Are we mere Puppets? Where Does the Philosophy of Karma Come In ?

[Guest guest]

Jai Shri Sitaramjiki, Jai Veer Hanuman.

 

Mahoday,

 

I want to have a clarification and confirmation of the following:-

 

The verse you have quoted from the Gita says that it's ME, i.e.

Bhagwan Krishna who does everything, which is good or makes us do

whatever we do or do not do. Your next paragraph also says that

even the demonic ones get strength from him only. Does this mean

that there is no praise for a good person and no blame for a bad

one. So, in effect we are all 'marionettes' or dolls playing in

the hands of God and whatever we do or whatever happens to us has in

effect been initiated and done by God himself and not by us. It

also means that all whatever is happening in the world has been

preplanned and fated; (Maktoub, in Arabic) by God himself; then

where does the philosophy of Karma comes in and how a person is

rewarded for a good deed or punished for a bad deed;

or why one person acts rightly ( i.e. doing good to others) and

another one wrongly (i.e. doing harm to others) reacting to the same

circumstance.

 

While the theory of Karma is somewhat confusing to me, looking at

the history of mankind and the behaviour pattern, of individuals

etc. it appears to me that HE DOES EVERYTHING through us and that he

brings in the world Bhagwan Ram, Bhagwan Krishna or Jesus Christ or

Mohammed and makes them succeed or fail according to his volition

and plan, whatever the latter may be.

 

Your comments / clarification would be appreciated.

 

Hari Bol. Ram Ram.

 

Sher Agrawal

 

On 6/1/07, Sadhak <sadhak_insight > wrote:

:Shree Hari:

 

Adhik Jyeshth Purnima, Vikram Samvat 2064, Shukravar

1st June, 2007, Friday

 

Ram Ram

 

God has said in the Gita -

 

" Yadhyadvibhootimatsatvam Srimadoorjitmeva vaa;

tattdevaavagacch tvam mama tejonshsambhavam. " (Gita 10:41).

 

" All that is glorious, brillaint, powerful, know that to be a

manifestation of Me, a spark of My splendour. " (Gita 10:41).

 

Even those demonic ones, that go against God, receive strength from

God, then what to speak of those that are worshipping God ? Would

they not receive strength from Him? .........................

 

From " Guru Bina Mukti Nahin " in Hindi pg 36-37 by Swami Ramsukhdasji

 

Ram Ram

 

FROM THE MODERATOR

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

 

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts

related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must

further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate the response

3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.

4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to

twenty line maximum, if possible).

5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.

6. Please do not include links to other sites or other

organizations

7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual,

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

 

MODERATOR

 

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhaks, Namaste!

Most of our questions arise from our assumptions about

God as someone separate from us, and created this

world and has bound people by predeterministic way!

I say if one understands God first, through

experience, then see if that person can commit any

crime! simply impossible!

Such questions, humbly pointed, are like putting

cart before horse!

We are all in Totality Ishwara, God! Not individually!

We are not separate individuals because we cannot

survive even physically in isolation. We need air,

sunlight, water, foods which are all universal in

nature! We also need people to be with psychologically

too! there is nothing personal about our existence!

Let us realize our true identity as one whole Being

first!

God is our true identity, which is total freedom! Such

freedom acts through us at every moment; we are free

to act in the best interests of all. Destiny is not

fixed in terms of time in the past but is pre-ordained

in the sense of freedom to act out of clarity of who

we are at every moment without desires and fears!

Namaskar! .......Pratap

--- sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight wrote:

 

> Jai Shri Sitaramjiki, Jai Veer Hanuman.

>

> Mahoday,

>

> I want to have a clarification and confirmation of

> the following:-

>

> The verse you have quoted from the Gita says that

> it's ME, i.e.

> Bhagwan Krishna who does everything, which is good

> or makes us do

> whatever we do or do not do. Your next paragraph

> also says that

> even the demonic ones get strength from him only.

> Does this mean

> that there is no praise for a good person and no

> blame for a bad

> one. So, in effect we are all 'marionettes' or

> dolls playing in

> the hands of God and whatever we do or whatever

> happens to us has in

> effect been initiated and done by God himself and

> not by us. It

> also means that all whatever is happening in the

> world has been

> preplanned and fated; (Maktoub, in Arabic) by God

> himself; then

> where does the philosophy of Karma comes in and how

> a person is

> rewarded for a good deed or punished for a bad deed;

>

> or why one person acts rightly ( i.e. doing good to

> others) and

> another one wrongly (i.e. doing harm to others)

> reacting to the same

> circumstance.

>

> While the theory of Karma is somewhat confusing to

> me, looking at

> the history of mankind and the behaviour pattern,

> of individuals

> etc. it appears to me that HE DOES EVERYTHING

> through us and that he

> brings in the world Bhagwan Ram, Bhagwan Krishna or

> Jesus Christ or

> Mohammed and makes them succeed or fail according

> to his volition

> and plan, whatever the latter may be.

>

> Your comments / clarification would be appreciated.

>

> Hari Bol. Ram Ram.

>

> Sher Agrawal

>

> On 6/1/07, Sadhak <sadhak_insight > wrote:

>

> :Shree Hari:

>

> Adhik Jyeshth Purnima, Vikram Samvat 2064, Shukravar

> 1st June, 2007, Friday

>

> Ram Ram

>

> God has said in the Gita -

>

> " Yadhyadvibhootimatsatvam Srimadoorjitmeva vaa;

> tattdevaavagacch tvam mama tejonshsambhavam. " (Gita

> 10:41).

>

> " All that is glorious, brillaint, powerful, know

> that to be a

> manifestation of Me, a spark of My splendour. " (Gita

> 10:41).

>

> Even those demonic ones, that go against God,

> receive strength from

> God, then what to speak of those that are

> worshipping God ? Would

> they not receive strength from Him?

> .........................

>

> From " Guru Bina Mukti Nahin " in Hindi pg 36-37 by

> Swami Ramsukhdasji

>

> Ram Ram

>

> FROM THE MODERATOR

> The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk

> discussions.

>

> 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify

> their doubts

> related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted,

> they must

> further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.

> 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other

> scriptures to

> substantiate the response

> 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs

> etc.

> 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the

> point. (Up to

> twenty line maximum, if possible).

> 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.

> 6. Please do not include links to other sites or

> other

> organizations

> 7. Please do not include your personal information

> such as phone

> number, address etc.

> 8. Kindly do not address the response to a

> particular individual,

> since the message is going to the entire group.

> 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will

> be posted.

> 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the

> posting, if content

> is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to

> the group.

>

> MODERATOR

>

> Ram Ram