Problem of Mayavadam . [1 Attachment]

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I have sent 5 posts on the vedartha sangraha of Ramanuja which I have already posted to other groups. Hence forth the posts will be sent as and when I post them.--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Saroja Ramanujam <sarojram18 wrote:Saroja Ramanujam <sarojram18Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Problem of Mayavadam . [1 Attachment]guruvayur Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 6:04 AM

 

 

I am attaching the write up on Philosophy of Ramanuja according to which the re are three reals, Isvara, jeeva and jagath. Mayavada is to be interpreted that teh world is maya in the sense that it is not what you take it to be. Brahman is one only but manifests as different forms which are all real and not illusion.In visishtadvaita of Ramanuja Naryana is synonymous with Brahman of th eupanishads. Ramanuja clarifies the concept of visishtabrahman in his vedartha sangraha as well as in Sribhashya.My writings on Sribhashya can be accessed from the ebook in the website sundarasimham. org.book no.59and60. I am writing on vedartha sangraha now which I will post

in the group where you can find the criticism of advaita conceot and also elucidation of the view that Narayana who possesses infinitely auspicous qualities is none else than the Brhaman of the

upanishads.--- On Sat, 2/20/10, Veryytterium <veryytterium@ > wrote:Veryytterium <veryytterium@ >Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Problem of Mayavadam .guruvayur@grou ps.comSaturday, February 20, 2010, 3:43 AM

 

 

namo narayana

 

Respected Sir,

 

Many times over I have been told by several people whom I know, that God does not have a form. It is only humans that have created a form for Him, then given Him a name and then His attributes, so that we humans can meditate on Him easier than on an abstract formless god.

 

Hence all the pastimes, avatharas etc of God are just man-made or unreal. Earlier I never used to challenge such claims, but now I feel that, how can the form of the Lord be illusionary?

 

How do these people claim to get "true" spiritual benefits and upliftment by worshipping a "unreal" form, by singing His "unreal" names and remembering "unreal" pastimes?

 

If all the forms, names and pastimes of the Lord are unreal, then how can these people claim that whatever spiritual upliftment they have achieved is real? Can something false give us something real?

 

Now as a devotee of Lord Narayana, I find it extremely saddening when people say that parabrahman is only abstract and formless and the highest state of perfection is to eventually merge with Him.

As a aspiring bhakta, I cannot accept that most masjestic form of Lord Narayana in Sri Vaikuntham, or the most loving and affectionate form of Lord Sri Unnikrishna are just unreal or man-made!

 

How can the forms of the most merciful and loving Lord Vishnu in His beautiful forms like Sri Narasimhaswamy appearing just for a single 5 year Pralhad be false? How can the form of Lord Krishna who saved countless of His devotees by giving the most beneficient Bhagavad Gita be man-made??

 

Maybe bhaktas of the Lord, should challenge such claims by people who insist that Parabrahman is nirguna and neerakar.

 

Sincerely,

Kamlesh

 

narayana narayana <kausthubha >Re: [Guruvayur] Re: Problem of Mayavadam .guruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, February 18, 2010, 1:58 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Devotees,

 

When Mayavaadis claim that everything you see in this world is false or mithya that also includes them. That is, according to their own statements the physical bodies of the mayavaadis are also false. When their physical bodies are false automatically the tongue which is part of their body is also false. Such being the case how can one believe what ever they say? Therefore the mayavadins are openly accepting that whatever they are saying are false. Why do you want to believe false statments coming out of false people?

 

THIS WORLD IS REAL, OUR BODIES ARE REAL AND WHATEVER YOU SEE IS REAL.

LORD SHRI KRISHNA HAS CREATED THIS WORLD AND OUR BODIES.

 

Regards

Prakash--- On Thu, 2/18/10, narayana_das77 <narayanadas77@ gmail.com> wrote:

narayana_das77 <narayanadas77@ gmail.com>[Guruvayur] Re: Problem of Mayavadam .guruvayur@grou ps.comThursday, February 18, 2010, 12:24 AM

 

Dear Devotees,

Mayavada Philosophy - Impersonal and void

Mayavadis are illusionists because they teach the philosophy of Maya or Illusion.

They conclude that the manifestation of material nature ( Prakriti ) is only illusion and therefore false. However according to the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, this is not so. The manifestation of the world is not accepted as false ; it is accepted as real, but temporary and occasional. This material manifestation takes place at a certain interval, stays for a while and then disappears.

The creation and annihilation of the material world take place in terms of the time factor which is the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the supreme Lord so much adored by impersonalist philosophers.

The material creation seems to be separated from the Lord as external energy due to this time factor. This can be understood by the example of a tape recorder. It is something like the tape recorded voice of a person who is now separated from the voice. As the tape recording is situated on the tape, so the whole cosmic manifestation is situated on the Lord's material energy and appears separate by means of `kala' (time) .

The Mayavadi illusionists do not know that the material nature [prakriti] is ever existing in its subtle form [pradhana] as the energy of Bhagavan, but it sometimes manifests this nonexistent or temporarily existent nature, the cosmos [bhagavatham 3.26.9]. The material manifestation is therefore the objective manifestation of the Supreme Lord . In Bhagavad-gita , Bhagavan Sri Krishna refers to this as 'my prakriti' . This prakriti consists of the three modes of material nature : sattva-guna, raja-guna, tama-guna, which stand for equilibrium, motion and inertia. The interaction of material nature takes place when the equilibrium of the three gunas is disturbed by the time factor. Therefore, `kala' or eternal time is the primeval cause of the interactions of the three modes of material nature. Time creates, time maintains, time

destroys, and this

time factor is non other than the Lord.

Mayavadi philosophers don't believe in the Personality of the Supreme Lord. Preaching impersonal philosophy, they naturally are misleading the Vaishnavas . Vaishnavas, as well as all theistic people, who share the common concept of a Supreme God, should beware of this mayavadi philosophy which is destructive against Bhakti-yoga . Since the impersonal interpretation of the word theism already contradicts the dictionary understanding, one can easily understand how such an interpretation becomes the source of many arguments. Theo is God and God is the Supreme Person: the one without an equal - with no one superior to Him. If the Supreme had no personality, in some way He would already be less than all the thinking, feeling and willing persons of His creation. This idea is unacceptable to a Vaishnava, thus he cannot accept either Mayavada philosophy nor the Buddhist's or any other Impersonalist' s interpretations of the final truth.

Srila Prabhupada says :

Here in Vrndavana there is a big Mayavadi Sannyasi. He speaks on Bhagavatam and speaks all nonsense, but there is a big crowd go to hear him. Yes.So Mayavadis are attractive. They are very educated. They can put things in jugglery of words. That capacity they have got. So people become amazed, and almost everyone... So therefore they are not very much pleased with this Vaishnava movement, that " Krishna is God." We are preaching, and all full of Mayavadis, they are thinking, "What this nonsense is doing? Krishna..."They think Krishna is maya (Vishnu-kalevara maya) .

Krishna says, mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [bg. 7.7]. Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritah [bg. 9.11]. Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [bg. 10.8]. Repeatedly He is saying what He is, and He is personally present and all the acaryas confirming. Sri Sankaracarya says, "Sa bhagavan

svayam Krishna

.. Narayanah parah avyaktat" ( Don't bring Narayana in this material world ) . So... Bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mudha mate ( You fool , you have studied so much grammar. Now give up all this. Bhaja govindam, govinda bhaja." Nahi nahi raksati dukrn-karane: "Your grammatical knowledge, du-pratyaya, krn-pratyaya, lin-pratyaya, din-pratyaya, oh, this will not do." Bhaja govindam mudha-mate, prapte sannihite karana, hita kala-marane: "This is... Jugglery of words will not save you. This is my final instruction." Sripada Sankaracarya avoided to write any impersonal comments on Srimad-Bhagavatam. He has written comments on Bhagavad-gita, but he has completely avoided to write any comment on Bhagavatam because he knew that "I am doing the wrong thing. How can I touch Srimad-Bhagavatam?" Srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam yad vaisnavanam priyam. He has purposefully avoided. And the acarya, other acaryas like Sri Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami and up to Caitanya Mahaprabhu, everyone has accepted, Srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam Om Namo Narayana !!! Das ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- -------guruvayur@grou ps.com, "Radhe" <shaantih wrote:>> Hare Krishna!!!> > Dear Dasji:> > Can you elaborate on why you think this is so?> - > narayana_das77 > guruvayur@grou ps.com > Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:14 AM> [Guruvayur] Re: The Ten Offenses in Chanting the Holy Names> > > > > Very often, "Maya-vaadam" is a severe distraction to Vishnu-bhaktas .> That is why all Vaishnava Acharyas ( like Sri Ramanuja, Chaitahnya> Mahaprabhu, Bhaktivedanta Sarasvathi Takura , Srila Prabhupada , etc ) > flatly rejected it

..>