My Query About the Sub-Sects

[Guest guest]

I am having some queries about the caste system. According to my knowledge God has created the 4 divisions of society as Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudras. This he has done with respect to the work done by the people. But he never told any one particular group as the highest in any of his 4 vedas. If this is the case, then how the caste got diversified into so many sub sects with each one claiming that they are the highest. WHAT IS GITA SAY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE CASTE SYSTEM? If I am hating someone and I am destroying one's faith, will God forgive me if I do poojas (prayer) and rituals? I see a lot of people are doing faulty things and still by doing the prayer (pooja), they are happy. How are those people going to be punished?Thanks and Regards, R.Shyam Kumar.

[Guest guest]

As far as I know from saints is that Gita says that according to the inclinations, interests and duties, human beings fall in to four categories. There is no mention of sub sects. Lord has ordered to consider all the equal and worthy of respect, and all capable of achieving great heights on surrendering everything to God. In fact Gita goes one step further and say that we should be equanimous towards even saints and sinner, although we should follow saint and be indifferent to sinner but both have the same Lord in them and should be respected as such and so all the animals.

 

Hating someone, or destroying one's faith is like hating God Himself, and irrespective of object of hatred, hatred itself is enclosing and hindering tendency. However, hatred is transient and would cease to exist as soon as we turn to God. The real effect of ritual and worship is only if there is right intention, means seeing one's fault and not indulging in further, completely wiping out of hatred. More than trying to control the hatred and trying to suppress it, or thinking about the consequences, we should try to understand how it comes in to existence, and how limiting and hindering it is in spiritual fulfillment. Once the shortcoming of hatred is known, it is wiped out and heart is innocent in front of Lord, Lord always takes care of all the sins.

But that is just what I feel to be true.

On 11/9/06, R. Shyam Kumar <shyam_elcom wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am having some queries about the caste system. According to my knowledge God has created the 4 divisions of society as Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudras. This he has done with respect to the work done by the people. But he never told any one particular group as the highest in any of his 4 vedas.

 

If this is the case, then how the caste got diversified into so many sub sects with each one claiming that they are the highest. WHAT IS GITA SAY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE CASTE SYSTEM?

If I am hating someone and I am destroying one's faith, will God forgive me if I do poojas (prayer) and rituals? I see a lot of people are doing faulty things and still by doing the prayer (pooja), they are happy. How are those people going to be punished?

 

Thanks and Regards, R.Shyam Kumar.

[Guest guest]

This is a very pertinent question here. It is a fact stated by the Lord in the Gita, chapter 4, verse 13 that according to a man's 'guna' and 'karma' he is designated as a 'brahmana' or 'kshatryia', etc. NOWHERE does he say that according to your father's rank you are to be designated. This jati-karma or bogus caste system is a sour invention by some Indians to bluff there way through life. If a 'brahmana' engages in the service of others he is not a brahmana. If a brahmana does not know Brahman and does not engage in shastric study, poojas, and teaching he is not a brahmana. And especially if he is not qualified by being in the mode of goodness, he cannot be called a brahmana. Those who are situated below the standard of 'sattva guna' are the non-brahmanas. Krishna also says that to follow anothers path is very dangerous. If you are not a brahmana by your very nature and work then to presume so and to lead others to accept

you as such is courting disaster. Gita , chapter 3, verse 35 says that it is preferable to act truthfully according to your actual position, even if you cannot perform it perfectly.So, to reform those who claim to be what they are not, is only possible if we know the nature of the three 'gunas'. Ultimately, we should even transcend the mode of goodness, 'sattva-guna' and become transcendental to all bondage of the material nature, thus coming to the level of 'suddha sattva'.Hari bol,Avadhoot"R. Shyam Kumar" <shyam_elcom wrote: I am having some queries about the caste system. According to my knowledge God has created the 4 divisions of society as Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudras. This he has done with respect to the work done by the people. But he never told any one particular group as the highest in any of his 4 vedas. If this is the case, then how the caste got diversified into so many sub sects with each one claiming that they are the highest. WHAT IS GITA SAY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE CASTE SYSTEM? If I am hating someone and I am destroying one's faith, will God forgive me if I do poojas (prayer) and rituals? I see a lot of people are doing faulty things and still by doing the prayer (pooja), they are happy. How are those people going to be punished?Thanks and Regards, R.Shyam Kumar.

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[Guest guest]

A MAN WHO ENGAGES IN STUDYING GITA AND PERFORM PUJA AND HAVE ONLY DUTY

BOUND NATURE IS A MAN OF " GOODNESS " . LORD SAYS: DEVOTION TO

KARMA, SACRIFICE FOR THE NEEDY,COMPASSION,EMPATHY AND FORGIVENESS ARE THE

NATURE/QUALITY OF A " BRAHMAN " .IT IS NOT CASTE BASED BUT NATURE OF THE SOUL.IN

ANY FORM OF LIFE OR ANY SERVICE RENDERED WITHOUT ANY DESIRE

FOR FULFILLMENT IN ANY PROFESSION BEING PRACTISED BY THE MAN IS THE NATURE OF

A BRAHMAN BECAUSE DEVOTION IS SUPREME.

GURU VASISHIST SAYS " AT THE OUTSET OF EACH OR ANY ENDEAVOUR ONE MUST THINK OF THE

CONSEQUENCES THAT WOULD BE OF IT " BUT IN THIS CENTURY IT IS SEEN THAT SOMEBODY

WHO PRACTISES OR TRY TO FOLLOW THE ABOVE FACES NUMEROUS DIFFICULTIES. IT IS NOT

KNOWN WHY WRONGS ARE APPRECIATED /REWARDED TO THOSE WHO ARE CLOSE TO THE

POWERFUL AND RICH IN OUR COUNTRY.IN ACTION NO WORD OF A BRAHMAN IS FOLLOWED.

ONLY DISCRIMINATIONS BASED ON CAST,LANGUAGE AND ORIGIN ARE PRACTICES BY THOSE IN

POWERFUL POSITIONS.WHEN THE ANARCHY AND RUTHLESSNESS SHALL END SO THAT OUR

COUNTRY SHALL AWAKE TO BECOME BEST WHERE HAPPINESS AND GOODNESS, CHARITY AND

GREAT PHILOSOPHY SHALL RULE WITH BROTHERHOOD AND EMPATHY.

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

 

As far as I know from saints is that Gita says that according to the inclinations, interests and duties, human beings fall in to four categories. There is no mention of sub sects. Lord has ordered to consider all the equal and worthy of respect, and all capable of achieving great heights on surrendering everything to God. In fact Gita goes one step further and say that we should be equanimous towards even saints and sinner, although we should follow saint and be indifferent to sinner but both have the same Lord in them and should be respected as such and so all the animals.

Hating someone, or destroying one's faith is like hating God Himself, and irrespective of object of hatred, hatred itself is enclosing and hindering tendency. However, hatred is transient and would cease to exist as soon as we turn to God. The real effect of ritual and worship is only if there is right intention, means seeing one's fault and not indulging in further, completely wiping out of hatred. More than trying to control the hatred and trying to suppress it, or thinking about the consequences, we should try to understand how it comes in to existence, and how limiting and hindering it is in spiritual fulfillment. Once the shortcoming of hatred is known, it is wiped out and heart is innocent in front of Lord, Lord always takes care of all the sins.

But that is just what I feel to be true.

On 11/9/06, R. Shyam Kumar <shyam_elcom (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I am having some queries about the caste system. According to my knowledge God has created the 4 divisions of society as Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudras. This he has done with respect to the work done by the people. But he never told any one particular group as the highest in any of his 4 vedas.

 

If this is the case, then how the caste got diversified into so many sub sects with each one claiming that they are the highest. WHAT IS GITA SAY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE CASTE SYSTEM?

If I am hating someone and I am destroying one's faith, will God forgive me if I do poojas (prayer) and rituals? I see a lot of people are doing faulty things and still by doing the prayer (pooja), they are happy. How are those people going to be punished?

Thanks and Regards, R.Shyam Kumar.

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends:

Namaskarams.

 

I would like to remind our friends here that the talks about Castes -

Jaathi and and Varna has corrupted the society and this has been used to

create an apartheid system to one's own advantage and politicians have

made good use of them We can write several pages about them, but the

simple fact remains in all the verses of Gita, Purushsooktha and in all

vedas - it is made very clear. Brahmana - Kshatriya - Vaishya - and Sudhra

are Varnas and NOT Castes or Jaathis. This is a simple division of society

based on in-born desires, knowledge and quality of an individual by his

Guna- Karma- knowledge and training and it is not definitely - by any of

these texts - based on birth and family traits or parents. Now Jaathi or

Castes are different - it may indicate a family tree - birth based or

employment based and are in no way related to Varna. Jaathi is a family

name and should not be considered one superior to other. If a present day

Iyer or any other Jaathi person, male or female wants to be considered to

be a Brahmin, he or she should get brahmopadesam, study the Vedas and be

knowledgeable of Hindu Dharma to deserve that poition, not just by their

parent's glory. Same for Kshatriyas and Vaishyas. In all these, there is

no place for the so called untouchable castes - which was a leter

introduction to the society which is destroying the community. Only

Kshatriyas of yester years who defied the then rulers and later Muslim

invaders or those who lost in the war were thrown out of the village as

untouchables.

Namaskarams,

with best regards,

Bala N. Aiyer

 

 

--- " Kaura, Madan (M.L.) " <mkaura wrote:

 

> Shree Hari

> Ram Ram

> As far as I know from saints is that Gita says that according to the

> inclinations, interests and duties, human beings fall in to four

> categories. There is no mention of sub sects. Lord has ordered to

> consider all the equal and worthy of respect, and all capable of

> achieving great heights on surrendering everything to God. In fact Gita

> goes one step further and say that we should be equanimous towards even

> saints and sinner, although we should follow saint and be indifferent to

> sinner but both have the same Lord in them and should be respected as

> such and so all the animals.

> Hating someone, or destroying one's faith is like hating God Himself,

> and irrespective of object of hatred, hatred itself is enclosing and

> hindering tendency. However, hatred is transient and would cease to

> exist as soon as we turn to God. The real effect of ritual and worship

> is only if there is right intention, means seeing one's fault and not

> indulging in further, completely wiping out of hatred. More than trying

> to control the hatred and trying to suppress it, or thinking about the

> consequences, we should try to understand how it comes in to existence,

> and how limiting and hindering it is in spiritual fulfillment. Once the

> shortcoming of hatred is known, it is wiped out and heart is innocent in

> front of Lord, Lord always takes care of all the sins.

> But that is just what I feel to be true.

>

>

> On 11/9/06, R. Shyam Kumar <shyam_elcom

> <shyam_elcom > wrote:

>

>

> I am having some queries about the caste system. According to my

> knowledge God has created the 4 divisions of society as Brahmin,

> Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudras. This he has done with respect to the

> work done by the people. But he never told any one particular group as

> the highest in any of his 4 vedas.

>

> If this is the case, then how the caste got diversified into so

> many sub sects with each one claiming that they are the highest.

> WHAT IS GITA SAY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE CASTE SYSTEM?

>

> If I am hating someone and I am destroying one's faith, will God

> forgive me if I do poojas (prayer) and rituals? I see a lot of people

> are doing faulty things and still by doing the prayer (pooja), they are

> happy. How are those people going to be punished?

>

>

> Thanks and Regards,

> R.Shyam Kumar.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

Bala N. Aiyer

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[Guest guest]

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

I have counter questions to your questions :-)

 

Why on the battlefield, The Lord would discuss a caste system (as many of us has discussed being an external cast, sub-caste system, with Arjun? What is the relevance?

On one hand Lord is asking Arjuna to become a yogi BG 6:46) then why on earth he wants Arjuna to understand external cast system? Yogis are free from casts, aren't they? Then why Lord is talking about it to Arjuna? Do you think Arjuna was not familiar with the casts existed in his kingdom?

The kind of relationship described between Krishna and Arjuna indicates that Arjuna considered Krishna as his Guru (a few places he says I am your disciple, please guide me, teach me, show me the right path, etc. BG 2:7) If we consider Shri Krishna being Parmaatmaa then Arjun represents our jivaatmaa. So Pramaatmaa is parting the inner knowledge to Arjuna - jivaatmaa. To understand inner knowledge one has to go within. As usual, I would request all of us to go within and understand this aspect as Baba had made me understand.

 

When we clean our own body or anybody else's as a care taker - bath/after excretion/vomit, etc. who are we? Are we not Shudras? When we try to cleanse our mind from all bad or evil tendencies, are we not Shudras?

When we exchange our time to earn money or any other things that are needed for our living, are we not Vaishyas?

When we fight for the rights, truth, or have an inner battle to win over our weaknesses, are we not Kshatriyas?

When we acquire or part knowledge - para or apara, are we not trying to play a role of Brahmin?

So it is I myself am all 4 casts depending on what I am engaged in at a given time. It is always better to look within than discriminate somebody on external cast system. It all lies within, please let's look within while reading Gitaji and we can find our answers from within.

 

Hope it is not too late sharing my understanding.

humble regards,

always at Thy Lotus Feet

 

 

On 11/10/06, R. Shyam Kumar <shyam_elcom > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I am having some queries about the caste system. According to my knowledge God has created the 4 divisions of society as Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudras. This he has done with respect to the work done by the people. But he never told any one particular group as the highest in any of his 4 vedas.

 

If this is the case, then how the caste got diversified into so many sub sects with each one claiming that they are the highest. WHAT IS GITA SAY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE CASTE SYSTEM?

If I am hating someone and I am destroying one's faith, will God forgive me if I do poojas (prayer) and rituals? I see a lot of people are doing faulty things and still by doing the prayer (pooja), they are happy. How are those people going to be punished?

Thanks and Regards, R.Shyam Kumar.