There is no need to fear death

[Guest guest]

I am writing this with ref to a mail received a few days ago about fear of

death. It seems to have been deleted from my computer by mistake.

 

Death is inevitable for every one who is born and so there is no point in

fearing death. Death should be looked upon as God calling us back to be with him

for rest for some time till the time comes for us to be born again and

experience joys and sorrows in this world.

 

Death is the departure of the subtle body (i.e., the jivatma) from the physical

body. The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection of

Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical body

becomes insentient. The subtle body takes up another physical body. This process

goes on until the dawn of Self-knowledge. Then, on the fall of the physical body

when the praarabdhakarma is exhausted, the subtle body also ceases to exist and

videhamukti is attained. He/she is not born again.

 

The Gita says that, just as we cast away worn-out clothes and get new ones, we

leave the worn-out physical body and take another, new one.

 

The following example in the upanishad illustrates how the jivatma passes from

one physical body to another. Just as a leach, which wants to go from one leaf

to another, stretches the front part of its body and takes hold of the new leaf

and then draws the hind portion of the body away from the old leaf and onto the

new leaf, so also, the jivatma takes hold of the new body and only thereafter

leaves the old body. This is similar to what happens when going from the waking

to the dream state. In the dream state the person identifies himself with his

dream body and completely dissociates himself from his waking state body. The

presiding deities of all the organs also take their places in the new body. The

nature of the new body, whether it is that of a human being or of a god, or of

an animal or other creature, depends on the past karma, knowledge and

impressions (vaasanas) of the particular individual. The Mundaka. Up.

says--â€He who longs for objects of

desire, thinking highly of them, is born along with those desires in a

situation in which he will be able to realize those desiresâ€(3.2.2). Desire is

therefore the cause of repeated births and deaths. Total elimination of desire

is the means to liberation.

 

Regarding how a new body is formed, the example of a goldsmith taking an old

ornament and converting it into a new one is given in Br.up.4.4.4.

 

Karma is the cause of repeated births.

The jiva is born according to his karma and knowledge as a human being, animal,

bird, tree, etc.

 

Proof of existence of past births

Sri Sankara says that from the fact that as soon as a creature is born, it

hankers after breast-feeding and experiences fear, etc, it is clear that it has

memory of similar experiences in past lives. He also refers to the case of

prodigies who show exceptional ability in some field such as music, etc., at a

very young age. This is because they must have attained a very high degree of

proficiency in that field in a past birth.

The upanishads say that whatever knowledge we acquire in one birth is not lost,

but it will be with us in the next and subsequent births. So we should go on

acquiring knowledge throughout life and even in old age.

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

Reincarnation is a main topic of research these days. I recently read in a book about Kalpana Chawla's reincarnation. A few months after her death, a girl was born to one Mr. Rajkumar in UP. They named the baby Upasana. When she was 4 years old (in 2007), she revealed that she is the reincarnation of Kalpana Chawla. Initially, everyone ignored it as rubbish. However, it caught media attention. NASA initially didnt have much whereabouts of Columbia space shuttle. Upasana very vividly explained as to how it was hit by a big piece of snow while in its orbit. She even recalled the last minutes they spent in it. Through Indian media, it seems American media and NASA came to know about it. This report came in Times of India in July 2007. So many other cases are also mentioned in the book.

The book that I mentioned is a very interesting book. It is written by Sri.M.K.Ramachandran who went to Kailasam and did Kailasa parikramanam by foot and has toured extensively in Himalayas. There are three books of his - all about his tours. Those are books to be read by all. Himalayas and the secrets there are simply astonishing. The three books are Kailas Manasasarassu, Aadikailasayatra and Tapobhoomi Utharkhand.

In the last book, he has written about his meeting with saints living in the inner most part of Himalayas. Dont have words to express about all that.

Jai Sree Krishna

 

 

 

Nilakantan sastri <snsastriGuruvayur <guruvayur >Sat, January 30, 2010 6:55:02 PM[Guruvayur] There is no need to fear death

I am writing this with ref to a mail received a few days ago about fear of death. It seems to have been deleted from my computer by mistake.Death is inevitable for every one who is born and so there is no point in fearing death. Death should be looked upon as God calling us back to be with him for rest for some time till the time comes for us to be born again and experience joys and sorrows in this world.Death is the departure of the subtle body (i.e., the jivatma) from the physical body. The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection of Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical body becomes insentient. The subtle body takes up another physical body. This process goes on until the dawn of Self-knowledge. Then, on the fall of the physical body when the praarabdhakarma is exhausted, the subtle body also ceases to exist and videhamukti is attained. He/she is not born again.The

Gita says that, just as we cast away worn-out clothes and get new ones, we leave the worn-out physical body and take another, new one. The following example in the upanishad illustrates how the jivatma passes from one physical body to another. Just as a leach, which wants to go from one leaf to another, stretches the front part of its body and takes hold of the new leaf and then draws the hind portion of the body away from the old leaf and onto the new leaf, so also, the jivatma takes hold of the new body and only thereafter leaves the old body. This is similar to what happens when going from the waking to the dream state. In the dream state the person identifies himself with his dream body and completely dissociates himself from his waking state body. The presiding deities of all the organs also take their places in the new body. The nature of the new body, whether it is that of a human being or of a god, or of an animal or other creature,

