Humble reflection: why don't we love God as it is?

September 9, 2006

Dear Self,

I most humbly present my views on why we don't love

God as it is:

If at all we love anything or any person ,it would

naturally be as it is. True love is never conditional.

So loving itself implies loving as it is. Shakespeare

rightly said, " With all Thy faults, I shall love

Thee. " So once we start loving really, it would

naturally be as it is, but our main problem is why we

don't love God?

Love is not a purely emotional thing for normal human

beings. Our most of loves are cognition-based. When we

" KNOW " that someone is rich,or knowledgeable or having

high position or is virtueous, then we start loving.

We love only that person whom we " KNOW " as having the

qualities which we value. Thus, KNOWLEDGE or COGNITION

plays great part in our feeling of love or getting

attracted to it. It is this Cognitive-part

of emotion which has been emphasised in modern

psychology too. Recently most popular and successful

approach to psycho-therapy is the Cognitive Approach

which roots all the psychological problems in our

wrong perceptions, wrong cognitions and wrong

interpretations of situations. And to treat these

psychological problems means correcting one's

cognitions or perceptions. This is exactly what is

known as RET-Rational Emotive Therapy of Ellis. In

short, like all our emotions , Love can also be said

to be first a conitive process and then it becomes

emotional. So to have True Love for God, we must Know

how Great, Atrracting, Caring and Loving , how

Intelligent and at same time how emotionally-deep,

Lord Himself is. We must " KNOW " Lord's great

personality thoroghly and in detail to develop love

for Him. To KNOW Lord thoroughly, we need to read or

hear His

Charitras (all that He has done for His devotees, How

He, The King of Infinite Universes, becomes just

Charioter for His Loved-one Arjuna, How He puts aside

all His Glories for Gopies, He even becomes barber,

takes eaten food, cleans and bathes Horses of Arjun,

How He protected Draupadi Etc.) from Bhagvatam,

Ramayan and Mahabharat. Reading or hearing the

Greatness of Lord (MAHATMYA)creates AWE for God and it

culminates into LOVE for God.

Secondly, Kalidas said, " Sangat Pranayah " . By being in

company of someone, love developes.In psychology also,

PROXIMITY is considered to be one of the most

important factor in development of infetuation, and

that is why, using this natural human psychology,

parents and society used to keep lovers apart for

extinguishing their feelings of love for eachother.

The same happens in case of our love for God also.

" What is this life, if not full of care, we have no

time to stand and stare. " In this over-busy life with

all our worldly priorities and so-called obligations,

we don't give time to BE with God, to enjoy His

PROXIMITY. Again, Shakespeare said, " She is full of

sound and furry, signifying nothing. " so we are full

of busy-schedules, signifying nothing. Dr.Shyam

rightly answered that we have time and so love also,

for the Unreal and no time and hence only, no love for

Lord which only is the real.

Why we don't give priority to God? Because, we do not

KNOW again, His worth. So KNOWING HIS GREATNESS IN

TRUE SENSE OF THE TERM KNOWING, ONLY CAN CULMINATE

INTO LOVE FOR GOD AS IT IS.

Finally, many times it is said We know the worth of

Lord but cannot practice. " Janami Dharmam na cha me

Pravritti, janami adharmam na cha me nivrittim " This

Duryodhan's citation is occasinally quoted as our

defence mechanism. But it is extremely

self-deceiving.We should remember that this is

Duryodhan's mentality.If we also have same feeling,

then we are also sharing duryodhan's personality,

which we will not like to accept. Actually no great

MEN or Saints have supported this human wickness. They

had great faith in human's will and Rationality which

only is the distiguishing feature between man and

animals. Socrates said " Virtue is Knowledge " . If man

would know something as good or worthy, it would

definitely reflect in his behaviour as virtue, and if

it is not reflected in behaviour , then definitely we

have not KNOWN its worth. The great saint of this

age, Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, also emphasised this

cognitive approach only. He has distinguished between

KNOWING and BELIEVING. According to him, knowing just

theoretically is not real Knowing. Real KNOWING is

BELIEVING. When knowledge becomes conviction, then it

naturally results into action. Swamiji's this

distiction of KNOWING and BELIEVING resolves the

apparent contradiction of Duryodhan's feeling and

Socrates' saying. Duryodhan's feeling applies to what

Swamiji calls KNOWING means, just verbal knowledge,

while Socrates' saying applies to real KNOWING,which

Swamiji calls BELIEVING, which naturally, without any

effort results in practice.

