Spontaneity - Where in the Gita ?

[Guest guest]

Many spiritual teachers talk about reaching a state of spontaneity

which is the highest state.

 

What is that state & what are the implications?

We plan our actions in advance using thought. After we have completed an action

we validate it. Let's keep this aside for

now.

 

Is there a cosmic plan? A plan according to which every atom

vibrates individually and collectively and forms different elements,

materials, shapes and sizes and dance as all that is created. They

say there is. Then what about this guy who plans and validates his

actions? Why does he do that? That is nothing but lila, the game by

which the universal self who is the only doer in the whole of

creation creates separate identities, makes them feel separate and

think they are the doer because of which they plan and validate

their actions assuming individual identity and doership. To give up

this doership and reach spontaneity is quite a task which requires

lot of courage because the fictious individual is used to validating

his & other peoples' actions and planning for future actions, the

lack of which according to him will be insanity.

 

Definitely Krishna would have mentioned about this spontaneity in

the Gita. Can someone remind him about that ?

 

Vasudeva Sarvam.

 

 

from MODERATOR

 

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

 

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substantiate the response

 

2. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line

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6. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the

message is going to the entire group.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

||Shri Hari||

 

Ram Ram

 

My humble thoughts and feelings in red on

a beautifully put forward message for your deliberations and comments.

 

Ram Ram

 

 

 

Many spiritual teachers talk about reaching a state of

spontaneity which is the highest state.

 

What is that state & what are the implications?

That state is being able

to act without the use of the mind or intellect – i.e. to act according

to your first spontaneous “Voice/Order” of the Heart. You can only

do this if you LISTEN to the “Voice/Order” of your heart and not

let your mind and intellect suffocate/crush it to death. The implication of

such action will be that the action will be as Pure as God intended it to be.

We plan our actions in advance using thought. After we

have completed an action we validate it. Let's keep this aside for now.

Just a small point I came across – we all

actually ONLY act according to what our heart says because that is always the first

to speak. Our intellect actually fools us by validating the voice/thoughts of the

heart and taking the credit for it. And then good people end up thinking or

rather believing that they are acting in accordance with the voice of our Heart

and the worldly people say that it is foolish and not practical to act in

accordance with the voice of your heart and they think that they act in

accordance with their mind and intellect.

Is there a cosmic plan? Yes, and it is too beautiful for words to describe.

A plan according to which every atom vibrates

individually and collectively and forms different elements, materials, shapes

and sizes and dance as all that is created. They say there is. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind about this fact.

Then what about this guy who plans and validates his actions?

Why does he do that? Because he is a

fool (Gita 3:27, 15:10 and others which I do not recollect at present).

That is nothing but lila, the game by which the

universal self who is the only doer in the whole of creation creates separate

identities, (NO) makes them feel separate and

think they are the doer (NO) because of which they plan

and validate their actions assuming individual identity and doership (NO. They do it only because of the Desire that they have

created). To give up this doership and reach spontaneity is quite

a task (Not at all if you leave your

own created desire) which

requires lot of courage (belief in God

is what is more required – not courage) because the fictious individual is used to

validating his & other peoples' actions and planning for future actions (he himself has spoilt his habit and has allowed his

intellect to fool him. The intellect which was an instrument meant to be used

for our benefit, has been made the master and we have become its Slave),

the lack of which according to him will be insanity (again

his foolishness as there will not be and cannot be any insanity – there will

only be Love – because that is the only purpose of the creation of the world

by God.)

Definitely Krishna

would have mentioned about this spontaneity in the Gita. Can someone remind him

about that ?

Our spontaneity

is natural. It is the natural state and that is why it is the Highest. It was

not required to be specifically mentioned the way we want to see it because Arjun

had no qualms in surrendering his ego like we have. The pronouncement of the preaching

started from verse 2:11 after Arjun truly surrendered His ego (Gita 2:7). To achieve

this state of spontaneity the first thing that is required is a stable mind and

intellect – then only can you even think of achieving spontaneity. God

has clearly mentioned in the second chapter itself that to be able to be of

stable mind, which is a precondition to achieve spontaneity, you have to let go

of your desires (created by your mind due to its connection/dependence/enjoyment

with/of the senses/and its objects and the validation of such desires by the misutilised

intellect resulting in the disregard of the power of discrimination available

only in man) by which you become of stable mind (Gita 2:55).