depends on the past karma, knowledge and impressions (vaasanas) of the particular individual. The Mundaka. Up. says--â€He who longs for objects ofdesire, thinking highly of them, is born along with those desires in a situation in which he will be able to realize those desiresâ€(3.2.2). Desire is therefore the cause of repeated births and deaths. Total elimination of desire is the means to liberation. Regarding how a new body is formed, the example of a goldsmith taking an old ornament and converting it into a new one is given in Br.up.4.4.4. Karma is the cause of repeated births. The jiva is born according to his karma and knowledge as a human being, animal, bird, tree, etc.Proof of existence of past births Sri Sankara says that from the fact that as soon as a creature is born, it hankers after breast-feeding and experiences fear, etc, it is clear that it has memory of similar experiences in past lives. He also

refers to the case of prodigies who show exceptional ability in some field such as music, etc., at a very young age. This is because they must have attained a very high degree of proficiency in that field in a past birth. The upanishads say that whatever knowledge we acquire in one birth is not lost, but it will be with us in the next and subsequent births. So we should go on acquiring knowledge throughout life and even in old age. Best wishes,S.N.Sastri

[Guest guest]

Namaskaaram Sastriji!

 

 

" The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection of

Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical body

becomes insentient. "

 

Could you please elaborate on this? Who is reflecting the consciousness and

where is the consciousness? Does the subtle body include aathman? When death

occurs only the subtle body leaves and aathman remains? I am sorry may be i am

trying to know something that cannot be known through reason. But i always get

stuck at these points.

 

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna!

 

Ajith

 

guruvayur , Nilakantan sastri <snsastri wrote:

>

> I am writing this with ref to a mail received a few days ago about fear of

death. It seems to have been deleted from my computer by mistake.

>

> Death is inevitable for every one who is born and so there is no point in

fearing death. Death should be looked upon as God calling us back to be with him

for rest for some time till the time comes for us to be born again and

experience joys and sorrows in this world.

>

> Death is the departure of the subtle body (i.e., the jivatma) from the

physical body. The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection

of Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical

body becomes insentient. The subtle body takes up another physical body. This

process goes on until the dawn of Self-knowledge. Then, on the fall of the

physical body when the praarabdhakarma is exhausted, the subtle body also ceases

to exist and videhamukti is attained. He/she is not born again.

>

> The Gita says that, just as we cast away worn-out clothes and get new ones, we

leave the worn-out physical body and take another, new one.

>

> The following example in the upanishad illustrates how the jivatma passes from

one physical body to another. Just as a leach, which wants to go from one leaf

to another, stretches the front part of its body and takes hold of the new leaf

and then draws the hind portion of the body away from the old leaf and onto the

new leaf, so also, the jivatma takes hold of the new body and only thereafter

leaves the old body. This is similar to what happens when going from the waking

to the dream state. In the dream state the person identifies himself with his

dream body and completely dissociates himself from his waking state body. The

presiding deities of all the organs also take their places in the new body. The

nature of the new body, whether it is that of a human being or of a god, or of

an animal or other creature, depends on the past karma, knowledge and

impressions (vaasanas) of the particular individual. The Mundaka. Up.

says--â€He who longs for objects of

> desire, thinking highly of them, is born along with those desires in a

situation in which he will be able to realize those desiresâ€(3.2.2). Desire is

therefore the cause of repeated births and deaths. Total elimination of desire

is the means to liberation.

>

> Regarding how a new body is formed, the example of a goldsmith taking an old

ornament and converting it into a new one is given in Br.up.4.4.4.

>

> Karma is the cause of repeated births.

> The jiva is born according to his karma and knowledge as a human being,

animal, bird, tree, etc.

>

> Proof of existence of past births

> Sri Sankara says that from the fact that as soon as a creature is born, it

hankers after breast-feeding and experiences fear, etc, it is clear that it has

memory of similar experiences in past lives. He also refers to the case of

prodigies who show exceptional ability in some field such as music, etc., at a

very young age. This is because they must have attained a very high degree of

proficiency in that field in a past birth.

> The upanishads say that whatever knowledge we acquire in one birth is not

lost, but it will be with us in the next and subsequent births. So we should go

on acquiring knowledge throughout life and even in old age.

> Best wishes,

> S.N.Sastri

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ajithji,

To understand these you have to

start from the fundamental principles of advaita Vedanta.

The subtle body is made up of the

mind and the subtle counterparts of the organs of sense and action

(jnanendriyas and karmendriyas). On death the physical body becomes insentient

and it is cremated. But the subtle body does not die. It goes out and it is

born again in another physical body. Atma is pure consciousness. The subtle

body and the physical body are themselves insentient, but they become conscious

because of the presence of the Atma. This is what is called reflection of

consciousness.

To understand all this you will

have to take up a systematic study by attending some classes held by the

Chinmaya Mission, etc.

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri

--- On Tue, 2/2/10, vengellur <vengellur wrote:vengellur <vengellur[Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 3:21 AM

 

 

Namaskaaram Sastriji!

 

"The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection of Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical body becomes insentient."

 

Could you please elaborate on this? Who is reflecting the consciousness and where is the consciousness? Does the subtle body include aathman? When death occurs only the subtle body leaves and aathman remains? I am sorry may be i am trying to know something that cannot be known through reason. But i always get stuck at these points.

 

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna!

 

Ajith

 

guruvayur@grou ps.com, Nilakantan sastri <snsastri@.. .> wrote:

>

> I am writing this with ref to a mail received a few days ago about fear of death. It seems to have been deleted from my computer by mistake.

>

> Death is inevitable for every one who is born and so there is no point in fearing death. Death should be looked upon as God calling us back to be with him for rest for some time till the time comes for us to be born again and experience joys and sorrows in this world.

>

> Death is the departure of the subtle body (i.e., the jivatma) from the physical body. The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection of Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical body becomes insentient. The subtle body takes up another physical body. This process goes on until the dawn of Self-knowledge. Then, on the fall of the physical body when the praarabdhakarma is exhausted, the subtle body also ceases to exist and videhamukti is attained. He/she is not born again.

>

> The Gita says that, just as we cast away worn-out clothes and get new ones, we leave the worn-out physical body and take another, new one.

>

> The following example in the upanishad illustrates how the jivatma passes from one physical body to another. Just as a leach, which wants to go from one leaf to another, stretches the front part of its body and takes hold of the new leaf and then draws the hind portion of the body away from the old leaf and onto the new leaf, so also, the jivatma takes hold of the new body and only thereafter leaves the old body. This is similar to what happens when going from the waking to the dream state. In the dream state the person identifies himself with his dream body and completely dissociates himself from his waking state body. The presiding deities of all the organs also take their places in the new body. The nature of the new body, whether it is that of a human being or of a god, or of an animal or other creature, depends on the past karma, knowledge and impressions (vaasanas) of the particular individual. The Mundaka. Up. says--â€He who longs for

objects of

> desire, thinking highly of them, is born along with those desires in a situation in which he will be able to realize those desiresâ€(3.2.2). Desire is therefore the cause of repeated births and deaths. Total elimination of desire is the means to liberation.

>

> Regarding how a new body is formed, the example of a goldsmith taking an old ornament and converting it into a new one is given in Br.up.4.4.4.

>

> Karma is the cause of repeated births.

> The jiva is born according to his karma and knowledge as a human being, animal, bird, tree, etc.

>

> Proof of existence of past births

> Sri Sankara says that from the fact that as soon as a creature is born, it hankers after breast-feeding and experiences fear, etc, it is clear that it has memory of similar experiences in past lives. He also refers to the case of prodigies who show exceptional ability in some field such as music, etc., at a very young age. This is because they must have attained a very high degree of proficiency in that field in a past birth.

> The upanishads say that whatever knowledge we acquire in one birth is not lost, but it will be with us in the next and subsequent births. So we should go on acquiring knowledge throughout life and even in old age.

> Best wishes,

> S.N.Sastri

>

[Guest guest]

Om Namo NarayanayaDear Devotees,Here is the Order of Merging - A detailed description on death - by Swami Krishnananda, based on The Chhandogya Upanishad. Shared with our group.

1. Purusam, saumya, utopatapinam jnatayah paryupasate,

janasi mam,

janasi mam iti; tasya yavan na van manasi sampadyate,

manah prane,

pranah tejasi, tejah parasyam devatayam tavaj-janati.

 

When a person is very sick and is about to depart from

this world, people sit around him. His relatives gather around him and ask him,

“Do you recognise us?†“Do you know who I am sitting here?†If the senses are

active, naturally, he would recognise them; but if the senses have been

withdrawn into the mind, then he can only think but cannot speak. He can only

have memory of his relations, but he cannot see them gathered or seated in

front of him. What happens at the time of death is that there is a gradual withdrawal

of the functions of the various organs in the system. The physical senses are activated

by certain forces which impel us towards perception. When the purpose of bodily

existence in this world is finished, then there is no work for the senses. When

one is alive, the senses act in a particular manner on account of prarabdha-karma

that they are expected to execute in this span of life. When that is over,

this body is of no use for the purpose of experience here. Then the senses

understand that they cannot do anything through this body. They want to drop

this instrument. So they withdraw themselves. Then the physical body cannot any

more become a location of these functions of the senses. What are these senses?

They are the energies propelled by the mind. It is the mind itself projecting

its tentacles through the orifices of the body called the sense organs and the

motor organs. So, when the functions of an individual in a particular body is

over by the exhaustion of prarabdha-karma, the senses are withdrawn into

the mind. Then the dying person can think but cannot see. He cannot speak. No

organ will function. He is practically dead. He will be lying on his bed

without life, as it were, yet life is there.

 

As long as the mind is not withdrawn into a higher reality

in him, he can think. Otherwise, even thinking is not possible. At the last

moment, when a person is just about to pass away, thinking stops. Not only

speech and senses stop their activities, even the mind stops its functions and

he cannot think. If you speak to that person, he will not reply. He will not

react. He will not give any indication of having heard your sound. That is the

condition where not only the senses are withdrawn into the mind, but the mind also

is withdrawn into the pranas. There is only breathing, neither thinking

nor sensing. Then people say the person

is still alive. He breathes. Some bring cotton and keep it near the nostrils to

see if he is alive. If the cotton moves it means he is alive, otherwise he is

gone. So the first stage of withdrawal is the absorption of the senses into the

mind. The second stage of withdrawal is the absorption of the mind into the prana

wherein the breathing process continues, life exists, but there is no

thinking and there is no sensation. Then what happens? The breath also gets

withdrawn into the fire principle which is what we call the heat in the system.

As long as there is heat in the system, you say there is the element of life.

If the heat also has gone, the whole body becomes cold and limbs are chill.

Then we lose all hope; it is finished. Prana is also withdrawn into the

fire principle. Vang-manasi sampadyate, manah prane, pranah tejasi—so,

when senses are gone, mind is there; when the mind has gone, the prana is

there; when the prana has gone, mere heat or fire is there. Fire or heat

is the last thing which is in a person on the verge of leaving this world and

entering the other world. When the heat also is withdrawn into the Supreme

Being—tejah parasyam devatayam—then there is no consciousness and there

is no bodily life.

------------------Regards,Suresh C. KurupOM Namo Narayanaya

 

 

--- On Wed, 3/2/10, Nilakantan sastri <snsastri wrote:Nilakantan sastri <snsastriRe: [Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur Date: Wednesday, 3 February, 2010, 10:06 AM

 

 

 

Dear Ajithji,

To understand these you have to

start from the fundamental principles of advaita Vedanta.

The subtle body is made up of the

mind and the subtle counterparts of the organs of sense and action

(jnanendriyas and karmendriyas) . On death the physical body becomes insentient

and it is cremated. But the subtle body does not die. It goes out and it is

born again in another physical body. Atma is pure consciousness. The subtle

body and the physical body are themselves insentient, but they become conscious

because of the presence of the Atma. This is what is called reflection of

consciousness.

To understand all this you will

have to take up a systematic study by attending some classes held by the

Chinmaya Mission, etc.

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri

--- On Tue, 2/2/10, vengellur <vengellur > wrote:vengellur <vengellur >[Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur@grou ps.comTuesday, February 2, 2010, 3:21 AM

 

 

Namaskaaram Sastriji!

 

"The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection of Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical body becomes insentient."

 

Could you please elaborate on this? Who is reflecting the consciousness and where is the consciousness? Does the subtle body include aathman? When death occurs only the subtle body leaves and aathman remains? I am sorry may be i am trying to know something that cannot be known through reason. But i always get stuck at these points.

 

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna!

 

Ajith

 

guruvayur@grou ps.com, Nilakantan sastri <snsastri@.. .> wrote:

>

> I am writing this with ref to a mail received a few days ago about fear of death. It seems to have been deleted from my computer by mistake.

>

> Death is inevitable for every one who is born and so there is no point in fearing death. Death should be looked upon as God calling us back to be with him for rest for some time till the time comes for us to be born again and experience joys and sorrows in this world.

>

> Death is the departure of the subtle body (i.e., the jivatma) from the physical body. The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection of Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical body becomes insentient. The subtle body takes up another physical body. This process goes on until the dawn of Self-knowledge. Then, on the fall of the physical body when the praarabdhakarma is exhausted, the subtle body also ceases to exist and videhamukti is attained. He/she is not born again.

>

> The Gita says that, just as we cast away worn-out clothes and get new ones, we leave the worn-out physical body and take another, new one.

>

> The following example in the upanishad illustrates how the jivatma passes from one physical body to another. Just as a leach, which wants to go from one leaf to another, stretches the front part of its body and takes hold of the new leaf and then draws the hind portion of the body away from the old leaf and onto the new leaf, so also, the jivatma takes hold of the new body and only thereafter leaves the old body. This is similar to what happens when going from the waking to the dream state. In the dream state the person identifies himself with his dream body and completely dissociates himself from his waking state body. The presiding deities of all the organs also take their places in the new body. The nature of the new body, whether it is that of a human being or of a god, or of an animal or other creature, depends on the past karma, knowledge and impressions (vaasanas) of the particular individual. The Mundaka. Up. says--â€He who longs for

objects of

> desire, thinking highly of them, is born along with those desires in a situation in which he will be able to realize those desiresâ€(3.2.2). Desire is therefore the cause of repeated births and deaths. Total elimination of desire is the means to liberation.

>

> Regarding how a new body is formed, the example of a goldsmith taking an old ornament and converting it into a new one is given in Br.up.4.4.4.

>

> Karma is the cause of repeated births.

> The jiva is born according to his karma and knowledge as a human being, animal, bird, tree, etc.

>

> Proof of existence of past births

> Sri Sankara says that from the fact that as soon as a creature is born, it hankers after breast-feeding and experiences fear, etc, it is clear that it has memory of similar experiences in past lives. He also refers to the case of prodigies who show exceptional ability in some field such as music, etc., at a very young age. This is because they must have attained a very high degree of proficiency in that field in a past birth.

> The upanishads say that whatever knowledge we acquire in one birth is not lost, but it will be with us in the next and subsequent births. So we should go on acquiring knowledge throughout life and even in old age.

> Best wishes,

> S.N.Sastri

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your Mail works best with the New Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!.

[Guest guest]

sir,

is it that people who die very young their praprabdha karma is less?

after the person dies, has he any choice as to where he wants to take his next birth?

when we do shrarda for our parents, how do they come home to our house, when their soul has already occupied another body and are not aware of their previous birth or identity?

on shradha day i always am in search of my departed mother, i do not get any indication that she has come home and had food?

there are many such questions which keep on arising in my mind these days.

js--- On Thu, 4/2/10, SURESH C KURUP <sureshckurup wrote:

SURESH C KURUP <sureshckurupRe: [Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur Date: Thursday, 4 February, 2010, 4:44

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Narayanaya

 

Dear Devotees,

 

Here is the Order of Merging - A detailed description on death

- by Swami Krishnananda, based on The Chhandogya Upanishad.

Shared with our group.

 

 

1. Purusam, saumya, utopatapinam jnatayah paryupasate, janasi mam,

janasi mam iti; tasya yavan na van manasi sampadyate, manah prane,

pranah tejasi, tejah parasyam devatayam tavaj-janati.