To sum up, as seekers we all want to love God as it

is, and for that we need to Know Lord's personality

totally through reading scriptuires and hearing great

saints. This would give PROXIMITY to LORD and finally

it would culminate into immense Love for God. The

criterion of whether or not we have developed true

Love for God,would be- according to Erich Fromm, the

first eminent psychologist to write scientifically on

the Psychology of Love in his famous book Art of

Loving- that in true love for God, we would be ready

to sacrifice all our profane priorities(not our real

duties)on the name of God.

May Lord give all of us HIS TRUE KNOWLEDGE AND TRUE

LOVE through His Unconditional Grace upon us.

Jay shri Krishna.

September 10, 2006

Priya sadhak , Loving on the condition of knowing is again conditional love, which according to you is not possible.So Go far beyond the limits of knowledge, buddhi, chetna, Ahamkar whatever the linguistic terms you Know or dont know. Your knowledge can be limited but love has no boundaries.Limitless without any reason,Do u get my point.I ask why? means I am asking reasons BUT I put it that we must switch for that un conditional love bound by aham in our own self.UNLEASH that TOns of love .TUU PYAR KA SAGAR HAI. Hari om Raja.achinta yajnik <achintay wrote: Dear Self,I most humbly present my views on why we don't loveGod as it is:If at all we love anything or any person ,it wouldnaturally be as it is. True love is never conditional.So loving itself implies loving as it is. Shakespearerightly said, "With all Thy faults, I shall loveThee." So once we start loving really, it wouldnaturally be as it is, but our main problem is why wedon't love God?Love is not a purely emotional thing for normal humanbeings. Our most of loves are cognition-based. When we"KNOW" that someone is rich,or knowledgeable or havinghigh position or is virtueous, then we start loving.We love only that person whom we "KNOW" as having thequalities which we value. Thus, KNOWLEDGE or COGNITIONplays great part in our feeling of love or gettingattracted to it. It is this Cognitive-partof emotion which

has been emphasised in modernpsychology too. Recently most popular and successfulapproach to psycho-therapy is the Cognitive Approachwhich roots all the psychological problems in ourwrong perceptions, wrong cognitions and wronginterpretations of situations. And to treat thesepsychological problems means correcting one'scognitions or perceptions. This is exactly what isknown as RET-Rational Emotive Therapy of Ellis. Inshort, like all our emotions , Love can also be saidto be first a conitive process and then it becomesemotional. So to have True Love for God, we must Knowhow Great, Atrracting, Caring and Loving , howIntelligent and at same time how emotionally-deep,Lord Himself is. We must "KNOW" Lord's greatpersonality thoroghly and in detail to develop lovefor Him. To KNOW Lord thoroughly, we need to read orhear HisCharitras (all that He has done for His devotees, HowHe, The King of Infinite

Universes, becomes justCharioter for His Loved-one Arjuna, How He puts asideall His Glories for Gopies, He even becomes barber,takes eaten food, cleans and bathes Horses of Arjun,How He protected Draupadi Etc.) from Bhagvatam,Ramayan and Mahabharat. Reading or hearing theGreatness of Lord (MAHATMYA)creates AWE for God and itculminates into LOVE for God.Secondly, Kalidas said, "Sangat Pranayah". By being incompany of someone, love developes.In psychology also,PROXIMITY is considered to be one of the mostimportant factor in development of infetuation, andthat is why, using this natural human psychology,parents and society used to keep lovers apart forextinguishing their feelings of love for eachother.The same happens in case of our love for God also."What is this life, if not full of care, we have notime to stand and stare." In this over-busy life withall our worldly priorities and so-called

obligations,we don't give time to BE with God, to enjoy HisPROXIMITY. Again, Shakespeare said, " She is full ofsound and furry, signifying nothing." so we are fullof busy-schedules, signifying nothing. Dr.Shyamrightly answered that we have time and so love also,for the Unreal and no time and hence only, no love forLord which only is the real.Why we don't give priority to God? Because, we do notKNOW again, His worth. So KNOWING HIS GREATNESS INTRUE SENSE OF THE TERM KNOWING, ONLY CAN CULMINATEINTO LOVE FOR GOD AS IT IS.Finally, many times it is said We know the worth ofLord but cannot practice. "Janami Dharmam na cha mePravritti, janami adharmam na cha me nivrittim" ThisDuryodhan's citation is occasinally quoted as ourdefence mechanism. But it is extremelyself-deceiving.We should remember that this isDuryodhan's mentality.If we also have same feeling,then we are also sharing duryodhan's

