Guest guest Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 1) What according to the Gita are the stages of spiritual development? 2) How does one identiy what stage he is in, how to identify the highest? 3) What should one do or how does one conduct himself after attaining the highest? 4) Is it possible to live a normal social life after attaining the highest? 5) Does he have a social responsibility? ------------------------ The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Wherever possible, please quote Gita or other scriptures to substantiate the response 2. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 3. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 4. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations FROM MODERATOR Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Jai Shri Krishna 1) What according to the Gita are the stages of spiritual development? No stages but pathsGyan, Karma and Bhakti yoga. The last one is supreme according to Gita 2) How does one identiy what stage he is in, how to identify the highest? Just re-Think. Do you really need to know this? Not needed really. 3) What should one do or how does one conduct himself after attaining the highest?HE will take care. Don't worry 4) Is it possible to live a normal social life after attaining the highest? The life should become much better, since you got what everyone is craving for!!! 5) Does he have a social responsibility?If it at all is, HE will take care and show the path. Bhagwat prapty is swayamsiddh according to Pujya swamiji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Dear BhAgavatAs, Please, let us all NOT forget that there is a FOURTH mOksha-upAya given by our beloved Lord Sri Krishna in Bhagavad-Gita, namely - SaranAgati, as exemplified in the Gita-charama-sloka: " sarva dharmAn parityajya mAmekam saraNam vraja, ahamtvA sarva pApebhyO mOkshayishyAmi mAsuch:" So, there are 4 Mukti-mArgas, namely, JnAna, Karma, Bhakti and SaranAgathy. Of the four, Bhakti and SaranAgathy are the ONLY TWO highways for mOksha, whereas JnAna nad karma by themselves can not lead to mOksha-prApti BUT will lead an aspirant either to Bhakti or saranAgathy. Again between Bhakti and SaranAgathy, each may be treated as complimenting the other or the slight difference in their practice is better explained in the NyAya Sutras, like, markata-kishOra-nyAya and mArjAla-kishOra-nyAya. In Bhakti, it is, as MirAbai said " mere to giridhar gopAl ", where as in SaranAgathy, it will not stop at " mere to giridhar gopAl " BUT extends to " dUsaro na koee ". Of course, in both Bhakti and SaranAgathy, nishkAma-karma is the underlying principle, as always it should be. Srimad Azhagiyasingar Thiruvadigale SaraNam, adiyen, Venkat kanumalla.Chandramukhi L <l.chandramukhi wrote: Jai Shri Krishna 1) What according to the Gita are the stages of spiritual development? No stages but pathsGyan, Karma and Bhakti yoga. The last one is supreme according to Gita 2) How does one identiy what stage he is in, how to identify the highest? Just re-Think. Do you really need to know this? Not needed really. 3) What should one do or how does one conduct himself after attaining the highest?HE will take care. Don't worry 4) Is it possible to live a normal social life after attaining the highest? The life should become much better, since you got what everyone is craving for!!! 5) Does he have a social responsibility?If it at all is, HE will take care and show the path. Bhagwat prapty is swayamsiddh according to Pujya swamiji Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Jai Shri Krishna, If Jnana and Karma can not lead to Moksha but only lead to Bhakti and/or Sarnagiti, then these two (Jnana and Karma) Margas can not be considered as Mukti Margas because according to Venkatji, they (Jnana and Karma) do not lead to Mukti or Moksha (I assume Venkatji is not interpreting Mukti and Moksha differently). If that is the case, then you have to say that Bhakti and Sharnagati are only two Mukti Margas and not four, just like most of the devotional sects say that. I think there are several verses which are quoted by devotional sects claiming that Gita tells us that only through Bhakti, one can attain Moksha. However, Jnani can quote several verses which can support that Jnana and/or Karmi are complete paths lead to Moksha. This is an age old dispute and I think if one reads Gita without biases, he or she may find all four equally valid paths in Gita, but every sect, or every person who is influenced by a specific sect does not see the other verses. I do not remember off hand but can quote several verses for each of the four paths. Anyway, for example, Shri Krishna clearly says that Jnani Bhakta is my favorite. Now figure out, if Jnana is the Moksha Marga or Bhaktis is. Now the question comes why do enlightened Advaitic saints talk about Janana as only complete path and Dvatic saints talk about Bhakti as only complete path. I used to think about a lot. Then I read Swami Vivekananda. He has written commentaries on each path and when I read his commentary on Bhakti path, it seemed to be Swamji thinks BHakti is the supreme path, but when I read his commentary on Jnana or Karma path, he equally considered them as supreme paths. THerefore, if one reads only commentary on one path, he or she will think that Swamiji only supports one path as Mukti path, but that would be incorrect or incomplete understanding. Therefore, I think when a devotional (Dvaitic Saint) talks about Bhakti as the only path, they just want people of devotional nature to follow that path and not waver and so are Advatitic. I have thought through this issue a lot and reached to my understanding that the approach of SHri Aurobindo that Gita provides an integeral Yoga and not individual Yogas is the most appropriate. No Yoga stands on its own and are woven intrisically with each other. Without Jnana, Bhakti can be fanaticism and without Bhakti, Jnana is only an intellectual exercise. Sudhir ----- Radhekrishna Radhekrishna, I think the stages are according to the different bhavas or relationships we associate with HIM: Like Swami-bhava; Pita-bhava; Vatsalya-bhava; Sakhya-bhava; Prem-bhava; Gopi-bhava Raam Raam Anand Sharma ----- On Behalf Of venkat kanumallaWednesday, January 31, 2007 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Stages of spiritual development Dear BhAgavatAs, Please, let us all NOT forget that there is a FOURTH mOksha-upAya given by our beloved Lord Sri Krishna in Bhagavad-Gita, namely - SaranAgati, as exemplified in the Gita-charama-sloka: " sarva dharmAn parityajya mAmekam saraNam vraja, ahamtvA sarva pApebhyO mOkshayishyAmi mAsuch:" So, there are 4 Mukti-mArgas, namely, JnAna, Karma, Bhakti and SaranAgathy. Of the four, Bhakti and SaranAgathy are the ONLY TWO highways for mOksha, whereas JnAna nad karma by themselves can not lead to mOksha-prApti BUT will lead an aspirant either to Bhakti or saranAgathy. Again between Bhakti and SaranAgathy, each may be treated as complimenting the other or the slight difference in their practice is better explained in the NyAya Sutras, like, markata-kishOra-nyAya and mArjAla-kishOra-nyAya. In Bhakti, it is, as MirAbai said " mere to giridhar gopAl ", where as in SaranAgathy, it will not stop at " mere to giridhar gopAl " BUT extends to " dUsaro na koee ". Of course, in both Bhakti and SaranAgathy, nishkAma-karma is the underlying principle, as always it should be. Srimad Azhagiyasingar Thiruvadigale SaraNam, adiyen, Venkat kanumalla.Chandramukhi L <l.chandramukhi wrote: Jai Shri Krishna 1) What according to the Gita are the stages of spiritual development? No stages but pathsGyan, Karma and Bhakti yoga. The last one is supreme according to Gita 2) How does one identiy what stage he is in, how to identify the highest? Just re-Think. Do you really need to know this? Not needed really. 3) What should one do or how does one conduct himself after attaining the highest?HE will take care. Don't worry 4) Is it possible to live a normal social life after attaining the highest? The life should become much better, since you got what everyone is craving for!!! 5) Does he have a social responsibility?If it at all is, HE will take care and show the path. Bhagwat prapty is swayamsiddh according to Pujya swamiji Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. This e-mail contains Omaha Public Power District's confidential and proprietary information and is for use only by the intended recipient. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, this e-mail is not a contract offer, amendment, nor acceptance. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Namasteji: These are articulated very nicely along with the related responses. An integration of all paths toward Moksha ! May be with predominance of one or the others depending on Sadhaka's innate dispositions! I would add: There can be as many paths as there are dispositions! Why restrict Moksha to Gyana or Bhakti or any other only? Moksha Itself is being free from all paths in ultimate sense, right? Another point: If we can see clearly that Krishna is Sat-Chit-Ananda swarupa abiding in all, then Mamekam Sharanam vraja has to mean surrender to one's own true swarupa which all Bhaktas know to be Bhagwan only. Bottom line: When one longs to know truth, and is ready to give up his own life if it comes to that, universe will conspire to give him/her Moksha! Pratap Bhatt --- " KALRA, SUDHIR K " <skalra wrote: > Jai Shri Krishna, > If Jnana and Karma can not lead to Moksha but only > lead to Bhakti and/or > Sarnagiti, then these two (Jnana and Karma) Margas > can not be considered > as Mukti Margas because according to Venkatji, they > (Jnana and Karma) do > not lead to Mukti or Moksha (I assume Venkatji is > not interpreting Mukti > and Moksha differently). If that is the case, then > you have to say that > Bhakti and Sharnagati are only two Mukti Margas and > not four, just like > most of the devotional sects say that. > > I think there are several verses which are quoted by > devotional sects > claiming that Gita tells us that only through > Bhakti, one can attain > Moksha. However, Jnani can quote several verses > which can support that > Jnana and/or Karmi are complete paths lead to > Moksha. > > This is an age old dispute and I think if one reads > Gita without biases, > he or she may find all four equally valid paths in > Gita, but every sect, > or every person who is influenced by a specific sect > does not see the > other verses. I do not remember off hand but can > quote several verses > for each of the four paths. Anyway, for example, > Shri Krishna clearly > says that Jnani Bhakta is my favorite. Now figure > out, if Jnana is the > Moksha Marga or Bhaktis is. > > Now the question comes why do enlightened Advaitic > saints talk about > Janana as only complete path and Dvatic saints talk > about Bhakti as only > complete path. I used to think about a lot. Then I > read Swami > Vivekananda. He has written commentaries on each > path and when I read > his commentary on Bhakti path, it seemed to be > Swamji thinks BHakti is > the supreme path, but when I read his commentary on > Jnana or Karma path, > he equally considered them as supreme paths. > THerefore, if one reads > only commentary on one path, he or she will think > that Swamiji only > supports one path as Mukti path, but that would be > incorrect or > incomplete understanding. Therefore, I think when a > devotional (Dvaitic > Saint) talks about Bhakti as the only path, they > just want people of > devotional nature to follow that path and not waver > and so are > Advatitic. > > I have thought through this issue a lot and reached > to my understanding > that the approach of SHri Aurobindo that Gita > provides an integeral Yoga > and not individual Yogas is the most appropriate. > No Yoga stands on its > own and are woven intrisically with each other. > Without Jnana, Bhakti > can be fanaticism and without Bhakti, Jnana is only > an intellectual > exercise. > > I am copying my response to two most respected and > most knowledable > people (on Sanatana Dharma) I know of to comment and > enlighten all of us > on this issue. > > Regards and Love, > Sudhir > > ________________________________ > > > On > Behalf Of venkat kanumalla > Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:00 AM > > Re: Stages of spiritual > development > > > Dear BhAgavatAs, > Please, let us all NOT forget that there is a FOURTH > mOksha-upAya given > by our beloved Lord Sri Krishna in Bhagavad-Gita, > namely - SaranAgati, > as exemplified in the Gita-charama-sloka: > > " sarva dharmAn parityajya mAmekam saraNam vraja, > ahamtvA sarva pApebhyO mOkshayishyAmi mAsuch: " > > So, there are 4 Mukti-mArgas, namely, JnAna, Karma, > Bhakti and > SaranAgathy. > Of the four, Bhakti and SaranAgathy are the ONLY TWO > highways for > mOksha, whereas JnAna nad karma by themselves can > not lead to > mOksha-prApti BUT will lead an aspirant either to > Bhakti or saranAgathy. > Again between Bhakti and SaranAgathy, each may be > treated as > complimenting the other or the slight difference in > their practice is > better explained in the NyAya Sutras, like, > markata-kishOra-nyAya and > mArjAla-kishOra-nyAya. > > In Bhakti, it is, as MirAbai said " mere to giridhar > gopAl " , where as > in SaranAgathy, it will not stop at " mere to > giridhar gopAl " BUT > extends to " dUsaro na koee " . > Of course, in both Bhakti and SaranAgathy, > nishkAma-karma is the > underlying principle, as always it should be. > Srimad Azhagiyasingar Thiruvadigale SaraNam, > adiyen, > > Venkat kanumalla. > > Chandramukhi L <l.chandramukhi wrote: > > Jai Shri Krishna > 1) What according to the Gita are the stages of > spiritual > development? > No stages but paths > Gyan, Karma and Bhakti yoga. The last one is > supreme according > to Gita > 2) How does one identiy what stage he is in, how