Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Shree Hari Ram Ram > I recently heard a Hindu Spiritual Leader on TV Asia, whose general theme was - It is Ok to go ahead and enjoy Wealth and Glamour(Shree)... But do not forget Hari(God). After all Dwarka was made of gold too. I am often confused with the contradictions amongst various hindu spiritual masters. So utterly conflicting are the various messages from various spritual speakers. Living in the West, I feel torn and do not know whether it is possible to live as Swami Ramsukhdasji suggests - " Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai. " (i.e. No enjoyment of pleasures and accumulation of wealth and other things) and at the same time do not>know if " Shree " is OK to go ahead and enjoy? 1) What is the right thing to do based on the Gita ? 2) How to know, who is the right Guru (that can be trusted / believed)? What are the qualities? 3) What does Gita say about Guru or Spiritual Master? 4) Is there a need for a Guru? What if none appear to make the mark of an ideal Guru in your judgement ? 5) Should women have a spiritual master? I seek advice, kindly, Mamta Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Ram Ram, I get all these messages of interpretations and some speculations. These discussions though are good but serve no purpose. The best method to advance spiritually is to find a GURU who does not have business, helps to advance in spiritual matters without greed. Spiritual master then can give you knowledge but do not make Guru who is householder i. e. has family otherwise you will be source of money to his /her family. Guru must be a Sanyasi who does not own anything only that guru can give you knowledge. Ram Ram On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 13:05:43 -0500 " Mamta Kaura " <mamtakaura writes: > Shree Hari > > Ram Ram > > > I recently heard a Hindu Spiritual Leader on TV Asia, whose general > theme was - It is Ok to go ahead and enjoy Wealth and > Glamour(Shree)... > But do not forget Hari(God). After all Dwarka was made of gold > too. > > I am often confused with the contradictions amongst various hindu > spiritual masters. So utterly conflicting are the various messages > from > various spritual speakers. Living in the West, I feel torn and do > not > know whether it is possible to live as Swami Ramsukhdasji suggests > - > " Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai. " (i.e. No enjoyment of pleasures > and > accumulation of wealth and other things) and at the same time do > not>know if > " Shree " is OK to go ahead and enjoy? > > 1) What is the right thing to do based on the Gita ? > 2) How to know, who is the right Guru (that can be trusted / > believed)? > What are > the qualities? > 3) What does Gita say about Guru or Spiritual Master? > 4) Is there a need for a Guru? What if none appear to make the > mark of > an ideal Guru in your judgement ? > 5) Should women have a spiritual master? > > I seek advice, kindly, Mamta > Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Divine One! You have captured the quintessence of confusion in many minds. Hinduism is very flexible. It provides path for many for God realization in many ways. But no matter which path one may follow the essence is vairAgya (Detachment) and abhyAsa (practice). Why one should be spiritual any way? The answer is simple; to be in bliss eternally. Every conscious effort of every being is to be happy. No matter what any one does it is to be happy in some way or other. But the problem is the material achievements and enjoyments through sense organs and mind do not give uniterrupted bliss. No matter how anybody can try through material means it is impossible to get eternal bliss. But spirituality can provide that bliss for ever. It fulfills the ultimate objective of our every endeavor. This is real " Mukti " or liberation from all sorrows. Currently religiosity and spirituality have become easy means to dupe people. The spirit of saffron clothes and outward accoutrement of a sAdhu have been compromised. It is sad. It is a pity. There is no doubt that regular hardworking honest people will not be convinced from just the appearance of a person. Yet the people get themselves deceived. Why? There are two reasons. One reason is that they are going through a suffering from which they need quick deliverance which some of these people falsely promise second one is that the people want to fulfill their multitude of material desires by hook or by crook. But let me assure you by the name of the Lord that whoever sincerely seeks only Lord nothing but Lord, Lord Himself shows the path as a guide. There is absolutely no doubt about it. It has been proven by many people in all ages and all places. Now let's answer your questions. ************************ >1) What is the right thing to do based on the Gita ? ********************* Be a witness. " sAkssI bhAva " . All these events in personal life and life around are part of the drama which is continuing on the " unchanging " . One has to identify with the " unchanging " . That is Real. Everything else is False in the sense that it changes continuously. ********************* >2) How to know, who is the right Guru (that can be trusted / believed)? >What are the qualities? ******************** A sincere seeker of the Truth feels that in the heart when