personality,which we will not like to accept. Actually no greatMEN or Saints have supported this human wickness. Theyhad great faith in human's will and Rationality whichonly is the distiguishing feature between man andanimals. Socrates said "Virtue is Knowledge". If manwould know something as good or worthy, it woulddefinitely reflect in his behaviour as virtue, and if it is not reflected in behaviour , then definitely wehave not KNOWN its worth. The great saint of thisage, Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, also emphasised thiscognitive approach only. He has distinguished betweenKNOWING and BELIEVING. According to him, knowing justtheoretically is not real Knowing. Real KNOWING isBELIEVING. When knowledge becomes conviction, then itnaturally results into action. Swamiji's thisdistiction of KNOWING and BELIEVING resolves theapparent contradiction of Duryodhan's feeling andSocrates' saying. Duryodhan's

feeling applies to whatSwamiji calls KNOWING means, just verbal knowledge,while Socrates' saying applies to real KNOWING,whichSwamiji calls BELIEVING, which naturally, without anyeffort results in practice.To sum up, as seekers we all want to love God as itis, and for that we need to Know Lord's personalitytotally through reading scriptuires and hearing greatsaints. This would give PROXIMITY to LORD and finallyit would culminate into immense Love for God. Thecriterion of whether or not we have developed trueLove for God,would be- according to Erich Fromm, thefirst eminent psychologist to write scientifically onthe Psychology of Love in his famous book Art ofLoving- that in true love for God, we would be readyto sacrifice all our profane priorities(not our realduties)on the name of God.May Lord give all of us HIS TRUE KNOWLEDGE AND TRUELOVE through His Unconditional Grace upon us.Jay shri Krishna.

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September 11, 2006

Dear Raja, Mishra ji, Avadhoot ji, Sadhak ji and many others in the group,

Love and Love alone....

Let me reproduce what I read and what I have on LOVE for you all to preserve and cherish. Here it is. Love and Love alone.... P. Gopi Krishna

Your Love Is Without Limits

Can You Measure the Limits of Your Love? Try!

Perhaps, your love is limited to the person you live with, or the members of your family, and you think you have known its limits, and carefully measured its extent and range. Wait a few moments: it spreads into the six thousand and fifty employees you have at the factory.

As you drive through the vast space of receding horizons, and behold the Nature below, you find your love spread into wide Beauty that mantles Nature.

Now you think you know the limits of your love. Wait a little. As you sit on your chair with that tranquil mind and that compassionate heart, you find your love flowing, in spite of yourself, to all creatures great and small. Something in you is concerned with wishing welfare, peace, happiness to all creatures, even to the invisible ones like bacteria. All the creation is enveloped in your tenderness and affection. Can you measure your love, and be sure of its real extent? Not yet, wait and see! There are moments in your life of expanding love when you suddenly feel the surge of love for that which made possible this infinite creation, these boundless stretches of beautiful space illuminated by countless stars, and for that Grand Being which subsists in you as the voice of conscience superior to the voice of reason, learning and wisdom. You wonder, and that wonder renders your heart of love embrace all of the Reality that the Divine is. Where are the limits to the Divine? If there are no limits to the Divine, there are no limits to your love. You are the Centre of all Love, of Love immeasurable and unfathomable.

God is illimitable Love. Were not God Love, truth would have no substance, beauty no reality, joy no existence and life no meaning. Unconditioned Love created the creative essence in you, your indestructible existence, with illimitable Love. Therefore, behind those shifting scenes of attraction and repulsion, good and bad, likes and dislikes, you are boundless Love. Recover your centre in Love. Integrate the polarities of your life, the complexities of your mind, and warring elements of your personality by and in Love.

How do you account for the love of knowledge, the love of beauty, the love of power, the love of freedom, the love of joy, the love of peace, the love of goodness, the love of Truth, the love of service and sacrifice, if there were not in your inner being, the living and inextinguishable flame of Love that God is?

What is our interest in life, our clinging to life, our delight in life, our capacity to create, to possess, to preserve, to protect, to strive and to enrich ourselves and others, but the Love that God is? What is progress in science, development in industry, expansion in knowledge, exercise in music, and everything beautiful, noble, good in life but Love in action?

One may deny God, but none denies Love, and since God is Love, none can deny God. God we may not have seen, but Love in expression we see; and, since we see Love, we have to that extent, and in that manner, seen God. We may not have felt and experienced God, but we feel and experience Love, and by that very logic, feel and experience God who is nothing but Love, and Love is everything and more. Grow in Love, and Love will reveal to you its essential being and its entire face - God.