to > identify the > highest? > Just re-Think. Do you really need to know this? Not > needed > really. > 3) What should one do or how does one conduct > himself after > attaining > the highest? > HE will take care. Don't worry > 4) Is it possible to live a normal social life > after attaining > the highest? > The life should become much better, since you got > what everyone > is craving for!!! > 5) Does he have a social responsibility? > If it at all is, HE will take care and show the > path. > Bhagwat prapty is swayamsiddh according to Pujya > swamiji > > > > ________________________________ > > Access over 1 million songs - Music > Unlimited. > <http://pa./*http://us.rd./evt=36035/*http://music.yah > oo.com/unlimited/> > > This e-mail contains Omaha Public Power District's > confidential and proprietary information and is for > use only by the intended recipient. Unless > explicitly stated otherwise, this e-mail is not a > contract offer, amendment, nor acceptance. If you > are not the intended recipient you are notified that > disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any > action in reliance on the contents of this > information is strictly prohibited. > ______________________________\ ____ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Mail Q & A for great tips from Answers users. http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Loving Divine, Pranam. 1) Gitaji does indicate various stages of spiritual development. They are buried in the chapter titles or in the essence of the chapter. For example, when we start we develop dejection, we continue with the confused state asking (arguing) all kinds of questions, we try to acquire knowledge (let it be theoretical in the beginning) via self enquiry also, we understand our actions & fruits of actions, as we try to know God more we start developing love for Him - bhakti, our right action (meditation, prayer, chanting, etc) start bringing the right kind of knowledge - deeper understanding of God and thinning of our mind ( i.e., lesser thoughts), this leads us into detachment and mastery over our own self, more we go deeper into it we start developing some siddhis, we become closer to ourselves and it clicks what is God, then we literally want to understand about how this whole world got created and how it is controlled (manipulation of prakruti), we live in discriminatory state and continue to evaluate the worldly affairs minutely than before - not just us but how this whole shrusti is part of us, we keep on surrendering as we acquire more knowledge and devotion by continuing our action (tapasya), we ultimately understand and completely surrender telling God to take care of us. 2) most of the time we are in mixed stages but if we look back from where we stated we can say we are more clear headed / thinker than before or we have become more detached or now we don't care for something that was impossible for us to leave before or we are able to handle things in much more better way than how we did before when we stared 3) Nothing changes only your attitude towards the world, yourself is changed so you become more peaceful and content with what you God from God. Nothing remains for you to know or do. 4) Yes 5) From worldly eyes yes from inner state no. Hope this helps.... humble regards. always at Thy Divine Feet On 1/25/07, sri_ram_balu <sri_ram_balu wrote: 1) What according to the Gita are the stages of spiritual development? 2) How does one identiy what stage he is in, how to identify the highest? 3) What should one do or how does one conduct himself after attaining the highest?4) Is it possible to live a normal social life after attaining the highest? 5) Does he have a social responsibility?------------------------The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Wherever possible, please quote Gita or other scriptures tosubstantiate the response2. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up totwenty line maximum, if possible).3. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 4. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizationsFROM MODERATORRam Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Thanks, for the great explanation. Here is another view - For a life, the intellect does not correctly know who he/she is. Everyone of us is always in search of his/her true identity. All efforts in this search activity is called 'Karma'. 'Jyana' is an amount/symptom of success in the 'Karma' that acts as a compass to suggest if the direction is right. 'Bhakti' is self-confidence that he/she knew the source of the knowledge within him/her. Regards K G Misra Original Message: ----------------- Pratap Bhatt Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:23:03 -0800 (PST) RE: Stages of spiritual development Namasteji: These are articulated very nicely along with the related responses. An integration of all paths toward Moksha ! May be with predominance of one or the others depending on Sadhaka's innate dispositions! I would add: There can be as many paths as there are dispositions! Why restrict Moksha to Gyana or Bhakti or any other only? Moksha Itself is being free from all paths in ultimate sense, right? Another point: If we can see clearly that Krishna is Sat-Chit-Ananda swarupa abiding in all, then Mamekam Sharanam vraja has to mean surrender to one's own true swarupa which all Bhaktas know to be Bhagwan only. Bottom line: When one longs to know truth, and is ready to give up his own life if it comes to that, universe will conspire to give him/her Moksha! Pratap Bhatt --- " KALRA, SUDHIR K " <skalra wrote: > Jai Shri Krishna, > If Jnana and Karma can not lead to Moksha but only > lead to Bhakti and/or > Sarnagiti, then these two (Jnana and Karma) Margas > can not be considered > as Mukti Margas because according to Venkatji, they > (Jnana and Karma) do > not lead to Mukti or Moksha (I assume Venkatji is > not interpreting Mukti > and Moksha differently). If that is the case, then > you have to say that > Bhakti and Sharnagati are only two Mukti Margas and > not four, just like > most of the devotional sects say that. > > I think there are several verses which are quoted by > devotional sects > claiming that Gita tells us that only through > Bhakti, one can attain > Moksha. However, Jnani can quote several verses > which can support that > Jnana and/or Karmi are complete paths lead to > Moksha. > > This is an age old dispute and I think if one reads > Gita without biases, > he or she may find all four equally valid paths in > Gita, but every sect, > or every person who is influenced by a specific sect > does not see the > other verses. I do not remember off hand but can > quote several verses > for each of the four paths. Anyway, for example, > Shri Krishna clearly > says that Jnani Bhakta is my favorite. Now figure > out, if Jnana is the > Moksha Marga or Bhaktis is. > > Now the question comes why do enlightened Advaitic > saints talk about > Janana as only complete path and Dvatic saints talk > about Bhakti as only > complete path. I used to think about a lot. Then I > read Swami > Vivekananda. He has written commentaries on each > path and when I read > his commentary on Bhakti path, it seemed to be > Swamji thinks BHakti is > the supreme path, but when I read his commentary on > Jnana or Karma path, > he equally considered them as supreme paths. > THerefore, if one reads > only commentary on one path, he or she will think > that Swamiji only > supports one path as Mukti path, but that would be > incorrect or > incomplete understanding. Therefore, I think when a > devotional (Dvaitic > Saint) talks about Bhakti as the only path, they > just want people of > devotional nature to follow that path and not waver > and so are > Advatitic. > > I have thought through this issue a lot and reached > to my understanding > that the approach of SHri Aurobindo that Gita > provides an integeral Yoga > and not individual Yogas is the most appropriate. > No Yoga stands on its > own and are woven intrisically with each other. > Without Jnana, Bhakti > can be fanaticism and without Bhakti, Jnana is only > an intellectual > exercise. > > I am copying my response to two most respected and > most knowledable > people (on Sanatana Dharma) I know of to comment and > enlighten all of us > on this issue. > > Regards and Love, > Sudhir > > ________________________________ > > > On > Behalf Of venkat kanumalla > Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:00 AM > > Re: Stages of spiritual > development > > > Dear BhAgavatAs, > Please, let us all NOT forget that there is a FOURTH > mOksha-upAya given > by our beloved Lord Sri Krishna in Bhagavad-Gita, > namely - SaranAgati, > as exemplified in the Gita-charama-sloka: > > " sarva dharmAn parityajya mAmekam saraNam vraja, > ahamtvA sarva pApebhyO mOkshayishyAmi mAsuch: " > > So, there are 4 Mukti-mArgas, namely, JnAna, Karma, > Bhakti and > SaranAgathy. > Of the four, Bhakti and SaranAgathy are the ONLY TWO > highways for > mOksha, whereas JnAna nad karma by themselves can > not lead to > mOksha-prApti BUT will lead an aspirant either to > Bhakti or saranAgathy. > Again between Bhakti and SaranAgathy, each may be > treated as > complimenting the other or the slight difference in > their practice is > better explained in the NyAya Sutras, like, > markata-kishOra-nyAya and > mArjAla-kishOra-nyAya. > > In Bhakti, it is, as MirAbai said " mere to giridhar > gopAl " , where as > in SaranAgathy, it will not stop at " mere to > giridhar gopAl " BUT > extends to " dUsaro na koee " . > Of course, in both Bhakti and SaranAgathy, > nishkAma-karma is the > underlying principle, as always it should be. > Srimad Azhagiyasingar Thiruvadigale SaraNam, > adiyen, > > Venkat kanumalla. > > Chandramukhi L <l.chandramukhi wrote: > > Jai Shri Krishna > 1) What according to the Gita are the stages of > spiritual > development? > No stages but paths > Gyan, Karma and Bhakti yoga. The last one is > supreme according > to Gita > 2) How does one identiy what stage he is in, how to > identify the > highest? > Just re-Think. Do you really need to know this? Not > needed > really. > 3) What should one do or how does one conduct > himself after > attaining > the highest? > HE will take care. Don't worry > 4) Is it possible to live a normal social life > after attaining > the highest? > The life should become much better, since you got > what everyone > is craving for!!! > 5) Does he have a social responsibility? > If it at all is, HE will take care and show the > path. > Bhagwat prapty is swayamsiddh according to Pujya > swamiji > > > > ________________________________ > > Access over 1 million songs - Music > Unlimited. > <http://pa./*http://us.rd./evt=36035/*http://music.yah > oo.com/unlimited/> > > This e-mail contains Omaha Public Power District's > confidential and proprietary information and is for > use only by the intended recipient. Unless > explicitly stated otherwise, this e-mail is not a > contract offer, amendment, nor acceptance. If you > are not the intended recipient you are notified that > disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any > action in reliance on the contents of this > information is strictly prohibited. > __________________________ ________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Mail Q & A for great tips from Answers users. http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- mail2web.com – Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft® Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2007 Report Share Posted February 23, 2007 Hello all, This is my understanding regarding the various paths. In 5th Chapter, Lord says, the person who views every path as ONE is the yogi. "5:5. The level of advancement achieved by the followers of sankhya is achieved by yogis, as well. He is right who sees that sankhya and yoga are one in essence." Here the Lord mentions the person who views "sankya" and "yoga" as ONE is truely a seer. What I understand is, each and any or every path is OK as long as you feel right in your heart. There is no such thing as one is superior and another is NOT. All the paths are given / portrayed By Lord, to suit the taste, sentiments, nature of each person's personality. All we can do is try to follow the path we feel and the rest is left to Him. For example: a parent has four children..each person's personality is different and each one chooses his/her own path in this world.(for exam..here its materialist example). Still, whatever the path chosen, the feeling of the parent in the heart which can only be felt will be the same towards all to the same extent being all his/her children. Likewise, If we feel like his children(again based on different personalities..each one views God as different, friend, beloved, parent, child, wife, husband etc), then it does not matter which path u follow. There is no good or better..everything or anything is OK and that same ONE only. See every path as that PATH which leads to our understanding of our real SELF. it does not matter which path you choose as long as it is inclined towards that Divinity. Again, even if our mind is not inclined towards that, still , even if the slightest feeling of KNOWING IT/HIM is there, you will definitely get into that PATH by the DIVINE grace. Thank you and have an wonderful weekend Regards. "KALRA, SUDHIR K" <skalra wrote: Jai Shri Krishna, If Jnana and Karma can not lead to Moksha but only lead to Bhakti and/or Sarnagiti, then these two (Jnana and Karma) Margas can not be considered as Mukti Margas because according to Venkatji, they (Jnana and Karma) do not lead to Mukti or Moksha (I assume Venkatji is not interpreting Mukti and Moksha differently). If that is the case, then you have to say that Bhakti and Sharnagati are only two Mukti Margas and not four, just like most of the devotional sects say that. I think there are several verses which are quoted by devotional sects claiming that Gita tells us that only through Bhakti, one can attain Moksha. However, Jnani can quote several verses which can support that Jnana and/or Karmi are complete paths lead to Moksha. This is an age old dispute and I think if one reads Gita without biases, he or she may find all four equally valid paths in Gita, but every sect, or every person who is influenced by a specific sect does not see the other verses. I do not remember off hand but can quote several verses for each of the four paths. Anyway, for example, Shri Krishna clearly says that Jnani Bhakta is my favorite. Now figure out, if Jnana is the Moksha Marga or Bhaktis is. Now the question comes why do enlightened Advaitic saints talk about Janana as only complete path and Dvatic saints talk about Bhakti as only complete path. I used to think about a lot. Then I read Swami Vivekananda. He has written commentaries on each path and when I read his commentary on Bhakti path, it seemed to be Swamji thinks BHakti is the supreme path, but when I read his commentary on Jnana or Karma path, he equally considered them as supreme paths. THerefore, if one reads only commentary on one path, he or she will think that Swamiji only supports one path as Mukti path, but that would be incorrect or incomplete understanding. Therefore, I think when a devotional (Dvaitic Saint) talks about Bhakti as the only path, they just want people of devotional nature to follow that path and not waver and so are Advatitic. I have thought through this issue a lot and reached to my understanding that the approach of SHri Aurobindo that Gita provides an integeral Yoga and not individual Yogas is the most appropriate. No Yoga stands on its own and are woven intrisically with each other. Without Jnana, Bhakti can be fanaticism and without Bhakti, Jnana is only an intellectual exercise. Sudhir-----Radhekrishna Radhekrishna, I think the stages are according to the different bhavas or relationships we associate with HIM: Like Swami-bhava; Pita-bhava; Vatsalya-bhava; Sakhya-bhava; Prem-bhava; Gopi-bhava Raam Raam Anand Sharma ----- On Behalf Of venkat kanumallaWednesday, January 31, 2007 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Stages of spiritual development Dear BhAgavatAs, Please, let us all NOT forget that there is a FOURTH mOksha-upAya given by our beloved Lord Sri Krishna in Bhagavad-Gita, namely - SaranAgati, as exemplified in the Gita-charama-sloka: " sarva dharmAn parityajya mAmekam saraNam vraja, ahamtvA sarva pApebhyO mOkshayishyAmi mAsuch:" So, there are 4 Mukti-mArgas, namely, JnAna, Karma, Bhakti and SaranAgathy. Of the four, Bhakti and SaranAgathy are the ONLY TWO highways for mOksha, whereas JnAna nad karma by themselves can not lead to mOksha-prApti BUT will lead an aspirant either to Bhakti or saranAgathy. Again between Bhakti and SaranAgathy, each may be treated as complimenting the other or the slight difference in their practice is better explained in the NyAya Sutras, like, markata-kishOra-nyAya and mArjAla-kishOra-nyAya. In Bhakti, it is, as MirAbai said " mere to giridhar gopAl ", where as in SaranAgathy, it will not stop at " mere to giridhar gopAl " BUT extends to " dUsaro na koee ". Of course, in both Bhakti and SaranAgathy, nishkAma-karma is the underlying principle, as always it should be. Srimad Azhagiyasingar Thiruvadigale SaraNam, adiyen, Venkat kanumalla.Chandramukhi L <l.chandramukhi > wrote: Jai Shri Krishna 1) What according to the Gita are the stages of spiritual development? No stages but pathsGyan, Karma and Bhakti yoga. The last one is supreme according to Gita 2) How does one identiy what stage he is in, how to identify the highest? Just re-Think. Do you really need to know this? Not needed really. 3) What should one do or how does one conduct himself after attaining the highest?HE will take care. Don't worry 4) Is it possible to live a normal social life after attaining the highest? The life should become much better, since you got what everyone is craving for!!! 5) Does he have a social responsibility?If it at all is, HE will take care and show the path. Bhagwat prapty is swayamsiddh according to Pujya swamiji Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited. This e-mail contains Omaha Public Power District's confidential and proprietary information and is for use only by the intended recipient. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, this e-mail is not a contract offer, amendment, nor acceptance. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Never miss an email again! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.