Let's expand our horizon w/Gitaji - how 2 b detached: body-world? (1 of 8 emails)

[Guest guest]

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

We have very good discussions going on with various questions asked in this group. Thanks to all for their participation and the Moderator for facilitation.

 

We all say and agree that we need to be detached but the key concern is 'HOW?', isn't it? To address various topics of detachment I have divided them into 8 emails so we can discuss them individually. I have also tried to provide Gita sloka or chapter or a term/word used that have addressed them but Gitaji has lot more to offer...!!! I am a strong believer that the RIGHT UNDERSTANDING is the ONLY way that can lead us to true and deeper level of detachment. So let's expand our horizon together with Gitaji and supportive examples where applicable. Let's pour out our understanding and experiences on how to be truly detached with love & compassion - the true application of Gitaji in our life.

 

 

First, let's understand what is body and world? - Just 'kshetra' - Chapter 13 (please do not discuss about kshetrajna in this email). We can also discuss 'dharmakshetra'

, 'kurukshetra', & 'dharmakshetra-kurukshetra' - Chapter 1.

 

Lord said we need to cultivate this body land. As Gitaji is consider to be an essence of Vedas-Upanishads, I think it is ok to bring examples from other scriptures to support the sloka chosen from Gitaji.

 

(Please note: provide related Gita Sloka 1st, support it with examples from other scriptures if needed)

Please discuss...

1) What is body, its nature?

2) Can body be attached to anything?

3) Is body subject to any pain or pleasure?

4) What is world, its nature?

5) Does material wealth carry any pleasure? Is it worth attaching to?

6) who shall we be attached to, if anybody/thing at all? Is there a need for us to be attached to anybody/thing? Why?

 

Thanks in advance for your participation.

Love.

always at Thy Feet worthy of worship

[Guest guest]

Loving All,

Pranam.

If we talk to any realized person, he/she would tell us to look within. God is all pervading so He is naturally within us too, right? So why not to start searching Him within us? As Swamiji and Babaji have been mentioning this so many times that God is present now so I don't need to wait for Him in future; God is within me so I don't need to search for Him outside... Let's just try to implement this simple fact. Let's promise ourselves to start looking within. Any time any situation arises, let's look within, be a witness of what's going on inside our head (mind) and notice or ask ourselves, is this my attachment to the worldly object that is making me restless?

 

 

(Hindi: kuch logone vinati ki hai ki me kuch Hindi me bhi likhu... Ye bahut kathin hogaa isliye bhaavaarth samazne ke liye bich me kuch shabda Hindi me likhe hen. Hindi bhaashaakaa galaa ghontne ke liye kshamaa...

Kisibhi jyaani se puchenge to vo yahi kahega Bagwaan ko apne andar khojo. Agar Bhagwaan sarvavyapi hai to vo hamaare andar bhi he, kya ye sach nahi he? Swamiji bhi kaibaar ye kahate hen ki Bhagwaan yahin he use khojne ke liye kahin jaaneki jarurat nahi; vo hamare andar he, use baahar khojne ki jarurat nahi he... Isi baat ko agar ham svikaar le aur ise amal kare to jo bhi kuch ho rahaa he use mook shakshi bhaav se dekhte rahe ki hamaare dimaag me kyaa chal rahaa hai aur apne aapse puche ki ye hamaaraa moha/anuraag hai jo hame is kadar vyavhaar karne ke liye prerit kar rahaa he?

 

Humble regards,

always at Thy Lotus Feet

---------- Forwarded message ----------Manjula Patel <

manjumaa

[Guest guest]

Dear Fellow Sadhakas, Namaste!

 

Inspired by the Geeta Ch 13 and Shankara's vivekchudamani(Crest jewel

of discrimination), I humbly submit the following as a way to grasp

the meaning of Krishna's message, and to lay emphasis on Krishna as

Supreme Consciousness. As we shall see this very COnsciousness is

what 'I' is in all of us!

 

On the path of knowledge, we need to observe and understand certain

facts about our experiences. We can almost call them spiritual laws.

These laws are more precise than physical, natural or psychological

laws!

 

First: Whatever I experience through senses and mind as " feelings and

thoughts " , called perceptions, cannot be I or me or mine. I

experience objects of which I am the subject. Objects are perceived

by senses and conceived by mind, intellect and memories. These

objects include body, sense-objects(sound, form, touch etc etc),

mind, intellect, memories, and objects of external world.

It is strange that I call body, thus perceived as mine, and act as if

I am the body-mind and memories constituting history of my life etc,

not recognizing the fact that these are objects of perceptions only.

According to Bhagwat Geeta, they are Kshetra, or field of perceived

objects and I am Kshetragna, or the knower of them. It is clear this

knower is not the body-mind I believe to be I throughout the life.

