RE: QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is ours. Only God

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends

Allow me to present a further insight in the beautiful discussion.

Whenever a human being taken an action, he is well aware whether he

is taking a right action or a wrong one. One can hide these feelings

and emotions from the rest of the world, but it cannot be hidden

from your own self. The God will accept only those actions which are

right and the doers will be rewarded appropriately.

 

However in cases, where the actions prove to be wrong later, but

were done in ignorance and purity of mind, these will be accepted by

God. These actions will also be rewarded by God in his own style and

will come back to the doers. These will be called as 'Lessons of

Life' and the reward for this is the wisdom that is bestowed upon

the doers. When this wisdom is spread to others, we can actually see

the Hand of God behind these actions.

 

 

Regards

Bhupinder Grewal

bhupinder.grewal

 

 

On Behalf Of sadhak_insight

Thursday, December 15, 2005 8:43 PM

 

QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing

is ours. Only God is ours.

 

Dear Friends,

I am new to this group. Please excuse any improper answers but my

answer to the question posed is as follows.

 

Here i think the distinction to be made is that when an action is

done in a detached manner unselfishly without any desire of loss or

gain, victory or defeat or selfishly for gain of any kind. Only

detached action belongs to the Lord and leaves no taint of

attachment. In such a case to believe that one owns the action or

performs it is itself a myth. An unselfish action performed without

attachment or selfish desire may appear at different times and

circumstances to be right or wrong but will not leave behind any

negative vasana.

 

Sincerely,

Dr. Vispi Jokhi

vhjokhi

 

IN RESPONSE TO:

 

Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:14:45 -0800 (PST)

Madhvi Doshi <mdoshi2

QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is

ours. Only God is ours.

 

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram

 

Swamiji's comments in Gita Prabodhani for 9:27 indicate " By

surrendering the Self (swayam) to God, all activities and happening

whether worldly or of spiritual nature ,all are naturally and

automatically surrendered to God. "

 

Next Swamiji's response to a question for the same shloka

indicates the following:

 

Question: If one performs wrongful actions and then offers these

to God, then what ?

Swamiji's response: Only those things and activities can be

offered to God, that are in conformance to Lord's teachings, that

are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God. That

devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God, he

will be unable to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to

make an offering of wrongful actions. It is customary that

whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the

devotee. If one offers these wrongful actions to God, then the

punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold.

 

My question is:

Once the Self is surrendered to God, and nothing is ours anymore,

absolutely nothing, then why are the actions being assumed as being

performed by the individual Self? Why is a distinction being made

between rightful and wrongful actions? Why is conformance to His

teachings being raised? Who is conforming? When there is nothing

that is ours, (i.e. not this body, not this mind, not this

intellect nor this Ego) and Everything is only God's, then why

does Swamiji's response to the question seem to automatically create

an association (mineness) between the Self and the actions and

inturn the related consequences ?

 

Even though parts of this question have been answered by others in

previous responses, it is still somewhat unclear to me . Please

kindly help clarify.

 

A sadhak

 

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

Thank you for your response. Your point is well taken, however the

discussion is around one who is surrendered completely to God (one

in whom the ego does not remain; one who does not have an

independent existence apart from God; one who is merged with God;

One who does not have one's own free will; one who is neither a

doer, nor an enjoyer; the one who exclusively loves God).

 

The inquiry is about that devotee, whose every action is done for

the sake of God. The question of doing anything right or wrong does

not arise as mentioned in earlier emails, because right and wrong is

not dependent on the action - it is actually dependent on the

feeling, thought and motive behind the action. One who is

surrendered to God, is doing everything only for God. There is no

selfish motive in that one's actions.

 

Hope this helps to clarify.

 

Ram Ram

 

 

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight> wrote:

>

> Dear Friends

> Allow me to present a further insight in the beautiful discussion.

> Whenever a human being taken an action, he is well aware whether

he

> is taking a right action or a wrong one. One can hide these

feelings

> and emotions from the rest of the world, but it cannot be hidden

> from your own self. The God will accept only those actions which

are

> right and the doers will be rewarded appropriately.

>

> However in cases, where the actions prove to be wrong later, but

> were done in ignorance and purity of mind, these will be accepted

by

> God. These actions will also be rewarded by God in his own style

and

> will come back to the doers. These will be called as 'Lessons of

> Life' and the reward for this is the wisdom that is bestowed upon

> the doers. When this wisdom is spread to others, we can actually

see

> the Hand of God behind these actions.

>

>

> Regards

> Bhupinder Grewal

> bhupinder.grewal@s...

>

>

>

> On Behalf Of sadhak_insight

> Thursday, December 15, 2005 8:43 PM

>

> QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God.

Nothing

> is ours. Only God is ours.

>

> Dear Friends,

> I am new to this group. Please excuse any improper answers but my

> answer to the question posed is as follows.

>

> Here i think the distinction to be made is that when an action is

> done in a detached manner unselfishly without any desire of loss

or

> gain, victory or defeat or selfishly for gain of any kind. Only

> detached action belongs to the Lord and leaves no taint of

> attachment. In such a case to believe that one owns the action or

> performs it is itself a myth. An unselfish action performed

without

> attachment or selfish desire may appear at different times and

> circumstances to be right or wrong but will not leave behind any

> negative vasana.

>

> Sincerely,

> Dr. Vispi Jokhi

> vhjokhi@

>

> IN RESPONSE TO:

>

> Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:14:45 -0800 (PST)

> Madhvi Doshi <mdoshi2@>

> QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is

> ours. Only God is ours.

>

> Shree Hari

>

> Ram Ram

>

> Swamiji's comments in Gita Prabodhani for 9:27 indicate " By

> surrendering the Self (swayam) to God, all activities and

happening

> whether worldly or of spiritual nature ,all are naturally and

> automatically surrendered to God. "

>

> Next Swamiji's response to a question for the same shloka

> indicates the following:

>

> Question: If one performs wrongful actions and then offers these

> to God, then what ?

> Swamiji's response: Only those things and activities can be

> offered to God, that are in conformance to Lord's teachings, that

> are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God. That

> devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God,

he

> will be unable to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to

> make an offering of wrongful actions. It is customary that

> whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the

> devotee. If one offers these wrongful actions to God, then the

> punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold.

>

> My question is:

> Once the Self is surrendered to God, and nothing is ours anymore,

> absolutely nothing, then why are the actions being assumed as

being

> performed by the individual Self? Why is a distinction being made

> between rightful and wrongful actions? Why is conformance to His

> teachings being raised? Who is conforming? When there is nothing

> that is ours, (i.e. not this body, not this mind, not this

> intellect nor this Ego) and Everything is only God's, then why

> does Swamiji's response to the question seem to automatically

create

> an association (mineness) between the Self and the actions and

> inturn the related consequences ?

>

> Even though parts of this question have been answered by others in

> previous responses, it is still somewhat unclear to me . Please

> kindly help clarify.

>

> A sadhak

>

> Ram Ram

>

[Guest guest]

Madhviji I think the basic issue is understanding of the true meaning of surendering/sharnagati.What is sharnagati? What it is not? By the grace of God, If you have access to Sadhak Sanjivani of param shradheya shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, Pl go thru the explanation of 9:27 as well as 18:65 / 18:66 Pl. share your understaing once you get an answer to youe question www.gitapress.org RamJai Shri Krishnasadhak_insight <sadhak_insight wrote: Dear FriendsAllow me to present a further insight in the beautiful discussion. Whenever a human being taken an action, he is well aware whether he is taking a right action or a wrong one. One can hide these feelings and emotions from the rest of the world,

but it cannot be hidden from your own self. The God will accept only those actions which are right and the doers will be rewarded appropriately. However in cases, where the actions prove to be wrong later, but were done in ignorance and purity of mind, these will be accepted by God. These actions will also be rewarded by God in his own style and will come back to the doers. These will be called as 'Lessons of Life' and the reward for this is the wisdom that is bestowed upon the doers. When this wisdom is spread to others, we can actually see the Hand of God behind these actions. RegardsBhupinder Grewalbhupinder.grewal On Behalf Of sadhak_insightThursday, December 15, 2005 8:43 PM Subject: QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is ours.

Only God is ours.Dear Friends,I am new to this group. Please excuse any improper answers but my answer to the question posed is as follows. Here i think the distinction to be made is that when an action is done in a detached manner unselfishly without any desire of loss or gain, victory or defeat or selfishly for gain of any kind. Only detached action belongs to the Lord and leaves no taint of attachment. In such a case to believe that one owns the action or performs it is itself a myth. An unselfish action performed without attachment or selfish desire may appear at different times and circumstances to be right or wrong but will not leave behind any negative vasana. Sincerely,Dr. Vispi Jokhivhjokhi IN RESPONSE TO: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:14:45 -0800 (PST)Madhvi Doshi <mdoshi2QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is ours. Only God is

ours.Shree HariRam RamSwamiji's comments in Gita Prabodhani for 9:27 indicate "By surrendering the Self (swayam) to God, all activities and happening whether worldly or of spiritual nature ,all are naturally and automatically surrendered to God."Next Swamiji's response to a question for the same shloka indicates the following:Question: If one performs wrongful actions and then offers these to God, then what ?Swamiji's response: Only those things and activities can be offered to God, that are in conformance to Lord's teachings, that are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God. That devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God, he will be unable to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to make an offering of wrongful actions. It is customary that whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the devotee. If one offers these wrongful actions to God,

then the punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold.My question is:Once the Self is surrendered to God, and nothing is ours anymore, absolutely nothing, then why are the actions being assumed as being performed by the individual Self? Why is a distinction being made between rightful and wrongful actions? Why is conformance to His teachings being raised? Who is conforming? When there is nothing that is ours, (i.e. not this body, not this mind, not this intellect nor this Ego) and Everything is only God's, then why does Swamiji's response to the question seem to automatically create an association (mineness) between the Self and the actions and inturn the related consequences ?Even though parts of this question have been answered by others in previous responses, it is still somewhat unclear to me . Please kindly help clarify.A sadhakRam Ram

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram

 

By God's grace , I read Shloka Gita 9:27, 18:65 and 18:66 from

Sadhak Sanjivani written by Param Shreddhey Swami Ramsukhdasji

Maharaj. Swamiji has explained Sharanagati (taking refuge in God)

so incredibly beautifully. It would do tremendous injustice to

summarize this to try to share my understanding, so those who have

Sadhak Sanjivani, please read or visit the hindi version at

www.swamiramsukhdasji.org (under Pustak – books). Link:

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/Sad

hakSanjeevni/main.html

 

Also, several sadhaks have explained this beautifully in earlier

discussion around this topic, so please revisit their responses, as

each one is special. I would like to share with you some insights

to follow through with Vimalji's suggestion in earlier note:

 

The Lord declares that the be all and end all of the entire Gita is:

1) " Take refuge in Me alone, " (Mamekum Sharanam vraja) and

2) " Do not grieve. " (Ma Suchaha).

 

From reading these shlokas, complete sharanagati as I understand it,

is acceptance of these two declarations.

Swamiji has taken taken the entire essence of the Gita and given

this to us in the form of " Nectar " in two simple affirmations:

 

" I am only God's and only God is mine. "

 

Swamiji says, this is the quintessence of all spiritual

disciplines. When one accepts that " I am God's and God is mine, "

all defects such as worry, fear, sadness, doubts are rooted out.

The reason we have these defects in the first place, is that all

defects are based on one's dependence on the world, including the

body, and on one's disinclination for God.

 

To accept " I am only God's and only God is mine, " i.e. taking

refuge in the Lord (sharanagati), neither eligibility, nor

capability, nor quality, nor virtue are as important as a sense of

mine-ness (apnaapan) or firm affinity with the Lord.

 

The criteria for our firm affinity (apnaapan) with the Lord are:

1)Free from worries (Nischint)i.e. no worries about our

shortcomings, even if thoughts and feelings have not been purified.

We are God's, no matter what we are.

2)Free from sorrow (Nishaukh) i.e. no grieving over the past, as

every action, incident, or circumstance destined by the Lord is for

our own good.

3)Free from fear (Nirbhaya) i.e. free from external and internal

fear, including having no fear whether our tendencies may be of an

evil nature, as these are not ours. It is being fearless like a

child in the lap of his mother.

4)Free from doubt (Nishank) i.e. We must not doubt whether the Lord

has accepted us or not. I am God's and God is mine without any

doubt.

5)Free from testing our sharanagati (pariksha ne karna) i.e. We must

not put our surrender to test, that we should possess such virtues,

and if these virtues are not there, then it means we have not taken

true refuge since the signs of a true devotee are missing in us.

6)Free from contrary resolutions (vipareet dhaarnaa ne karna)– Have

firm resolve that our relationship with God is permanent and

eternal, and we are only His. The mistake that we had once made is

now wiped out forever.

 

So the question that was posed which started this discussion, even

though it seemed appropriate at that time, is not of concern to a

sharanagat bhakt (as expressed by many sadhaks in earlier emails),

as we are only an instrument in His sweet will. And whatever we do,

we only do His work. And we ever remain pleased, with His will,

without having any desire of our own, no matter what the situation

or circumstance. And with this, His love enhances ever moment

(pratikshan vardhaman prem). And all this is only possible because

of His grace.

 

Ram Ram

 

 

 

, vimal modi <modivg1> wrote:

>

> Madhviji

> I think the basic issue is understanding of the true meaning of

surendering/sharnagati.

> What is sharnagati? What it is not?

> By the grace of God, If you have access to Sadhak Sanjivani of

param shradheya shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, Pl go thru the

explanation of 9:27

> as well as 18:65 / 18:66

> Pl. share your understaing once you get an answer to youe

question

> www.gitapress.org

>

> Ram

> Jai Shri Krishna

>

> sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight> wrote:

> Dear Friends

> Allow me to present a further insight in the beautiful discussion.

> Whenever a human being taken an action, he is well aware whether

he

> is taking a right action or a wrong one. One can hide these

feelings

> and emotions from the rest of the world, but it cannot be hidden

> from your own self. The God will accept only those actions which

are

> right and the doers will be rewarded appropriately.

>

> However in cases, where the actions prove to be wrong later, but

> were done in ignorance and purity of mind, these will be accepted

by

> God. These actions will also be rewarded by God in his own style

and

> will come back to the doers. These will be called as 'Lessons of

> Life' and the reward for this is the wisdom that is bestowed upon

> the doers. When this wisdom is spread to others, we can actually

see

> the Hand of God behind these actions.

>

>

> Regards

> Bhupinder Grewal

> bhupinder.grewal@s...

>

>

>

> On Behalf Of sadhak_insight

> Thursday, December 15, 2005 8:43 PM

>

> QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God.

Nothing

> is ours. Only God is ours.

>

> Dear Friends,

> I am new to this group. Please excuse any improper answers but my

> answer to the question posed is as follows.

>

> Here i think the distinction to be made is that when an action is

> done in a detached manner unselfishly without any desire of loss

or

> gain, victory or defeat or selfishly for gain of any kind. Only

> detached action belongs to the Lord and leaves no taint of

> attachment. In such a case to believe that one owns the action or

> performs it is itself a myth. An unselfish action performed

without

> attachment or selfish desire may appear at different times and

> circumstances to be right or wrong but will not leave behind any

> negative vasana.

>

> Sincerely,

> Dr. Vispi Jokhi

> vhjokhi@

>

> IN RESPONSE TO:

>

> Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:14:45 -0800 (PST)

> Madhvi Doshi <mdoshi2@>

> QS: Gita 9:27 - Surrender Self to God. Nothing is

> ours. Only God is ours.

>

> Shree Hari

>

> Ram Ram

>

> Swamiji's comments in Gita Prabodhani for 9:27 indicate " By

> surrendering the Self (swayam) to God, all activities and

happening

> whether worldly or of spiritual nature ,all are naturally and

> automatically surrendered to God. "

>

> Next Swamiji's response to a question for the same shloka

> indicates the following:

>

> Question: If one performs wrongful actions and then offers these

> to God, then what ?

> Swamiji's response: Only those things and activities can be

> offered to God, that are in conformance to Lord's teachings, that

> are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God. That

> devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God,

he

> will be unable to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to

> make an offering of wrongful actions. It is customary that

> whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the

> devotee. If one offers these wrongful actions to God, then the

> punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold.

>

> My question is:

> Once the Self is surrendered to God, and nothing is ours anymore,

> absolutely nothing, then why are the actions being assumed as

being

> performed by the individual Self? Why is a distinction being made

> between rightful and wrongful actions? Why is conformance to His

> teachings being raised? Who is conforming? When there is nothing

> that is ours, (i.e. not this body, not this mind, not this

> intellect nor this Ego) and Everything is only God's, then why

> does Swamiji's response to the question seem to automatically

create

> an association (mineness) between the Self and the actions and

> inturn the related consequences ?

>

> Even though parts of this question have been answered by others in

> previous responses, it is still somewhat unclear to me . Please

> kindly help clarify.

>

> A sadhak

>

> Ram Ram

>

>

>

>