Guest guest Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Dear Sir, I am a great follower of Swami Ji, I live in Frankfurt - Germany. My friends (Indians and Germans) here keep asking me "what is the proof that there is a GOD". How can one prove to someone that he should start believing in our allmighty GOD. I am talking about well read people and they also need some kind of solid proofs. I am sure you will be able to supply me with the right kind of answers. With best regards Yours sincerely Om Sen Datta Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Dear Omji,Ram Ram , Since you are a great follower of Pujya Swamiji , then i dont know why you could not give your friends a correct answer . One should not even need any proof to know whether there is God or not . A person should have faith and keep chanting the maha mantra " Hare Ram Hare Ram , Ram Ram Hare Hare , Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare . In doing so , in no time at all one will feel the presence of a supreme power -- and that is the LORD. Ram Ram -- Hemlata KhemkaODatta wrote: Dear Sir,I am a great follower of Swami Ji,I live in Frankfurt - Germany. My friends (Indians and Germans) here keep asking me "what is the proof that there is a GOD". How can one prove to someone that he should start believing in our allmighty GOD. I am talkingabout well read people and they also need some kind of solid proofs.I am sure you will be able to supply me with the right kind of answers.With best regardsYours sincerelyOm Sen DattaGita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Mail. See how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Ram Ram, To find an answer about the query on God, the following explanation from Swamiji may help. Ram Ram Tarun PS: A big thanks to the moderator and all for having started these groups and sending Swamiji's pravachan every day. Shree Hari: 14th November, 2007, Wednesday Ashwin Shukla Panchami, Vikram Samvat 2064, Budhvar Question: The ocean, the earth, the moon etc. it is born and operating under an eternal order through the divine force of "Nature" (Prakruti). Everything happening, is only through the living force of Nature (Prakriti). Rather why must we believe God as the powerful force behind this eternal order and this creation ? (Cont'd) Anyone that considers anyone else as greater than himself, has in reality accepted God, because wherever that greatness ends in terms of heritage and ancestery, there itself is God - "Poorveshaamapi Guruh kaalenaanavechedaat." (Patanjali Yogdarshan 1:26). When there is a person, then there is a certainty that he had a father at some time and that father also had some father. Wherever this ancestery, this father-son chain ends, there is God - "Pitaasi lokesya charaacharasya," (Gita 11:43). If there is a strong person, and there is another who is even stronger than him; that greater strength wherever it ends, it's name is God; because there is no One greater in strength than God. If some one is very knowledgeable, then there exists someone more knowledgable than him. Wherever this chain of even greater knowledge ends, it's name is God. Because no One is more knowledgable than God - "Gururgariyaan" (Gita 11:43). The point here is that strength, intellect, knowledge, capabilities, glories, beauty, and many wonderful qualities and characteristics, wherever the chain stops (i.e. where no one greater is found), There itself is God; because there is no one like Him - "na tvatsamosta bhyadhikah kutonyah" (Gita 11:43). In reality, God is only a subject of belief, not one of intellectual inquiry. Inquiry is only possible where there is inner inquisitiveness and quest for knowing and this inner quest to know is only on a subject that we may know a little bit about and may not know the other aspects. But that subject that we know absolutely nothing about, on that subject there is no quest to know, there is no inquiry on that thing. Regarding such subjects, it is mostly about believe, and we are independent in whether we believe or we don't believe. Just like this world that we are able to perceive with our senses, but in essence what is this world, we do not really know. In other words, this world is a subject of inquiry as we may know a little bit about it and there is quest to know. But God is not known at all through our senses, thus, God is not a subject of inquiry; God is subject of belief (faith). From "Hum Ishvar ko kyon maane ?" in Hindi pg 10 by Swami Ramsukhdasji Ram Ram For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami Ramsukhdasji's website. http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org To gain clarification on related issues, please send your questions to: To read online spiritual books, please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/ To read all previous messages, please visit: sadhaka/ P.S: Please pass on this message to whomever you think would benefit from the same hemlata khemka wrote: Dear Omji,Ram Ram , Since you are a great follower of Pujya Swamiji , then i dont know why you could not give your friends a correct answer . One should not even need any proof to know whether there is God or not . A person should have faith and keep chanting the maha mantra " Hare Ram Hare Ram , Ram Ram Hare Hare , Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare . In doing so , in no time at all one will feel the presence of a supreme power -- and that is the LORD. Ram Ram -- Hemlata Khemka ODatta wrote: Dear Sir, I am a great follower of Swami Ji, I live in Frankfurt - Germany. My friends (Indians and Germans) here keep asking me "what is the proof that there is a GOD". How can one prove to someone that he should start believing in our allmighty GOD. I am talking about well read people and they also need some kind of solid proofs. I am sure you will be able to supply me with the right kind of answers. With best regards Yours sincerely Om Sen Datta Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Mail. See how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 You want something to happen BUT it does not You do not want something BUT it comes to you-- So long as it happens this way U wonder WHY its so There is some power that make things happen and/or do not happen--this is INSPITE of UR meticulous planning etc This power is GOD Hope u got it BRP -------- There seems to be no answer to a question of the kind you are posed by your friends. It is essentially a matter of belief. To put it another way, even the name by which a person is known is his own belief. If on one day he refuses to accept that his name is "X", there is no power on earth that can force him to believe that his name is X. Even if we talk of the paths to achieve God, there are two. One propogates "First believe and then see". This is Bhakti. Second is "First see then believe". This is Gyan. The intellectuals who ask you this question, apparently fall in the second category. This is a very legitimate question. If, however, they really (honestly) want to know if there is God, they will need to do a lot of Sadhana to see for themselves, if there is God. There are three categories of people. Intelligent person is one who learns from other's experiences. Normal person is one who learns from his own experience. Fool is one who does not learn even from his own experience. Now, if we are talking of intelligent people posing you with the question, they have two options. Either they believe in the experience of the Great Sages, who had seen God, or they take the path of Gyan and give it a try. If they want to adopt the short cut, they may like to accept the words of the experinced. Alternatively, if they are serious in their question, they may choose to do meditation, as advised in the path of Gyan. This obviously, will take a long time. There is no being in the universe, who does not want happiness. However, is there a being, who inspite of all his best efforts to be happy, is happy??? This should give some idea of a power that controls the universe. This power may be named God. A.H.Dalmia -------- Sai ram the very mention of God proves HIS existence. I think the real question is not "if there is God?' but what is GOD? and How to experience HIM?' If I take you in an empty room and say look at that chair, you may revert saying there is no chair there as you know what a chair is. if I call a comb a stick you will laugh at me and correct me saying,"no it is comb a stick is different". you can deny, explain or correct only when you know the truth. other wise it is futile gossip. To Qualify discussing God or to accept or deny Him we need to first understand the concept of God. once we start on this path then you will find that such questions will become non-existent. TO your learned friend you could take them into the journey of self enquiry. The first and probably the last question in the spiritual journey is "Who am I?" ask your self this question and you will knwo all the answer. Know yourself and you will know GOD, hope this helps loving sai ram abhimanyu -------- Jai Guru Datta! Om Namah Shivay! People that want proof are acually crying for help to show them that there is in fact a higher meaning to life, but not quite the way we usually think. I, for one, am thankful for this question because it directly asks us to remember how we got here. Faith will come only after dislodging the disbelief from clutches of the misunderstood role & progress of Science in our (human) evolution. At the turn of century, Time magazine's top five unanswered questions included "Consciousness". It really doesnt take that long to turn skepticism into a productive inquiry once the "would be" seeker is ready - which doesnt happen until and unless their karmic equity resurfaces them from the depths of ego. What intrigued me personally was "coming across a gifted person" who could see past, present & the future to the extent I was speechless. As the veil of modern science is lifted, I began to wonder how much more there is with respect to such subtle principle that defies logic. Journey is harder, longer & painful for the skeptics that take the path of "I believe when I see it", but the journey will reach the awakening point from where there is no return. Is there a point to try & convince someone else who is not ready? but we can be there for them through their miseries which they too will have from time to time; it is only when they are in need of explanation for their personal grief and they ask for it, we can offer it; until then, we can only empathize. But then if the people we talk of are "us folks" only, our own "internal need" will direct our inner journey - with sufficient purushardha, we will come across "the necessary" experiences to stay on track and reach our goal. Sree Guru Datta! ShivMallik -------- om kalanki namah unless you see or experiance you can not develop faith i simply ask you that oxygen is the life saver to every human being then why they do not develop faith in it sir this is the diffrence in reality and novelty some body says some name and we develop faith as god why ! oxygen is the real god and it is in the atom form the real creator is only atom power or vishwa anu shakti or universal energy or vishnu omkalankinamahNITIN BORA -------- God- That was there, That is there, will be there. Everthing in the whole universe destroyed and created. Yuga after yuga, Manmanthra after Manmanthra. But God changeless and ever existing- Annadham For an ant the body desined to have knowledge about a very area. For certain animals larger extent of area. For man only about planets, earth, and a very little of solar galaxy system. For saints 14 galaxies universes. For a Niskama prema Baktha the GOD itself. B.sathyanarayan -------- The "Swamiji" needs to take stock of what is his religion. He sounds like a Christian. There is no "God" in Hinduism and, "of course" no such provable Being (n.) Male Creator. Swami Param -------- GOD does not need to prove Himself, for any one to follow Him. You start believing in GOD, and you will start understanding the presence of GOD every where. Because, even if any one says that he/she has seen GOD, there will always an element of disbelief. When we do a scientific research, we start experimenting and then get the results. First what we need is Shradhha and Vishwas, because without these two, nothing is possible to achieve, not even in any scientific theory/research. Pranam, Girish -------- ODatta wrote: Dear Sir,I am a great follower of Swami Ji,I live in Frankfurt - Germany. My friends (Indians and Germans) here keep asking me "what is the proof that there is a GOD". How can one prove to someone that he should start believing in our allmighty GOD. I am talkingabout well read people and they also need some kind of solid proofs.I am sure you will be able to supply me with the right kind of answers.With best regardsYours sincerelyOm Sen DattaGita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 The Proof of God By : Awdhesh K Singh Question: Who created man? Answer: God. Question: Who created God? Answer: Man. This debate about God is eternal in the mind of thinking human beings. He wants an answer but there is no clear answer. While theists believe that God created man, atheists believe just the opposite. Who is right and who is wrong? We dont know. Why must we know the answer of this question? Because, this question is too important for mankind to ignore as most of the present day conflicts of the world are closely connected with this question. The most common argument of the scientists and atheists for denying the existence of God is that there is no proof for the existence of God. Another reason why it is difficult to believe God is that every religion or sect has their own concept of God and different methods of worship. Often these concepts are so divergent that it is impossible to believe that they are referring to the same God. No person can dispute the fact that there has to be only one God irrespective of the religious beliefs. After all realities like sun and earth don t depend on the faith of an individual. How can we resolve these contradictions that exist between the different faiths? In different times, great philosophers used the story of " six blind men and an elephant " to explain such contradiction. The story is as following Six blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant s body. The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe. All the blind man were telling the truth as they believed. Why did they err? Because, all of them knew only partial truth. They could not grasp the whole Truth due to their lack of vision. Similar can be said about the concept of God. Gandhi believed that there in no God except Truth. No one can deny that Truth is eternal and also one. Truth is sacrosanct and the goal of all human beings including science and religion. Hence the necessity to find a single Truth about God that is consistent with all religions and sciences and acceptable to all. Who is God? God is understood in different religion in different forms. In Indian philosophy, God is not considered to be an external reality but it is considered to be internal in all realities. God in all and All in God truly represents this philosophy. Lord Krishna describes the origin of universe as following (Gita VII 4-7): Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky, Mind, Reason and Ego- thus eightfold are my Nature. This is my lower aspect; but know thou My other aspect, the higher – which is jiva (Atman) by which this world is sustained. Know that these two compose the source from which all beings spring; I am the origin and the end of the entire Universe. There is nothing higher than Me. All things are strung on Me as a row of gems upon a thread " In simple words, there is a material aspect of all the entities that we can see and know. These material realities are eightfold. The Earth, water, air, fire and sky refers to the five states of matter i.e. solid, liquid, Gaseous, plasma and pure energy or electromagnetic waves that fill the sky. Mind too is a material reality as it can also be measured by tests like IQ tests. Mind is, therefore, often known as the " sixth " sense. Reason is a unique ability of mankind that enables the man to discover the mysteries of nature, and find pattern between dissimilar and isolated things or events. Ego provides each reality an identity of our own different from the rest of the realities of the world. It is due to the illusion of the material realities that we see all beings as distinct and different from each other. Yet all the realities can be compared with the garland of gems where all individual gems are joined with each other by a common thread. This thread is invisible to senses and it can be compared with Soul of Universe or God. By another analogy, if God can be compared with a human body, then individuals represents a cell of the body God is, therefore, referred as Paramtama or the Universal Soul and the universe as his body. The individual souls are believed to be the spark of the universal soul. We can, therefore, define " God as the universal soul that is common in everything " based on this understanding, The DNA of God The material world has been well understood and explained by scientists. We will try to use the same knowledge for the understanding of God. Science often fails to answer the basic questions relating to mater including the " Why " and " How " of the relationships between different realities. For example, it can measure and find the force between two different charges or mass, yet it can t explain why it is so and how it is created. It can explain, the structure of an atom, but fail to explain how and why an atom was made in the first place. Similarly, no scientific principle can explain how the life or universe was created. Though both science and religions have created theories to explain such basic questions, yet no one prove or disapprove something has happened in the period of billions of years, when the life of man is limited to merely hundred years. Further, these theories are too complex to be understood by a common man. Einstein believed that the best theories are those which are simple and explain many different phenomena. He said " When the solution is simple, God is answering. " Science has proved that each cell of the body has a unique characteristic of the person. A person can be identified by the testing of the DNA of any part of his or her body, be it skin, hair, nail or heart. Even saliva can give adequate evidence of the identity of the person. The DNA of the person is also closely related to his parents, and today its testing is the most common method to determine paternity (or maternity). If God is the Universal Soul and all its creations are similar to cells of the body cells then the DNA of all cells must have something in common and they must be designed to work with each other just like billions of cells of a body are related to each other and work like once unit. Science, however, treats each entity separately having no relationship with divergent realities. It is for this reason that certain facts can t be explained by material understanding of the universe and one has to accept the Truth of all pervading spirit. The existence of this all pervading spirit can provide the proof of God. The Proof of God Lord Krishna demonstrate the presence of God I all beings in Gita (Gita VII, 8-11) In water, I am (God is) the savour, In Sun and Moon, I am the light, I am the AUM of Vedas, I am the words in the Sky and the strength in man. I am the pious fragrance of Earth, the brilliance in fire, the life in all beings and the austerity of the ascetics. Know Me to be the life of all beings. I am the wisdom of the wise and the aura of the great man. In the strong, I am the strength devoid of lust and passion; In all living beings, I am the righteous desire. How can these examples provide the proof of God? It is because all these realities are reflection of the same entity that is common in all the creations yet can t be explained by logic as we shall see later. The discussion abut these realities can establish that these realities are created together from one entity (God) just like all different parts of the body are created from a single cell of human body. Water All creatures of the world (earth) are dependent on water for their survival. In fact the scientist considers the presence of water in a planet as the proof of life. No life can exist without water. Why water when there are thousands of other liquids available on this planet? This is a mystery as no logic can explain it. Why everything is so much dependent on water?. The answer seems to be that water and life are not designed separately but created together from one source. Light and Sound Scientists have established that light is nothing but electromagnetic waves. They have discovered and in fact created many electromagnetic waves whose wavelengths may vary from hundreds of kilometers to one millionth of a millionth meter. Out of such a wide spectrum of electromagnetic waves produced in the universe , the eyes of the man can sense or see only a small spectrum of wavelengths that are within 0.4 to 0.8 micrometer (1 micrometer = one millionth of a meter). Man can see an object only if it emits or reflects the waves of this small frequency range. Yet it is a fact that almost all material objects reflects or emits wavelengths of electromagnetic waves that are in this range of frequency. Fortunately for species of the earth, the waves of all other lights are absorbed by the atmosphere of earth miraculously. Imagine Sun or Moon to have just 10% higher or lower (in wavelength or frequency) emission of the wavelength of the visible spectrum or the atmosphere fail to absorb them. These wavelengths (infrared and ultraviolet) are so dangerous to eyes, that we could all have become blind by watching these lights. Why only such frequency of waves is created in abundance that is suitable to our eyes is a mystery that no logic can explain. Similar is the case with the vibration in air that is known as sound. The vibrations of sound and light are very special as they vibrate the man and every creature of the world. They produced happiness and create beauty which is unexplainable and mysterious. Unified Knowledge The Sanskrit word Veda means " knowledge " or " wisdom " is derived from the root vid- " to know " . The syllable AUM represents Brahma or Universe or the concept of Union of all realities. Thus AUM represents the knowledge that all realities of the universe are one. Only man has this knowledge. It is only due to this knowledge that man could find relationships and the secrets of the universe. Aum represents the common Truth that prevails in every single creation of the universe and it represents the common law that governs the world. This knowledge in man has caused all growth of science, philosophy and religion. Scientist have only proved these intuitions or hidden knowledge with logic and material evidence to convince the world while philosophers and holy man used faith to convince the world. Yet how such knowledge came in the mind of man is not explainable unless it is presumed that this knowledge was already in man that got triggered from the external observation that acted as trigger. The artists and the scientist have also discovered this mystery of the Universe that enabled them to comprehend the Universe by understanding the Soul of the Universe that lies within us. Einstein summarized his quest of knowledge when he said " I just want to know the thoughts of God. The rest are details. " Artists and poets have discovered the same Truth about the world. Paulo Coelho discovers the same Truth in his classic " The Alchemist " in following words There is one principle that governs all things. In alchemy it is called the Soul of the World. When you want something with all your heart, that s when you are closest to the Soul of the World. ..Everything on earth is being continuously transformed because the earth is alive.. And it has a soul. We are part of the soul, so we rarely recognize that it is working for us. ..that the most important text in the literature of alchemy contained only a few lines, and had been inscribed on the surface of an emerald. In alchemist, the boy could discover this Knowledge as Paulo Coelho wrote in following words. The boy reached through to the Soul of the World, and he saw that it was part of the God. And he saw that the Soul of God was his own soul. The presence of this Universal Knowledge or AUM in all beings is the proof of God as it demonstrates that we are part of the universal soul or God. Selfless Duty and Righteous Desire Selfless duty is another reality which is not explainable logically. People die for the sake of their duty and the righteous cause without any personal benefit. Man is so bound by his sense of duty and righteous cause that he can lay his life for the cause that is in benefit of the mankind or universe. There can be no logical explanation for sacrificing one s life for a cause or an unknown person, There is something in all of us which force us to do our rightful duties. We achieve happiness only when follow the right cause without selfish motive. This is most natural desire. You hurt a child and the mother would like to take hit you back. It is true even for animals. You see a weak and helpless man in misery and a desire come to your mind to remove that misery. The source of such benevolence and kind desire is unknown. You see a selfish person and you want to damage him. You see a good man and you feel like respecting him. We sometimes call such emotions as the voice of conscious, inner voice or the voice of heart. If we can t feel such emotions, we are called heartless. Why such emotions seems to emerge from heart because, it comes without any logic or reason. There can be no logical explanation for such inner voice that are self-inflictive yet guides all men throughout their life. Men who fail to recognize this voice looses his touch with God and get nothing but mystery despite of all material wealth of the world. This desire of man represents the proof of God as it establishes that a has a natural desire to treat the entire world as part of him and feel happy to do good for others. Conclusions True understanding of God requires the understanding of the soul of religion and sciences rather than then words. God is the soul of universe and present in all realities. We do have the capacity of understand God and His creations since we are part of God and have a common soul. Yet such understanding and knowledge comes so naturally to us that we seldom realize the source of knowledge. However, once we use our soul to understand the world, we understand the knowledge automatically and find simple solutions for the complex problems of our life. Einstein rightly said " When the solution is simple, God is answering " . It is because the entire world is governed from simple laws or Truths which is known to us provided we use our emotions and experience to understand it. For a logical mind such " obvious " knowledge seems mysterious as Einstein said " The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. " This mystery is God, ever present in us yet leaving no proof of His presence. -- I am very happy by the experience of thought received through the group. Human beings are after money and worldly happiness (bhautik sukh), but there are many people that are thinking about GOD and spiritual thought. I hope you may send us email regarding fresh experience through Gita talk. PRAVINCHANDRA JOSHI -- <p> What to happen or what not to happen is from your previous Prarabdha Karma. Like one works for 30 days and gets salary on 3oth day. What you earned from previous actions or from previous birth comes to you. This is computerised and GOD remains wittness. If one reads from Kapila Geetha this could be understood. One should do the best possible adhering to rules laid in Veda in this birth to elevate himself. Ex The old lady Goony in Sri Ramayan spoke to Kaikeyi to send Rama to forest. When Sri Rama came from forest, HE saw the lady first and thanked her. But for her act she was born as disfigured woman during Sri Krishna` s period. Lord gave her a beatiful form after taking chandan from her. The dobby who spoke ill of mother Seetha was born as Rasagan during Krishna` s period and lord gave a blow sending him underground. Vaali who gave life for Sri Rama` s arrow was born as JARA (hunter) during Krishna` s period. This Jara by mistake injures Lord Krishna big finger on leg by an arrow. Jara realising his mistake pleads lord to forgive. But Lord asks him to take a boon. Accordingly the hunter asks Lord to grant him heavens with the body. So was given. King Dasaratha killed a saints son by mistake. The curse was given that King should suffer the seperation of his (king) son and die. So it happened. The prakuthi is designed in such a manner, that one reaps what he sowed. But by the grace of Guru or Lord things can change to pleasantness. Again there are many examples B.Sathyanarayan -- Dear Sadakas, This is an ancient question. Narendra asked this question to Gurudev Sri Ramakrishna. Narendra realised God. A car is able to move because it gets motive force from the engine. A driver directs the car Without the driver the car will not move. Human body is like a car. we are able to move because there is vital force within us. He is the driver. Where from the Vital force has come. When this Vital force leaves man, we call it a dead body. Who has been instrumental in activating this vital force? Where is that force ? Who has given the body this vital force ? How I am able to see, speak, breathe ? Can any one give this Vital force? The one who has given this body with Vital force is God. Think of the human body, the various faculties, memory, affectionate heart and great qualities. Look at the myriad of creation in the universe ! Who made the rose ? Can I collect honey from the flowers ? A dog gets the scent of the culprit and locates him but we intelligent beings unable to do so. We cannot see him with our physical eyes. We must have the eyes like the one Lord had given to Sanjaya. Arjuna was a great friend of Krishna but he never believed he is the Lord. He asked him show his swaroopa. When he showed him, Arjuna was afraid and requested to return to normal form. Those who have seen Lord get a great awakening but they cannot pass on their experience to others. His Grace is the only way. Read scripture with faith. Faith comes from associating with devotees. Devotees can be located by thier calm and quite nature and sparkling and penetrating eyes. Mother Jasoda saw the whole universe in the mouth of baby Krishna. We have to earn the qualifications to have his vision. With our limited scale of vision we want to fathom the infinite ! Dasan, Sridharan, -- Krishna, Ram ,Allah, Jesus, Etc are different characters for the same script. Important is that the essence of Spirituality is to realise yourself. Like there is always a demo you get when you purchase some game or software , similarly these characters are demo of the behaviour you should inculcate . Crisp essence of Gita is Selfless action ....and how to become selfless? is by leaving your results to god and by not caring about them even if they are good. Every successful man sets his goal but doesnt keep thinking his goal in a pleasing way , such that as if how pleasing it will be if he gets good or how sorrowful if he gets bad . he seperates himself from the fruit. He enjoys the action thats all . But you can still remember lord krishna as a character because he is so pleasing and divine that has no explaination and really a symbol of perfectness. Like Eklavya who kept a symbol of his ideal drona charya in front of him and practised dhanur vidya and reached perfection, similarly you can keep remembering this true and divine roop of the almighty and reach that kind of perfection . As you think.. so you become. Finally i will say that Regular reading of gita can make you feel divine ...... and really divine. love you all Saurav Bangalore ------ -- In , mallik kotamarti <mkotamarti wrote: > > Jai Guru Datta! > Om Namah Shivay! > > People that want proof are acually crying for help to show them that there is in fact a higher meaning to life, but not quite the way we usually think. > > I, for one, am thankful for this question because it directly asks us to remember how we got here. > > Faith will come only after dislodging the disbelief from clutches of the misunderstood role & progress of Science in our (human) evolution. At the turn of century, Time magazine's top five unanswered questions included " Consciousness " . > > It really doesnt take that long to turn skepticism into a productive inquiry once the " would be " seeker is ready - which doesnt happen until and unless their karmic equity resurfaces them from the depths of ego. > > What intrigued me personally was " coming across a gifted person " who could see past, present & the future to the extent I was speechless. As the veil of modern science is lifted, I began to wonder how much more there is with respect to such subtle principle that defies logic. > > Journey is harder, longer & painful for the skeptics that take the path of " I believe when I see it " , but the journey will reach the awakening point from where there is no return. > > Guru deploys " miracles " to keep his followers on track. Guru is the all pervading Guru principle of illumination. > > Until karmic debt is paid for and the person is really ready, the journey doesnt begin in the sense that encounters with gifted people or Guru or miracles do not happen. > > So is there a point to try & convince someone else who is not ready? > > but we can be there for them through their miseries which they too will have from time to time; it is only when they are in need of explanation for their personal grief and they ask for it, we can offer it; until then, we can only empathize. > > But then if the people we talk of are " us folks " only, our own " internal need " will direct our inner journey - with sufficient purushardha, we will come across " the necessary " experiences to stay on track and reach our goal. > > Sree Guru Datta! > ShivMallik > > ODatta wrote: > Dear Sir, > I am a great follower of Swami Ji, > I live in Frankfurt - Germany. My friends (Indians and Germans) here keep asking me " what is the proof that there is a GOD " . How can one prove > to someone that he should start believing in our allmighty GOD. I am talking > about well read people and they also need some kind of solid proofs. > I am sure you will be able to supply me with the right kind of answers. > With best regards > Yours sincerely > Om Sen Datta ---------- Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, > if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 God is ever existing. The meaning of Visnu is all pervading. Scriptures describe many matters which could be understood only after deep contemplation. Simple things that saints have said. Can you see butter in milk? Can you say there are no stars during day? Can you see air? Can you see electricity? Can you see magnetism? etc. Do you believe in them because you see or feel them? You need to mechanise something to produce electricity. So you need to bring all 16 thousand billion cell in brain to one focus point. Then in human body there is a nerve known as "Susubha Naadi", which gives light through forehead to understand that energy. To produce any energy you to need knowlegde to put things together and time in assembling and running it. To know GOD just like that is not possible. Vedas have clearly said that GOD is Omnipresent. God is said in Sanskrit in Veda, "Apprameyam" Prameyam means object. Apprameyam means Not Object. God energy is in non-living and living things all pervading. For so many Bakthas HE had given vision, astama Sidhis, Moksha, and even sent flying object to Sant Tukaram and Poothanam in 16th century witnessed by many. One who has realization stops arguements, and knows there is singular energy GOD that which is present everywhere. He realizes that there is nothing is in his control, that he is born on this earth to perform a role which he himself created. Such person is Gnaani. Humans have very limited knowledge over this body. Still so many diseases are left uncured. Man has no control even over his body / mind, yet he speaks about everything around him. There are many solar systems made of differant elements. The nearest star is 40 light years from earth. A scientist said looking at flower, "if i can understand you (flower) I can understand GOD". The whole solar system of ours are maintained by 33 crores of demi gods. Like Vaayu, Varnan, Agni, Yama etc The whole system is computerised in such a manner that all living things gets what it deserves. Birth after birth one can go hunting behind desires or one can get out of cycle of birth. Everthing is clearly explained in Upanishads. One needs to study to grasp that knowledge. B.Sathyanarayan----pklamba231 <pklamba231 wrote: The Proof of GodBy : Awdhesh K Singh Question: Who created man?Answer: God.Question: Who created God?Answer: Man.This debate about God is eternal in the mind of thinking human beings. He wants an answer but there is no clear answer. While theists believe that God created man, atheists believe just the opposite. Who is right and who is wrong? We dont know. Why must we know the answer of this question? Because, this question is too important for mankind to ignore as most of the present day conflicts of the world are closely connected with this question.The most common argument of the scientists and atheists for denying the existence of God is that there is no proof for the existence of God. Another reason why it is difficult to believe God is that every religion or sect has their own concept of God and different methods of worship. Often these concepts are so divergent that it is impossible to believe that they are referring to the same God. No person can dispute the fact that there has to be only one God irrespective of the religious beliefs. After all realities like sun and earth don t depend on the faith of an individual. How can we resolve these contradictions that exist between the different faiths?In different times, great philosophers used the story of "six blind men and an elephant" to explain such contradiction. The story is as followingSix blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant s body.The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.All the blind man were telling the truth as they believed. Why did they err? Because, all of them knew only partial truth. They could not grasp the whole Truth due to their lack of vision. Similar can be said about the concept of God.Gandhi believed that there in no God except Truth. No one can deny that Truth is eternal and also one. Truth is sacrosanct and the goal of all human beings including science and religion. Hence the necessity to find a single Truth about God that is consistent with all religions and sciences and acceptable to all.Who is God?God is understood in different religion in different forms. In Indian philosophy, God is not considered to be an external reality but it is considered to be internal in all realities. God in all and All in God truly represents this philosophy. Lord Krishna describes the origin of universe as following (Gita VII 4-7):Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky, Mind, Reason and Ego- thus eightfold are my Nature. This is my lower aspect; but know thou My other aspect, the higher – which is jiva (Atman) by which this world is sustained. Know that these two compose the source from which all beings spring; I am the origin and the end of the entire Universe. There is nothing higher than Me. All things are strung on Me as a row of gems upon a thread"In simple words, there is a material aspect of all the entities that we can see and know. These material realities are eightfold. The Earth, water, air, fire and sky refers to the five states of matter i.e. solid, liquid, Gaseous, plasma and pure energy or electromagnetic waves that fill the sky. Mind too is a material reality as it can also be measured by tests like IQ tests. Mind is, therefore, often known as the "sixth" sense. Reason is a unique ability of mankind that enables the man to discover the mysteries of nature, and find pattern between dissimilar and isolated things or events. Ego provides each reality an identity of our own different from the rest of the realities of the world.It is due to the illusion of the material realities that we see all beings as distinct and different from each other. Yet all the realities can be compared with the garland of gems where all individual gems are joined with each other by a common thread. This thread is invisible to senses and it can be compared with Soul of Universe or God. By another analogy, if God can be compared with a human body, then individuals represents a cell of the bodyGod is, therefore, referred as Paramtama or the Universal Soul and the universe as his body. The individual souls are believed to be the spark of the universal soul.We can, therefore, define "God as the universal soul that is common in everything" based on this understanding,The DNA of GodThe material world has been well understood and explained by scientists. We will try to use the same knowledge for the understanding of God. Science often fails to answer the basic questions relating to mater including the "Why" and "How" of the relationships between different realities. For example, it can measure and find the force between two different charges or mass, yet it can t explain why it is so and how it is created. It can explain, the structure of an atom, but fail to explain how and why an atom was made in the first place. Similarly, no scientific principle can explain how the life or universe was created.Though both science and religions have created theories to explain such basic questions, yet no one prove or disapprove something has happened in the period of billions of years, when the life of man is limited to merely hundred years. Further, these theories are too complex to be understood by a common man. Einstein believed that the best theories are those which are simple and explain many different phenomena. He said "When the solution is simple, God is answering."Science has proved that each cell of the body has a unique characteristic of the person. A person can be identified by the testing of the DNA of any part of his or her body, be it skin, hair, nail or heart. Even saliva can give adequate evidence of the identity of the person. The DNA of the person is also closely related to his parents, and today its testing is the most common method to determine paternity (or maternity).If God is the Universal Soul and all its creations are similar to cells of the body cells then the DNA of all cells must have something in common and they must be designed to work with each other just like billions of cells of a body are related to each other and work like once unit. Science, however, treats each entity separately having no relationship with divergent realities. It is for this reason that certain facts can t be explained by material understanding of the universe and one has to accept the Truth of all pervading spirit. The existence of this all pervading spirit can provide the proof of God.The Proof of GodLord Krishna demonstrate the presence of God I all beings in Gita (Gita VII, 8-11) In water, I am (God is) the savour, In Sun and Moon, I am the light, I am the AUM of Vedas, I am the words in the Sky and the strength in man. I am the pious fragrance of Earth, the brilliance in fire, the life in all beings and the austerity of the ascetics. Know Me to be the life of all beings. I am the wisdom of the wise and the aura of the great man. In the strong, I am the strength devoid of lust and passion; In all living beings, I am the righteous desire.How can these examples provide the proof of God? It is because all these realities are reflection of the same entity that is common in all the creations yet can t be explained by logic as we shall see later. The discussion abut these realities can establish that these realities are created together from one entity (God) just like all different parts of the body are created from a single cell of human body.WaterAll creatures of the world (earth) are dependent on water for their survival. In fact the scientist considers the presence of water in a planet as the proof of life. No life can exist without water. Why water when there are thousands of other liquids available on this planet? This is a mystery as no logic can explain it. Why everything is so much dependent on water?. The answer seems to be that water and life are not designed separately but created together from one source.Light and SoundScientists have established that light is nothing but electromagnetic waves. They have discovered and in fact created many electromagnetic waves whose wavelengths may vary from hundreds of kilometers to one millionth of a millionth meter. Out of such a wide spectrum of electromagnetic waves produced in the universe , the eyes of the man can sense or see only a small spectrum of wavelengths that are within 0.4 to 0.8 micrometer (1 micrometer = one millionth of a meter).Man can see an object only if it emits or reflects the waves of this small frequency range. Yet it is a fact that almost all material objects reflects or emits wavelengths of electromagnetic waves that are in this range of frequency. Fortunately for species of the earth, the waves of all other lights are absorbed by the atmosphere of earth miraculously. Imagine Sun or Moon to have just 10% higher or lower (in wavelength or frequency) emission of the wavelength of the visible spectrum or the atmosphere fail to absorb them. These wavelengths (infrared and ultraviolet) are so dangerous to eyes, that we could all have become blind by watching these lights.Why only such frequency of waves is created in abundance that is suitable to our eyes is a mystery that no logic can explain. Similar is the case with the vibration in air that is known as sound. The vibrations of sound and light are very special as they vibrate the man and every creature of the world. They produced happiness and create beauty which is unexplainable and mysterious.Unified KnowledgeThe Sanskrit word Veda means "knowledge" or "wisdom" is derived from the root vid- "to know". The syllable AUM represents Brahma or Universe or the concept of Union of all realities. Thus AUM represents the knowledge that all realities of the universe are one. Only man has this knowledge. It is only due to this knowledge that man could find relationships and the secrets of the universe.Aum represents the common Truth that prevails in every single creation of the universe and it represents the common law that governs the world. This knowledge in man has caused all growth of science, philosophy and religion. Scientist have only proved these intuitions or hidden knowledge with logic and material evidence to convince the world while philosophers and holy man used faith to convince the world. Yet how such knowledge came in the mind of man is not explainable unless it is presumed that this knowledge was already in man that got triggered from the external observation that acted as trigger.The artists and the scientist have also discovered this mystery of the Universe that enabled them to comprehend the Universe by understanding the Soul of the Universe that lies within us. Einstein summarized his quest of knowledge when he said "I just want to know the thoughts of God. The rest are details." Artists and poets have discovered the same Truth about the world. Paulo Coelho discovers the same Truth in his classic "The Alchemist" in following wordsThere is one principle that governs all things. In alchemy it is called the Soul of the World. When you want something with all your heart, that s when you are closest to the Soul of the World. ..Everything on earth is being continuously transformed because the earth is alive.. And it has a soul. We are part of the soul, so we rarely recognize that it is working for us. ..that the most important text in the literature of alchemy contained only a few lines, and had been inscribed on the surface of an emerald.In alchemist, the boy could discover this Knowledge as Paulo Coelho wrote in following words.The boy reached through to the Soul of the World, and he saw that it was part of the God. And he saw that the Soul of God was his own soul.The presence of this Universal Knowledge or AUM in all beings is the proof of God as it demonstrates that we are part of the universal soul or God.Selfless Duty and Righteous DesireSelfless duty is another reality which is not explainable logically. People die for the sake of their duty and the righteous cause without any personal benefit. Man is so bound by his sense of duty and righteous cause that he can lay his life for the cause that is in benefit of the mankind or universe. There can be no logical explanation for sacrificing one s life for a cause or an unknown person,There is something in all of us which force us to do our rightful duties. We achieve happiness only when follow the right cause without selfish motive. This is most natural desire. You hurt a child and the mother would like to take hit you back. It is true even for animals. You see a weak and helpless man in misery and a desire come to your mind to remove that misery. The source of such benevolence and kind desire is unknown. You see a selfish person and you want to damage him. You see a good man and you feel like respecting him. We sometimes call such emotions as the voice of conscious, inner voice or the voice of heart. If we can t feel such emotions, we are called heartless. Why such emotions seems to emerge from heart because, it comes without any logic or reason. There can be no logical explanation for such inner voice that are self-inflictive yet guides all men throughout their life. Men who fail to recognize this voice looses his touch with God and get nothing but mystery despite of all material wealth of the world. This desire of man represents the proof of God as it establishes that a has a natural desire to treat the entire world as part of him and feel happy to do good for others.ConclusionsTrue understanding of God requires the understanding of the soul of religion and sciences rather than then words. God is the soul of universe and present in all realities. We do have the capacity of understand God and His creations since we are part of God and have a common soul. Yet such understanding and knowledge comes so naturally to us that we seldom realize the source of knowledge. However, once we use our soul to understand the world, we understand the knowledge automatically and find simple solutions for the complex problems of our life.Einstein rightly said "When the solution is simple, God is answering". It is because the entire world is governed from simple laws or Truths which is known to us provided we use our emotions and experience to understand it. For a logical mind such "obvious" knowledge seems mysterious as Einstein said "The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science." This mystery is God, ever present in us yet leaving no proof of His presence.------------------------- I am very happy by the experience of thought received through the group. Human beings are after money and worldly happiness (bhautik sukh), but there are many people that are thinking about GOD and spiritual thought. I hope you may send us email regarding fresh experience through Gita talk.PRAVINCHANDRA JOSHI ------------------------- <p>What to happen or what not to happen is from your previous Prarabdha Karma. Like one works for 30 days and gets salary on 3oth day. What you earned from previous actions or from previous birth comes to you. This is computerised and GOD remains wittness. If one reads from Kapila Geetha this could be understood. One should do the best possible adhering to rules laid in Veda in this birth to elevate himself.Ex The old lady Goony in Sri Ramayan spoke to Kaikeyi to send Rama to forest. When Sri Rama came from forest, HE saw the lady first and thanked her. But for her act she was born as disfigured woman during Sri Krishna` s period. Lord gave her a beatiful form after taking chandan from her.The dobby who spoke ill of mother Seetha was born as Rasagan during Krishna` s period and lord gave a blow sending him underground.Vaali who gave life for Sri Rama` s arrow was born as JARA (hunter) during Krishna` s period. This Jara by mistake injures Lord Krishna big finger on leg by an arrow. Jara realising his mistake pleads lord to forgive. But Lord asks him to take a boon. Accordingly the hunter asks Lord to grant him heavens with the body. So was given.King Dasaratha killed a saints son by mistake. The curse was given that King should suffer the seperation of his (king) son and die. So it happened.The prakuthi is designed in such a manner, that one reaps what he sowed.But by the grace of Guru or Lord things can change to pleasantness. Again there are many examplesB.Sathyanarayan------------------------- Dear Sadakas,This is an ancient question. Narendra asked this question to Gurudev Sri Ramakrishna.Narendra realised God.A car is able to move because it gets motive force from the engine.A driver directs the carWithout the driver the car will not move. Human body is like a car. we are able to move because there is vital force within us. He is the driver.Where from the Vital force has come.When this Vital force leaves man, we call it a dead body.Who has been instrumental in activating this vital force?Where is that force ? Who has given the body this vital force ?How I am able to see, speak, breathe ?Can any one give this Vital force?The one who has given this body with Vital force is God.Think of the human body, the various faculties, memory, affectionate heart and great qualities.Look at the myriad of creation in the universe !Who made the rose ?Can I collect honey from the flowers ?A dog gets the scent of the culprit and locates him but we intelligent beings unable to do so.We cannot see him with our physical eyes.We must have the eyes like the one Lord had given to Sanjaya.Arjuna was a great friend of Krishna but he never believed he is the Lord.He asked him show his swaroopa. When he showed him, Arjuna was afraidand requested to return to normal form.Those who have seen Lord get a great awakening but they cannot pass ontheir experience to others. His Grace is the only way.Read scripture with faith. Faith comes from associating with devotees.Devotees can be located by thier calm and quite nature and sparkling and penetrating eyes.Mother Jasoda saw the whole universe in the mouth of baby Krishna.We have to earn the qualifications to have his vision.With our limited scale of vision we want to fathom the infinite !Dasan,Sridharan,------------------------- Krishna, Ram ,Allah, Jesus, Etc are different characters forthe same script. Important is that the essence of Spirituality is torealise yourself.Like there is always a demo you get when you purchase some game orsoftware , similarly these characters are demo of the behaviour youshould inculcate . Crisp essence of Gita is Selfless action ....andhow to become selfless? is by leaving your results to god and by notcaring about them even if they are good.Every successful man sets his goal but doesnt keep thinking his goalin a pleasing way , such that as if how pleasing it will be if hegets good or how sorrowful if he gets bad . he seperates himselffrom the fruit. He enjoys the action thats all .But you can still remember lord krishna as a character because he isso pleasing and divine that has no explaination and really a symbolof perfectness. Like Eklavya who kept a symbol of his ideal dronacharya in front of him and practised dhanur vidya and reachedperfection, similarly you can keep remembering this true and divineroop of the almighty and reach that kind of perfection .As you think.. so you become.Finally i will say that Regular reading of gita can make youfeel divine ...... and really divine.love you allSauravBangalore------------------------ , mallik kotamarti <mkotamarti wrote:>> Jai Guru Datta!> Om Namah Shivay!> > People that want proof are acually crying for help to show them that there is in fact a higher meaning to life, but not quite the way we usually think.> > I, for one, am thankful for this question because it directly asks us to remember how we got here.> > Faith will come only after dislodging the disbelief from clutches of the misunderstood role & progress of Science in our (human) evolution. At the turn of century, Time magazine's top five unanswered questions included "Consciousness". > > It really doesnt take that long to turn skepticism into a productive inquiry once the "would be" seeker is ready - which doesnt happen until and unless their karmic equity resurfaces them from the depths of ego.> > What intrigued me personally was "coming across a gifted person" who could see past, present & the future to the extent I was speechless. As the veil of modern science is lifted, I began to wonder how much more there is with respect to such subtle principle that defies logic.> > Journey is harder, longer & painful for the skeptics that take the path of "I believe when I see it", but the journey will reach the awakening point from where there is no return.> > Guru deploys "miracles" to keep his followers on track. Guru is the all pervading Guru principle of illumination.> > Until karmic debt is paid for and the person is really ready, the journey doesnt begin in the sense that encounters with gifted people or Guru or miracles do not happen.> > So is there a point to try & convince someone else who is not ready? > > but we can be there for them through their miseries which they too will have from time to time; it is only when they are in need of explanation for their personal grief and they ask for it, we can offer it; until then, we can only empathize.> > But then if the people we talk of are "us folks" only, our own "internal need" will direct our inner journey - with sufficient purushardha, we will come across "the necessary" experiences to stay on track and reach our goal.> > Sree Guru Datta!> ShivMallik> > ODatta wrote:> Dear Sir,> I am a great follower of Swami Ji,> I live in Frankfurt - Germany. My friends (Indians and Germans) here keep asking me "what is the proof that there is a GOD". How can one prove > to someone that he should start believing in our allmighty GOD. I am talking> about well read people and they also need some kind of solid proofs.> I am sure you will be able to supply me with the right kind of answers.> With best regards> Yours sincerely> Om Sen Datta-------------------------Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting,> if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 GLITTERING STARS SO FAR (MIND BLOWING THOUGHTS - CONTEMPLATE AND YOU WILL RISE) >>> Shiv Mallik So is there a point to try & convince someone else who is not ready? But we can be there for them through their miseries which they too will have from time to time; it is only when they are in need of explanation for their personal grief and they ask for it, we can offer it; until then, we can only empathize. >>>>Saurav Like Eklavya who kept a symbol of his ideal dronacharyain front of him and practised dhanur vidya and reached perfection, similarly you can keep remembering this true and divine roop of the almighty and reach that kind of perfection .As you think..so you become. >>>>Sridharan, We have to earn the qualifications to have his vision. With our limited scale of vision we want to fathom the infinite ! >>>>B.Sathyanarayan # The prakuthi is designed in such a manner, that one reaps what he sowed. But by the grace of Guru or Lord things can change to pleasantness. # The whole system is computerised in such a manner that all living things gets what it deserves. Birth after birth one can go hunting behind desires or one can get out of cycle of birth. Everthing is clearly explained in Upanishads. One needs to study to grasp that knowledge. HARE KRISHNA Now 2 points I add. Here we get firsthand exposure to write-ups, our sincere devotees feel like sharing. No scholarly arguments. It is divine bliss. Thanks Lord – moderators – members. Secondly, if we revert to original question and reply by Shiv Mallik ji, that reminds me a discourse by a swami ji I heard 2/3 days ago over television. Somebody asked swamiji, you people go on reciting and explaining same concepts again and again – how much people have mended their ways of life. Swamiji very politely, very humbly but smilingingly said " I am not here to rectify people – I am here to spread message of lord's devotion, love and satvikta.- You people oblige me by listening me as I am able to be contented that I HAVE PERFORMED MY NIYAT KARMA ( scheduled duties) by putting my efforts. The outcome is in hands of KANHA I will go on seedplanting. Kanha will monitor results " . Then swamiji encouraged the audience to MOTIVATE others to the way of devotion by explaining away their doubts. The persons asking are not strictly agnostics or atheists. Their questioning is indication. Now in view of the backgrounds of relevant persons, logics of their mental attitudes can be empathized. AGAIN HARE KRISHNA. On Dec 10, 2007 4:00 PM, baiya sathyanarayan <baiya07_sathya wrote: God is ever existing. The meaning of Visnu is all pervading. Scriptures describe many matters which could be understood only after deep contemplation. Simple things that saints have said. Can you see butter in milk? Can you say there are no stars during day? Can you see air? Can you see electricity? Can you see magnetism? etc. Do you believe in them because you see or feel them? You need to mechanise something to produce electricity. So you need to bring all 16 thousand billion cell in brain to one focus point. Then in human body there is a nerve known as " Susubha Naadi " , which gives light through forehead to understand that energy. To produce any energy you to need knowlegde to put things together and time in assembling and running it. To know GOD just like that is not possible. Vedas have clearly said that GOD is Omnipresent. God is said in Sanskrit in Veda, " Apprameyam " Prameyam means object. Apprameyam means Not Object. God energy is in non-living and living things all pervading. For so many Bakthas HE had given vision, astama Sidhis, Moksha, and even sent flying object to Sant Tukaram and Poothanam in 16th century witnessed by many. One who has realization stops arguements, and knows there is singular energy GOD that which is present everywhere. He realizes that there is nothing is in his control, that he is born on this earth to perform a role which he himself created. Such person is Gnaani. Humans have very limited knowledge over this body. Still so many diseases are left uncured. Man has no control even over his body / mind, yet he speaks about everything around him. There are many solar systems made of differant elements. The nearest star is 40 light years from earth. A scientist said looking at flower, " if i can understand you (flower) I can understand GOD " . The whole solar system of ours are maintained by 33 crores of demi gods. Like Vaayu, Varnan, Agni, Yama etc The whole system is computerised in such a manner that all living things gets what it deserves. Birth after birth one can go hunting behind desires or one can get out of cycle of birth. Everthing is clearly explained in Upanishads. One needs to study to grasp that knowledge. B.Sathyanarayan----pklamba231 <pklamba231 wrote: The Proof of GodBy : Awdhesh K Singh Question: Who created man?Answer: God.Question: Who created God?Answer: Man.This debate about God is eternal in the mind of thinking human beings. He wants an answer but there is no clear answer. While theists believe that God created man, atheists believe just the opposite. Who is right and who is wrong? We dont know. Why must we know the answer of this question? Because, this question is too important for mankind to ignore as most of the present day conflicts of the world are closely connected with this question. The most common argument of the scientists and atheists for denying the existence of God is that there is no proof for the existence of God. Another reason why it is difficult to believe God is that every religion or sect has their own concept of God and different methods of worship. Often these concepts are so divergent that it is impossible to believe that they are referring to the same God. No person can dispute the fact that there has to be only one God irrespective of the religious beliefs. After all realities like sun and earth don t depend on the faith of an individual. How can we resolve these contradictions that exist between the different faiths? In different times, great philosophers used the story of " six blind men and an elephant " to explain such contradiction. The story is as followingSix blind men were asked to determine what an elephant looked like by feeling different parts of the elephant s body.The blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who feels the tail says the elephant is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says the elephant is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says the elephant is like a hand fan; the one who feels the belly says the elephant is like a wall; and the one who feels the tusk says the elephant is like a solid pipe.All the blind man were telling the truth as they believed. Why did they err? Because, all of them knew only partial truth. They could not grasp the whole Truth due to their lack of vision. Similar can be said about the concept of God. Gandhi believed that there in no God except Truth. No one can deny that Truth is eternal and also one. Truth is sacrosanct and the goal of all human beings including science and religion. Hence the necessity to find a single Truth about God that is consistent with all religions and sciences and acceptable to all.Who is God?God is understood in different religion in different forms. In Indian philosophy, God is not considered to be an external reality but it is considered to be internal in all realities. God in all and All in God truly represents this philosophy. Lord Krishna describes the origin of universe as following (Gita VII 4-7):Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky, Mind, Reason and Ego- thus eightfold are my Nature. This is my lower aspect; but know thou My other aspect, the higher – which is jiva (Atman) by which this world is sustained. Know that these two compose the source from which all beings spring; I am the origin and the end of the entire Universe. There is nothing higher than Me. All things are strung on Me as a row of gems upon a thread " In simple words, there is a material aspect of all the entities that we can see and know. These material realities are eightfold. The Earth, water, air, fire and sky refers to the five states of matter i.e. solid, liquid, Gaseous, plasma and pure energy or electromagnetic waves that fill the sky. Mind too is a material reality as it can also be measured by tests like IQ tests. Mind is, therefore, often known as the " sixth " sense. Reason is a unique ability of mankind that enables the man to discover the mysteries of nature, and find pattern between dissimilar and isolated things or events. Ego provides each reality an identity of our own different from the rest of the realities of the world.It is due to the illusion of the material realities that we see all beings as distinct and different from each other. Yet all the realities can be compared with the garland of gems where all individual gems are joined with each other by a common thread. This thread is invisible to senses and it can be compared with Soul of Universe or God. By another analogy, if God can be compared with a human body, then individuals represents a cell of the bodyGod is, therefore, referred as Paramtama or the Universal Soul and the universe as his body. The individual souls are believed to be the spark of the universal soul.We can, therefore, define " God as the universal soul that is common in everything " based on this understanding,The DNA of GodThe material world has been well understood and explained by scientists. We will try to use the same knowledge for the understanding of God. Science often fails to answer the basic questions relating to mater including the " Why " and " How " of the relationships between different realities. For example, it can measure and find the force between two different charges or mass, yet it can t explain why it is so and how it is created. It can explain, the structure of an atom, but fail to explain how and why an atom was made in the first place. Similarly, no scientific principle can explain how the life or universe was created.Though both science and religions have created theories to explain such basic questions, yet no one prove or disapprove something has happened in the period of billions of years, when the life of man is limited to merely hundred years. Further, these theories are too complex to be understood by a common man. Einstein believed that the best theories are those which are simple and explain many different phenomena. He said " When the solution is simple, God is answering. " Science has proved that each cell of the body has a unique characteristic of the person. A person can be identified by the testing of the DNA of any part of his or her body, be it skin, hair, nail or heart. Even saliva can give adequate evidence of the identity of the person. The DNA of the person is also closely related to his parents, and today its testing is the most common method to determine paternity (or maternity).If God is the Universal Soul and all its creations are similar to cells of the body cells then the DNA of all cells must have something in common and they must be designed to work with each other just like billions of cells of a body are related to each other and work like once unit. Science, however, treats each entity separately having no relationship with divergent realities. It is for this reason that certain facts can t be explained by material understanding of the universe and one has to accept the Truth of all pervading spirit. The existence of this all pervading spirit can provide the proof of God.The Proof of GodLord Krishna demonstrate the presence of God I all beings in Gita (Gita VII, 8-11) In water, I am (God is) the savour, In Sun and Moon, I am the light, I am the AUM of Vedas, I am the words in the Sky and the strength in man. I am the pious fragrance of Earth, the brilliance in fire, the life in all beings and the austerity of the ascetics. Know Me to be the life of all beings. I am the wisdom of the wise and the aura of the great man. In the strong, I am the strength devoid of lust and passion; In all living beings, I am the righteous desire.How can these examples provide the proof of God? It is because all these realities are reflection of the same entity that is common in all the creations yet can t be explained by logic as we shall see later. The discussion abut these realities can establish that these realities are created together from one entity (God) just like all different parts of the body are created from a single cell of human body.WaterAll creatures of the world (earth) are dependent on water for their survival. In fact the scientist considers the presence of water in a planet as the proof of life. No life can exist without water. Why water when there are thousands of other liquids available on this planet? This is a mystery as no logic can explain it. Why everything is so much dependent on water?. The answer seems to be that water and life are not designed separately but created together from one source.Light and SoundScientists have established that light is nothing but electromagnetic waves. They have discovered and in fact created many electromagnetic waves whose wavelengths may vary from hundreds of kilometers to one millionth of a millionth meter. Out of such a wide spectrum of electromagnetic waves produced in the universe , the eyes of the man can sense or see only a small spectrum of wavelengths that are within 0.4 to 0.8 micrometer (1 micrometer = one millionth of a meter). Man can see an object only if it emits or reflects the waves of this small frequency range. Yet it is a fact that almost all material objects reflects or emits wavelengths of electromagnetic waves that are in this range of frequency. Fortunately for species of the earth, the waves of all other lights are absorbed by the atmosphere of earth miraculously. Imagine Sun or Moon to have just 10% higher or lower (in wavelength or frequency) emission of the wavelength of the visible spectrum or the atmosphere fail to absorb them. These wavelengths (infrared and ultraviolet) are so dangerous to eyes, that we could all have become blind by watching these lights.Why only such frequency of waves is created in abundance that is suitable to our eyes is a mystery that no logic can explain. Similar is the case with the vibration in air that is known as sound. The vibrations of sound and light are very special as they vibrate the man and every creature of the world. They produced happiness and create beauty which is unexplainable and mysterious.Unified KnowledgeThe Sanskrit word Veda means " knowledge " or " wisdom " is derived from the root vid- " to know " . The syllable AUM represents Brahma or Universe or the concept of Union of all realities. Thus AUM represents the knowledge that all realities of the universe are one. Only man has this knowledge. It is only due to this knowledge that man could find relationships and the secrets of the universe.Aum represents the common Truth that prevails in every single creation of the universe and it represents the common law that governs the world. This knowledge in man has caused all growth of science, philosophy and religion. Scientist have only proved these intuitions or hidden knowledge with logic and material evidence to convince the world while philosophers and holy man used faith to convince the world. Yet how such knowledge came in the mind of man is not explainable unless it is presumed that this knowledge was already in man that got triggered from the external observation that acted as trigger. The artists and the scientist have also discovered this mystery of the Universe that enabled them to comprehend the Universe by understanding the Soul of the Universe that lies within us. Einstein summarized his quest of knowledge when he said " I just want to know the thoughts of God. The rest are details. " Artists and poets have discovered the same Truth about the world. Paulo Coelho discovers the same Truth in his classic " The Alchemist " in following wordsThere is one principle that governs all things. In alchemy it is called the Soul of the World. When you want something with all your heart, that s when you are closest to the Soul of the World. ..Everything on earth is being continuously transformed because the earth is alive.. And it has a soul. We are part of the soul, so we rarely recognize that it is working for us. ..that the most important text in the literature of alchemy contained only a few lines, and had been inscribed on the surface of an emerald.In alchemist, the boy could discover this Knowledge as Paulo Coelho wrote in following words.The boy reached through to the Soul of the World, and he saw that it was part of the God. And he saw that the Soul of God was his own soul.The presence of this Universal Knowledge or AUM in all beings is the proof of God as it demonstrates that we are part of the universal soul or God. Selfless Duty and Righteous DesireSelfless duty is another reality which is not explainable logically. People die for the sake of their duty and the righteous cause without any personal benefit. Man is so bound by his sense of duty and righteous cause that he can lay his life for the cause that is in benefit of the mankind or universe. There can be no logical explanation for sacrificing one s life for a cause or an unknown person, There is something in all of us which force us to do our rightful duties. We achieve happiness only when follow the right cause without selfish motive. This is most natural desire. You hurt a child and the mother would like to take hit you back. It is true even for animals. You see a weak and helpless man in misery and a desire come to your mind to remove that misery. The source of such benevolence and kind desire is unknown. You see a selfish person and you want to damage him. You see a good man and you feel like respecting him. We sometimes call such emotions as the voice of conscious, inner voice or the voice of heart. If we can t feel such emotions, we are called heartless. Why such emotions seems to emerge from heart because, it comes without any logic or reason. There can be no logical explanation for such inner voice that are self-inflictive yet guides all men throughout their life. Men who fail to recognize this voice looses his touch with God and get nothing but mystery despite of all material wealth of the world. This desire of man represents the proof of God as it establishes that a has a natural desire to treat the entire world as part of him and feel happy to do good for others.ConclusionsTrue understanding of God requires the understanding of the soul of religion and sciences rather than then words. God is the soul of universe and present in all realities. We do have the capacity of understand God and His creations since we are part of God and have a common soul. Yet such understanding and knowledge comes so naturally to us that we seldom realize the source of knowledge. However, once we use our soul to understand the world, we understand the knowledge automatically and find simple solutions for the complex problems of our life.Einstein rightly said " When the solution is simple, God is answering " . It is because the entire world is governed from simple laws or Truths which is known to us provided we use our emotions and experience to understand it. For a logical mind such " obvious " knowledge seems mysterious as Einstein said " The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. " This mystery is God, ever present in us yet leaving no proof of His presence.------------------------- I am very happy by the experience of thought received through the group. Human beings are after money and worldly happiness (bhautik sukh), but there are many people that are thinking about GOD and spiritual thought. I hope you may send us email regarding fresh experience through Gita talk. PRAVINCHANDRA JOSHI ------------------------- <p>What to happen or what not to happen is from your previous Prarabdha Karma. Like one works for 30 days and gets salary on 3oth day. What you earned from previous actions or from previous birth comes to you. This is computerised and GOD remains wittness. If one reads from Kapila Geetha this could be understood. One should do the best possible adhering to rules laid in Veda in this birth to elevate himself.Ex The old lady Goony in Sri Ramayan spoke to Kaikeyi to send Rama to forest. When Sri Rama came from forest, HE saw the lady first and thanked her. But for her act she was born as disfigured woman during Sri Krishna` s period. Lord gave her a beatiful form after taking chandan from her. The dobby who spoke ill of mother Seetha was born as Rasagan during Krishna` s period and lord gave a blow sending him underground.Vaali who gave life for Sri Rama` s arrow was born as JARA (hunter) during Krishna` s period. This Jara by mistake injures Lord Krishna big finger on leg by an arrow. Jara realising his mistake pleads lord to forgive. But Lord asks him to take a boon. Accordingly the hunter asks Lord to grant him heavens with the body. So was given. King Dasaratha killed a saints son by mistake. The curse was given that King should suffer the seperation of his (king) son and die. So it happened.The prakuthi is designed in such a manner, that one reaps what he sowed.But by the grace of Guru or Lord things can change to pleasantness. Again there are many examples B.Sathyanarayan------------------------- Dear Sadakas,This is an ancient question. Narendra asked this question to Gurudev Sri Ramakrishna.Narendra realised God. A car is able to move because it gets motive force from the engine.A driver directs the carWithout the driver the car will not move. Human body is like a car. we are able to move because there is vital force within us. He is the driver.Where from the Vital force has come.When this Vital force leaves man, we call it a dead body.Who has been instrumental in activating this vital force?Where is that force ? Who has given the body this vital force ?How I am able to see, speak, breathe ?Can any one give this Vital force?The one who has given this body with Vital force is God.Think of the human body, the various faculties, memory, affectionate heart and great qualities.Look at the myriad of creation in the universe !Who made the rose ?Can I collect honey from the flowers ?A dog gets the scent of the culprit and locates him but we intelligent beings unable to do so.We cannot see him with our physical eyes.We must have the eyes like the one Lord had given to Sanjaya.Arjuna was a great friend of Krishna but he never believed he is the Lord. He asked him show his swaroopa. When he showed him, Arjuna was afraidand requested to return to normal form.Those who have seen Lord get a great awakening but they cannot pass ontheir experience to others. His Grace is the only way.Read scripture with faith. Faith comes from associating with devotees.Devotees can be located by thier calm and quite nature and sparkling and penetrating eyes.Mother Jasoda saw the whole universe in the mouth of baby Krishna. We have to earn the qualifications to have his vision.With our limited scale of vision we want to fathom the infinite !Dasan,Sridharan,------------------------- Krishna, Ram ,Allah, Jesus, Etc are different characters forthe same script. Important is that the essence of Spirituality is torealise yourself.Like there is always a demo you get when you purchase some game or software , similarly these characters are demo of the behaviour youshould inculcate . Crisp essence of Gita is Selfless action ....andhow to become selfless? is by leaving your results to god and by notcaring about them even if they are good.Every successful man sets his goal but doesnt keep thinking his goalin a pleasing way , such that as if how pleasing it will be if hegets good or how sorrowful if he gets bad . he seperates himself from the fruit. He enjoys the action thats all .But you can still remember lord krishna as a character because he isso pleasing and divine that has no explaination and really a symbolof perfectness. Like Eklavya who kept a symbol of his ideal drona charya in front of him and practised dhanur vidya and reachedperfection, similarly you can keep remembering this true and divineroop of the almighty and reach that kind of perfection .As you think.. so you become. Finally i will say that Regular reading of gita can make youfeel divine ...... and really divine.love you allSauravBangalore------------------------- -- In , mallik kotamarti <mkotamarti wrote:>> Jai Guru Datta!> Om Namah Shivay!> > People that want proof are acually crying for help to show them that there is in fact a higher meaning to life, but not quite the way we usually think.> > I, for one, am thankful for this question because it directly asks us to remember how we got here.> > Faith will come only after dislodging the disbelief from clutches of the misunderstood role & progress of Science in our (human) evolution. At the turn of century, Time magazine's top five unanswered questions included " Consciousness " . > > It really doesnt take that long to turn skepticism into a productive inquiry once the " would be " seeker is ready - which doesnt happen until and unless their karmic equity resurfaces them from the depths of ego.> > What intrigued me personally was " coming across a gifted person " who could see past, present & the future to the extent I was speechless. As the veil of modern science is lifted, I began to wonder how much more there is with respect to such subtle principle that defies logic.> > Journey is harder, longer & painful for the skeptics that take the path of " I believe when I see it " , but the journey will reach the awakening point from where there is no return.> > Guru deploys " miracles " to keep his followers on track. Guru is the all pervading Guru principle of illumination.> > Until karmic debt is paid for and the person is really ready, the journey doesnt begin in the sense that encounters with gifted people or Guru or miracles do not happen.> > So is there a point to try & convince someone else who is not ready? > > but we can be there for them through their miseries which they too will have from time to time; it is only when they are in need of explanation for their personal grief and they ask for it, we can offer it; until then, we can only empathize. > > But then if the people we talk of are " us folks " only, our own " internal need " will direct our inner journey - with sufficient purushardha, we will come across " the necessary " experiences to stay on track and reach our goal.> > Sree Guru Datta!> ShivMallik> > ODatta wrote:> Dear Sir,> I am a great follower of Swami Ji,> I live in Frankfurt - Germany. My friends (Indians and Germans) here keep asking me " what is the proof that there is a GOD " . How can one prove > to someone that he should start believing in our allmighty GOD. I am talking> about well read people and they also need some kind of solid proofs.> I am sure you will be able to supply me with the right kind of answers.> With best regards> Yours sincerely> Om Sen Datta------------------------- Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand. 6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations 7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting,> if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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