Why Evil continues to Grow? Why was Man Made to Live or to Die as Experienced Now?

[Guest guest]

My understanding is that all goods things come from GOD and the

destruction of evil too, as stated in the Gita. Even after the

destruction of the evil, the evil continues to grow more and more. Why? Why was

man made to live or to die as experienced now?

Thank you,

Paul Ponniah.

 

, Madan kaura <madan_kaura

wrote:

>

> Shree Hari

>

> Ram Ram

>

> Thank you all for your contribution to the Gita-talk group. Many

are contributing through reading, some by raising questions and some

by responding to the questions. The group has created new enthusiasm

and interest in Gitaji for the inspiration to many. The year 2007

has been specially good, the membership in the Gita-talk group has

increased by .... , certainly would like to keep up this momentum.

>

> Given that everyone is so busy in today's life style, the e-mail

volume has increased tremendously and many are having difficulty in

dealing with the e-mail. Due to lack of time, some may delete the

message without reading it. Believe, we can all help to reduce the

burden by focusing our precise questions and responses specifically

on Gita related subjects only. The moderators will appreciate your

following the guidelines below:

>

> GUIDELINES:

> 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

> 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

> 3. Kindly do not include personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc.

> 4. Please make your responses concise and to the point. (Up to

twenty line maximum, if possible).

> 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

> 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

> 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

> 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

> 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

> 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only and provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

>

> Warm Regards,

> MODERATOR

>

> Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

When God is understood experientially as One Totality

of our Being, not just an individual somewhere who is

managing us, then such questions are fully answered.

Of course such questions should be asked too, but then

our minds should be open to investigate the nature of

God. Such a question as why God allows evil things to

continue, assumes some image/belief about God as

separate being from being of ourselves!

If we stay open to all possibilities, God is deeply

understood as TOTALITY of our Being which we all

share. There is not a trace of personal, individual

thing in this world from the beginning. Nothing can

ever exists in isolation.

Now live from this understanding in daily life that

all of us are together(not as individual) God, then

question of who does what to whom is not a question.

There are apparantly evil acts coming from individuals

due to not truly knowing " themselves " and God. Such

acts are corrected from time to time and only truth

prevails just as promised in Geeta(Yada yadahi

dharmasya....)

Good and evil acts are only from individualistic

thinking. If we live righteously per Geeta teaching

only acts that are needed to celebrate Life will be

performed by us!

Namaskar, Pratap

 

---

sai ram,

 

if we believe that everything, good or bad, comes from God then know that there

is no bad at all. God is pure and nothing impure (bad) can come from him. Life

is a process to learn this and a journey to experience this union.

the so called awareness process or purification process is looked on as a

distruction of evil. actually it is just a move from one phase to another. a

thing which is good for me can be bad for you and vise versa. GOod and bad is

relative and is termed only as per the situation. In reality there is only Good

as everything is GOD.

this learning is an individual process which gets reflected on to the group.

Once we get tuned in the right frequency everything will become good and appear

also good...

 

all the best.

abhimanyu

 

---

prasnopanishad says'

those who have only virtuous acts " punya " , they go to heaven and those who

acquired only sins " papa " , go to hell and those who have both will enter into

the bhuloka that one can redeem oneself from the clutches of sins " papa " and

increase the percentage of virtuous actions " punya " or sins " papa " and feel the

effects of it. This is the world of good and evil.

 

Yv says' lokam ca punya papanam, therefore god destroys evil on land when it

becomes impossible otherwise periodically he would be destroying the evil on

installment basis through one or the other agencies.

 

Nobody can totally escape the sin or pain or evil on this earth and therefore

so long we live on earth we have to go with the pairs of opposites " dvandvas "

and with the knowledge of vedanta and the relevant practises of yoga we should

mend ourselves and raise ourselves.

esha upadesah esha vedopanishad.

Pain and sorrow " duhkha " is an opportunity to raise ourselves and if some evil

is not present, danger is never thought of or fought with.

It is Dharma and God that has made it conveniently like that.

Work, Worship and Wisdom(www) is the formula of happy life. Always be happy.

this is upadesa of Lord Krishna to us all.

prabhakar

---

First of all I tender my apology as what I am adding below is not a specific

reply to question asked.

Still, first I read mail of group next I item I happened to read was

through following email received from Spiritual Group <sadhaka >,

 

The mail is not exact reply but provides a substratum for answer. I felt

thrilled as Lord sent me this email in continuity of email. AND THUS

WANTED TO SHARE SAME.

 

Shree Hari:

 

12th January, 2008, Saturday

Paush Shukla Chaturthi, Vikram Samvat 2064, Shanivar

 

When you apply soap and scrub your body while taking a bath / shower, at that

time while the soap lather is on your body, how do you look? Do you look bad ?

Even if you look bad, you know in your mind that " I am really no that bad. " In

your mind you are clear that it is due to the lather from the soap that on the

surface this body looks like that, but in reality it is not like that.

 

Similarly, even if you see the worst of worst criminals, then too it should come

to your mind that superficially it appears like is he a criminal, but within, he

is a part of God (ray of God's consciousness). By wearing black clothes, can a

man become black? A man is what His Soul is. Similarly goodness and badness in a

person is in the inner faculties, but there is no change in God's consciousness

(Soul).

 

On one side is a realized Soul, a lover of God, a great siddha; while another is

a criminal, a butcher, a thief, etc. but in both these beings, there is no

difference in the essence of God. Only the one who loves God, is facing towards

God's consciousness.

 

Therefore while behaving properly in worldly relationships, the spiritual

aspirant's sight must only be on God's consciousness. The one whose sight

remains at all times on that very essence, that God Consciousness, is called a

man of equal, impartial, objective vision " samadarshi " .

................................................. "

 

hare krishna

P.K.LAMBA

---

 

--- " Paul Ponniah. " <shinyrozario wrote:

 

>

> My understanding is that all goods things come from

> GOD and the

> destruction of evil too, as stated in the Gita. Even

> after the

> destruction of the evil, the evil continues to grow

> more and more. Why? Why was man made to live or to

> die as experienced now?

> Thank you,

> Paul Ponniah.

>

> , Madan kaura

> <madan_kaura

> wrote:

> >

> > Shree Hari

> >

> > Ram Ram

> >

> > Thank you all for your contribution to the

> Gita-talk group. Many

> are contributing through reading, some by raising

> questions and some

> by responding to the questions. The group has

> created new enthusiasm

> and interest in Gitaji for the inspiration to many.

> The year 2007

> has been specially good, the membership in the

> Gita-talk group has

> increased by .... , certainly would like to keep up

> this momentum.

> >

> > Given that everyone is so busy in today's life

> style, the e-mail

> volume has increased tremendously and many are

> having difficulty in

> dealing with the e-mail. Due to lack of time, some

> may delete the

> message without reading it. Believe, we can all help

> to reduce the

> burden by focusing our precise questions and

> responses specifically

> on Gita related subjects only. The moderators will

> appreciate your

> following the guidelines below:

> >

> > GUIDELINES:

> > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas

> clarify their doubts

> related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses

> which further

> clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be

> posted.

> > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other

> scriptures to

> substantiate your response.

> > 3. Kindly do not include personal feelings,

> opinions, beliefs etc.

> > 4. Please make your responses concise and to the

> point. (Up to

> twenty line maximum, if possible).

> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at

> hand only.

> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites

> or other

> organizations.

> > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information

> such as phone

> number, address etc.

> > 8. Please do not address the response to a

> particular individual

> since the message is going to the entire group.

> > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may

> not be posted.

> > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the

> posting, if

> content is unclear or not appropriate for

> distribution to the group.

> > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the

> novices, youth,

> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the

> use to Sanskrit

> words only and provide the English word with

> Sanskrit bracketed

> wherever possible.

> >

> > Warm Regards,

> > MODERATOR

> >

> > Ram Ram

>

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

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[Guest guest]

Namasthe all, This is my humble opinion sharing with you all based on what I understood and heard from others.

 

Yes, All the things which we perceive as good or bad (its only thro our own perspective that we define certain things as Good and certain things as Bad..but from Absolute perspective, there is neither good nor bad.Regarding the life and death also, from absolute perspective, its only the body that dies which is anyway the temporary aspect of materialist worlds and becomes one with the earth after the body dies.

But to understand as to why this happens, even the start of the life with the body and the perishing of the body, we need to understand the basic underlying principles of Veda ( the Upanishads came about with the ideas from veda, then Bhagavadgita gives us the central theme of the upanishands in more simpler ways).

 

In many religions, the people talk about the final result of all the cause of this world and why it happens and etc etc.. In hinduism, in VEDA, if you go to the source.. it gives us different methodologies to arrive at that BRAHMAN or SUPREME. It gives us the starting step to proceed with 'JIGNASA' self inquiry and then start to understand who yo are first of all and then you will know the next steps slowly by your own understanding. Do not worry of what the end result is, but do the SELF ENQUIRY within yourself based on whatever you know already about life and experience and spirituality. Contemplate silently in your mind and heart as to WHO YOU ARE?

 

Yes, all these discussions and reading and conversations will definitely help us in our own enquiry process as a strating step but until you comes out with your own understanding for your self, the ideas behind these questions will not be completely clear. Havings said this, these are the three steps, we can start with.

1. reading/discussions..etc etc

2. trying to understand what the meaning is behind all these readings.

3. contemplating on the higher supreme/divinity (based on your own understanding of life and experiences as of now).

4. These abouve three steps will only lead you to the starting step of self-inquiry and from there, you understand the process of the existence of life slowly.

