QS: Gita 13:32 Self (Atma) is neither doer, nor experiencer.

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

RAM RAM ! Jai Shree Krishna !

 

Lord Krishna, says in the Bhagavad Gita Shloka 13:32

" Anaadityam Nirgunatvaat Paramatmayam Avyayah

Sharirastho pi kaunteya, na karoti, ne lipyateh. "

 

" The consciousness (Atma) is without beginning, immutable and devoid

of any material attributes. Oh son of Kunti, although dwelling in

this body, it is neither a doer, nor is it influenced by any

experience. " Gita 13:32

 

Simply worded , the Self, (Atma) is neither a doer, nor an

experiencer.

 

Questions:

1) Is this just a matter of knowing (jnana)? Or is it something

that one has to realize (through anubhava)?

 

2) Since the Self is neither a doer, it is flawless, and untainted

by anything, why has Lord Krishna given so much importance and

dedicated chapters of the Gita to that which is born of prakriti

(nature), such as Gunas - Rajas, Tamas, Sattva, eight limbs of

yoga, purification of thoughts, actions etc.

 

3) Further in Gita 13:35, Lord Krishna also says that, " the one who

perceives with the eye of wisdom, this distinction, and sees the

Self as separate from Prakriti has attained the Supreme

Consciousness. " How is one to get beyond just knowing and actually

perceive this distinction between Self (Knower of Field) and

Prakriti - the Field (Body, Mind, Intellect, Ego and all that is

born of nature). How is one to truly realize the depth of this

message? Does Gita elaborate on the means to attain this

realization?

 

A sadhak

 

Ram Ram ! Jai Shree Krishna !

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram!

 

Some comments to promote further discussion and enquiry... on Geeta shaloka

13-31 ...

 

1) Is this just a matter of knowing (jnana)? Or is it something

that one has to realize (through anubhava)?

 

Comment:

Simply knowing this fact (nature of Kshetra and Kshetrajna) is not of much good

without the personal experience it is only a burden, it can give us a false

pride

that we know and others do not know. Anubhava is very essential, that is why

the scriptures follow the saints and not the other way around, because the

saints

have the experience, Kabir was one example. A crude example - knowing without

experience is like donkey carrying a load of scriptures.

 

2) Since the Self is neither a doer, it is flawless, and untainted

by anything, why has Lord Krishna given so much importance and

dedicated chapters of the Gita to that which is born of prakriti

(nature), such as Gunas - Rajas, Tamas, Sattva, eight limbs of

yoga, purification of thoughts, actions etc.

 

Comment:

Gita is a complete sastra, it is meant for all people coming from different

backgrounds, different stages of evolution, different sampardayas etc. Majority

are not ready to accept or have faith in the idea of non-doership right at the

outset, scientific background is necessary for the reasoning mind.

 

Lord Krishna is expounding the relationship between the three entities -

God, Jiva and Jagat. Discussion of gunas is essential to understand the working

of Prakriti, to show the wide diversity in the individuals. Even though,

everyone's body is made up of the same five elements and soul is the same being

a ray of supreme consciousness but yet there are differences in the mind

complex.

In essence Gita is taking us forward from whichever station we happen to be at.

 

3) Further in Gita 13:35, Lord Krishna also says that, " the one who

perceives with the eye of wisdom, this distinction, and sees the

Self as separate from Prakriti has attained the Supreme

Consciousness. " How is one to get beyond just knowing and actually

perceive this distinction between Self (Knower of Field) and

Prakriti - the Field (Body, Mind, Intellect, Ego and all that is

born of nature). How is one to truly realize the depth of this

message? Does Gita elaborate on the means to attain this

realization?

 

Comment about Shaloka # 3-34 -

There are many places in Gita (e.g., Chap 2 / 11-30)

explain what is real and unreal nature of man. Those with a reasoning mind

can reason and toil through the present life and many next lives to

understand these truths. Reason will take us to a point only and then stops.

The journey for the jnani is a tough struggle with lots of trials and

tribulations with limited success particularly in Kaliyuga.

 

Shaloka 7-14 says My Maya (Divine illusion of Mine)

made up of three Gunas is very difficult to surmount; but those who take refuge

in Me alone, cross over this illusion " .

 

Those with devotional tendencies simply accept that there is nothing

else except God. They believe that are God's and so is everything else.

They firmly take the refuge at the holy feet then do not have to tax their

mind anymore,they attain to permanant Vishram sthiti only.

 

With kind regards,

A devotee

 

 

 

On

Behalf Of mdoshi2

Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:21 PM

 

QS: Gita 13:32 Self (Atma) is neither doer, nor

experiencer.

 

 

Shree Hari

RAM RAM ! Jai Shree Krishna !

 

Lord Krishna, says in the Bhagavad Gita Shloka 13:32

" Anaadityam Nirgunatvaat Paramatmayam Avyayah

Sharirastho pi kaunteya, na karoti, ne lipyateh. "

 

" The consciousness (Atma) is without beginning, immutable and devoid

of any material attributes. Oh son of Kunti, although dwelling in

this body, it is neither a doer, nor is it influenced by any

experience. " Gita 13:32

 

Simply worded , the Self, (Atma) is neither a doer, nor an

experiencer.

 

Questions:

1) Is this just a matter of knowing (jnana)? Or is it something

that one has to realize (through anubhava)?

 

2) Since the Self is neither a doer, it is flawless, and untainted

by anything, why has Lord Krishna given so much importance and

dedicated chapters of the Gita to that which is born of prakriti

(nature), such as Gunas - Rajas, Tamas, Sattva, eight limbs of

yoga, purification of thoughts, actions etc.

 

3) Further in Gita 13:35, Lord Krishna also says that, " the one who

perceives with the eye of wisdom, this distinction, and sees the

Self as separate from Prakriti has attained the Supreme

Consciousness. " How is one to get beyond just knowing and actually

perceive this distinction between Self (Knower of Field) and

Prakriti - the Field (Body, Mind, Intellect, Ego and all that is

born of nature). How is one to truly realize the depth of this

message? Does Gita elaborate on the means to attain this

realization?

 

A sadhak

 

Ram Ram ! Jai Shree Krishna !