 

When a person is very sick and is about to depart from this world, people sit around him. His relatives gather around him and ask him, “Do you recognise us?†“Do you know who I am sitting here?†If the senses are active, naturally, he would recognise them; but if the senses have been withdrawn into the mind, then he can only think but cannot speak. He can only have memory of his relations, but he cannot see them gathered or seated in front of him. What happens at the time of death is that there is a gradual withdrawal of the functions of the various organs in the system. The physical senses are activated by certain forces which impel us towards perception. When the purpose of bodily existence in this world is finished, then there is no work for the senses. When one is alive, the senses act in a particular manner on account of prarabdha-karma that they are expected to execute in this span of

life. When that is over, this body is of no use for the purpose of experience here. Then the senses understand that they cannot do anything through this body. They want to drop this instrument. So they withdraw themselves. Then the physical body cannot any more become a location of these functions of the senses. What are these senses? They are the energies propelled by the mind. It is the mind itself projecting its tentacles through the orifices of the body called the sense organs and the motor organs. So, when the functions of an individual in a particular body is over by the exhaustion of prarabdha-karma, the senses are withdrawn into the mind. Then the dying person can think but cannot see. He cannot speak. No organ will function.. He is practically dead. He will be lying on his bed without life, as it were, yet life is there.

 

As long as the mind is not withdrawn into a higher reality in him, he can think. Otherwise, even thinking is not possible. At the last moment, when a person is just about to pass away, thinking stops. Not only speech and senses stop their activities, even the mind stops its functions and he cannot think. If you speak to that person, he will not reply. He will not react. He will not give any indication of having heard your sound. That is the condition where not only the senses are withdrawn into the mind, but the mind also is withdrawn into the pranas. There is only breathing, neither thinking nor sensing. Then people say the person is still alive. He breathes. Some bring cotton and keep it near the nostrils to see if he is alive. If the cotton moves it means he is alive, otherwise he is gone. So the first stage of withdrawal is the absorption of the senses into the mind. The second

stage of withdrawal is the absorption of the mind into the prana wherein the breathing process continues, life exists, but there is no thinking and there is no sensation. Then what happens? The breath also gets withdrawn into the fire principle which is what we call the heat in the system. As long as there is heat in the system, you say there is the element of life.. If the heat also has gone, the whole body becomes cold and limbs are chill. Then we lose all hope; it is finished. Prana is also withdrawn into the fire principle. Vang-manasi sampadyate, manah prane, pranah tejasi—so, when senses are gone, mind is there; when the mind has gone, the prana is there; when the prana has gone, mere heat or fire is there. Fire or heat is the last thing which is in a person on the verge of leaving this world and entering the other world. When the heat also is withdrawn into the Supreme Being—tejah parasyam

devatayam—then there is no consciousness and there is no bodily life. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---

 

Regards,

 

Suresh C. Kurup

 

OM Namo Narayanaya

 

--- On Wed, 3/2/10, Nilakantan sastri <snsastri > wrote:

Nilakantan sastri <snsastri >Re: [Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur@grou ps.comWednesday, 3 February, 2010, 10:06 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ajithji,

To understand these you have to start from the fundamental principles of advaita Vedanta.

The subtle body is made up of the mind and the subtle counterparts of the organs of sense and action (jnanendriyas and karmendriyas) . On death the physical body becomes insentient and it is cremated. But the subtle body does not die. It goes out and it is born again in another physical body. Atma is pure consciousness. The subtle body and the physical body are themselves insentient, but they become conscious because of the presence of the Atma. This is what is called reflection of consciousness.

To understand all this you will have to take up a systematic study by attending some classes held by the Chinmaya Mission, etc. Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri --- On Tue, 2/2/10, vengellur <vengellur > wrote:

vengellur <vengellur >[Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur@grou ps.comTuesday, February 2, 2010, 3:21 AM

Namaskaaram Sastriji!"The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection of Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical body becomes insentient."Could you please elaborate on this? Who is reflecting the consciousness and where is the consciousness? Does the subtle body include aathman? When death occurs only the subtle body leaves and aathman remains? I am sorry may be i am trying to know something that cannot be known through reason. But i always get stuck at these points.Thank you very much. Hare Krishna!Ajithguruvayur@grou ps.com, Nilakantan sastri <snsastri@.. .> wrote:>> I am writing this with ref to a mail received a few days ago about fear of death. It seems to have been deleted from my computer by mistake.> > Death is inevitable for every one who is born and so there is no point in fearing

death. Death should be looked upon as God calling us back to be with him for rest for some time till the time comes for us to be born again and experience joys and sorrows in this world.> > Death is the departure of the subtle body (i.e., the jivatma) from the physical body. The physical body gets sentiency only because of the reflection of Consciousness in the subtle body. When the subtle body departs the physical body becomes insentient. The subtle body takes up another physical body. This process goes on until the dawn of Self-knowledge. Then, on the fall of the physical body when the praarabdhakarma is exhausted, the subtle body also ceases to exist and videhamukti is attained. He/she is not born again.> > The Gita says that, just as we cast away worn-out clothes and get new ones, we leave the worn-out physical body and take another, new one. > > The following example in the upanishad illustrates how the

jivatma passes from one physical body to another. Just as a leach, which wants to go from one leaf to another, stretches the front part of its body and takes hold of the new leaf and then draws the hind portion of the body away from the old leaf and onto the new leaf, so also, the jivatma takes hold of the new body and only thereafter leaves the old body. This is similar to what happens when going from the waking to the dream state. In the dream state the person identifies himself with his dream body and completely dissociates himself from his waking state body. The presiding deities of all the organs also take their places in the new body. The nature of the new body, whether it is that of a human being or of a god, or of an animal or other creature, depends on the past karma, knowledge and impressions (vaasanas) of the particular individual. The Mundaka. Up. says--â€He who longs for objects of> desire, thinking highly of them, is born along

with those desires in a situation in which he will be able to realize those desiresâ€(3.2.2). Desire is therefore the cause of repeated births and deaths. Total elimination of desire is the means to liberation. > > Regarding how a new body is formed, the example of a goldsmith taking an old ornament and converting it into a new one is given in Br.up.4..4.4. > > Karma is the cause of repeated births. > The jiva is born according to his karma and knowledge as a human being, animal, bird, tree, etc.> > Proof of existence of past births > Sri Sankara says that from the fact that as soon as a creature is born, it hankers after breast-feeding and experiences fear, etc, it is clear that it has memory of similar experiences in past lives. He also refers to the case of prodigies who show exceptional ability in some field such as music, etc., at a very young age. This is because they must have attained a

very high degree of proficiency in that field in a past birth. > The upanishads say that whatever knowledge we acquire in one birth is not lost, but it will be with us in the next and subsequent births. So we should go on acquiring knowledge throughout life and even in old age. > Best wishes,> S.N.Sastri>

 

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Om Namo Narayanaya

 

Dear Jayanthi ji,

 

I am not a scholar.

Then also, I would try to write on your doubts on the basis of what I

read from books and heard from my superiors. If there is anything wrong, I request our elders to correct it.

 

1.

I heard that, there are two kinds of “karma phalamâ€

(results of action). One is prarabdha

and the other is sanchitha. Prarabhda

karma phalam is acquired during all the previous births, and sanchitha is the

result of action in this birth, which is again added to prarabdha karma phalam

at the end of this birth. It is

irrelevant to the kind of deeds we undertake i.e., good or bad. We are helpless to alter prarabdha, but we

can stay away from bondage of karma by nishkaama sanchitha karma

(action without desire or expectation).

When there is no bondage of sanchitha karma, what remain is only the

prarabdha. And when the remaining

prarabdha is also exhausted, there is no birth and death.

 

2. Bhagavan says to Arjuna in His Geetha that, “Whatever

you think of at the last minutes, you become the very thing in the next

birth. If you think about me, you

will certainly come me only†That means

the merging with HIM. But, this is not

that easy. HE also says, By continuous

efforts throughout the life only can prepare us to think about HIM at our death

bed. On this basis, there is the option,

but with continuous efforts. There are stories on this in the Bhagavatham.

 

3.

No one knows what one experiences after death. In our hindu dharma we use to perform

shradham every year for our forefathers.

In my understanding, it is a ritual to remember them atleast once in a

year. This way we keep our remembrance

and attachment intact. In this

connection, there is a real story.

 

In

malappuram district, there lived a Brahmin.

He was very particular for taking bath in the river in brahma muhoortham. In his house, he kept a dog. This dog was always with him for 24

hours. One day, the Brahmin was about to

have the dip in the river. Immediately

the dog barked and blocked his way to the river. The Brahmin could not understand as to why it

is barking in so vigor. He did not mind

it and moved to the river side.

Suddenly, the dog bit on his cloth and again blocked his journey to the

river. The Brahmin again could not

understand and walked on. Before he moved

into the river, the dog jumped in it and what happened was that, a huge

crocodile made the dog his breakfast and it was killed. And something very interesting is that, the

Brahmin started conducting SHRADHAM every year on this day the dog was

killed. The Brahmin died later on, but,

now also the family members use to do it every year. This way they remember the dog and its

sacrifice.

 

 

4.

In our every ritual, there is a logical reasoning,

which has to be thought of. For having

foods, there is a minimum need for a physical body. According to Chandogya Upanishad, foods have

3 parts. Gross, Midling &

Subtle. When consumed, grosser parts

become excreta, middling parts become enery / formation of meat, and subtle

parts influence the mind. A departed

soul does not have any of these.

 

Like

I said above, it is a ritual, which keeps our attachment alive. We identify our dears with the name and forms,

which have nothing to do with soul. We

have no control over the soul, we burn the form, and what remains is the name

and the memories.

 

Regards,

 

Suresh C. Kurup

 

Om Namo

Narayanaya

--- On Thu, 4/2/10, Jayanthi Srikrishna <jayanthi.srikrishna wrote:Jayanthi Srikrishna <jayanthi.srikrishnaRe: [Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur Date: Thursday, 4 February, 2010, 7:15 AM

 

 

sir,

is it that people who die very young their praprabdha karma is less?

after the person dies, has he any choice as to where he wants to take his next birth?

when we do shrarda for our parents, how do they come home to our house, when their soul has already occupied another body and are not aware of their previous birth or identity?

on shradha day i always am in search of my departed mother, i do not get any indication that she has come home and had food?

there are many such questions which keep on arising in my mind these days.

js--- On Thu, 4/2/10, SURESH C KURUP <sureshckurup@ > wrote:

SURESH C KURUP <sureshckurup@ >Re: [Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, 4 February, 2010, 4:44

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Narayanaya

 

Dear Devotees,

 

Here is the Order of Merging - A detailed description on death

- by Swami Krishnananda, based on The Chhandogya Upanishad.

Shared with our group.

 

 

1. Purusam, saumya, utopatapinam jnatayah paryupasate, janasi mam,

janasi mam iti; tasya yavan na van manasi sampadyate, manah prane,

pranah tejasi, tejah parasyam devatayam tavaj-janati.

 

When a person is very sick and is about to depart from this world, people sit around him. His relatives gather around him and ask him, “Do you recognise us?†“Do you know who I am sitting here?†If the senses are active, naturally, he would recognise them; but if the senses have been withdrawn into the mind, then he can only think but cannot speak. He can only have memory of his relations, but he cannot see them gathered or seated in front of him. What happens at the time of death is that there is a gradual withdrawal of the functions of the various organs in the system. The physical senses are activated by certain forces which impel us towards perception. When the purpose of bodily existence in this world is finished, then there is no work for the senses. When one is alive, the senses act in a particular manner on account of prarabdha-karma that they are expected to execute in this

span of

life. When that is over, this body is of no use for the purpose of experience here. Then the senses understand that they cannot do anything through this body. They want to drop this instrument. So they withdraw themselves. Then the physical body cannot any more become a location of these functions of the senses. What are these senses? They are the energies propelled by the mind. It is the mind itself projecting its tentacles through the orifices of the body called the sense organs and the motor organs. So, when the functions of an individual in a particular body is over by the exhaustion of prarabdha-karma, the senses are withdrawn into the mind. Then the dying person can think but cannot see. He cannot speak. No organ will function.. He is practically dead. He will be lying on his bed without life, as it were, yet life is there.

 

As long as the mind is not withdrawn into a higher reality in him, he can think. Otherwise, even thinking is not possible. At the last moment, when a person is just about to pass away, thinking stops. Not only speech and senses stop their activities, even the mind stops its functions and he cannot think. If you speak to that person, he will not reply. He will not react. He will not give any indication of having heard your sound. That is the condition where not only the senses are withdrawn into the mind, but the mind also is withdrawn into the pranas. There is only breathing, neither thinking nor sensing. Then people say the person is still alive. He breathes. Some bring cotton and keep it near the nostrils to see if he is alive. If the cotton moves it means he is alive, otherwise he is gone. So the first stage of withdrawal is the absorption of the senses into the mind. The

second

stage of withdrawal is the absorption of the mind into the prana wherein the breathing process continues, life exists, but there is no thinking and there is no sensation. Then what happens? The breath also gets withdrawn into the fire principle which is what we call the heat in the system. As long as there is heat in the system, you say there is the element of life.. If the heat also has gone, the whole body becomes cold and limbs are chill. Then we lose all hope; it is finished. Prana is also withdrawn into the fire principle. Vang-manasi sampadyate, manah prane, pranah tejasi—so, when senses are gone, mind is there; when the mind has gone, the prana is there; when the prana has gone, mere heat or fire is there. Fire or heat is the last thing which is in a person on the verge of leaving this world and entering the other world. When the heat also is withdrawn into the Supreme Being—tejah parasyam

devatayam—then there is no consciousness and there is no bodily life. ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---

 

Regards,

 

Suresh C. Kurup

 

OM Namo Narayanaya

 

-

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[Guest guest]

Om Namo Narayanaya

I am also like our Suresh Kurup, not a scholar, but two negatives make a positive and hence 2cents (sense) worth of my understanding about this subject. My Gurus and Gurudevs kindly pardon my outbursts.

To me all those mentioned by Suresh Kurup is worth reading again and again to understand and explained like a Scholar. About point 3 I may add, that if our forefathers by their "merit" are in "Heaven" or "Suvar Lokam", for them our human year (365days) are equal to one day and by remembering them every year on "shraadham" day, is equal to remembering them every day. One need not offer a big feast for them at all. Bhagawan has said offer "phalampushpam" or "thoyam" (water) is sufficient for his blessings. We do not know how many forefathers we had. My suggestion (this is purely mine) to all to offer a "handful" (with both hands) water daily after "bath" when our body is "clean" with a clean mind for all those left on that day irrespective of "relative" or not will add "credits" in HIS account against us.

About the DOG incident at Malappuram, if we reverse the letters, it becomes GOD. And dogs are the best "friend" for human beings. Now a days even "Police" are using them to help. That clearly shows that GOD is present in every form and creations of HIM. Our Human life is "precious" after many many lives and let us make use of this "Janmam" to better the lives those left us earlier and also keep the road clean for those who follow us

Om Namo Narayanaya

Chandrasekharan

 

 

"live and let live"

"They alone live who live for others, rest are more dead than alive"

 

 

 

 

SURESH C KURUP <sureshckurupguruvayur Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 12:38:04 AMRe: [Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear death

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Narayanaya

 

Dear Jayanthi ji,

 

I am not a scholar. Then also, I would try to write on your doubts on the basis of what I read from books and heard from my superiors. If there is anything wrong, I request our elders to correct it.

 

1. I heard that, there are two kinds of “karma phalam†(results of action). One is prarabdha and the other is sanchitha. Prarabhda karma phalam is acquired during all the previous births, and sanchitha is the result of action in this birth, which is again added to prarabdha karma phalam at the end of this birth. It is irrelevant to the kind of deeds we undertake i.e., good or bad. We are helpless to alter prarabdha, but we can stay away from bondage of karma by nishkaama sanchitha karma (action without desire or expectation) . When there is no bondage of

sanchitha karma, what remain is only the prarabdha. And when the remaining prarabdha is also exhausted, there is no birth and death.

 

2. Bhagavan says to Arjuna in His Geetha that, “Whatever you think of at the last minutes, you become the very thing in the next birth. If you think about me, you will certainly come me only†That means the merging with HIM. But, this is not that easy. HE also says, By continuous efforts throughout the life only can prepare us to think about HIM at our death bed. On this basis, there is the option, but with continuous efforts. There are stories on this in the Bhagavatham.

 

3. No one knows what one experiences after death. In our hindu dharma we use to perform shradham every year for our forefathers. In my understanding, it is a ritual to remember them atleast once in a year. This way we keep our remembrance and attachment intact. In this connection, there is a real story.

 

In malappuram district, there lived a Brahmin. He was very particular for taking bath in the river in brahma muhoortham. In his house, he kept a dog. This dog was always with him for 24 hours. One day, the Brahmin was about to have the dip in the river. Immediately the dog barked and blocked his way to the river. The Brahmin could not understand as to why it is barking in so vigor. He did not mind it and moved to the river side. Suddenly, the dog bit on his cloth and again blocked his journey to the river. The Brahmin again could not understand and walked on.

Before he moved into the river, the dog jumped in it and what happened was that, a huge crocodile made the dog his breakfast and it was killed. And something very interesting is that, the Brahmin started conducting SHRADHAM every year on this day the dog was killed. The Brahmin died later on, but, now also the family members use to do it every year. This way they remember the dog and its sacrifice.

 

 

4. In our every ritual, there is a logical reasoning, which has to be thought of. For having foods, there is a minimum need for a physical body. According to Chandogya Upanishad, foods have 3 parts. Gross, Midling & Subtle. When consumed, grosser parts become excreta, middling parts become enery / formation of meat, and subtle parts influence the mind. A departed soul does not have any of these.

 

Like I said above, it is a ritual, which keeps our attachment alive. We identify our dears with the name and forms, which have nothing to do with soul. We have no control over the soul, we burn the form, and what remains is the name and the memories.

 

Regards,

 

Suresh C. Kurup

 

Om Namo Narayanaya--- On Thu, 4/2/10, Jayanthi Srikrishna <jayanthi.srikrishna @.co. uk> wrote:

Jayanthi Srikrishna <jayanthi.srikrishna @.co. uk>Re: [Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, 4 February, 2010, 7:15 AM

 

 

 

 

 

sir,

is it that people who die very young their praprabdha karma is less?

after the person dies, has he any choice as to where he wants to take his next birth?

when we do shrarda for our parents, how do they come home to our house, when their soul has already occupied another body and are not aware of their previous birth or identity?

on shradha day i always am in search of my departed mother, i do not get any indication that she has come home and had food?

there are many such questions which keep on arising in my mind these days.

js--- On Thu, 4/2/10, SURESH C KURUP <sureshckurup@ > wrote:

SURESH C KURUP <sureshckurup@ >Re: [Guruvayur] Re: There is no need to fear deathguruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, 4 February, 2010, 4:44

 

 

 

 

 

Om Namo Narayanaya

 

Dear Devotees,

 

Here is the Order of Merging - A detailed description on death

- by Swami Krishnananda, based on The Chhandogya Upanishad.

Shared with our group.

 

 

1. Purusam, saumya, utopatapinam jnatayah paryupasate, janasi mam,

janasi mam iti; tasya yavan na van manasi sampadyate, manah prane,

pranah tejasi, tejah parasyam devatayam tavaj-janati.

When a person is very sick and is about to depart from this world, people sit around him. His relatives gather around him and ask him, “Do you recognise us?†“Do you know who I am sitting here?†If the senses are active, naturally, he would recognise them; but if the senses have been withdrawn into the mind, then he can only think but cannot speak. He can only have memory of his relations, but he cannot see them gathered or seated in front of him. What happens at the time of death is that there is a gradual withdrawal of the functions of the various organs in the system. The physical senses are activated by certain forces which impel us towards perception. When the purpose of bodily existence in this world is finished, then there is no work for the senses. When one is alive, the senses act in a particular manner on account of prarabdha-karma that they are expected to execute in this span of

life. When that is over, this body is of no use for the purpose of experience here. Then the senses understand that they cannot do anything through this body. They want to drop this instrument. So they withdraw themselves. Then the physical body cannot any more become a location of these functions of the senses. What are these senses? They are the energies propelled by the mind. It is the mind itself projecting its tentacles through the orifices of the body called the sense organs and the motor organs. So, when the functions of an individual in a particular body is over by the exhaustion of prarabdha-karma, the senses are withdrawn into the mind. Then the dying person can think but cannot see. He cannot speak. No organ will function.. He is practically dead. He will be lying on his bed without life, as it were, yet life is there.

As long as the mind is not withdrawn into a higher reality in him, he can think. Otherwise, even thinking is not possible. At the last moment, when a person is just about to pass away, thinking stops. Not only speech and senses stop their activities, even the mind stops its functions and he cannot think. If you speak to that person, he will not reply. He will not react. He will not give any indication of having heard your sound. That is the condition where not only the senses are withdrawn into the mind, but the mind also is withdrawn into the pranas. There is only breathing, neither thinking nor sensing. Then people say the person is still alive. He breathes. Some bring cotton and keep it near the nostrils to see if he is alive. If the cotton moves it means he is alive, otherwise he is gone. So the first stage of withdrawal is the absorption of the senses into the mind. The second

stage of withdrawal is the absorption of the mind into the prana wherein the breathing process continues, life exists, but there is no thinking and there is no sensation. Then what happens? The breath also gets withdrawn into the fire principle which is what we call the heat in the system. As long as there is heat in the system, you say there is the element of life.. If the heat also has gone, the whole body becomes cold and limbs are chill. Then we lose all hope; it is finished. Prana is also withdrawn into the fire principle. Vang-manasi sampadyate, manah prane, pranah tejasi—so, when senses are gone, mind is there; when the mind has gone, the prana is there; when the prana has gone, mere heat or fire is there. Fire or heat is the last thing which is in a person on the verge of leaving this world and entering the other world. When the heat also is withdrawn into the Supreme Being—tejah parasyam

devatayam—then there is no consciousness and there is no bodily life.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---

 

Regards,

 

Suresh C. Kurup

 

OM Namo Narayanaya

 

-

 

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