For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends, Pardon me, earlier, I accidentally clicked the send button. Sorry for it. Here is the message. Here it is.---Dear Nairji, Savitriji and others,

Abstain from

eating the flesh of dead creatures. Living organisms are to be loved, not

eaten. Vegetarians are perhaps not totally non-violent. But they are certainly

a few notches above the flesh-eaters in the ladder of non-violence.

Non-vegetarianism is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, nor even

for the body. Saints and spiritual masters have invariably advocated

vegetarianism. Non-vegetarianism distorts the basic character of man. This

universe is the manifestation of but one mind. Alienation between one mind and

another mind is unnatural. The mind of man is in no way different from the mind

of any other creature. Love an insect, and it can be seen that it reciprocates.

Salvation is the ultimate outcome of non-violence.

The above

are not my words. This was said by Shree Vidyaadhiraaja Chattampi Swamikal.

Consuming pure Vegetarian food is very good in every sense. But even vegetarian

food can also be harm full if we don’t make the proper selection. Recently I

read that the silver colored thin lining using to cover the sweets we get in

Indian stores all over the world is animal products which lot of us doesn’t

know.

I have seen

some of you are thinking of becoming vegan also. That can also be little tricky

if we don’t make the proper selection of food. For processed food, look at the

labels. See if contains harmful chemical. Also find out how vegetables are

grown. If you can grow them yourself, do so. Majority of people who are

thinking of turning vegan is probably considering it because of the cruelty to

the animals in obtaining milk and milk products. Now, there are stores where

you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with out the torture

of the cow and calf. Another point considered is after the production stage is passed;

the cows are killed and eaten. New let us think what happen if we don’t use

Milk products, will it stop that killing. I don’t think so. What is then we can

do?

In my

opinion also, the best thing to do is to educate people at the grassroots level

about the good and bad of eating habits. That can be done in many ways. And as

Nairji said, that is what I do. I had lot of critics for doing this. Some even sent

me very nasty emails in response to my email signatures. Some argued with me

saying that Hindus are meat eaters. The funniest thing was that it was all the

so-called Hindus who did this. But I just kept it on and varied between flesh, alcohol,

drugs and soda. I am happy that it worked and I had few communications from

Guruvayur group members also saying that my messages did encourage them to change

over. Even some people who opposed me have come around and turned vegetarians

now. I strongly believe that every thing we do, we say and we write do produce

energy and it travels and do make changes. Even talking when none is listening

can have effects. So keep writing about

it, talking about it. It will bring results.

As Nairji

said I don’t think we can stop the killing by taking any drastic step. So the

best thing is to do is turn vegetarian and encourage people to do so. If you

want to be vegan, make sure the substitutes you use are made with out animal

products and chemicals. And if you use milk products get the products made in a

humane way and take action to educate people on the good and bad of it all.

The same way

if elephants or any other animal is used to any purpose, Temples or in labor force, it must be with compassion

and with out hurting them. For all these we can educate people. If some people

feel that there should be a separate organization go ahead and do so. Also keep

the work on a person to person level. Any opportunities you get to express and

educate people about it do so.

I am of the

opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present group. Form

another group and discuss it there and go from there. Mean while do what ever

you can. Email signatures, bumper stickers on your car, small labels on the

mail you send by post office. If you use printed stationary, print some slogan

on it. Use your own wording and quotes from Spiritual Masters and famous people

like Gandhi and Heroes like BheeshmAchArya. These all are good tools to educate

people.

Also there

are organizations doing similar work already and if any one wants they can join

them. For that last several years I am a member of PETA. PETA is in India also now.

And remember, some times they can get little too aggressive. That may not do

much good and may even turn counter productive.

Wish you all

healthy eating and successful educating.

Thanks.

SincerelyUdhayabhanu Panickaraum namaHShivaaya LET US NOT MAKE OUR STOMACH A GRAVEYARD. LET US NOT EAT FLESH.LET US BE VEGETARIANS AND STAY HEALTHY. Animals are to be loved, not eaten. Eating flesh is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, not even for the body. It distorts the basic character of human.

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Savitri Puram <savitriopuram wrote:Savitri Puram

<savitriopuramRe: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group."NBhaskaran Nair" <nbnair2000Cc: "Achuthan Nair" <anair1101, "Gopala Krishnan" <gopalkrishna25, "Indu" <sowparnika999, "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv, "Kamlesh" <veryytterium, "marath Gopalakrishnan Nair" <mgk2007.nair, "Nair GG" <ggnair51, "Sukumaran Thampi" <nsukruti, "Sukumaran Thampi" <TRSThampi, "Udayabhanu Panickar" <udhayabhanupanickar, "Bhaskaran Nair" <nbnairMonday, November 23, 2009, 2:42 PMDear Nairji,

 

I perfectly agree with you and I also think that it should start at the grass root level. As you mentioned, we have to clean up ourselves before worrying about how dirty others are.

 

 

As Nairji said, in one of my earlier mails I said that Guruvayurappan or any other God or Goddess will not be happy to see an elephant being treated like this and we should introduce a look alike, life -size elephant made of wood or any other material with movable ears and trunk etc so that with nettippattom, beautiful rope ,melanki and other ornaments, it will almost look like a real elephant and we are not hurting any living being. Aren't we using "aal roopam" and different parts of our body made of silver, like eyes, ears etc to offer at His feet? Isn't a symbolic offering of our parts of the body or ourselves to Bhagavaan? In the modern day Yaagams, they are using cows made of rice dough or "arimaavu" instead of a live cow. Also for Pashuddaanam" I have seen people giving money, a dhothi etc and with sincere sankalppam of giving a cow , give it to the deserving person.

 

In the past, when I shared my loud thinking, reaction was negative and forceful.So to avoid this unpleasant feelings in our Bhakthi group, I did not want to continue the discussion. This is my humble outlook about this. I believe in Sankalppam and Shankaracharyar has said: "I made these maanasa Poojaas because power of sankalppam brings sankalppa siddhi."

 

There is no end to the cruelty towards other animals like cows, whales, seals etc. and especially cows. Also the circus animals are victims of harsh and unkind treatment, I am not sure how we can decrease the abuse except by creating awareness in people in our own family, our friends and those who come in contact with us.

 

 

Regards and prayers

 

Savitri

 

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM, NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000 wrote:

 

 

Hi,This is for your special attn and comments if any pl.urs affly nb nair.

 

NB Nair, Scientific Officer(Retired), Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Bombay.Phone # 09869030507.

 

The Golden Conduct-Rule applicable to almost all religions:Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto YouRef. Religion for Dummies. ISBN: 07645-5264-3, page: 34.

 

 

 

----- Forwarded Message ----

nbn <nbnair2000guruvayur

Mon, 23 November, 2009 9:55:52 AM[Guruvayur] Re: Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

 

 

 

HARI AUMIt is heartening to learn that people, individually and in groups are out tofeed hapless animals, give them shelter, etc. But I sincerely appeal toall concerned: don't waste your much valuable time and energy "to stopkilling by others".

Once we believe vegetarianism is good we can always plead for it, advise othersto change over, etc., like what our Panickerji does through his appeals alwaysgiven under his signature in all mails. But who are we to stopkilling by "others"? At least, as far as we continue the practice ofHIMSA, very nakedly, in the name of "Devotion to GOD", we don't haveany genuine right to impose AHIMSA on "others" - it will be HYPOCRISYin its naked form - "My way and the Wrong Way" policy.

On our own Guruvayur Group Forum many of our members had described how we treatour "Cow Matas" in the so-called modern farms. By hormonetreatments we enlarge their stomachs and udders out of proportion, byartificial insemination we make them give birth without intervals, take awaythe young ones from their mothers, male progenies for immediate butchering andthe females for artificial feeds and hormone treatments to continue the cycleof torture. After all these life-longtorture at the end they are also butchered: instead it would have been morehumane if they are butchered right away so that they don't have to undergo allthose sufferings. Hence the cow milkthat we get these days are more a product of SIN than meat! Like cows our temple elephants are alsodoomed for their lives, once in our custody. They never get a day's normal life. So before embarking on

cleaning the neighbourhood let us try to cleanour own house to the extent possible – let us use our time and energy for thatwith utmost priority.

Before accusing "OTHERS" look into a mirror, look within,and make that image worth worshipping, heed Gurudeva's Advice.

WithDue Respects for all,

ursaffly nb nair.guruvayur@grou ps.com, Veryytterium <veryytterium@ ...> wrote:

>> namo narayana> ย > Respected Sir,> ย > Thank you for your emils regarding the abuse of the elephants.> ย > It is very disturbing when we see the horrendous ill-treatment and exploitation ofย animals especially in the name of devotion/religion.

> ย > Is it needed to show our devotion by pouring a gallon of milk, curd or ghee on to the Lord- knowing that to obtain this milk many cows have to suffer endlessly by having their calves killed and milked dry till they bleed?

> ย > Do we have to feast on paal-payasams, ghee soaked chakra pongal in the garb of offering it to the Lord, when the calves of these cows are starved to death? We can fool ourselves but not Him and the Laws of Karma.

> ย > Has Lord Krishna ever demanded these things under such sinful deeds?? And can we expect the Lord to ever be pleased with all these "offerings" which are so tamasic and cruel in nature?> ย

> We do have alternatives, we can perform the same abhisekhams with auspicious dhravyams such as turmeric water, coconut water, rose water, tulasi water, saffron-cardomum water ....... the list is endless.> ย

> We can also offer Him the best naivedhyams which are sattvic in nature.> ย > All He wants is just some fruit, flower, a leaf and water, along with loads of true devotion and love not only for Him but for all His animals too.

> ย > We all must stop these atrocities in the name of "devotion" and support Go-shalas. > ย > We have all consumed milk from the cow, who is akin to our own mother. While we take care of our mothers with such love and respect, can we expect our four-legged "mother" who has fed us her milk all her life, to be abused all her life and then killed in the worst possible manner?

> ย > Please think about it and if convincedย please support those individuals who care for these abandoned old cows in Go-shalas.> ย > Sincerely,> Kamlesh> ย > P.S: Please read about the Eight flowers of devotion to Lord Vishnu in this context

> ย > ahimsA prathamam pushpam pushpam indriya nigraha: I > sarva bhUtha dayA pushpam kshamA pushpam visEshadha : jnAnam pushpam Tapa: pushpam DhyAnam pushpam tadhaiva cha I > sathyamashtavidham pushpam VishNO: preethikaram bhavEth II

> ย > Let us see how each of these flowers is related to Cow protection/Go- seva> ย > Ahimsa (Non-violence) :> Refuse to consume milk products and leather and ย saveย cows from abuse and death

> ย > Indriya-nigraha (control of the senses)> Restraining ourย addictions and cravings of our tongue for milkย products. This is the most important factor in the existence of factory farming and cow abuse for its milk/meat.

> ย > Sarva-bhUta- dayA (compassion to all living beings)> Being compassionate to cows/calves byย abstainingย from factory produced milk & supporting Go-shalas> ย > KshamA (tolerance/patience )

> Tolerate the urges of tongue and old habits while adhering to non-violence> ย > JnAnam (knowledge)> Realizing that the real worship of the Lord is not only external by rituals but also by showing compassion to animals along with serving His devotees

> ย > Tapas(austerity)> Living an austere like by giving up sense-gratification and pleasure foods such asย ice-cream, cheese, butter, ghee which are cruel to animals and to sustain on pure sattvic non-violent food

> ย > DhyAnam(contemplati ve meditation)> Meditate on the form of Sri Krishna, as the cowherdย boy Protecting His favourite cows and realize the importance of Go-seva> ย > Satyam (truth)

> Ability to live our lives as truthfully as possible without being hypocritical. Inculcating ahimsa not onlyย in thought and word but also in deeds and ability to putย forth teachings of Gita in oneโ€�s own life practicallyย ย

> > > --- On Fri, 11/20/09, K.V Gopalakrishna gopalakrishna. kv wrote:> > > K.V Gopalakrishna gopalakrishna. kv Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

> guruvayur@grou ps.com> Cc: "Venkata krishnan" bcvk71, "reply-to Venkata krishnan" mbaabou, "to Kamlesh Nair" veryytterium@ ..., Rajanganesh. TS, aaviskar2006@ ..., sunanda.thali@ ..., Krishna, hrvalid, blueheavenstar@ ..., "Sudharsana Lakshmi Narasimhan" sudharsananarasimha n, "Lakshmi Narayanan S" slakshmi1954@ ..., "cc "K.V Gopalakrishna gopalakrishna. kv

> Friday, November 20, 2009, 6:03 AM> > > ย > > > > Dear all,> Our Kamalesh had written----- --------- - (Refer to the bottom-most mail)> > "Becoming Vegetarian will not only save us from flash floods, global warming and a host of other evils in this life, but will also save us from the incredible tortures of Hell in the next life, for causing so much needless suffering and death to innocent animals for our cravings for flesh and animal products like factory produced milk and eggs."

> > This reminds me of an episode in Bhagavatam and Narayaneeyam when "Prachina-barhis" who was killing animals by their thousands in the name of Yagas and other rituals and was a "Karmatha" (เค•เคà¸à¹€à¸…�เคฎเค , sage Sri Narada goes and advises him to stop killing of animals as it is a great sin, and that the same animals would be waiting with their sharp horns to tear him to pieces, when he dies. Prachina-barhis withdraws to the forest to perform Tapasya and expiate his sins.

> > Coming back, it all started in our group, when I pointed out to the group, the cruelty we are perpetrating on elephants in the name of religion and God when we keep them standing in the summer sun from dawn to dusk and again during the ensuing night. ย I was watching the TV which was showing the Trichur Pooram couple of years ago, and I did watch continuously, to see whether the animals were being properly fed and given drinking water. ย To my greatest consternation, I didnt find anything of such sort. ย Out of those, two elephants were behaving a bit odd, standing aloof and raising their trunks as though they are going to trumpet.

> > The next day, I read in the papers that two elephants were turning roguish, were isolated with punishment of tying tightly with chains, etc.> > It was not my intention to injure anybody's feelings or stand against celebrating Trichur pooram, etc., and all that i wanted to convey was that we should prevail upon the organisers to show more kindness to them, put up a shade to cover the area, give them proper food and water in time. ย Unfortunately, many of our own members mistook my observations and came upon me like a ton of bricks, and I found a like-minded person in our NB Nairji who supported me wholeheartedly.

> > At least, the people attending the Pooram festival can use umbrellas to protect themselves from the peak heat of summer, but what can the poor pachiderms with their god-given black skins standing in the hot sun and absorbing all the heat do? ย If they protest by trumpeting asking for water, they are branded "Rogue" elephants! ย

> > If we travel by road from Palghat to Coimbatore by road during daytime, you casn see hundreds of poor cows, calves, bullocks, all being tied horn to horn and transported in lorries to slaughter-houses.>

> Talk about SPCA ? ย They can only tell you how to kill causing minimum pain to the animals. ย They are not against cow slaughter or non-vegetarianism.> > It is my opinion that the problem is much much bigger than we all think.ย We can see only the tip of the iceberg, as it is not possible to turn all the NVs to Vs.ย ย The day is not far off when the last quadruped is also eaten up and all the NVs will turn into cannibals and man will eat man.

> > I humbly request Shri BCVK and others to give serious thought to all these aspects before taking any crash decisions.> > Warmest regards> KVG.> > > ย ย ย ย ย

> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Jayasree Menon <euroanuster@ gmail.com> wrote:> >> > ย > >> > Hari Om!> > ย

> > ย > > Today after seeing Shri KVGji's mail i came to know that there is a society being formed against killing of animals and protection of them.ย It is simply overwhelming!ย While I have noticed that Shri Panickerji from US spreads this message alongwith his signature in all the mails, we would need to have a wider spreading of message like this by forming a society etc. to strengthen the action and create an awareness among such forces which are materialistically beyond our reach.

> > ย > > All the best KVGji.ย > > Om Namo Narayanaya.. ..> >> > 2009/11/19 K.V Gopalakrishna <gopalakrishna. kv (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> >>> >> ย > >>

> >> Dear BCVK and others,> >> Please give it a simple name, so that anybody who looks at it even for the first time will be able to understand what it is all about, rather than looking for the expansion.ย I suggest some simple name like "ANIMAL PROTECTION SOCIETY" or "MRUGA-SAMRAKSHANA- SANGHAM" or something to that effect.

> >>> >> Further, we should not forget that there is a SPCA (Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals), already in existence, and we can always appeal to them.ย If they are not doing their job, we have to either support and help them in their endeavours, or if they are not doing their job, we have to represent to the Animal Welfare Board.

> >>> >> We should also remember that as individuals, our voice will never be heard, but if we form groups at every city in sufficient numbers, we MAY be effective in our efforts.ย ย So we have to form chapters of the society at every city and gather names of interested personnel and volunteers.

> >> Regards> >> KVG.> >>> >> I feel extremely sorry that I could not be present for the meeting due to my age and related problems, but I have been following on the write-ups of members.

> >>> >> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Venkata krishnan bcvk71 > wrote:> >>>> >>> Dear Rajanganesh and All,> >>> ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย I have thought over and arrieved at a name for the Website and egroup in English.

> >>> Reconstruction and Protectionย of World and Life Foundation abridged as RAPOWAL Foundation.Think over this and improve over this.This name covers every aspect of our ideas.> >>> B.C.VENKATAKRISHNAN .

> >>> e-mail: bcvk71 > >>> ____________ _________ _________ __> >>> Kamlesh Nair <veryytterium@ gmail.com>

> >>> bcvk71 ; Rajanganesh. TS (AT) cognizant (DOT) com; aaviskar2006@ .co. in; sunanda.thali@ gmail.com; Krishna (AT) dsrc (DOT) co.in; hrvalid (AT) hotmail (DOT) com; blueheavenstar@ gmail.com

> >>> Thu, November 19, 2009 7:15:44 PM> >>> Fwd: Fw: Climate chief Lord Stern: give up meat to save the planet> >>>> >>>> >>>

> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------> >>> Veryytterium <veryytterium@ >> >>> Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:43 PM

> >>> Fw: Climate chief Lord Stern: give up meat to save the planet> >>> veryytterium@ gmail.com> >>>> >>>

> >>>> >>>> >>> --- On Mon, 10/26/09, Veryytterium <veryytterium@ > wrote:> >>>> >>> Veryytterium <veryytterium@ >

> >>> Climate chief Lord Stern: give up meat to save the planet> >>> guruvayur@grou ps.com> >>> Monday, October 26, 2009, 9:20 PM

> >>>> >>> namo narayana> >>> ย > >>> Respected all,> >>> ย > >>> As we in this group discuss about the issues of meat eating and animal abuse, almost concurrently the leaders of the world are discussing about a very closely related important topic which will impact all us.

> >>> ย > >>> This topic is "Climate Change" which was blamed for the unusual monsoon patterns this year, creating drought and massive floods at the same time. This climate change is ย attributed to a โ€�MEAT EATINGโ€� by intensive factory farming amongst other man-made factors.

> >>> ย > >>> In intensive factory farming, in order to get the most meat/eggs/milk/ leather etc. the population of the animals is artificially increased by techniques such as artificial insemination. This unbalanced population explosion causes a huge strain on the global natural resources such a water, grains, plants, electricity etc.ย The animals are very inefficient converters of the natural resources into edible protein and this causes a very high imbalance in the inputย of natural resources and the output which is "edible meat" which has a very high โ€�carbon footprintโ€�.

> >>> ย > >>> In simple terms, growing crops in a unit of land will yield more calories of food than if used for meat production, and with the added bonus of not polluting the environment. Meat production involves a huge waste of natural resources as an animal can yield only aย fraction of its body mass as edible meat. Hence meat is a very "High Carbon" food, which places enormous burdens on the natural ecosystems. While factory farming strips fresh water, plants, green grass for the animals which could be used to grow crops, the factory animals themselves emit carbon dioxide, andย methane as well as their process waste thusย further harming the environment.

> >>> ย > >>> In an interview with The Times, Lord Stern of Brentford said: โ€�Meat is a wasteful use of water and creates a lot of greenhouse gases. It puts enormous pressure on the worldโ€�s resources. A vegetarian diet is better.โ€�

> >>> ย > >>> ย http://www.timesonl ine.co.uk/ tol/news/ environment/ article6891362. ece

> >>> ย > >>> ย http://www.mnn. com/lifestyle/ health/stories/ swedes-begin- labeling- food-emissions> >>> ย > >>> Our Rishis had always emphasized on Vegetarianism which is ethically, spiritually, religiously, medically, economically, ecologically highly advanced than meat-eating.

> >>> ย > >>> Isnโ€�t it surprising that we Hindus ignore the directions given in our scriptures, but never hesitate to follow the same when preached by the so called "advanced western" civilization.

> >>> ย > >>> Becoming Vegetarian will not only save us from flash floods, global warming and a host of other evils in this life, but will also save us from the incredible tortures of Hell in the next life, for causing so much needless suffering and death to innocent animals for our cravings for flesh and animal products like factory produced milk and eggs.

> >>> ย > >>> Else we shall truly will pay a very high price for our addictions!> >>> ย > >>> Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu> >>> ย > >>> Sincerely,

> >>> ย > >>> Kamlesh> >>>> >>> ย > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> --

> >> เค•เฅ�เคทเฅ�เคฃเฅ�เคคเคฟ เคฎเค�เค—เคฒเคฎเฅ� เคจเคพเคฎ เคà¸à¹€à¸„ธเฅ�เคภเคตเคพเค�เคฟ เคชเฅ�เคà¸à¹€à¸„ตเคà¸à¹€à¸…�เคคเคคเฅ� |> >> เคà¸à¹€à¸„ธเฅ�เคฎเฅ€เคà¸à¹€à¸„ตเคจเฅ�เคคเคฟ เคคเคธเฅ�เคà¸à¹€à¸„พเคถเฅ� เคฎเคนเคพเคชเคพเคคเค•เค•เฅ�เค�เคà¸à¹€à¸„� || ย

> >> เด•เต�เดทเต�เดจเต�เดจเต�เดคเดฟ ย เดฎเด�เด—เดณเด� ย เดจเดพเดฎ ย เดà¸à¹€à¸”ธเต�เดภย เดตเดพเด�เดฟ ย เดชเต�เดà¸à¹€à¸”ตเดà¸à¹€à¸•ï¿½à¹‚€�เดคเต�เดคเดคเต� ย ย ย ย ย ย ย > >> เดà¸à¹€à¸”พเดธเต�เดฎเต€เดà¸à¹€à¸”ตเดจเต�เดคเดฟ ย เดคเดธเต�เดà¸à¹€à¸”พเดถเต� ย เดฎเดนเดพเดชเดพเดคเด•เด•เต�เด�เดà¸: ย ย .

> >>> >> >> >> > --> > Best regards> >> > Jayasree Menon> > Bangalore> > +9900149461> > my blog link: http://www.pythruka m.blogspot. com/

> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----> > A well-thought out plan, execution excellence, market timing, personal leadership are drivers of the growth ย trajectory.

> >> > > > > --> เค•เฅ�เคทเฅ�เคฃเฅ�เคคเคฟ เคฎเค�เค—เคฒเคฎเฅ� เคจเคพเคฎ เคà¸à¹€à¸„ธเฅ�เคภเคตเคพเค�เคฟ เคชเฅ�เคà¸à¹€à¸„ตเคà¸à¹€à¸…�เคคเคคเฅ� |> เคà¸à¹€à¸„ธเฅ�เคฎเฅ€เคà¸à¹€à¸„ตเคจเฅ�เคคเคฟ เคคเคธเฅ�เคà¸à¹€à¸„พเคถเฅ� เคฎเคนเคพเคชเคพเคคเค•เค•เฅ�เค�เคà¸à¹€à¸„� || ย

> เด•เต�เดทเต�เดจเต�เดจเต�เดคเดฟ ย เดฎเด�เด—เดณเด� ย เดจเดพเดฎ ย เดà¸à¹€à¸”ธเต�เดภย เดตเดพเด�เดฟ ย เดชเต�เดà¸à¹€à¸”ตเดà¸à¹€à¸•ï¿½à¹‚€�เดคเต�เดคเดคเต� ย ย ย ย ย ย ย > เดà¸à¹€à¸”พเดธเต�เดฎเต€เดà¸à¹€à¸”ตเดจเต�เดคเดฟ ย เดคเดธเต�เดà¸à¹€à¸”พเดถเต� ย เดฎเดนเดพเดชเดพเดคเด•เด•เต�เด�เดà¸: ย ย .

>

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Om Namo Narayanaya

Dear Shri Panickarji

Thank you and I totally agree with you when you said

 

"I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there."

and in that group we all know who we are whom we are supporting at-least.

 

I too echo these words of Kamlesh :-

"In my humble opinion, we need to reform ourselves first before even thinking of reforming the other community." Shall I say "others"?

We are all different, physically and mentally, with different thinking, different level of grasping power and understanding, from different parts of the world, but fortunately are under one umbrella of Guruvayoor group, thanks to Sunil for his effort and maintaining this forum. In the past we were annoyed over the Devaswom minister for his "views" about temples and its management. We prayed Lord Guruvayoorappan, and Mr. G.Sudhakaran is no more Devaswom minister. I am sure all members are aware of this. Our prayers were answered. There are many members in our group who have personally experienced that prayers are always answered and I have no hesitancy in saying fortunately I am the one.

I felt a world of relief when I read that zoo authorities decided to release all the elephants from the Zoos due to atrocities meted out to them. Was it due to the result of any particular group or individual's action? I think definitely our prayers were answered here also. Now where they will be dispatched is a problem not only for the Zoo authorities but also for the general public and all lovers of Elephants.

About cows. I certainly do not want to harm the cows that are considered "sacred" by many. Instead of mass scale of "save the cows" can we at-least protect "one" cow? Consider it as a "saha praaNi" if not as ones own mother? In olden days back at home we had 3 cows and calves,well taken care of, but due to the "changes" in the "society" in due course of "time" everything changed and to maintain a cow now is next to impossible due to space limitations. The Government had taken the lands away from the erstwhile landlords and distributed to landless thus the value of the society has completely changed.

These are again from Panickarji's mail (in USA)

"Now, there are stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with out the torture of the cow and calf."

marked appropriately. Again, some may not able to digest milk, but preparing curd at home will surely supply necessary "elements" for growth from this type of milk, which we use at home.

In Bhagavatham chapter 5 King Bharatha, whose name is associated with our Bhaaratham, was a pious and righteous Ruler, but towards the end of his life was attached to a deer and in his next birth was re-born as a deer. So too much attachment with anything in this world is not adviseable.

 

About vegetables. Can we definitely say that plants and vegetables do not have life? Most vegetables are normally amiable except "onions" that will make one cry when cut (killed). Can we also say that all vegetables are definitely safe for everyone? The "apples" that are displayed "shining" in super markets are coated with wax and I am not sure what the wax will do when we consume it? The green vegetables in cans with preservatives, "fresh" vegetables sprayed with insecticides and disinfectants are really poisonous in the long run for our health. In spite of all these hazards, life expectancy has only increased but along with that the diseases also. Each one should control "desires" and eat moderately for sustenance of life. What else can we do? Can we do anything without HIS blessings? I am sure our prayers and prayers alone is the answer that will bring

the results beneficial to all.

 

A word of caution. Some of the supportive websites are "wolves clad in sheep-skin". Helping them in any form will bring our own destruction. Its one's choice.

 

Om namo Narayanaya

Chandrasekharan "liive and let live"

"They alone live who live for others, rest are more dead than alive"

 

 

Udayabhanu Panickar <udhayabhanupanickarNBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000; Savitri Puram <savitriopuram; Guruvayur <guruvayur >Cc: Achuthan Nair <anair1101; Gopala Krishnan <gopalkrishna25; Indu <sowparnika999; K.V Gopalakrishna <gopalakrishna.kv; Kamlesh <veryytterium; marath Gopalakrishnan Nair <mgk2007.nair; Nair GG <ggnair51; Sukumaran Thampi <nsukruti; Sukumaran Thampi <TRSThampi; Bhaskaran Nair <nbnairMon, November 23, 2009 10:25:29 PM[Guruvayur] Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Nairji, Savitriji and others,

Abstain from eating the flesh of dead creatures. Living organisms are to be loved, not eaten. Vegetarians are perhaps not totally non-violent. But they are certainly a few notches above the flesh-eaters in the ladder of non-violence. Non-vegetarianism is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, nor even for the body. Saints and spiritual masters have invariably advocated vegetarianism. Non-vegetarianism distorts the basic character of man. This universe is the manifestation of but one mind. Alienation between one mind and another mind is unnatural. The mind of man is in no way different from the mind of any other creature. Love an insect, and it can be seen that it reciprocates. Salvation is the ultimate outcome of non-violence.

 

The above are not my words. This was said by Shree Vidyaadhiraaja Chattampi Swamikal. Consuming pure Vegetarian food is very good in every sense. But even vegetarian food can also be harm full if we don’t make the proper selection. Recently I read that the silver colored thin lining using to cover the sweets we get in Indian stores all over the world is animal products which lot of us doesn’t know.

 

I have seen some of you are thinking of becoming vegan also. That can also be little tricky if we don’t make the proper selection of food. For processed food, look at the labels. See if contains harmful chemical. Also find out how vegetables are grown. If you can grow them yourself, do so. Majority of people who are thinking of turning vegan is probably considering it because of the cruelty to the animals in obtaining milk and milk products. Now, there are stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with out the torture of the cow and calf. Another point considered is after the production stage is passed; the cows are killed and eaten. New let us think what happen if we don’t use Milk products, will it stop that killing. I don’t think so. What is then we can do?

 

In my opinion also, the best thing to do is to educate people at the grassroots level about the good and bad of eating habits. That can be done in many ways. And as Nairji said, that is what I do. I had lot of critics for doing this. Some even sent me very nasty emails in response to my email signatures. Some argued with me saying that Hindus are meat eaters. The funniest thing was that it was all the so-called Hindus who did this. But I just kept it on and varied between flesh, alcohol, drugs and soda. I am happy that it worked and I had few communications from Guruvayur group members also saying that my messages did encourage them to change over. Even some people who opposed me have come around and turned vegetarians now. I strongly believe that every thing we do, we say and we write do produce energy and it travels and do make changes. Even talking when none is listening can have

effects. So keep writing about it, talking about it. It will bring results.

 

As Nairji said I don’t think we can stop the killing by taking any drastic step. So the best thing is to do is turn vegetarian and encourage people to do so. If you want to be vegan, make sure the substitutes you use are made with out animal products and chemicals. And if you use milk products get the products made in a humane way and take action to educate people on the good and bad of it all.

 

The same way if elephants or any other animal is used to any purpose, Temples or in labor force, it must be with compassion and with out hurting them. For all these we can educate people. If some people feel that there should be a separate organization go ahead and do so. Also keep the work on a person to person level. Any opportunities you get to express and educate people about it do so.

 

I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there. Mean while do what ever you can. Email signatures, bumper stickers on your car, small labels on the mail you send by post office. If you use printed stationary, print some slogan on it. Use your own wording and quotes from Spiritual Masters and famous people like Gandhi and Heroes like BheeshmAchArya. These all are good tools to educate people.

 

Also there are organizations doing similar work already and if any one wants they can join them. For that last several years I am a member of PETA. PETA is in India also now. And remember, some times they can get little too aggressive. That may not do much good and may even turn counter productive.

 

Wish you all healthy eating and successful educating.

 

Thanks.

Sincerely

Udhayabhanu Panickar

aum namaHShivaaya

LET US NOT MAKE OUR STOMACH A GRAVEYARD. LET US NOT EAT FLESH.LET US BE VEGETARIANS AND STAY HEALTHY. Animals are to be loved, not eaten. Eating flesh is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, not even for the body. It distorts the basic character of human.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com> wrote:

Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com>Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group."NBhaskaran Nair" <nbnair2000 >Cc: "Achuthan Nair" <anair1101 >, "Gopala Krishnan" <gopalkrishna25@ .co. in>, "Indu" <sowparnika999@ gmail.com>, "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna. kv (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, "Kamlesh" <veryytterium@ >, "marath Gopalakrishnan Nair" <mgk2007.nair@ gmail.com>, "Nair GG" <ggnair51 (AT) (DOT) co.in>, "Sukumaran Thampi" <nsukruti (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, "Sukumaran Thampi" <TRSThampi (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>, "Udayabhanu Panickar" <udhayabhanupanickar @>, "Bhaskaran Nair" <nbnair (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:42 PM

 

Dear Nairji,

 

I perfectly agree with you and I also think that it should start at the grass root level. As you mentioned, we have to clean up ourselves before worrying about how dirty others are.

 

 

As Nairji said, in one of my earlier mails I said that Guruvayurappan or any other God or Goddess will not be happy to see an elephant being treated like this and we should introduce a look alike, life -size elephant made of wood or any other material with movable ears and trunk etc so that with nettippattom, beautiful rope ,melanki and other ornaments, it will almost look like a real elephant and we are not hurting any living being. Aren't we using "aal roopam" and different parts of our body made of silver, like eyes, ears etc to offer at His feet? Isn't a symbolic offering of our parts of the body or ourselves to Bhagavaan? In the modern day Yaagams, they are using cows made of rice dough or "arimaavu" instead of a live cow. Also for Pashuddaanam" I have seen people giving money, a dhothi etc and with sincere sankalppam of giving a cow , give it to the deserving person.

 

In the past, when I shared my loud thinking, reaction was negative and forceful.So to avoid this unpleasant feelings in our Bhakthi group, I did not want to continue the discussion. This is my humble outlook about this. I believe in Sankalppam and Shankaracharyar has said: "I made these maanasa Poojaas because power of sankalppam brings sankalppa siddhi."

 

There is no end to the cruelty towards other animals like cows, whales, seals etc. and especially cows. Also the circus animals are victims of harsh and unkind treatment, I am not sure how we can decrease the abuse except by creating awareness in people in our own family, our friends and those who come in contact with us.

 

 

Regards and prayers

 

Savitri

 

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM, NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000 > wrote:

 

 

Hi,This is for your special attn and comments if any pl.urs affly nb nair.

 

NB Nair, Scientific Officer(Retired) , Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Bombay.Phone # 09869030507.

 

The Golden Conduct-Rule applicable to almost all religions:Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto YouRef. Religion for Dummies. ISBN: 07645-5264-3, page: 34.

 

 

----- Forwarded Message ----nbn <nbnair2000 >guruvayur@grou ps.comMon, 23 November, 2009 9:55:52 AM[Guruvayur] Re: Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

 

 

 

HARI AUMIt is heartening to learn that people, individually and in groups are out tofeed hapless animals, give them shelter, etc. But I sincerely appeal toall concerned: don't waste your much valuable time and energy "to stopkilling by others". Once we believe vegetarianism is good we can always plead for it, advise othersto change over, etc., like what our Panickerji does through his appeals alwaysgiven under his signature in all mails. But who are we to stopkilling by "others"? At least, as far as we continue the practice ofHIMSA, very nakedly, in the name of "Devotion to GOD", we don't haveany genuine right to impose AHIMSA on "others" - it will be HYPOCRISYin its naked form - "My way and the Wrong Way" policy.On our own Guruvayur Group Forum many of our members had described how we treatour "Cow Matas" in the so-called modern farms. By hormonetreatments we enlarge their

stomachs and udders out of proportion, byartificial insemination we make them give birth without intervals, take awaythe young ones from their mothers, male progenies for immediate butchering andthe females for artificial feeds and hormone treatments to continue the cycleof torture. After all these life-longtorture at the end they are also butchered: instead it would have been morehumane if they are butchered right away so that they don't have to undergo allthose sufferings. Hence the cow milkthat we get these days are more a product of SIN than meat! Like cows our temple elephants are alsodoomed for their lives, once in our custody. They never get a day's normal life. So before embarking on cleaning the neighbourhood let us try to cleanour own house to the extent possible – let us use our time and energy for thatwith utmost priority.

Before accusing "OTHERS" look into a mirror, look within,and make that image worth worshipping, heed Gurudeva's Advice.

WithDue Respects for all,

ursaffly nb nair.

[Guest guest]

namo narayana

 

Dear All,

 

Some thoughts, "Do plants have a life? and are we doing a sin by eating them?"

 

From the Srimad Bhagavatham we know the story of the two trees which were felled by Lord Krishna , and the fallen trees were indeed gandharavas cursed by Narada muni to be born as two trees.

 

Hence our scriptures say that even trees have life and hence a soul. And this point is very cleverly exploited by the meat eaters to justify their meat consumption.

 

But the fact is that we humans have got this "Bhoga Sharira" through which we enjoy and suffer our karmic reactions on this earth. The earth is called mrithyu lokam because everyone who comes here must face death and the life of one jeetvatma depends upon the death of the other.

 

The "food" ordained for humans is vegetarian consisting of grains etc, this ensures that the least possible violence is conducted for human sustenance and to maintain our "bhoga sharira"

 

The food eaten (even if it vegetarian) must be obtained with minimum suffering to other living beings, and should promote well being of the body, mind and soul, and such a food is considered to be Sattvic in nature as said by Sri Krishna in Gita.

Even then such sattvic food needs to be offered to Sri Krishna before hand and then accepted as His prasadam and eaten as food for sustenance with gratitude. Such sattvic prasadam does not cause any karmic repercussions in the consumer, but actually elevates the mind, calms and purifies the person making him amenable to bhakti and dhyana and thus helping achieve the ultimate goal of moksha.

 

Sri Kirshna Himself says this in Gita, that those who eat food only for themselves eat only sin, whereas those who offer their food first in yagna (Sri Krishna) are freed from the Karmic reactions.

 

On the other hand, the person who consumes food obtained by exploitation of animals just to gratify his cravings of the tongue, pays the price in this life by numerous diseases such as diabetes, high blodd pressure etc. and in the next life, the same animals which he exploited will give the same pain to him.

Sincerely,

 

Kamlesh--- On Tue, 11/24/09, Chandra Menon <chandrasmenon2002 wrote:

Chandra Menon <chandrasmenon2002Re: [Guruvayur] Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.guruvayur Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 1:56 PM

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Narayanaya

Dear Shri Panickarji

Thank you and I totally agree with you when you said

 

"I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there."

and in that group we all know who we are whom we are supporting at-least.

 

I too echo these words of Kamlesh :-

"In my humble opinion, we need to reform ourselves first before even thinking of reforming the other community." Shall I say "others"?

We are all different, physically and mentally, with different thinking, different level of grasping power and understanding, from different parts of the world, but fortunately are under one umbrella of Guruvayoor group, thanks to Sunil for his effort and maintaining this forum. In the past we were annoyed over the Devaswom minister for his "views" about temples and its management. We prayed Lord Guruvayoorappan, and Mr. G.Sudhakaran is no more Devaswom minister. I am sure all members are aware of this. Our prayers were answered. There are many members in our group who have personally experienced that prayers are always answered and I have no hesitancy in saying fortunately I am the one.

I felt a world of relief when I read that zoo authorities decided to release all the elephants from the Zoos due to atrocities meted out to them. Was it due to the result of any particular group or individual's action? I think definitely our prayers were answered here also. Now where they will be dispatched is a problem not only for the Zoo authorities but also for the general public and all lovers of Elephants.

About cows. I certainly do not want to harm the cows that are considered "sacred" by many. Instead of mass scale of "save the cows" can we at-least protect "one" cow? Consider it as a "saha praaNi" if not as ones own mother? In olden days back at home we had 3 cows and calves,well taken care of, but due to the "changes" in the "society" in due course of "time" everything changed and to maintain a cow now is next to impossible due to space limitations. The Government had taken the lands away from the erstwhile landlords and distributed to landless thus the value of the society has completely changed.

These are again from Panickarji's mail (in USA)

"Now, there are stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with out the torture of the cow and calf."

marked appropriately. Again, some may not able to digest milk, but preparing curd at home will surely supply necessary "elements" for growth from this type of milk, which we use at home.

In Bhagavatham chapter 5 King Bharatha, whose name is associated with our Bhaaratham, was a pious and righteous Ruler, but towards the end of his life was attached to a deer and in his next birth was re-born as a deer. So too much attachment with anything in this world is not adviseable.

 

About vegetables. Can we definitely say that plants and vegetables do not have life? Most vegetables are normally amiable except "onions" that will make one cry when cut (killed). Can we also say that all vegetables are definitely safe for everyone? The "apples" that are displayed "shining" in super markets are coated with wax and I am not sure what the wax will do when we consume it? The green vegetables in cans with preservatives, "fresh" vegetables sprayed with insecticides and disinfectants are really poisonous in the long run for our health. In spite of all these hazards, life expectancy has only increased but along with that the diseases also. Each one should control "desires" and eat moderately for sustenance of life. What else can we do? Can we do anything without HIS blessings? I am sure our prayers and prayers alone is the answer that will bring

the results beneficial to all.

 

A word of caution. Some of the supportive websites are "wolves clad in sheep-skin". Helping them in any form will bring our own destruction. Its one's choice.

 

Om namo Narayanaya

Chandrasekharan "liive and let live"

"They alone live who live for others, rest are more dead than alive"

 

 

Udayabhanu Panickar <udhayabhanupanickar @>NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000 >; Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com>; Guruvayur <guruvayur@grou ps.com>Cc: Achuthan Nair <anair1101 >; Gopala Krishnan <gopalkrishna25@ .co. in>; Indu <sowparnika999@ gmail.com>; K.V Gopalakrishna <gopalakrishna. kv (AT) gmail (DOT) com>; Kamlesh <veryytterium@ >; marath Gopalakrishnan Nair <mgk2007.nair@ gmail.com>; Nair GG <ggnair51 (AT) (DOT) co.in>; Sukumaran Thampi <nsukruti (AT) gmail (DOT) com>; Sukumaran Thampi <TRSThampi (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>; Bhaskaran Nair <nbnair (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Mon, November 23, 2009 10:25:29 PM[Guruvayur] Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Nairji, Savitriji and others,

Abstain from eating the flesh of dead creatures. Living organisms are to be loved, not eaten. Vegetarians are perhaps not totally non-violent. But they are certainly a few notches above the flesh-eaters in the ladder of non-violence. Non-vegetarianism is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, nor even for the body. Saints and spiritual masters have invariably advocated vegetarianism. Non-vegetarianism distorts the basic character of man. This universe is the manifestation of but one mind. Alienation between one mind and another mind is unnatural. The mind of man is in no way different from the mind of any other creature. Love an insect, and it can be seen that it reciprocates. Salvation is the ultimate outcome of non-violence.

 

The above are not my words. This was said by Shree Vidyaadhiraaja Chattampi Swamikal. Consuming pure Vegetarian food is very good in every sense. But even vegetarian food can also be harm full if we don’t make the proper selection. Recently I read that the silver colored thin lining using to cover the sweets we get in Indian stores all over the world is animal products which lot of us doesn’t know.

 

I have seen some of you are thinking of becoming vegan also. That can also be little tricky if we don’t make the proper selection of food. For processed food, look at the labels. See if contains harmful chemical. Also find out how vegetables are grown. If you can grow them yourself, do so. Majority of people who are thinking of turning vegan is probably considering it because of the cruelty to the animals in obtaining milk and milk products. Now, there are stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with out the torture of the cow and calf. Another point considered is after the production stage is passed; the cows are killed and eaten. New let us think what happen if we don’t use Milk products, will it stop that killing. I don’t think so. What is then we can do?

 

In my opinion also, the best thing to do is to educate people at the grassroots level about the good and bad of eating habits. That can be done in many ways. And as Nairji said, that is what I do. I had lot of critics for doing this. Some even sent me very nasty emails in response to my email signatures. Some argued with me saying that Hindus are meat eaters. The funniest thing was that it was all the so-called Hindus who did this. But I just kept it on and varied between flesh, alcohol, drugs and soda. I am happy that it worked and I had few communications from Guruvayur group members also saying that my messages did encourage them to change over. Even some people who opposed me have come around and turned vegetarians now. I strongly believe that every thing we do, we say and we write do produce energy and it travels and do make changes. Even talking when none is listening can have

effects. So keep writing about it, talking about it. It will bring results.

 

As Nairji said I don’t think we can stop the killing by taking any drastic step. So the best thing is to do is turn vegetarian and encourage people to do so. If you want to be vegan, make sure the substitutes you use are made with out animal products and chemicals. And if you use milk products get the products made in a humane way and take action to educate people on the good and bad of it all.

 

The same way if elephants or any other animal is used to any purpose, Temples or in labor force, it must be with compassion and with out hurting them. For all these we can educate people. If some people feel that there should be a separate organization go ahead and do so. Also keep the work on a person to person level. Any opportunities you get to express and educate people about it do so.

 

I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there. Mean while do what ever you can. Email signatures, bumper stickers on your car, small labels on the mail you send by post office. If you use printed stationary, print some slogan on it. Use your own wording and quotes from Spiritual Masters and famous people like Gandhi and Heroes like BheeshmAchArya. These all are good tools to educate people.

 

Also there are organizations doing similar work already and if any one wants they can join them. For that last several years I am a member of PETA. PETA is in India also now. And remember, some times they can get little too aggressive. That may not do much good and may even turn counter productive.

 

Wish you all healthy eating and successful educating.

 

Thanks.

Sincerely

Udhayabhanu Panickar

aum namaHShivaaya

LET US NOT MAKE OUR STOMACH A GRAVEYARD. LET US NOT EAT FLESH.LET US BE VEGETARIANS AND STAY HEALTHY. Animals are to be loved, not eaten. Eating flesh is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, not even for the body. It distorts the basic character of human.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Mon, 11/23/09, Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com> wrote:

Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com>Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group."NBhaskaran Nair" <nbnair2000 >Cc: "Achuthan Nair" <anair1101 >, "Gopala Krishnan" <gopalkrishna25@ .co. in>, "Indu" <sowparnika999@ gmail.com>, "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna. kv (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, "Kamlesh" <veryytterium@ >, "marath Gopalakrishnan Nair" <mgk2007.nair@ gmail.com>, "Nair GG" <ggnair51 (AT) (DOT) co.in>, "Sukumaran Thampi" <nsukruti (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, "Sukumaran Thampi" <TRSThampi (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>, "Udayabhanu Panickar" <udhayabhanupanickar @>, "Bhaskaran Nair" <nbnair (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:42 PM

 

Dear Nairji,

 

I perfectly agree with you and I also think that it should start at the grass root level. As you mentioned, we have to clean up ourselves before worrying about how dirty others are.

 

 

As Nairji said, in one of my earlier mails I said that Guruvayurappan or any other God or Goddess will not be happy to see an elephant being treated like this and we should introduce a look alike, life -size elephant made of wood or any other material with movable ears and trunk etc so that with nettippattom, beautiful rope ,melanki and other ornaments, it will almost look like a real elephant and we are not hurting any living being. Aren't we using "aal roopam" and different parts of our body made of silver, like eyes, ears etc to offer at His feet? Isn't a symbolic offering of our parts of the body or ourselves to Bhagavaan? In the modern day Yaagams, they are using cows made of rice dough or "arimaavu" instead of a live cow. Also for Pashuddaanam" I have seen people giving money, a dhothi etc and with sincere sankalppam of giving a cow , give it to the deserving person.

 

In the past, when I shared my loud thinking, reaction was negative and forceful.So to avoid this unpleasant feelings in our Bhakthi group, I did not want to continue the discussion. This is my humble outlook about this. I believe in Sankalppam and Shankaracharyar has said: "I made these maanasa Poojaas because power of sankalppam brings sankalppa siddhi."

 

There is no end to the cruelty towards other animals like cows, whales, seals etc. and especially cows. Also the circus animals are victims of harsh and unkind treatment, I am not sure how we can decrease the abuse except by creating awareness in people in our own family, our friends and those who come in contact with us.

 

 

Regards and prayers

 

Savitri

 

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM, NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000 > wrote:

 

 

Hi,This is for your special attn and comments if any pl.urs affly nb nair.

 

NB Nair, Scientific Officer(Retired) , Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Bombay.Phone # 09869030507.

 

The Golden Conduct-Rule applicable to almost all religions:Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto YouRef. Religion for Dummies. ISBN: 07645-5264-3, page: 34.

 

 

----- Forwarded Message ----nbn <nbnair2000 >guruvayur@grou ps.comMon, 23 November, 2009 9:55:52 AM[Guruvayur] Re: Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

 

 

 

HARI AUMIt is heartening to learn that people, individually and in groups are out tofeed hapless animals, give them shelter, etc. But I sincerely appeal toall concerned: don't waste your much valuable time and energy "to stopkilling by others". Once we believe vegetarianism is good we can always plead for it, advise othersto change over, etc., like what our Panickerji does through his appeals alwaysgiven under his signature in all mails. But who are we to stopkilling by "others"? At least, as far as we continue the practice ofHIMSA, very nakedly, in the name of "Devotion to GOD", we don't haveany genuine right to impose AHIMSA on "others" - it will be HYPOCRISYin its naked form - "My way and the Wrong Way" policy.On our own Guruvayur Group Forum many of our members had described how we treatour "Cow Matas" in the so-called modern farms. By hormonetreatments we enlarge their

stomachs and udders out of proportion, byartificial insemination we make them give birth without intervals, take awaythe young ones from their mothers, male progenies for immediate butchering andthe females for artificial feeds and hormone treatments to continue the cycleof torture. After all these life-longtorture at the end they are also butchered: instead it would have been morehumane if they are butchered right away so that they don't have to undergo allthose sufferings. Hence the cow milkthat we get these days are more a product of SIN than meat! Like cows our temple elephants are alsodoomed for their lives, once in our custody. They never get a day's normal life. So before embarking on cleaning the neighbourhood let us try to cleanour own house to the extent possible – let us use our time and energy for thatwith utmost priority.

Before accusing "OTHERS" look into a mirror, look within,and make that image worth worshipping, heed Gurudeva's Advice.

WithDue Respects for all,

ursaffly nb nair.

[Guest guest]

Hari-om

 

The animal loving gurudevas are excited about the release of zoo elephants. But

what about the other thousands of elephants in captivity by the logging

industry, Circuss, and temples?

Again what guarantee is there that those elephants from the zoos will end up in

the forest reserve and NOT in the lumber yards ?

Remember the time when the trees that lined up the roadside for years were cut

down and sold to the timber merchants on the lame excuse that those trees

obstructed traffic and was a danger to pedestrians ?

Individuals with vested interests come up with novel ideas !

 

 

jai shree krishna !

 

Achuthan Nair

 

 

 

 

 

 

guruvayur , Chandra Menon <chandrasmenon2002 wrote:

>

> Om Namo Narayanaya

> Dear Shri Panickarji

> Thank you and I totally agree with you when you said

>  

> " I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present

group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there. "

> and in that group we all know who we are whom we are supporting at-least.

>

> I too echo these words of Kamlesh :-

> " In my humble opinion, we need to reform ourselves first before even thinking

of reforming the other community. " Shall I say " others " ?

> We are all different, physically and mentally, with different thinking,

different level of grasping power and understanding, from different parts of the

world, but fortunately are under one umbrella of Guruvayoor group, thanks to

Sunil for his effort and maintaining this forum.  In the past we were annoyed

over the Devaswom minister for his " views " about temples and its management.

We prayed Lord Guruvayoorappan, and Mr. G.Sudhakaran is no more Devaswom

minister. I am sure all members are aware of this. Our prayers were answered.

There are many members in our group who have personally experienced that

prayers are always answered and I have no hesitancy in saying fortunately I am

the one. 

> I felt a world of relief when I read that zoo authorities decided to

release all the elephants from the Zoos due to atrocities meted out to them. Was

it due to the result of any particular group or individual's action? I

think definitely our prayers were answered here also. Now where they will be

dispatched is a problem not only for the Zoo authorities but also for the

general public and all lovers of Elephants.

> About cows. I certainly do not want to harm the cows that are considered

" sacred "  by many. Instead of mass scale of " save the cows " can we at-least

protect " one " cow? Consider it as a " saha praaNi " if not as ones own mother?

In olden days back at home we had 3 cows and calves,well taken care of, but due

to the " changes " in the " society " in due course of  " time " everything changed

and to maintain a cow now is next to impossible due to space limitations. The

Government had taken the lands away from the erstwhile landlords

and distributed to landless thus the value of the society has completely

changed.

> These are again from Panickarji's mail (in USA)

>   " Now, there are stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old

way that is with out the torture of the cow and calf. "

> marked appropriately. Again, some may not able to digest milk, but preparing

curd at home will surely supply necessary " elements " for growth from this type

of milk, which we use at home.

> In Bhagavatham chapter 5 King Bharatha, whose name is associated with our

Bhaaratham, was a pious and righteous Ruler, but towards the end of his life

was attached to a deer and in his next birth was re-born as a deer. So too much

attachment with anything in this world is not adviseable.

>  

> About vegetables. Can we definitely say that plants and vegetables do not have

life? Most vegetables are normally amiable except " onions " that will make one

cry when cut (killed). Can we also say that all vegetables are

definitely safe for everyone? The " apples " that are displayed " shining " in

super markets are coated with wax and I am not sure what the wax will do when we

consume it? The green vegetables in cans with preservatives, " fresh "

vegetables sprayed with insecticides and disinfectants are really poisonous

in the long run for our health. In spite of all these hazards, life expectancy

has only increased but along with that  the diseases also. Each one should

control " desires " and eat moderately for sustenance of life. What else can we

do? Can we do anything without HIS blessings? I am sure our prayers and prayers

alone is the answer that will bring the results beneficial to all.   

>  

> A word of caution. Some of the supportive websites are " wolves clad in

sheep-skin " . Helping them in any form will bring our own destruction. Its one's

choice. 

>

> Om namo Narayanaya

> Chandrasekharan

>   " liive and let live "

> " They alone live who live for others, rest are more dead than alive "

>  

>  

>  

>  

> Dear Nairji, Savitriji and others,

> Abstain from eating the flesh of dead creatures. Living organisms are to be

loved, not eaten. Vegetarians are perhaps not totally non-violent. But they are

certainly a few notches above the flesh-eaters in the ladder of non-violence.

Non-vegetarianism is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, nor even

for the body. Saints and spiritual masters have invariably advocated

vegetarianism. Non-vegetarianism distorts the basic character of man. This

universe is the manifestation of but one mind. Alienation between one mind and

another mind is unnatural. The mind of man is in no way different from the mind

of any other creature. Love an insect, and it can be seen that it reciprocates.

Salvation is the ultimate outcome of non-violence.

>

> The above are not my words. This was said by Shree Vidyaadhiraaja Chattampi

Swamikal. Consuming pure Vegetarian food is very good in every sense. But even

vegetarian food can also be harm full if we don’t make the proper selection.

Recently I read that the silver colored thin lining using to cover the sweets we

get in Indian stores all over the world is animal products which lot of us

doesn’t know. 

>

>

> I have seen some of you are thinking of becoming vegan also. That can also be

little tricky if we don’t make the proper selection of food. For processed

food, look at the labels. See if contains harmful chemical. Also find out how

vegetables are grown. If you can grow them yourself, do so. Majority of people

who are thinking of turning vegan is probably considering it because of the

cruelty to the animals in obtaining milk and milk products. Now, there are

stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with

out the torture of the cow and calf. Another point considered is after the

production stage is passed; the cows are killed and eaten. New let us think what

happen if we don’t use Milk products, will it stop that killing. I don’t

think so. What is then we can do?

>

> In my opinion also, the best thing to do is to educate people at the

grassroots level about the good and bad of eating habits. That can be done in

many ways. And as Nairji said, that is what I do. I had lot of critics for doing

this. Some even sent me very nasty emails in response to my email signatures.

Some argued with me saying that Hindus are meat eaters. The funniest thing was

that it was all the so-called Hindus who did this. But I just kept it on and

varied between flesh, alcohol, drugs and soda. I am happy that it worked and I

had few communications from Guruvayur group members also saying that my messages

did encourage them to change over. Even some people who opposed me have come

around and turned vegetarians now. I strongly believe that every thing we do, we

say and we write do produce energy and it travels and do make changes. Even

talking when none is listening can have effects.  So keep writing about it,

talking about it. It will bring

> results. 

>

>

> As Nairji said I don’t think we can stop the killing by taking any drastic

step. So the best thing is to do is turn vegetarian and encourage people to do

so. If you want to be vegan, make sure the substitutes you use are made with out

animal products and chemicals. And if you use milk products get the products

made in a humane way and take action to educate people on the good and bad of it

all.

>

>

> The same way if elephants or any other animal is used to any purpose, Temples

or in labor force, it must be with compassion and with out hurting them. For all

these we can educate people. If some people feel that there should be a separate

organization go ahead and do so. Also keep the work on a person to person level.

Any opportunities you get to express and educate people about it do so.

>

>

> I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present

group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there. Mean while do

what ever you can. Email signatures, bumper stickers on your car, small labels

on the mail you send by post office. If you use printed stationary, print some

slogan on it. Use your own wording and quotes from Spiritual Masters and famous

people like Gandhi and Heroes like BheeshmAchArya. These all are good tools to

educate people.

>

> Also there are organizations doing similar work already and if any one wants

they can join them. For that last several years I am a member of PETA. PETA is

in India also now. And remember, some times they can get little too aggressive.

That may not do much good and may even turn counter productive.

>

> Wish you all healthy eating and successful educating.

>

> Thanks.

>

>

> Sincerely

>

> Udhayabhanu Panickar

>

> aum namaHShivaaya

> LET US NOT MAKE OUR STOMACH A GRAVEYARD. LET US NOT EAT FLESH.LET US BE

VEGETARIANS AND STAY HEALTHY. Animals are to be loved, not eaten. Eating flesh

is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, not even for the body. It

distorts the basic character of human.

>

> --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com> wrote:

>

>

> >Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com>

> >Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

> > " NBhaskaran Nair " <nbnair2000 >

> >Cc: " Achuthan Nair " <anair1101 >, " Gopala Krishnan "

<gopalkrishna25@ .co. in>, " Indu " <sowparnika999@ gmail.com>, " K.V

Gopalakrishna " <gopalakrishna. kv (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, " Kamlesh " <veryytterium@

>, " marath Gopalakrishnan Nair " <mgk2007.nair@ gmail.com>, " Nair GG "

<ggnair51 (AT) (DOT) co.in>, " Sukumaran Thampi " <nsukruti (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, " Sukumaran

Thampi " <TRSThampi (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>, " Udayabhanu Panickar " <udhayabhanupanickar

@>, " Bhaskaran Nair " <nbnair (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> >Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:42 PM

> >

> >

> >Dear Nairji,

> >

> >I perfectly agree with you and I also think that it should start at the grass

root level. As you mentioned, we have to clean up ourselves before worrying

about how dirty others are.

> >

> >As  Nairji said, in one of my earlier mails I said that Guruvayurappan or

any other God or Goddess will not be happy to see an elephant being treated like

this and we should introduce a look alike, life -size elephant made of wood or

any other material with movable ears and trunk etc so that with

nettippattom, beautiful rope ,melanki and other ornaments, it will almost look

like a real elephant and we are not hurting any living being. Aren't we using

" aal roopam " and different parts of our body made of silver, like eyes, ears etc

to offer at His feet? Isn't a symbolic offering of our parts of the body or

ourselves to Bhagavaan? In the modern day Yaagams, they are using cows made of

rice dough or " arimaavu " instead of a live cow. Also for Pashuddaanam " I have

seen people giving money, a dhothi etc and with sincere sankalppam of giving a

cow , give it to the deserving person.

> >

> >In the past, when I shared my loud thinking, reaction was negative and

forceful.So to avoid this unpleasant feelings in our Bhakthi group, I did not

want to continue the discussion. This is my humble outlook about this. I

believe in Sankalppam and Shankaracharyar has said: " I made these maanasa

Poojaas because power of sankalppam brings sankalppa siddhi. "

> >

> >There is no end to the cruelty towards other animals like cows, whales, seals

etc. and especially cows. Also the circus animals are victims of harsh and

unkind treatment, I am not sure how we can decrease the abuse except by creating

awareness in people in our own family, our friends and those who come in contact

with us.

> >

> >

> >Regards and prayers

> >

> >Savitri

> >

> >

> > 

> >On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM, NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000 >

wrote:

> >

> >Hi,

> >>This is for your special attn and comments if any pl.

> >>urs affly nb nair.

> >>

> >>

> >>NB Nair, Scientific Officer(Retired) ,

> >>Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Bombay.

> >>Phone # 09869030507.

> >>

> >>The Golden Conduct-Rule applicable to almost all religions:

> >>Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You

> >>Ref. Religion for Dummies. ISBN: 07645-5264-3, page: 34.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>----- Forwarded Message ----

> >>nbn <nbnair2000 >

> >>guruvayur@grou ps.com

> >>Mon, 23 November, 2009 9:55:52 AM

> >>[Guruvayur] Re: Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

> >>

> >> 

> >>HARI AUM

> >>It is heartening to learn that people, individually and in groups are out

tofeed hapless animals, give them shelter, etc.  But I sincerely appeal toall

concerned: don't waste your much valuable time and energy " to stopkilling by

others " . 

> >>Once we believe vegetarianism is good we can always plead for it, advise

othersto change over, etc., like what our Panickerji does through his appeals

alwaysgiven under his signature in all mails.   But who are we to stopkilling

by " others " ? At least, as far as we continue the practice ofHIMSA, very nakedly,

in the name of " Devotion to GOD " , we don't haveany genuine right to impose

AHIMSA on " others " - it will be HYPOCRISYin its naked form - " My way and the

Wrong Way " policy.

> >>On our own Guruvayur Group Forum many of our members had described how we

treatour " Cow Matas " in the so-called modern farms.  By hormonetreatments we

enlarge their stomachs and udders out of proportion, byartificial insemination

we make them give birth without intervals, take awaythe young ones from their

mothers, male progenies for immediate butchering andthe females for artificial

feeds and hormone treatments to continue the cycleof torture.  After all these

life-longtorture at the end they are also butchered: instead it would have been

morehumane if they are butchered right away so that they don't have to undergo

allthose sufferings.  Hence the cow milkthat we get these days are more a

product of SIN than meat!  Like cows our temple elephants are alsodoomed for

their lives, once in our custody. They never get a day's normal life. So

before embarking on cleaning the neighbourhood let us try to cleanour own house

to the extent possible †" let

> us use our time and energy for thatwith utmost priority.

> >>Before accusing " OTHERS " look into a mirror, look within,and make that image

worth worshipping, heed Gurudeva's Advice.    

> >>WithDue Respects for all,

> >>ursaffly nb nair.

>

> ________________________________

> Udayabhanu Panickar <udhayabhanupanickar

> NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000; Savitri Puram <savitriopuram;

Guruvayur <guruvayur >

> Cc: Achuthan Nair <anair1101; Gopala Krishnan <gopalkrishna25; Indu

<sowparnika999; K.V Gopalakrishna <gopalakrishna.kv; Kamlesh

<veryytterium; marath Gopalakrishnan Nair <mgk2007.nair; Nair GG

<ggnair51; Sukumaran Thampi <nsukruti; Sukumaran Thampi

<TRSThampi; Bhaskaran Nair <nbnair

> Mon, November 23, 2009 10:25:29 PM

> [Guruvayur] Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website

and e-group.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,Here are two more articles on the effects of Vegetarian/Non-vegetarian food.SincerelyUdhayabhanu Panickaraum namaHShivaaya LET US NOT MAKE OUR STOMACH A GRAVEYARD. LET US NOT EAT FLESH.LET US BE VEGETARIANS AND STAY HEALTHY. Animals are to be loved, not eaten. Eating flesh is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, not even for the body. It distorts the basic character of human. --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Tigers tail <anair1101 wrote:Tigers tail <anair1101[Guruvayur] Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.guruvayur Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 5:47 PM

 

 

Hari-om

 

The animal loving gurudevas are excited about the release of zoo elephants. But what about the other thousands of elephants in captivity by the logging industry, Circuss, and temples?

Again what guarantee is there that those elephants from the zoos will end up in the forest reserve and NOT in the lumber yards ?

Remember the time when the trees that lined up the roadside for years were cut down and sold to the timber merchants on the lame excuse that those trees obstructed traffic and was a danger to pedestrians ?

Individuals with vested interests come up with novel ideas !

 

jai shree krishna !

 

Achuthan Nair

 

guruvayur@grou ps.com, Chandra Menon <chandrasmenon2002@ ...> wrote:

>

> Om Namo Narayanaya

> Dear Shri Panickarji

> Thank you and I totally agree with you when you said

> Â

> "I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there."

> and in that group we all know who we are whom we are supporting at-least.

>

> I too echo these words of Kamlesh :-

> "In my humble opinion, we need to reform ourselves first before even thinking of reforming the other community." Shall I say "others"?

> We are all different, physically and mentally, with different thinking, different level of grasping power and understanding, from different parts of the world, but fortunately are under one umbrella of Guruvayoor group, thanks to Sunil for his effort and maintaining this forum.  In the past we were annoyed over the Devaswom minister for his "views" about temples and its management. We prayed Lord Guruvayoorappan, and Mr. G.Sudhakaran is no more Devaswom minister. I am sure all members are aware of this. Our prayers were answered. There are many members in our group who have personally experienced that prayers are always answered and I have no hesitancy in saying fortunately I am the one.Â

> I felt a world of relief when I read that zoo authorities decided to release all the elephants from the Zoos due to atrocities meted out to them. Was it due to the result of any particular group or individual's action? I think definitely our prayers were answered here also. Now where they will be dispatched is a problem not only for the Zoo authorities but also for the general public and all lovers of Elephants.

> About cows. I certainly do not want to harm the cows that are considered "sacred" by many. Instead of mass scale of "save the cows" can we at-least protect "one" cow? Consider it as a "saha praaNi" if not as ones own mother? In olden days back at home we had 3 cows and calves,well taken care of, but due to the "changes" in the "society" in due course of "time" everything changed and to maintain a cow now is next to impossible due to space limitations. The Government had taken the lands away from the erstwhile landlords and distributed to landless thus the value of the society has completely changed.

> These are again from Panickarji's mail (in USA)

> Â "Now, there are stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with out the torture of the cow and calf."

> marked appropriately. Again, some may not able to digest milk, but preparing curd at home will surely supply necessary "elements" for growth from this type of milk, which we use at home.

> In Bhagavatham chapter 5 King Bharatha, whose name is associated with our Bhaaratham, was a pious and righteous Ruler, but towards the end of his life was attached to a deer and in his next birth was re-born as a deer. So too much attachment with anything in this world is not adviseable.

> Â

> About vegetables. Can we definitely say that plants and vegetables do not have life? Most vegetables are normally amiable except "onions" that will make one cry when cut (killed). Can we also say that all vegetables are definitely safe for everyone? The "apples" that are displayed "shining" in super markets are coated with wax and I am not sure what the wax will do when we consume it? The green vegetables in cans with preservatives, "fresh" vegetables sprayed with insecticides and disinfectants are really poisonous in the long run for our health. In spite of all these hazards, life expectancy has only increased but along with that  the diseases also. Each one should control "desires" and eat moderately for sustenance of life. What else can we do? Can we do anything without HIS blessings? I am sure our prayers and prayers alone is the answer that will bring

the results beneficial to all.  Â

> Â

> A word of caution. Some of the supportive websites are "wolves clad in sheep-skin". Helping them in any form will bring our own destruction. Its one's choice.Â

>

> Om namo Narayanaya

> Chandrasekharan

> Â "liive and let live"

> "They alone live who live for others, rest are more dead than alive"

> Â

> Â

> Â

> Â

> Dear Nairji, Savitriji and others,

> Abstain from eating the flesh of dead creatures. Living organisms are to be loved, not eaten. Vegetarians are perhaps not totally non-violent. But they are certainly a few notches above the flesh-eaters in the ladder of non-violence. Non-vegetarianism is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, nor even for the body. Saints and spiritual masters have invariably advocated vegetarianism. Non-vegetarianism distorts the basic character of man. This universe is the manifestation of but one mind. Alienation between one mind and another mind is unnatural. The mind of man is in no way different from the mind of any other creature. Love an insect, and it can be seen that it reciprocates. Salvation is the ultimate outcome of non-violence.

>

> The above are not my words. This was said by Shree Vidyaadhiraaja Chattampi Swamikal. Consuming pure Vegetarian food is very good in every sense. But even vegetarian food can also be harm full if we don’t make the proper selection. Recently I read that the silver colored thin lining using to cover the sweets we get in Indian stores all over the world is animal products which lot of us doesn’t know.Â

>

>

> I have seen some of you are thinking of becoming vegan also. That can also be little tricky if we don’t make the proper selection of food. For processed food, look at the labels. See if contains harmful chemical. Also find out how vegetables are grown. If you can grow them yourself, do so. Majority of people who are thinking of turning vegan is probably considering it because of the cruelty to the animals in obtaining milk and milk products. Now, there are stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with out the torture of the cow and calf. Another point considered is after the production stage is passed; the cows are killed and eaten. New let us think what happen if we don’t use Milk products, will it stop that killing. I don’t think so. What is then we can do?

>

> In my opinion also, the best thing to do is to educate people at the grassroots level about the good and bad of eating habits. That can be done in many ways. And as Nairji said, that is what I do. I had lot of critics for doing this. Some even sent me very nasty emails in response to my email signatures. Some argued with me saying that Hindus are meat eaters. The funniest thing was that it was all the so-called Hindus who did this. But I just kept it on and varied between flesh, alcohol, drugs and soda. I am happy that it worked and I had few communications from Guruvayur group members also saying that my messages did encourage them to change over. Even some people who opposed me have come around and turned vegetarians now. I strongly believe that every thing we do, we say and we write do produce energy and it travels and do make changes. Even talking when none is listening can have effects. So keep writing about it, talking about it. It

will bring

> results.Â

>

>

> As Nairji said I don’t think we can stop the killing by taking any drastic step. So the best thing is to do is turn vegetarian and encourage people to do so. If you want to be vegan, make sure the substitutes you use are made with out animal products and chemicals. And if you use milk products get the products made in a humane way and take action to educate people on the good and bad of it all.

>

>

> The same way if elephants or any other animal is used to any purpose, Temples or in labor force, it must be with compassion and with out hurting them. For all these we can educate people. If some people feel that there should be a separate organization go ahead and do so. Also keep the work on a person to person level. Any opportunities you get to express and educate people about it do so.

>

>

> I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there. Mean while do what ever you can. Email signatures, bumper stickers on your car, small labels on the mail you send by post office. If you use printed stationary, print some slogan on it. Use your own wording and quotes from Spiritual Masters and famous people like Gandhi and Heroes like BheeshmAchArya. These all are good tools to educate people.

>

> Also there are organizations doing similar work already and if any one wants they can join them. For that last several years I am a member of PETA. PETA is in India also now. And remember, some times they can get little too aggressive. That may not do much good and may even turn counter productive.

>

> Wish you all healthy eating and successful educating.

>

> Thanks.

>

>

> Sincerely

>

> Udhayabhanu Panickar

>

> aum namaHShivaaya

> LET US NOT MAKE OUR STOMACH A GRAVEYARD. LET US NOT EAT FLESH.LET US BE VEGETARIANS AND STAY HEALTHY. Animals are to be loved, not eaten. Eating flesh is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, not even for the body. It distorts the basic character of human.

>

> --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com> wrote:

>

>

> >Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com>

> >Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

> >"NBhaskaran Nair" <nbnair2000>

> >Cc: "Achuthan Nair" <anair1101 >, "Gopala Krishnan" <gopalkrishna25@ .co. in>, "Indu" <sowparnika999@ gmail.com>, "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna. kv (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, "Kamlesh" <veryytterium@ >, "marath Gopalakrishnan Nair" <mgk2007.nair@ gmail.com>, "Nair GG" <ggnair51 (AT) (DOT) co.in>, "Sukumaran Thampi" <nsukruti (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, "Sukumaran Thampi" <TRSThampi (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>, "Udayabhanu Panickar" <udhayabhanupanicka r @>, "Bhaskaran Nair" <nbnair (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> >Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:42 PM

> >

> >

> >Dear Nairji,

> >

> >I perfectly agree with you and I also think that it should start at the grass root level. As you mentioned, we have to clean up ourselves before worrying about how dirty others are.

> >

> >As Nairji said, in one of my earlier mails I said that Guruvayurappan or any other God or Goddess will not be happy to see an elephant being treated like this and we should introduce a look alike, life -size elephant made of wood or any other material with movable ears and trunk etc so that with nettippattom, beautiful rope ,melanki and other ornaments, it will almost look like a real elephant and we are not hurting any living being. Aren't we using "aal roopam" and different parts of our body made of silver, like eyes, ears etc to offer at His feet? Isn't a symbolic offering of our parts of the body or ourselves to Bhagavaan? In the modern day Yaagams, they are using cows made of rice dough or "arimaavu" instead of a live cow. Also for Pashuddaanam" I have seen people giving money, a dhothi etc and with sincere sankalppam of giving a cow , give it to the deserving person.

> >

> >In the past, when I shared my loud thinking, reaction was negative and forceful.So to avoid this unpleasant feelings in our Bhakthi group, I did not want to continue the discussion. This is my humble outlook about this. I believe in Sankalppam and Shankaracharyar has said: "I made these maanasa Poojaas because power of sankalppam brings sankalppa siddhi."

> >

> >There is no end to the cruelty towards other animals like cows, whales, seals etc. and especially cows. Also the circus animals are victims of harsh and unkind treatment, I am not sure how we can decrease the abuse except by creating awareness in people in our own family, our friends and those who come in contact with us.

> >

> >

> >Regards and prayers

> >

> >Savitri

> >

> >

> >Â

> >On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM, NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000> wrote:

> >

> >Hi,

> >>This is for your special attn and comments if any pl.

> >>urs affly nb nair.

> >>

> >>

> >>NB Nair, Scientific Officer(Retired) ,

> >>Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Bombay.

> >>Phone # 09869030507.

> >>

> >>The Golden Conduct-Rule applicable to almost all religions:

> >>Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You

> >>Ref. Religion for Dummies. ISBN: 07645-5264-3, page: 34.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>----- Forwarded Message ----

> >>nbn <nbnair2000>

> >>guruvayur@grou ps.com

> >>Mon, 23 November, 2009 9:55:52 AM

> >>[Guruvayur] Re: Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

> >>

> >>Â

> >>HARI AUM

> >>It is heartening to learn that people, individually and in groups are out tofeed hapless animals, give them shelter, etc. But I sincerely appeal toall concerned: don't waste your much valuable time and energy "to stopkilling by others".Â

> >>Once we believe vegetarianism is good we can always plead for it, advise othersto change over, etc., like what our Panickerji does through his appeals alwaysgiven under his signature in all mails.  But who are we to stopkilling by "others"? At least, as far as we continue the practice ofHIMSA, very nakedly, in the name of "Devotion to GOD", we don't haveany genuine right to impose AHIMSA on "others" - it will be HYPOCRISYin its naked form - "My way and the Wrong Way" policy.

> >>On our own Guruvayur Group Forum many of our members had described how we treatour "Cow Matas" in the so-called modern farms. By hormonetreatments we enlarge their stomachs and udders out of proportion, byartificial insemination we make them give birth without intervals, take awaythe young ones from their mothers, male progenies for immediate butchering andthe females for artificial feeds and hormone treatments to continue the cycleof torture. After all these life-longtorture at the end they are also butchered: instead it would have been morehumane if they are butchered right away so that they don't have to undergo allthose sufferings. Hence the cow milkthat we get these days are more a product of SIN than meat! Like cows our temple elephants are alsodoomed for their lives, once in our custody. They never get a day's normal life. So before embarking on cleaning the neighbourhood let us try to

cleanour own house to the extent possible â€" let

> us use our time and energy for thatwith utmost priority.

> >>Before accusing "OTHERS" look into a mirror, look within,and make that image worth worshipping, heed Gurudeva's Advice.   Â

> >>WithDue Respects for all,

> >>ursaffly nb nair.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Udayabhanu Panickar <udhayabhanupanicka r

> NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000@ ...>; Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ ...>; Guruvayur <guruvayur@grou ps.com>

> Cc: Achuthan Nair <anair1101@. ..>; Gopala Krishnan <gopalkrishna25@ ...>; Indu <sowparnika999@ ...>; K.V Gopalakrishna <gopalakrishna. kv; Kamlesh <veryytterium@ ...>; marath Gopalakrishnan Nair <mgk2007.nair@ ...>; Nair GG <ggnair51@.. .>; Sukumaran Thampi <nsukruti@.. .>; Sukumaran Thampi <TRSThampi@. ..>; Bhaskaran Nair <nbnair

> Mon, November 23, 2009 10:25:29 PM

> [Guruvayur] Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

>

 

 

 

 

2 of 2 File(s)

 

 

 

 

 

Vegetarian India tells West to stop eating beef.doc

 

 

 

 

 

Vegetarian Livestock impacts on the environment.doc

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,We are discussing how to prevent cruelty to animals and see what our own people next door doing. That also most of the people attending and doing are people from our own land.SincerelyUdhayabhanu Panickaraum namaHShivaaya LET US NOT MAKE OUR STOMACH A GRAVEYARD. LET US NOT EAT FLESH.LET US BE VEGETARIANS AND STAY HEALTHY. Animals are to be loved, not eaten. Eating flesh is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, not even for the body. It distorts the basic character of human. --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Tigers tail <anair1101 wrote:Tigers tail <anair1101[Guruvayur] Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.guruvayur Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 5:47 PM

 

 

Hari-om

 

The animal loving gurudevas are excited about the release of zoo elephants. But what about the other thousands of elephants in captivity by the logging industry, Circuss, and temples?

Again what guarantee is there that those elephants from the zoos will end up in the forest reserve and NOT in the lumber yards ?

Remember the time when the trees that lined up the roadside for years were cut down and sold to the timber merchants on the lame excuse that those trees obstructed traffic and was a danger to pedestrians ?

Individuals with vested interests come up with novel ideas !

 

jai shree krishna !

 

Achuthan Nair

 

guruvayur@grou ps.com, Chandra Menon <chandrasmenon2002@ ...> wrote:

>

> Om Namo Narayanaya

> Dear Shri Panickarji

> Thank you and I totally agree with you when you said

> Â

> "I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there."

> and in that group we all know who we are whom we are supporting at-least.

>

> I too echo these words of Kamlesh :-

> "In my humble opinion, we need to reform ourselves first before even thinking of reforming the other community." Shall I say "others"?

> We are all different, physically and mentally, with different thinking, different level of grasping power and understanding, from different parts of the world, but fortunately are under one umbrella of Guruvayoor group, thanks to Sunil for his effort and maintaining this forum.  In the past we were annoyed over the Devaswom minister for his "views" about temples and its management. We prayed Lord Guruvayoorappan, and Mr. G.Sudhakaran is no more Devaswom minister. I am sure all members are aware of this. Our prayers were answered. There are many members in our group who have personally experienced that prayers are always answered and I have no hesitancy in saying fortunately I am the one.Â

> I felt a world of relief when I read that zoo authorities decided to release all the elephants from the Zoos due to atrocities meted out to them. Was it due to the result of any particular group or individual's action? I think definitely our prayers were answered here also. Now where they will be dispatched is a problem not only for the Zoo authorities but also for the general public and all lovers of Elephants.

> About cows. I certainly do not want to harm the cows that are considered "sacred" by many. Instead of mass scale of "save the cows" can we at-least protect "one" cow? Consider it as a "saha praaNi" if not as ones own mother? In olden days back at home we had 3 cows and calves,well taken care of, but due to the "changes" in the "society" in due course of "time" everything changed and to maintain a cow now is next to impossible due to space limitations. The Government had taken the lands away from the erstwhile landlords and distributed to landless thus the value of the society has completely changed.

> These are again from Panickarji's mail (in USA)

> Â "Now, there are stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with out the torture of the cow and calf."

> marked appropriately. Again, some may not able to digest milk, but preparing curd at home will surely supply necessary "elements" for growth from this type of milk, which we use at home.

> In Bhagavatham chapter 5 King Bharatha, whose name is associated with our Bhaaratham, was a pious and righteous Ruler, but towards the end of his life was attached to a deer and in his next birth was re-born as a deer. So too much attachment with anything in this world is not adviseable.

> Â

> About vegetables. Can we definitely say that plants and vegetables do not have life? Most vegetables are normally amiable except "onions" that will make one cry when cut (killed). Can we also say that all vegetables are definitely safe for everyone? The "apples" that are displayed "shining" in super markets are coated with wax and I am not sure what the wax will do when we consume it? The green vegetables in cans with preservatives, "fresh" vegetables sprayed with insecticides and disinfectants are really poisonous in the long run for our health. In spite of all these hazards, life expectancy has only increased but along with that  the diseases also. Each one should control "desires" and eat moderately for sustenance of life. What else can we do? Can we do anything without HIS blessings? I am sure our prayers and prayers alone is the answer that will bring

the results beneficial to all.  Â

> Â

> A word of caution. Some of the supportive websites are "wolves clad in sheep-skin". Helping them in any form will bring our own destruction. Its one's choice.Â

>

> Om namo Narayanaya

> Chandrasekharan

> Â "liive and let live"

> "They alone live who live for others, rest are more dead than alive"

> Â

> Â

> Â

> Â

> Dear Nairji, Savitriji and others,

> Abstain from eating the flesh of dead creatures. Living organisms are to be loved, not eaten. Vegetarians are perhaps not totally non-violent. But they are certainly a few notches above the flesh-eaters in the ladder of non-violence. Non-vegetarianism is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, nor even for the body. Saints and spiritual masters have invariably advocated vegetarianism. Non-vegetarianism distorts the basic character of man. This universe is the manifestation of but one mind. Alienation between one mind and another mind is unnatural. The mind of man is in no way different from the mind of any other creature. Love an insect, and it can be seen that it reciprocates. Salvation is the ultimate outcome of non-violence.

>

> The above are not my words. This was said by Shree Vidyaadhiraaja Chattampi Swamikal. Consuming pure Vegetarian food is very good in every sense. But even vegetarian food can also be harm full if we don’t make the proper selection. Recently I read that the silver colored thin lining using to cover the sweets we get in Indian stores all over the world is animal products which lot of us doesn’t know.Â

>

>

> I have seen some of you are thinking of becoming vegan also. That can also be little tricky if we don’t make the proper selection of food. For processed food, look at the labels. See if contains harmful chemical. Also find out how vegetables are grown. If you can grow them yourself, do so. Majority of people who are thinking of turning vegan is probably considering it because of the cruelty to the animals in obtaining milk and milk products. Now, there are stores where you can get milk and milk products made the old way that is with out the torture of the cow and calf. Another point considered is after the production stage is passed; the cows are killed and eaten. New let us think what happen if we don’t use Milk products, will it stop that killing. I don’t think so. What is then we can do?

>

> In my opinion also, the best thing to do is to educate people at the grassroots level about the good and bad of eating habits. That can be done in many ways. And as Nairji said, that is what I do. I had lot of critics for doing this. Some even sent me very nasty emails in response to my email signatures. Some argued with me saying that Hindus are meat eaters. The funniest thing was that it was all the so-called Hindus who did this. But I just kept it on and varied between flesh, alcohol, drugs and soda. I am happy that it worked and I had few communications from Guruvayur group members also saying that my messages did encourage them to change over. Even some people who opposed me have come around and turned vegetarians now. I strongly believe that every thing we do, we say and we write do produce energy and it travels and do make changes. Even talking when none is listening can have effects. So keep writing about it, talking about it. It

will bring

> results.Â

>

>

> As Nairji said I don’t think we can stop the killing by taking any drastic step. So the best thing is to do is turn vegetarian and encourage people to do so. If you want to be vegan, make sure the substitutes you use are made with out animal products and chemicals. And if you use milk products get the products made in a humane way and take action to educate people on the good and bad of it all.

>

>

> The same way if elephants or any other animal is used to any purpose, Temples or in labor force, it must be with compassion and with out hurting them. For all these we can educate people. If some people feel that there should be a separate organization go ahead and do so. Also keep the work on a person to person level. Any opportunities you get to express and educate people about it do so.

>

>

> I am of the opinion that we should keep the discussion out of the present group. Form another group and discuss it there and go from there. Mean while do what ever you can. Email signatures, bumper stickers on your car, small labels on the mail you send by post office. If you use printed stationary, print some slogan on it. Use your own wording and quotes from Spiritual Masters and famous people like Gandhi and Heroes like BheeshmAchArya. These all are good tools to educate people.

>

> Also there are organizations doing similar work already and if any one wants they can join them. For that last several years I am a member of PETA. PETA is in India also now. And remember, some times they can get little too aggressive. That may not do much good and may even turn counter productive.

>

> Wish you all healthy eating and successful educating.

>

> Thanks.

>

>

> Sincerely

>

> Udhayabhanu Panickar

>

> aum namaHShivaaya

> LET US NOT MAKE OUR STOMACH A GRAVEYARD. LET US NOT EAT FLESH.LET US BE VEGETARIANS AND STAY HEALTHY. Animals are to be loved, not eaten. Eating flesh is good neither for the mind nor for the intellect, not even for the body. It distorts the basic character of human.

>

> --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com> wrote:

>

>

> >Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ gmail.com>

> >Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

> >"NBhaskaran Nair" <nbnair2000>

> >Cc: "Achuthan Nair" <anair1101 >, "Gopala Krishnan" <gopalkrishna25@ .co. in>, "Indu" <sowparnika999@ gmail.com>, "K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna. kv (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, "Kamlesh" <veryytterium@ >, "marath Gopalakrishnan Nair" <mgk2007.nair@ gmail.com>, "Nair GG" <ggnair51 (AT) (DOT) co.in>, "Sukumaran Thampi" <nsukruti (AT) gmail (DOT) com>, "Sukumaran Thampi" <TRSThampi (AT) hotmail (DOT) com>, "Udayabhanu Panickar" <udhayabhanupanicka r @>, "Bhaskaran Nair" <nbnair (AT) gmail (DOT) com>

> >Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:42 PM

> >

> >

> >Dear Nairji,

> >

> >I perfectly agree with you and I also think that it should start at the grass root level. As you mentioned, we have to clean up ourselves before worrying about how dirty others are.

> >

> >As Nairji said, in one of my earlier mails I said that Guruvayurappan or any other God or Goddess will not be happy to see an elephant being treated like this and we should introduce a look alike, life -size elephant made of wood or any other material with movable ears and trunk etc so that with nettippattom, beautiful rope ,melanki and other ornaments, it will almost look like a real elephant and we are not hurting any living being. Aren't we using "aal roopam" and different parts of our body made of silver, like eyes, ears etc to offer at His feet? Isn't a symbolic offering of our parts of the body or ourselves to Bhagavaan? In the modern day Yaagams, they are using cows made of rice dough or "arimaavu" instead of a live cow. Also for Pashuddaanam" I have seen people giving money, a dhothi etc and with sincere sankalppam of giving a cow , give it to the deserving person.

> >

> >In the past, when I shared my loud thinking, reaction was negative and forceful.So to avoid this unpleasant feelings in our Bhakthi group, I did not want to continue the discussion. This is my humble outlook about this. I believe in Sankalppam and Shankaracharyar has said: "I made these maanasa Poojaas because power of sankalppam brings sankalppa siddhi."

> >

> >There is no end to the cruelty towards other animals like cows, whales, seals etc. and especially cows. Also the circus animals are victims of harsh and unkind treatment, I am not sure how we can decrease the abuse except by creating awareness in people in our own family, our friends and those who come in contact with us.

> >

> >

> >Regards and prayers

> >

> >Savitri

> >

> >

> >Â

> >On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:13 AM, NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000> wrote:

> >

> >Hi,

> >>This is for your special attn and comments if any pl.

> >>urs affly nb nair.

> >>

> >>

> >>NB Nair, Scientific Officer(Retired) ,

> >>Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, Bombay.

> >>Phone # 09869030507.

> >>

> >>The Golden Conduct-Rule applicable to almost all religions:

> >>Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You

> >>Ref. Religion for Dummies. ISBN: 07645-5264-3, page: 34.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>----- Forwarded Message ----

> >>nbn <nbnair2000>

> >>guruvayur@grou ps.com

> >>Mon, 23 November, 2009 9:55:52 AM

> >>[Guruvayur] Re: Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

> >>

> >>Â

> >>HARI AUM

> >>It is heartening to learn that people, individually and in groups are out tofeed hapless animals, give them shelter, etc. But I sincerely appeal toall concerned: don't waste your much valuable time and energy "to stopkilling by others".Â

> >>Once we believe vegetarianism is good we can always plead for it, advise othersto change over, etc., like what our Panickerji does through his appeals alwaysgiven under his signature in all mails.  But who are we to stopkilling by "others"? At least, as far as we continue the practice ofHIMSA, very nakedly, in the name of "Devotion to GOD", we don't haveany genuine right to impose AHIMSA on "others" - it will be HYPOCRISYin its naked form - "My way and the Wrong Way" policy.

> >>On our own Guruvayur Group Forum many of our members had described how we treatour "Cow Matas" in the so-called modern farms. By hormonetreatments we enlarge their stomachs and udders out of proportion, byartificial insemination we make them give birth without intervals, take awaythe young ones from their mothers, male progenies for immediate butchering andthe females for artificial feeds and hormone treatments to continue the cycleof torture. After all these life-longtorture at the end they are also butchered: instead it would have been morehumane if they are butchered right away so that they don't have to undergo allthose sufferings. Hence the cow milkthat we get these days are more a product of SIN than meat! Like cows our temple elephants are alsodoomed for their lives, once in our custody. They never get a day's normal life. So before embarking on cleaning the neighbourhood let us try to

cleanour own house to the extent possible â€" let

> us use our time and energy for thatwith utmost priority.

> >>Before accusing "OTHERS" look into a mirror, look within,and make that image worth worshipping, heed Gurudeva's Advice.   Â

> >>WithDue Respects for all,

> >>ursaffly nb nair.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Udayabhanu Panickar <udhayabhanupanicka r

> NBhaskaran Nair <nbnair2000@ ...>; Savitri Puram <savitriopuram@ ...>; Guruvayur <guruvayur@grou ps.com>

> Cc: Achuthan Nair <anair1101@. ..>; Gopala Krishnan <gopalkrishna25@ ...>; Indu <sowparnika999@ ...>; K.V Gopalakrishna <gopalakrishna. kv; Kamlesh <veryytterium@ ...>; marath Gopalakrishnan Nair <mgk2007.nair@ ...>; Nair GG <ggnair51@.. .>; Sukumaran Thampi <nsukruti@.. .>; Sukumaran Thampi <TRSThampi@. ..>; Bhaskaran Nair <nbnair

> Mon, November 23, 2009 10:25:29 PM

> [Guruvayur] Re: For your attn. pl Proposal of Name for our website and e-group.

>

 

 

 

 

1 of 1 File(s)

 

 

 

 

 

Sacrifice of 200,000 Animals Proceeds Despite Pleas, Prayers.doc