So to conclude, I do not think it is

required to remind Krishna but it is high time that we realize, identify and

ACCEPT our own mistakes and foolishness and start becoming more ‘spontaneous’

by leaving our ego and selfishness. In fact we do not need to become more spontaneous,

we just need to let the spontaneity shine through by not letting our mind and

intellect (and ego) block/change its path.

I would be obliged to receive comments on the

above from experts on the Gita – since I am a very new (and lazy) student

of the Gita.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Another perspective on the subject is this:

I can live as a separate individual in society

assuming a role of the decision maker and doer of my

actions, but I cannot always be happy with the results

of such actions. This I have experienced, right?

Then I inquire why is it so that I cannot be lastingly

happy, peaceful, satisfied? Why do I have to keep on

desiring this, that and all to be happy?

I may find, upon inquiry(Gyan), that I am not,

afterall, a separate individual I think and believe I

am! This is because I cannot define myself as this or

that absolutely, rather I have to say my name is such

and such, I was born at a place, I am son of someone,

I am a father/brother/sister/husband/wife of someone

or I am Indian or I am an engineer, or I am fat, or I

am ...........so and so forth. It is almost a never

ending list! I am what I believe I am, is only a

relative truth. I am Pratap only because others are

what they believe they are, and the table, chair or

tree etc etc are not me. SO you see I cannot say who I

really am absolutely. My physical existence is also

dependent on sun, air, water, earth with gravity,

cosmic laws, other human beings and animals.

Physically also I am not separate.

Then I discover by Sadhana and Grace that my reality

is also the reality of this world and the reality of

everyone else I depend on, entire cosmos for that

matter. We are all ONE Reality of Being Cosnciousenss.

There is no other experience that I can truly validate

as myself or not-myself, mine or not mine, other than

being conscious(sat-chit)of whatever and whenever(not

limited to space or time).

With trust in this truth of myself being Consciousness

Pure, I try to live as an individual apparantly doing

actions, validating actions etc etc BUT free of

suffering, because there is NOBODY, no individual

there to suffer! It is all spontaneity expressing from

moment to moment from this body-mind organism.

Spontaneity is Itself experiencing being

Pratap(mind-body tool), and all of us at the same

time.

This is not hard to understand, is it?

Saadar Pranaam........Pratap

--- sri_ram_balu <sri_ram_balu wrote:

 

> Many spiritual teachers talk about reaching a state

> of spontaneity

> which is the highest state.

>

> What is that state & what are the implications?

> We plan our actions in advance using thought. After

> we have completed an action we validate it. Let's

> keep this aside for

> now.

>

> Is there a cosmic plan? A plan according to which

> every atom

> vibrates individually and collectively and forms

> different elements,

> materials, shapes and sizes and dance as all that is

> created. They

> say there is. Then what about this guy who plans and

> validates his

> actions? Why does he do that? That is nothing but

> lila, the game by

> which the universal self who is the only doer in the

> whole of

> creation creates separate identities, makes them

> feel separate and

> think they are the doer because of which they plan

> and validate

> their actions assuming individual identity and

> doership. To give up

> this doership and reach spontaneity is quite a task

> which requires

> lot of courage because the fictious individual is

> used to validating

> his & other peoples' actions and planning for future

> actions, the

> lack of which according to him will be insanity.

>

> Definitely Krishna would have mentioned about this

> spontaneity in

> the Gita. Can someone remind him about that ?

>

> Vasudeva Sarvam.

>

>

> from MODERATOR

>

> The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk

> discussions.

>

> 1. Wherever possible, please quote Gita or other

> scriptures to

> substantiate the response

>

> 2. Kindly make your responses concise and to the

> point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if and when

> possible).

>

> 3. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.

>

> 4. Please do not include links to other sites or

> other organizations

>

> 5. Please do not include your personal information

> such as phone number, address, location, position,

> organization etc.

>

> 6. Kindly do not address the response to a

> particular individual, since the message is going to

> the entire group.

