For Self realization, no instrument (kaarak) will be of any use

October 28, 2007

I like to get some clarification on the following statement in today's c[sadhaka] Perfection is Axiomatic (Oct 28, 2007)comments

Last sentence ..

Thus for Self realization, no instrument (kaarak) will be of any use

I am not clear on this. what instrument are you referring to ...Isn't Body , Mind and Intellect are the instruments used by SELF,

We have to use these instruments even in the pursuit of higher reality and self realization.. Is there any other way for self realization than

using the instruments that are given to us (which are matter) to realize the higher Truth and pursue path of self realization...

Thank you for the daily Gita excerpts..This is very enlightening to read ... I save them and read them again and again

Thanks again for doing this service- whoever is doing this

Regards

Umesh

Gita Talk Guidelines

FROM THE MODERATOR

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response

3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.

4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).

5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.

6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations

7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.

8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible.

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

October 29, 2007

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

I would like to point out as I have understood this.

Self realization is Direct perception of Truth of who

we are. (Aparokshanubhuti). Truth of Self We Are is

beyond mind-intellect which means we can never know

who we are as an object of our knowledge*, like we

know all other experiences of world with sense-organs

and mind. We assume ourselves as subject of all

objects that we claim to know. However, this subject

is not our body-mind or senses. The real subject is

God-Consciousness which we are!

Body-mind and world are instruments only after such

realization happens to play Divine Lila. In the

context Swamiji is talking about they become hindrance

as ignorance to get us attached to them when we think

they are " my " instruments. Of course we do use

mind-body-intellect to realize God. At some point in

our Sadhana we realize that we always were one with

God(are and will be) as though through this mind,

never realizing that the instrments are His and not

ours.

So the instruments are of no use if they are believed

to be mine, personal and hence hindrance, whereas if

they are realized as His, they work fine to take us to

Him!

Pratap

--- Umesh S-ra5759 <somanahalli.umesh

wrote:

> I like to get some clarification on the following

> statement in today's

> c[sadhaka] Perfection is Axiomatic (Oct 28,

> 2007)comments

> Last sentence ..

>

> Thus for Self realization, no instrument (kaarak)

> will be of any use

>

> I am not clear on this. what instrument are you

> referring to ...Isn't

> Body , Mind and Intellect are the instruments used

> by SELF,

> We have to use these instruments even in the pursuit

> of higher reality

> and self realization.. Is there any other way for

> self realization than

> using the instruments that are given to us (which

> are matter) to

> realize the higher Truth and pursue path of self

> realization...

>

> Thank you for the daily Gita excerpts..This is very

> enlightening to read

> ... I save them and read them again and again

> Thanks again for doing this service- whoever is

> doing this

> Regards

> Umesh

>

October 31, 2007

Jai Guru Datta Om Namah Shivay! Once, I was struggling to get a ticket to take a flight without which I would be stuck in a place far away where I felt it would be a pain to get accommodation etc because it is in some other country, some island etc etc; this was further complicated by the fact that I needed to be somewhere close to home to help someone who really needed me etc etc. While fully experiencing this struggle, I woke up (from my dream) and all my struggle to go some where and not being able to do so was all bogus. What is amazing is that a whole world with sky, civilization, hills, oceans come in to manifestation in my dreams which do not exist without ME; though they fool me to be bigger than ME, they do so only until I wake up. Dream is after all only one leg of consciousness; waking world is just another such leg where instruments

are not that different and they manage to fool us with Maya {veil of ignorance} just as well. Our goal is for us to realize that we are the Bindu in the symbol of OM by transcending all the curves of the OM where each curve is because of our ignorance. You are Complete, Truth & Everlasting and You need nothing {including instruments} because You are everything. I think [..] I need my instruments because I am still asleep in ignorance, but once I wake up it will seem rather silly of how I felt. Jnana {knowledge}

becomes Vijnana {Realization} which needs no instruments and as Maya {Ignorance} is lifted and I remain as ME and only ME {Self Realization} and then I will feel amused at my cosmic dream. ------------- When in "Realized Self" where everything is known to have come from "Self itself" which is Swayamprakash {Self-Illuminating} and Self-Contained, no instruments, but only knowledge, would really be acknolwledged as necessary though it seemed like they were --- This is how it needs to be interpreted. Sree Guru Datta! ShivMallikUmesh S-ra5759 <somanahalli.umesh wrote: I like to get some clarification on the following statement in today's c[sadhaka] Perfection is Axiomatic (Oct 28, 2007)comments Last sentence .. Thus for Self realization, no instrument (kaarak) will be of any use I am not clear on this. what instrument are you referring to ...Isn't Body , Mind and Intellect are the instruments used by SELF,

We have to use these instruments even in the pursuit of higher reality and self realization.. Is there any other way for self realization than using the instruments that are given to us (which are matter) to realize the higher Truth and pursue path of self realization... Thank you for the daily Gita excerpts..This is very enlightening to read ... I save them and read them again and again Thanks again for doing this service- whoever is doing this Regards Umesh Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include

your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram