Fwd: Let's expand our horizon w/Gitaji - how 2 b dettached: surrender-liberation? (6 of 8 emails)

September 19, 2006

According to Moderatorji's request, I am resending...---------- Forwarded message ----------Manjula Patel <

manjumaaAug 27, 2006 1:01 AMLet's expand our horizon w/Gitaji - how 2 b dettached: surrender-liberation? (6 of 8 emails) <

>

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

We have very good discussions going on with various questions asked in this group. Thanks to all for their participation and the Moderator for facilitation.

We all say and agree that we need to be detached but the key concern is 'HOW?', isn't it? To address various topics of detachment I have divided them into 8 emails so we can discuss them individually. I have also tried to provide Gita sloka or chapter or a term/word used that have addressed them but Gitaji has lot more to offer...!!! I am a strong believer that the RIGHT UNDERSTANDING is the ONLY way that can lead us to true and deeper level of detachment. So let's expand our horizon together with Gitaji and supportive examples where applicable. Let's pour out our understanding and experiences on how to be truly detached with love & compassion - the true application of Gitaji in our life.

Let's truly understand God's message in Chapter 18 (answers can b supported by slokas from other chapters too, e.g., Chapter 11)

(Please note: provide related Gita Sloka 1st, support it with examples from other scriptures if needed)

Please discuss...

1) What is surrender? What is liberation? Are they the same?

2) Do you think the liberation leads to total surrender OR the surrender leads to liberation? How?

3) Do you think the knowledge leads to liberation OR the liberation gives the knowledge? How? 4) Do you think the surrender brings knowledge OR the knowledge helps to surrender? How?

5) Do you think it is good to desire liberation OR should we be detached from the desire for liberation?

6) Surrender, Knowledge & /or liberation, if at all, what should be truly our life goal? Why?

7) Do we have to have a life goal? Can we just not accept whatever, whenever God has to offer? Why not?

8) Who is actually seeking liberation?

9) Liberation from what?

10) Does liberation even exist?

Thanks in advance for your participation.

Love.

always at Thy Liberating Feet

September 19, 2006

1) What is surrender? What is liberation? Are they the same?

At the beginning stage both are different. Let us understand what is surrender and liberation. Surrender means to come to the stage of

svarupa sthithi, i.e Jiva's constitutional position or it's original state. that is Jiva is part and parcel of God and his duty is to serve God with Love and devotion without any expectation and without interruption. that can be happened either in the material world or Spiritual world. then that jiva is completely

surrendered.

Liberation, there are five kinds of liberations mentioned. we should know which kind of liberation we are talking about. they are as

Sayujya, Saroopya, Salokya, Samipya and Srasti. these are the liberations. It depends on the Jiva's desire, like how to associate with God and be happy.

But at the fag end of the discussion, we can conclude that the full surrender it self is the Liberation. why? when Jiva surrenders and renders service to Supreme with love and devotion, then he is already associating with God and he is in liberated stage. Generally, according to Mayavada philosophy, liberation is Sayujya mukti. but we need to under stand according to BG 2.12,

na tv evaaham jaatu naasamna tvam neme janaadhiphana caiva na bhavishyamaha

sarve vayam atah param

As Lord Says,

Translation: Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

that means both Jiva and Eshwara are two different entities and they are existing individually eternally. if some jiva wants to merge (Sayujya) with Supreme

then the whole purpose of creation of God is disturbed but Lord is so merciful that though he is not liked the idea of merging, still he allows some Jivas to

merge with him. but as there is no happiness (cit) or engagement of the Jiva Sayujya, again he has to come out and fall down to the material world. why? the Nature of the soul (Jiva) is Sat cit and ananda. the Cit is missing and that is the incompatible situation of the soul.

I am just trying to put whatever I understand, so please don't be offended if there is any thing against your views. I am trying to repeat whatever my spiritual

master taught to me.

