 PM> guruvayur@grou ps.com> [Guruvayur] Ramayana> > > > > > I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts> raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you> should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations. 2. Do you> believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not> mere stories or facts from history? > > IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either> historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the> characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of> Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour.> > If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings> were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the> members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These> things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more> to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end.> recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I fully accept whatever you hv pointed out, Dr.Sarojam and I hv not replied to show that I am superior in knowledge than others but just felt that Rama could hv been more generous in his actions in the case of Sita and it is a different matter whether Sita accepted the punishment meted out to her but Rama being the King shuld hv the magnanimity to ignore the wordings of others and could hv rectified the misunderstanding by some other means instead of banishing Sita which seemed to be cruel eventhough he might hv thought that in that way he did a dharma act.Even an ordinary individual would not hv taken such an extreme step esp. when his wife was pregnant.That was the only point ,of course the same was discussed by several people and I just said the same thing and not to find fault with him.However I think the same is coming in Uthara kanda and there is a opinion that the same was not written by Valmiki but by somebody to complete the story.Whatever be the facts let us close this unnecessary arguments which do not carry us any further and treat the same as closed. With regrads, agraman--- On Thu, 30/7/09, Saroja Ramanujam <sarojram18 wrote: Saroja Ramanujam <sarojram18Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur Date: Thursday, 30 July, 2009, 7:54 AM I have no contention with this view however. Blind faith is a sbad as atheism and atheism does not mean denial of God but the denial of scriptures.Whatever Rama did may not be correct judgimg from our standards but the behaviour of any character in any work not only ithihasa should be viewed from their standards. rama f did whatnhe thought was tright in upholding dharma. Rama was flawless except for one or two acts which are beiing cticised even now but we should remember that Vali was satisfied and praised Rama for his act, and Seetha , who used to remonstrate with Rama on other occasions , accepted his action witthout questioning , as being right. By the way Rama did not kill Vali from behind the tree and there as no mention of ti ineither Valmiki or Kamban. The Valivadha had so many facets which will be xplained in my writings on Ramayana of Kishkindhakanda of which I am midway being prevented by other works which require immediate attention. You have the right perception regarding the concept of God and religion, Ganapthiraman but till we reach the state of Ramakrishna and others we need to worship God in form and Rama and Krishna or any form of God is necessary and has to be divinised. Krishna di dso many things but he wasproclaimed as the supreme Lord throughout of his incarnation and what ever he did was the will if God and cannot be questioned. Rama was portrayed as a human only and hence all this criticism, though Valmiki has enough eveidence that he was Narayana incarnate.saroja Ramanujam . Dr. SarojaRamanujam , M.A., Ph.D, sanskritsiromani reply to sarojram18 (AT) gmail (DOT) com and to get the previous posts--- On Thu, 7/30/09, GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: GANAPATHY RAMAN <agraman62 (AT) (DOT) co.in>Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, July 30, 2009, 1:55 AM It is a fabulous thought and shuld be pondered by all.Even the existence of God came thru 'vichara' or finding out the truth and many souls are there even at present who hv the divine experience by undergoing arduous austerities and came to the iconclusion of the existence of a Super Natural Power which runs all the shows in the Cosmos and to inculcate faith in mankind the realised souls of yore gave different names for Deities of the One Force and we follow the same.Valmiki was a grteat sage and wrote his Ramayana from the thoughts that came to his mind and it is not to be taken whatever he wrote must also be the real happenings whether one has devotion to God or accept Rama,Krishna as the incarnations of the Cosmic Force which is nameless ,formless and takes the form of the people who worship accordeing to their faith.When Valmiki wrote Ramayana he was having in his mind that Rama was a virtually a purusha of unquestioning virtues which subsequently prove that he too could err in his activities.This has nothing to do with faith in him.It is also an absurd thought emanating from a mind that jsut becoz Rama is dubbed as an avatar whatevr Valmiki wrote shuld also be accepted in toto.That comes out of blind faith in Valmikis writings than in Rama.Ramayana was written more than 5000 yearsback and the human beings hv made much evolution due to the efflex of Tkime and the same process will continue that after 1000 years whatever novels written today may accepted as real. So one must be discreminatory in thoughts and simply following whatever written in puranas carry no weight .In that case whatever written in Bible,Quaran also shuld be accepted as if the same hv happened without questioning. Humanity can develop only thru such thinking and not blindily following whatever was written thousands of years ago.That will only take us to stone age era and no forward thopughts willc ever come.In this we hv to follow such great souls like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharishi,Yogananda who never said anything abt Valmiki or Ramayana but could be able to define God.So just by reading Rmayana one has to accept Rama as the only person of Dharma Incarnated and all other characters portrayed are not does not hold water.This has nothing to