Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Om Shanti. I have been reading the correspondence from you and the Readers. Some of the messages are esoteric and difficult to relate to in terms of practical every day life. We all have to earn a living and provide for material things for the family. Basic survival things like housing, food , resources for education, etc. There is an enormous satisfaction in achieving goals such as financial, career, etc. We can not just renounce the world of materialism and give up all things and become totally detached. And for what? To become totally passive. That brings me to ask the basic question - HOW DO YOU DEFINE GOD ? Not his attributes but the basic definition. Is God embodiment of all that we do not know? Historically, that is the definition. From the old times, if we did not understand Fire or lightning etc., we lumped that phenomenon as God of Fire, etc.. And why is it important to relate to God in everyday life. I can be just as happy or happier without recognition of God. I thought that was the goal in life - to be happy and make others happy with your behavior. We did not come in to Life with our own will but by the action of others. So you try to make the best of it. Thank you. Suresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Loving Divine, Pranam. Neither Lord in Gitaji nor Swamiji Maharaj nor any other saints and sages have ever requested any family man/woman to leave their family, not to earn and provide material things to survive or do their duties...!!! We interpret it this way only because we are very much situated in or attached to the matter, World, Prakriti, or in that which is always moving. Please read and digest Chapter 3 of Gitaji. No one can ever remain without action - physical or mental (3:4) - breathing is also an action. Lord Himself is guiding Arjun to do his duty and fight. So our misunderstanding lies in our ignorance only! Our ego and play of our mind (Maya) create such ignorance due to which we remain far away from God. Even Lord said in Gitaji, 'manushyanaam sahastreshu...(7:3)' that only rare one attains ME and it is all due to this ignorance. Let's cross our ego - 'ahamtaa' and focus on who is behind this 'I' or allowing us to say 'I am..' / 'me...' / 'my..' or 'mine...' We say these things like - this is my house or my wife or my family. We also say my mind is tired or my intellect is not working or my memory is blocked or my ego came in between. We also say things like 'why me?' or 'I tried everything but the result is adverse and unexpected' or 'I don't know what caused it?' So these 3 sets of questions or sentences focus on gross, astral or causal aspect of us - so for most of us this 'I' is strongly associated with these 3 aspects of our life (Prakriti, ego, mind, intelluct & memory, & ignorance) but there is another 'I' - 'The Self' that is within & outside us and is beyond these 3 aspects and Swamiji Maharaj or other siants and sages point us towards IT when they talk about 'vairaagya'. When we are situated in that higher 'I' or 'The Self', we know that ALL is DONE by IT and not by usual 'I, me, my, or mine...' Being aware of the actual DOER of our actions brings detachment to it - job is done, money is earned, family is taken care of, all required duties are performed but not by the usual 'I/me/my/mine...' rather this superior Self who leads (makes it possible) us to do it all and thus detachment or egolessness develops. So if you read those 3 sets of questions or comments again and ask yourself 'WHO is it behind this 'I' that knows about all activities of this lower 'I'; who is that Shaakshi; you might be able to see the point that Swamiji Maharaj is making. You may agree to call IT as The God like most of us or give IT a name that suits your temprament, it doesn't matter!!! :-) Without breath where is this so called 'I/me or mine...? Who is breathing within you? Who is keeping you alive? In past we had some good discussion to understand this lower 'I' and higher 'Self' so would like to point you to few of the examples listed in those emails that have been archieved at /. Please read responses # 99, 101, 110, 116, 125, 127, 136, 139, 142, 145, 152, 164, 166, & 168 (I don't know exactly which email will fit the best - they all have something to help enhance our understanding). The areas of Prakriti that we human beings are able to know and define, we use some name to identify those forms and to show superiority of that aspect we have been calling them God - we have no control over it and you know..., surprisingly enough nothing falls beyond earth (mater), water, fire (light), air, & vacuum (our body is made up of these 5 elements and so is the rest of material creation) + antahkaran (ego, memory, mind & intellect) so whatever that is beyond these elements our Saints and Sages have been calling IT God / Brahman / Self. Historically, they all knew this aspect of us called 'The God - one & only one, all pervading, all knowing, deathless, birthless, still, bliss, live (Chetan), detached, perfect, etc.' So called god/lord of earth, water, fire, air, space/vacuum, mind, ego, intellect, etc. are categorized into demi gods (prayers to them also reach The God). 'The God' is beyond everything and that's what we are discussing here - keeping teachings of Gitaji/Lord Krishna as our medium. Swamiji Maharaj has been a great help in understanding and interpreting Gitaji for us and how to realize The God or Self. No one is born simply by the act of others, we are brought on this earth ONLY because of OUR OWN action (karma)!!! Based on our karma we were attracted to our mother's womb. Because of her karma she was able to sustain us! So due to our mutual karma, we are born in the family we are born with the siblings and relatives we have!!! So if we have attitude to blame others for our existence, please let us correct it first. We are put in a right place, right time, amongst right people every moment so that we evolve. Hope this helps... Love always... At Thy Divine Feet On 7/1/06, jvardya <jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. I have been reading the correspondence from you and the Readers. Some of the messages are esoteric and difficult to relate to in terms of practical every day life. We all have to earn a living and provide for material things for the family. Basic survival things like housing, food , resources for education, etc. There is an enormous satisfaction in achieving goals such as financial, career, etc. We can not just renounce the world of materialism and give up all things and become totally detached. And for what? To become totally passive. That brings me to ask the basic question - HOW DO YOU DEFINE GOD ? Not his attributes but the basic definition. Is God embodiment of all that we do not know? Historically, that is the definition. From the old times, if we did not understand Fire or lightning etc., we lumped that phenomenon as God of Fire, etc.. And why is it important to relate to God in everyday life. I can be just as happy or happier without recognition of God. I thought that was the goal in life - to be happy and make others happy with your behavior. We did not come in to Life with our own will but by the action of others. So you try to make the best of it. Thank you. Suresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Om Shanti. 1. It is very easy and convenient to say that what we are experiencing today is the result of past "Karma" . How, why ? Just because a Swamiji / book says so does not make it so. As far as I can see there is no link to the past. None has been established. All a conjecture. Past Karma then becomes an easy, catch all, explanation for whatever is happening to a person. Just an "escapism". 2. Let us think about some of the other faiths in the world. According to Quran, once a person dies, his soul does not come back to earth. No recycling of souls. Who is right? Certainly, the treatment of Souls after death would be the same for Hindus as well as Muslims, I would think. Even Christians do not believe in recycling of souls. Hence, no carrying forward of Karma to the next life. 3. The decisions you make today certainly affects the outcome - short term. Within this life span and is measurable/record-able. Your physical/mental capabilities certainly determine how successful, (needs definition?), you are in life and how much capacity you have for happiness. 4. Gita is wonderful if you start in that faith. So is Quran. Both have a common denominator - a person is born into that particular faith. Have you evaluated the other faiths and then decided which is the best. There are contradictions between Gita, Quran and Bible. For instance, Quran says 'it is the duty of a Muslim to kill the infidels'. When this Muslim person dies, he goes to a special place (heaven) with Allah. Which one is right? Remember, there are a lot more Muslims than Hindus. 5. Intellectually, it helps if you concentrate on action (or Karma - prudent and fair) and not worry about the outcome, which is beyond your control anyway. A very practical approach to life. But when you loose the "I", you would also loose people like Mittal Steel, Infosys, etc. They are the risk takers and they are trying to satisfy their ego or "I". A very important part of the community for economic prosperity. Om Shanti. -------------- Original message from "Manjula Patel" <manjumaa: -------------- Loving Divine, Pranam. Neither Lord in Gitaji nor Swamiji Maharaj nor any other saints and sages have ever requested any family man/woman to leave their family, not to earn and provide material things to survive or do their duties...!!! We interpret it this way only because we are very much situated in or attached to the matter, World, Prakriti, or in that which is always moving. Please read and digest Chapter 3 of Gitaji. No one can ever remain without action - physical or mental (3:4) - breathing is also an action. Lord Himself is guiding Arjun to do his duty and fight. So our misunderstanding lies in our ignorance only! Our ego and play of our mind (Maya) create such ignorance due to which we remain far away from God. Even Lord said in Gitaji, 'manushyanaam sahastreshu...(7:3)' that only rare one attains ME and it is all due to this ignorance. Let's cross our ego - 'ahamtaa' and focus on who is behind this 'I' or allowing us to say 'I am..' / 'me...' / 'my..' or 'mine...' We say these things like - this is my house or my wife or my family. We also say my mind is tired or my intellect is not working or my memory is blocked or my ego came in between. We also say things like 'why me?' or 'I tried everything but the result is adverse and unexpected' or 'I don't know what caused it?' So these 3 sets of questions or sentences focus on gross, astral or causal aspect of us - so for most of us this 'I' is strongly associated with these 3 aspects of our life (Prakriti, ego, mind, intelluct & memory, & ignorance) but there is another 'I' - 'The Self' that is within & outside us and is beyond these 3 aspects and Swamiji Maharaj or other siants and sages point us towards IT when they talk about 'vairaagya'. When we are situated in that higher 'I' or 'The Self', we know that ALL is DONE by IT and not by usual 'I, me, my, or mine...' Being aware of the actual DOER of our actions brings detachment t o it - job is done, money is earned, family is taken care of, all required duties are performed but not by the usual 'I/me/my/mine...' rather this superior Self who leads (makes it possible) us to do it all and thus detachment or egolessness develops. So if you read those 3 sets of questions or comments again and ask yourself 'WHO is it behind this 'I' that knows about all activities of this lower 'I'; who is that Shaakshi; you might be able to see the point that Swamiji Maharaj is making. You may agree to call IT as The God like most of us or give IT a name that suits your temprament, it doesn't matter!!! :-) Without breath where is this so called 'I/me or mine...? Who is breathing within you? Who is keeping you alive? In past we had some good discussion to understand this lower 'I' and higher 'Self' so would like to point you to few of the examples listed in those emails that have been archieved at /. Please read responses # 99, 101, 110, 116, 125, 127, 136, 139, 142, 145, 152, 164, 166, & 168 (I don't know exactly which email will fit the best - they all have something to help enhance our understanding). The areas of Prakriti that we human beings are able to know and define, we use some name to identify those forms and to show superiority of that aspect we have been calling them God - we have no control over it and you know..., surprisingly enough nothing falls beyond earth (mater), water, fire (light), air, & vacuum (our body is made up of these 5 elements and so is the rest of material creation) + antahkaran (ego, memory, mind & intellect) so whatever that is beyond these elements our Saints and Sages have been calling IT God / Brahman / Self. Historically, they all knew this aspect of us called 'The God - one & only one, all pervading, all knowing, deathless, birthless, still, bliss, live (Chetan), detached, perfect, etc.' So called god/lord of earth, water, fire, air, space/vacuum, mind, ego, intellect, etc. are categorized into demi gods (prayers to them also reach The God). 'The God' is beyond everything and that's what we are discussing here - keeping teachings of Gitaji/Lord Krishna as our medium. Swamiji Maharaj has been a great help in understanding and interpreting Gitaji for us and how to realize The God or Self. No one is born simply by the act of others, we are brought on this earth ONLY because of OUR OWN action (karma)!!! Based on our karma we were attracted to our mother's womb. Because of her karma she was able to sustain us! So due to our mutual karma, we are born in the family we are born with the siblings and relatives we have!!! So if we have attitude to blame others for our existence, please let us correct it first. We are put in a right place, right time, amongst right people every moment so that we evolve. Hope this helps... Love always... At Thy Divine Feet On 7/1/06, jvardya <jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. I have been reading the correspondence from you and the Readers. Some of the messages are esoteric and difficult to relate to in terms of practical every day life. We all have to earn a living and provide for material things for the family. Basic survival things like housing, food , resources for education, etc. There is an enormous satisfaction in achieving goals such as financial, career, etc. We can not just renounce the world of materialism and give up all things and become totally detached. And for what? To become totally passive. That brings me to ask the basic question - HOW DO YOU DEFINE GOD ? Not his attributes but the basic definition. Is God embodiment of all that we do not know? Historically, that is the definition. From the old times, if we did not understand Fire or lightning etc., we lumped that phenomenon as God of Fire, etc.. And why is it important to relate to God in everyday life. I can be just as happy or happier without recognition of God. I thought that was the goal in life - to be happy and make others happy with your behavior. We did not come in to Life with our own will but by the action of others. So you try to make the best of it. Thank you. Suresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 My very own, Pranam. I have tried to answer your questions in your email. I highly recommend reading chapter 4 and digesting it as it answers lot more than just discussed here. Thanks, always in service at Thy Lotus Feet. On 7/3/06, jvardya <jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. 1. It is very easy and convenient to say that what we are experiencing today is the result of past " Karma " . How, why ? Just because a Swamiji / book says so does not make it so. As far as I can see there is no link to the past. None has been established. All a conjecture. Past Karma then becomes an easy, catch all, explanation for whatever is happening to a person. Just an " escapism " . Answer: I always thought (at least for myself) that it has been always easy to point finger at others than accepting or taking responsibilities of my action when something goes wrong and taking all credits if something goes well :-) If that is not true for someone, my humble pranams to that being - he/she is already in the list of being a saint. Lord said in Gitaji (Chapter 4:Slokas 1-5) that you and I have passed through many births, I remember them but you don't... Our saints & sages have been the greatest scientists and they have studied for ages and whatever they discovered have came out as our scriptures. In this very age, we have so many reported incidents of childern recollecting their past lives or those who meditate on a regular basis recall their past lives! Lord also said (18:68), 'idam te naatapaskaaya naabhaktaaya kadaachana...' One can not make anyone understand if the person has no willingness/inclination/desire/openness to understand. 2. Let us think about some of the other faiths in the world. According to Quran, once a person dies, his soul does not come back to earth. No recycling of souls. Who is right? Certainly, the treatment of Souls after death would be the same for Hindus as well as Muslims, I would think. Even Christians do not believe in recycling of souls. Hence, no carrying forward of Karma to the next life. Answer: I have not read The Quran so I can't speak what this Holy Book has to say but they do have concepts of 'jannata' and 'jahannum' - heaven & hell...!!! So...? In The Bible there is a mention of returning back of John the Baptist. There is also no recycling of soul in the Sanaatan Dharma or so called 'Hinduism' as mentioned in Gitaji (4:9-10) - 'janma karma cha me divyam... vitaraagabhayakrodhaa...' 3. The decisions you make today certainly affects the outcome - short term. Within this life span and is measurable/record-able. Your physical/mental capabilities certainly determine how successful, (needs definition?), you are in life and how much capacity you have for happiness. Answer: 'The decisions you make...', just like that the decisions (desires) you made (had) in past lives affect your present life too & they can be short term as well as long term and yes they are also measurable/recordable - possible for those who have been meditating for long and have become knower of their past deeds. One who has reached equanimity is beyond success-failure, happiness-unhappiness/sadness/sorrowfulness - our scriptures have been calling this as living in 'Bliss'. 4. Gita is wonderful if you start in that faith. So is Quran. Both have a common denominator - a person is born into that particular faith. Have you evaluated the other faiths and then decided which is the best. There are contradictions between Gita, Quran and Bible. For instance, Quran says 'it is the duty of a Muslim to kill the infidels'. When this Muslim person dies, he goes to a special place (heaven) with Allah. Which one is right? Remember, there are a lot more Muslims than Hindus. Answer: Yes, faith is all what it takes and sure one can evaluate as many Faiths/Religions as they want and can take whatever they like out of it - both so called 'good' or 'evil', it is up to the individual and God reaches to all (4:11). I only know that all so called 'Faiths' lead to one TRUTH! Any realized saint from any religion will agree to it as they have no attachment to so called 'Faith/Religion'. I have known Muslims and Christians go to their places of worships with full faith in their religion and also have very strong faith in Vedanta so otherway around can be true too - Ramkrishna Paramhamsa followed many Faiths and proved that it all reached to the same conclusion! One can reach at the top of mountain from any side - north/south/east/west/north-east/north-west/etc..., circulating, straight or crooked way, slowly walking or running (according to their temprament and capacity) but eventually all will reach the Top - The Highest. There are stumbling blocks, hurdels, resistance and one may fall down and start all over again. My Baba says that all religions of the world are like petals of a flower and if you pluck any of these petals, the flower looses its beauty! So each and every Faith has its beauty, one needs clean eye to see it. 5. Intellectually, it helps if you concentrate on action (or Karma - prudent and fair) and not worry about the outcome, which is beyond your control anyway. A very practical approach to life. But when you loose the " I " , you would also loose people like Mittal Steel, Infosys, etc. They are the risk takers and they are trying to satisfy their ego or " I " . A very important part of the community for economic prosperity. In Sanatan Dharma / Hindu scriptures are full of examples where entereprenures had contributed in community for economic prosperity and have been detached - they were kings, ministers, teachers, businessmen, sweepers, farmers, etc. (4:13-15) - they all have given their fair shares for the community growth and they were far far away from 'I'. If one has desire to remain attached to certain people, they have not left 'I' even though they think they have. The so called big/famous/prosperous people with name-fame associated with them will go to this pure hearted person who has left 'I' not the otherway around!!! When Alexander attacked India he wanted to take a True Saint with him but failed...! To believe something either we have to trust other's words (our saints/sages/scriptures/guru) who have rediscovered themselves or if we don't trust them then we should have courage to experiment ourselves following the exact steps/methods recommended by them and come to a conclusion. Yoga (karma, gyaan, bhakti, whatever...) & meditations are not someones imaginary creation. It has been practiced for ages and same conclusion has been reached by all that there is One & ONLY One Truth exist! No intelligence is needed in performing experiment as someone has already figured it out - just like H2O, i.e., when 2 proportion of hydrogen is mixed with oxygen, it produces water - now dummy or intelligent one performs this experiment they both would end up concluding the same!!!!! It is up to us to put the teachings of our Rishis in practice with the right kind of understanding. humble regards. Om Shanti. -------------- Original message from " Manjula Patel " < manjumaa: -------------- Loving Divine, Pranam. Neither Lord in Gitaji nor Swamiji Maharaj nor any other saints and sages have ever requested any family man/woman to leave their family, not to earn and provide material things to survive or do their duties...!!! We interpret it this way only because we are very much situated in or attached to the matter, World, Prakriti, or in that which is always moving. Please read and digest Chapter 3 of Gitaji. No one can ever remain without action - physical or mental (3:4) - breathing is also an action. Lord Himself is guiding Arjun to do his duty and fight. So our misunderstanding lies in our ignorance only! Our ego and play of our mind (Maya) create such ignorance due to which we remain far away from God. Even Lord said in Gitaji, 'manushyanaam sahastreshu...(7:3)' that only rare one attains ME and it is all due to this ignorance. Let's cross our ego - 'ahamtaa' and focus on who is behind this 'I' or allowing us to say 'I am..' / 'me...' / 'my..' or 'mine...' We say these things like - this is my house or my wife or my family. We also say my mind is tired or my intellect is not working or my memory is blocked or my ego came in between. We also say things like 'why me?' or 'I tried everything but the result is adverse and unexpected' or 'I don't know what caused it?' So these 3 sets of questions or sentences focus on gross, astral or causal aspect of us - so for most of us this 'I' is strongly associated with these 3 aspects of our life (Prakriti, ego, mind, intelluct & memory, & ignorance) but there is another 'I' - 'The Self' that is within & outside us and is beyond these 3 aspects and Swamiji Maharaj or other siants and sages point us towards IT when they talk about 'vairaagya'. When we are situated in that higher 'I' or 'The Self', we know that ALL is DONE by IT and not by usual 'I, me, my, or mine...' Being aware of the actual DOER of our actions brings detachment t o it - job is done, money is earned, family is taken care of, all required duties are performed but not by the usual 'I/me/my/mine...' rather this superior Self who leads (makes it possible) us to do it all and thus detachment or egolessness develops. So if you read those 3 sets of questions or comments again and ask yourself 'WHO is it behind this 'I' that knows about all activities of this lower 'I'; who is that Shaakshi; you might be able to see the point that Swamiji Maharaj is making. You may agree to call IT as The God like most of us or give IT a name that suits your temprament, it doesn't matter!!! :-) Without breath where is this so called 'I/me or mine...? Who is breathing within you? Who is keeping you alive? In past we had some good discussion to understand this lower 'I' and higher 'Self' so would like to point you to few of the examples listed in those emails that have been archieved at /. Please read responses # 99, 101, 110, 116, 125, 127, 136, 139, 142, 145, 152, 164, 166, & 168 (I don't know exactly which email will fit the best - they all have something to help enhance our understanding). The areas of Prakriti that we human beings are able to know and define, we use some name to identify those forms and to show superiority of that aspect we have been calling them God - we have no control over it and you know..., surprisingly enough nothing falls beyond earth (mater), water, fire (light), air, & vacuum (our body is made up of these 5 elements and so is the rest of material creation) + antahkaran (ego, memory, mind & intellect) so whatever that is beyond these elements our Saints and Sages have been calling IT God / Brahman / Self. Historically, they all knew this aspect of us called 'The God - one & only one, all pervading, all knowing, deathless, birthless, still, bliss, live (Chetan), detached, perfect, etc.' So called god/lord of earth, water, fire, air, space/vacuum, mind, ego, intellect, etc. are categorized into demi gods (prayers to them also reach The God). 'The God' is beyond everything and that's what we are discussing here - keeping teachings of Gitaji/Lord Krishna as our medium. Swamiji Maharaj has been a great help in understanding and interpreting Gitaji for us and how to realize The God or Self. No one is born simply by the act of others, we are brought on this earth ONLY because of OUR OWN action (karma)!!! Based on our karma we were attracted to our mother's womb. Because of her karma she was able to sustain us! So due to our mutual karma, we are born in the family we are born with the siblings and relatives we have!!! So if we have attitude to blame others for our existence, please let us correct it first. We are put in a right place, right time, amongst right people every moment so that we evolve. Hope this helps... Love always... At Thy Divine Feet On 7/1/06, jvardya < jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. I have been reading the correspondence from you and the Readers. Some of the messages are esoteric and difficult to relate to in terms of practical every day life. We all have to earn a living and provide for material things for the family. Basic survival things like housing, food , resources for education, etc. There is an enormous satisfaction in achieving goals such as financial, career, etc. We can not just renounce the world of materialism and give up all things and become totally detached. And for what? To become totally passive. That brings me to ask the basic question - HOW DO YOU DEFINE GOD ? Not his attributes but the basic definition. Is God embodiment of all that we do not know? Historically, that is the definition. From the old times, if we did not understand Fire or lightning etc., we lumped that phenomenon as God of Fire, etc.. And why is it important to relate to God in everyday life. I can be just as happy or happier without recognition of God. I thought that was the goal in life - to be happy and make others happy with your behavior. We did not come in to Life with our own will but by the action of others. So you try to make the best of it. Thank you. Suresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Dear Suresh Who is asking you to give up all things and go to Himalayas. This life is "Run Bhoomi" and we have to discharge our duties gracefully. If you think there is enormous satisfcation in materialistic acievements then what all the animals are doing? They are also arranging food, shelter and security for themselves and their kids , like we are doing. Three basic things Nidra(sleep), Ahar(food) and maithun ( Sex) are common between ther mankinf and the animal beings. How do you differentiate man kind from animal beings. The animal life is "bhog Yoni" and the man life is "Yog Yoni" where you can attain the heights of sprituality and attain the "Paramanandam" ( the ultimate pleasure). The pleasure you are talking about is not the "anandam" because millions of people have attained achievements in their life in terms of proposperity, educational degrees but are they happy. They want more and more and more and one day they die miserably. Agar aise anand milta hota to ab tak mil hee gaya hota. Now please do not confuse the word Anandam with namaz or pooja or prayers, roza and upwas. These have been devised to keep people fit and to maintain law and order in the society. One has to adopt spritual way of life. Meditation or Dhyan is the only way out which no faith talks about. If possible move towards this aspect and then you will know what the real Anand is and laugh at youself later thinking about your achievements in education and propserity. Naresh - jvardya Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:26 PM God - definition Om Shanti. I have been reading the correspondence from you and the Readers. Some of the messages are esoteric and difficult to relate to in terms of practical every day life. We all have to earn a living and provide for material things for the family. Basic survival things like housing, food , resources for education, etc. There is an enormous satisfaction in achieving goals such as financial, career, etc. We can not just renounce the world of materialism and give up all things and become totally detached. And for what? To become totally passive. That brings me to ask the basic question - HOW DO YOU DEFINE GOD ? Not his attributes but the basic definition. Is God embodiment of all that we do not know? Historically, that is the definition. From the old times, if we did not understand Fire or lightning etc., we lumped that phenomenon as God of Fire, etc.. And why is it important to relate to God in everyday life. I can be just as happy or happier without recognition of God. I thought that was the goal in life - to be happy and make others happy with your behavior. We did not come in to Life with our own will but by the action of others. So you try to make the best of it. Thank you. Suresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Dear Friend, Love and best wishes to you. It has become a fashion now-a-days to call it trash of what all has been written in our great scriptures and said by great saints of yore. It is sad that you have no respect either for our saints or for their words of wisdom. If you do not want to follow them, you are most welcome to do so and Manjula Behan has taken great pains to explain in detail. If one wants to be adamant and stubborn and does not want to listen or follow the path shown by our great masters, what anybody can do? I wish you all the best and May God (you may not believe in the concept of God) bless you. Love and best wishes P. Gopi Krishna On 7/4/06, Manjula Patel <manjumaa wrote: My very own, Pranam. I have tried to answer your questions in your email. I highly recommend reading chapter 4 and digesting it as it answers lot more than just discussed here. Thanks, always in service at Thy Lotus Feet. On 7/3/06, jvardya < jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. 1. It is very easy and convenient to say that what we are experiencing today is the result of past " Karma " . How, why ? Just because a Swamiji / book says so does not make it so. As far as I can see there is no link to the past. None has been established. All a conjecture. Past Karma then becomes an easy, catch all, explanation for whatever is happening to a person. Just an " escapism " . Answer: I always thought (at least for myself) that it has been always easy to point finger at others than accepting or taking responsibilities of my action when something goes wrong and taking all credits if something goes well :-) If that is not true for someone, my humble pranams to that being - he/she is already in the list of being a saint. Lord said in Gitaji (Chapter 4:Slokas 1-5) that you and I have passed through many births, I remember them but you don't... Our saints & sages have been the greatest scientists and they have studied for ages and whatever they discovered have came out as our scriptures. In this very age, we have so many reported incidents of childern recollecting their past lives or those who meditate on a regular basis recall their past lives! Lord also said (18:68), 'idam te naatapaskaaya naabhaktaaya kadaachana...' One can not make anyone understand if the person has no willingness/inclination/desire/openness to understand. 2. Let us think about some of the other faiths in the world. According to Quran, once a person dies, his soul does not come back to earth. No recycling of souls. Who is right? Certainly, the treatment of Souls after death would be the same for Hindus as well as Muslims, I would think. Even Christians do not believe in recycling of souls. Hence, no carrying forward of Karma to the next life. Answer: I have not read The Quran so I can't speak what this Holy Book has to say but they do have concepts of 'jannata' and 'jahannum' - heaven & hell...!!! So...? In The Bible there is a mention of returning back of John the Baptist. There is also no recycling of soul in the Sanaatan Dharma or so called 'Hinduism' as mentioned in Gitaji (4:9-10) - 'janma karma cha me divyam... vitaraagabhayakrodhaa...' 3. The decisions you make today certainly affects the outcome - short term. Within this life span and is measurable/record-able. Your physical/mental capabilities certainly determine how successful, (needs definition?), you are in life and how much capacity you have for happiness. Answer: 'The decisions you make...', just like that the decisions (desires) you made (had) in past lives affect your present life too & they can be short term as well as long term and yes they are also measurable/recordable - possible for those who have been meditating for long and have become knower of their past deeds. One who has reached equanimity is beyond success-failure, happiness-unhappiness/sadness/sorrowfulness - our scriptures have been calling this as living in 'Bliss'. 4. Gita is wonderful if you start in that faith. So is Quran. Both have a common denominator - a person is born into that particular faith. Have you evaluated the other faiths and then decided which is the best. There are contradictions between Gita, Quran and Bible. For instance, Quran says 'it is the duty of a Muslim to kill the infidels'. When this Muslim person dies, he goes to a special place (heaven) with Allah. Which one is right? Remember, there are a lot more Muslims than Hindus. Answer: Yes, faith is all what it takes and sure one can evaluate as many Faiths/Religions as they want and can take whatever they like out of it - both so called 'good' or 'evil', it is up to the individual and God reaches to all (4:11). I only know that all so called 'Faiths' lead to one TRUTH! Any realized saint from any religion will agree to it as they have no attachment to so called 'Faith/Religion'. I have known Muslims and Christians go to their places of worships with full faith in their religion and also have very strong faith in Vedanta so otherway around can be true too - Ramkrishna Paramhamsa followed many Faiths and proved that it all reached to the same conclusion! One can reach at the top of mountain from any side - north/south/east/west/north-east/north-west/etc..., circulating, straight or crooked way, slowly walking or running (according to their temprament and capacity) but eventually all will reach the Top - The Highest. There are stumbling blocks, hurdels, resistance and one may fall down and start all over again. My Baba says that all religions of the world are like petals of a flower and if you pluck any of these petals, the flower looses its beauty! So each and every Faith has its beauty, one needs clean eye to see it. 5. Intellectually, it helps if you concentrate on action (or Karma - prudent and fair) and not worry about the outcome, which is beyond your control anyway. A very practical approach to life. But when you loose the " I " , you would also loose people like Mittal Steel, Infosys, etc. They are the risk takers and they are trying to satisfy their ego or " I " . A very important part of the community for economic prosperity. In Sanatan Dharma / Hindu scriptures are full of examples where entereprenures had contributed in community for economic prosperity and have been detached - they were kings, ministers, teachers, businessmen, sweepers, farmers, etc. (4:13-15) - they all have given their fair shares for the community growth and they were far far away from 'I'. If one has desire to remain attached to certain people, they have not left 'I' even though they think they have. The so called big/famous/prosperous people with name-fame associated with them will go to this pure hearted person who has left 'I' not the otherway around!!! When Alexander attacked India he wanted to take a True Saint with him but failed...! To believe something either we have to trust other's words (our saints/sages/scriptures/guru) who have rediscovered themselves or if we don't trust them then we should have courage to experiment ourselves following the exact steps/methods recommended by them and come to a conclusion. Yoga (karma, gyaan, bhakti, whatever...) & meditations are not someones imaginary creation. It has been practiced for ages and same conclusion has been reached by all that there is One & ONLY One Truth exist! No intelligence is needed in performing experiment as someone has already figured it out - just like H2O, i.e., when 2 proportion of hydrogen is mixed with oxygen, it produces water - now dummy or intelligent one performs this experiment they both would end up concluding the same!!!!! It is up to us to put the teachings of our Rishis in practice with the right kind of understanding. humble regards. Om Shanti. -------------- Original message from " Manjula Patel " < manjumaa: -------------- Loving Divine, Pranam. Neither Lord in Gitaji nor Swamiji Maharaj nor any other saints and sages have ever requested any family man/woman to leave their family, not to earn and provide material things to survive or do their duties...!!! We interpret it this way only because we are very much situated in or attached to the matter, World, Prakriti, or in that which is always moving. Please read and digest Chapter 3 of Gitaji. No one can ever remain without action - physical or mental (3:4) - breathing is also an action. Lord Himself is guiding Arjun to do his duty and fight. So our misunderstanding lies in our ignorance only! Our ego and play of our mind (Maya) create such ignorance due to which we remain far away from God. Even Lord said in Gitaji, 'manushyanaam sahastreshu...(7:3)' that only rare one attains ME and it is all due to this ignorance. Let's cross our ego - 'ahamtaa' and focus on who is behind this 'I' or allowing us to say 'I am..' / 'me...' / 'my..' or 'mine...' We say these things like - this is my house or my wife or my family. We also say my mind is tired or my intellect is not working or my memory is blocked or my ego came in between. We also say things like 'why me?' or 'I tried everything but the result is adverse and unexpected' or 'I don't know what caused it?' So these 3 sets of questions or sentences focus on gross, astral or causal aspect of us - so for most of us this 'I' is strongly associated with these 3 aspects of our life (Prakriti, ego, mind, intelluct & memory, & ignorance) but there is another 'I' - 'The Self' that is within & outside us and is beyond these 3 aspects and Swamiji Maharaj or other siants and sages point us towards IT when they talk about 'vairaagya'. When we are situated in that higher 'I' or 'The Self', we know that ALL is DONE by IT and not by usual 'I, me, my, or mine...' Being aware of the actual DOER of our actions brings detachment t o it - job is done, money is earned, family is taken care of, all required duties are performed but not by the usual 'I/me/my/mine...' rather this superior Self who leads (makes it possible) us to do it all and thus detachment or egolessness develops. So if you read those 3 sets of questions or comments again and ask yourself 'WHO is it behind this 'I' that knows about all activities of this lower 'I'; who is that Shaakshi; you might be able to see the point that Swamiji Maharaj is making. You may agree to call IT as The God like most of us or give IT a name that suits your temprament, it doesn't matter!!! :-) Without breath where is this so called 'I/me or mine...? Who is breathing within you? Who is keeping you alive? In past we had some good discussion to understand this lower 'I' and higher 'Self' so would like to point you to few of the examples listed in those emails that have been archieved at /. Please read responses # 99, 101, 110, 116, 125, 127, 136, 139, 142, 145, 152, 164, 166, & 168 (I don't know exactly which email will fit the best - they all have something to help enhance our understanding). The areas of Prakriti that we human beings are able to know and define, we use some name to identify those forms and to show superiority of that aspect we have been calling them God - we have no control over it and you know..., surprisingly enough nothing falls beyond earth (mater), water, fire (light), air, & vacuum (our body is made up of these 5 elements and so is the rest of material creation) + antahkaran (ego, memory, mind & intellect) so whatever that is beyond these elements our Saints and Sages have been calling IT God / Brahman / Self. Historically, they all knew this aspect of us called 'The God - one & only one, all pervading, all knowing, deathless, birthless, still, bliss, live (Chetan), detached, perfect, etc.' So called god/lord of earth, water, fire, air, space/vacuum, mind, ego, intellect, etc. are categorized into demi gods (prayers to them also reach The God). 'The God' is beyond everything and that's what we are discussing here - keeping teachings of Gitaji/Lord Krishna as our medium. Swamiji Maharaj has been a great help in understanding and interpreting Gitaji for us and how to realize The God or Self. No one is born simply by the act of others, we are brought on this earth ONLY because of OUR OWN action (karma)!!! Based on our karma we were attracted to our mother's womb. Because of her karma she was able to sustain us! So due to our mutual karma, we are born in the family we are born with the siblings and relatives we have!!! So if we have attitude to blame others for our existence, please let us correct it first. We are put in a right place, right time, amongst right people every moment so that we evolve. Hope this helps... Love always... At Thy Divine Feet On 7/1/06, jvardya < jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. I have been reading the correspondence from you and the Readers. Some of the messages are esoteric and difficult to relate to in terms of practical every day life. We all have to earn a living and provide for material things for the family. Basic survival things like housing, food , resources for education, etc. There is an enormous satisfaction in achieving goals such as financial, career, etc. We can not just renounce the world of materialism and give up all things and become totally detached. And for what? To become totally passive. That brings me to ask the basic question - HOW DO YOU DEFINE GOD ? Not his attributes but the basic definition. Is God embodiment of all that we do not know? Historically, that is the definition. From the old times, if we did not understand Fire or lightning etc., we lumped that phenomenon as God of Fire, etc.. And why is it important to relate to God in everyday life. I can be just as happy or happier without recognition of God. I thought that was the goal in life - to be happy and make others happy with your behavior. We did not come in to Life with our own will but by the action of others. So you try to make the best of it. Thank you. Suresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Om Shanti I want to thank you and appreciate your reply. This will be my last communication on this subject. I and you are discussing this subject on two different levels. You have total faith in the "BOOKS" and you accept that as the total Truth regardless of the statement. On the other hand I want convincing logic to accept some statements. Because what ALL is being stated in the Book does not meet my test of believability. For instance - cycling of souls. No one believes that except Hindus and there is no convincing proof or logic offered to support this theory. It is just a theory. The stories of Past Life experiences are really not scrutinized closely enough to determine believability. If you don't believe in Soul recycling, then past Karma has no relevancy. And a lot of conclusions become redundant or ir-relevant. The concept of Heaven and Hell has nothing to do with the concept of recycling. Heaven and Hell are After Life consequences. If you ponder on this subject a little more, you will realize that this concept was introduced in the scriptures so that Mankind or people in general act "nicely" and be civil to each other. Some thing like the Ten Commandments. Good guidelines for the masses but far from reality. All the guidelines and suggestions in the scriptures are good for the masses. But you have to be able to see the reality from "good" intention concepts. Om Shanti -------------- Original message from "Manjula Patel" <manjumaa: -------------- My very own, Pranam. I have tried to answer your questions in your email. I highly recommend reading chapter 4 and digesting it as it answers lot more than just discussed here. Thanks, always in service at Thy Lotus Feet. On 7/3/06, jvardya <jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. 1. It is very easy and convenient to say that what we are experiencing today is the result of past "Karma" . How, why ? Just because a Swamiji / book says so does not make it so. As far as I can see there is no link to the past. None has been established. All a conjecture. Past Karma then becomes an easy, catch all, explanation for whatever is happening to a person. Just an "escapism". Answer: I always thought (at least for myself) that it has been always easy to point finger at others than accepting or taking responsibilities of my action when something goes wrong and taking all credits if something goes well :-) If that is not true for someone, my humble pranams to that being - he/she is already in the list of being a saint. Lord said in Gitaji (Chapter 4:Slokas 1-5) that you and I have passed through many births, I remember them but you don't... Our saints & sages have been the greatest scientists and they have studied for ages and whatever they discovered have came out as our scriptures. In this very age, we have so many reported incidents of childern recollecting their past lives or those who meditate on a regular basis recall their past lives! Lord also said (18:68), 'idam te naatapaskaaya naabhaktaaya kadaachana...' One can not make anyone understand if the person has no willingness/inclination/desire/openness to understand. 2. Let us think about some of the other faiths in the world. According to Quran, once a person dies, his soul does not come back to earth. No recycling of souls. Who is right? Certainly, the treatment of Souls after death would be the same for Hindus as well as Muslims, I would think. Even Christians do not believe in recycling of souls. Hence, no carrying forward of Karma to the next life. Answer: I have not read The Quran so I can't speak what this Holy Book has to say but they do have concepts of 'jannata' and 'jahannum' - heaven & hell...!!! So...? In The Bible there is a mention of returning back of John the Baptist. There is also no recycling of soul in the Sanaatan Dharma or so called 'Hinduism' as mentioned in Gitaji (4:9-10) - 'janma karma cha me divyam... vitaraagabhayakrodhaa...' 3. The decisions you make today certainly affects the outcome - short term. Within this life span and is measurable/record-able. Your physical/mental capabilities certainly determine how successful, (needs definition?), you are in life and how much capacity you have for happiness. Answer: 'The decisions you make...', just like that the decisions (desires) you made (had) in past lives affect your present life too & they can be short term as well as long term and yes they are also measurable/recordable - possible for those who have been meditating for long and have become knower of their past deeds. One who has reached equanimity is beyond success-failure, happiness-unhappiness/sadness/sorrowfulness - our scriptures have been calling this as living in 'Bliss'. 4. Gita is wonderful if you start in that faith. So is Quran. Both have a common denominator - a person is born into that particular faith. Have you evaluated the other faiths and then decided which is the best. There are contradictions between Gita, Quran and Bible. For instance, Quran says 'it is the duty of a Muslim to kill the infidels'. When this Muslim person dies, he goes to a special place (heaven) with Allah. Which one is right? Remember, there are a lot more Muslims than Hindus. Answer: Yes, faith is all what it takes and sure one can evaluate as many Faiths/Religions as they want and can take whatever they like out of it - both so called 'good' or 'evil', it is up to the individual and God reaches to all (4:11). I only know that all so called 'Faiths' lead to one TRUTH! Any realized saint from any religion will agree to it as they have no attachment to so called 'Faith/Religion'. I have known Muslims and Christians go to their places of worships with full faith in their religion and also have very strong faith in Vedanta so otherway around can be true too - Ramkrishna Paramhamsa followed many Faiths and proved that it all reached to the same conclusion! One can reach at the top of mountain from any side - north/south/east/west/north-east/north-west/etc..., circulating, straight or crooked way, slowly walking or running (according to their temprament and capacity) but eventually all will reach the Top - The Highest. There are stumbling blocks, hurdels, resistance and one may fall down and start all over again. My Baba says that all religions of the world are like petals of a flower and if you pluck any of these petals, the flower looses its beauty! So each and every Faith has its beauty, one needs clean eye to see it. 5. Intellectually, it helps if you concentrate on action (or Karma - prudent and fair) and not worry about the outcome, which is beyond your control anyway. A very practical approach to life. But when you loose the "I", you would also loose people like Mittal Steel, Infosys, etc. They are the risk takers and they are trying to satisfy their ego or "I". A very important part of the community for economic prosperity. In Sanatan Dharma / Hindu scriptures are full of examples where entereprenures had contributed in community for economic prosperity and have been detached - they were kings, ministers, teachers, businessmen, sweepers, farmers, etc. (4:13-15) - they all have given their fair shares for the community growth and they were far far away from 'I'. If one has desire to remain attached to certain people, they have not left 'I' even though they think they have. The so called big/famous/prosperous people with name-fame associated with them will go to this pure hearted person who has left 'I' not the otherway around!!! When Alexander attacked India he wanted to take a True Saint with him but failed...! To believe something either we have to trust other's words (our saints/sages/scriptures/guru) who have rediscovered themselves or if we don't trust them then we should have courage to experiment ourselves following the exact steps/methods recommended by them and come to a conclusion. Yoga (karma, gyaan, bhakti, whatever...) & meditations are not someones imaginary creation. It has been practiced for ages and same conclusion has been reached by all that there is One & ONLY One Truth exist! No intelligence is needed in performing experiment as someone has already figured it out - just like H2O, i.e., when 2 proportion of hydrogen is mixed with oxygen, it produces water - now dummy or intelligent one performs this experiment they both would end up concluding the same!!!!! It is up to us to put the teachings of our Rishis in practice with the right kind of understanding. humble regards. Om Shanti. -------------- Original message from "Manjula Patel" < manjumaa: -------------- Loving Divine, Pranam. Neither Lord in Gitaji nor Swamiji Maharaj nor any other saints and sages have ever requested any family man/woman to leave their family, not to earn and provide material things to survive or do their duties...!!! We interpret it this way only because we are very much situated in or attached to the matter, World, Prakriti, or in that which is always moving. Please read and digest Chapter 3 of Gitaji. No one can ever remain without action - physical or mental (3:4) - breathing is also an action. Lord Himself is guiding Arjun to do his duty and fight. So our misunderstanding lies in our ignorance only! Our ego and play of our mind (Maya) create such ignorance due to which we remain far away from God. Even Lord said in Gitaji, 'manushyanaam sahastreshu...(7:3)' that only rare one attains ME and it is all due to this ignorance. Let's cross our ego - 'ahamtaa' and focus on who is behind this 'I' or allowing us to say 'I am..' / 'me...' / 'my..' or 'mine...' We say these things like - this is my house or my wife or my family. We also say my mind is tired or my intellect is not working or my memory is blocked or my ego came in between. We also say things like 'why me?' or 'I tried everything but the result is adverse and unexpected' or 'I don't know what caused it?' So these 3 sets of questions or sentences focus on gross, astral or causal aspect of us - so for most of us this 'I' is strongly associated with these 3 aspects of our life (Prakriti, ego, mind, intelluct & memory, & ignorance) but there is another 'I' - 'The Self' that is within & outside us and is beyond these 3 aspects and Swamiji Maharaj or other siants and sages point us towards IT when they talk about 'vairaagya'. When we are situated in that higher 'I' or 'The Self', we know that ALL is DONE by IT and not by usual 'I, me, my, or mine...' Being aware of the actual DOER of our actions brings detachment t o it - job is done, money is earned, family is taken care of, all required duties are performed but not by the usual 'I/me/my/mine...' rather this superior Self who leads (makes it possible) us to do it all and thus detachment or egolessness develops. So if you read those 3 sets of questions or comments again and ask yourself 'WHO is it behind this 'I' that knows about all activities of this lower 'I'; who is that Shaakshi; you might be able to see the point that Swamiji Maharaj is making. You may agree to call IT as The God like most of us or give IT a name that suits your temprament, it doesn't matter!!! :-) Without breath where is this so called 'I/me or mine...? Who is breathing within you? Who is keeping you alive? In past we had some good discussion to understand this lower 'I' and higher 'Self' so would like to point you to few of the examples listed in those emails that have been archieved at /. Please read responses # 99, 101, 110, 116, 125, 127, 136, 139, 142, 145, 152, 164, 166, & 168 (I don't know exactly which email will fit the best - they all have something to help enhance our understanding). The areas of Prakriti that we human beings are able to know and define, we use some name to identify those forms and to show superiority of that aspect we have been calling them God - we have no control over it and you know..., surprisingly enough nothing falls beyond earth (mater), water, fire (light), air, & vacuum (our body is made up of these 5 elements and so is the rest of material creation) + antahkaran (ego, memory, mind & intellect) so whatever that is beyond these elements our Saints and Sages have been calling IT God / Brahman / Self. Historically, they all knew this aspect of us called 'The God - one & only one, all pervading, all knowing, deathless, birthless, still, bliss, live (Chetan), detached, perfect, etc.' So called god/lord of earth, water, fire, air, space/vacuum, mind, ego, intellect, etc. are categorized into demi gods (prayers to them also reach The God). 'The God' is beyond everything and that's what we are discussing here - keeping teachings of Gitaji/Lord Krishna as our medium. Swamiji Maharaj has been a great help in understanding and interpreting Gitaji for us and how to realize The God or Self. No one is born simply by the act of others, we are brought on this earth ONLY because of OUR OWN action (karma)!!! Based on our karma we were attracted to our mother's womb. Because of her karma she was able to sustain us! So due to our mutual karma, we are born in the family we are born with the siblings and relatives we have!!! So if we have attitude to blame others for our existence, please let us correct it first. We are put in a right place, right time, amongst right people every moment so that we evolve. Hope this helps... Love always... At Thy Divine Feet On 7/1/06, jvardya < jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. I have been reading the correspondence from you and the Readers. Some of the messages are esoteric and difficult to relate to in terms of practical every day life. We all have to earn a living and provide for material things for the family. Basic survival things like housing, food , resources for education, etc. There is an enormous satisfaction in achieving goals such as financial, career, etc. We can not just renounce the world of materialism and give up all things and become totally detached. And for what? To become totally passive. That brings me to ask the basic question - HOW DO YOU DEFINE GOD ? Not his attributes but the basic definition. Is God embodiment of all that we do not know? Historically, that is the definition. From the old times, if we did not understand Fire or lightning etc., we lumped that phenomenon as God of Fire, etc.. And why is it important to relate to God in everyday life. I can be just as happy or happier without recognition of God. I thought that was the goal in life - to be happy and make others happy with your behavior. We did not come in to Life with our own will but by the action of others. So you try to make the best of it. Thank you. Suresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Loving Divine, Pranam. I have a request, please provide honest answers to yourself (we don't need to hear any of it because your honesty to yourself will help you only :-)) How many scriptures have you read? As mentioned in the email you don't have any faith in so called 'BOOK' but you mentioned about ALL that is written in them - makes us belive you have read them all - Bagawada Gita (there are other Gitas too written by other Sages!), Vedas-Upanishads, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Bhaktisutras, Aatmabodh, Tatvabodh, Torah, Quran, Bible, Shri Gurugranthsaheb, etc. (and you really could not find anything that can really help you transform? Entire life can be spent just sticking to one teaching, e.g., being honest - not with others but your very own self, and nothing else would have needed to accept from any of the so called 'BOOK'.) How many did you truly understand? How much effort did you put in truly understanding them before concluding that they are not for you to trust? Were you discussing the subject for the sake of discussion because you have merely heard those sentences from somebody else too and found them very convenient to believe (without doing much investigation) usually that is the easy route people take to hide their weaknesses (I am not saying necessarily that you are doing it, I am mentioning the usual route...) Did you ever tried honestly to follow any of the teachings of any of the scriptures? Did any of it transformed your life? If not did you search your heart that where were you lacking? During this transformation did you run into any difficulties? If yes, did you take the help of same scripture to find out an answer OR did you humbly request any wise/holyman/so called Swamiji for assistance? If yes, were you rejected by any of them saying that they can't guide you based on what our scriptures have to say? If yes, did that scripture/guru provided you guidance? If I say I know my past lives would you believe it? If I tell you my experience of yoga-meditation matches with what is written in the scriptures, would you ever believe it? If I tell you I accepted the challenge to experiment myself (why trust anybody?) and honestly tried to follow what my Baba/Guru had to say and He was kind enough to help me see what I needed to see in the scriptures, would you believe it? If I tell you that you don't need any book or any guru to know your True Faith, would you believe it? If I tell you that the Soul is NEVER recycled, it is just a mind game / Maya, would you believe it? Do you really trust yourself? Do you really want to transform? Do you really trust any Faith? Do you really trust anybody? How much do you know about yourself? Do you really know anything at all? WHO are YOU? Again, no need to answer any of it to anybody, just to yourself only ;-) That is the beauty of Maya :-), we don't truly trust anybody but our own self, i.e., 'I' - the ego aspect, and we like to play the game with our own self (I called them cheating games - if you become aware of how your mind and ego plays with you, you would understand what I am saying... - be a SHAAKSHI first and you will know it all :-)). We think we have full faith in ourselves, our strength, our capacity, etc. and that's why it is extremely difficult to completely 'surrender' to God. As Lord said in Gitaji that you are your friend and you are your enemy. However many proofs are presented to however many people by however many Saints & Sages, until we do it ourselves no proof is good enough!!!!!!!!!!!!! One would believe what experiences they have or how much they want to expand them. Most of us don't want to learn from others mistakes (because we think I am not that dumm...) but end up making the same mistakes and learn from it when Prakriti decides to teach the lesson harder way! Most of us don't want to wake-up until forced to do so. Bagavad Gita is not a book of external fight that took place in Kurukshetra, it is a book of fight that continuously happens within us between our lower self and higher self, between our mind and intellect, between our good habits and bad/evil/animalistic tendencies, between our own bondage & effort to liberate. It is a great book of psychology. Similarly other Holy Scriptures from other Faith represents the same thing but who truly takes interest in looking within while reading them? We all are so tightly trapped by Mahamaya, we don't have time to look within; no time to contemplate, no time to take deep dive!!! We read them just for the sake of reading - why bother implementing anything? Who is true Muslim? Do you even know the meaning of Muslim? What does it mean to kill infidels? We search answers outside but they are related to our inner being. Just like we have Kauravs (our bad tendencies/habits) to be killed, we have infidels to kill. We consider all external glitter as Gold and miss out on the true Diamond within!!! Those who searches within are the recipient... After asking tons of questions to Krishna (Supreme Soul), Arjun (Lower Self) finally said that now I know my true self, I surrender, I will do whatever you would ask me to do (18:73 - nashto moha smutir...) Whether there is recycling of soul or not, whether there is karma theory or not - NONE matters IF WE ARE NOT WILLING TO TRANSFORM OURSELVES!!! I say there is no recycling of soul, I completely AGREE with YOU because it is all mind game, so now I say let's discover 'who am I?' in this very life, in this very moment, just NOW. To study our own self no BOOK or SWAMI or GURU is needed, only what is needed is to look within, watch our own thoughts - the mind game, watch our own ego, watch how convincing they become in making us slip from our goal/effort - CAN WE NOT DO THAT PLEASE????? Be honest to our own self? Be watchful of our own self? Enjoy being our own self? My love forever, at Thy Lotus Feet from where the energy flows to strengthen our Faith in WHO TRULY WE ARE On 7/4/06, jvardya <jvardya wrote: Om Shanti I want to thank you and appreciate your reply. This will be my last communication on this subject. I and you are discussing this subject on two different levels. You have total faith in the " BOOKS " and you accept that as the total Truth regardless of the statement. On the other hand I want convincing logic to accept some statements. Because what ALL is being stated in the Book does not meet my test of believability. For instance - cycling of souls. No one believes that except Hindus and there is no convincing proof or logic offered to support this theory. It is just a theory. The stories of Past Life experiences are really not scrutinized closely enough to determine believability. If you don't believe in Soul recycling, then past Karma has no relevancy. And a lot of conclusions become redundant or ir-relevant. The concept of Heaven and Hell has nothing to do with the concept of recycling. Heaven and Hell are After Life consequences. If you ponder on this subject a little more, you will realize that this concept was introduced in the scriptures so that Mankind or people in general act " nicely " and be civil to each other. Some thing like the Ten Commandments. Good guidelines for the masses but far from reality. All the guidelines and suggestions in the scriptures are good for the masses. But you have to be able to see the reality from " good " intention concepts. Om Shanti -------------- Original message from " Manjula Patel " < manjumaa: -------------- My very own, Pranam. I have tried to answer your questions in your email. I highly recommend reading chapter 4 and digesting it as it answers lot more than just discussed here. Thanks, always in service at Thy Lotus Feet. On 7/3/06, jvardya < jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. 1. It is very easy and convenient to say that what we are experiencing today is the result of past " Karma " . How, why ? Just because a Swamiji / book says so does not make it so. As far as I can see there is no link to the past. None has been established. All a conjecture. Past Karma then becomes an easy, catch all, explanation for whatever is happening to a person. Just an " escapism " . Answer: I always thought (at least for myself) that it has been always easy to point finger at others than accepting or taking responsibilities of my action when something goes wrong and taking all credits if something goes well :-) If that is not true for someone, my humble pranams to that being - he/she is already in the list of being a saint. Lord said in Gitaji (Chapter 4:Slokas 1-5) that you and I have passed through many births, I remember them but you don't... Our saints & sages have been the greatest scientists and they have studied for ages and whatever they discovered have came out as our scriptures. In this very age, we have so many reported incidents of childern recollecting their past lives or those who meditate on a regular basis recall their past lives! Lord also said (18:68), 'idam te naatapaskaaya naabhaktaaya kadaachana...' One can not make anyone understand if the person has no willingness/inclination/desire/openness to understand. 2. Let us think about some of the other faiths in the world. According to Quran, once a person dies, his soul does not come back to earth. No recycling of souls. Who is right? Certainly, the treatment of Souls after death would be the same for Hindus as well as Muslims, I would think. Even Christians do not believe in recycling of souls. Hence, no carrying forward of Karma to the next life. Answer: I have not read The Quran so I can't speak what this Holy Book has to say but they do have concepts of 'jannata' and 'jahannum' - heaven & hell...!!! So...? In The Bible there is a mention of returning back of John the Baptist. There is also no recycling of soul in the Sanaatan Dharma or so called 'Hinduism' as mentioned in Gitaji (4:9-10) - 'janma karma cha me divyam... vitaraagabhayakrodhaa...' 3. The decisions you make today certainly affects the outcome - short term. Within this life span and is measurable/record-able. Your physical/mental capabilities certainly determine how successful, (needs definition?), you are in life and how much capacity you have for happiness. Answer: 'The decisions you make...', just like that the decisions (desires) you made (had) in past lives affect your present life too & they can be short term as well as long term and yes they are also measurable/recordable - possible for those who have been meditating for long and have become knower of their past deeds. One who has reached equanimity is beyond success-failure, happiness-unhappiness/sadness/sorrowfulness - our scriptures have been calling this as living in 'Bliss'. 4. Gita is wonderful if you start in that faith. So is Quran. Both have a common denominator - a person is born into that particular faith. Have you evaluated the other faiths and then decided which is the best. There are contradictions between Gita, Quran and Bible. For instance, Quran says 'it is the duty of a Muslim to kill the infidels'. When this Muslim person dies, he goes to a special place (heaven) with Allah. Which one is right? Remember, there are a lot more Muslims than Hindus. Answer: Yes, faith is all what it takes and sure one can evaluate as many Faiths/Religions as they want and can take whatever they like out of it - both so called 'good' or 'evil', it is up to the individual and God reaches to all (4:11). I only know that all so called 'Faiths' lead to one TRUTH! Any realized saint from any religion will agree to it as they have no attachment to so called 'Faith/Religion'. I have known Muslims and Christians go to their places of worships with full faith in their religion and also have very strong faith in Vedanta so otherway around can be true too - Ramkrishna Paramhamsa followed many Faiths and proved that it all reached to the same conclusion! One can reach at the top of mountain from any side - north/south/east/west/north-east/north-west/etc..., circulating, straight or crooked way, slowly walking or running (according to their temprament and capacity) but eventually all will reach the Top - The Highest. There are stumbling blocks, hurdels, resistance and one may fall down and start all over again. My Baba says that all religions of the world are like petals of a flower and if you pluck any of these petals, the flower looses its beauty! So each and every Faith has its beauty, one needs clean eye to see it. 5. Intellectually, it helps if you concentrate on action (or Karma - prudent and fair) and not worry about the outcome, which is beyond your control anyway. A very practical approach to life. But when you loose the " I " , you would also loose people like Mittal Steel, Infosys, etc. They are the risk takers and they are trying to satisfy their ego or " I " . A very important part of the community for economic prosperity. In Sanatan Dharma / Hindu scriptures are full of examples where entereprenures had contributed in community for economic prosperity and have been detached - they were kings, ministers, teachers, businessmen, sweepers, farmers, etc. (4:13-15) - they all have given their fair shares for the community growth and they were far far away from 'I'. If one has desire to remain attached to certain people, they have not left 'I' even though they think they have. The so called big/famous/prosperous people with name-fame associated with them will go to this pure hearted person who has left 'I' not the otherway around!!! When Alexander attacked India he wanted to take a True Saint with him but failed...! To believe something either we have to trust other's words (our saints/sages/scriptures/guru) who have rediscovered themselves or if we don't trust them then we should have courage to experiment ourselves following the exact steps/methods recommended by them and come to a conclusion. Yoga (karma, gyaan, bhakti, whatever...) & meditations are not someones imaginary creation. It has been practiced for ages and same conclusion has been reached by all that there is One & ONLY One Truth exist! No intelligence is needed in performing experiment as someone has already figured it out - just like H2O, i.e., when 2 proportion of hydrogen is mixed with oxygen, it produces water - now dummy or intelligent one performs this experiment they both would end up concluding the same!!!!! It is up to us to put the teachings of our Rishis in practice with the right kind of understanding. humble regards. Om Shanti. -------------- Original message from " Manjula Patel " < manjumaa: -------------- Loving Divine, Pranam. Neither Lord in Gitaji nor Swamiji Maharaj nor any other saints and sages have ever requested any family man/woman to leave their family, not to earn and provide material things to survive or do their duties...!!! We interpret it this way only because we are very much situated in or attached to the matter, World, Prakriti, or in that which is always moving. Please read and digest Chapter 3 of Gitaji. No one can ever remain without action - physical or mental (3:4) - breathing is also an action. Lord Himself is guiding Arjun to do his duty and fight. So our misunderstanding lies in our ignorance only! Our ego and play of our mind (Maya) create such ignorance due to which we remain far away from God. Even Lord said in Gitaji, 'manushyanaam sahastreshu...(7:3)' that only rare one attains ME and it is all due to this ignorance. Let's cross our ego - 'ahamtaa' and focus on who is behind this 'I' or allowing us to say 'I am..' / 'me...' / 'my..' or 'mine...' We say these things like - this is my house or my wife or my family. We also say my mind is tired or my intellect is not working or my memory is blocked or my ego came in between. We also say things like 'why me?' or 'I tried everything but the result is adverse and unexpected' or 'I don't know what caused it?' So these 3 sets of questions or sentences focus on gross, astral or causal aspect of us - so for most of us this 'I' is strongly associated with these 3 aspects of our life (Prakriti, ego, mind, intelluct & memory, & ignorance) but there is another 'I' - 'The Self' that is within & outside us and is beyond these 3 aspects and Swamiji Maharaj or other siants and sages point us towards IT when they talk about 'vairaagya'. When we are situated in that higher 'I' or 'The Self', we know that ALL is DONE by IT and not by usual 'I, me, my, or mine...' Being aware of the actual DOER of our actions brings detachment t o it - job is done, money is earned, family is taken care of, all required duties are performed but not by the usual 'I/me/my/mine...' rather this superior Self who leads (makes it possible) us to do it all and thus detachment or egolessness develops. So if you read those 3 sets of questions or comments again and ask yourself 'WHO is it behind this 'I' that knows about all activities of this lower 'I'; who is that Shaakshi; you might be able to see the point that Swamiji Maharaj is making. You may agree to call IT as The God like most of us or give IT a name that suits your temprament, it doesn't matter!!! :-) Without breath where is this so called 'I/me or mine...? Who is breathing within you? Who is keeping you alive? In past we had some good discussion to understand this lower 'I' and higher 'Self' so would like to point you to few of the examples listed in those emails that have been archieved at /. Please read responses # 99, 101, 110, 116, 125, 127, 136, 139, 142, 145, 152, 164, 166, & 168 (I don't know exactly which email will fit the best - they all have something to help enhance our understanding). The areas of Prakriti that we human beings are able to know and define, we use some name to identify those forms and to show superiority of that aspect we have been calling them God - we have no control over it and you know..., surprisingly enough nothing falls beyond earth (mater), water, fire (light), air, & vacuum (our body is made up of these 5 elements and so is the rest of material creation) + antahkaran (ego, memory, mind & intellect) so whatever that is beyond these elements our Saints and Sages have been calling IT God / Brahman / Self. Historically, they all knew this aspect of us called 'The God - one & only one, all pervading, all knowing, deathless, birthless, still, bliss, live (Chetan), detached, perfect, etc.' So called god/lord of earth, water, fire, air, space/vacuum, mind, ego, intellect, etc. are categorized into demi gods (prayers to them also reach The God). 'The God' is beyond everything and that's what we are discussing here - keeping teachings of Gitaji/Lord Krishna as our medium. Swamiji Maharaj has been a great help in understanding and interpreting Gitaji for us and how to realize The God or Self. No one is born simply by the act of others, we are brought on this earth ONLY because of OUR OWN action (karma)!!! Based on our karma we were attracted to our mother's womb. Because of her karma she was able to sustain us! So due to our mutual karma, we are born in the family we are born with the siblings and relatives we have!!! So if we have attitude to blame others for our existence, please let us correct it first. We are put in a right place, right time, amongst right people every moment so that we evolve. Hope this helps... Love always... At Thy Divine Feet On 7/1/06, jvardya < jvardya wrote: Om Shanti. I have been reading the correspondence from you and the Readers. Some of the messages are esoteric and difficult to relate to in terms of practical every day life. We all have to earn a living and provide for material things for the family. Basic survival things like housing, food , resources for education, etc. There is an enormous satisfaction in achieving goals such as financial, career, etc. We can not just renounce the world of materialism and give up all things and become totally detached. And for what? To become totally passive. That brings me to ask the basic question - HOW DO YOU DEFINE GOD ? Not his attributes but the basic definition. Is God embodiment of all that we do not know? Historically, that is the definition. From the old times, if we did not understand Fire or lightning etc., we lumped that phenomenon as God of Fire, etc.. And why is it important to relate to God in everyday life. I can be just as happy or happier without recognition of God. I thought that was the goal in life - to be happy and make others happy with your behavior. We did not come in to Life with our own will but by the action of others. So you try to make the best of it. Thank you. Suresh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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