I will try to answer the other questions tomorrow.

haribol

BGD

2) Do you think the liberation leads to total surrender OR the surrender leads to liberation? How?

3) Do you think the knowledge leads to liberation OR the liberation gives the knowledge? How? 4) Do you think the surrender brings knowledge OR the knowledge helps to surrender? How?

5) Do you think it is good to desire liberation OR should we be detached from the desire for liberation?

6) Surrender, Knowledge & /or liberation, if at all, what should be truly our life goal? Why?

7) Do we have to have a life goal? Can we just not accept whatever, whenever God has to offer? Why not?

8) Who is actually seeking liberation?

9) Liberation from what?

10) Does liberation even exist?

-

Manjula Patel

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:36 PM

Fwd: Let's expand our horizon w/Gitaji - how 2 b dettached: surrender-liberation? (6 of 8 emails)

According to Moderatorji's request, I am resending...---------- Forwarded message ----------Manjula Patel < manjumaaAug 27, 2006 1:01 AMLet's expand our horizon w/Gitaji - how 2 b dettached: surrender-liberation? (6 of 8 emails) < >

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

We have very good discussions going on with various questions asked in this group. Thanks to all for their participation and the Moderator for facilitation.

We all say and agree that we need to be detached but the key concern is 'HOW?', isn't it? To address various topics of detachment I have divided them into 8 emails so we can discuss them individually. I have also tried to provide Gita sloka or chapter or a term/word used that have addressed them but Gitaji has lot more to offer...!!! I am a strong believer that the RIGHT UNDERSTANDING is the ONLY way that can lead us to true and deeper level of detachment. So let's expand our horizon together with Gitaji and supportive examples where applicable. Let's pour out our understanding and experiences on how to be truly detached with love & compassion - the true application of Gitaji in our life.

Let's truly understand God's message in Chapter 18 (answers can b supported by slokas from other chapters too, e.g., Chapter 11)

(Please note: provide related Gita Sloka 1st, support it with examples from other scriptures if needed)

Please discuss...

1) What is surrender? What is liberation? Are they the same?

2) Do you think the liberation leads to total surrender OR the surrender leads to liberation? How?

3) Do you think the knowledge leads to liberation OR the liberation gives the knowledge? How? 4) Do you think the surrender brings knowledge OR the knowledge helps to surrender? How?

5) Do you think it is good to desire liberation OR should we be detached from the desire for liberation?

6) Surrender, Knowledge & /or liberation, if at all, what should be truly our life goal? Why?

7) Do we have to have a life goal? Can we just not accept whatever, whenever God has to offer? Why not?

8) Who is actually seeking liberation?

9) Liberation from what?

10) Does liberation even exist?

Thanks in advance for your participation.

Love.

always at Thy Liberating Feet

September 22, 2006

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

Thanks for sharing your understanding, it means a lot... More you share more I learn :-)

I am a life long student/learner so there is nothing to offend rather it gives opportunity to understand different perspectives and help me expand my horizon!

There is no right or wrong discussion as we are all in the continuous process of evolution, we share different angles thus constantly help each other...

Also please share your thoughts about 'bhakti' too. The question of bhakti-prem is covered in email where relationships & emotions are discussed (3 of 8 email); I believe surrender and bhakti are one and the same!

With thanks humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

On 9/19/06, Brahma Valaboju <brahmacv

> wrote:

1) What is surrender? What is liberation? Are they the same?

At the beginning stage both are different. Let us understand what is surrender and liberation. Surrender means to come to the stage of

svarupa sthithi, i.e Jiva's constitutional position or it's original state. that is Jiva is part and parcel of God and his duty is to serve God with Love and devotion without any expectation and without interruption. that can be happened either in the material world or Spiritual world. then that jiva is completely

surrendered.

Liberation, there are five kinds of liberations mentioned. we should know which kind of liberation we are talking about. they are as

Sayujya, Saroopya, Salokya, Samipya and Srasti. these are the liberations. It depends on the Jiva's desire, like how to associate with God and be happy.

But at the fag end of the discussion, we can conclude that the full surrender it self is the Liberation. why? when Jiva surrenders and renders service to Supreme with love and devotion, then he is already associating with God and he is in liberated stage. Generally, according to Mayavada philosophy, liberation is Sayujya mukti. but we need to under stand according to BG 2.12,

na tv evaaham jaatu naasamna tvam neme janaadhiphana caiva na bhavishyamaha

sarve vayam atah param

As Lord Says,

Translation: Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.

that means both Jiva and Eshwara are two different entities and they are existing individually eternally. if some jiva wants to merge (Sayujya) with Supreme

then the whole purpose of creation of God is disturbed but Lord is so merciful that though he is not liked the idea of merging, still he allows some Jivas to

merge with him. but as there is no happiness (cit) or engagement of the Jiva Sayujya, again he has to come out and fall down to the material world. why? the Nature of the soul (Jiva) is Sat cit and ananda. the Cit is missing and that is the incompatible situation of the soul.

I am just trying to put whatever I understand, so please don't be offended if there is any thing against your views. I am trying to repeat whatever my spiritual

master taught to me.

I will try to answer the other questions tomorrow.

haribol

BGD

2) Do you think the liberation leads to total surrender OR the surrender leads to liberation? How?

3) Do you think the knowledge leads to liberation OR the liberation gives the knowledge? How? 4) Do you think the surrender brings knowledge OR the knowledge helps to surrender? How?

5) Do you think it is good to desire liberation OR should we be detached from the desire for liberation?

6) Surrender, Knowledge & /or liberation, if at all, what should be truly our life goal? Why?

7) Do we have to have a life goal? Can we just not accept whatever, whenever God has to offer? Why not?

8) Who is actually seeking liberation?

9) Liberation from what?

10) Does liberation even exist?

-

Manjula Patel

Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:36 PM

Fwd: Let's expand our horizon w/Gitaji - how 2 b dettached: surrender-liberation? (6 of 8 emails)

According to Moderatorji's request, I am resending...---------- Forwarded message ----------Manjula Patel <

manjumaaAug 27, 2006 1:01 AMLet's expand our horizon w/Gitaji - how 2 b dettached: surrender-liberation? (6 of 8 emails) <

>

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

We have very good discussions going on with various questions asked in this group. Thanks to all for their participation and the Moderator for facilitation.

We all say and agree that we need to be detached but the key concern is 'HOW?', isn't it? To address various topics of detachment I have divided them into 8 emails so we can discuss them individually. I have also tried to provide Gita sloka or chapter or a term/word used that have addressed them but Gitaji has lot more to offer...!!! I am a strong believer that the RIGHT UNDERSTANDING is the ONLY way that can lead us to true and deeper level of detachment. So let's expand our horizon together with Gitaji and supportive examples where applicable. Let's pour out our understanding and experiences on how to be truly detached with love & compassion - the true application of Gitaji in our life.

Let's truly understand God's message in Chapter 18 (answers can b supported by slokas from other chapters too, e.g., Chapter 11)

(Please note: provide related Gita Sloka 1st, support it with examples from other scriptures if needed)

Please discuss...

1) What is surrender? What is liberation? Are they the same?

2) Do you think the liberation leads to total surrender OR the surrender leads to liberation? How?

3) Do you think the knowledge leads to liberation OR the liberation gives the knowledge? How? 4) Do you think the surrender brings knowledge OR the knowledge helps to surrender? How?

5) Do you think it is good to desire liberation OR should we be detached from the desire for liberation?

6) Surrender, Knowledge & /or liberation, if at all, what should be truly our life goal? Why?

7) Do we have to have a life goal? Can we just not accept whatever, whenever God has to offer? Why not?

8) Who is actually seeking liberation?

9) Liberation from what?

10) Does liberation even exist?

Thanks in advance for your participation.

Love.

always at Thy Liberating Feet