Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Respected Readers,Very often we see that Lord Krishna is remainding Arjuna about his duties and warning,'Forget Not Your Duty, Arjuna'. Recently, I am in a dilema regarding duty. I checked the definition of duty in internet and found the following two :1. Work that you are obliged to perform for moral or legal reasons; "the duties of the job" m2. The social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of action demanded by that force; "we must instill a sense of duty in our children";Following is my dilema : Suppose a student works very hard, prepares very well and attends the exam (passing the exam is his aim and preparing and attending the exam is his duty). He comes to know that all his friends / classmates had got the question paper in advance and they could answer well. Let us assume that exam was "relative" and this boy stands last (inspite of his hardwork). He takes the exam again (by force from his parents and well wishers) inspite of his depression. This time, again he fails (or stand in the last) as mass copying was allowed and others could do well.Should this boy has to take the exam again with his approach? Or change himself with the mass (copying, cheating etc.,) or just forget this exam and take something else as this is not suiting his nature?Thank you for throwing some light and with best regards,Padma Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 A boy who has studied well is bound to answer the exam paper well, whether there is mass copying or not. The advantage of copying and scoring marks is true of those bad students who dont study at all. But for an excellent student who knows answers to all questions, copying by others should not make any difference. We should look at absolute values and not relative values. When Krishna talks to Arjuna about his duty, He is referring to Arjuna's duty as a Kshatriya, in other words, Swa-dharma is what is meant. The definitions you have found in the Internet are both correct, because, the duties of the different Varnas which were based on social classifications have drastically changed with the different classes following all professions. Hence the definition of "Swa-dharma" itself has undergone vast changes. Swami Vivekananda, Chinmayananda and others have written in detail on Swadharma, and I suggest you read their commentaries on Gita. Regards K.V. Gopalakrishna. Padmavathy AS wrote: Respected Readers, Very often we see that Lord Krishna is remainding Arjuna about his duties and warning,'Forget Not Your Duty, Arjuna'. Recently, I am in a dilema regarding duty. I checked the definition of duty in internet and found the following two : 1. Work that you are obliged to perform for moral or legal reasons; "the duties of the job" m 2. The social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of action demanded by that force; "we must instill a sense of duty in our children"; Following is my dilema : Suppose a student works very hard, prepares very well and attends the exam (passing the exam is his aim and preparing and attending the exam is his duty). He comes to know that all his friends / classmates had got the question paper in advance and they could answer well. Let us assume that exam was "relative" and this boy stands last (inspite of his hardwork). He takes the exam again (by force from his parents and well wishers) inspite of his depression. This time, again he fails (or stand in the last) as mass copying was allowed and others could do well. Should this boy has to take the exam again with his approach? Or change himself with the mass (copying, cheating etc.,) or just forget this exam and take something else as this is not suiting his nature? Thank you for throwing some light and with best regards, Padma Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 PLEASE READ MULTIPLE SADHAKA RESPONSES, "pratapbhatt" Some comments/suggestions: In case of Lord Krishna's advice, duty means more as Dharma of righteousness, than binding force or any obligations. If something forces us to do but we don't like to do for some right reasons, then we better not do or that which we do will lack love, devotion, and efficiency. I think to do that which we love, and is right also is more important than to do as duty in most cases. Then the issue will resolve to only "how can we love what we do and to discriminate between right and wrong". Now in case of the student who fails exam after sincere studying and preparation and hard work, what matters is that the boy has given his best to study and then leave results to God according to Gita. Results is not in one's hand. Karma (Action) is. Do as your duty in line with dharma dictates and accept the results as prasad from God, be it of passing or failing! .... Karmanyevadhikaraste, maa faleshu kadachn.......... is what Bhagwan says to Arjuna. You can only do karmas in line with dharma, you cannot influence the result thereof! -------------------- Respected Readers, My response is in 2 parts: 1. How we label events determines our first response. The human mind can't see the whole picture so it labels incidents as right or wrong. If the student knows who is the mastermind of all incidents, it will elicit a firm yet joyous response. His commitment towards study will be challenged but not shaken. 2. The student in question nurtures an image about himself. That image is not a true reflection of his self. Its coloured with a mixture of emotional and thought patterns. His key focus should be to liberate himself from patterns that induce an experience of being a victim. By enquiring into the above he attains familiarity with his own gita. Anup -------------------- Love and Love alone.... Why do you want to tax your brain with such hypothetical questions, which do not help you in your sadhana. Let us cross the bridge, when we reach that. Thinking about it now when we do not know how long the bridge would be, what kind of structure it is, etc., means we are only wasting our "present" for "future". It does not make any sense and help one at all. Love and Love alone... P. Gopi Krishna -------------------- With respect..... I don't think we can ignore the relative values as the reader has suggested. Copying answers, and the resulting malpractices can make the deserving one out of opportunity. And, unfortunately, these (or similar) practices are fact of life. During such situations, it is still expected for one to follow the right path, and perform one's duties. But, that is only one side of the coin. The effort to expose these practices, and thence to fight them should also be made. Single handedly, it could be difficult, but done collectively by righteous people it would be considered an 'Yagniya Karya' bearing God-said results. Bhagwan also said ' paritranay sadhunaam, vinashayascha duskrutam..' He also comes to help the righteous and destroy the 'dushta' people. Escapism is not the way. regards..... Naresh Shah. -------------------- From Rekha Gupta Divine mitra! Perhaps I can understand ur delima bcoz I m too a student. 1.As i believe,according to gita where lord says "KARMANYE VA DHIKARASTEY MAA FALESHU KADACHINAA",we dont need to worry about the result or outcome of any deed we commited,though it a exam. 2. Secondly I think we can get in the life only that we have given or as our "prarabdha" nothing more neither less to that and at predetermineed time." so u dont puzzle yourself for these things. if this course or field is not in ur fate ,then Lord might change it for u and so HE is trying to change circumstance for this, so that u change ur intention. 3.If u r not following the wrong path then even if it did'nt made u succeeded,but has given u great internal satisfaction.is'nt it. so do only that give u spritual success since it is immortal. -------------------- npanda (AT) ntpc (DOT) ... I HAVE ALSO SIMILAR EXPERIENCE. LAST YEAR I WAS DUE FOR A PROMOTION. IHAVE BEEN SINCERELY AND HONESTLY DOING MY DUTY TAKING CARE OF INTEREST OF ORGANISATION. BUT THAT HURTS THE VESTED INTEREST OF SOME AND USING POLITICS/REGIONALISM SPOILED MY CARRIER AS I DID NOT FIT THE PREFERRED PLACE/LANGUAGE. NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN JUSTICE. PLEASE TELL WHAT TO DO? -------------------- From Bharathi The boy first of all need not had to be depressed..'you just have to do your duty and do not think about any consequences at all..whether he fails or passes. One's best ability is the only thing you can and the rest is to God or the supreme power. Again, let him not compare himself to any other person whether they cheated or copied or got the exam paper ahead..just follow his heart and sincerely and honestly prepare and take the exam. the greatest satisfaction of life is..that you followed ur heart, but do not compare yourself with anyone else. you define ur own success. Yes..the people can call u many things..its from their view..but u define ur own success competing with your own self so, have the sincere feeling and honesty within the heart..he may go thro many challenges (I am not saying obstacles), but he is a victory to himself and will be a role model to many others. (Yes..all that takes time..) but again, have the patience and do ur sincere things which you feel right in urself and leave the rest to God or that supreme. And God will be with him. God will never abandon anyone who is sincere or honest. That is for sure. Have FAITH in God. Having surrendered to God, it is not ur suffering anymore ...battles are not urs to fight. God will fight ur battles for u. Again, repeating here..'GOD/Supreme divinity/supreme power/or whatever each religion calls'' will NEVER leave or will never stop supporting you once you do your duty (duty is what you feel right in ur heart which U feel u have to do or expect someone else to do for u if u were in that situation ) and leave the output or the fruits of the activity to that Lord with comeplete FAITH. Good Luck with everything Regards. Bharathidiv> bh_4321...div> -------------------- On 11/30/06, Padmavathy AS <aspadma2003 wrote: Respected Readers,Very often we see that Lord Krishna is remainding Arjuna about his duties and warning,'Forget Not Your Duty, Arjuna'. Recently, I am in a dilema regarding duty. I checked the definition of duty in internet and found the following two : 1. Work that you are obliged to perform for moral or legal reasons; " the duties of the job " m2. The social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of action demanded by that force; " we must instill a sense of duty in our children " ; Following is my dilema : Suppose a student works very hard, prepares very well and attends the exam (passing the exam is his aim and preparing and attending the exam is his duty). He comes to know that all his friends / classmates had got the question paper in advance and they could answer well. Let us assume that exam was " relative " and this boy stands last (inspite of his hardwork). He takes the exam again (by force from his parents and well wishers) inspite of his depression. This time, again he fails (or stand in the last) as mass copying was allowed and others could do well. Should this boy has to take the exam again with his approach? Or change himself with the mass (copying, cheating etc.,) or just forget this exam and take something else as this is not suiting his nature?Thank you for throwing some light and with best regards, Padma Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. -- Anup WadhwaDirector Automation Industry Association:B-404, Ansal Chambers -1,3, Bhikaji Cama Place,New Delhi -110066Ph: 011-41659981M: 09810026674www.aia-india.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Dharma of the boy and his parents also included fighting the adharma of mass copying!Lord does not expect you to sit idly while injustice is being done! You may leave the results of the battle to God,but it is your Dharma to oppose in whichever way you can! Bhave -"Anup Wadhwa" Subject: Re: Definition of duty - some clarificationTue, 5 Dec 2006 14:55:59 +0530 PLEASE READ MULTIPLE SADHAKA RESPONSES, "pratapbhatt" Some comments/suggestions: In case of Lord Krishna's advice, duty means more as Dharma of righteousness, than binding force or any obligations. If something forces us to do but we don't like to do for some right reasons, then we better not do or that which we do will lack love, devotion, and efficiency. I think to do that which we love, and is right also is more important than to do as duty in most cases. Then the issue will resolve to only "how can we love what we do and to discriminate between right and wrong". Now in case of the student who fails exam after sincere studying and preparation and hard work, what matters is that the boy has given his best to study and then leave results to God according to Gita. Results is not in one's hand. Karma (Action) is. Do as your duty in line with dharma dictates and accept the results as prasad from God, be it of passing or failing! ... Karmanyevadhikaraste, maa faleshu kadachn.......... is what Bhagwan says to Arjuna. You can only do karmas in line with dharma, you cannot influence the result thereof! -------------------- Respected Readers, My response is in 2 parts: 1. How we label events determines our first response. The human mind can't see the whole picture so it labels incidents as right or wrong. If the student knows who is the mastermind of all incidents, it will elicit a firm yet joyous response. His commitment towards study will be challenged but not shaken. 2. The student in question nurtures an image about himself. That image is not a true reflection of his self. Its coloured with a mixture of emotional and thought patterns. His key focus should be to liberate himself from patterns that induce an experience of being a victim. By enquiring into the above he attains familiarity with his own gita. Anup -------------------- Love and Love alone.... Why do you want to tax your brain with such hypothetical questions, which do not help you in your sadhana. Let us cross the bridge, when we reach that. Thinking about it now when we do not know how long the bridge would be, what kind of structure it is, etc., means we are only wasting our "present" for "future". It does not make any sense and help one at all. Love and Love alone... P. Gopi Krishna -------------------- With respect..... I don't think we can ignore the relative values as the reader has suggested. Copying answers, and the resulting malpractices can make the deserving one out of opportunity. And, unfortunately, these (or similar) practices are fact of life. During such situations, it is still expected for one to follow the right path, and perform one's duties. But, that is only one side of the coin. The effort to expose these practices, and thence to fight them should also be made. Single handedly, it could be difficult, but done collectively by righteous people it would be considered an 'Yagniya Karya' bearing God-said results. Bhagwan also said ' paritranay sadhunaam, vinashayascha duskrutam..' He also comes to help the righteous and destroy the 'dushta' people. Escapism is not the way. regards..... Naresh Shah. -------------------- From Rekha Gupta Divine mitra! Perhaps I can understand ur delima bcoz I m too a student. 1.As i believe,according to gita where lord says "KARMANYE VA DHIKARASTEY MAA FALESHU KADACHINAA",we dont need to worry about the result or outcome of any deed we commited,though it a exam. 2. Secondly I think we can get in the life only that we have given or as our "prarabdha" nothing more neither less to that and at predetermineed time." so u dont puzzle yourself for these things. if this course or field is not in ur fate ,then Lord might change it for u and so HE is trying to change circumstance for this, so that u change ur intention. 3.If u r not following the wrong path then even if it did'nt made u succeeded,but has given u great internal satisfaction.is'nt it. so do only that give u spritual success since it is immortal. -------------------- npanda (AT) ntpc (DOT) ... I HAVE ALSO SIMILAR EXPERIENCE. LAST YEAR I WAS DUE FOR A PROMOTION. IHAVE BEEN SINCERELY AND HONESTLY DOING MY DUTY TAKING CARE OF INTEREST OF ORGANISATION. BUT THAT HURTS THE VESTED INTEREST OF SOME AND USING POLITICS/REGIONALISM SPOILED MY CARRIER AS I DID NOT FIT THE PREFERRED PLACE/LANGUAGE. NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN JUSTICE. PLEASE TELL WHAT TO DO? -------------------- From Bharathi The boy first of all need not had to be depressed..'you just have to do your duty and do not think about any consequences at all..whether he fails or passes. One's best ability is the only thing you can and the rest is to God or the supreme power. Again, let him not compare himself to any other person whether they cheated or copied or got the exam paper ahead..just follow his heart and sincerely and honestly prepare and take the exam. the greatest satisfaction of life is..that you followed ur heart, but do not compare yourself with anyone else. you define ur own success. Yes..the people can call u many things..its from their view..but u define ur own success competing with your own self so, have the sincere feeling and honesty within the heart..he may go thro many challenges (I am not saying obstacles), but he is a victory to himself and will be a role model to many others. (Yes..all that takes time..) but again, have the patience and do ur sincere things which you feel right in urself and leave the rest to God or that supreme. And God will be with him. God will never abandon anyone who is sincere or honest. That is for sure. Have FAITH in God. Having surrendered to God, it is not ur suffering anymore ...battles are not urs to fight. God will fight ur battles for u. Again, repeating here..'GOD/Supreme divinity/supreme power/or whatever each religion calls'' will NEVER leave or will never stop supporting you once you do your duty (duty is what you feel right in ur heart which U feel u have to do or expect someone else to do for u if u were in that situation ) and leave the output or the fruits of the activity to that Lord with comeplete FAITH. Good Luck with everything Regards. Bharathidiv> bh_4321...div> -------------------- On 11/30/06, Padmavathy AS <aspadma2003 > wrote: Respected Readers,Very often we see that Lord Krishna is remainding Arjuna about his duties and warning,'Forget Not Your Duty, Arjuna'. Recently, I am in a dilema regarding duty. I checked the definition of duty in internet and found the following two : 1. Work that you are obliged to perform for moral or legal reasons; "the duties of the job" m2. The social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of action demanded by that force; "we must instill a sense of duty in our children"; Following is my dilema : Suppose a student works very hard, prepares very well and attends the exam (passing the exam is his aim and preparing and attending the exam is his duty). He comes to know that all his friends / classmates had got the question paper in advance and they could answer well. Let us assume that exam was "relative" and this boy