Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Is God a doer or a facilitator? The answer to this question will clarify the doubts regarding bhagya (fate) and karma (actions). Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 God is neither doer nor facilitator. God only watches. As an example. The President of India does not work in the offices of Govt of India. But everything is done in the name of the President. Really it is the nature that works based on the rules framed by god. A.H.Dalmia ---------- Neither ! HE created "shirshti" all that which will facilitate His Creation . All that IS........ Human form is the best of his Creation who is endowed with the supreme of the quality of "VivekVeechar". These are MUST use. Simply, therefore "what u sow (actions) so shall u reap (fate)". His Shrishti just pays us back in the same coin which we use; that's also in its own fashion time frame. His Creation , that's Human also has no say in that matter. Kishin Chandiramani ---------- Good question! Who is asking? Is God ready for the answer? God IS... It is all his tamasha....in one word...it is Maya. words can be added : doer, facilitator, whatever... It is wonderful........ Sushil Jain ---------- - bhatialalit Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:55 AM Is God a doer or a facilitator? Is God a doer or a facilitator? The answer to this question will clarify the doubts regarding bhagya (fate) and karma (actions). Gita Talk GuidelinesFROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Dear Sadhkas, Namaste! Doesn't this question assume God is separate from all of us sentients and insentients beings? If so, then only such question can be postulated, I would think. If not, then, we as " individual doers " is not possible. It is only God who is acting without a cause when any one of us acts or some of us act or anything happens! Laws of physics and spiritual are themeslves also God! It is analogus to Sun shining, it is its nature, not doing any effort, and yet all life is possible because of Sun. God when deeply and experrientially understood, would answer such questions far better! Namaskars................Pratap --- bhatialalit <bhatialalit wrote: > Is God a doer or a facilitator? The answer to this > question will clarify the doubts regarding bhagya > (fate) and karma (actions). > > Gita Talk Guidelines > > FROM THE MODERATOR > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk > discussions. > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify > their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses > to be posted, they must further clarify the > understanding of Gitaji. > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other > scriptures to substantiate the response > 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs > etc. > 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the > point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). > 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. > 6. Please do not include links to other sites or > other organizations > 7. Please do not include your personal information > such as phone number, address etc. > 8. Kindly do not address the response to a > particular individual, since the message is going to > the entire group. > 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will > be posted. > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the > posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate > for distribution to the group. > 11. Please respond taking into consideration > novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. > Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and > provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed > wherever possible. > > MODERATOR > Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 Shree Hari Ram Ram Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye dhanyavad! God as Doer or facilitator: Based on our scriptures, God neither can be considered as a doer nor as a facilitator but instead He is considered as a Master of all beings, things and happenings. God uses His Prakriti to accomplish all the actions. If we were to consider Him as a facilitator, it would mean He is facilitating all things for a higher power than Him, which is not possible because there is no higher power than God. When He takes on an incarnation He appears to do actions but these actions are considered as His lila (sport) only since He is neither bound by the actions nor He has the sense of doer-ship of these actions. In Shri Gitaji there are many verses on this subject, few of them are: 4-6 ajoo 'pi sann avyayatma, bhutanam isvaro 'pi san prakrtim swam adhisthaya, sambhavamy atmmayaya Meaning: “Though unborn and immortal and also Lord of all beings, I manifest Myself through My own Yogmaya (divine potency), keeping My Nature (Prakriti) under control”. 9-8 Prakrtim swam avasabhya, visrjami punah-punah bhutagramam imam krtsnmam, avasam orarter vasaat Meaning: “Taking hold of My nature, I bring forth again and again, all this multitude of beings (according to their respective karma) who are subject to the influence of nature (Prakriti)”. 9-10 maya 'dhyaksena prakritih, suyate sacaracram, hetuna 'ena kaunteya, jagat viprivartate Meaning: “Under my guidance, nature (Prakriti) gives birth to the whole creation, moving and unmoving and by this means, O son of Kunti (Arjuana), the world revolves”. Bhagya (fate) and Karma (Actions) All the material things, the circumstances, pleasure and pain we get are only the result of prarabhda (Bhagya) only, we have no control on what we may get, it is also not a function of what we wish to happen either. Swamiji Maharaj advises the sadhkas to be happy and content with whatever we get, in all favorable or unfavorable situations. But in doing the new karma or pursharatha, we are independent to choose the actions as well as in the manner we do these actions, we must to be very careful about the choices. When the new actions are performed in the Yajna spirit i.e., as a sacrifice, without any selfish motive, these actions do not bind us, instead they make us free. Swamiji's Maharaj's message is "None of the perishable worldly things, the body, mind, intellect and things of the world including money etc. which by mistake we happen to consider as our own, instead we must utilize them for the service of the world and give our Self (Atma) to God (Atma and Paramatma have the same nature). In Karma yoga, Karma is for the world and Yoga (union with God) is for us". Humble pranam A Sadhkabhatialalit <bhatialalit wrote: Is God a doer or a facilitator? The answer to this question will clarify the doubts regarding bhagya (fate) and karma (actions). Gita Talk GuidelinesFROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 According to me God is both doer and facilitator. He is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.All creations in this world are His doings. He facilitates the human beings in completing their tasks, provided they surrender totally unto Him Even an iota of ego, will keep God faraway from us. We have to understand the philosophy of "Sharanagati" to really know HIM. With Pranams, Vaidyanathan From: bhatialalitDate: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 05:25:15 +0000 Is God a doer or a facilitator? Is God a doer or a facilitator? The answer to this question will clarify the doubts regarding bhagya (fate) and karma (actions). Gita Talk GuidelinesFROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Jay SitaRam Sherji, mujhe ek chij samajh mein nahin aayi ki aapne niche Hindu mythology shabda ka upyog kaise kar diya. mythology ka arth to "mithya" ho gaya. kya hamare shastra mithya hain? English Translation: There is one thing that is not clear to me, that how come you have used the word Hindu mythology. Mythology can be understood to mean - unreal or false. Are our scriptures false or unreal ? Jai Ramji ki. Santosh. FROM THE MODERATOR - IF YOU RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE, PLEASE FOCUS ON THE PURPOSE OF THE GITA TALK GROUP, WHICH IS TO FURTHER THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE GITA. PLEASE REVISIT THE GUIDELINES ESTABLISHED FOR THE GROUP AND KINDLY DO NOT EXPRESS Y0UR INDIVIDUAL OPINIONS. THANK YOU IN ADVANCE. Sher Agrawal <agrasen wrote: Dear Vaidyanathanji,Jai Ramjiki, Jai Shri Radhakirshnji ki and Jai Veer Hanuman, I quite agree with you when you say that God is both doer and facilitator......However, what happens when we have an ego? Then who acts. From the past human experience and as stated in Gita also it is amply clear that it is God himself who is sitting inside us and he is the one who does everything and makes us do it, whether good or bad. He brought us into this world, with no selfish motive, but due to his infinite love for us and gave us consciousness and everything else. From the past history of mankind and that of each one of us, he is the one who does: raaee se parvat karay parvat raaee maahi, i.e. he can make a mustard seed into a mountain and a mountain into a raaee. So, it is apparent that he is the one who is doing everything, enjoying through us and also suffering and that's why Hindu mythology is full of predictions for thousand and thousand of years; for example Ahilya, who became a stone due to a curse of her husband, was only released when Bhagwan Ram touched her with his feet after thousands of years, which was already predicted. So, everything is already WRITTEN. JAI SITARAMJIKI.SHER AGRAWAL On 9/21/07, G. Vaidyanathan <nathangv wrote: According to me God is both doer and facilitator. He is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.All creations in this world are His doings. He facilitates the human beings in completing their tasks, provided they surrender totally unto Him Even an iota of ego, will keep God faraway from us. We have to understand the philosophy of "Sharanagati" to really know HIM. With Pranams, Vaidyanathan From: bhatialalit@ Tue, 18 Sep 2007 05:25:15 +0000 Is God a doer or a facilitator? Is God a doer or a facilitator? The answer to this question will clarify the doubts regarding bhagya (fate) and karma (actions). Gita Talk GuidelinesFROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Respected Sadhak, The original question is whether the God is a 'doer' or a 'facilitator'. And how an answer to this is related to Bhagya and Karma need to be scanned. Shri Vaidyanathan is correct, that God is Omnipotent and as such he is both a Doer and a facilitator. Let us discuss and dwell upon this in the light of the principals of 'Karma' (which encompasses both Doer and Facilitator) as narrated by the Lord HimseIf in Gita. 1. All the Kriya (activities/actions) are in the Nature (Prakriti). The God is Chetan Tatva. There are no vibes or activites in the Chetan Tatva. The imperishable soul (chetan tatva) is transcendental, eternal and beyond the modes of Nature (Prakriti) and despite of it being situated in a material body, it does not engage in any Material Activities. - Gita Ch 13 V 31. 2. Person convinced by false ego (Ahankar) thinks he is the doer. Gita Ch 3 V 27.3. A person in Divine Conciousness knows that all activites are happening in the nature and he is aloof from them. Gita Ch 5 Ver 8-9. 4. The Divine Conciousness or the Chetan Tatva, embodied in a Material Body, does not create activites, does not prompt people to act, nor does he produce the fruits of action (Karma Fal) Gita Ch 5 V 14. 5. Shri Krishna says though I am the creator, yet you should know that I am the NONDOER. (viddhi mam akartaram) Ch 4 V 13. There are many more instances in Shri Gita, where this matter is deliberated. For our present context, these should be enough. The Divine Bliss do not carry any vibrations or activities. All the actions happen or are performed in the material world. Sushil Kumar Jalan On 9/21/07, G. Vaidyanathan <nathangv wrote: According to me God is both doer and facilitator. He is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.All creations in this world are His doings. He facilitates the human beings in completing their tasks, provided they surrender totally unto Him Even an iota of ego, will keep God faraway from us. We have to understand the philosophy of " Sharanagati " to really know HIM. With Pranams, Vaidyanathan From: bhatialalit@ Tue, 18 Sep 2007 05:25:15 +0000 Is God a doer or a facilitator? Is God a doer or a facilitator? The answer to this question will clarify the doubts regarding bhagya (fate) and karma (actions). Gita Talk GuidelinesFROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Hello all, This is my humble opinion. To understand whether God is doer or facilitator, just try to analyze as to why this question arose in you and this will be a start to your own analysis. Again, it does not matter whether God is that or God is this...try to remember that "God" feeling however you define it and try to meditate on that slowly. Everything is that Supreme Being. Please see the verse in Gita 9.16 which states as " But it is I who am the ritual, I the sacrifice, the offering to the ancestors, the healing herb, the transcendental chant. I am the butter (ghee) and the fire and the offering". Regards. From: bhatialalit@ Tue, 18 Sep 2007 05:25:15 +0000 Is God a doer or a facilitator? Is God a doer or a facilitator? The answer to this question will clarify the doubts regarding bhagya (fate) and karma (actions). Gita Talk GuidelinesFROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 AS PER GITA THERE IS NO INDIVIDUAL DOER. THE ENTIRE BATTLE BETWEEN KAURAVAS & PANDAVAS WAS FOR ESTABLISHMENT OF DHARMA, TRUTH & RIGHTOUSNESS STEERED BY GREAT WARRIERS AND GUIDED BY THE LORD HIMSELF. AT THE END LORD DEMONSTRATED TO BHIMA THAT THE CONQUERER IS " MAYA " AND THERE IS NO DOER.THE RESPONSIBILITY WAS COLLECTIVE & NON-BIASED .THE VICTORY WAS OF RIGHTOUSNESS AND HONESTY. RIGHTOUSNESS & H ONESTY ARE REQUIRED TO BE PRACTICED BY ALL SO THAT THE ESSENCE OF GITA CAN BECOME OUR GREAT HERITAGE. SUN SHINE IS PURE AND NOT BIASED TO ANY BODY OR ANYTHING. THAT IS THE TRUTH REGARDS N.PANDA ------------ Dear Sadhkas, Namaste! > Doesn't this question assume God is separate from all > of us sentients and insentients beings? If so, then > only such question can be postulated, I would think. > If not, then, we as " individual doers " is not > possible. It is only God who is acting without a cause > when any one of us acts or some of us act or anything > happens! Laws of physics and spiritual are themeslves > also God! It is analogus to Sun shining, it is its > nature, not doing any effort, and yet all life is > possible because of Sun. > God when deeply and experrientially understood, would > answer such questions far better! > Namaskars................Pratap > > --- bhatialalit <bhatialalit wrote: > >> Is God a doer or a facilitator? The answer to this >> question will clarify the doubts regarding bhagya >> (fate) and karma (actions). >> >> Gita Talk Guidelines >> >> FROM THE MODERATOR >> >> The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk >> discussions. >> >> 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify >> their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses >> to be posted, they must further clarify the >> understanding of Gitaji. >> 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other >> scriptures to substantiate the response >> 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs >> etc. >> 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the >> point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). >> 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. >> 6. Please do not include links to other sites or >> other organizations >> 7. Please do not include your personal information >> such as phone number, address etc. >> 8. Kindly do not address the response to a >> particular individual, since the message is going to >> the entire group. >> 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will >> be posted. >> 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the >> posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate >> for distribution to the group. >> 11. Please respond taking into consideration >> novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. >> Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and >> provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed >> wherever possible. >> >> MODERATOR >> Ram Ram > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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