When Lord Kriishna says, I am Lord Shiva

[Guest guest]

Namaste to all,

 

If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna

makes, " I am Lord Shiva. "

 

The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must

admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of

shivalinga.

 

I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with

recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and

devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt

a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.

 

I would welcome any comments.

 

Om Namah Shivaya

 

Blessings to all, Steve

 

Gita Talk Guidelines

 

FROM THE MODERATOR

 

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

 

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita

shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding

of Gitaji.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate

the response

3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.

4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line

maximum, if possible).

5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.

6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations

7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address

etc.

8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the

message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear

or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners,

non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and

provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Radhe Krishna!

There is no difference between Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna. You can worship any God because all forms of God are the manifestation of the formless Absolute Indivisible God called " Brahman " . To whichever God, your mind gets attracted, you can worship Him/Her. The ardent devotion with which you are worshipping is more important. If one looks at the Hindu scriptures, one can hear about Lord Shiva being a devotee of Lord Vishnu (the same as Lord Krishna) and meditating on Him, and vice versa also. So dont worry about who is better out of the two, as both are the same.

 

 

Yours

K.V. Gopalakrishna

 

 

On Nov 19, 2007 7:31 AM, sjackson07513 <sjackson07513 wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste to all,If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, " I am Lord Shiva. " The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.I would welcome any comments.Om Namah ShivayaBlessings to all, Steve-------------------------Gita Talk Guidelines

FROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).

5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram

[Guest guest]

Go with what works.

That is why BG has given so many ways to relate and connect to God.

All names and forms are only means (making it easier for one to connect

based on their specific preferences). The ultimate is beyond names and

forms.

 

 

KST

 

 

sjackson07513 <sjackson07513

 

Sun, 18 Nov 2007 9:01 pm

When Lord Kriishna says, "I am Lord Shiva"

 

 

Namaste to all,

If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, "I am Lord Shiva."

The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.

I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.

I would welcome any comments.

Om Namah Shivaya

Blessings to all, Steve

 

Gita Talk Guidelines

FROM THE MODERATOR

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response

3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.

4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).

5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.

6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations

7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.

8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

Lord says in BG chapter 10 verse 23 - Rudraanaam shankaraa...

Arjun confirms it in BG chapter 11 verse 15 - pashyami... kamalasanastham (Brhma) ... isham (Shiva)...

Humble opinion:

If you like to pray Shiva stick to Him. Shiva prays Rama and Rama prays Shiva...!!! It is difficult to understand but praying to Shiva or Vishnu is one and the same...!!! You are praying to the exact same energy but at the names and forms level they both look different. Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh (Shiva) are 3 aspects of the same energy - creating, sustaining and destructive aspect. In other words, satva, rajas and tamas. Yet in another way of explaining it - proton (positive), neutron (nutral) and electron (negative) of AN ATOM. Atoms exist outside and within us. When our concentration is this atomic no Brahma, Vishnu or Mahesh remains - it is understood that it is one and the same. I believe, that is the message Lord is trying to convey when He says that He is Brahma and Shiva.. If you read any scripture focused on Shiva, they would claim Shiva to be the Supreme. How can you separate yourself from your energy? Are you and your energy separate? No. So how can one separate Atom and its characteristics? If we are focusing on characteristics then we are focusing only at on aspect of completeness, i.e, either creation or sustenance or destruction, and not the complete whole!

Hope this helps...

humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

On 11/18/07, sjackson07513 <sjackson07513 wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste to all,If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, " I am Lord Shiva. " The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.I would welcome any comments.Om Namah ShivayaBlessings to all, Steve-------------------------Gita Talk Guidelines

FROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).

5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram

[Guest guest]

Please note that: Sri Krishna takes the Supreme Form of Viraat

Purusha and says that " I am Vishnu " and " I am Shiva "

 

We need to get the clear understanding of the SagunaBrahman

understood as Siva or Para Shiva or in Linga swaroopa is also

Narayana or Mahavishnu and also Parashakthi or Durga or MahaKaali

which is also ParaBrahmam for Smarthas. This takes the form of

Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva for various activites.[same name - do not get

confused].

Please read the following article I prepared for a talk to another

group. This is what is explained in Gita. We need to teach this

message clearly to all Hindus when we organize classes.

Bala N. Aiyer.

---

Concepts of God in Hindu Dharma.

Now we need to consider and think about some of the common questions

that arise in the minds of our people. Is the God that every one

prays are one and the same or are they different? If all of them are

one and the same, then why do we have different types of temples or

various sanctums in the same temple? If they are all different, then

how can we say that all Hindus are the same following the same faith?

Now, how did this faith in God first started and how did this

develop? Now there is the next big question. If all of us pray to the

same God and all Gods are the same, then what is wrong if one changes

and converts to another religious faith?

 

From ancient times, both believers and non-believers had several

questions about Hindu faith. These questions often occur in the young

minds. As already noted, we need to find the answers. First, who is

or what is God? In Hindu Dharma what is our concept of God or how do

we understand God. Is there only one God? Are there many different

gods, or are they different forms and different path? How do you

explain the conflicts in the idea? Then, there are little Village

gods, Devathas, Angels and spirits as well as some leaders who are

worshipped by some Hindus. Are they equal to or same as the Supreme

God that we worship?

 

In most Western Religious faiths and beliefs, the true concept of God

remains largely unexplained, who is believed by them to be in a

masculine form, all powerful, lives in heaven, created the worlds and

all life forms and created man in his own form. Then there are

subservient angels, satan, devils, and messengers of God who come to

earth as His Messiahs.

 

There are more elaborate explanations and descriptions of the forms

and manifestations of the Divine supreme in Hindu Dharma, in our

traditions and religious books. We believe that God exists everywhere

in the universe and manifests in many forms on many occasions. God is

described as Divine Truth which is only one and that the sages call

this One Truth by different names. " Ekam Sat Vipra Bahudha Vadanthi " .

God is explained as the matter and energy that created the entire

universe and all the matters and life forms and is inside us and

outside us everywhere. He is the one who created all these worlds,

maintains them and dissolve them when the time comes and also in

addition has unlimited types of divine play and grace for us.

 

God is explained as existing as the supreme energy or force and the

matter everywhere that created all the universe of suns, stars and

planets and all the beings there-in including the human race. The

Supreme is seen as the electromagnetic particles or waves of the

lights that come from the sun and the stars. God is that sound or

vibration which exists in the space. When the stars and planets

revolve in the space that creates this vibration, He exists in the

Pranava Sound of Om. Even though we use the pronoun " He " , that also

represents She or It, according to the path we follow. This grand

incomprehensible form of the supreme Truth is Paramathma or the grand

soul is also addressed as Parabrahman by followers of Smartha

Sampradhaya of Vedic Traditions. This same Supreme force is addressed

as Parasiva or Parameswara by the Saiva sampradhaya followers and Sri

Narayana or Mahavishnu by the Vaishnava Sampradhaya followers and

Parasakthi or Kaali by the Sakthas. This Supreme is formless or

beyond our comprehension and is explained as the One Truth that is

Nirguna Brahman, Nishkala Siva and Savisesha Brahman for all these

sects.

 

This form is difficult to comprehend or to worship by the common

Hindu Devotees. Here He exists and understood as the great form of

Viraat Purusha that spans the entire space of universes in His

Immanent and Transcendental form of Viswaroopa. As a blessing to all

the Hindus, and also to perform the activities of creation,

protection, dissolution, playing various other roles and for showing

His grace, the Paramatma comes to us in the transcendental form as

Saguna Brahmam. He takes the several manifestations and incarnations.

Here, the names of the manifestations may sound similar; we need to

remember that these are the manifestations of the Saguna Brahmam with

similar names and should not get confused.

 

In this we have Brahma, Vishnu and Siva as creator, protector and

dissolver and their consorts Saraswathi, Lakshmi and Durga for

knowledge, wealth and power and we have Ganesha and Subrahmanya. Then

we recognize many incarnations and forms of manifestations of the

Supreme God that come in every age that all Hindus worship in several

Temples.

 

..'In additions to these forms that all Hindus worship as God, there

are also several forms of angels and Celestial powers called Devathas

that exists and are included for worship in our rituals. Often they

perform various duties and work to protect individuals and

surrounding areas, buildings and villages, and work like the

government employees under a ruler. Some of them are good to the

society and do good things to everyone and some are said to be bad

ones, angry ones that may cause destruction or calamities. These are

the Devathas that villagers worship in the Tamasika way of ignorance,

to ward off miseries or out of fear and also in the ritualistic Vedic

practice in the form of worship of the natural forces and planets. In

many world faiths, these Devathas are considered as their only God,

leading to the violent exclusion of all other faiths in the Supreme.

Most Hindus who worship these angels and Devathas also understand and

accept the many manifestations of the Supreme Paramatma.

 

According to the traditions and Cultural practices of Hindu Dharma, a

Guru or Acharya is accepted as a personal guide, leader and teacher

who has received the spiritual knowledge of Divine Truth and as such

is considered worthy of our prayers and worship. It is always

recommended that one receive the Divine truth and teachings only from

such an enlightened Guru who only can show us the proper path and

guide us for spiritual knowledge. We are able to understand Supreme

Truth and our Dharma through them.

 

We have been blessed by the manifestations of several such Acharyas

at different times to guide us and teach us the proper meaning of the

religious texts and our philosophy. Many times the explanations had

variations to suite the variations in our Hindu communities of

different time periods and situations. But, we must understand that

the ultimate goal we need to reach in spiritual realization of Hindu

Dharma teachings is one and the same with the variations only in the

path. In these teachings, it makes no sense to fight among our selves

and say that one path is superior or other is inferior. We must

accept that each one path is suitable or acceptable to one or the

other Hindu and all are similar. We must teach this truth to all

Hindus to learn and encourage everyone to live in peace with unity

among all Hindus. This is the message that our organizations,

foundations, Gurus, Acharyas and Temples should teach and tell all

their members and followers.

 

In our community and around us, there are many individuals who do not

have proper spiritual insight in proper paths of Hindu Dharma or have

not understood our philosophy. There are many who are agnostic and

does not want to think of a superior Divine Force as God. Then there

are those who are atheists who deny the existence of a Supreme Force

and refuse to understand that or just have a personal dislike for the

way it is being practiced. There are few groups which worship only a

form of a subordinate Devatha or an Angel as their " Only God " and

deny all other forms. Some even proclaim that their path is the only

right way and sometimes agitate and try to attack and destroy other

groups. It is essential to teach the divine message to all of them to

make them understand the Hindu Dharma as a spiritual way of life and

make them join us in our paths of Hindu Dharma. This way, we can

create a glorious future for all of us and for our traditions.

---

[Guest guest]

This also brings out an interesting thing about

the heirarchy which exists in the divine world.

brahma, Vishnu, Param Shiva all are part and parcel of

the same energy, however there is a heirarchy which

exists between the three and the superior force is

Maha Vishnu as is reinstated in many scriptures.

However in spite of a heirarchy and inspite of the

fact that the lord can do any thing on his own, he

respects the order and the rule which had been

established and depends on the other deities for

getting favours in their respective departments.

Another explanation for this would be like this, since

lord Krishna was in Earth leaving his abode at

heavens, he must have been setting examples for the

mortals in earth and all other worlds to respect and

follow the order.

 

To answer the question where he says he is Lord

Shiva, there is another part of the Gita where he

explains that he is indeed the various forms of

energies and in fact everything which exists in the

universe, which means to say that everything which is

known and unknown in this universe are different

manifestations of that sole energy, including the

divine heirarchy in the heavens.

 

This is my humble inference. Please feel free to

correct my anywhere.

 

Regards,

Renju.

-----------

 

Jai Guru Datta!

Om NamhShivay!

 

In addition to being a Self Realized master, Lord Krishna is also purnavataar

{complete & perfect manifestation} of ParaBrahm {the Absolute} and as such He is

every thing and every one that is considered the best in creation - in this

context Lord Krishna says He is Shiva {among Rudras}.

 

On a more general note, a Self realized soul has realized with in itself all

forms of divinity including Lord Vishnu, Lord Shiva, Lord Brahma and so on

because a realized soul is the TRUTH itself which is the same and not different

from the best Dharma manifestations i.e Vishnu, Shiva & Brahma.

 

Different Deities appeal to different people and it does help to attach to the

one you like because the puranic stories/glory pertaining to that deity contain

the complete sanatan dharma which when meditated carefully leads to Realization.

 

There are many that are drawn to Krishna/Vishnu and then there are so many that

are drawn to Lord Shiva while even so many are drawn to Amba/Ganesh.

 

True Realization integrates all Deities {all beliefs/religions} into one single

TRUTH, but a comfortable ladder is necessary to reach the top; once on top

{Realized}, ladder becomes irrelevant.

 

By attaching to Deity of your liking, the journey is that much more comfortable

and rest assured the deity will shower grace, protect you and guide you.

 

Lord Shiv is known as " easy to please " and He is also known to be sympathetic

even to the demons; his icon as " Lord of Yoga " is very significant.

 

Lord Vishnu is known to protect His devotees, up hold fairness in the creation

and his icon of " clever & heroic " is very significant.

 

In reality, " Shivaya Vishnurupaya, Vishnave Shivarupaya " meas " Shiva is Vishnu's

form and Vishnu is Shiva's form " - there is no difference between the two; both

are sides of the same coin.

 

It is wonderful that you have found your devotion with the Lord whatever may be

the form.

 

Sree Guru Datta!

ShivMallik

 

 

--- Manjula Patel <manjumaa wrote:

 

> Loving Divine,

> Pranam.

> Lord says in BG chapter 10 verse 23 - Rudraanaam

> shankaraa...

> Arjun confirms it in BG chapter 11 verse 15 -

> pashyami... kamalasanastham

> (Brhma) ... isham (Shiva)...

> Humble opinion:

> If you like to pray Shiva stick to Him. Shiva prays

> Rama and Rama prays

> Shiva...!!! It is difficult to understand but

> praying to Shiva or Vishnu is

> one and the same...!!! You are praying to the exact

> same energy but at the

> names and forms level they both look different.

> Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh

> (Shiva) are 3 aspects of the same energy - creating,

> sustaining and

> destructive aspect. In other words, satva, rajas

> and tamas. Yet in another

> way of explaining it - proton (positive), neutron

> (nutral) and electron

> (negative) of AN ATOM. Atoms exist outside and

> within us. When our

> concentration is this atomic no Brahma, Vishnu or

> Mahesh remains - it is

> understood that it is one and the same. I believe,

> that is the message Lord

> is trying to convey when He says that He is Brahma

> and Shiva.. If you read

> any scripture focused on Shiva, they would claim

> Shiva to be the Supreme.

> How can you separate yourself from your energy? Are

> you and your energy

> separate? No. So how can one separate Atom and its

> characteristics? If we

> are focusing on characteristics then we are focusing

> only at on aspect of

> completeness, i.e, either creation or sustenance or

> destruction, and not the

> complete whole!

> Hope this helps...

> humble regards,

> always at Thy Divine Feet

>

>

> On 11/18/07, sjackson07513 <sjackson07513

> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste to all,

> >

> > If anyone would like to please elaborate on the

> statement Lord Krishna

> > makes, " I am Lord Shiva. "

> >

> > The reason I am interested is that as my practice

> is developing I must

> > admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva

> including worship of

> > shivalinga.

> >

> > I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after

> beginning now with

> > recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing

> sense of peace and

> > devotion and see changes in myself. I have also

> from the beginning felt

> > a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.

> >

> > I would welcome any comments.

> >

> > Om Namah Shivaya

> >

> > Blessings to all, Steve

> >

>

-------------------------

> > Gita Talk Guidelines

> >

> > FROM THE MODERATOR

> >

> > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk

> discussions.

> >

> > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify

> their doubts related to

> > Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they

> must further clarify the

> > understanding of Gitaji.

> > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other

> scriptures to

> > substantiate the response

> > 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions,

> beliefs etc.

> > 4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the

> point. (Up to twenty line

> > maximum, if possible).

> > 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.

> > 6. Please do not include links to other sites or

> other organizations

> > 7. Please do not include your personal information

> such as phone number,

> > address etc.

> > 8. Kindly do not address the response to a

> particular individual, since

> > the message is going to the entire group.

> > 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses

> will be posted.

> > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the

> posting, if content is

> > unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the

> group.

> > 11. Please respond taking into consideration

> novices, youth, westerners,

> > non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on

> only sanskrit words, and

> > provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed

> wherever possible.

> >

> > MODERATOR

> > Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

How interesting, Aum, God is one. Someone chose to give name and human physical form and regalia to different figures and called them dieties. People became attached to these figures. Did Lord Purushotam Ram or Yogeshwar Shri Krishan ever pray to the dieties. There are always mention of them performing Yajanas.

How did we ever get misguided into these human forms of the Almighty who has no begining, no end; who is Omnipresent, yet imprisoned in the human body that is destructible and meagerly is dot in the span of the the existence of this universe???

Where did we all go wrong?

How fascinating!!! If there were only one way to address Him, this thought of who is better will not arise. The comparison only occurs if there are two or more of ?same. So, realise AUM as one and pray to that Omnipresent. Love

Yash

-----------

There is no name/form imprinted on the supreme: Beyond names and forms.

Let us not forget , in BG10 and otehr chapters, we see

I am shamkara among rudrAs (among 11 rudras)

I am viSHNu among AdityAs (among 12 sons of aditi)

I am prahlAda among sons of diti.

I am ananta among snakes

I am ashvatta among trees

I am logic of argumant

I am the winning combination in lottery (paraphrased)

I am ocean among body of waters

I am wetness of water

I am kaama that is sanctioned by dharma

I am the logic of argument

I am om of all uttered sounds

I am arjuna among pAnDavAs

I am vyAsa among thinkers

I am ushana among poets

I am himalayas among immovables

I am meru among peaks

Whatever is considered as great I AM THAT

 

Forget that Shiva is better than Vishnu, or vice versa conflicts.

Pick and choose whatever you want!

 

 

K.S. tAtAchAr

 

----------- Shiva Roopaya Vishnave- Vishnu Roopaya Shivaye says Vedic script.

Vishnu- The sustanence energy

Shiva- Distruction Energy

Since Lord Vishnu is in Shiva the Kala Chakra exists. Other wise only distruction and end Suniya (nothing)

B.Sathyanarayan

-----------

Yes indeed the Lord says that he is Shiva too.He is the Supreme God.

s.seshadri

 

-----------

Hari Om

Om Namah Shivaya,

 

As our Purana,Vedas or other mythology books states that everything and anything in this 'Vishwa'

had been from the nadaa of 'OM', from this Bhrama,Vishnu Shiv created.

As far as Lord Krishan, is called to be avatar of Lord Vishnu.

and I think to kill Kansa other evils on the earth Lord Krishan requires the shakti,

that shakti is nothing but "SHIV", therefore the jap of Om Namah Shiaya is the complete mantra of

includes Shiv Shkati i.e.Mata Ambaji and Om means that Vishwa shakti that can not be see but asthiva can be feel like Air can't see but we feel.