>

> MODERATOR

> Ram Ram

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

The great GOD in the battle field inorder to establish the path of truth

and rightousness advised Arjuna to abandon ego and fight for justice and

right to survive by spontaneity. Even Vivek(heart) and mind are to be

ceased for achieving spontaneity and rise above all discriminations and

fight against egoist and selfish people enjoining power.He just followed

these advises by realisation of the fact that no body shall be in power

for ever but actions /deeds must be without any partiality.For achieving

spontaneity, you have to let go of your desires and strive for

establishing truth,honesty and rightousness.Otherwise the misutilised

intellect will result in the disregard of the power of discrimination

between goodness,passionate and badness and the world shall become

unhealthy for living.Sheding ego and arrogance isavailable only in stable

and honest mind

REGARDS

||Shri Hari||

>

>

>

> Ram Ram

>

>

>

> My humble thoughts and feelings in red on a beautifully put forward

> message

> for your deliberations and comments.

>

>

>

> Ram Ram

>

> Many spiritual teachers talk about reaching a state of spontaneity which

> is

> the highest state.

>

> What is that state & what are the implications?

>

> That state is being able to act without the use of the mind or intellect -

> i.e. to act according to your first spontaneous " Voice/Order " of the

> Heart.

> You can only do this if you LISTEN to the " Voice/Order " of your heart and

> not let your mind and intellect suffocate/crush it to death. The

> implication

> of such action will be that the action will be as Pure as God intended it

> to

> be.

>

> We plan our actions in advance using thought. After we have completed an

> action we validate it. Let's keep this aside for now.

> Just a small point I came across - we all actually ONLY act according to

> what our heart says because that is always the first to speak. Our

> intellect

> actually fools us by validating the voice/thoughts of the heart and taking

> the credit for it. And then good people end up thinking or rather

> believing

> that they are acting in accordance with the voice of our Heart and the

> worldly people say that it is foolish and not practical to act in

> accordance

> with the voice of your heart and they think that they act in accordance

> with

> their mind and intellect.

>

> Is there a cosmic plan? Yes, and it is too beautiful for words to

> describe.

>

> A plan according to which every atom vibrates individually and

> collectively

> and forms different elements, materials, shapes and sizes and dance as all

> that is created. They say there is. There is no doubt whatsoever in my

> mind

> about this fact.

>

> Then what about this guy who plans and validates his actions? Why does he

> do

> that? Because he is a fool (Gita 3:27, 15:10 and others which I do not

> recollect at present).

>

> That is nothing but lila, the game by which the universal self who is the

> only doer in the whole of creation creates separate identities, (NO) makes

> them feel separate and think they are the doer (NO) because of which they

> plan and validate their actions assuming individual identity and doership

> (NO. They do it only because of the Desire that they have created). To

> give

> up this doership and reach spontaneity is quite a task (Not at all if you

> leave your own created desire) which requires lot of courage (belief in

> God

> is what is more required - not courage) because the fictious individual is

> used to validating his & other peoples' actions and planning for future

> actions (he himself has spoilt his habit and has allowed his intellect to

> fool him. The intellect which was an instrument meant to be used for our

> benefit, has been made the master and we have become its Slave), the lack

> of

> which according to him will be insanity (again his foolishness as there

> will

> not be and cannot be any insanity - there will only be Love - because that

> is the only purpose of the creation of the world by God.)

>

> Definitely Krishna would have mentioned about this spontaneity in the

> Gita.

> Can someone remind him about that ?

> Our spontaneity is natural. It is the natural state and that is why it is

> the Highest. It was not required to be specifically mentioned the way we

> want to see it because Arjun had no qualms in surrendering his ego like we

> have. The pronouncement of the preaching started from verse 2:11 after

> Arjun

> truly surrendered His ego (Gita 2:7). To achieve this state of spontaneity

> the first thing that is required is a stable mind and intellect - then

> only

> can you even think of achieving spontaneity. God has clearly mentioned in

> the second chapter itself that to be able to be of stable mind, which is a

> precondition to achieve spontaneity, you have to let go of your desires

> (created by your mind due to its connection/dependence/enjoyment with/of

> the

> senses/and its objects and the validation of such desires by the

> misutilised

> intellect resulting in the disregard of the power of discrimination

> available only in man) by which you become of stable mind (Gita 2:55).

>

> So to conclude, I do not think it is required to remind Krishna but it is

> high time that we realize, identify and ACCEPT our own mistakes and

> foolishness and start becoming more 'spontaneous' by leaving our ego and

> selfishness. In fact we do not need to become more spontaneous, we just

> need

> to let the spontaneity shine through by not letting our mind and intellect

> (and ego) block/change its path.

>

> I would be obliged to receive comments on the above from experts on the

> Gita

> - since I am a very new (and lazy) student of the Gita.

>

>