stands last (inspite of his hardwork). He takes the exam again (by force from his parents and well wishers) inspite of his depression. This time, again he fails (or stand in the last) as mass copying was allowed and others could do well. Should this boy has to take the exam again with his approach? Or change himself with the mass (copying, cheating etc.,) or just forget this exam and take something else as this is not suiting his nature?Thank you for throwing some light and with best regards, Padma Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. -- Anup WadhwaDirector Automation Industry Association:B-404, Ansal Chambers -1,3, Bhikaji Cama Place,New Delhi -110066Ph: 011-41659981M: 09810026674www.aia-india.org -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 From Kannan Namashkar to elders and blessings to children. My belief : When we follow dharma even amongst people who are doing other-wise, God will reward at the appropriate time. Justice may be delayed but not denied. Four lines for wisdom of righteousness 1 No hard work goes unrewarded 2 No evil work goes unpunished 3 The More it delays for reward of hard work, the more will be the reward 4 The more it delays for punishment of evil work, the more will be the punishment With respects Kannan On Behalf Of prakash bhave Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:02 PM Re: Definition of duty - some clarification Dharma of the boy and his parents also included fighting the adharma of mass copying!Lord does not expect you to sit idly while injustice is being done! You may leave the results of the battle to God,but it is your Dharma to oppose in whichever way you can! Bhave - " Anup Wadhwa " Re: Definition of duty - some clarification Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:55:59 +0530 PLEASE READ MULTIPLE SADHAKA RESPONSES, " pratapbhatt " Some comments/suggestions: In case of Lord Krishna's advice, duty means more as Dharma of righteousness, than binding force or any obligations. If something forces us to do but we don't like to do for some right reasons, then we better not do or that which we do will lack love, devotion, and efficiency. I think to do that which we love, and is right also is more important than to do as duty in most cases. Then the issue will resolve to only " how can we love what we do and to discriminate between right and wrong " . Now in case of the student who fails exam after sincere studying and preparation and hard work, what matters is that the boy has given his best to study and then leave results to God according to Gita. Results is not in one's hand. Karma (Action) is. Do as your duty in line with dharma dictates and accept the results as prasad from God, be it of passing or failing! ... Karmanyevadhikaraste, maa faleshu kadachn.......... is what Bhagwan says to Arjuna. You can only do karmas in line with dharma, you cannot influence the result thereof! -------------------- Respected Readers, My response is in 2 parts: 1. How we label events determines our first response. The human mind can't see the whole picture so it labels incidents as right or wrong. If the student knows who is the mastermind of all incidents, it will elicit a firm yet joyous response. His commitment towards study will be challenged but not shaken. 2. The student in question nurtures an image about himself. That image is not a true reflection of his self. Its coloured with a mixture of emotional and thought patterns. His key focus should be to liberate himself from patterns that induce an experience of being a victim. By enquiring into the above he attains familiarity with his own gita. Anup -------------------- Love and Love alone.... Why do you want to tax your brain with such hypothetical questions, which do not help you in your sadhana. Let us cross the bridge, when we reach that. Thinking about it now when we do not know how long the bridge would be, what kind of structure it is, etc., means we are only wasting our " present " for " future " . It does not make any sense and help one at all. Love and Love alone... P. Gopi Krishna -------------------- With respect..... I don't think we can ignore the relative values as the reader has suggested. Copying answers, and the resulting malpractices can make the deserving one out of opportunity. And, unfortunately, these (or similar) practices are fact of life. During such situations, it is still expected for one to follow the right path, and perform one's duties. But, that is only one side of the coin. The effort to expose these practices, and thence to fight them should also be made. Single handedly, it could be difficult, but done collectively by righteous people it would be considered an 'Yagniya Karya' bearing God-said results. Bhagwan also said ' paritranay sadhunaam, vinashayascha duskrutam..' He also comes to help the righteous and destroy the 'dushta' people. Escapism is not the way. regards..... Naresh Shah. -------------------- From Rekha Gupta Divine mitra! Perhaps I can understand ur delima bcoz I m too a student. 1.As i believe,according to gita where lord says " KARMANYE VA DHIKARASTEY MAA FALESHU KADACHINAA " ,we dont need to worry about the result or outcome of any deed we commited,though it a exam. 2. Secondly I think we can get in the life only that we have given or as our " prarabdha " nothing more neither less to that and at predetermineed time. " so u dont puzzle yourself for these things. if this course or field is not in ur fate ,then Lord might change it for u and so HE is trying to change circumstance for this, so that u change ur intention. 3.If u r not following the wrong path then even if it did'nt made u succeeded,but has given u great internal satisfaction.is'nt it. so do only that give u spritual success since it is immortal. -------------------- npanda (AT) ntpc (DOT) ... I HAVE ALSO SIMILAR EXPERIENCE. LAST YEAR I WAS DUE FOR A PROMOTION. IHAVE BEEN SINCERELY AND HONESTLY DOING MY DUTY TAKING CARE OF INTEREST OF ORGANISATION. BUT THAT HURTS THE VESTED INTEREST OF SOME AND USING POLITICS/REGIONALISM SPOILED MY CARRIER AS I DID NOT FIT THE PREFERRED PLACE/LANGUAGE. NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN JUSTICE. PLEASE TELL WHAT TO DO? -------------------- From Bharathi The boy first of all need not had to be depressed..'you just have to do your duty and do not think about any consequences at all..whether he fails or passes. One's best ability is the only thing you can and the rest is to God or the supreme power. Again, let him not compare himself to any other person whether they cheated or copied or got the exam paper ahead..just follow his heart and sincerely and honestly prepare and take the exam. the greatest satisfaction of life is..that you followed ur heart, but do not compare yourself with anyone else. you define ur own success. Yes..the people can call u many things..its from their view..but u define ur own success competing with your own self so, have the sincere feeling and honesty within the heart..he may go thro many challenges (I am not saying obstacles), but he is a victory to himself and will be a role model to many others. (Yes..all that takes time..) but again, have the patience and do ur sincere things which you feel right in urself and leave the rest to God or that supreme. And God will be with him. God will never abandon anyone who is sincere or honest. That is for sure. Have FAITH in God. Having surrendered to God, it is not ur suffering anymore ...battles are not urs to fight. God will fight ur battles for u. Again, repeating here..'GOD/Supreme divinity/supreme power/or whatever each religion calls'' will NEVER leave or will never stop supporting you once you do your duty (duty is what you feel right in ur heart which U feel u have to do or expect someone else to do for u if u were in that situation ) and leave the output or the fruits of the activity to that Lord with comeplete FAITH. Good Luck with everything Regards. Bharathidiv> bh_4321...div> -------------------- On 11/30/06, Padmavathy AS <aspadma2003 > wrote: Respected Readers, Very often we see that Lord Krishna is remainding Arjuna about his duties and warning,'Forget Not Your Duty, Arjuna'. Recently, I am in a dilema regarding duty. I checked the definition of duty in internet and found the following two : 1. Work that you are obliged to perform for moral or legal reasons; " the duties of the job " m 2. The social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of action demanded by that force; " we must instill a sense of duty in our children " ; Following is my dilema : Suppose a student works very hard, prepares very well and attends the exam (passing the exam is his aim and preparing and attending the exam is his duty). He comes to know that all his friends / classmates had got the question paper in advance and they could answer well. Let us assume that exam was " relative " and this boy stands last (inspite of his hardwork). He takes the exam again (by force from his parents and well wishers) inspite of his depression. This time, again he fails (or stand in the last) as mass copying was allowed and others could do well. Should this boy has to take the exam again with his approach? Or change himself with the mass (copying, cheating etc.,) or just forget this exam and take something else as this is not suiting his nature? Thank you for throwing some light and with best regards, Padma Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. -- Anup Wadhwa Automation Industry Association: B-404, Ansal Chambers -1, 3, Bhikaji Cama Place, New Delhi -110066 Ph: 011-41659981 M: 09810026674 www.aia-india.org -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Dharma is one of the 4 stages of self realization process. First step is KAM (object/sensory or physical property), Second is ARTH (subject/vishaya/intellectual property) Third is DHARMA (mind training to clean subjects by proper understanding and research) and Fourth is MOKSHA (achievement of detachment after fully knowing everything). Dharma and Moksha are a matter of swadhyay in Bhagwat Gita. Dharma is R & D activity on self and after the R & D, it is Moksha. KAM and ARTH are product and subject of the products respectively, and these are normal to us, and not a matter of self and not discussed in Bhagwat Gita in depth. Regards K G Original Message: ----------------- Wed, 06 Dec 2006 00:02:19 -0500 {Disarmed} Re: Definition of duty - some clarification Dharma of the boy and his parents also included fighting the adharma of mass copying! Lord does not expect you to sit idly while injustice is being done! You may leave the results of the battle to God,but it is your Dharma to oppose in whichever way you can! Bhave - " Anup Wadhwa " Re: Definition of duty - some clarification Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:55:59 +0530 PLEASE READ MULTIPLE SADHAKA RESPONSES, " pratapbhatt " Some comments/suggestions: In case of Lord Krishna's advice, duty means more as Dharma of righteousness, than binding force or any obligations. If something forces us to do but we don't like to do for some right reasons, then we better not do or that which we do will lack love, devotion, and efficiency. I think to do that which we love, and is right also is more important than to do as duty in most cases. Then the issue will resolve to only " how can we love what we do and to discriminate between right and wrong " . Now in case of the student who fails exam after sincere studying and preparation and hard work, what matters is that the boy has given his best to study and then leave results to God according to Gita. Results is not in one's hand. Karma (Action) is. Do as your duty in line with dharma dictates and accept the results as prasad from God, be it of passing or failing! ... Karmanyevadhikaraste, maa faleshu kadachn.......... is what Bhagwan says to Arjuna. You can only do karmas in line with dharma, you cannot influence the result thereof! ---------- ---------------------- Respected Readers,My response is in 2 parts:1. How we label events determines our first response. The human mind can't see the whole picture so it labels incidents as right or wrong. If the student knows who is the mastermind of all incidents, it will elicit a firm yet joyous response. His commitment towards study will be challenged but not shaken. 2. The student in question nurtures an image about himself. That image is not a true reflection of his self. Its coloured with a mixture of emotional and thought patterns. His key focus should be to liberate himself from patterns that induce an experience of being a victim. By enquiring into the above he attains familiarity with his own gita. Anup -------- ------------------------ Love and Love alone.... Why do you want to tax your brain with such hypothetical questions, which do not help you in your sadhana. Let us cross the bridge, when we reach that. Thinking about it now when we do not know how long the bridge would be, what kind of structure it is, etc., means we are only wasting our " present " for " future " . It does not make any sense and help one at all. Love and Love alone... P. Gopi Krishna ---------- ---------------------- With respect..... I don't think we can ignore the relative values as the reader has suggested. Copying answers, and the resulting malpractices can make the deserving one out of opportunity. And, unfortunately, these (or similar) practices are fact of life. During such situations, it is still expected for one to follow the right path, and perform one's duties. But, that is only one side of the coin. The effort to expose these practices, and thence to fight them should also be made. Single handedly, it could be difficult, but done collectively by righteous people it would be considered an 'Yagniya Karya' bearing God-said results. Bhagwan also said ' paritranay sadhunaam, vinashayascha duskrutam..' He also comes to help the righteous and destroy the 'dushta' people. Escapism is not the way. regards..... Naresh Shah. ---------- ---------------------- From Rekha Gupta Divine mitra! Perhaps I can understand ur delima bcoz I m too a student. 1.As i believe,according to gita where lord says " KARMANYE VA DHIKARASTEY MAA FALESHU KADACHINAA " ,we dont need to worry about the result or outcome of any deed we commited,though it a exam. 2. Secondly I think we can get in the life only that we have given or as our " prarabdha " nothing more neither less to that and at predetermineed time. " so u dont puzzle yourself for these things. if this course or field is not in ur fate ,then Lord might change it for u and so HE is trying to change circumstance for this, so that u change ur intention. 3.If u r not following the wrong path then even if it did'nt made u succeeded,but has given u great internal satisfaction.is'nt it. so do only that give u spritual success since it is immortal. ---------- ---------------------- npanda (AT) ntpc (DOT) ... I HAVE ALSO SIMILAR EXPERIENCE. LAST YEAR I WAS DUE FOR A PROMOTION. IHAVE BEEN SINCERELY AND HONESTLY DOING MY DUTY TAKING CARE OF INTEREST OF ORGANISATION. BUT THAT HURTS THE VESTED INTEREST OF SOME AND USING POLITICS/REGIONALISM SPOILED MY CARRIER AS I DID NOT FIT THE PREFERRED PLACE/LANGUAGE. NOBODY IS INTERESTED IN JUSTICE. PLEASE TELL WHAT TO DO? -------- ------------------------ From Bharathi The boy first of all need not had to be depressed..'you just have to do your duty and do not think about any consequences at all..whether he fails or passes. One's best ability is the only thing you can and the rest is to God or the supreme power. Again, let him not compare himself to any other person whether they cheated or copied or got the exam paper ahead..just follow his heart and sincerely and honestly prepare and take the exam. the greatest satisfaction of life is..that you followed ur heart, but do not compare yourself with anyone else. you define ur own success. Yes..the people can call u many things..its from their view..but u define ur own success competing with your own self so, have the sincere feeling and honesty within the heart..he may go thro many challenges (I am not saying obstacles), but he is a victory to himself and will be a role model to many others. (Yes..all that takes time..) but again, have the patience and do ur sincere things which you feel right in urself and leave the rest to God or that supreme. And God will be with him. God will never abandon anyone who is sincere or honest. That is for sure. Have FAITH in God. Having surrendered to God, it is not ur suffering anymore ...battles are not urs to fight. God will fight ur battles for u. Again, repeating here..'GOD/Supreme divinity/supreme power/or whatever each religion calls'' will NEVER leave or will never stop supporting you once you do your duty (duty is what you feel right in ur heart which U feel u have to do or expect someone else to do for u if u were in that situation ) and leave the output or the fruits of the activity to that Lord with comeplete FAITH. Good Luck with everything Regards. Bharathidiv> bh_4321...div> -------- ------------------------ On 11/30/06, Padmavathy AS <aspadma2003 wrote: Respected Readers, Very often we see that Lord Krishna is remainding Arjuna about his duties and warning,'Forget Not Your Duty, Arjuna'. Recently, I am in a dilema regarding duty. I checked the definition of duty in internet and found the following two : 1. Work that you are obliged to perform for moral or legal reasons; " the duties of the job " m 2. The social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of action demanded by that force; " we must instill a sense of duty in our children " ; Following is my dilema : Suppose a student works very hard, prepares very well and attends the exam (passing the exam is his aim and preparing and attending the exam is his duty). He comes to know that all his friends / classmates had got the question paper in advance and they could answer well. Let us assume that exam was " relative " and this boy stands last (inspite of his hardwork). He takes the exam again (by force from his parents and well wishers) inspite of his depression. This time, again he fails (or stand in the last) as mass copying was allowed and others could do well. Should this boy has to take the exam again with his approach? Or change himself with the mass (copying, cheating etc.,) or just forget this exam and take something else as this is not suiting his nature? Thank you for throwing some light and with best regards, Padma ------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. -- Anup Wadhwa Director Automation Industry Association: B-404, Ansal Chambers -1, 3, Bhikaji Cama Place, New Delhi -110066 Ph: 011-41659981 M: 09810026674 www.aia-india.org Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Calendar Change settings via the Web ( ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Terms of Use | Un Recent Activity * 78New Members Visit Your Group Be Discovered! HotJobs Employers find you Upload your resume Mail Get on board You're invited to try the all-new Mail Beta. Y! 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Guest guest Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Dear All, Love and Love alone... Not only that, in the series of words of " Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha " , " Dharma " comes first and " Moksha " comes last. It clearly indicates that that " Artha " and " Kama " should have " Dharma " as the main and the most important ingredient, then only one is eligible and entitled to " Moksha " . That is the reason, our Seers put " Dharma " first of " Artha and Kama " to get to " Moksha " . Without " Dharma " , there is no meaning of " Artha and Kama " . The society will become chaotic and humans will become beasts. Is it not? So, " Dharma " is the main. It also in a way suggests the purpose of " Four Stages of Life. " , i.e., " Kaumara or Brahmacharya or Yavvana, Grihastha, Vanaprastha and Sanyasa " . As a Brahmachari or in Yavvana, one learns about Sastras and how to conduct oneself in a righteous way (i.e., Dharma), as Grihastha, one gets married and following Dharma, one earns and also begets progeny, as a Vanaprastha, one serves the society about the concepts of " Dharma " and as Sanyasi one becomes the That (which is the Dharma itself, i.e., Tyaga). Tyaga (or Renunciation) automatically leads to Moksha. What do you all say? Am I right? Kindly correct me, if my analyses is wrong. Love and Love alone... P. Gopi Krishna --- " qualitymeter " <qualitymeter wrote: > Dharma is one of the 4 stages of self realization > process. First step is KAM (object/sensory or > physical property), Second is ARTH > (subject/vishaya/intellectual property) Third is > DHARMA (mind training to clean subjects by proper > understanding and research) and Fourth is MOKSHA > (achievement of detachment after fully knowing > everything). > > Dharma and Moksha are a matter of swadhyay in > Bhagwat Gita. Dharma is R & D activity on self and > after the R & D, it is Moksha. > > KAM and ARTH are product and subject of the products > respectively, and these are normal to us, and not a > matter of self and not discussed in Bhagwat Gita in > depth. > > Regards > K G > > Original Message: > ----------------- > > Wed, 06 Dec 2006 00:02:19 -0500 > > {Disarmed} Re: Definition of > duty - some clarification > > > Dharma of the boy and his parents also included > fighting the adharma of > mass copying! Lord does not expect you to sit idly > while injustice is > being done! > > You may leave the results of the battle to God,but > it is your Dharma to > oppose in whichever way you can! > > Bhave > > - > " Anup Wadhwa " > > Re: Definition of duty - some > clarification > Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:55:59 +0530 > > PLEASE READ MULTIPLE SADHAKA RESPONSES, > " pratapbhatt " Some > comments/suggestions: In case of Lord Krishna's > advice, duty means > more as Dharma of righteousness, than binding > force or any > obligations. If something forces us to do but we > don't like to do for > some right reasons, then we better not do or that > which we do will > lack love, devotion, and efficiency. I think to do > that which we > love, and is right also is more important than to > do as duty in most > cases. Then the issue will resolve to only " how > can we love what we > do and to discriminate between right and wrong " . > Now in case of the > student who fails exam after sincere studying and > preparation and > hard work, what matters is that the boy has given > his best to study > and then leave results to God according to Gita. > Results is not in > one's hand. Karma (Action) is. Do as your duty in > line with dharma > dictates and accept the results as prasad from > God, be it of passing > or failing! ... Karmanyevadhikaraste, maa faleshu > kadachn.......... > is what Bhagwan says to Arjuna. You can only do > karmas in line with > dharma, you cannot influence the result thereof! > ---------- > ---------------------- > Respected Readers,My response is in 2 parts:1. How > we label events > determines our first response. The human mind > can't see the whole > picture so it labels incidents as right or wrong. > If the > student knows who is the mastermind of all > incidents, it will elicit > a firm yet joyous response. His commitment towards > study will be > challenged but not shaken. 2. The student in > question nurtures an > image about himself. That image is not a true > reflection of his self. > Its coloured with a mixture of emotional and > thought patterns. His > key focus should be to liberate himself from > patterns that induce an > experience of being a victim. By enquiring into > the above he attains > familiarity with his own gita. Anup > > -------- > ------------------------ > Love and Love alone.... Why do you want to tax > your brain with such > hypothetical questions, which do not help you in > your sadhana. Let us > cross the bridge, when we reach that. Thinking > about it now when we > do not know how long the bridge would be, what > kind of structure it > is, etc., means we are only wasting our " present " > for " future " . It > does not make any sense and help one at all. > Love and Love alone... P. Gopi Krishna > ---------- > ---------------------- > With respect..... I don't think we can ignore the > relative values as > the reader has suggested. Copying answers, and the > resulting > malpractices can make the deserving one out of > opportunity. And, > unfortunately, these (or similar) practices are > fact of life. During > such situations, it is still expected for one to > follow the right > path, and perform one's duties. But, that is only > one side of the > coin. The effort to expose these practices, and > thence to fight them > should also be made. Single handedly, it could be > difficult, but done > collectively by righteous people it would be > considered an 'Yagniya > Karya' bearing God-said results. Bhagwan also said > ' paritranay > sadhunaam, vinashayascha duskrutam..' He also > comes to help the > righteous and destroy the 'dushta' people. > Escapism is not the way. > regards..... Naresh Shah. > ---------- > ---------------------- > From Rekha Gupta Divine mitra! Perhaps I can > understand ur delima > bcoz I m too a student. 1.As i believe,according > to gita where lord > says " KARMANYE VA DHIKARASTEY MAA FALESHU > KADACHINAA " ,we dont need to > worry about the result or outcome of any deed we > commited,though it a > exam. 2. Secondly I think we can get in the life > only that we have > given or as our " prarabdha " nothing more neither > less to that and at > predetermineed time. " so u dont puzzle yourself > for these things. if > this course or field is not in ur fate ,then Lord > might change it for > u and so HE is trying to change circumstance for > this, so that u > change ur intention. 3.If u r not following the > wrong path then even > if it did'nt made u succeeded,but has given u > great internal > satisfaction.is'nt it. so do only that give u > spritual success since > it is immortal. > ---------- > ---------------------- > npanda (AT) ntpc (DOT) ... I HAVE ALSO SIMILAR > EXPERIENCE. LAST YEAR I WAS > DUE FOR A PROMOTION. IHAVE BEEN SINCERELY AND > HONESTLY DOING MY DUTY > TAKING CARE OF INTEREST OF ORGANISATION. BUT THAT > HURTS THE VESTED > INTEREST OF SOME AND USING POLITICS/REGIONALISM > SPOILED MY CARRIER AS > I DID NOT FIT THE PREFERRED PLACE/LANGUAGE. NOBODY > IS INTERESTED IN > JUSTICE. PLEASE TELL WHAT TO DO? > > -------- > ------------------------ > From Bharathi The boy first of all need not had to > be depressed..'you > just have to do your duty and do not think about > any consequences at > all..whether he fails or passes. One's best > ability is the only thing > you can and the rest is to God or the supreme > power. Again, let him > not compare himself to any other person whether > they cheated or > copied or got the exam paper ahead..just follow > his === message truncated === P. Gopi Krishna ________ India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Loving Divine, Pranam. Please note that I am neither supporting nor opposing anything listed in the original email as I don't know enough to do so - there are multiple things involved: the student, parents, friends, society-culture, etc. However, I would ask the following questions that might help support the direction one would choose to take. We all know, including the student who came last in the exam that our duty as a student is to study sincerely. Only the student himself/herself can answer this question whether he/she studied sincerely or not? Sometimes, apparently it looks like we are studying very hard but if we honestly evaluate ourselves (go within), we will find out that our heart is not into study at all! We were not studying at all as most of the time our mind was somewhere else! Would we honestly say in this situation that I fulfilled my duty of studying? If I had honestly studied, done my duty with full faith and devotion towards it, where the question of what others are doing arise? How can I measure/compare my duty with what others are doing? My duty is my duty, it has nothing to do with what others are doing or achieving? If we have done our duty honestly, there is no worry about what the outcome would be ( Karmanyevaadhikaa...) because I could not do anything any better than what I had already done to begin with (as I had already put my 100% to begin with). Don't we all know what is right - wrong, ethical - unethical, moral - immoral? (BTW, God has nothing to do with any of it!!! Under the law of karma - we reap what we sow.) So, if we understand the right from wrong, if we understand law of karma, if we have full faith in God, if we understand we are responsible for our own actions then what is there to worry? Who are we to judge & punish or recognize and reward others? Who is being worried? why? for what? Search deep. Am I the parent of the failing student? Am I imposing my ambitions on to my son/daughter? Am I trying to live my dreams through my kids? Am I putting my kids into stress unnecessarily because I as a parent can not accept failure? I as a parent, need to evaluate myself - look within and determine the course of action I need to take. Are we trying to hide our weaknesses or failures in the name of what others are doing? This may include lack of our ability/honesty to perform a given duty (face ones own self), fear to face others (image/prestige/what others will say), lack of strength to fight for what is right, lack of courage to face consequences, etc., etc.? Are we operating as a person with full faith in God, He and only He is mine and no body else is. Dedicating all of our actions at His Feet and believing that He and only He exist - Vasudevam sarvam? Whatever is done, is all good for me even though at short term level it looks very unpleasing to me? If so, who is performing duty, towards whom? who is becoming upset against whom? who wants to fight against whom? Search deep. If your inclination is spiritual, I would recommend to read the following email also: Let's expand our horizon w/Gitaji - how 2 b detached: duty & knowledge? (5 of 8 emails): /message/432 Hoping that contemplating on these bullets, you might be able to find your path - what is it that you are trying to achieve in your life? Good luck! humble regards, always at Thy Holy Feet On 11/30/06, Padmavathy AS <aspadma2003 wrote: Respected Readers,Very often we see that Lord Krishna is remainding Arjuna about his duties and warning,'Forget Not Your Duty, Arjuna'. Recently, I am in a dilema regarding duty. I checked the definition of duty in internet and found the following two : 1. Work that you are obliged to perform for moral or legal reasons; " the duties of the job " m2. The social force that binds you to your obligations and the courses of action demanded by that force; " we must instill a sense of duty in our children " ; Following is my dilema : Suppose a student works very hard, prepares very well and attends the exam (passing the exam is his aim and preparing and attending the exam is his duty). He comes to know that all his friends / classmates had got the question paper in advance and they could answer well. Let us assume that exam was " relative " and this boy stands last (inspite of his hardwork). He takes the exam again (by force from his parents and well wishers) inspite of his depression. This time, again he fails (or stand in the last) as mass copying was allowed and others could do well. Should this boy has to take the exam again with his approach? Or change himself with the mass (copying, cheating etc.,) or just forget this exam and take something else as this is not suiting his nature?Thank you for throwing some light and with best regards, Padma Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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