Om shree Ganeshya Namaha.

vishwas shinde

-----------

Jai Shree Ram,

The pyramid of divine hierarchy emanates from a BINDU (a dot). The

inter-containing element (TATVA) is same and un-altered in all form

of divine manifestations. Be it Lord Krishna, Lord Shiva, Shri Lakshmi

or Shri Gouri the same tatva prevails. Refer to Chapter 10, (Vibhuti

Yog) where the Lord has said "I am EVERYTHING EVERYONE". The

flexibility propounded in the Vaidic Science allows a devotee to

worship whichever VIGRAHA (manifestation) he or she likes. The

devotee of Lord Krishna would be called a VAISHNAV, of Lord Shiva a

SHAIVA, of the Supreme Deity a SHAAKT and so on so forth. These may be

called as different pathways to reach the SINGULAR destination. The

eternal bliss (Bhakti Ras) experienced by devotees is the same in all

cases. Salvation or Attainment lead the Devotee of Shiva to the same

pool where followers of Lord Krishna reach.

Beams of Light from different sources converge inseparably into ONE

and once there, nothing matters anymore.

With Kind Regards,

Sushil K Jalan

 

-----------

BR>"K.V Gopalakrishna" <gopalakrishna.kv wrote: Radhe Krishna! There is no difference between Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna. You can worship any God because all forms of God are the manifestation of the formless Absolute

Indivisible God called "Brahman". To whichever God, your mind gets attracted, you can worship Him/Her. The ardent devotion with which you are worshipping is more important. If one looks at the Hindu scriptures, one can hear about Lord Shiva being a devotee of Lord Vishnu (the same as Lord Krishna) and meditating on Him, and vice versa also. So dont worry about who is better out of the two, as both are the same. Yours K.V. Gopalakrishna On Nov 19, 2007 7:31 AM, sjackson07513 <sjackson07513 > wrote: Namaste to all,If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, "I am Lord

Shiva."The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.I would welcome any comments.Om Namah ShivayaBlessings to all, Steve-------------------------Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other

scriptures to substantiate the response3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

How could it be wrong?

 

 

In a message dated 11/22/07 7:39:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, vermamd6 writes:

 

How interesting, Aum, God is one. Someone chose to give name and human physical form and regalia to different figures and called them dieties. People became attached to these figures. Did Lord Purushotam Ram or Yogeshwar Shri Krishan ever pray to the dieties. There are always mention of them performing Yajanas. How did we ever get misguided into these human forms of the Almighty who has no begining, no end; who is Omnipresent, yet imprisoned in the human body that is destructible and meagerly is dot in the span of the the existence of this universe??? Where did we all go wrong?

[Guest guest]

Yes, He is only ONE & THE SAME. HE is second to none, the message of GITA through LORD KR'SHNA is HE is ONE! ONE! Only ONE! then how can the LORD SHIVA be other than HIM. It's our (human beings) thinking and disillusioned sight that we see them differently and feel diferently, how can our SHARDHA be firmif we see them differently and percieve them the same way.Let's understand and be determined that HE IS ONE and ONLY ONE. LORD KRISHNA,SHIVA, RAMA are ONE and the same ULTIMATE REALITY.

 

 

From: manjumaaDate: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:30:38 -0500Re: When Lord Kriishna says, "I am Lord Shiva"

 

 

 

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

Lord says in BG chapter 10 verse 23 - Rudraanaam shankaraa...

Arjun confirms it in BG chapter 11 verse 15 - pashyami... kamalasanastham (Brhma) ... isham (Shiva)...

Humble opinion:

If you like to pray Shiva stick to Him. Shiva prays Rama and Rama prays Shiva...!!! It is difficult to understand but praying to Shiva or Vishnu is one and the same...!!! You are praying to the exact same energy but at the names and forms level they both look different. Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh (Shiva) are 3 aspects of the same energy - creating, sustaining and destructive aspect. In other words, satva, rajas and tamas. Yet in another way of explaining it - proton (positive), neutron (nutral) and electron (negative) of AN ATOM. Atoms exist outside and within us. When our concentration is this atomic no Brahma, Vishnu or Mahesh remains - it is understood that it is one and the same. I believe, that is the message Lord is trying to convey when He says that He is Brahma and Shiva.. If you read any scripture focused on Shiva, they would claim Shiva to be the Supreme. How can you separate yourself from your energy? Are you and your energy separate? No. So how can one separate Atom and its characteristics? If we are focusing on characteristics then we are focusing only at on aspect of completeness, i.e, either creation or sustenance or destruction, and not the complete whole!

Hope this helps...

humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

On 11/18/07, sjackson07513 <sjackson07513 > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Namaste to all,If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, "I am Lord Shiva."The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.I would welcome any comments.Om Namah ShivayaBlessings to all, Steve-------------------------Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram

[Guest guest]

Yes Dear Sadhak.

 

Understand the ULTIMATE REALITY that a drop is part of ocean, a point is part & parcel of

Circumference. All these Gods and Godesses are the emblem of ALMIGHTY, we may call them

according to human conception. Every one has start with his own deity to attain the ultimate reality where

all notion merge to percieve ONE, the same as Tulsidas viewed the image of Lort Rama in Brandvan in the Temple of Lord Krishana,. We all have to attain the same abode in HIS LOTUS FEET. Hari Motwani

 

 

 

From: habmedsDate: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:51:31 +0000RE: When Lord Kriishna says, "I am Lord Shiva"

 

 

 

Yes, He is only ONE & THE SAME. HE is second to none, the message of GITA through LORD KR'SHNA is HE is ONE! ONE! Only ONE! then how can the LORD SHIVA be other than HIM. It's our (human beings) thinking and disillusioned sight that we see them differently and feel diferently, how can our SHARDHA be firmif we see them differently and percieve them the same way.Let's understand and be determined that HE IS ONE and ONLY ONE. LORD KRISHNA,SHIVA, RAMA are ONE and the same ULTIMATE REALITY.

 

 

From: manjumaa Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:30:38 -0500Re: When Lord Kriishna says, "I am Lord Shiva"

 

 

 

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

Lord says in BG chapter 10 verse 23 - Rudraanaam shankaraa...

Arjun confirms it in BG chapter 11 verse 15 - pashyami... kamalasanastham (Brhma) ... isham (Shiva)...

Humble opinion:

If you like to pray Shiva stick to Him. Shiva prays Rama and Rama prays Shiva...!!! It is difficult to understand but praying to Shiva or Vishnu is one and the same...!!! You are praying to the exact same energy but at the names and forms level they both look different. Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh (Shiva) are 3 aspects of the same energy - creating, sustaining and destructive aspect. In other words, satva, rajas and tamas. Yet in another way of explaining it - proton (positive), neutron (nutral) and electron (negative) of AN ATOM. Atoms exist outside and within us. When our concentration is this atomic no Brahma, Vishnu or Mahesh remains - it is understood that it is one and the same. I believe, that is the message Lord is trying to convey when He says that He is Brahma and Shiva.. If you read any scripture focused on Shiva, they would claim Shiva to be the Supreme. How can you separate yourself from your energy? Are you and your energy separate? No. So how can one separate Atom and its characteristics? If we are focusing on characteristics then we are focusing only at on aspect of completeness, i.e, either creation or sustenance or destruction, and not the complete whole!

Hope this helps...

humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

On 11/18/07, sjackson07513 <sjackson07513 > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Namaste to all,If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, "I am Lord Shiva."The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.I would welcome any comments.Om Namah ShivayaBlessings to all, Steve-------------------------Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible). 5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram

Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Connect now!

[Guest guest]

A question response to a question is not an answer but a refusal to respond. Please do respond.Classyoga wrote: How could it be wrong? In a message dated 11/22/07 7:39:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, vermamd6 writes: How interesting, Aum, God is one. Someone chose to give name and

human physical form and regalia to different figures and called them dieties. People became attached to these figures. Did Lord Purushotam Ram or Yogeshwar Shri Krishan ever pray to the dieties. There are always mention of them performing Yajanas. How did we ever get misguided into these human forms of the Almighty who has no begining, no end; who is Omnipresent, yet imprisoned in the human body that is destructible and meagerly is dot in the span of the the existence of this universe??? Where did we all go wrong?

Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Mail. See how.

[Guest guest]

This is my humble opinion. Do not worry much about the names of the GOD. Whatever you get the strong feeling towards(whichever name it may be), just follow that faith and devotion. Do not worry about the output. Just be steady in your hope and faith. If after sometime, let us say, as per your question, if you get feeling towards some other God, even that is ok. Then start your feelings and faith towards that. DO not worry about any other Gods/Names other than what you are praying about..its all in the mind. Once our faith becomes completely steady in whatever u believe in, then you will realize that all paths/all prayers to all gods/all beliefs/all faith merge in the one and only path

that leas to that ULTIMATE which is the source of everything, which you cannot give particular name to, which you cannot express in one since particular form but that which you feel is EVERYTHING.

 

Keep doing and keep praying whatever you feel at that point of time and in time, you will understand that ULTIMATE/DIVINITY by yourself.

 

Bharathi

-----

Radhe Krishna!

 

Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are the manifestations of the Supreme Brahman, no doubt. When Veda Vyasa has himself written all the 18 Puranas, why should he talk high about Shiva in Shiva Purana, about Vishnu in Bhagavatam, and about Devi in Devi Purana? It is only for the Bhaktas to enhance their devotion to that particular God whom they are praying to, and increase their faith in Him. It is not because one God is superior to other. When the creation of the Universe occurs, Lord Brahma who is also a manifestation of the Supreme person, he will give all importance to Brahma, and when the sustenance of the universe is concerned, the importance will be to Vishnu, and when Shakti is involved, the importance will be to Devi (as given in Soundarya Lahari, the very first sloka) that even Lord Shiva will not be able to move even one limb without the help of Shakti. It is only peoples' ignorance that makes the differentiation.

Regards

K.V. Gopalakrishna

-----

On 11/18/07, sjackson07513 <sjackson07513@ > wrote:

 

 

 

 

Namaste to all,If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, "I am Lord Shiva."The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and

devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.I would welcome any comments.Om Namah ShivayaBlessings to all, Steve

[Guest guest]

II SHRI HARI II

 

Lord Krishna said in Vibhuti Yog of Shrimad

Bhagwat that in Vaihnavas, HE is the Param Vaishnav SHIV.

 

In Shri Shiv Chalisa the following verses

(vakya) are written:

 

“Hari Har ek (one) roop gunsheela

Karat Swami Sewak ki leela

Rahte dono poojat pujwavat

Pooja paddati sabni seekhavat.

 

Maruti (Shri hanuman ji) ban sewa keeni

Rameshwar (Ishawar of Sri Ram) ban sewa

leeni “

 

In Skand Puran, Shri Vishnu categorically

states that HE and SHIV both are ONE and akatya

(indivisible). Whosoever will make

difference between them shall go to Rorak Narak (a type of Hell).

In Shiv Maha Puran, Lord SHIV

categorically states that HE and Shri Vishnu are ONE and whosoever

will make differentiate between them shall

not get rebirth as manushya.

 

Therefore, Lord Krishna reveals a param

staya about HIS being SHIVA and SHIVA being KRISHNA.

 

In Bhakti Yog of Vedas, ananya bhakti is emphasised

i.e. worship of ONE roop (vigraha or figure) of GOD.

Therefore, If you worship Lord SHIV and

you also love Lord Krishna, you can recite Shri Krishna names also

But keeping the roop of Lord SHIV in the

mind.

 

This way you can purify yourself and

attain the All Mighty GOD as and when your bhakti attains parikashtha

(ultimate limit) and you get the blessing

of a Sat Guru.

 

II SHIV OM

II

 

Shubh Kamna Sahit,

RAJINDER MOHAN VOHRA

----

Lord is one and is intelligence of all. God cannot be reached by merely worldly materials as that of your mind, your intelligence, it is because of your complete faith in the god, that his mere blessing would give you his divinity. Worldly material cannot grasp God, He is above of all those.

Very first lesson that if you have hate with any community, any living being it is the same as you are having hate with param-atma.

Duty is assigned in dharma-shastra as which community has to do what work, but by merely hating a community or considering your community as above of other makes you no where . look for “vasudev sarvam”- (look god in everyone) .

Do’s and don’t are being very well defined in dharma shastra, you have example of religious saints and lord Ram in front of you as have to behave live life like. do your duty according to your varna, and please do not harm anyone, that does not mean you have to support the ones who are doing wrong deeds. It is person who is doing wrong deeds, and have to be punished for that, after all dharm is above all. It is god who has taken all the birth in the universe whether you or me, and have been told to act according to dharma-shastra. Also please note at the time of maha-pralaya, all atma would be merged in god itself, of which the whole universe had come up from.

ONE VERY IMPORTANT SAYING “PLEASE DEVOTE YOURSELF TO THE LORD AND ASK HIM TO LEAD YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH, “, AS IT IS SAID TILL THE PERSON USES HIS INTELLIGENCE , GOD NEVER INTERFERES, BUT ONCE WHEN HE BECOMES COMPLETE DEVOTEE, IT IS HIS BLESSINGS WHICH COMES INTO FORCE.

As regard lord Krishna stating “I being lord shiva” it is stated that the paramatma is the sole of all, out atma is also a part of paramatma.

It is one single paramatma which has taken shape of many.

Rgds

Ram ram

Manish Pugalia

 

--

It may be relevant here>>>

BHAGVADA GEETA

TEXT 7/22

sa taya sraddhaya yuktas

tasyaradhanam ihate

labhate ca tatah kaman

mayaiva vihitan hi tan

 

TRANSLATION

Endowed with such a faith, he seeks favors of a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone.

PURPORT

The demigods cannot award benedictions to the devotees without the permission of the Supreme Lord. The living entity may forget that everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, but the demigods do not forget. So the worship of demigods and achievement of desired results are not due to the demigods but to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by arrangement. The less intelligent living entity does not know this, and therefore he foolishly goes to the demigods for some benefit. But the pure devotee, when in need of something, prays only to the Supreme Lord. Asking for material benefit, however, is not a sign of a pure devotee. A living entity goes to the demigods usually because he is mad to fulfill his lust. This happens when something undue is desired by the living entity, and the Lord Himself does not fulfill the desire. In the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said that one who worships the Supreme Lord and at the same time desires material enjoyment is contradictory in his desires. Devotional service of the Supreme Lord and the worship of a demigod cannot be on the same platform because worship of a demigod is material and devotional service to the Supreme Lord is completely spiritual.

For the living entity who desires to return to Godhead, material desires are impediments. A pure devotee of the Lord is therefore not awarded the material benefits desired by less intelligent living entities who prefer to worship demigods of the material world rather than engage in devotional service of the Supreme Lord.

 

TEXT 7/ 23

antavat tu phalam tesam

tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam

devan deva-yajo yanti

mad-bhakta yanti mam api

 

TRANSLATION

Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. PURPORT

 

Some commentators on the Gita say that one who worships a demigod can reach the Supreme Lord, but here it is clearly stated that the worshipers of demigods go to the different planetary systems where various demigods are situated, just as a worshiper of the sun achieves the sun or a worshiper of the demigod of the moon achieves the moon. Similarly, if anyone wants to worship a demigod like Indra, he can attain that particular god's planet. It is not that everyone, regardless of whatever demigod is worshiped, will reach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is denied here, for it is clearly stated that the worshipers of the demigods go to different planets in the material world, but the devotee of the Supreme Lord goes directly to the supreme planet of the Personality of Godhead. Here the point may be raised that if the demigods are different parts of the body of the Supreme Lord, then the same end should be achieved by worshiping them. However, worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent because they don't know to what part of the body food must be supplied. Some of them are so foolish that they claim that there are many parts and many ways to supply food. This isn't very sanguine. Can anyone supply food to the body through the ears or eyes? They do not know that these demigods are different parts of the universal body of the Supreme Lord, and in their ignorance they believe that each and every demigod is a separate God and a competitor of the Supreme Lord.

Not only are demigods parts of the Supreme Lord, but ordinary living entities are also. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that the brahmanas are the head of the Supreme Lord, the ksatriyas are the arms, etc., and that all serve different functions. Regardless of the situation, if one knows that both the demigods and himself are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, his knowledge is perfect. But if he does not understand this, he achieves different planets where the demigods reside. This is not the same destination the devotee reaches.

The results achieved by the demigods' benedictions are perishable because within this material world the planets, the demigods and their worshipers are all perishable. Therefore it is clearly stated in this verse that all results achieved by worshiping demigods are perishable, and therefore such worship is performed by the less intelligent living entity. Because the pure devotee engaged in Krsna consciousness in devotional service of the Supreme Lord achieves eternal blissful existence that is full of knowledge, his achievements and those of the common worshiper of the demigods are different. The Supreme Lord is unlimited; His favor is unlimited; His mercy is unlimited. Therefore the mercy of the Supreme Lord upon His pure devotees is unlimited.

HARE KRISHNA

P.K.Lamba

--

Dear Friends,

Namaskaar and pranaams !

If anyone thinks that he has reached the SUMMIT (pinnacle) of knowledge, he would be the most open-minded person, without trying to impose his knowledge. TRUE KNOWLEDGE IS INFINITE AND IS ISHWARA JNAANA (AND ONE WOULD NEVER DARE TO DECLARE THAT "I KNOW EVERYTHING"). Yes, of course, we can use our logic and positive exchanges to remove our own misunderstandings in order to move closer the the ONE AND ONLY TRUTH, THAT IS ISHWARA.

Quoting few verses from various scriptures here and there to prove one's point is not enough to establish the INTINITE NATURE OF TRUTH. One should always have checks and balances of his own spiritual journey's progress, and unless one feels deep inside "NETI... NETI.... (this is not... this is not.....)", one may not be on the right path to the goal. Depending on a particular dogma, one may not reach the TRUTH. IT IS A PROCESS OF INCESSANT (NON-STOP) INQUISITIVENESS, SEEKING, LEARNING, UNDERSTANDING, THROUGH EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION, DISCUSSIONS DEBATES, "REALISING AND EXPERIENCING THE TRUTH WITHIN ONE'S "SELF THAT HELPS ONE TO REACH THE "SAT-CHIT-ANANDA" (an eternal bliss by becoming the KNOWLEDGE ITSELF). VEDA VYAASA BHAGAVAN SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FOOL, WHO CODIFIED VEDAS, AND THEN TO HAVE AUTHORED BRAHMASUTRA DOWN TO PURANAS AND UPAPURANAS IN ORDER TO LEAD EVERY HUMAN BEING TO THE DIVINE THROUGH VARIOUS PATHS OF YOGA, ESPECIALLY "BHAKTHI YOGA" FOR THE ORDINARY HUMANS.

THE ULTIMATE TRUTH THAT IS ISHWARA IS PRESENTED "AT DIFFERENT LEVELS" TO THE HUMAN RACE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN GET CONNECTED TO THE "ALL-PERVASIVE (OMNI-PRESENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNI-SCIENT) DIVINE". To broadly put the classification, the following would give a guideline on these different presentation :

- BRAHM SANKALPA

- AUM - AS THE PRIMORDIAL SOUND SANKALPA

- PURUSHA SANKALPA

- AADI PARAASHAKTHI SANKALPA

- PURUSHA PRAKRITI SANKALPA

- THRIMURTI SANKALPA

- THRIMURTI WITH THEIR CONSORTS SANKALPA

- INCARNATION SANKALPA

- THROUGH DIFFERENT DEVATHAS ALL LEADING TO THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH - SANKALPA, EXPLAINED THROUGH VARIOUS PURANAS AND UPAPURANAS.