Send your love on the wings of the wind that is blowing. Float your love on the waves of the ether that are flowing. Charge with love the breath you are exhaling in order it may convey by becoming one with the universal air, love's impact to the universe. Thoughts travel faster than light: therefore, make them the quickest and fastest bearers of your love who would encircle our planet earth with majestic rings of Love, as the inspiring blue rings encircle the planet Saturn. As you give a tea, or a book, or an article to others, so can the feelings be given to others. Give, then, the feelings of Love. The more you give them, the more they multiply, and the more you can give. You are a centre of God's Love, a point of His infinite Power, a boundless pool of His Light. Be as such. Live as such. Think as such. Act as such. Glory to you.

Science has outgrown materialism, and strikes us with shame when we talk of the table as hard and real. A dead universe ours is not. It is living, dynamic, responsive. In this universe, look with Love, Love appears everywhere. See with the peace of Love, peace is experienced everywhere. React to everything with the joy of Love, joy is poured back into you from all sides and from everything.

Whatever 'God' is, or is not, and 'God' himself may not be; but, Love is, was, will always be, and Love is God. Death of God the twentieth century theological revisionists speak of, but who can speak of the death of Love? For, the speech itself is impossible were there not life in the speaker, and life is born of Love, bears Love, and is fulfilled in Love.

Technology today can go as far as the moon, but your love and its transforming impacts shoot beyond the farthest star. The light from the stars takes millions, and millions, and millions of years to reach us; and the light from some stars has not yet reached us. Yet such is the wonder of your love, that it can reach all the stars within the twinkling of an eye. You have only to look, and your love is there among stars, embracing and enveloping them.

Know you not that you are the microcosm containing in yourself the whole of macrocosm? This is the mathematic and logic of Love. It puzzles human reason, baffles scientists, riddles mathematicians. They ask you, how can the greater, the macrocosm, be in you, the microcosm, the smaller. As an answer, ask them to be a little more bold and adventurous in discovery and ask your love, without which their own intelligence loses all its lustre and power of perception. Love unites millions of things and persons and worlds into one. It reduces the infinite variety and the warring multiplicity to the harmony of the One Absolute that it itself is. Love is the highest Knowledge. Love is the greatest Science and the mother of all sciences and arts. Love is the ineffable Beauty and Life eternal.

And, during the day, when the stars are not visible to the conditioned vision of the most realistic, most empirical, most scientific and down-to-the-earth physical eyes, you have only to think of them in love, and your love sees them, reaches them, within moments. Who, and what, can condition your love? Talk no more of measuring your love. Let it remain illimitable, the supreme peace-maker, the supreme joy-giver, the beauty of beauties, the supreme psychologist, the supreme master, the scientist of scientists, the sage of sages, the mystic of mystics, the supreme technician, architect and wonder-worker.

Grasp God in love; a love that is wider than the skies that you see with your physical eyes; a love that is denied to nothing that is created; a love that could smile with the flowers, and with the leaves; a love that can become one in sympathy with the stars; a love that could discern and converse with His Presence in the empty space; a love that could find a friend and a beloved in all that is beheld by the physical eyes, the unlimited, unconditioned, unfailing love for all creatures great and small; the love that is in tune with the wondrous existence in the stones, pebbles, and twigs. Such love liberates our consciousness and soul, renders us exceedingly sensitive to God's all-vivifying Presence. When our whole being throbs with this love, we have God-Experience here and now.

On 9/10/06, achinta yajnik <achintay wrote:

Dear Self,I most humbly present my views on why we don't loveGod as it is:If at all we love anything or any person ,it wouldnaturally be as it is. True love is never conditional.So loving itself implies loving as it is. Shakespeare

rightly said, " With all Thy faults, I shall loveThee. " So once we start loving really, it wouldnaturally be as it is, but our main problem is why wedon't love God?Love is not a purely emotional thing for normal human

beings. Our most of loves are cognition-based. When we " KNOW " that someone is rich,or knowledgeable or havinghigh position or is virtueous, then we start loving.We love only that person whom we " KNOW " as having the

qualities which we value. Thus, KNOWLEDGE or COGNITIONplays great part in our feeling of love or gettingattracted to it. It is this Cognitive-partof emotion which has been emphasised in modernpsychology too. Recently most popular and successful

approach to psycho-therapy is the Cognitive Approachwhich roots all the psychological problems in ourwrong perceptions, wrong cognitions and wronginterpretations of situations. And to treat thesepsychological problems means correcting one's

cognitions or perceptions. This is exactly what isknown as RET-Rational Emotive Therapy of Ellis. Inshort, like all our emotions , Love can also be saidto be first a conitive process and then it becomes

emotional. So to have True Love for God, we must Knowhow Great, Atrracting, Caring and Loving , howIntelligent and at same time how emotionally-deep,Lord Himself is. We must " KNOW " Lord's greatpersonality thoroghly and in detail to develop love

