Is it Acceptable per Geeta to Make All Actions (Good and Bad) an Offering to God?

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Rajeevji has asked the following question.

 

One doubt. If I do killing, rape, stealing and all other socially

disagreable things by giving all its merits and demerits

to " Krishna " , " Karmanye Vadhikaraste. .... " is it an acceptable

behaviour as per Geeta? If not what are all the verses which says

about only non-harming things to be done for " Krishna " ?

With a lot of compassion,

 

Rajeev

 

Sharing my understanding of Gita and Vedanta, I can answer this way.

When I act out of not knowing the truth of myself, by simply acting

out of my conditioning, my belief about me as independently existing

entity, my actions are going to be selfish, and harmful! I am only

looking to serve me or what I consider mine(this may include a long

list of things, ideas, beliefs, caste, nationality, etc., I am

attached to) and in the process hurt others.

 

If I look closely I cannot say who I am without saying I am father,

son, brother, husband, Indian, Hindu, educated, with likes and

dislikes etc etc. I discover that I need many references to say who I

am, so many pillars to stand as I cannot stand on my own.

Now I discover, oh, these are all roles I am playing, but none of

these I can be simultaneously. This discovery inspires me to act

differently, out of truth about myself being none I consider I, me,

or mine!

WIth this understanding comes a conviction of Non-Doership! I

discover that actually it is the Knowledge, acquired through God given

mind, intellect, and body that acts, which I consider to be me in

ignorance. Now with this understanding, trust, devotion, and grace of

God, my actions are going to be as if done by God, always benevalent

to all I am entrusted! I cannot act in harmful way, come what may

happen. The truth I see acts for me, not the selfish me I thought I

was! So I see realizing this truth is of utmost important and when I

do, for sure, I cannot act violently!

Dhanyavaad, and Namaskar....Pratap

[Guest guest]

> SIR

PROBABLY U HAVE INTERPRETED THE VERSE WRONGLY. LORD SAID TO ARJUNA THAT

WHILE PERFORMING ANY ACTION DO NOT EXPECT THE RESULT BUT IN THE PROCESS OF

ACTION NATURE AND INTELLECT GUIDES THE ACT,MIND IS TO BE APPLIED WITH

ASCETIC UNDERSTANDING WHILE PERFORMING.YOU MAY GET A BAD OR A GOOD RESULT

IT WILL NOT MATTER FOR YOU .ACTION EXECUTED MUST BE SELFLESS AND WITH

GOODNESS.THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY ATTACHMENT OR AIM TO GET SOMETHING IN

RETURN. ANY ACTION WITH AIM OR ATTACHMENT MAY CAUSE GRIEF.THEREFORE ONLY

DUTY IS TO BE PERFORMED WITHOUT ANY DESIRE FOR SELF.THEN ONLY THERE SHALL

BE " ANANDA IN CHITA "

 

REGARDS

N.PANDA

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> Rajeevji has asked the following question.

>

> One doubt. If I do killing, rape, stealing and all other socially

> disagreable things by giving all its merits and demerits

> to " Krishna " , " Karmanye Vadhikaraste. .... " is it an acceptable

> behaviour as per Geeta? If not what are all the verses which says

> about only non-harming things to be done for " Krishna " ?

> With a lot of compassion,

>

> Rajeev

>

> Sharing my understanding of Gita and Vedanta, I can answer this way.

> When I act out of not knowing the truth of myself, by simply acting

> out of my conditioning, my belief about me as independently existing

> entity, my actions are going to be selfish, and harmful! I am only

> looking to serve me or what I consider mine(this may include a long

> list of things, ideas, beliefs, caste, nationality, etc., I am

> attached to) and in the process hurt others.

>

> If I look closely I cannot say who I am without saying I am father,

> son, brother, husband, Indian, Hindu, educated, with likes and

> dislikes etc etc. I discover that I need many references to say who I

> am, so many pillars to stand as I cannot stand on my own.

> Now I discover, oh, these are all roles I am playing, but none of

> these I can be simultaneously. This discovery inspires me to act

> differently, out of truth about myself being none I consider I, me,

> or mine!

> WIth this understanding comes a conviction of Non-Doership! I

> discover that actually it is the Knowledge, acquired through God given

> mind, intellect, and body that acts, which I consider to be me in

> ignorance. Now with this understanding, trust, devotion, and grace of

> God, my actions are going to be as if done by God, always benevalent

> to all I am entrusted! I cannot act in harmful way, come what may

> happen. The truth I see acts for me, not the selfish me I thought I

> was! So I see realizing this truth is of utmost important and when I

> do, for sure, I cannot act violently!

> Dhanyavaad, and Namaskar....Pratap

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari Ram Ram These actions definitely fall under 'adharma' and are no body's 'sva-dharama', these are 'nishidh’ karmas only and are prohibited. Only that object or action can be offered to the Lord, what is agreeable to Him and is what is according to His Command. The devotee who has the intention of making the offering to the Lord, neither he does nishidh karma nor he offers the nishidh karma to the Lord. Furthermore, whatever is offered to the Lord as a rule - returns multifold, meaning the rewards in terms of punishment of a nishidh karma will be multifold too. (Pls. refer to Gita Prabodhini by Swami Ramsukhdasji page 259). Also, our consciousness (Atma, an ansha of Parmatma inside us) will warn us from doing nishid karmas initially, of course one can ignore the warning coming from inner being then one paves the way for his downfall only. Pls. refer to the following relevant Gita verses: Verse (16-23): Yah sastravidhim utsrja, vartate kamakaratah na sa sidhim avaponoti, na sukham na param gatim Meaning: He who disobeys the ordinance of scriptures and acts under the influence of his desires, neither attains success nor happiness nor the Supreme goal. Verse (16-24): tasmac sastram pramanam te, karyakaryvyasthitau jnatva sastravidhanoktam, krama kartum itha 'rhasin Meaning: Therefore, let the scripture be your authority in determining what ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you should act only in accordance with sanction of scriptures. Ram Ram With loving regards, A sadhak Pratapbhatt <pratapbhatt wrote: Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Rajeevji has asked the following question.One doubt. If I do killing, rape, stealing and all other socially disagreable things by giving all its merits and demerits to "Krishna", "Karmanye Vadhikaraste. ...." is it an acceptable behaviour as per Geeta? If not what are all the verses which says about only non-harming

things to be done for "Krishna"? With a lot of compassion,Rajeev Sharing my understanding of Gita and Vedanta, I can answer this way.When I act out of not knowing the truth of myself, by simply acting out of my conditioning, my belief about me as independently existing entity, my actions are going to be selfish, and harmful! I am only looking to serve me or what I consider mine(this may include a long list of things, ideas, beliefs, caste, nationality, etc., I am attached to) and in the process hurt others.If I look closely I cannot say who I am without saying I am father, son, brother, husband, Indian, Hindu, educated, with likes and dislikes etc etc. I discover that I need many references to say who I am, so many pillars to stand as I cannot stand on my own.Now I discover, oh, these are all roles I am playing, but none of these I can be simultaneously. This discovery inspires me to act

differently, out of truth about myself being none I consider I, me, or mine!WIth this understanding comes a conviction of Non-Doership! I discover that actually it is the Knowledge, acquired through God given mind, intellect, and body that acts, which I consider to be me in ignorance. Now with this understanding, trust, devotion, and grace of God, my actions are going to be as if done by God, always benevalent to all I am entrusted! I cannot act in harmful way, come what may happen. The truth I see acts for me, not the selfish me I thought I was! So I see realizing this truth is of utmost important and when I do, for sure, I cannot act violently!Dhanyavaad, and Namaskar....Pratap

[Guest guest]

I am sorry to point it out, no disrespect to anyone, but this is very unnecessary question, and demands that person should have read Gita even superficially before raising it.

It is generally assumed that one who is looking for the guidance from Gita would already have some faith in dharmasastras, and would be following various yamas and niyamas according to one's capability. Otherwise why he or she would look Gita for guidance? And those guidelines, are common to all Indian religions (Sanatana dharma, Buddhism, Jainism etc). And even bhagvadgita points to them in various slokas: Satya, Ahimsa, Asteya, Shouch, Aparigraha, Brahmacharya and so on. Now it is impossible that one would indulge in rape, murder, stealing etc. if one has even slightly followed them. And if one has not followed them, why would one care to look into GIta at all!

See the various chapters of Gita dealing with characteristics of yogis, whether following karmayoga or gyana yoga or bhaktiyoga. There are so many slokas, adveshta sarva bhutanam..., Sarvabhutahite rata...To cite them would cover entire space...

 

Besides Shri Krishna also directs to annihilate kama, which is the root cause of all these unwholesome acts.

And even if one one indulge in these acts, and gives all the merits and demerits (whatever satisfaction one was deriving from them, pleasures etc.) to Krishna and take no part in enjoying them, why one would repeat them at all.

 

On 6/21/07, Madan kaura <madan_kaura wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shree Hari

 

Ram Ram

 

These actions definitely fall under 'adharma' and are no body's 'sva-dharama', these are 'nishidh' karmas only and are prohibited.

 

 

Only that object or action can be offered to the Lord, what is agreeable to Him and is what is according to His Command. The devotee who has the intention of making the offering to the Lord, neither he does nishidh karma nor he offers the nishidh karma to the Lord. Furthermore, whatever is offered to the Lord as a rule - returns multifold, meaning the rewards in terms of punishment of a nishidh karma will be multifold too. (

Pls. refer to Gita Prabodhini by Swami Ramsukhdasji page 259).

 

Also, our consciousness (Atma, an ansha of Parmatma inside us) will warn us from doing nishid karmas initially, of course one can ignore the warning coming from inner being then one paves the way for his downfall only.

Pls. refer to the following relevant Gita verses:

 

Verse (16-23): Yah sastravidhim utsrja, vartate kamakaratah

 

na sa sidhim avaponoti, na sukham na param gatim

 

Meaning: He who disobeys the ordinance of scriptures and acts under the

influence of his desires, neither attains success nor happiness nor

the Supreme goal.

 

Verse (16-24): tasmac sastram pramanam te, karyakaryvyasthitau

 

jnatva sastravidhanoktam, krama kartum itha 'rhasin

Meaning: Therefore, let the scripture be your authority in determining what

ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you

should act only in accordance with sanction of scriptures.

 

Ram Ram

 

With loving regards,

A sadhak

 

 

 

Pratapbhatt <pratapbhatt > wrote:

 

 

 

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Rajeevji has asked the following question.One doubt. If I do killing, rape, stealing and all other socially disagreable things by giving all its merits and demerits to " Krishna " , " Karmanye Vadhikaraste. .... " is it an acceptable behaviour as per Geeta? If not what are all the verses which says about only non-harming things to be done for " Krishna " ? With a lot of compassion,Rajeev Sharing my understanding of Gita and Vedanta, I can answer this way.

When I act out of not knowing the truth of myself, by simply acting out of my conditioning, my belief about me as independently existing entity, my actions are going to be selfish, and harmful! I am only looking to serve me or what I consider mine(this may include a long list of things, ideas, beliefs, caste, nationality, etc., I am attached to) and in the process hurt others.If I look closely I cannot say who I am without saying I am father, son, brother, husband, Indian, Hindu, educated, with likes and dislikes etc etc. I discover that I need many references to say who I am, so many pillars to stand as I cannot stand on my own.Now I discover, oh, these are all roles I am playing, but none of these I can be simultaneously. This discovery inspires me to act differently, out of truth about myself being none I consider I, me, or mine!WIth this understanding comes a conviction of Non-Doership! I discover that actually it is the Knowledge, acquired through God given mind, intellect, and body that acts, which I consider to be me in ignorance. Now with this understanding, trust, devotion, and grace of God, my actions are going to be as if done by God, always benevalent

to all I am entrusted! I cannot act in harmful way, come what may happen. The truth I see acts for me, not the selfish me I thought I was! So I see realizing this truth is of utmost important and when I do, for sure, I cannot act violently!

Dhanyavaad, and Namaskar....Pratap

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

 

If one realizes the true nature of oneself, one will know the answers to all

such questions which are kind of " what if " or

hypothetical in nature. We cannot justify evil acts by saying its

what God does to herself/himself without understandig first what God is!

 

Second point is, no action(s) in and of itself, can be right or wrong without

due consideration of circumstances, timing, demand of people, available

resources, and other hidden factors. It is the underlying motives behind an act

that is most importance. This

means if a person lives all his life realizing he/she is not such an isolated

entity, then at the right time, the right action will come

from the person.

 

In all humility, I challenge anyone of us to realize our truth of being a

non-doer, living in undivided wholeness, as witnessing presence-Atman, then see

if one can rape, murder or harm anyone!

And also such questions will find answers and life will be full, desireless, not

lacking anything that prompts a person to act differently.

 

Krishna, at the beginning, gave this knowledge of Self, meaning who Arjuna and

all on both sides truly are. The act of war was the

decision appropriate based on all such factors that act in unison, not in

isolation, at the time required.

 

Reading Gita doesn't mean one has digested and lives Gita's teaching, and by

saying " I am offering my merits and demerits to

Krishna " , one doesn't unless one experiences Krishna Cocnsciousness to see who

is being offered, and who is the one to offer!

 

Namaskar, and Dhanyavaad....Pratap

 

----------

Neeraj Mishra

My dear Brothers/Sisters,

 

I think which is my perception with Karmanye Vadhikaraste. .... " is that ...

 

It says to do our duty(this is main thing) without any desire, and not to do

unacceptable deeds without any desire.

 

So Do only ethical duties without any desire.

 

Madhava will explain the rest

 

----------

--- Rajeev G <r.gov2005 wrote:

 

> Dear Sadhaks,

>

If one sees some skirmish happenings on the road, as per my understanding of the

Gita, the options are :

 

1. One can just ignore and walk away (As act of God, my intervention is not

required. Even my walking away is also God's will)

2. Involve one's self fully, including act of violence (Doing Swa-dharma)

3. A partial involvement just to say what is right and wrong (Anyway god's will

wins, we are no way to judge good and bad).

>

My understanding is that Gita supports all the three but at the end it is asking

to do the second option. Arjuna gets ready for a kill and Krishna says I am the

killer and the killed. If Krishna is the creator of all " Maya " why to worry?

why not do whatever one wants and be irresponsible of one's actions?

>

> With a lot of compassion,

>

> Rajeev

[Guest guest]

Hello all, my humble opinion. I guess I understand the reason for the below question. Long time back..I too never used to understand the reasons based on ur questions. What I feel is..do not get confused regarding the literal meaning of only some of the verses. Slowly try to understand the subtle meaning as to what the reason is behind the verse. Once u analyse that, you will understand urself what is right and what to do and what not to do. If you SURRENDER to that LORD fully with complete love and belief and faith, you need not have to think even about which activity to do or which one not to do. He will make sure that you go in the PATH that is intended and is good both for you as well as for others. Once you let go of everything to HIM(or surrend to HIM), he will make sure that you will never come across the situation or you will never go in a wrong path at all. Just SURRENDER to HIM before you do any action, SURRENDER onto HIM while doing the action and SURRENDER onto HIM after doing the action with the feeling of everything is HIM. Then, once one sees that divinity in everyone and everything, one never can do any harm to anyone. And God will make sure that no one harms u too. If by any chance, if it becomes difficult for you to SURRENDER, even then its ok. If you have a little belief or faith in God/SUPREME too, its ok. You can just PRAY to HIM/SUPREME with the complete sincerity that "God, Let me go in the path that you intend me to follow by which no one is hurt by me.I trust in you completely for all my actions and inactions and I surrender all of my actions and inactions and myself onto YOU.Open the doors of the PATH that is righteous and close the doors very tight where I should NOT go.". Regards, Bharathi. pratapbhatt

<pratapbhatt wrote: Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Rajeevji has asked the following question.One doubt. If I do killing, rape, stealing and all other socially disagreable things by giving all its merits and demerits to "Krishna", "Karmanye Vadhikaraste. ...." is it an acceptable behaviour as per Geeta? If not what are all the verses which says about only non-harming things to be done for "Krishna"? With a lot of compassion,Rajeev Sharing my understanding of Gita and Vedanta, I can

answer this way.When I act out of not knowing the truth of myself, by simply acting out of my conditioning, my belief about me as independently existing entity, my actions are going to be selfish, and harmful! I am only looking to serve me or what I consider mine(this may include a long list of things, ideas, beliefs, caste, nationality, etc., I am attached to) and in the process hurt others.If I look closely I cannot say who I am without saying I am father, son, brother, husband, Indian, Hindu, educated, with likes and dislikes etc etc. I discover that I need many references to say who I am, so many pillars to stand as I cannot stand on my own.Now I discover, oh, these are all roles I am playing, but none of these I can be simultaneously. This discovery inspires me to act differently, out of truth about myself being none I consider I, me, or mine!WIth this understanding comes a conviction of Non-Doership! I

discover that actually it is the Knowledge, acquired through God given mind, intellect, and body that acts, which I consider to be me in ignorance. Now with this understanding, trust, devotion, and grace of God, my actions are going to be as if done by God, always benevalent to all I am entrusted! I cannot act in harmful way, come what may happen. The truth I see acts for me, not the selfish me I thought I was! So I see realizing this truth is of utmost important and when I do, for sure, I cannot act violently!Dhanyavaad, and Namaskar....Pratap

[Guest guest]

Shree Hari FROM MODERATOR:

PLEASE KINDLY KEEP THE RESPONSES CONCISE AND TOO THE POINT, WITH A FOCUS ON CLARIFYING ANY DOUBTS RELATED TO THE BHAGAVAD GITA, RESPECTING PEOPLE'S TIME, IN THIS AGE OF INFORMATION OVERLOAD. THANK YOU, AND PLEASE CONTINUE WITH THIS DIVINE WORK. Discussion shortened by Moderator. RAM RAM

----

 

Logic by itself is something which does not belong to any truth. Logic always belong to person who is arguing. Logic and arguments can never tell about the truth at all. Where as if you want to know the truth of something, if you are looking for facts of something, they can only be understood if one is approaching something with open mind which is empty of all the preconceived notions.

False assertions about something are unwholesome. If you read Budhha, you will find how he rebuked his desciples not to say anything of which they were not hundred percent sure. The claim that person looking for inspiration in Gita would find freedom to steal, rape or murder is totally false, is totally wrong. No one can tell. No one can claim whether the other person understood something or not, we can only say for ourselves. The very meaning of 'karmanaye wadhikaraste...' is totally different from what you proclaim. On the otherhand it tells that you are responsible for actions, and not for their fruits, and asks us to be skillful in our actions. To understand gita, I would suggest you to read GIta translation by Dr. Radhakrishnan, who is widely recognized as prominent scholar of Sanskrit and philosophy by academicians well versed in sanskrit.

Satya, Ahimsa, Brahmacharya, aparigraha and so on are something which is universal, and does not belong to Gita alone. Just see chapter 12, and first 2-3 slokas of chapter 16. The only test which we can apply to whether one has understood Gita or not is whether those qualities are appearing in one's life or not. If not, then one has not understood it, however fiercely loyal one is in defending in them.

No one is trying to convert you to Bhagvadgita, essential truths are universal, there are so many beautiful things in the world. One can follow anyone. Only a person knows what is good for oneself. If one is looking for good sincerely, one can find anywhere. I have found extremely profound truths in the lives of muslim saints, christian mystics, buddhist monks- and since I was looking only to find good in them, they all have benefited me. Truth does not belong to any book, any text, any organization, any person. Reality is indivisble, it can never be a Buddhist reality or Hindu reality and so on.. And that to me is the central message of not only Gita, but every enlightened person. One can come to truth or peace by merely reading and quoting scriptures, somewhere one has to understand oneself and reality in the light of those scriptures and go beyond oneself.

Yogesh

------

 

On 6/23/07, Rajeev G wrote:

Dear All.

 

Yogesh: Dharmashashtra is not well defined in "Hinduism" or sanathanadharma. It says all ways are fine, if doing it by the name of "Krishna". Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity and Islam got definite set of "values" to be adhered.

 

In Sanathanadharma, even Ravana gets "Moksha" since he got killed by "God" Hiranyakashipu gets Moksha.

 

Prathapji: "If everything, including actions and reactions are god made? Then, why would we take effort at all? One finds reason to justify the injustice happening in Mahabharat, God" acting through Arjun. I have sympathy to religious fundamentalists for their inability to see the nature of "all" as it is. "Gita" cannot answer all our doubts. That is something I want somebody to accept as Mr.Yogesh rightly said, there are other readings and learnings other than "Gita",Sceince to be studied to know so many other things. All to be done together then also they have to proceed further to be complete (completeness may remain like chasing a wildgoose).

 

My conviction is, "Gita"s interpretation is not proper. "Gita" can make a person irresponsible to his actions. Thanks and would like to see more meaningful discussions based on this great book written years back.

 

With a lot of compassion,

 

Rajeev

------

Shree Hari Ram Ram Thanks Yogeshji for sharing your views, you are right on the target! Loving regards, A sadhak Yogesh Kumar Katare <ykatare wrote: I am sorry to point it out, no disrespect to anyone, but this is very unnecessary question, and demands that person should have read Gita even superficially before raising it. It is generally assumed that one who is

looking for the guidance from Gita would already have some faith in dharmasastras, and would be following various yamas and niyamas according to one's capability. Otherwise why he or she would look Gita for guidance? And those guidelines, are common to all Indian religions (Sanatana dharma, Buddhism, Jainism etc). And even bhagvadgita points to them in various slokas: Satya, Ahimsa, Asteya, Shouch, Aparigraha, Brahmacharya and so on. Now it is impossible that one would indulge in rape, murder, stealing etc. if one has even slightly followed them. And if one has not followed them, why would one care to look into GIta at all! See the various chapters of Gita dealing with characteristics of yogis, whether following karmayoga or gyana yoga or bhaktiyoga. There are so many slokas, adveshta sarva bhutanam..., Sarvabhutahite rata...To cite them would cover entire space... Besides Shri Krishna also directs to annihilate kama, which is the root cause

of all these unwholesome acts. And even if one one indulge in these acts, and gives all the merits and demerits (whatever satisfaction one was deriving from them, pleasures etc.) to Krishna and take no part in enjoying them, why one would repeat them at all. On 6/21/07, Madan kaura <madan_kaura > wrote: Shree Hari Ram Ram These actions definitely fall under 'adharma' and are no body's 'sva-dharama', these are 'nishidh' karmas only and are prohibited. Only that object or action can be offered to the Lord, what is agreeable to Him and is what is according to His Command. The devotee who has the intention of making the offering to the Lord, neither he does nishidh karma nor he offers the nishidh karma to the Lord. Furthermore, whatever is offered to the Lord as a rule - returns multifold, meaning the rewards in terms of punishment of a nishidh karma will be multifold too. ( Pls. refer to Gita Prabodhini by Swami Ramsukhdasji page 259). Also, our consciousness (Atma, an ansha of Parmatma inside us) will warn us from doing nishid karmas initially, of course one can ignore the warning coming from inner being then one paves the way for his downfall only. Pls. refer to the following relevant Gita verses: Verse (16-23): Yah sastravidhim utsrja, vartate kamakaratah

na sa sidhim avaponoti, na sukham na param gatim Meaning: He who disobeys the ordinance of scriptures and acts under the influence of his desires, neither attains success nor happiness nor the Supreme goal. Verse (16-24): tasmac sastram pramanam te, karyakaryvyasthitau jnatva sastravidhanoktam, krama kartum itha 'rhasin Meaning: Therefore, let the scripture be your authority in determining what ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you should act only in accordance with sanction of scriptures. Ram

Ram With loving regards, A sadhak Pratapbhatt <pratapbhatt > wrote: Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Rajeevji has asked the following question.One doubt. If I do killing, rape, stealing and all other socially disagreable things by giving all its merits and demerits to "Krishna", "Karmanye Vadhikaraste. ...." is it an acceptable behaviour as per Geeta? If not what are all the verses which says about only non-harming things to

be done for "Krishna"? With a lot of compassion,Rajeev Sharing my understanding of Gita and Vedanta, I can answer this way. When I act out of not knowing the truth of myself, by simply acting out of my conditioning, my belief about me as independently existing entity, my actions are going to be selfish, and harmful! I am only looking to serve me or what I consider mine(this may include a long list of things, ideas, beliefs, caste, nationality, etc., I am attached to) and in the process hurt others.If I look closely I cannot say who I am without saying I am father, son, brother, husband, Indian, Hindu, educated, with likes and dislikes etc etc. I discover that I need many references to say who I am, so many pillars to stand as I cannot stand on my own.Now I discover, oh, these are all roles I am playing, but none of these I can be simultaneously. This discovery inspires me to act differently, out of

truth about myself being none I consider I, me, or mine!WIth this understanding comes a conviction of Non-Doership! I discover that actually it is the Knowledge, acquired through God given mind, intellect, and body that acts, which I consider to be me in ignorance. Now with this understanding, trust, devotion, and grace of God, my actions are going to be as if done by God, always benevalent to all I am entrusted! I cannot act in harmful way, come what may happen. The truth I see acts for me, not the selfish me I thought I was! So I see realizing this truth is of utmost important and when I do, for sure, I cannot act violently! Dhanyavaad, and Namaskar....Pratap

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[Guest guest]

One doubt. If I do killing, rape, stealing and all other socially disagreable things by giving all its merits and demerits to " Krishna " , " Karmanye Vadhikaraste. .... " is it an acceptable

behaviour as per Geeta? If not what are all the verses which says about only non-harming things to be done for " Krishna " ? With a lot of compassion,Rajeev _____________________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Loving Divine,

Humble pranams. All answers provided thus far are absolutely beautiful and I thank you all.

I am adding few points hoping that it might enhance our understanding a bit more.

 

'Karmanye vaadhikaa...' I am going to quote the translation given by Paramhamsa Hariharanandaji: " You have every right to do selfless work, but you should not cherish any desire for the fruits of your work. Do not let the fruit of your action be your object... " So now I ask you, can your actions be classified into 'SELFLESS' act? Also they involve doership - 'If I do...' So despite of your offerings to God the merits & demerits come back to the doer. Tell you the truth, whether you offer or not, He is the one who receives it all. BG 9:26, according to the intention of your acts He does the justice. Madanji has explained it beautifully in his email.

 

Scientifically speacking - every action has its reaction(s) or the law of nature is 'Jaisi karni vaisi bharni' If you have planted thorns, you can't expect mangoes on them. So to answer your question, no, it is not an acceptable behaviour as per Gita because these type of actions bring you down. Lord says it so many places that lower nature is also me but the teaching He is giving to Arjuna is to help him free from the bondage of such lower nature. When one is engaged in sense pleasure one is not God Conscious thus it brings a down fall.

 

 

'If not what are all the verses which says about only non-harming things to be done for " Krishna " ? ' Lot can be listed here but to summarize...

There is no physical war involved in Gitaji at all - it is a compassionate song of God for his beloved friend Arjuna on how to be free of lower tendencies. The whole song is to teach non-violence & become peaceful within. When one becomes peaceful within, it overflows outside. Vyasji has beautifully chosen all characters. Their names point to their strengths - good or bad, & they all reside within us only. So if you start looking within, you will find stubbornness like Bhishma, indecisiveness like Dron, pride & vanity like Duryodhan, shameless act like Dhuhshashan, physical strength like Bhima, balance and sharp intelligence like Arjuna, riteousness like Yudhisthir, and Krishna as the Suprem Conciousness, etc. There is a constant battle going on between the two forces - right & wrong, good & bad, lower & higher tendencies. Lord helps Arjuna to understand his own strengths & weaknesses by stopping the chariot right in the middle of battle field, i.e., He asks Arjun to take a neutral stand, be a witness of his own good-bad. To win a battle, one must know the strength of the enemy & in spiritual world your own lower tendencies are your enemies!

 

Right in the beginning, chapter 2, sloka 11 & onward, Lord gives the Supreme Knowledge to Arjuna but he is not capable of grasping it at all due to him being in a confused state. To clear his mind Lord tells him all about what is lower nature, how to overcome the evil propensities, explains how they take over your discriminative power, how you can be free and how do you know you are free with selfless karma, bhakti of complete surrender and jyaan of the true doer.

 

 

Few examples of Lord's teachings:

 

BG 2:48: Lord asks Arjuna to remain in yoga, balanced state or equanimity, perform your duties without attachments & don't let your mind dwell on success-failure.

BG 3:40-43 Be desireless, it destroys knowledge, consciousness, wisdom. Desire is the main enemy and very difficult to conquer.

BG 5:3-9 The one who doesn't hate & doesn't desire is free from bondage. One who perceives gyaan & karma yoga as one & the same knows the truth, i.e., vivekyoukta karma. Yogi has pure mind, all senses under control, perceives self in all, filled with devotion even though he is engaged in worldly action he is free of doership

 

 

Like this if you pull out Lord's teachings, you'll notice that it's nothing but slowly & gradually calming down of Arjuna's restless-confused mind to the state of stillness where he realizes who he is. Kaam, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Maatsarya (jealousy), Mada -social & spiritual enemies, are all addressed by Krishna during his teachings, their sources and how to be free from them. When one is free of them, one is peaceful inwardly & outwardly. In such state one never indulges in socially disagreeable act.

 

 

Hope I had addressed your queries... My apologies for being little long...

always at Thy Divine Feet

[Guest guest]

On 6/23/07, Rajeev G wrote: Dear All.

Yogesh: Dharmashashtra is not well defined in " Hinduism " or sanathanadharma. It says all ways are fine, if doing it by the name of " Krishna " . Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity and Islam got definite set of " values " to be adhered.

In Sanathanadharma, even Ravana gets " Moksha " since he got killed by " God " Hiranyakashipu gets Moksha.

Prathapji: " If everything, including actions and reactions are god made? Then, why would we take effort at all? One finds reason to justify the injustice happening in Mahabharat, God " acting through Arjun. I have sympathy to religious fundamentalists for their inability to see the nature of " all " as it is. " Gita " cannot answer all our doubts. That is something I want somebody to accept as Mr.Yogesh rightly said, there are other readings and learnings other than " Gita " ,Sceince to be studied to know so many other things. All to be done together then also they have to proceed further to be complete (completeness may remain like chasing a wildgoose).

 

My conviction is, " Gita " s interpretation is not proper. " Gita " can make a person irresponsible to his actions. Thanks and would like to see more meaningful discussions based on this great book written years back.

With a lot of compassion,

Rajeev

___________________________

Loving Divine,

Humble pranams. Hummmm... big misconception, limited knowledge, wrong understanding about " Hinduism " or Sanatandharma.

Ravana, Hiranyakashipu, Kamsa got moksha not because they were killed by God but because of their intense longing to meet Rama, Narayan or Krishna. Day and night, every moment, awake or asleep, in every act, they were constantly thinking of none but Hari only!!!!! Don't blame it, we don't remember Lord even 0.001% of it. We think of God as Lord(Swami), Friend, Brother, Lover, Father, Mother, etc. what's wrong in remembering Him as Enemy? Today's friend can be tomorrow's enemy so why can't today's enemy become a friend? Any & every relationship is acceptable, that is the beauty of Sanatandharma! One only needs that intensity - love or hate, we differentiate it, but to Lord, remembering him with such an intense longing, passion, is Love and only Love. Think it over you will understand.

 

 

Just like other religions have established set of values, Sanatandharma also has them described in every book you pick-up, and as someone mention they are not different! Please don't judge any spiritual book with your limited knowledge, even to compare these books one has to have authority on such books. When one is limited in the boundaries of religion, one is not spiritual at all...! God is beyond books. Books can only point you towards THAT whether it is Quran, Dhammapada, Bible or Gita. Books are means & not the end itself.

 

 

Honestly speaking, one doesn't need to read any books what so ever to understand God. Can a book ever explain what all pervasiveness is (entire BG chapter 10 tries to point to this aspect, does everyone understand it that way, I doubt)? But can any word spoken tell what sweetness of sugar is? One can keep on talking, talking & talking and still remain far far far very far away from describing what sweetness is, isn't it? Can reading or talking about menu items or process of cooking, cure the hunger? One has to act & act now - this action is nothing but expanding your awareness, crossing the boundaries of limited knowledge, accepting any and everything with equanimity. Using your discrimination in every act. That is what Gitaji teaches. The scriptures can become guide. When one truly understands who God is, one him/herself becomes God, what value does these scriptures carry in front of Him (BG 2:46)?

 

Gitaji is the spoken words of God, for all His children at all levels so interpreted by many according to their level of understanding - nothing wrong about it. If it doesn't meet ones expectations it doesn't mean that there is a problem with Gitaji. Isn't it a problem with one's limited understanding? So those who have expanded understanding can share their thoughts that can help others also in their evolution. A teacher can teach in the class of 100 & they all will come up with their own response of what the teacher has taught, isn't it? How can you blame a teacher if you score the lowest? So go with the interpretation that satisfies your intellect. Ramsukhdasji's articles have always always inspired me - simple and effective! His books are free on the website. I have also come across a very beautiful interpretation of Gitaji by Paramhamsa Yogananda - 'God Talks With Arjuna, The Bhagvad Gita, Royal Science of God-Realization'. He has addressed Gitaji from various angles - metaphysics, spiritual, psychological, etc. Please, please, please read it, I am sure your intellect will be satisfied. After completing this reading, come back and tell us what are your findings, we all would appreciate it.

 

 

With love,

always at Thy Holy Feet

[Guest guest]

Here's a perfect quote by Sree Satya Sai Baba on this subject: " You may claim that you live according to dharma (righteousness). But, your basic flaw is that your acts are not done in the spirit of dedication. If so done, they get stamped with the authentic mark of dharma. Some clever people might raise a doubt and ask: “Can we then kill and injure in the name of the Lord, dedicating the act to Him?” Well, how can a person get the attitude of dedicating all activities to the Lord without at the same time being pure in thought, word, and deed? Love, equanimity, rectitude, nonviolence - these are the attendant virtues of the servant of the Lord...To have selflessness, the spirit of self-sacrifice, and the spiritual eminence required for the dedicatory outlook, one must have first won the four characteristics of truth, peace, love,

non-violence. Baba - Dhyana Vahini

Manjula Patel <manjumaa wrote: On 6/23/07, Rajeev G wrote: Dear All. Yogesh: Dharmashashtra is not well defined in "Hinduism" or sanathanadharma. It says all ways are fine, if doing it by the name of "Krishna". Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity and Islam got definite set of "values" to be adhered. In Sanathanadharma, even Ravana gets "Moksha" since he got

killed by "God" Hiranyakashipu gets Moksha. Prathapji: "If everything, including actions and reactions are god made? Then, why would we take effort at all? One finds reason to justify the injustice happening in Mahabharat, God" acting through Arjun. I have sympathy to religious fundamentalists for their inability to see the nature of "all" as it is. "Gita" cannot answer all our doubts. That is something I want somebody to accept as Mr.Yogesh rightly said, there are other readings and learnings other than "Gita",Sceince to be studied to know so many other things. All to be done together then also they have to proceed further to be complete (completeness may remain like chasing a wildgoose). My conviction is, "Gita"s interpretation is not proper. "Gita" can make a person irresponsible to his actions. Thanks and would like to see more meaningful discussions based on this great book written years back. With a lot of

compassion, Rajeev ___________________________ Loving Divine, Humble pranams. Hummmm... big misconception, limited knowledge, wrong understanding about "Hinduism" or Sanatandharma. Ravana, Hiranyakashipu, Kamsa got moksha not because they were killed by God but because of their intense longing to meet Rama, Narayan or Krishna. Day and night, every moment, awake or asleep, in every act, they were constantly thinking of none but Hari only!!!!! Don't blame it, we don't remember Lord even 0.001% of it. We think of God as Lord(Swami), Friend, Brother, Lover, Father, Mother, etc. what's wrong in remembering Him as

Enemy? Today's friend can be tomorrow's enemy so why can't today's enemy become a friend? Any & every relationship is acceptable, that is the beauty of Sanatandharma! One only needs that intensity - love or hate, we differentiate it, but to Lord, remembering him with such an intense longing, passion, is Love and only Love. Think it over you will understand. Just like other religions have established set of values, Sanatandharma also has them described in every book you pick-up, and as someone mention they are not different! Please don't judge any spiritual book with your limited knowledge, even to compare these books one has to have authority on such books. When one is limited in the boundaries of religion, one is not spiritual at all...! God is beyond books. Books can only point you towards THAT whether it is Quran, Dhammapada, Bible or Gita. Books are means & not

the end itself. Honestly speaking, one doesn't need to read any books what so ever to understand God. Can a book ever explain what all pervasiveness is (entire BG chapter 10 tries to point to this aspect, does everyone understand it that way, I doubt)? But can any word spoken tell what sweetness of sugar is? One can keep on talking, talking & talking and still remain far far far very far away from describing what sweetness is, isn't it? Can reading or talking about menu items or process of cooking, cure the hunger? One has to act & act now - this action is nothing but expanding your awareness, crossing the boundaries of limited knowledge, accepting any and everything with equanimity. Using your discrimination in every act. That is what Gitaji teaches. The scriptures can become guide. When one truly understands who God is, one him/herself becomes God, what

value does these scriptures carry in front of Him (BG 2:46)? Gitaji is the spoken words of God, for all His children at all levels so interpreted by many according to their level of understanding - nothing wrong about it. If it doesn't meet ones expectations it doesn't mean that there is a problem with Gitaji. Isn't it a problem with one's limited understanding? So those who have expanded understanding can share their thoughts that can help others also in their evolution. A teacher can teach in the class of 100 & they all will come up with their own response of what the teacher has taught, isn't it? How can you blame a teacher if you score the lowest? So go with the interpretation that satisfies your intellect. Ramsukhdasji's articles have always always inspired me - simple and effective! His books are free on the website. I have also come

across a very beautiful interpretation of Gitaji by Paramhamsa Yogananda - 'God Talks With Arjuna, The Bhagvad Gita, Royal Science of God-Realization'. He has addressed Gitaji from various angles - metaphysics, spiritual, psychological, etc. Please, please, please read it, I am sure your intellect will be satisfied. After completing this reading, come back and tell us what are your findings, we all would appreciate it. With love, always at Thy Holy Feet

[Guest guest]

Dear Rajeev Your doubt that “If I do killing, rape, stealing and all other socially disagreable things by giving all its merits and demerits to "Krishna", "Karmanye Vadhikaraste. ...." is it an acceptable behaviour as per Geeta?” is very fuuny, indeed !! Yes, your question can be answered in the positive. It should be followed in its letter and spirit, i.e. do everything giving all its merits and demerits to Krishna. This will be a total surrender to Krishna. If you discharge all your Karma in this way, no doubt it will be well acceptable. One should not wish to take anything from that acts and deeds (karma). But whether anybody is there ready to follow what you have mentioned… With deep pranaams HARI OM

---------

Dear Sadhaks,

 

Thank you all for your reply. I am learning. But, also trying to see how far logic and rationality with contemporary set of beliefs can take us.

 

The reasoning and reality varies from person to person. All the realities are existing and very much "real" (also unreal at the same time) how can we say this is good and that is good without knowing and being at all realities at the same time. Only an enlightened being like "Buddha" can be in all these with ease and also can talk about it without any confusion of matter or phenomena even with overlapping.

 

Gita captured those to a larger extent. Since I personally like to see teachings with "scientific" mind, as I believe science is also spiritual (May be jnana yoga). I clearly understand, there is no "self" and "argument" which is as my own. There is no winning and loosing and I will try my level best to avoid "my opinions" based on only my knowledge and experience. But, for me that is the level I am and still searching. Thanks for those who have helped me and thanks for other's patience.

With a lot of compassion,

 

Rajeev

-----------

 

Manjula Patel <manjumaa wrote: One doubt. If I do killing, rape, stealing and all other socially disagreable things by giving all its merits and demerits to "Krishna", "Karmanye Vadhikaraste. ...." is it an acceptable behaviour as per Geeta? If not what are all the verses which says about only non-harming things to be done for "Krishna"? With a lot of compassion,Rajeev _____________________________ Loving Divine, Humble pranams. All answers provided thus far are absolutely beautiful and I thank you all. I am adding few points hoping that it might enhance our understanding a bit more. 'Karmanye vaadhikaa...' I am going to quote the translation given by Paramhamsa Hariharanandaji: "You have every right to do selfless work, but you should not cherish any desire for the fruits of your work. Do not let the fruit of your action be your object..." So now I ask you, can your actions be classified into 'SELFLESS' act? Also they involve doership - 'If I do...' So despite of your offerings to God the merits & demerits come back to the doer. Tell you the truth, whether you offer or not, He is the one who receives it all. BG 9:26, according to

the intention of your acts He does the justice. Madanji has explained it beautifully in his email. Scientifically speacking - every action has its reaction(s) or the law of nature is 'Jaisi karni vaisi bharni' If you have planted thorns, you can't expect mangoes on them. So to answer your question, no, it is not an acceptable behaviour as per Gita because these type of actions bring you down. Lord says it so many places that lower nature is also me but the teaching He is giving to Arjuna is to help him free from the bondage of such lower nature. When one is engaged in sense pleasure one is not God Conscious thus it brings a down fall. 'If not what are all the verses which says about only non-harming things to be done for "Krishna"? ' Lot can be listed here but to summarize... There is no physical war

involved in Gitaji at all - it is a compassionate song of God for his beloved friend Arjuna on how to be free of lower tendencies. The whole song is to teach non-violence & become peaceful within. When one becomes peaceful within, it overflows outside. Vyasji has beautifully chosen all characters. Their names point to their strengths - good or bad, & they all reside within us only. So if you start looking within, you will find stubbornness like Bhishma, indecisiveness like Dron, pride & vanity like Duryodhan, shameless act like Dhuhshashan, physical strength like Bhima, balance and sharp intelligence like Arjuna, riteousness like Yudhisthir, and Krishna as the Suprem Conciousness, etc. There is a constant battle going on between the two forces - right & wrong, good & bad, lower & higher tendencies. Lord helps Arjuna to understand his own strengths & weaknesses by stopping the

chariot right in the middle of battle field, i.e., He asks Arjun to take a neutral stand, be a witness of his own good-bad. To win a battle, one must know the strength of the enemy & in spiritual world your own lower tendencies are your enemies! Right in the beginning, chapter 2, sloka 11 & onward, Lord gives the Supreme Knowledge to Arjuna but he is not capable of grasping it at all due to him being in a confused state. To clear his mind Lord tells him all about what is lower nature, how to overcome the evil propensities, explains how they take over your discriminative power, how you can be free and how do you know you are free with selfless karma, bhakti of complete surrender and jyaan of the true doer. Few examples of Lord's teachings: BG 2:48: Lord asks Arjuna to remain in yoga, balanced state or equanimity, perform

your duties without attachments & don't let your mind dwell on success-failure. BG 3:40-43 Be desireless, it destroys knowledge, consciousness, wisdom. Desire is the main enemy and very difficult to conquer. BG 5:3-9 The one who doesn't hate & doesn't desire is free from bondage. One who perceives gyaan & karma yoga as one & the same knows the truth, i.e., vivekyoukta karma. Yogi has pure mind, all senses under control, perceives self in all, filled with devotion even though he is engaged in worldly action he is free of doership Like this if you pull out Lord's teachings, you'll notice that it's nothing but slowly & gradually calming down of Arjuna's restless-confused mind to the state of stillness where he realizes who he is. Kaam, Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Maatsarya (jealousy), Mada -social & spiritual enemies, are all addressed by Krishna

during his teachings, their sources and how to be free from them. When one is free of them, one is peaceful inwardly & outwardly. In such state one never indulges in socially disagreeable act. Hope I had addressed your queries... My apologies for being little long... always at Thy Divine Feet

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