the real Master appears. It cannot be explained yet can be experienced. True Guru knows who is the disciple. He has been ordained by Lord to lead that sincere seeker in the path of Truth. When the seeker is sincerely looking for a Guru, at the right time Guru appears. However in Viveka ChuDamani Adi Shankara describes the qualities of a Guru as follows: shrotriyobrujinokAmahato yo brahmabittamah brahmaNyuparatah shAnto nirindhana ivAnalah ahetukadayAsindhurbandhurAnamatAm satAm. " He who is well versed in scriptures, sinless, unafflicted by desires, a full knower of Supreme, who has retired into Supreme, who is as calm as the fire that has burnt up the fuel, who is boundless ocean of mercy that needs no cause for its expression and who is an intimate friend of those who has surrendered unto him. " A true Guru also offers himself for any testing by the disciple. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa told that a disciple has to test his Guru just like a money changer tests the money. He proved that by offering himself to all tests by Swami Vivekanada even when his body was going through intense suffering on death bed! ************************************************** >3) What does Gita say about Guru or Spiritual Master? ************************* Please refer to verses 54 to 72 in Chapter 2 of Srimad Bhagavad Gita. ******************* >4) Is there a need for a Guru? What if none appear to make the mark of >an ideal Guru in your judgement ? *************************************** Absolutely! Even Lord Rama and Lord Krishna had Gurus. One has to be patient and pray sincerely to Lord. When the desire to be on the path of God Realization becomes intense Guru is bound to appear. There is no doubt. ***************************** >5) Should women have a spiritual master? ************** A bound soul takes the bodies of a man or a woman according to " prArabdha " or " karma phala " . Every bound soul has every right to be free as it is its birth right. So why not? However they have to be extra-careful as their nature is to believe easily. Sincere prayer to the Lord is the only means. And every sincere prayer is answered. Lord has guaranteed that in Gita unequivocally in many places. *********************** One has to do one's best and leave the rest to Lord. Surrender is the key. The degree of freedom from sorrows depends upon the degree of surrender and in turn on the degree of removal of " I " ness and " my " ness. May the blessings of Lord Shiva be upon us always in removing the ignorance, that is this little one's prayer on the auspicious occasion of mahA Shiva rAtri! Thank you! humble regards -m > " Mamta Kaura " <mamtakaura > > > FW: Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai >Sun, 26 Feb 2006 13:05:43 -0500 > >Shree Hari > >Ram Ram > > >I recently heard a Hindu Spiritual Leader on TV Asia, whose general >theme was - It is Ok to go ahead and enjoy Wealth and Glamour(Shree)... >But do not forget Hari(God). After all Dwarka was made of gold too. > >I am often confused with the contradictions amongst various hindu >spiritual masters. So utterly conflicting are the various messages from >various spritual speakers. Living in the West, I feel torn and do not >know whether it is possible to live as Swami Ramsukhdasji suggests - > " Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai. " (i.e. No enjoyment of pleasures and >accumulation of wealth and other things) and at the same time do not>know >if > " Shree " is OK to go ahead and enjoy? > >1) What is the right thing to do based on the Gita ? >2) How to know, who is the right Guru (that can be trusted / believed)? >What are >the qualities? >3) What does Gita say about Guru or Spiritual Master? >4) Is there a need for a Guru? What if none appear to make the mark of >an ideal Guru in your judgement ? >5) Should women have a spiritual master? > >I seek advice, kindly, Mamta >Ram Ram > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 REMEMBER GOD IS THE GURU OF ALL GURUS YOU HAVE TO HAVE FAITH HE WILL IN HIS MYSTERIOUS WAYS WILL GUIDE YOU AND WILL BE WITH YOU S.K. CHAM Manoj Panda <pandamanoj (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 04:32:17 +0000RE: FW: Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai Divine One! You have captured the quintessence of confusion in many minds. Hinduism is very flexible. It provides path for many for God realization in many ways. But no matter which path one may follow the essence is vairAgya (Detachment) and abhyAsa (practice). Why one should be spiritual any way? The answer is simple; to be in bliss eternally. Every conscious effort of every being is to be happy. No matter what any one does it is to be happy in some way or other. But the problem is the material achievements and enjoyments through sense organs and mind do not give uniterrupted bliss. No matter how anybody can try through material means it is impossible to get eternal bliss. But spirituality can provide that bliss for ever. It fulfills the ultimate objective of our every endeavor. This is real "Mukti" or liberation from all sorrows. Currently religiosity and spirituality have become easy means to dupe people. The spirit of saffron clothes and outward accoutrement of a sAdhu have been compromised. It is sad. It is a pity. There is no doubt that regular hardworking honest people will not be convinced from just the appearance of a person. Yet the people get themselves deceived. Why? There are two reasons. One reason is that they are going through a suffering from which they need quick deliverance which some of these people falsely promise second one is that the people want to fulfill their multitude of material desires by hook or by crook. But let me assure you by the name of the Lord that whoever sincerely seeks only Lord nothing but Lord, Lord Himself shows the path as a guide. There is absolutely no doubt about it. It has been proven by many people in all ages and all places. Now let's answer your questions. ************************ >1) What is the right thing to do based on the Gita ? ********************* Be a witness. "sAkssI bhAva". All these events in personal life and life around are part of the drama which is continuing on the "unchanging". One has to identify with the "unchanging". That is Real. Everything else is False in the sense that it changes continuously. ********************* >2) How to know, who is the right Guru (that can be trusted / believed)? >What are the qualities? ******************** A sincere seeker of the Truth feels that in the heart when the real Master appears. It cannot be explained yet can be experienced. True Guru knows who is the disciple. He has been ordained by Lord to lead that sincere seeker in the path of Truth. When the seeker is sincerely looking for a Guru, at the right time Guru appears. However in Viveka ChuDamani Adi Shankara describes the qualities of a Guru as follows: shrotriyobrujinokAmahato yo brahmabittamah brahmaNyuparatah shAnto nirindhana ivAnalah ahetukadayAsindhurbandhurAnamatAm satAm. "He who is well versed in scriptures, sinless, unafflicted by desires, a full knower of Supreme, who has retired into Supreme, who is as calm as the fire that has burnt up the fuel, who is boundless ocean of mercy that needs no cause for its expression and who is an intimate friend of those who has surrendered unto him." A true Guru also offers himself for any testing by the disciple. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa told that a disciple has to test his Guru just like a money changer tests the money. He proved that by offering himself to all tests by Swami Vivekanada even when his body was going through intense suffering on death bed! ************************************************** >3) What does Gita say about Guru or Spiritual Master? ************************* Please refer to verses 54 to 72 in Chapter 2 of Srimad Bhagavad Gita. ******************* >4) Is there a need for a Guru? What if none appear to make the mark of >an ideal Guru in your judgement ? *************************************** Absolutely! Even Lord Rama and Lord Krishna had Gurus. One has to be patient and pray sincerely to Lord. When the desire to be on the path of God Realization becomes intense Guru is bound to appear. There is no doubt. ***************************** >5) Should women have a spiritual master? ************** A bound soul takes the bodies of a man or a woman according to "prArabdha" or "karma phala". Every bound soul has every right to be free as it is its birth right. So why not? However they have to be extra-careful as their nature is to believe easily. Sincere prayer to the Lord is the only means. And every sincere prayer is answered. Lord has guaranteed that in Gita unequivocally in many places. *********************** One has to do one's best and leave the rest to Lord. Surrender is the key. The degree of freedom from sorrows depends upon the degree of surrender and in turn on the degree of removal of "I"ness and "my"ness. May the blessings of Lord Shiva be upon us always in removing the ignorance, that is this little one's prayer on the auspicious occasion of mahA Shiva rAtri! Thank you! humble regards -m >"Mamta Kaura" <mamtakaura (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> > > > FW: Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai >Sun, 26 Feb 2006 13:05:43 -0500 > >Shree Hari > >Ram Ram > > >I recently heard a Hindu Spiritual Leader on TV Asia, whose general >theme was - It is Ok to go ahead and enjoy Wealth and Glamour(Shree)... >But do not forget Hari(God). After all Dwarka was made of gold too. > >I am often confused with the contradictions amongst various hindu >spiritual masters. So utterly conflicting are the various messages from >various spritual speakers. Living in the West, I feel torn and do not >know whether it is possible to live as Swami Ramsukhdasji suggests - >"Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai." (i.e. No enjoyment of pleasures and >accumulation of wealth and other things) and at the same time do not>know >if >"Shree" is OK to go ahead and enjoy? > >1) What is the right thing to do based on the Gita ? >2) How to know, who is the right Guru (that can be trusted / believed)? >What are >the qualities? >3) What does Gita say about Guru or Spiritual Master? >4) Is there a need for a Guru? What if none appear to make the mark of >an ideal Guru in your judgement ? >5) Should women have a spiritual master? > >I seek advice, kindly, Mamta >Ram Ram > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Divine Soul, Pranam. I am covering responses to few questions raised in recent emails... All demi-gods & goddesses presented in Hinduism are fully loaded with all kinds of material things such as wife/husband, children, all kinds of jewels & jewelry, weapons, vehicles, and what not? We offer all good food to them when we pray. So one view is if they can have it why not us? It is not because they have it so why not us, but a slight twist, if they have it and God is within us too why not offer it to the God within us & what's wrong about it. Isn't it? But, this is the physical aspect, very gross aspect of how the spirituality is represented in pictorial views because God is such a subjective aspect, it is difficult to explain in just one way. For example, if one wants to say something about energy situated in aajnaa chakra (soul/command center or point between two eyebrows), one can just draw a 3rd eye there like we show in the pictures of Shiva, it communicates it all to those who understand what the 3rd eye means in spirituality but the one who don't have spiritual maturity will interpret it a god literally having 3 eyes! Same way if you want to represent the 'Bhagwaan' aspect of God, you show God in the form of Krishna or Ram, fully loaded with all kinds of jewelry, their weapons, etc. on them, gorgeous background showing various jewels studded on the walls of their palaces, golden pillar, etc. It simply says He is the owner of Shree, Yesh, Virya, etc. but the person who is very much situated at grosser level will see all gold & jewelry - bodily, outward, grosser level of decorations and appreciate the grosser beauty but will not understand the spiritual meaning behind it. So to understand the spiritual meaning one has to grow out of the grosser plane, isn't it? So when we say who is the bhokta, if we say 'I am', we associated ourselves with the grosser aspect of it but when we accept what Lord had said in Gita - 'harir daataa, harir bhokta, harih annam prjaapatihi, hari sarva sharireshu, bhunkte bhojayate harihi' automatically we realize here that even though we are eating the food, we are not the bhokta. So it is immaterial whether it is the subject of enjoyment or sorrow, if we are detached from it, if we are not the bhokta anyway, i.e., knowing the TRUE enjoyer or sufferer, then where the question of enjoyment or sorrowfulness comes? When you are not it, why bother? Am I making any sense? 'I' is simply an intermediary between the object of enjoyment and the TRUE enjoyer, if we remove it from the middle or make it a 'witness' then this 'I' being 'me' is not at all involved in enjoying or suffering!!! So, there is nothing wrong with anything, because right and wrong are our own creation and not God's and like I said before, we entangle ourselves into our own creation and then make so much effort to get out of it. We must have the basic understanding and that is, the seed you sow is the tree & fruit you get. If you are seeking material enjoyment then that's what you get and so be prepared for the consequences of loosing it one day also, it is that simple. If you are seeking bliss, you will attain bliss whether you have material prosperity or not doesn't matter! Orange seed will grow as the orange tree only, can't expect mango on them. If material pleasure is in your heart, don't expect God to be there. No, you can not ride on two chariots at the same time, so choose which one and Lord being your charioteer will lead you to your destination! Material pleasure, even though nothing is wrong with them, become hurdle in spiritual progress as you have to climb down from the material chariot to climb up to spiritual chariot and vise versa. The one who dispels your doubts is your Guru. If you are truly longing for a Guru, He/She will come to you - Lord has to respond, no doubt about it and when HE responds, you will know about it too. There is no harm in testing your Guru - you might as well because Guru is going to test you too. Always always know that the ultimate Guru is within you. The Guru in human form will help you understand your own self. The capable Guru might create certain situations and throw you in it for you to understand certain subtle aspects of you. The physical Guru is again a medium for you to enhance your understanding of your true self, and just like a ripen mango falls off from the tree automatically, your attachment to your physical Guru might be dropped off too at the right time. Most of the time, the path becomes easier if you have a Guru only because His understanding and experiences are available to you to leverage but if you think you are doing fine without a physical Guru then move on. Don't condemn a householder Guru only because you fear he/she will treat you as a source of income. If you truly think that a householder is your Guru, don't limit yourself as just the receiver of his grace all the time (in other words, it's called being greedy and selfish), have a broader view - giving makes you even humbler. After parents debt, Guru's debt is the one that you can never repay no matter how much material wealth you pile up in front of your Guru!!! So test the Guru, whether a householder or a sanyasin. Distinguishing man and woman is our limited sight, in God's eyes all are same and equally qualified to attain their highest. In past, the rushipatnies (wives of saints and sages) had their husbands as their spiritual Gurus as they were highly evolved themselves to qualify as Guru. We also have cases where women were more evolved but they chose not to play the role of Guru rather help their husbands (rushies) run their gurukulam. We have cases where men had chosen someone as their wives because the women were highly evolved to beat the counter male in spiritual debates. So in no circumstances underestimate women, like I said before, it would be our limited view on God's creation if we are to distinguish like this. In a class of 100, a teacher delivers his lesson, but if you ask all those 100 students what they have understood, you will get different explanations based on their maturity, understanding, inclination and that is allowed, reflected or presented in Hinduism. It is so flexible and inclusive of all kinds of gods like plants, animals, mountains, rivers, human in the form of Guru and your own self just to convey the all pervasive aspect of God. Just like the students in a class of 100 don't get the message same way, all people in this universe don't understand the God same way. Shri Bhagwan in Gita also conveyed this message saying that HE responds to everyone according to their shraddha. So instead of confusing over what someone is saying or feeling frustrated about it, know that some discussion might enhance ones understanding and some might not. Even if we take our own example, when we heard the story of Krishna first time in our childhood, what we had understood then, we have enhanced it much more by now. Even what we thought what spirituality is few months back, we might have different opinion about it today, isn't it? So we mature or evolve - slowly and gradually - a step at a time. So we must have lot of patience and not to expect everyone to understand exactly the same way as we do - everything in God's creation is unique, thus having unique way of grasping Him. Mathematics might be a play for one but not for all, understanding spirituality is just the same way! Have Guru's grace on all of us. Always at Thy Divine Feet On Behalf Of Mamta Kaura Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:06 PM FW: Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai Shree Hari Ram Ram > I recently heard a Hindu Spiritual Leader on TV Asia, whose general theme was - It is Ok to go ahead and enjoy Wealth and Glamour(Shree)... But do not forget Hari(God). After all Dwarka was made of gold too. I am often confused with the contradictions amongst various hindu spiritual masters. So utterly conflicting are the various messages from various spritual speakers. Living in the West, I feel torn and do not know whether it is possible to live as Swami Ramsukhdasji suggests - " Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai. " (i.e. No enjoyment of pleasures and accumulation of wealth and other things) and at the same time do not>know if " Shree " is OK to go ahead and enjoy? 1) What is the right thing to do based on the Gita ? 2) How to know, who is the right Guru (that can be trusted / believed)? What are the qualities? 3) What does Gita say about Guru or Spiritual Master? 4) Is there a need for a Guru? What if none appear to make the mark of an ideal Guru in your judgement ? 5) Should women have a spiritual master? I seek advice, kindly, Mamta Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Personally I do not feel there is any harm in having material possessions. You can find numerous such instances in our history involving our Gods. However there are two important issues that should not be forgotten - 1. While making efforts for material possessions, we should not leave such mantras as modesty and humility. Even Lord Krishna willingly agreed to take up the offer of Arjuna as being his charioteer, and Lord Rama smilingly took the half-eaten grapes offered by Mata Shabri. We should not allow our egos to inflate just because we have acquired material possessions. Gaining control of our ego is an important learning offered by Shri Bhagwad Gita. 2. The material wealth so acquired should not be at the cost of harming other living beings. Instead the wealth should be used for the purpose of 'Dhan' and thus helping the 'have-nots'. This has also been propounded in various instances in Shri Bhagwad Gita. Regards Bhupinder Grewal Medical Solutions SIEMENS LTD. Tel : +91 22 24987397 Fax : +91 22 24987362 It's in my blood - 'B' positive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Divine One: The first question is to be asked why " Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai " ? The answer is to get " mukti " or freedom or salvation. Then the question is freedom from what? The answer is freedom from unhappiness of any sort. Then the question is are we not trying every moment consciously through all our material means to get rid of unhappiness coming from all sources? The answer is " yes " . Not only that, but also we are planning through investment of current acquired possessions to get rid of speculated not-yet-happened unhappiness. Has any one become successful in getting rid of unhappiness for ever by the run-of-the-mill kind of activities like acquisition power, pelf, position etc. The answer is " No " . It may give temporary relief from the problem. Then is there a solution of removing unhappiness for ever? The answer is " yes " . And endeavor to find the ways for that and working on it is called spiritual journey. Now what is wrong with going after enjoying and hoarding to get rid of present and future unhappiness? Answer is those " means " of getting rid of unhappiness is transitory or impermanent. Then the next question is " why so? " The answer is the objects of hoarding and enjoyment are not themselves permanent. They are constantly changing. How we can expect permanence from impermanent? Then what is the solution? The solution is the knowledge of what is permanent and what is impermanent, action to strive for permanent yet not being affected by the flow of impermanent. Attachment to impermanent is the problem. Every object has its unique property. Fire burns, water flows from upstream to down etc. Similary money, power, status and other materal objects, emotions etc. have their unique properties. Essence of these properties are attraction and creation of desire to possess them for ever. That makes the source of all unhappiness. It is simply impossible to maintain humility, purity and noble qualities consistently all the time when one has thirst for wealth and power. Even giving charity, helping people in need etc. cannot give one happiness for ever without the discriminatory knowledge between Real and Unreal laced with the practice of Detachment or vairAgya. The reason is the ego. For example the great giver like Karna and Bali (VAmana avatAra pushed him to pAtAla) had tremendous ego which paved their path for destruction. Our purAnic stories tell us how the demons did a lot of penance yet when the time came for reward they asked for material power, pelf, position etc. In the end it gave rise to ego and destroyed them ultimately. By practice of detachment with discrimination between Real and Unreal, the attraction for worldly things fail. Why so? It is inherent in every being to go for the better no matter what. When one " discovers " something better than worldly possessions, one goes for it. For that discovery it needs practice of detachment. And when that happens a person discovers one's Self and lives in the world just like a lotus leaf lives in water without being touched by wordliness, ever with bliss. Thank you! humble regards -m > " Grewal, Bhupinder Singh IN BOM SL " <bhupinder.grewal > > >RE: FW: Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai >Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:15:21 +0530 > >Personally I do not feel there is any harm in having material possessions. >You can find numerous such instances in our history involving our Gods. >However there are two important issues that should not be forgotten - > >1. While making efforts for material possessions, we should not leave such >mantras as modesty and humility. Even Lord Krishna willingly agreed to take >up the offer of Arjuna as being his charioteer, and Lord Rama smilingly >took the half-eaten grapes offered by Mata Shabri. We should not allow our >egos to inflate just because we have acquired material possessions. Gaining >control of our ego is an important learning offered by Shri Bhagwad Gita. >2. The material wealth so acquired should not be at the cost of harming >other living beings. Instead the wealth should be used for the purpose of >'Dhan' and thus helping the 'have-nots'. This has also been propounded in >various instances in Shri Bhagwad Gita. > > >Regards >Bhupinder Grewal >Medical Solutions >SIEMENS LTD. >Tel : +91 22 24987397 >Fax : +91 22 24987362 > >It's in my blood - 'B' positive > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Dear Friend, Kama Arth Dharma Moksha are to be taken together. Fulfillment of desires, accumulation of wealth are all to be done but in a detached manner and in conformity with the tenets of the laws of Dharma (defined as obedience to the unenforceable). One should use acquired wealth as a trustee for the betterment of others. I think this is my interpretation of the Gita. Regarding Guru see below a reflection on my views. Sincerely, Dr. Vispi Jokhi vhjokhi GURU All of us are made in the image of God and pervaded by Him, yet in our daily existence we identify with our name, form and personality as perceived by our senses. The hypnotic spell of the sense objects lull us into a sense of well being and happiness. Very soon we realize that these joys are finite and are almost always followed by sorrows. It is when we face suffering that we suddenly feel the need to seek the help of a power outside us. At such times according to our religious traditions we go to the temples and do the rituals and try to bribe the Gods to fulfill our earthly desires of material objects and gratify our lust for sensual pleasures. We are caught up in the belief that pleasures can be isolated from sorrows and we can happy if all our desires are fulfilled. Our education, upbringing and the equation of happiness with pleasures of the physical body and worldly wealth deludes us into pursuing this path with redoubled vigor. The light of knowledge is within us but is covered by the veil of ignorance. Once we realize that the pleasures of the senses that we chase are the cause of our doom we feel the need for the help of a teacher or guide who can lead us from darkness GU to light RU. In the true Indian tradition the word GURU is so profound that teacher or guide are inadequate terms to describe the meaning of the word. While we equate a teacher with a person who gives us knowledge a Guru goes beyond that and shows the practical application of this knowledge and converts jnana to vignyan. This brings me the next set of question – Who is a GURU? How can I recognize Him? Can there be a GURU in absentia or an inspirational figure from the past maybe an avatar or an incarnation of God? Do I need one Guru or many to give me the light of knowledge in the many endeavors I undertake in life? The most complete or holistic GURU is a person who has achieved Self realization and is able to identify him or herself with the permanent universal consciousness at all times. Such a person is defined by the scriptures as Satchitananda i.e. one whose countenance exhibits the eternal radiance of a permanent joy and bliss. Such persons are Seers and are always in a state of equilibrium not agitated by grief or desirous of pleasures. They are always calm and serene and unaffected by the dualities of joy and sorrow, profit and loss or victory and defeat. Such self realized persons are very rare and only my good deeds can lead me to a Guru of this kind and give me the vision to recognize him. In my life a Guru in absentia has been Mahatma Gandhi. The documented life of this great soul and the influence he had on the persons whose life he touched is proof of him being a GURU in his life time. To many of us unfortunate to have not been alive in his era his writings and deeds have been a source of inspiration for many and will continue to inspire future generations. There are many who are convinced that in this violent world we need the serene leadership of Mahatma Gandhi. To answer the last question of multiple Gurus we just need to realize that there is a God within each of us and the light of knowledge is waiting to be uncovered by removing the veil of ignorance. If I am willing to empty myself and remove my selfish desires and reduce my ego to " zero " or " shunya " then all of God's creation living or non-living can be my GURU. Do we not see in our day to day life numerous such examples? There are innumerable such examples and occasions where we can learn from others and make them our Gurus. From the ants learn the gospel of hard work, the elephants the lesson of gentleness, from children unconditional love, from nature the ability to give selflessly treasures from its bosom. My true and dear family and friends who bear with my ego and arrogance and yet love me unconditionally are all my GURUS. What should be the relationship between a Guru and his disciple? An automatic feeling of deep respect for the Guru is translated into an intense desire by the disciple to acquire knowledge from the Guru. This does not mean unquestioning acceptance of all that the Guru says, but learning by respectfully arguing and understanding the truth. Even Arjuna in the Gita questioned Krishna on many occasions. A true Guru on the other hand does not hold back His knowledge and gives to the student all he can offer. Even as the light is shone and the darkness dispelled the effort to acquire the Knowledge leading to Moksha or salvation has to be made by the disciple. Can Moksha or salvation be achieved without a Guru? I do not know the answer to this question. But I feel that all creatures are made in the image of God and Man is His foremost creation. So any man can discover the God within Him and rise to divine heights. The Lord guides Him on the path and leads him to moksha. Man has mind which responds to the senses and an intellect which gives him the discrimination to make a choice in his response and finally a conscience which gives him the power to choose the right from the wrong. Is a Guru-Shisya relationship one of a commercial transaction in that the teacher gives a product in the form of knowledge which the student consumes? The student pays and the teacher are paid and that is the basis of the relationship. We see this in our institutes of learning based on the Western model. This is an inevitable consequence of the capitalist model based on materialism. In conclusion, I would like to invite all who read my humble thoughts to add to them and to become my Guru. Vispi Jokhi , " Mamta Kaura " <mamtakaura wrote: > > Shree Hari > > Ram Ram > > > I recently heard a Hindu Spiritual Leader on TV Asia, whose general > theme was - It is Ok to go ahead and enjoy Wealth and Glamour (Shree)...But do not forget Hari(God). After all Dwarka was made of gold too. > > I am often confused with the contradictions amongst various hindu > spiritual masters. So utterly conflicting are the various messages from various spritual speakers. Living in the West, I feel torn and do not know whether it is possible to live as Swami Ramsukhdasji suggests - " Bhog aur Sangraha nahi karnaa hai. " (i.e. No enjoyment of pleasures and accumulation of wealth and other things) and at the same time do not know if " Shree " is OK to go ahead and enjoy? > > 1) What is the right thing to do based on the Gita ? > 2) How to know, who is the right Guru (that can be trusted / believed)? What are the qualities? > 3) What does Gita say about Guru or Spiritual Master? > 4) Is there a need for a Guru? What if none appear to make the mark of an ideal Guru in your judgement ? > 5) Should women have a spiritual master? > > I seek advice, kindly, Mamta > Ram Ram > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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