 

Second: These objects of perception or " experienced objects " are

defined by names and shapes(nama, rupa) with attributes such as

beautiful or ugly, hard or soft, pleasurable or painful, etc etc

limiting them. However, none of these attributes belong to I, the

subject knower. Therefore, I cannot be limited by them, particularly

by body or mind, which I call I or me. In summary, experienced

objects are limited and I, being the perceiver or the knower cannot

not limited, as “I†that I am, is not perceived as object of this

world(If perceived, I become limited object like other objects). I am

not perceivable and therefore, beyond mind's comprehension,

nevertheless I know I am experientially as conscious being! This is

Crest Jewel of discrimination, Kshetragna-I and its Kshetra-objects!

 

This leads me to be open to the possibility that I am That Awareness

or Consciousness because I am undoubtedly conscious and existing all

the time I experience anything. I experience objects appearing and

disappearing as thoughts of those objects come and go. This shows me

that " I " that experiences, has to be Consciousness Itself and the

nature of objects experienced is just these thoughts, and therefore,

has to be the same Consciousness. Experientially speaking, " being

conscious " is my true nature, or Sat-Chit nature as it is called in

Upanishads.

 

So what I am really is This Consciousness, which we all call I and

mistake for body-mind based self or ego, a false sense of

independently existing entity! This Consciousness is One we all share

as we cannot produce any proof of It being personal for each one of

us.

 

If we remain open to possibility of it being One and Impersonal, and

act from this knowledge in all our dealing with world, we will

receive the proof miraculously from Consciousness Itself, also called

God! I as Impersonal Consciousness is eternal even as body-mind

organism dies. This is the realization of Immortality!

 

Namaskar.... Pratap in Divine friendship

Pratap Bhatt

---

 

, " Manjula Patel " <manjumaa

wrote:

>

> Loving Divine,

> Pranam.

> We have very good discussions going on with various questions

asked in this

> group. Thanks to all for their participation and the Moderator for

> facilitation.

>

> We all say and agree that we need to be detached but the key

concern is

> 'HOW?', isn't it? To address various topics of detachment I have

divided

> them into 8 emails so we can discuss them individually. I have

also tried

> to provide Gita sloka or chapter or a term/word used that have

addressed

> them but Gitaji has lot more to offer...!!! I am a strong

believer that the

> RIGHT UNDERSTANDING is the ONLY way that can lead us to true and

deeper

> level of detachment. So let's expand our horizon together with

Gitaji and

> supportive examples where applicable. Let's pour out our

understanding and

> experiences on how to be truly detached with love & compassion -

the true

> application of Gitaji in our life.

>

> First, let's understand what is body and world? - Just

*'kshetra'* - *Chapter

> 13* (please do not discuss about kshetrajna in this email). We

can also

> discuss *'dharmakshetra'* , *'kurukshetra'*, & *'dharmakshetra-

kurukshetra'

> - Chapter 1*.

>

> Lord said we need to cultivate this body land. As Gitaji is

consider to be

> an essence of Vedas-Upanishads, I think it is ok to bring examples

from

> other scriptures to support the sloka chosen from Gitaji.

>

> (Please *note*: provide related Gita Sloka 1st, support it with

examples

> from other scriptures if needed)

> Please *discuss*...

> 1) What is body, its nature?

> 2) Can body be attached to anything?

> 3) Is body subject to any pain or pleasure?

> 4) What is world, its nature?

> 5) Does material wealth carry any pleasure? Is it worth attaching

to?

> 6) who shall we be attached to, if anybody/thing at all? Is there

a need

> for us to be attached to anybody/thing? Why?

>

> Thanks in advance for your participation.

> Love.

> always at Thy Feet worthy of worship

>

[Guest guest]

Dear loved all

 

Tutorial type study of BG is truely very sensibile idea. Thanks to

Manjula.

 

Bhagwat Gita refers body as occupancy (deha, dehi), of different

designs and construction (shariir, shariirani), is physical (bhoot,

bhootani), for occupancy (kashya, kasi), and occupancy (vaasa,

niwaas, aawaas), and field of study/inquiry (kshetra) and senses

(indriyas). Folloing 7 words are about body i.e., physical

occupancy and of senses and inquiry.

body is Deha, dehi (english : living place, occupancy) i.e, Dehant

= occpancy over or death of body. 2/13,18,22,30, 59

body is bhoot, bhootani (english: physical). 2/30,34

Body is indriya (english: senses) and vishaya (english: subject via

senses) see 2/61.62,64, 67

body is shareer or shariirani (english: specification or design)

2/18, 2/22 house of different design = deha (occupancy) in different

shareer (design or construction type).

body is kashya, kaya (english: house, occupancy) i.e., kashi where

Shiva's living place BG 1/17

body is vaasa (english:where one lives or in hindi aavvaas, niwaas

where people live) See : 2/22

kshetra is field or place of activity or subject of inquiry. It is

inference to some extent about body.

 

Body, very simply put is a house or occupancy. It is of physical

(bhoot) nature and therefore visible and recognized by senses.

Everybody needs house where he/she got a job, to be able to do the

work what is must. 'shareer matren khalu dharma shadhan' i.e., body

is a means of transformation in svabhaav (dharma). As do people

change houses or cloth or cities,... it is all examples of changes

of body. When you live in Delhi and get a new job in Mumbai, you

cease to live in Delhi (died in Delhi), and get reborn in Mumbai in

a new career and start a new relationship and new responsibility.

This change in occupancy status is called death or dehant. Even it

happens all time.. an infant becomes boy, then adult, then old ....

and these changes in occupancy is continuity of death and rebirth in

course of the journey from beginning of the universe till present.

 

The phyical or bodily disposition is not very long lasting, but

intent in the svabhaav cannot be separated, and is constantly on the

move and this sense of transition in disposition is a reason enough

for detachment. If the svabhhav (dharma) is uprisng, the body will

be accordingly changes for better and so there can be no attachment

to old one, but if the road is known, death or loss of occupancy is

resisted by attachment. This explanation is suggesting how

attachment to body is not very wise but stick to ones' svabhaav, and

not let it get deteriorated.

 

regards

Krishna Gopal

-

Loving Divine,

Pranams.

Thanks to Pratapji and Misraji for their inspiring insight. I would

appreciate it if you and others could take time and response to

other questions in that same email (1 of 8) so we all can benefit.

Thanks.

 

For new members: Team, about couple of years ago, I had presented 8

emails titled 'Let's Expand Our Horizon w/Gitaji:... ... ... "

questioning various aspects to be studied for our spiritual

evolution. I started the discussion expecting some participation.

One can go to group achieves

(/ and search these

messages. You can type 'Horizon' in the search field it will bring

all messages.

 

I replied to my own email (1 of 8 - what is body?) just to start of

the discussion. It can be found at:

/message/411

/message/451

 

Hope we all can benefit from this discussion. Thanks again.

humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

---

With all the respects to all the seekers and believers a question:

So what happens to " I " the consciousness during general anesthesia?

I struggle with these concepts and so help me. Is it possible to

logically decipher " God " Or there is no choice but to conclude

that " He is omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, and all merciful,

but beyond mind and matter " and just do what one must with the

prayer that whenever we get despirited " He " hold our hand and sooth

us. I know I have to suffer the consequences of Karma, I know that

mind is like a wind, and all in the field is under the influence of

PRAKRITI and GUNA.

 

HEMENDRA PARIKH

---

 

Mahoday,

 

I wish to enumerate some of my thinking on this subject which may

appear not so much in line with Shri Gitaji's teachings or what Shri

Krishn Said:

 

1. The 'I " you are talking about is only a witness; it does not get

involved in whatever you do or think. So, in my opinion, its role

is mainly to supply you like an electric current or a life in your

physical body. It just watches and records whatever you are

thinking, what are you doing how you are spending your life;

 

2. The next life or getting born again and again and whether in

swarg or narak or on earth in a high or low situation completely

depends on your thoughts and actions in this life and before it; so

it is your karma alone which decides your future, whether you spend

your time thinking about money, women, wine or you spend it in

helping your poor brother and disciplining yourself doing

meditation, prayers and living a straight life.

 

3. It does not depend at all on the 'I' or the witness or the soul,

which is supposed to be the same in each one of us. In Jain dharma

they say that your actions stick to your soul like honey, very very

hard and this will make for your happiness or unhappiness moksha or

going to hell.

 

4. So, why we are wasting so much time talking about an 'I " over

which we have no control and who is just supplying us with the life

current without itself getting involved in our deeds and thinking

and acting as a witness.

 

5. It would be much better to stop wasting time on our 'I' or on

parmatma but to straighten our actions and thinking for which there

is plenty of guidance in all Hindu religions and sub religions and

which will bring us to a better present and future life or even

moksha.

 

I would be grateful for your comments, if any one will care to do so

on this important subject. Please excuse my repetition for giving

emphasis to the point which I am trying to make.

 

JAI SITARAMJIKI, JAIRADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN,

 

With respects to you all,

 

Bhavdiya

---

 

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Dear Fellow Sadhakas, Namaste!

>

> Inspired by the Geeta Ch 13 and Shankara's vivekchudamani(Crest

jewel

> of discrimination), I humbly submit the following as a way to grasp

> the meaning of Krishna's message, and to lay emphasis on Krishna as

> Supreme Consciousness. As we shall see this very COnsciousness is

> what 'I' is in all of us!

>

> On the path of knowledge, we need to observe and understand certain

> facts about our experiences. We can almost call them spiritual

laws.

> These laws are more precise than physical, natural or psychological

> laws!

>

> First: Whatever I experience through senses and mind as " feelings

and

> thoughts " , called perceptions, cannot be I or me or mine. I

> experience objects of which I am the subject. Objects are perceived

> by senses and conceived by mind, intellect and memories. These

> objects include body, sense-objects(sound, form, touch etc etc),

> mind, intellect, memories, and objects of external world.

> It is strange that I call body, thus perceived as mine, and act as

if

> I am the body-mind and memories constituting history of my life

etc,

> not recognizing the fact that these are objects of perceptions

only.

> According to Bhagwat Geeta, they are Kshetra, or field of perceived

> objects and I am Kshetragna, or the knower of them. It is clear

this

> knower is not the body-mind I believe to be I throughout the life.

>

> Second: These objects of perception or " experienced objects " are

> defined by names and shapes(nama, rupa) with attributes such as

> beautiful or ugly, hard or soft, pleasurable or painful, etc etc

> limiting them. However, none of these attributes belong to I, the

> subject knower. Therefore, I cannot be limited by them,

particularly

> by body or mind, which I call I or me. In summary, experienced

> objects are limited and I, being the perceiver or the knower cannot

> not limited, as “I†that I am, is not perceived as object of

this

> world(If perceived, I become limited object like other objects). I

am

> not perceivable and therefore, beyond mind's comprehension,

> nevertheless I know I am experientially as conscious being! This is

> Crest Jewel of discrimination, Kshetragna-I and its Kshetra-

objects!

>

> This leads me to be open to the possibility that I am That

Awareness

> or Consciousness because I am undoubtedly conscious and existing

all

> the time I experience anything. I experience objects appearing and

> disappearing as thoughts of those objects come and go. This shows

me

> that " I " that experiences, has to be Consciousness Itself and the

> nature of objects experienced is just these thoughts, and

therefore,

> has to be the same Consciousness. Experientially speaking, " being

> conscious " is my true nature, or Sat-Chit nature as it is called in

> Upanishads.

>

> So what I am really is This Consciousness, which we all call I and

> mistake for body-mind based self or ego, a false sense of

> independently existing entity! This Consciousness is One we all

share

> as we cannot produce any proof of It being personal for each one of

> us.

>

> If we remain open to possibility of it being One and Impersonal,

and

> act from this knowledge in all our dealing with world, we will

> receive the proof miraculously from Consciousness Itself, also

called

> God! I as Impersonal Consciousness is eternal even as body-mind

> organism dies. This is the realization of Immortality!

>

> Namaskar.... Pratap in Divine friendship

> Pratap Bhatt

> -

--

>

> , " Manjula Patel " <manjumaa@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Loving Divine,

> > Pranam.

> > We have very good discussions going on with various questions

> asked in this

> > group. Thanks to all for their participation and the Moderator

for

> > facilitation.

> >

> > We all say and agree that we need to be detached but the key

> concern is

> > 'HOW?', isn't it? To address various topics of detachment I

have

> divided

> > them into 8 emails so we can discuss them individually. I have

> also tried

> > to provide Gita sloka or chapter or a term/word used that have

> addressed

> > them but Gitaji has lot more to offer...!!! I am a strong

> believer that the

> > RIGHT UNDERSTANDING is the ONLY way that can lead us to true and

> deeper

> > level of detachment. So let's expand our horizon together with

> Gitaji and

> > supportive examples where applicable. Let's pour out our

> understanding and

> > experiences on how to be truly detached with love & compassion -

> the true

> > application of Gitaji in our life.

> >

> > First, let's understand what is body and world? - Just

> *'kshetra'* - *Chapter

> > 13* (please do not discuss about kshetrajna in this email). We

> can also

> > discuss *'dharmakshetra'* , *'kurukshetra'*, & *'dharmakshetra-

> kurukshetra'

> > - Chapter 1*.

> >

> > Lord said we need to cultivate this body land. As Gitaji is

> consider to be

> > an essence of Vedas-Upanishads, I think it is ok to bring

examples

> from

> > other scriptures to support the sloka chosen from Gitaji.

> >

> > (Please *note*: provide related Gita Sloka 1st, support it with

> examples

> > from other scriptures if needed)

> > Please *discuss*...

> > 1) What is body, its nature?

> > 2) Can body be attached to anything?

> > 3) Is body subject to any pain or pleasure?

> > 4) What is world, its nature?

> > 5) Does material wealth carry any pleasure? Is it worth

attaching

> to?

> > 6) who shall we be attached to, if anybody/thing at all? Is

there

> a need

> > for us to be attached to anybody/thing? Why?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your participation.

> > Love.

> > always at Thy Feet worthy of worship

> >

>