do with one's faith in Rama but even such great person cpould sometimes commit mistakes.That is the only point to be stressed and not about his other traits. --- On Thu, 30/7/09, anair1101 <anair1101 > wrote: anair1101 <anair1101 >[Guruvayur] Re: Ramayanaguruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, 30 July, 2009, 12:45 AM Hari OmWE all, at least members of this group believe in the existence of a mjestic force , otherwise GOD incarnate in the form of Paramathma. Sages, Pundits, Scholars and Swamis have tried to explain this divine presence in different versons at different paces of history.WE believe in God and have unconditional faith in but what the majority of us have is BLIND FAITH, God gave brains to differentiate between the right things to believe in and the wrong things to reject. Ramayana, one of the hindu Scriptures was written by Muni Valmiki thousands of years ago. Valmiki wrote the Story of Rama based on his memory and primarily from imagination and inpiration. Whether the contents of the book are what really transpired is anyone's guess because there is no witness, and what the Sage wrote was accepted as words of God. This is so because there was noone scholarly enough in those days to analyse it and those few who had knowledge of the Vedas were instrumental in distorting and misinterpreting these books. So what remained is a mixture of facts and non-facts. We all read Ramayana, Gita, Bhagavtam and other holy books but very few try to grasp the meaning and the message they contain. Most of us read them like robots, without giving it a second thought or without trying to reach a logical conclusion of the gist of the matter. Using our discretion is not Vibhakti or a mortal sin. THe saying goes :"The individual has read Ramayana from cover to cover several times but still trying to figure out the reltionship between Rama and Sita." jai shree krishna !Achuthan Nairguruvayur@grou ps.com, "mprnair" <nairradhakrishnan@ ...> wrote:>> Gurvayoorappa,> > Dear Devotees of the Lord,> > Maha Kavi Kalidasan has said:> > " puranamithyevana sadhu sarvvam, > > nachapi kavyam navamithyvadyam,> > santha pareekshyanyataram bhajante,> > moodda para pratyayaneya budhi:", meaning like;> > All our Scriptures are not cent percent true to facts. Using our> wisdom, past experience, > > our Preceptors' valuable advice etc. should be taken into account> before analyzing and accepting > > the good ones from them. It is quite unwise to accept them as such> and it is not at all possible too.> > The word 'Purana' means 'narratives of ancient times'. Puranas are> mostly mytho-historical; mythology > > combined with history. They reflect some social, political,> religious, and artistic culture of our ancient > > India. The universal truth of devotion, justice and generosity,> portrayed by the role models in > > the ancient Indian context, hold the same significance even today.> The narratives, therefore > > create deep impressions in our minds. The puranic stories reveal> that before every incarnation, > > there is a collective appeal to the Lord, in the form of prayers> from the devotees, aswell as Devas. > > They seek the Lord's help to re-establish Dharma, after destroying> the wicked people.> > Then how can we approach these Scriptures and what can we do with> those things?> > " ananta sastram bahuveditavya-> > malpaschakalo bahuvascha vikhna:> > yat sarabhootam tadupasitavyam,> > hamso Yatha ksheeramivambu misram.", meaning like;> > Scriptures are immense, but life is short. There are many> hindrances on our way too. So, we should > > try to imbibe the quintessence only, as if a Swan is drinking milk> alone from a mixture of milk and water.> > Our ancient Hindu Scriptures are so voluminous that all the> Scriptures of other religions put together,> > will come to only half of ours. Approximately more than 1280 'Maha> Granthangal' are there, in different > > languages, with more than 10, 000 commentaries, more than one lakh> of sub-commentaries, for these > > foundation books. The Scriptures altogether reveal 330 million> Gods, a huge variety of 'acharas', stories of > > hundreds of thousands of Rishis, among so many other precious> things. Our Scriptures embody Sanatana Dharma,> > which is the entire edifice of Indian Prennial Philosophical> Thoughts, the treasure house and reservoir of > > our cultural heritage, and supposed to be the breath of Lord. It> is unique.> > One thing also we must remember in this context as laid down by> Maha Kavi Kalidasa, again:> > " ithara papa phalani yatheschaya,> > kali kithani sakhe chathuranana,> > arasikeshu kavitva nivedanam,> > sirasi malika malika malyaka ", in short meaning like:> > We should never share our Scriptures with 'arasikas' and those> who are never interested in them.> > Hope Poojya Gurudevs will correct mistakes in the above> writing.> > It went little lengthy, kindly forgive me,> > Padaravindame Saranam, Guruvayoorappa Saranam,> > mpr > > Thank you,> > Have a great day,> > mprnair,> > nairradhakrishnan@ ...> > > > > _____ > > guruvayur@grou ps.com [guruvayur@grou ps.com] On Behalf> Of sarojram18> Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23 PM> guruvayur@grou ps.com> [Guruvayur] Ramayana> > > > > > I am reproducing my earlier post where I have explained some of the doubts> raised in this thread. With respect to ithihasas and puranas two things you> should bear in mind. 1. Do you believe that they are incarnations. 2. Do you> believe that they are written in order to give a message to humanity and not> mere stories or facts from history? > > IF you do not believe either of the two they become only fiction either> historical or otherwise. Then there is no question of discussion about the> characters which is like discussing whether the characters in the novel of> Alexander Dumas or Thomas hardy was right or wrong in their behaviour.> > If you believe that Rama and Krishna were incarnations and the happenings> were due to the will of the Lord, which should be pretty obvious to the> members of this group as otherwise you would not be in this group, These> things can be explained as I have done below.I do not want to add any more> to this discussion which in my opinion taking a turn to an undesirable end.> recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. 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