for Him. To KNOW Lord thoroughly, we need to read orhear HisCharitras (all that He has done for His devotees, HowHe, The King of Infinite Universes, becomes justCharioter for His Loved-one Arjuna, How He puts aside

all His Glories for Gopies, He even becomes barber,takes eaten food, cleans and bathes Horses of Arjun,How He protected Draupadi Etc.) from Bhagvatam,Ramayan and Mahabharat. Reading or hearing theGreatness of Lord (MAHATMYA)creates AWE for God and it

culminates into LOVE for God.Secondly, Kalidas said, " Sangat Pranayah " . By being incompany of someone, love developes.In psychology also,PROXIMITY is considered to be one of the mostimportant factor in development of infetuation, and

that is why, using this natural human psychology,parents and society used to keep lovers apart forextinguishing their feelings of love for eachother.The same happens in case of our love for God also. " What is this life, if not full of care, we have no

time to stand and stare. " In this over-busy life withall our worldly priorities and so-called obligations,we don't give time to BE with God, to enjoy HisPROXIMITY. Again, Shakespeare said, " She is full of

sound and furry, signifying nothing. " so we are fullof busy-schedules, signifying nothing. Dr.Shyamrightly answered that we have time and so love also,for the Unreal and no time and hence only, no love for

Lord which only is the real.Why we don't give priority to God? Because, we do notKNOW again, His worth. So KNOWING HIS GREATNESS INTRUE SENSE OF THE TERM KNOWING, ONLY CAN CULMINATEINTO LOVE FOR GOD AS IT IS.

Finally, many times it is said We know the worth ofLord but cannot practice. " Janami Dharmam na cha mePravritti, janami adharmam na cha me nivrittim " ThisDuryodhan's citation is occasinally quoted as our

defence mechanism. But it is extremelyself-deceiving.We should remember that this isDuryodhan's mentality.If we also have same feeling,then we are also sharing duryodhan's personality,which we will not like to accept. Actually no great

MEN or Saints have supported this human wickness. Theyhad great faith in human's will and Rationality whichonly is the distiguishing feature between man andanimals. Socrates said " Virtue is Knowledge " . If man

would know something as good or worthy, it woulddefinitely reflect in his behaviour as virtue, and if it is not reflected in behaviour , then definitely wehave not KNOWN its worth. The great saint of this

age, Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, also emphasised thiscognitive approach only. He has distinguished betweenKNOWING and BELIEVING. According to him, knowing justtheoretically is not real Knowing. Real KNOWING is

BELIEVING. When knowledge becomes conviction, then itnaturally results into action. Swamiji's thisdistiction of KNOWING and BELIEVING resolves theapparent contradiction of Duryodhan's feeling andSocrates' saying. Duryodhan's feeling applies to what

Swamiji calls KNOWING means, just verbal knowledge,while Socrates' saying applies to real KNOWING,whichSwamiji calls BELIEVING, which naturally, without anyeffort results in practice.To sum up, as seekers we all want to love God as it

is, and for that we need to Know Lord's personalitytotally through reading scriptuires and hearing greatsaints. This would give PROXIMITY to LORD and finallyit would culminate into immense Love for God. The

criterion of whether or not we have developed trueLove for God,would be- according to Erich Fromm, thefirst eminent psychologist to write scientifically onthe Psychology of Love in his famous book Art of

Loving- that in true love for God, we would be readyto sacrifice all our profane priorities(not our realduties)on the name of God.May Lord give all of us HIS TRUE KNOWLEDGE AND TRUELOVE through His Unconditional Grace upon us.

Jay shri Krishna.

-- Paritala Gopi Krishna

September 11, 2006

Loving All,

Pranam.

I agree with everybody's comments. One has to start from somewhere before it becomes unconditional... We had good discussion in past also about this topic, please see message # 136 from the archive:

/message/136

Thanks.

Love always,

at Thy Loving Feet

On 9/10/06, raja gurdasani <muhurmuhu wrote:

Priya sadhak ,

Loving on the condition of knowing is again conditional love, which according to you is not possible.So Go far beyond the limits of knowledge, buddhi, chetna, Ahamkar whatever the linguistic terms you Know or dont know. Your knowledge can be limited but love has no boundaries.Limitless without any reason,Do u get my point.I ask why? means I am asking reasons BUT I put it that we must switch for that un conditional love bound by aham in our own self.UNLEASH that TOns of love .TUU PYAR KA SAGAR HAI.

Hari om

Raja.

achinta yajnik <achintay

wrote: