query

[Guest guest]

Sir,

Is it necessary to presuppose the existence of an immortal self/soul?Can we not

simply accept the fact/the situation that this bodily form is perishable and be

comfortable with it?

Regards.

Bhave

 

 

--

 

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[Guest guest]

, " prakash bhave " <phbhave wrote:

>

> Sir,

> Is it necessary to presuppose the existence of an immortal

self/soul?Can we not simply accept the fact/the situation that this

bodily form is perishable and be comfortable with it?

> Regards.

> Bhave

 

The way I understand is: One doesn't have a choice of presupposition of the

existence of Self-Atman because one cannot even ask question like this if there

is no Self-Atman-Consciousness. In otherwords only a Conscious Being can ask

such a question. This Conscious Being is generally assumed to be the body-mind

organism which eventually dies, but is it true? Can dead person think, feel or

act? One has to see very clearly that Atman/soul is this Consciousness-Life that

is with us all the time, never leaves us and above all is not personal. It

perceives all objects/experiences which together constitute our world by

operating our body-mind organisms. Our own bodies are objects of perception made

possible by this Consciousness!

Now the difficulty is one cannot see this way and imagines Atma as

something far and apart from us and difficult to experience! We are

so much identified with Body-mind organism which is mortal for sure.

However if one makes open minded inquiry, plays devil's advocate then one will

see a glimpse of one's true self as this Immortal and

Impersonal SELF or Consciousness which is also at the same time

Existence-Knowingness-Bliss(Sat-Chit-Ananda)!

This is experiencially with us all the time as self evident feeling

of " I AM " . One cannot deny one's own existence, right? one's own body-mind gets

denied as in deep sleep but not one's own existence.

Now if one is comfortable with perishing body without any suffering,

not afraid of death, doesn't make any issue/conflict then can we not

say that one lives as if one is this soul? Once this happens, the

Immortality of Self will be experienced by Self's Grace!

It is easier to accept death etc if we know who we are than otherwise. We know

body dies(although one never experience one's death) but how can we know for

sure that THAT which perceives thru us dies? Like an electricity that lights

bulbs, and other gedgets, tools etc cannot cease to exist when these tools don't

work or bulbs blow out. It works thru other gadgets even as Consciousness lights

all other bodies.

On my part I try to live from this perspective as if I am not this

person, limited being with separate body-mind.

[Guest guest]

This conversation is really engaging.

If I may share the learning from my master, an easy way to build conviction about eternal reality is to pray for experiencing it.

The THAT is not a number, THAT is ORIGINAL EXPERIENTIAL STATE where knowing, communicating, expressing all are happening.

So mind's role is limited.

Thank you for creating my opportunity to express.

TEJSEWAK

 

 

On 11/9/06, pratapbhatt <pratapbhatt wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

, " prakash bhave " <phbhave wrote:

>> Sir,> Is it necessary to presuppose the existence of an immortal self/soul?Can we not simply accept the fact/the situation that this bodily form is perishable and be comfortable with it?

> Regards.> BhaveThe way I understand is: One doesn't have a choice of presupposition of the existence of Self-Atman because one cannot even ask question like this if there is no Self-Atman-Consciousness. In otherwords only a Conscious Being can ask such a question. This Conscious Being is generally assumed to be the body-mind organism which eventually dies, but is it true? Can dead person think, feel or act? One has to see very clearly that Atman/soul is this Consciousness-Life that is with us all the time, never leaves us and above all is not personal. It perceives all objects/experiences which together constitute our world by operating our body-mind organisms. Our own bodies are objects of perception made possible by this Consciousness! Now the difficulty is one cannot see this way and imagines Atma as something far and apart from us and difficult to experience! We are so much identified with Body-mind organism which is mortal for sure. However if one makes open minded inquiry, plays devil's advocate then one will see a glimpse of one's true self as this Immortal and Impersonal SELF or Consciousness which is also at the same time Existence-Knowingness-Bliss(Sat-Chit-Ananda)! This is experiencially with us all the time as self evident feeling of " I AM " . One cannot deny one's own existence, right? one's own body-mind gets denied as in deep sleep but not one's own existence. Now if one is comfortable with perishing body without any suffering, not afraid of death, doesn't make any issue/conflict then can we not say that one lives as if one is this soul? Once this happens, the Immortality of Self will be experienced by Self's Grace!

It is easier to accept death etc if we know who we are than otherwise. We know body dies(although one never experience one's death) but how can we know for sure that THAT which perceives thru us dies? Like an electricity that lights bulbs, and other gedgets, tools etc cannot cease to exist when these tools don't work or bulbs blow out. It works thru other gadgets even as Consciousness lights all other bodies. On my part I try to live from this perspective as if I am not this person, limited being with separate body-mind. -- Anup WadhwaDirector

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