QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is ours. Only God is ours.

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji's comments in Gita Prabodhani for 9:27 indicate "By surrendering the Self (swayam) to God, all activities and happening whether worldly or of spiritual nature ,all are naturally and automatically surrendered to God." Next Swamiji's response to a question for the same shloka indicates the following: Question: If one performs wrongful actions and then offers these to God, then what ? Swamiji's response: Only those things and activities can be offered to God, that are in conformance to Lord's teachings, that are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God. That

devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God, he will be unable to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to make an offering of wrongful actions. It is customary that whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the devotee. If one offers these wrongful actions to God, then the punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold. My question is: Once the Self is surrendered to God, and nothing is ours anymore, absolutely nothing, then why are the actions being assumed as being performed by the individual Self? Why is a distinction being made between rightful and wrongful actions? Why is conformance to His teachings being raised? Who is conforming? When there is nothing that is ours, (i.e. not this body, not this mind, not this intellect nor this Ego) and Everything is only God's, then why does Swamiji's response to the question seem to automatically create an association (mineness) between the Self and the actions and inturn the related consequences ? Even though parts of this question have been answered by others in previous responses, it is still somewhat unclear to me . Please kindly help clarify. A sadhak Ram Ram

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[Guest guest]

Dear Saadhaks,

 

Hari Om.

 

It is humility and surrender to God's will that is most important and must be emphasized in the context of any crisis of intellect. Rama and jesus knew what they were doing was the right thing, but there was not an iota of arrogance in them. It is easy to say that everything happens according to God's will, but extremely difficult to live by this belief. Surrender to God's will is not a pose, but an attitude. It is not our will, or our mind, or our intelligence that works out things for us. The "Agent Provocateur" is within us. Every action is His. The only action that should be ours is to surrender our will to Him. This surrender He never does for us, because it has to come out of our free will. He creates only the circumstances for us to surrender to Him. If we do not voluntarily give ourselves to Him, in thought and deed, He allows us, in His infinite mercy, to be tossed about by the waves of birth and death in the ocean of 'samsara' and take our own time to come to Him.So far we have been referring to the crisis of intellect through such questions. The larger crisis of intellect finds expression in wanting to adjudicate the supreme truth. This larger crisis of intellect can be resolved only by going back to the very ancient thoughts that have remained with us for many centuries. we have to readjust our attitudes to restore the balance between intellect and intuition. Our time being finite, we do not have to delve on such entrapments of the mind.When you surrender your mind to God,it is out of love for HIM.

It is impossible in such a situation to willfully do any wrong.Even if you commit rare mistakes unknowingly,GOD will take upon himself all the consequences of such actions. However,if you commit mistakes knowingly,then you are wilfully and consciously separated from GOD.Then you are cheating yourself by surrendering to GOD.Even in such a situation GOD helps us by creating circumstances and consequences which teach us and lead us to the path of reformation and divinity.

 

Hare Krishna

 

[amit]

 

On Behalf Of Madhvi Doshi13 December 2005 09:45 Subject: QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is ours. Only God is ours.

 

 

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram

 

Swamiji's comments in Gita Prabodhani for 9:27 indicate "By surrendering the Self (swayam) to God, all activities and happening whether worldly or of spiritual nature ,all are naturally and automatically surrendered to God."

 

Next Swamiji's response to a question for the same shloka indicates the following:

 

Question: If one performs wrongful actions and then offers these to God, then what ?

Swamiji's response: Only those things and activities can be offered to God, that are in conformance to Lord's teachings, that are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God. That devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God, he will be unable to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to make an offering of wrongful actions. It is customary that whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the devotee. If one offers these wrongful actions to God, then the punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold.

 

My question is:

Once the Self is surrendered to God, and nothing is ours anymore, absolutely nothing, then why are the actions being assumed as being performed by the individual Self? Why is a distinction being made between rightful and wrongful actions? Why is conformance to His teachings being raised? Who is conforming? When there is nothing that is ours, (i.e. not this body, not this mind, not this intellect nor this Ego) and Everything is only God's, then why does Swamiji's response to the question seem to automatically create an association (mineness) between the Self and the actions and inturn the related consequences ?

 

Even though parts of this question have been answered by others in previous responses, it is still somewhat unclear to me . Please kindly help clarify.

 

A sadhak

 

Ram Ram

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram!

 

This is a very good question ...

 

The Gita shaloka (9-27), is in the context of Bhakti Yoga, Swamiji Mahaharaji's comments can be viewed in two parts:

 

I. Assuming a devotee has turned Sharangatah already, meaning that he has surrendered his Self to God then all his actions are

automatically offered to God, because the sadhka does not have an independent existence. He does not have his own free will anymore,

he is no longer the doer or questioner of who is doing the actions. Question of doing any bad actions does not arise. It is a common

knowledge, even in the lokik world when we are in love with someone, we do not do any actions to displease our loved one.

A Sharanagatah has an exclusive love (Ananya prem) for God, all his actions are done in the supreme bhava for the loved one, how

can he do anything to displease God. Also, the inspiration to do the actions also comes from God only, where is the room for error?

 

II. When all actions are offered in pure dedication as a pooja to God only, then the sadhka is free from the effects of these

actions, good or bad as they may be. God is taking the full responsibility for the fruit of actions done by the sadhka. Shaloka 9-28

supports this position. In contrast, if someone does not offer all the actions to God then he himself is responsible for the fruit of

his actions, in this case the results of the actions would be a binding to make him to continue his journey in the birth and death

cycle. .

In my humble opinion, part II seems to more in line with intent of this shaloka, since Gita is for "Sidhas", "Sadhkas" and "would be Sadhkas", i.e., for all people, from all walks of life, the shaloka outlines the qualifications required to become a Sharanagatah without any reference to the starting point of the devotee. It appears that the shaloka does not assume that a person already is a Sharanagatah, that is why it is assumed that he is doing the actions as opposed to not doing any actions in part 1.

 

With regards,

Ram Ram! A devotee!

 

 

On Behalf Of Madhvi DoshiMonday, December 12, 2005 11:15 PM Subject: QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is ours. Only God is ours.

 

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram

 

Swamiji's comments in Gita Prabodhani for 9:27 indicate "By surrendering the Self (swayam) to God, all activities and happening whether worldly or of spiritual nature ,all are naturally and automatically surrendered to God."

 

Next Swamiji's response to a question for the same shloka indicates the following:

 

Question: If one performs wrongful actions and then offers these to God, then what ?

Swamiji's response: Only those things and activities can be offered to God, that are in conformance to Lord's teachings, that are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God. That devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God, he will be unable to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to make an offering of wrongful actions. It is customary that whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the devotee. If one offers these wrongful actions to God, then the punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold.

 

My question is:

Once the Self is surrendered to God, and nothing is ours anymore, absolutely nothing, then why are the actions being assumed as being performed by the individual Self? Why is a distinction being made between rightful and wrongful actions? Why is conformance to His teachings being raised? Who is conforming? When there is nothing that is ours, (i.e. not this body, not this mind, not this intellect nor this Ego) and Everything is only God's, then why does Swamiji's response to the question seem to automatically create an association (mineness) between the Self and the actions and inturn the related consequences ?

 

Even though parts of this question have been answered by others in previous responses, it is still somewhat unclear to me . Please kindly help clarify.

 

A sadhak

 

Ram Ram

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Ram Ram

 

The main point here is of the surrender (merging) of the Self. The surrender is complete only when the 'self' (ego) does not remain. The assumption of the self being the doer is because of the question itself. The question itself is assuming that 'one is performing wrongful actions.'

 

The purpose of the human life is to realise that there is no doership in the self. The self is neither the doer not the enjoyer (Gita 13:31). The definition of right and wrong is not dependent on the action - it is actually dependent on the feeling, thought and motive behind the action. The same action may be right in a particular situation and wrong in another.

 

'Wrong' actions are basically actions which are selfish in nature - which are for one's own self interest. After surrender, there can be no action that is for one's self interest or to fulfil one's desires. Where there is kaam (desire) there is no Ram, where there is Ram, there is no kaam (desire). If there is kaam, it means you are fooling yourself that you are with Ram. You have not surrendered. And without kaam there can be no sin, no wrong (Gita 3:37).

 

Another point is that the relation of all actions is with the body and not with the self. So, if the action is for the 'self' it is wrong. There is no question of the self doing any action - whether right or wrong. If there is doership after surrender, the person is just fooling himself that he has surrendered - he actually has not surrendered.

 

The related consequences are talked because of the question itself. The question is 'then what?'. The question itself assumes, in fact knows, that 'wrong' actions have been performed. You are knowingly doing wrong actions and wanting to submit them to God. The question itself assumes an association between the self and the action.

 

Ram Ram

 

-

Madhvi Doshi

Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:44 AM

QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is ours. Only God is ours.

 

 

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram

 

Swamiji's comments in Gita Prabodhani for 9:27 indicate "By surrendering the Self (swayam) to God, all activities and happening whether worldly or of spiritual nature ,all are naturally and automatically surrendered to God."

 

Next Swamiji's response to a question for the same shloka indicates the following:

 

Question: If one performs wrongful actions and then offers these to God, then what ?

Swamiji's response: Only those things and activities can be offered to God, that are in conformance to Lord's teachings, that are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God. That devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God, he will be unable to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to make an offering of wrongful actions. It is customary that whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the devotee. If one offers these wrongful actions to God, then the punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold.

 

My question is:

Once the Self is surrendered to God, and nothing is ours anymore, absolutely nothing, then why are the actions being assumed as being performed by the individual Self? Why is a distinction being made between rightful and wrongful actions? Why is conformance to His teachings being raised? Who is conforming? When there is nothing that is ours, (i.e. not this body, not this mind, not this intellect nor this Ego) and Everything is only God's, then why does Swamiji's response to the question seem to automatically create an association (mineness) between the Self and the actions and inturn the related consequences ?

 

Even though parts of this question have been answered by others in previous responses, it is still somewhat unclear to me . Please kindly help clarify.

 

A sadhak

 

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Ram Ram

 

To better understand and experience the " flawless " Self, that is

neither a doer nor an enjoyer (Gita 13:31) from Jnana Yoga

perspective, please also read Swamiji's writings in an article in

Hindi named " Nirdoshtaa ka Anubhava. "

 

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/sad

hansudhasindhu/main.html

 

Recommended by " Yet a Sadhak " - Sarvottam

 

Ram Ram

 

, " Gita Prapann Parivar "

<sadasya@p...> wrote:

>

> Ram Ram

>

> The main point here is of the surrender (merging) of the Self. The

surrender is complete only when the 'self' (ego) does not remain.

The assumption of the self being the doer is because of the question

itself. The question itself is assuming that 'one is performing

wrongful actions.'

>

> The purpose of the human life is to realise that there is no

doership in the self. The self is neither the doer not the enjoyer

(Gita 13:31). The definition of right and wrong is not dependent on

the action - it is actually dependent on the feeling, thought and

motive behind the action. The same action may be right in a

particular situation and wrong in another.

>

> 'Wrong' actions are basically actions which are selfish in nature -

which are for one's own self interest. After surrender, there can

be no action that is for one's self interest or to fulfil one's

desires. Where there is kaam (desire) there is no Ram, where there

is Ram, there is no kaam (desire). If there is kaam, it means you

are fooling yourself that you are with Ram. You have not

surrendered. And without kaam there can be no sin, no wrong (Gita

3:37).

>

> Another point is that the relation of all actions is with the body

and not with the self. So, if the action is for the 'self' it is

wrong. There is no question of the self doing any action - whether

right or wrong. If there is doership after surrender, the person is

just fooling himself that he has surrendered - he actually has not

surrendered.

>

> The related consequences are talked because of the question

itself. The question is 'then what?'. The question itself assumes,

in fact knows, that 'wrong' actions have been performed. You are

knowingly doing wrong actions and wanting to submit them to God. The

question itself assumes an association between the self and the

action.

>

> Ram Ram

> -

> Madhvi Doshi

>

> Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:44 AM

> QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God.

Nothing is ours. Only God is ours.

>

>

> Shree Hari

>

> Ram Ram

>

> Swamiji's comments in Gita Prabodhani for 9:27 indicate " By

surrendering the Self (swayam) to God, all activities and happening

whether worldly or of spiritual nature ,all are naturally and

automatically surrendered to God. "

>

> Next Swamiji's response to a question for the same shloka

indicates the following:

>

> Question: If one performs wrongful actions and then offers

these to God, then what ?

> Swamiji's response: Only those things and activities can be

offered to God, that are in conformance to Lord's teachings, that

are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God. That

devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God, he

will be unable to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to

make an offering of wrongful actions. It is customary that

whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the

devotee. If one offers these wrongful actions to God, then the

punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold.

>

> My question is:

> Once the Self is surrendered to God, and nothing is ours

anymore, absolutely nothing, then why are the actions being assumed

as being performed by the individual Self? Why is a distinction

being made between rightful and wrongful actions? Why is

conformance to His teachings being raised? Who is conforming? When

there is nothing that is ours, (i.e. not this body, not this mind,

not this intellect nor this Ego) and Everything is only God's,

then why does Swamiji's response to the question seem to

automatically create an association (mineness) between the Self and

the actions and inturn the related consequences ?

>

> Even though parts of this question have been answered by others

in previous responses, it is still somewhat unclear to me . Please

kindly help clarify.

>

> A sadhak

>

> Ram Ram

>