 

 

--- "Paul Ponniah." <shinyrozario@ > wrote:> > My understanding is that all goods things come from> GOD and the> destruction of evil too, as stated in the Gita. Even> after the> destruction of the evil, the evil continues to grow> more and more. Why? Why was man made to live or to> die as experienced now?> Thank you,> Paul Ponniah.> > @grou ps.com, Madan kaura> <madan_kaura@ ...>> wrote:> >> > Shree Hari> >> > Ram Ram> >> > Thank you all for your contribution to the> Gita-talk group. Many> are contributing through reading, some by raising> questions and some> by responding to the questions. The group has> created new enthusiasm> and interest in Gitaji for the inspiration to many.> The year 2007> has been specially good, the membership in the> Gita-talk group has> increased by .... , certainly would like to keep up> this momentum.> >> > Given that everyone is so busy in today's life> style, the e-mail> volume has increased tremendously and many are> having difficulty in> dealing with the e-mail. Due to lack of time, some> may

delete the> message without reading it. Believe, we can all help> to reduce the> burden by focusing our precise questions and> responses specifically> on Gita related subjects only. The moderators will> appreciate your> following the guidelines below:> >> > GUIDELINES:> > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas> clarify their doubts> related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses> which further> clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be> posted.> > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other> scriptures to> substantiate your response.> > 3. Kindly do not include personal feelings,> opinions, beliefs etc.> > 4. Please make your responses concise and to the> point. (Up to> twenty line maximum, if possible).> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the

subject at> hand only.> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites> or other> organizations.> > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information> such as phone> number, address etc.> > 8. Please do not address the response to a> particular individual> since the message is going to the entire group.> > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may> not be posted.> > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the> posting, if> content is unclear or not appropriate for> distribution to the group.> > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the> novices, youth,> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the> use to Sanskrit> words only and provide the English word with> Sanskrit bracketed> wherever possible.> >> > Warm Regards,>

> MODERATOR> >> > Ram Ram>

 

*************************************************************8

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Shree Hari Ram Ram Priya Sadhaka, prasana ke liye dhanayavad Swamiji Maharaj has brought this point time and again in his discourses, that the human beings have only one single goal in life of realizing God. By His grace, God has granted us the rear human birth for this purpose only, the short span of this life is

passing by so quickly. In the pursuit of this goal, Swamiji Maharaj says there is no room or time to question why there is evil in this mysterious world of His. We do not have the answers to these perplexing questions, we also were not given the responsibility to make a judgment about the world or solve this riddle. In addition, it is not within our power to change the world, only have the responsibility for ourselves. Swamiji Maharaj says, when we dwell on the evil people and their doings, we can't escape from these tendencies entering into ourselves. God has given human being the freedom, he or she may choose between the "divine qualities" Daivic or "demonaic qualities" Asuric way of life. As pointed out in Gitaji: (16-24) " Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what ought to be done and ought not to be done. Knowing this, you should act only in accordance with the sanction of scriptures.” Moreover, God does not interfere with the individual's choice of actions, the Karma theory takes care of it. What a declaration from all merciful God, we may have the asuric tendency earlier but once we sincerely resolve to turn towards Him, we are assured to reach the goal. (Refer to Gitaji 9-30 & 31 and 4-36). Swami Vivekanadaji declares on this subject: "Do not talk of the wickedness of the world and all its sins. Weep that you are bound to see wickedness yet. Weep that you are bound to see sin everywhere: and if you are to help the world, do not condemn it. Do not weaken it more. For what is sin, and what is misery and what are all these but the results of weakness? The world is made weaker and weaker everyday by such teachings. The remedy for weakness is not brooding over weakness, but thinking of strength. Teach men of the strength that is already within them. If there is

one word that you find coming like a bomb from the Upnishads, bursting like a bomb-shell upon masses of ignorance, it is the word, fearlessness. Fear is the cause of degradation and sin. It is the fear that brings misery, fear that brings death, fear that brings evil." (Ref: Swamiji’s Complete Works, II, pg. 87 and III, pg.160). Swami Sharandandji writes: "What we cannot possibly do, do not think about doing that, and what we can do and is

worthwhile doing, must be done right away and thus become free from the bondage (Raaga) of the Karma . This way we can free ourselves from the bondage of doer-ship, we will be able understand the idea that we are not the body but truly are the true Atma, then of course Sadhaka' is on his away to attain the only goal of life of uniting with the Supreme.” (Ref: Swamiji Sharananadji’s book in Hindi, Sant-Udbhodhan, pg. 206). Loving pranam A Sadhaka Pratap Bhatt <pratapbhatt wrote: Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!When God is understood experientially as One Totalityof our Being, not just an individual somewhere who ismanaging us, then such questions are fully answered.Of course such questions should be asked too, but thenour minds should be open to investigate the nature ofGod. Such a question as why God allows evil things tocontinue, assumes some image/belief about God asseparate being from being of ourselves! If we stay open to

all possibilities, God is deeplyunderstood as TOTALITY of our Being which we allshare. There is not a trace of personal, individualthing in this world from the beginning. Nothing canever exists in isolation.Now live from this understanding in daily life thatall of us are together(not as individual) God, thenquestion of who does what to whom is not a question.There are apparantly evil acts coming from individualsdue to not truly knowing "themselves" and God. Suchacts are corrected from time to time and only truthprevails just as promised in Geeta(Yada yadahidharmasya....)Good and evil acts are only from individualisticthinking. If we live righteously per Geeta teachingonly acts that are needed to celebrate Life will beperformed by us! Namaskar, Pratap-------------------------sai ram, if we believe that everything, good

or bad, comes from God then know that there is no bad at all. God is pure and nothing impure (bad) can come from him. Life is a process to learn this and a journey to experience this union. the so called awareness process or purification process is looked on as a distruction of evil. actually it is just a move from one phase to another. a thing which is good for me can be bad for you and vise versa. GOod and bad is relative and is termed only as per the situation. In reality there is only Good as everything is GOD. this learning is an individual process which gets reflected on to the group. Once we get tuned in the right frequency everything will become good and appear also good...all the best. abhimanyu -------------------------prasnopanishad says'those who have only virtuous acts "punya", they go to heaven and those who acquired only sins "papa", go to hell and those who

have both will enter into the bhuloka that one can redeem oneself from the clutches of sins "papa" and increase the percentage of virtuous actions "punya" or sins "papa" and feel the effects of it. This is the world of good and evil. Yv says' lokam ca punya papanam, therefore god destroys evil on land when it becomes impossible otherwise periodically he would be destroying the evil on installment basis through one or the other agencies.Nobody can totally escape the sin or pain or evil on this earth and therefore so long we live on earth we have to go with the pairs of opposites "dvandvas" and with the knowledge of vedanta and the relevant practises of yoga we should mend ourselves and raise ourselves.esha upadesah esha vedopanishad.Pain and sorrow "duhkha" is an opportunity to raise ourselves and if some evil is not present, danger is never thought of or fought with. It is Dharma and God that has made it conveniently like that. Work, Worship

and Wisdom(www) is the formula of happy life. Always be happy. this is upadesa of Lord Krishna to us all.prabhakar-------------------------First of all I tender my apology as what I am adding below is not a specific reply to question asked. Still, first I read mail of group next I item I happened to read was through following email received from Spiritual Group <sadhaka >,The mail is not exact reply but provides a substratum for answer. I felt thrilled as Lord sent me this email in continuity of email. AND THUS WANTED TO SHARE SAME.Shree Hari:12th January, 2008, SaturdayPaush Shukla Chaturthi, Vikram Samvat 2064, Shanivar When you apply soap and scrub your body while taking a bath / shower, at that time while the soap lather is on your body, how do you look? Do you

look bad ? Even if you look bad, you know in your mind that "I am really no that bad." In your mind you are clear that it is due to the lather from the soap that on the surface this body looks like that, but in reality it is not like that. Similarly, even if you see the worst of worst criminals, then too it should come to your mind that superficially it appears like is he a criminal, but within, he is a part of God (ray of God's consciousness). By wearing black clothes, can a man become black? A man is what His Soul is. Similarly goodness and badness in a person is in the inner faculties, but there is no change in God's consciousness (Soul). On one side is a realized Soul, a lover of God, a great siddha; while another is a criminal, a butcher, a thief, etc. but in both these beings, there is no difference in the essence of God. Only the one who loves God, is facing towards God's consciousness. Therefore while behaving properly in worldly

relationships, the spiritual aspirant's sight must only be on God's consciousness. The one whose sight remains at all times on that very essence, that God Consciousness, is called a man of equal, impartial, objective vision "samadarshi". ................................................"hare krishnaP.K.LAMBA---------------------------- "Paul Ponniah." <shinyrozario > wrote:> > My understanding is that all goods things come from> GOD and the> destruction of evil too, as stated in the Gita. Even> after the> destruction of the evil, the evil continues to grow> more and more. Why? Why was man made to live or to> die as experienced now?> Thank you,> Paul Ponniah.> > , Madan kaura> <madan_kaura> wrote:> >> > Shree Hari> >> > Ram Ram> >> > Thank you all for your contribution to the> Gita-talk group. Many> are contributing through reading, some by raising> questions and some> by responding to the questions. The group has> created new enthusiasm> and interest in Gitaji for the inspiration to many.> The year 2007> has been specially good, the membership in the> Gita-talk group has> increased by .... , certainly would like to keep up> this momentum.> >> > Given that everyone is so busy in today's life> style, the e-mail> volume has increased tremendously and many are> having difficulty in> dealing with the e-mail. Due to lack of time, some> may

delete the> message without reading it. Believe, we can all help> to reduce the> burden by focusing our precise questions and> responses specifically> on Gita related subjects only. The moderators will> appreciate your> following the guidelines below:> >> > GUIDELINES:> > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas> clarify their doubts> related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses> which further> clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be> posted.> > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other> scriptures to> substantiate your response.> > 3. Kindly do not include personal feelings,> opinions, beliefs etc.> > 4. Please make your responses concise and to the> point. (Up to> twenty line maximum, if possible).> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at> hand

only.> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites> or other> organizations.> > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information> such as phone> number, address etc.> > 8. Please do not address the response to a> particular individual> since the message is going to the entire group.> > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may> not be posted.> > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the> posting, if> content is unclear or not appropriate for> distribution to the group.> > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the> novices, youth,> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the> use to Sanskrit> words only and provide the English word with> Sanskrit bracketed> wherever possible.> >> > Warm Regards,> > MODERATOR> >> >

Ram Ram> ________Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs

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Free will is illusion of choice. You will only choose from what is given in the need and objects and method of selection. All dependent variables or choices are in fact governed by a system of independent variable.

Truth is non relative and unchanging, but perspectives in empiricism differ. For it to be understood by a layman, if a goal is kept low and two people want to achieve it, it will be a conflict because both of them will see it opposite to each other. But if the goal is kept high that none of both can get it alone, it will be a sum of two prespectives into one whole perspective, and two people will then make team and use system for achiveing it. Truth (summation of perspectives) will remove conflicts and produce unity of purpose. Truth is absense of relativity and all people know and see things exactly in one form. Truth is therefore neither a knowledge, specialization nor information. Albert Einstein spen his life studying relativity, and ended up with concept of truth.

 

veda says....

Unreal to real (astaya to satya)

Death to immortality (mritu to amaratva)

darkness to light

 

with differing perspectives, conflicts will certainly rise. Power is not in hands of holder of weapon but who stands at high altitude. From high altitude, he can see sum of perspectives, and by standing in pit with best of weapon will not know whom and which direction to send it. Does not Bhagwat Gita says it in unification of consciousness (man mana bhav mad bhakto....)?

 

If a high target is not set, the people who are not conceptually sound in the spiritual knowledge will ruin the society by low goal conflicts. Illusion of choice is desirable till they get a maturity to realize wholeness of truth. regardsK G Misra

-

Bagavan in Geetha in battle field tell Arjuna to wage war, though Arjuna feels it is a sin in killing relatives and friends. Bagavan clears his doubts in Geetha. Bagavan even reminds Arjuna of the bad deeds that Duryodhana did. That the evil is not to be spared. In Upanashids it is said about good and bad. Prayachita Dharma, Apadha Dharma etc. What one sees here on earth is cause and effect. Manasha Karma (Mind thought), Kayaka Karma (Action done by body) etc. So a person Karma only causes death and birth again and again. One gets what he deserves according to his past karmas. The karmas are 3, Agami, Prarabtha, Santhitha. It is not anyone's decision to think this is right or wrong. The rules are framed and 33 crores gods are deputed. It is not stand point of GOD or Human to decide which action, thought are right or wrong. The work you do over 30 days earns you a set amount of salary. What you earn by these Karmas, you get form (Birth as human/animal) and you go in designated pattern of life. Millions dont get association with truth (Sat Sangh). Very rich ones dont have time for worship and devotion of God (Bakthi). Many live selfish lives. Many seniors wants to live with Kith and kin, inspite of seeing aged people around them passing off. All this is from ones earning of past and present birth. Bagavan has clearly said, that HE will give anything but not Bakthi, which ones has to cultivate by his tears of love for GOD and the whole Prakuthi. Reading saints life one can understand easily. It is the choice of one to take life rightiously. Budha had evrything as a king. His contemplation that something is more than this world, lead to divinity. Purandaradas was Nava (9) Koti (Crore) narayana as title. His abanded in a second when he realised. Lately there was one person Known as Pattinathar (person who owned whole village and mass of wealth) left everthing behind suddenly on realisation. Take for instance a person in bed disabled and facing death, be given all 1000 Ruppee curreny bundles to size of his bed, what does it matters to him. In fact he will be killed by others to take that money. We see people dieing and their relative cry to the heavens. Just few days later everyone is on their way of life.

Seek Sat Sangh, form a group, make Nava Rasa Bakthi as Prahald said atleast after age 60. One need not go deep into scripts to begin with. the Slogam, " Vasudeva Sutham Devam----" at end it gives Pala sruthi saying that "Koti Jalam Papam Vinasyathi" means crore jalma sins vanishes. Say Vilvastakam____ "Tridhalam Triguna Karam______" and get Shiva lok. Choice is one` s decision.

 

On another note, one can see evil grow because at the level of mind and intellect the evil never dies. Indra` s son Kaka Asura (took form as crow) and came to peck mother Seetha` s breast. But Rama let him go. This fellow never realised his mistake as such had to be born as a big crane bird which was torn apart by Sri Krishna. Good ascends to higher level. But bad deeds remains on earth to suffer. Because of population growth the volume of bad is easly identified. There was so many demons (Asuras) in the past killed by Bagavan. There was Devas also due to their misdeeds came to earth to suffer. Ex: The 2 Gandervas Nala and Manigopa from Ganderva Loka came to this earth as trees in Sri Krishn` s garden. Man can avoid being born again by spending his time in rightious ways. The ways the Sastra prescribe and not by anyone on earth.

B.Sathyanarayan

 

-

INORDER TO ERADICATE THE EVILS IN OUR COUNTRY, IN EACH SCHOOL/INSTITUTION THE ESSENCE OF GITA NEED TO BE TAUGHT AND A PART OF DAILY HABIT BY ALL PEOPLE.

REGARDS

NPANDA

-

 

Why evil continues?

 

So that GOODNESS can indeed look good. Without dualities life on earth ceases to exist. Day and night, love and hate, god and bad, sorrow and pleasure, gain and loss, sickness and health, young and old, life and death, angel and devil,

snata and scuze, heaven and hell, smart and stupid, black and white,

transient and permanent....

without these dualities, life on earth ceases to exist.

 

That is why Lord's promise in Gita is that He will redeem the one who has realized/surrendered and He will alss continuously return the

unresolved wicked souls (asurAs) back into same disposition, until the time they realize their true nature and turn towards God. That is why, it does not matter how wicked they were, once they turn to God, they are instantaneously saved. The corresponding verses are cited here:

 

These cruel, hateful and worst of men, I perpetually hurl them

into demonic wombs in this world (in the cycles of births and deaths) ( BG xvi-19).

 

Having entered a demonic womb, life after life (they take birth with demonic disposition), Oh A-rju-na, these deluded beings fail to attain Me.

Thus, they sink to the worst possible depths (xvi-20).

 

Even if a man steeped in evil takes on to My worship with undivided devotion, he must be considered as a saint because, he has taken the right decision (BG IX-30)

 

Readily he becomes righteous and attains everlasting peace.

Oh son of ku-nti, be aware! No devotee of Mine is ever lost.

(Instantaneous transformation, like when we light a lamp in a dark corner) (BG IX-31).

 

Oh son of pR-tha, whoever take refuge in Me, even men of sinful birth, women, traders or laborers (whom society may reject or consider ineligible for redemption); they all attain the supreme goal. (Whoever surrenders to Me, will attain the supreme goal, irrespective of their birth, gender, or position in the society) (BG IX-32).

 

Abandoning all (other) dha-rmas, take refuge in Me alone;

I will liberate you from all sins; do not grieve! (BG xviii-66).

 

K.S. tAtAchAr

 

-

On Jan 14, 2008 12:40 AM, Bharathi <> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe all, This is my humble opinion sharing with you all based on what I understood and heard from others.

 

Yes, All the things which we perceive as good or bad (its only thro our own perspective that we define certain things as Good and certain things as Bad..but from Absolute perspective, there is neither good nor bad.Regarding the life and death also, from absolute perspective, its only the body that dies which is anyway the temporary aspect of materialist worlds and becomes one with the earth after the body dies.

But to understand as to why this happens, even the start of the life with the body and the perishing of the body, we need to understand the basic underlying principles of Veda ( the Upanishads came about with the ideas from veda, then Bhagavadgita gives us the central theme of the upanishands in more simpler ways).

 

 

In many religions, the people talk about the final result of all the cause of this world and why it happens and etc etc.. In hinduism, in VEDA, if you go to the source.. it gives us different methodologies to arrive at that BRAHMAN or SUPREME. It gives us the starting step to proceed with 'JIGNASA' self inquiry and then start to understand who yo are first of all and then you will know the next steps slowly by your own understanding. Do not worry of what the end result is, but do the SELF ENQUIRY within yourself based on whatever you know already about life and experience and spirituality. Contemplate silently in your mind and heart as to WHO YOU ARE?

 

 

Yes, all these discussions and reading and conversations will definitely help us in our own enquiry process as a strating step but until you comes out with your own understanding for your self, the ideas behind these questions will not be completely clear. Havings said this, these are the three steps, we can start with.

 

1. reading/discussions..etc etc

2. trying to understand what the meaning is behind all these readings.

3. contemplating on the higher supreme/divinity (based on your own understanding of life and experiences as of now).

4. These abouve three steps will only lead you to the starting step of self-inquiry and from there, you understand the process of the existence of life slowly.

 

 

 

 

--- " Paul Ponniah. " <shinyrozario@ > wrote:> > My understanding is that all goods things come from> GOD and the> destruction of evil too, as stated in the Gita. Even> after the> destruction of the evil, the evil continues to grow

> more and more. Why? Why was man made to live or to> die as experienced now?> Thank you,> Paul Ponniah.> >

@grou ps.com, Madan kaura

 

> <madan_kaura@ ...>> wrote:> >> > Shree Hari> >> > Ram Ram> >> > Thank you all for your contribution to the> Gita-talk group. Many

> are contributing through reading, some by raising> questions and some> by responding to the questions. The group has> created new enthusiasm> and interest in Gitaji for the inspiration to many.

> The year 2007> has been specially good, the membership in the> Gita-talk group has> increased by .... , certainly would like to keep up> this momentum.> >> > Given that everyone is so busy in today's life

> style, the e-mail> volume has increased tremendously and many are> having difficulty in> dealing with the e-mail. Due to lack of time, some> may delete the> message without reading it. Believe, we can all help

> to reduce the> burden by focusing our precise questions and> responses specifically> on Gita related subjects only. The moderators will> appreciate your> following the guidelines below:

> >> > GUIDELINES:> > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas> clarify their doubts> related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses> which further> clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be

> posted.> > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other> scriptures to> substantiate your response.> > 3. Kindly do not include personal feelings,> opinions, beliefs etc.

> > 4. Please make your responses concise and to the> point. (Up to> twenty line maximum, if possible).> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at> hand only.> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites

> or other> organizations.> > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information> such as phone> number, address etc.> > 8. Please do not address the response to a> particular individual

> since the message is going to the entire group.> > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may> not be posted.> > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the> posting, if

> content is unclear or not appropriate for> distribution to the group.> > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the> novices, youth,> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the

> use to Sanskrit> words only and provide the English word with> Sanskrit bracketed> wherever possible.> >> > Warm Regards,> > MODERATOR> >> > Ram Ram

[Guest guest]

Some broken thoughts that might in some way be a response to the question asked:

 

When we go to the airport or train station we go there to avail of a means of

transportation to a destination.

But if we go to the airport or the railway platform and start to live our life

there instead of taking the plane or train then the questions that occur to us

because of our living at the airport or platform - are such questions valid? To

my mind the answer is no!

 

Similarly human life, entire creation and the galaxies around us are the

creation of God, and God planted the seed in us which will help us to find Him

and become one with Him again. For many different reasons instead of focusing

on finding Him, our real home and destination, we are getting lost in

distractions (Maya). The good and evil we see around us are such distractions

with one difference that the good when conducted with the right intent will take

us on the path to Him but if we start getting distracted by the evil around us

then it will take us longer to find the way to Him. I believe God has made

allowance for us to get distracted too so we continue our lives as we do.

 

God has created these distractions to test us, test our abilities, our desire

for Him and He waits eternally.....but I am sure many are reaching and have

reached Him by taking the plane or train (or bus for that matter) .......but we

are still at the airport or platform getting involved with the events happening

here and becoming distracted.

 

As for death, it is not truly death but a logical conclusion of the physical

decline of the body - the body dies but the the being in us never dies. When

the body dies it is time for God to give us another body as He deems fit. Death

is seen as such in our minds because we mistakenly believe that we are the body.

 

This does not mean that I am sharing with you what I experience (but only what I

believe). Mere knowledge of something is not the same as its experience.

Reading, writing and talking about something

can never be a substitute for the real thing.

 

Sri Aurobindo once said: Faith fights while knowledge is withheld.

 

Salutations to those who light the way and esp. those who have gone before us.

 

Biraj Khosla

 

---

 

I am not to defend or create a new concept, I am just analyze what is known for

discussion and the perception of the good, the ultimate good and Truth.

Good is not dependent on the position or possession in life. Good is good for

all and does not bear on the present socio-economic effect. The present

socio-economic and political scenario is never focused

on the ideal good. The deceptive, jealousy, anger, caste bred politics, loss of

self-control on emotional issues from a corrupt mind. Corrupt minds corrupts

community, society, family and corrupts religion.

The dogma is God made Man to worship HIM. Man made corrupt thinking for his

selfish motives. There is nothing absolute in all the facts.

 

Humans don't need to burn self to feel what burning is, you need not kill to

understand what killing is, the sixth sense of perception will understand the

good ness if we live as innocent children.

Only time set matters straight if God wills.

 

With good intentions and search,

Paul Ponniah.

 

---

The question who is managing us. There was a saint Namalwar who sat in a tree

thrush in tender age. Never took food, water and remained in silence for years.

Everyone was thrilled. This place can be seen today in south india in one

Vaishavite temple among Nava Thirupathi. After years came another saint saw this

grown boy and asked in Tamil, " Ethai Thindru Enge Kadakum " . Means who is

managing all this. Namalwar replied in tamil, " Athai thindru ange kindakkum " .

Means self managed system. This self managed system operates on one` s deeds and

action, thought etc. That is why it said, " Aham Bramasmi " . Means you are the

embodiment of that Brahman. Then why all this wrong things? Your karma forms

layers of Maya and makes you go the wrong ways until your get into Sat Sangh or

guided by Guru. Droupathi laughed at Duryadana when he fell into water mirage.

That karma lead to her be laughed at, while being disrobed. Nobody manages this.

Cause and effect. But one can know from scriptures and saint's life that such

troubles are saved by GOD Himself and the only time that HE comes. Read Gajendra

Moksha. The elephant Gajendra was a king in earlier birth did egoistic action on

a saint and had to be born as elephant. But as a king his noble deeds gave in

his elephant` s birth lead him to Bhagavan when he cried for GOD at time of his

death. Just like ajamila etc.

B.Sathyanarayan

---

 

 

 

 

-

" Pratap Bhatt " <pratapbhatt

 

Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:07 AM

Re: Why Evil continues to Grow? Why was Man Made to

Live or to Die as Experienced Now?

 

 

> Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> When God is understood experientially as One Totality

> of our Being, not just an individual somewhere who is

> managing us, then such questions are fully answered.