One who questions Veda Vyaasa Bhagavan's wisdom should be be trying to learn the whole scriptural wisdom, as their consciousness has been blocked half-way through and stuck there, refusing to move forward.

THE FIRST BOOK OF ALL MANKIND, RG VEDA SAYS :

TAD VISHNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)

There are more than 23 different Devathas discussed in RG VEDA and these Devathas are power centres in our our physiology guiding various (trillions of) activities within our body, helping us poor arrogant souls through the mysterious ways of CREATION/SUSTENANCE/DISSOLUTION to the ultimate GOAL OF ABODE OF ISHWARA.

With best regards,

VM (vavamenon)

----

 

On Behalf Of sjackson07513

Sunday, November 18, 2007

6:02 PM

 

When Lord

Kriishna says, " I am Lord Shiva "

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste

to all,

 

If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna

makes, " I am Lord Shiva. "

 

The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must

admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of

shivalinga.

 

I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with

recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and

devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt

a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.

 

I would welcome any comments.

 

Om Namah Shivaya

 

Blessings to all, Steve

-------------------------

Gita Talk Guidelines

 

FROM THE MODERATOR

 

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

 

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita

shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the

understanding of Gitaji.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate

the response

3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.

4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line

maximum, if possible).

5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.

6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations

7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number,

address etc.

8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the

message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear

or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners,

non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and

provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadaks,

In any ancient temple built by sacred saint and songs sung about that temple, one can definetely see Lord Vishnu idol in Shiva temple on the western side. So is lord Shiva in Vishnu temple. Lord Shiva on Nandi Vahana symbolises that death is approaching living beings slowly as the buffelow moves. Shiva is giver of death. Vishnu is sustainer. Sustainance should come fast as Garuda. Bhrama the creator. Many of you know this. In many avatars Lord Vishnu killed many demons/ horrible persons doing the work of Shiva. So said Lord.

Whether Shiva or Visnu do not ponder over it. Life span is very short. 10 years anyone can realise has gone without realisation. Don`t waste time. Make devotion and reach that Lord. In my next mail I will give details from puranas. B.Sathyanarayan

-----------

Of course, who really knows what Krishna said? Such statements are often used by Vaishnava fundamentalists to "prove" that Krishna is "really the Creator of all" including Siva. It is nice you are studying the Hindu religion. Note: Hindus should really not be using the term "Lord" or "God" for that matter.

Think about "knowing" that "There is no difference between Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna." Just another "obvious" trick of the ego.

one should stop using names and forms.

Swami Param

-----------

Rajinder Vohra <rajinder_vohra wrote: II SHRI HARI II Lord Krishna said in Vibhuti Yog of Shrimad Bhagwat that in Vaihnavas, HE is the Param Vaishnav SHIV. In Shri Shiv Chalisa the following verses (vakya) are written: “Hari Har ek (one) roop gunsheela Karat Swami Sewak ki leela Rahte dono poojat pujwavat Pooja paddati sabni seekhavat. Maruti (Shri hanuman ji) ban sewa keeni Rameshwar (Ishawar of Sri Ram) ban sewa leeni “ In Skand Puran, Shri Vishnu categorically states that HE and SHIV both are ONE and akatya (indivisible). Whosoever will make difference between them shall go to Rorak Narak (a type of Hell). In Shiv Maha Puran, Lord SHIV categorically states that HE and Shri Vishnu are ONE

and whosoever will make differentiate between them shall not get rebirth as manushya. Therefore, Lord Krishna reveals a param staya about HIS being SHIVA and SHIVA being KRISHNA. In Bhakti Yog of Vedas, ananya bhakti is emphasised i.e.

worship of ONE roop (vigraha or figure) of GOD. Therefore, If you worship Lord SHIV and you also love Lord Krishna, you can recite Shri Krishna names also But keeping the roop of Lord SHIV in the mind. This way you can purify yourself and attain the All Mighty GOD as and when your bhakti attains parikashtha (ultimate limit) and you get the blessing of a Sat Guru. II SHIV OM II Shubh Kamna Sahit, RAJINDER MOHAN

VOHRA---- Lord is one and is intelligence of all. God cannot be reached by merely worldly materials as that of your mind, your intelligence, it is because of your complete faith in the god, that his mere blessing would give you his divinity. Worldly material cannot grasp God, He is above of all those. Very first lesson that if you have hate with any community, any living being it is the same as you are having hate with param-atma. Duty is assigned in dharma-shastra as which community has to do what work, but by merely hating a community or considering your community as above of other makes you no where . look for “vasudev sarvam”- (look god in everyone) . Do’s and don’t are being very well defined in dharma shastra, you have example of religious saints and lord Ram in front of you as have to behave live

life like. do your duty according to your varna, and please do not harm anyone, that does not mean you have to support the ones who are doing wrong deeds. It is person who is doing wrong deeds, and have to be punished for that, after all dharm is above all. It is god who has taken all the birth in the universe whether you or me, and have been told to act according to dharma-shastra. Also please note at the time of maha-pralaya, all atma would be merged in god itself, of which the whole universe had come up from. ONE VERY IMPORTANT SAYING “PLEASE DEVOTE YOURSELF TO THE LORD AND ASK HIM TO LEAD YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH, “, AS IT IS SAID TILL THE PERSON USES HIS INTELLIGENCE , GOD NEVER INTERFERES, BUT ONCE WHEN HE BECOMES COMPLETE DEVOTEE, IT IS HIS BLESSINGS WHICH COMES INTO FORCE. As regard lord Krishna stating “I being lord shiva” it is stated that the paramatma is the sole of all, out atma is also a part of paramatma. It is one single paramatma

which has taken shape of many. Rgds Ram ram Manish Pugalia -- It may be relevant here>>> BHAGVADA GEETA TEXT 7/22 sa taya sraddhaya yuktas tasyaradhanam ihate labhate ca tatah kaman mayaiva vihitan hi tan TRANSLATION Endowed with such a faith, he seeks favors of a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone. PURPORT The demigods cannot award benedictions to the devotees without the permission of the Supreme Lord. The living entity may forget that everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, but the demigods do not forget. So the worship of demigods and achievement of desired results are not due to the demigods but to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by arrangement.

The less intelligent living entity does not know this, and therefore he foolishly goes to the demigods for some benefit. But the pure devotee, when in need of something, prays only to the Supreme Lord. Asking for material benefit, however, is not a sign of a pure devotee. A living entity goes to the demigods usually because he is mad to fulfill his lust. This happens when something undue is desired by the living entity, and the Lord Himself does not fulfill the desire. In the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said that one who worships the Supreme Lord and at the same time desires material enjoyment is contradictory in his desires. Devotional service of the Supreme Lord and the worship of a demigod cannot be on the same platform because worship of a demigod is material and devotional service to the Supreme Lord is completely spiritual. For the living entity who desires to return to Godhead, material desires are impediments. A pure devotee of the Lord is therefore not

awarded the material benefits desired by less intelligent living entities who prefer to worship demigods of the material world rather than engage in devotional service of the Supreme Lord. TEXT 7/ 23 antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam devan deva-yajo yanti mad-bhakta yanti mam api TRANSLATION Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. PURPORT Some commentators on the Gita say that one who worships a demigod can reach the Supreme Lord, but here it is clearly stated that the worshipers of demigods go to the different planetary systems where various demigods are situated, just as a worshiper of the sun achieves the sun or a worshiper of the demigod of the moon achieves the moon. Similarly, if anyone wants to worship a

demigod like Indra, he can attain that particular god's planet. It is not that everyone, regardless of whatever demigod is worshiped, will reach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is denied here, for it is clearly stated that the worshipers of the demigods go to different planets in the material world, but the devotee of the Supreme Lord goes directly to the supreme planet of the Personality of Godhead. Here the point may be raised that if the demigods are different parts of the body of the Supreme Lord, then the same end should be achieved by worshiping them. However, worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent because they don't know to what part of the body food must be supplied. Some of them are so foolish that they claim that there are many parts and many ways to supply food. This isn't very sanguine. Can anyone supply food to the body through the ears or eyes? They do not know that these demigods are different parts of the universal body of the Supreme

Lord, and in their ignorance they believe that each and every demigod is a separate God and a competitor of the Supreme Lord. Not only are demigods parts of the Supreme Lord, but ordinary living entities are also. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that the brahmanas are the head of the Supreme Lord, the ksatriyas are the arms, etc., and that all serve different functions. Regardless of the situation, if one knows that both the demigods and himself are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, his knowledge is perfect. But if he does not understand this, he achieves different planets where the demigods reside. This is not the same destination the devotee reaches. The results achieved by the demigods' benedictions are perishable because within this material world the planets, the demigods and their worshipers are all perishable. Therefore it is clearly stated in this verse that all results achieved by worshiping demigods are perishable, and therefore such

worship is performed by the less intelligent living entity. Because the pure devotee engaged in Krsna consciousness in devotional service of the Supreme Lord achieves eternal blissful existence that is full of knowledge, his achievements and those of the common worshiper of the demigods are different. The Supreme Lord is unlimited; His favor is unlimited; His mercy is unlimited. Therefore the mercy of the Supreme Lord upon His pure devotees is unlimited. HARE KRISHNA P.K.Lamba -- Dear Friends, Namaskaar and pranaams ! If anyone thinks that he has reached the SUMMIT (pinnacle) of knowledge, he would be the most open-minded person, without trying to impose his knowledge. TRUE KNOWLEDGE IS INFINITE AND IS ISHWARA JNAANA (AND ONE WOULD NEVER DARE TO DECLARE THAT "I KNOW EVERYTHING"). Yes, of course, we can use our

logic and positive exchanges to remove our own misunderstandings in order to move closer the the ONE AND ONLY TRUTH, THAT IS ISHWARA. Quoting few verses from various scriptures here and there to prove one's point is not enough to establish the INTINITE NATURE OF TRUTH. One should always have checks and balances of his own spiritual journey's progress, and unless one feels deep inside "NETI... NETI.... (this is not... this is not.....)", one may not be on the right path to the goal. Depending on a particular dogma, one may not reach the TRUTH. IT IS A PROCESS OF INCESSANT (NON-STOP) INQUISITIVENESS, SEEKING, LEARNING, UNDERSTANDING, THROUGH EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION, DISCUSSIONS DEBATES, "REALISING AND EXPERIENCING THE TRUTH WITHIN ONE'S "SELF THAT HELPS ONE TO REACH THE "SAT-CHIT-ANANDA" (an eternal bliss by becoming the KNOWLEDGE ITSELF). VEDA VYAASA BHAGAVAN SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FOOL, WHO CODIFIED VEDAS, AND THEN TO HAVE AUTHORED BRAHMASUTRA DOWN TO PURANAS AND UPAPURANAS

IN ORDER TO LEAD EVERY HUMAN BEING TO THE DIVINE THROUGH VARIOUS PATHS OF YOGA, ESPECIALLY "BHAKTHI YOGA" FOR THE ORDINARY HUMANS. THE ULTIMATE TRUTH THAT IS ISHWARA IS PRESENTED "AT DIFFERENT LEVELS" TO THE HUMAN RACE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN GET CONNECTED TO THE "ALL-PERVASIVE (OMNI-PRESENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNI-SCIENT) DIVINE". To broadly put the classification, the following would give a guideline on these different presentation : - BRAHM SANKALPA - AUM - AS THE PRIMORDIAL SOUND SANKALPA - PURUSHA SANKALPA - AADI PARAASHAKTHI SANKALPA - PURUSHA PRAKRITI SANKALPA - THRIMURTI SANKALPA - THRIMURTI WITH THEIR CONSORTS SANKALPA - INCARNATION SANKALPA - THROUGH DIFFERENT DEVATHAS ALL LEADING TO THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH - SANKALPA, EXPLAINED THROUGH VARIOUS PURANAS AND UPAPURANAS. One who questions Veda Vyaasa Bhagavan's wisdom should be be trying to learn the whole scriptural wisdom, as their consciousness has been

blocked half-way through and stuck there, refusing to move forward. THE FIRST BOOK OF ALL MANKIND, RG VEDA SAYS : TAD VISHNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20) There are more than 23 different Devathas discussed in RG VEDA and these Devathas are power centres in our our physiology guiding various (trillions of) activities within our body, helping us poor arrogant souls through the mysterious ways of CREATION/SUSTENANCE/DISSOLUTION to the ultimate GOAL OF ABODE OF ISHWARA. With best regards, VM (vavamenon) ---- On Behalf Of sjackson07513Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:02 PM Subject: When Lord Kriishna says, "I am Lord Shiva" Namaste to all,If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, "I am Lord Shiva."The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning

now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.I would welcome any comments.Om Namah ShivayaBlessings to all, Steve-------------------------Gita Talk GuidelinesFROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).5. Please limit discussions

to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram

[Guest guest]

Swami RamPlease define " Vaishnava fundamentalists " P.K.LAMBAOn Dec 5, 2007 5:43 PM, baiya sathyanarayan <baiya07_sathya

> wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Sadaks,

In any ancient temple built by sacred saint and songs sung about that temple, one can definetely see Lord Vishnu idol in Shiva temple on the western side. So is lord Shiva in Vishnu temple. Lord Shiva on Nandi Vahana symbolises that death is approaching living beings slowly as the buffelow moves. Shiva is giver of death. Vishnu is sustainer. Sustainance should come fast as Garuda. Bhrama the creator. Many of you know this. In many avatars Lord Vishnu killed many demons/ horrible persons doing the work of Shiva. So said Lord.

Whether Shiva or Visnu do not ponder over it. Life span is very short. 10 years anyone can realise has gone without realisation. Don`t waste time. Make devotion and reach that Lord. In my next mail I will give details from puranas.

B.Sathyanarayan

-----------

Of course, who really knows what Krishna said? Such statements are often used by Vaishnava fundamentalists to " prove " that Krishna is " really the Creator of all " including Siva. It is nice you are studying the Hindu religion. Note: Hindus should really not be using the term " Lord " or " God " for that matter.

Think about " knowing " that " There is no difference between Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna. " Just another " obvious " trick of the ego.

one should stop using names and forms.

Swami Param

-----------

Rajinder Vohra <rajinder_vohra wrote:

II SHRI HARI II

Lord Krishna said in Vibhuti Yog of Shrimad Bhagwat that in Vaihnavas, HE is the Param Vaishnav SHIV.

In Shri Shiv Chalisa the following verses (vakya) are written:

"Hari Har ek (one) roop gunsheela

Karat Swami Sewak ki leela Rahte dono poojat pujwavat

Pooja paddati sabni seekhavat.

Maruti (Shri hanuman ji) ban sewa keeni

Rameshwar (Ishawar of Sri Ram) ban sewa leeni "

In Skand Puran, Shri Vishnu categorically states that HE and SHIV both are ONE and akatya

(indivisible). Whosoever will make difference between them shall go to Rorak Narak (a type of Hell). In Shiv Maha Puran, Lord SHIV categorically states that HE and Shri Vishnu are ONE

and whosoever will make differentiate between them shall not get rebirth as manushya.

Therefore, Lord Krishna reveals a param staya about HIS being SHIVA and SHIVA being KRISHNA.

In Bhakti Yog of Vedas, ananya bhakti is emphasised i.e.

worship of ONE roop (vigraha or figure) of GOD. Therefore, If you worship Lord SHIV and you also love Lord Krishna, you can recite Shri Krishna names also But keeping the roop of Lord SHIV in the mind.

This way you can purify yourself and attain the All Mighty GOD as and when your bhakti attains parikashtha (ultimate limit) and you get the blessing of a Sat Guru.

II SHIV OM II

Shubh Kamna Sahit, RAJINDER MOHAN

VOHRA---- Lord is one and is intelligence of all. God cannot be reached by merely worldly materials as that of your mind, your intelligence, it is because of your complete faith in the god, that his mere blessing would give you his divinity. Worldly material cannot grasp God, He is above of all those. Very first lesson that if you have hate with any community, any living being it is the same as you are having hate with param-atma. Duty is assigned in dharma-shastra as which community has to do what work, but by merely hating a community or considering your community as above of other makes you no where . look for "vasudev sarvam"- (look god in everyone) . Do's and don't are being very well defined in dharma shastra, you have example of religious saints and lord Ram in front of you as have to behave live

life like. do your duty according to your varna, and please do not harm anyone, that does not mean you have to support the ones who are doing wrong deeds. It is person who is doing wrong deeds, and have to be punished for that, after all dharm is above all. It is god who has taken all the birth in the universe whether you or me, and have been told to act according to dharma-shastra. Also please note at the time of maha-pralaya, all atma would be merged in god itself, of which the whole universe had come up from. ONE VERY IMPORTANT SAYING "PLEASE DEVOTE YOURSELF TO THE LORD AND ASK HIM TO LEAD YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH, ", AS IT IS SAID TILL THE PERSON USES HIS INTELLIGENCE , GOD NEVER INTERFERES, BUT ONCE WHEN HE BECOMES COMPLETE DEVOTEE, IT IS HIS BLESSINGS WHICH COMES INTO FORCE. As regard lord Krishna stating "I being lord shiva" it is stated that the paramatma is the sole of all, out atma is also a part of paramatma. It is one single paramatma

which has taken shape of many. Rgds Ram ram Manish Pugalia -- It may be relevant here>>>

BHAGVADA GEETA TEXT 7/22 sa taya sraddhaya yuktas tasyaradhanam ihate labhate ca tatah kaman mayaiva vihitan hi tan TRANSLATION Endowed with such a faith, he seeks favors of a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone. PURPORT The demigods cannot award benedictions to the devotees without the permission of the Supreme Lord. The living entity may forget that everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, but the demigods do not forget. So the worship of demigods and achievement of desired results are not due to the demigods but to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by arrangement.

The less intelligent living entity does not know this, and therefore he foolishly goes to the demigods for some benefit. But the pure devotee, when in need of something, prays only to the Supreme Lord. Asking for material benefit, however, is not a sign of a pure devotee. A living entity goes to the demigods usually because he is mad to fulfill his lust. This happens when something undue is desired by the living entity, and the Lord Himself does not fulfill the desire. In the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said that one who worships the Supreme Lord and at the same time desires material enjoyment is contradictory in his desires. Devotional service of the Supreme Lord and the worship of a demigod cannot be on the same platform because worship of a demigod is material and devotional service to the Supreme Lord is completely spiritual. For the living entity who desires to return to Godhead, material desires are impediments. A pure devotee of the Lord is therefore not

awarded the material benefits desired by less intelligent living entities who prefer to worship demigods of the material world rather than engage in devotional service of the Supreme Lord. TEXT 7/ 23

antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam devan deva-yajo yanti mad-bhakta yanti mam api TRANSLATION Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. PURPORT Some commentators on the Gita say that one who worships a demigod can reach the Supreme Lord, but here it is clearly stated that the worshipers of demigods go to the different planetary systems where various demigods are situated, just as a worshiper of the sun achieves the sun or a worshiper of the demigod of the moon achieves the moon. Similarly, if anyone wants to worship a

demigod like Indra, he can attain that particular god's planet. It is not that everyone, regardless of whatever demigod is worshiped, will reach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is denied here, for it is clearly stated that the worshipers of the demigods go to different planets in the material world, but the devotee of the Supreme Lord goes directly to the supreme planet of the Personality of Godhead. Here the point may be raised that if the demigods are different parts of the body of the Supreme Lord, then the same end should be achieved by worshiping them. However, worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent because they don't know to what part of the body food must be supplied. Some of them are so foolish that they claim that there are many parts and many ways to supply food. This isn't very sanguine. Can anyone supply food to the body through the ears or eyes? They do not know that these demigods are different parts of the universal body of the Supreme

Lord, and in their ignorance they believe that each and every demigod is a separate God and a competitor of the Supreme Lord. Not only are demigods parts of the Supreme Lord, but ordinary living entities are also. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that the brahmanas are the head of the Supreme Lord, the ksatriyas are the arms, etc., and that all serve different functions. Regardless of the situation, if one knows that both the demigods and himself are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, his knowledge is perfect. But if he does not understand this, he achieves different planets where the demigods reside. This is not the same destination the devotee reaches. The results achieved by the demigods' benedictions are perishable because within this material world the planets, the demigods and their worshipers are all perishable. Therefore it is clearly stated in this verse that all results achieved by worshiping demigods are perishable, and therefore such

worship is performed by the less intelligent living entity. Because the pure devotee engaged in Krsna consciousness in devotional service of the Supreme Lord achieves eternal blissful existence that is full of knowledge, his achievements and those of the common worshiper of the demigods are different. The Supreme Lord is unlimited; His favor is unlimited; His mercy is unlimited. Therefore the mercy of the Supreme Lord upon His pure devotees is unlimited. HARE KRISHNA P.K.Lamba -- Dear Friends, Namaskaar and pranaams ! If anyone thinks that he has reached the SUMMIT (pinnacle) of knowledge, he would be the most open-minded person, without trying to impose his knowledge. TRUE KNOWLEDGE IS INFINITE AND IS ISHWARA JNAANA (AND ONE WOULD NEVER DARE TO DECLARE THAT " I KNOW EVERYTHING " ). Yes, of course, we can use our

logic and positive exchanges to remove our own misunderstandings in order to move closer the the ONE AND ONLY TRUTH, THAT IS ISHWARA. Quoting few verses from various scriptures here and there to prove one's point is not enough to establish the INTINITE NATURE OF TRUTH. One should always have checks and balances of his own spiritual journey's progress, and unless one feels deep inside " NETI... NETI.... (this is not... this is not.....) " , one may not be on the right path to the goal. Depending on a particular dogma, one may not reach the TRUTH. IT IS A PROCESS OF INCESSANT (NON-STOP) INQUISITIVENESS, SEEKING, LEARNING, UNDERSTANDING, THROUGH EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION, DISCUSSIONS DEBATES, " REALISING AND EXPERIENCING THE TRUTH WITHIN ONE'S " SELF " " THAT HELPS ONE TO REACH THE " SAT-CHIT-ANANDA " (an eternal bliss by becoming the KNOWLEDGE ITSELF). VEDA VYAASA BHAGAVAN SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FOOL, WHO CODIFIED VEDAS, AND THEN TO HAVE AUTHORED BRAHMASUTRA DOWN TO PURANAS AND UPAPURANAS

IN ORDER TO LEAD EVERY HUMAN BEING TO THE DIVINE THROUGH VARIOUS PATHS OF YOGA, ESPECIALLY " BHAKTHI YOGA " FOR THE ORDINARY HUMANS. THE ULTIMATE TRUTH THAT IS ISHWARA IS PRESENTED " AT DIFFERENT LEVELS " TO THE HUMAN RACE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN GET CONNECTED TO THE " ALL-PERVASIVE (OMNI-PRESENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNI-SCIENT) DIVINE " . To broadly put the classification, the following would give a guideline on these different presentation : - BRAHM SANKALPA - AUM - AS THE PRIMORDIAL SOUND SANKALPA - PURUSHA SANKALPA - AADI PARAASHAKTHI SANKALPA - PURUSHA PRAKRITI SANKALPA - THRIMURTI SANKALPA - THRIMURTI WITH THEIR CONSORTS SANKALPA - INCARNATION SANKALPA - THROUGH DIFFERENT DEVATHAS ALL LEADING TO THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH - SANKALPA, EXPLAINED THROUGH VARIOUS PURANAS AND UPAPURANAS. One who questions Veda Vyaasa Bhagavan's wisdom should be be trying to learn the whole scriptural wisdom, as their consciousness has been

blocked half-way through and stuck there, refusing to move forward. THE FIRST BOOK OF ALL MANKIND, RG VEDA SAYS : TAD VISHNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20) There are more than 23 different Devathas discussed in RG VEDA and these Devathas are power centres in our our physiology guiding various (trillions of) activities within our body, helping us poor arrogant souls through the mysterious ways of CREATION/SUSTENANCE/DISSOLUTION to the ultimate GOAL OF ABODE OF ISHWARA. With best regards, VM (vavamenon) ----

[

] On Behalf Of sjackson07513Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:02 PM

Subject: When Lord Kriishna says, " I am Lord Shiva "

Namaste to all,

If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, " I am Lord Shiva. " The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning

now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.I would welcome any comments.

Om Namah ShivayaBlessings to all, Steve-------------------------Gita Talk GuidelinesFROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response

3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).5. Please limit discussions

to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram

[Guest guest]

Namasthe mr.swami param, : This is my question for my own understanding and clarification purpose. Can you please give the explanation under what context that we should be understanding this statement "Note: Hindus should really not be using the term "Lord" or "God" for that matter. " by mr.swami Param in below email thread.

 

I am a hindu by birth but I usually think of supreme as supreme/divinity/Lord/God/or whatever you feel about that Ultimate/ at that moment in your heart is all it is which is beyond birth/death/religion/etc..

Namasthe again,

Regards,

Bharathi.

 

-

Shri Swami Param,

 

II SHRI HARI HARII

 

Your statement that who really knows………, is not appropriate. What Shri Krishna said is written in Shrimad Bhagwat by Bagwan Ved Vyas. Whether Vaishnavas or Shav, they do not ever prove any thing but are only devoted to Bhakti of their Paramatma. A devotee (Bhagat) has no such qualities like “fundamentalist” as Bhakti is above these dualities (Dawand). Devotion (Bhakti) has no place for logic or argument as Bhakti flows on the path of Shradha and Vishwas. With these basis only the fruit of sadhna is attained as Shastra quote “ Vishawaso faldayaka”.

 

Please do not attempt to hurt the sentiments of devotees but purify your quest (Jigyasa) for knowing the truth from Saints, Ved, Shastras and Puranas.

 

Shubh Kamna Sahit,

 

RAJINDER MOHAN VOHRA

 

PK LAMBA <pklamba231 Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 7:14:28 AMRe: When Lord Kriishna says, "I am Lord Shiva"

 

Swami RamPlease define "Vaishnava fundamentalists"P.K.LAMBA

On Dec 5, 2007 5:43 PM, baiya sathyanarayan <baiya07_sathya@ .co. in > wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sadaks,

In any ancient temple built by sacred saint and songs sung about that temple, one can definetely see Lord Vishnu idol in Shiva temple on the western side. So is lord Shiva in Vishnu temple. Lord Shiva on Nandi Vahana symbolises that death is approaching living beings slowly as the buffelow moves. Shiva is giver of death. Vishnu is sustainer. Sustainance should come fast as Garuda. Bhrama the creator. Many of you know this. In many avatars Lord Vishnu killed many demons/ horrible persons doing the work of Shiva. So said Lord. Whether Shiva or Visnu do not ponder over it. Life span is very short. 10 years anyone can realise has gone without realisation. Don`t waste time. Make devotion and reach that Lord. In my next mail I will give details from puranas.

B.Sathyanarayan------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --

Of course, who really knows what Krishna said? Such statements are often used by Vaishnava fundamentalists to "prove" that Krishna is "really the Creator of all" including Siva. It is nice you are studying the Hindu religion. Note: Hindus should really not be using the term "Lord" or "God" for that matter.

Think about "knowing" that "There is no difference between Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna." Just another "obvious" trick of the ego.

one should stop using names and forms.

Swami Param

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --

Rajinder Vohra <rajinder_vohra@ isgec.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

II SHRI HARI II

 

Lord Krishna said in Vibhuti Yog of Shrimad Bhagwat that in Vaihnavas, HE is the Param Vaishnav SHIV.

 

In Shri Shiv Chalisa the following verses (vakya) are written:

 

"Hari Har ek (one) roop gunsheela

Karat Swami Sewak ki leela

Rahte dono poojat pujwavat

Pooja paddati sabni seekhavat.

 

Maruti (Shri hanuman ji) ban sewa keeni

Rameshwar (Ishawar of Sri Ram) ban sewa leeni "

 

In Skand Puran, Shri Vishnu categorically states that HE and SHIV both are ONE and akatya

(indivisible) . Whosoever will make difference between them shall go to Rorak Narak (a type of Hell).

In Shiv Maha Puran, Lord SHIV categorically states that HE and Shri Vishnu are ONE and whosoever

will make differentiate between them shall not get rebirth as manushya.

 

Therefore, Lord Krishna reveals a param staya about HIS being SHIVA and SHIVA being KRISHNA.

 

In Bhakti Yog of Vedas, ananya bhakti is emphasised i.e. worship of ONE roop (vigraha or figure) of GOD.

Therefore, If you worship Lord SHIV and you also love Lord Krishna, you can recite Shri Krishna names also

But keeping the roop of Lord SHIV in the mind.

 

This way you can purify yourself and attain the All Mighty GOD as and when your bhakti attains parikashtha

(ultimate limit) and you get the blessing of a Sat Guru.

 

II SHIV OM II

 

Shubh Kamna Sahit,

RAJINDER MOHAN VOHRA------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------- Lord is one and is intelligence of all. God cannot be reached by merely worldly materials as that of your mind, your intelligence, it is because of your complete faith in the god, that his mere blessing would give you his divinity. Worldly material cannot grasp God, He is above of all those. Very first lesson that if you have hate with any community, any living being it is the same as you are having hate with param-atma. Duty is assigned in dharma-shastra as which community has to do what work, but by merely hating a community or considering your community as above of other makes you no where . look for "vasudev sarvam"- (look god in everyone) . Do's and don't are being very well defined in dharma shastra, you have example of religious saints and lord Ram in front of you as have to behave live life like. do your duty according to your varna, and please do not harm anyone, that does not mean you have to support the ones who are doing wrong deeds. It is person who is doing wrong deeds, and have to be punished for that, after all dharm is above all. It is god who has taken all the birth in the universe whether you or me, and have been told to act according to dharma-shastra. Also please note at the time of maha-pralaya, all atma would be merged in god itself, of which the whole universe had come up from. ONE VERY IMPORTANT SAYING "PLEASE DEVOTE YOURSELF TO THE LORD AND ASK HIM TO LEAD YOU TO THE RIGHT PATH, ", AS IT IS SAID TILL THE PERSON USES HIS INTELLIGENCE , GOD NEVER INTERFERES, BUT ONCE WHEN HE BECOMES COMPLETE DEVOTEE, IT IS HIS BLESSINGS WHICH COMES INTO FORCE. As regard lord Krishna stating "I being lord shiva" it is stated that the paramatma is the sole of all, out atma is also a part of paramatma. It is one single paramatma which has taken shape of many. Rgds Ram ram Manish Pugalia

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ----- It may be relevant here>>> BHAGVADA GEETA TEXT 7/22 sa taya sraddhaya yuktas tasyaradhanam ihate labhate ca tatah kaman mayaiva vihitan hi tan

TRANSLATION Endowed with such a faith, he seeks favors of a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone.

PURPORT The demigods cannot award benedictions to the devotees without the permission of the Supreme Lord. The living entity may forget that everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, but the demigods do not forget. So the worship of demigods and achievement of desired results are not due to the demigods but to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, by arrangement. The less intelligent living entity does not know this, and therefore he foolishly goes to the demigods for some benefit. But the pure devotee, when in need of something, prays only to the Supreme Lord. Asking for material benefit, however, is not a sign of a pure devotee. A living entity goes to the demigods usually because he is mad to fulfill his lust. This happens when something undue is desired by the living entity, and the Lord Himself does not fulfill the desire. In the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said that one who worships the Supreme Lord and at the same time desires material enjoyment is

contradictory in his desires. Devotional service of the Supreme Lord and the worship of a demigod cannot be on the same platform because worship of a demigod is material and devotional service to the Supreme Lord is completely spiritual. For the living entity who desires to return to Godhead, material desires are impediments. A pure devotee of the Lord is therefore not awarded the material benefits desired by less intelligent living entities who prefer to worship demigods of the material world rather than engage in devotional service of the Supreme Lord.

TEXT 7/ 23 antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam devan deva-yajo yanti mad-bhakta yanti mam api

TRANSLATION Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. PURPORT

Some commentators on the Gita say that one who worships a demigod can reach the Supreme Lord, but here it is clearly stated that the worshipers of demigods go to the different planetary systems where various demigods are situated, just as a worshiper of the sun achieves the sun or a worshiper of the demigod of the moon achieves the moon. Similarly, if anyone wants to worship a demigod like Indra, he can attain that particular god's planet. It is not that everyone, regardless of whatever demigod is worshiped, will reach the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is denied here, for it is clearly stated that the worshipers of the demigods go to different planets in the material world, but the devotee of the Supreme Lord goes directly to the supreme planet of the Personality of Godhead. Here the point may be raised that if the demigods are different parts of the body of the Supreme Lord, then the same end should be achieved by worshiping them. However,

worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent because they don't know to what part of the body food must be supplied. Some of them are so foolish that they claim that there are many parts and many ways to supply food. This isn't very sanguine. Can anyone supply food to the body through the ears or eyes? They do not know that these demigods are different parts of the universal body of the Supreme Lord, and in their ignorance they believe that each and every demigod is a separate God and a competitor of the Supreme Lord. Not only are demigods parts of the Supreme Lord, but ordinary living entities are also. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that the brahmanas are the head of the Supreme Lord, the ksatriyas are the arms, etc., and that all serve different functions. Regardless of the situation, if one knows that both the demigods and himself are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, his knowledge is perfect. But if he does not understand this, he achieves different planets where the demigods reside. This is not the same destination the devotee reaches. The results achieved by the demigods' benedictions are perishable because within this material world the planets, the demigods and their worshipers are all perishable. Therefore it is clearly stated in this verse that all results achieved by worshiping demigods are perishable, and therefore such worship is performed by the less intelligent living entity. Because the pure devotee engaged in Krsna consciousness in devotional service of the Supreme Lord achieves eternal blissful existence that is full of knowledge, his achievements and those of the common worshiper of the demigods are different. The Supreme Lord is unlimited; His favor is unlimited; His mercy is unlimited. Therefore the mercy of the Supreme Lord upon His pure devotees is unlimited. HARE KRISHNA P.K.Lamba ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ----- Dear Friends, Namaskaar and pranaams ! If anyone thinks that he has reached the SUMMIT (pinnacle) of knowledge, he would be the most open-minded person, without trying to impose his knowledge. TRUE KNOWLEDGE IS INFINITE AND IS ISHWARA JNAANA (AND ONE WOULD NEVER DARE TO DECLARE THAT "I KNOW EVERYTHING"). Yes, of course, we can use our logic and positive exchanges to remove our own misunderstandings in order to move closer the the ONE AND ONLY TRUTH, THAT IS ISHWARA. Quoting few verses from various scriptures here and there to prove one's point is not enough to establish the INTINITE NATURE OF TRUTH. One should always have checks and balances of his own spiritual journey's progress, and unless one feels deep inside "NETI... NETI.... (this is not... this is not.....)", one may not be on the right path to the goal. Depending on a particular dogma, one may not reach the TRUTH. IT IS A PROCESS OF INCESSANT (NON-STOP) INQUISITIVENESS, SEEKING, LEARNING, UNDERSTANDING, THROUGH EXCHANGE OF

INFORMATION, DISCUSSIONS DEBATES, "REALISING AND EXPERIENCING THE TRUTH WITHIN ONE'S "SELF THAT HELPS ONE TO REACH THE "SAT-CHIT-ANANDA" (an eternal bliss by becoming the KNOWLEDGE ITSELF). VEDA VYAASA BHAGAVAN SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FOOL, WHO CODIFIED VEDAS, AND THEN TO HAVE AUTHORED BRAHMASUTRA DOWN TO PURANAS AND UPAPURANAS IN ORDER TO LEAD EVERY HUMAN BEING TO THE DIVINE THROUGH VARIOUS PATHS OF YOGA, ESPECIALLY "BHAKTHI YOGA" FOR THE ORDINARY HUMANS. THE ULTIMATE TRUTH THAT IS ISHWARA IS PRESENTED "AT DIFFERENT LEVELS" TO THE HUMAN RACE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN GET CONNECTED TO THE "ALL-PERVASIVE (OMNI-PRESENT, OMNIPOTENT, OMNI-SCIENT) DIVINE". To broadly put the classification, the following would give a guideline on these different presentation : - BRAHM SANKALPA - AUM - AS THE PRIMORDIAL SOUND SANKALPA - PURUSHA SANKALPA - AADI PARAASHAKTHI SANKALPA - PURUSHA PRAKRITI SANKALPA - THRIMURTI SANKALPA - THRIMURTI WITH THEIR CONSORTS SANKALPA - INCARNATION SANKALPA - THROUGH DIFFERENT DEVATHAS ALL LEADING TO THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH - SANKALPA, EXPLAINED THROUGH VARIOUS PURANAS AND UPAPURANAS. One who questions Veda Vyaasa Bhagavan's wisdom should be be trying to learn the whole scriptural wisdom, as their consciousness has been blocked half-way through and stuck there, refusing to move forward. THE FIRST BOOK OF ALL MANKIND, RG VEDA SAYS : TAD VISHNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20) There are more than 23 different Devathas discussed in RG VEDA and these Devathas are power centres in our our physiology guiding various (trillions of) activities within our body, helping us poor arrogant souls through the mysterious ways of CREATION/SUSTENANCE /DISSOLUTION to the ultimate GOAL OF ABODE OF ISHWARA. With best regards, VM (vavamenon) ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------

@grou ps.com [ @grou ps.com] On Behalf Of sjackson07513Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:02 PM@grou ps.com When Lord Kriishna says, "I am Lord

Shiva"

 

 

 

 

Namaste to all, If anyone would like to please elaborate on the statement Lord Krishna makes, "I am Lord Shiva."The reason I am interested is that as my practice is developing I must admit I feel a strong connection with Lord Shiva including worship of shivalinga.I had started japa with Lord Krishna but after beginning now with recitation of Om Namah Shivaya, I feel a growing sense of peace and devotion and see changes in myself. I have also from the beginning felt a love for Lord Ganesh and Devi Mother Ambaji.I would welcome any comments. Om Namah ShivayaBlessings to all, Steve------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Gita Talk GuidelinesFROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhaks

clarify their doubts related to Gita shlokas. For responses to be posted, they must further clarify the understanding of Gitaji.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate the response 3. Please limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.4. Kindly make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to twenty line maximum, if possible).5. Please limit discussions to subject at hand.6. Please do not include links to other sites or other organizations7. Please do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Kindly do not address the response to a particular individual, since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to a large readership, not all responses will be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration

novices, youth, westerners, non-secterian audience. Please limit the use on only sanskrit words, and provide the english word with sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram