Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Shree Hari Ram Ram Pujya Swamiji's often says in Gita and related discourses - 1) The enjoyer of pleasures, will no doubt have to experience the sorrow that follows. (Sukh ke bhogi ko dukh bhognaa ni padtaa hai). 2) Secondly, sorrow does not come due to enjoyment in the pleasures, but rather it is the desire for enjoyments (Dukh ka kaaran bhog nahi hai, pratyuk bhog ki icchaa). What do these two really mean? Pray, I seek your guidance. A Sadhak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 IT IS NOT TRUE .REMEMBER IT YOU REMEMBER GOD IN SUKH THEN DUKH KAHEY KO HOYE . DUKH IS GOD'SWAY OF SHOWING YOU THE PATH OR DIRECT YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH mdoshi2 <mdoshi2 Sent: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:45:47 -0000 Q: Reason for Sorrow Shree Hari Ram Ram Pujya Swamiji's often says in Gita and related discourses - 1) The enjoyer of pleasures, will no doubt have to experience the sorrow that follows. (Sukh ke bhogi ko dukh bhognaa ni padtaa hai). 2) Secondly, sorrow does not come due to enjoyment in the pleasures, but rather it is the desire for enjoyments (Dukh ka kaaran bhog nahi hai, pratyuk bhog ki icchaa). What do these two really mean? Pray, I seek your guidance. A Sadhak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Dear Divine, Pranam. We want to be clear on few points: * the body is just an object - jada, does not enjoy anything, not capable of enjoying anything at its own, if the presence of Soul is not there. Are you with me so far? In other words, we enjoy or be sorrowful only because we are alive, dead body can not. * We become joyous or sorrowful only because we consider ourselves separate from the Soul. At the moment of enjoyment or sorrowfulness, not being situated in SELF, we forget this aspect that actually the 'I' has no value what so ever without HIS grace or presence in this body. So we separate ourselves, even though we are not, we do, from the SELF by saying, 'I am enjoying...' When we say this, we disassociate ourselves with the soul and associate ourselves with the body, ego, and mind. So if we accept body can not enjoy, we conclude it is the mind who is enjoying and that is also not true!! * So the enjoyment is not in any object. For example, if the enjoyment is in sweets, we could eat only sweets and remain joyful for ever but that doesn't happen. On the contrary, after eating certain amount of sweets we become sick, throw-up, and may not even want to touch it again. So it is clear that the root of our enjoyments are within us - the subtle aspect of us and not the gross (body) aspect of us. What happens, we say I am enjoying it because of our association with the body, ego, mind and intellect or because of our ignorance of the TRUE enjoyer! At the time of enjoyment we forget that my tongue is enjoying sweets because of the power of the Soul present in it. Because of this power's presence in my saliva, on my tongue, in my brain, in my mind, the one who is present within me is truly enjoying it through these organs than we won't attach ourselves (I, ego) to the enjoyment, we can't because we are so helpless without HIS presence!!! * So mentally when we accept enjoyment and associate our enjoyment with the presence of certain object we have created problem for us. Because our enjoyment is dependent on certain object (according to the above bullets, the true enjoyment is not in object but we fail to recognize this fact) and upon its removal we will become sorrowful or sad. Therefore, there is nothing wrong in enjoying anything but when the enjoyment is conditional or dependent on any external object (including our body) or having certain situation be present, the separation will cause sorrowfulness or sadness to the one who says I am enjoying... * The moment we desire these external objects, conditions or situations to be present for our enjoyment, we have already created unspoken desire in it, i.e., to enjoy the fruit of our action because as we desire for certain object to be present for our enjoyment we work for it so we stared the endless cycle. Most of the time, our desire itself is a fruit that we start with - we start with the fruit of the action in our mind first and then gear our actions to attain it! E.g., I want to eat a nice meal that is my desire, it is the end result of my actions that I am going to take in cooking and then having a nice meal. Or I want to become a rich, this desire is the end result of all of my hard work / actions for me to become a doctor and establish my practices that will earn me good to call myself a rich. Am I making any sense? So when Babaji says to renounce the fruit of our actions, you got the point what he meant to renounce :-) If the fruit of the action is renounced, we are not impacted by joy or sorrowfulness. If whatever comes to us for our consumption and we consume it not expecting any more of it or less of it; whatever opportunity is presented to us and we utilize it without expecting good or bad; even though we become bhokta, we remain detached because in this case we have truly understood and accepted the fact who is the true bhokta and we maintain equanimity, nothing can impact us. Am I making any sense? The pure desire in itself is not bad either but attaching ourselves with the fruit of that desire causes both enjoyment and sorrowfulness. Always at Thy Holy Feet On Behalf Of mdoshi2 Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:46 PM Q: Reason for Sorrow Shree Hari Ram Ram Pujya Swamiji's often says in Gita and related discourses - 1) The enjoyer of pleasures, will no doubt have to experience the sorrow that follows. (Sukh ke bhogi ko dukh bhognaa ni padtaa hai). 2) Secondly, sorrow does not come due to enjoyment in the pleasures, but rather it is the desire for enjoyments (Dukh ka kaaran bhog nahi hai, pratyuk bhog ki icchaa). What do these two really mean? Pray, I seek your guidance. A Sadhak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2006 Report Share Posted February 22, 2006 Divine One: ******************************** >1) The enjoyer of pleasures, will no doubt have to experience the >sorrow that follows. (Sukh ke bhogi ko dukh bhognaa ni padtaa hai). ************************ Absolutely true! ******************************** >2) Secondly, sorrow does not come due to enjoyment in the pleasures, >but rather it is the desire for enjoyments (Dukh ka kaaran bhog nahi >hai, pratyuk bhog ki icchaa). ************************ Again very true! ******************** > >What do these two really mean? ********************** One has to understand the definition of happiness and sadness. Then their source and the mechanism. The source of Happiness and sadness is mind. Mind with the sense organs touch the sense objects. Reaction of this " touching " process is processed by the " buddhi " with feedback of " chitta " . Mind has four aspects. manas, chitta(database), buddhi (deciding factor) and ahamkAra(ego). " Chitta " is the database which is the store house of all the effects of past habits of many lives. Depending upon the content of the database a person's likeness and dislikess is determined so also the happiness and sadness. That is the reason both happiness and sadness are relative. As long as happiness is there, sadness has to be there. One provides the definition of the other. They are just like two sides of the same coin. The root cause of all these is desire or kAmanA. As long as one has desire, one has to take 'bodies " which will go through train of happiness and sadness. Only way to be in bliss is to go beyond happiness and sadness by not creating new desires and remaining witness to the happenings in one's life. Surrender to the Lord is the best process. As Lord Krishna says in the Gita " abhyAsa " (practice) and " vairAgya " (Detachment) are the keys. Now the question is practice what and detachment from what. Practice being the witness having the " vichAra " or discrimination that nothing is permanent. In that case why get attached to the passing events and objects. This practice with detachment in total surrender to the Lord will lead the path to " Unchanging " which is always there yet not there for those having no Divya Chakssu or Divine Eye or jnAna chakssu or Eye of knowledge. Please continue the sAdhanA without any expectation from anybody and any thing surrendring all to the Lord. And one day it will happen! The ultimate objective of human life i.e. God realization - the end of all sorrows for ever. humble regards -m > > >mdoshi2 <mdoshi2 > >Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:45:47 -0000 > Q: Reason for Sorrow > > >Shree Hari >Ram Ram > >Pujya Swamiji's often says in Gita and related discourses - > >1) The enjoyer of pleasures, will no doubt have to experience the >sorrow that follows. (Sukh ke bhogi ko dukh bhognaa ni padtaa hai). > >2) Secondly, sorrow does not come due to enjoyment in the pleasures, >but rather it is the desire for enjoyments (Dukh ka kaaran bhog nahi >hai, pratyuk bhog ki icchaa). > >What do these two really mean? > >Pray, I seek your guidance. > >A Sadhak > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Priy Sadhak, From ur recent questions i understand that u are very eager to understand geeta.I pray u to study SADHAK-SANJIVANI by swamiji.It will give u all the answers u need. Till that time I want to present my views on this Q. Actually the desire of any thing is binding & ultimately cause of sorrow.Not the physical matter.therefore it is to be understood by everyone from his/her own experience of life. When u enjoy something the desire for that goes deep in ur MANAS(deep conscience) & that creates lack of thing in u. Ultimately u think that it should come to me in lot & always remain with me.Which is not possible due to world is changing lot of matter.Nothing can remain forever same.This desire is the cause of sorrow. Hope u get my point of view which is not mine but swamiji's. divine love to u Hariom. Raja.mdoshi2 <mdoshi2 wrote: Shree Hari Ram Ram Pujya Swamiji's often says in Gita and related discourses - 1) The enjoyer of pleasures, will no doubt have to experience the sorrow that follows. (Sukh ke bhogi ko dukh bhognaa ni padtaa hai). 2) Secondly, sorrow does not come due to enjoyment in the pleasures, but rather it is the desire for enjoyments (Dukh ka kaaran bhog nahi hai, pratyuk bhog ki icchaa). What do these two really mean? Pray, I seek your guidance. A Sadhak Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, more on new and used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 SADNESS IS ARELATIVE TERM OF COURSE ENJOYMENT IS NOT PERMANENT THOU IT APPEARS SAD IN COMPARASION TO JOYFULNESS THERE IS NO RULE IN ANY BOOK THAT SADNESS WILL FOLLOW YOU SOUND LIKE MAKING IT A PUNISHMENT FOR THE ENJOYMENT THAT IS NOT THE CASE. THE SADNESS COMES FROM OTHER SOURCES I E DURING ENJOYMENT YOU TEND TO LET YOUR EGO TAKE OVER ETC IT IS MY LOGICAL OPENION PERSON HIMSELF BRING ON THE SORROWNESS THANK GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS Manoj Panda <pandamanoj Sent: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 03:21:32 +0000Re: Q: Reason for Sorrow Divine One: ******************************** >1) The enjoyer of pleasures, will no doubt have to experience the >sorrow that follows. (Sukh ke bhogi ko dukh bhognaa ni padtaa hai). ************************ Absolutely true! ******************************** >2) Secondly, sorrow does not come due to enjoyment in the pleasures, >but rather it is the desire for enjoyments (Dukh ka kaaran bhog nahi >hai, pratyuk bhog ki icchaa). ************************ Again very true! ******************** > >What do these two really mean? ********************** One has to understand the definition of happiness and sadness. Then their source and the mechanism. The source of Happiness and sadness is mind. Mind with the sense organs touch the sense objects. Reaction of this "touching" process is processed by the "buddhi" with feedback of "chitta". Mind has four aspects. manas, chitta(database), buddhi (deciding factor) and ahamkAra(ego). "Chitta" is the database which is the store house of all the effects of past habits of many lives. Depending upon the content of the database a person's likeness and dislikess is determined so also the happiness and sadness. That is the reason both happiness and sadness are relative. As long as happiness is there, sadness has to be there. One provides the definition of the other. They are just like two sides of the same coin. The root cause of all these is desire or kAmanA. As long as one has desire, one has to take 'bodies" which will go through train of happiness and sadness. Only way to be in bliss is to go beyond happiness and sadness by not creating new desires and remaining witness to the happenings in one's life. Surrender to the Lord is the best process. As Lord Krishna says in the Gita "abhyAsa" (practice) and "vairAgya" (Detachment) are the keys. Now the question is practice what and detachment from what. Practice being the witness having the "vichAra" or discrimination that nothing is permanent. In that case why get attached to the passing events and objects. This practice with detachment in total surrender to the Lord will lead the path to "Unchanging" which is always there yet not there for those having no Divya Chakssu or Divine Eye or jnAna chakssu or Eye of knowledge. Please continue the sAdhanA without any expectation from anybody and any thing surrendring all to the Lord. And one day it will happen! The ultimate objective of human life i.e. God realization - the end of all sorrows for ever. humble regards -m > > >mdoshi2 <mdoshi2 > >Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:45:47 -0000 > Q: Reason for Sorrow > > >Shree Hari >Ram Ram > >Pujya Swamiji's often says in Gita and related discourses - > >1) The enjoyer of pleasures, will no doubt have to experience the >sorrow that follows. (Sukh ke bhogi ko dukh bhognaa ni padtaa hai). > >2) Secondly, sorrow does not come due to enjoyment in the pleasures, >but rather it is the desire for enjoyments (Dukh ka kaaran bhog nahi >hai, pratyuk bhog ki icchaa). > >What do these two really mean? > >Pray, I seek your guidance. > >A Sadhak > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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