> Of course such questions should be asked too, but then

> our minds should be open to investigate the nature of

> God. Such a question as why God allows evil things to

> continue, assumes some image/belief about God as

> separate being from being of ourselves!

> If we stay open to all possibilities, God is deeply

> understood as TOTALITY of our Being which we all

> share. There is not a trace of personal, individual

> thing in this world from the beginning. Nothing can

> ever exists in isolation.

> Now live from this understanding in daily life that

> all of us are together(not as individual) God, then

> question of who does what to whom is not a question.

> There are apparantly evil acts coming from individuals

> due to not truly knowing " themselves " and God. Such

> acts are corrected from time to time and only truth

> prevails just as promised in Geeta(Yada yadahi

> dharmasya....)

> Good and evil acts are only from individualistic

> thinking. If we live righteously per Geeta teaching

> only acts that are needed to celebrate Life will be

> performed by us!

> Namaskar, Pratap

>

> ---

> sai ram,

>

> if we believe that everything, good or bad, comes from God then know that

> there is no bad at all. God is pure and nothing impure (bad) can come from

> him. Life is a process to learn this and a journey to experience this

> union.

> the so called awareness process or purification process is looked on as a

> distruction of evil. actually it is just a move from one phase to another.

> a thing which is good for me can be bad for you and vise versa. GOod and

> bad is relative and is termed only as per the situation. In reality there

> is only Good as everything is GOD.

> this learning is an individual process which gets reflected on to the

> group. Once we get tuned in the right frequency everything will become

> good and appear also good...

>

> all the best.

> abhimanyu

>

> ---

> prasnopanishad says'

> those who have only virtuous acts " punya " , they go to heaven and those who

> acquired only sins " papa " , go to hell and those who have both will enter

> into the bhuloka that one can redeem oneself from the clutches of sins

> " papa " and increase the percentage of virtuous actions " punya " or sins

> " papa " and feel the effects of it. This is the world of good and evil.

>

> Yv says' lokam ca punya papanam, therefore god destroys evil on land when

> it becomes impossible otherwise periodically he would be destroying the

> evil on installment basis through one or the other agencies.

>

> Nobody can totally escape the sin or pain or evil on this earth and

> therefore so long we live on earth we have to go with the pairs of

> opposites " dvandvas " and with the knowledge of vedanta and the relevant

> practises of yoga we should mend ourselves and raise ourselves.

> esha upadesah esha vedopanishad.

> Pain and sorrow " duhkha " is an opportunity to raise ourselves and if some

> evil is not present, danger is never thought of or fought with.

> It is Dharma and God that has made it conveniently like that.

> Work, Worship and Wisdom(www) is the formula of happy life. Always be

> happy. this is upadesa of Lord Krishna to us all.

> prabhakar

> ---

> First of all I tender my apology as what I am adding below is not a

> specific reply to question asked.

> Still, first I read mail of group next I item I happened to read

> was through following email received from Spiritual Group

> <sadhaka >,

>

> The mail is not exact reply but provides a substratum for answer. I felt

> thrilled as Lord sent me this email in continuity of email. AND

> THUS WANTED TO SHARE SAME.

>

> Shree Hari:

>

> 12th January, 2008, Saturday

> Paush Shukla Chaturthi, Vikram Samvat 2064, Shanivar

>

> When you apply soap and scrub your body while taking a bath / shower, at

> that time while the soap lather is on your body, how do you look? Do you

> look bad ? Even if you look bad, you know in your mind that " I am really

> no that bad. " In your mind you are clear that it is due to the lather from

> the soap that on the surface this body looks like that, but in reality it

> is not like that.

>

> Similarly, even if you see the worst of worst criminals, then too it

> should come to your mind that superficially it appears like is he a

> criminal, but within, he is a part of God (ray of God's consciousness). By

> wearing black clothes, can a man become black? A man is what His Soul is.

> Similarly goodness and badness in a person is in the inner faculties, but

> there is no change in God's consciousness (Soul).

>

> On one side is a realized Soul, a lover of God, a great siddha; while

> another is a criminal, a butcher, a thief, etc. but in both these beings,

> there is no difference in the essence of God. Only the one who loves God,

> is facing towards God's consciousness.

>

> Therefore while behaving properly in worldly relationships, the spiritual

> aspirant's sight must only be on God's consciousness. The one whose sight

> remains at all times on that very essence, that God Consciousness, is

> called a man of equal, impartial, objective vision " samadarshi " .

> ................................................ "

>

> hare krishna

> P.K.LAMBA

> ---

>

> --- " Paul Ponniah. " <shinyrozario wrote:

>

>>

>> My understanding is that all goods things come from

>> GOD and the

>> destruction of evil too, as stated in the Gita. Even

>> after the

>> destruction of the evil, the evil continues to grow

>> more and more. Why? Why was man made to live or to

>> die as experienced now?

>> Thank you,

>> Paul Ponniah.

>>

>> , Madan kaura

>> <madan_kaura

>> wrote:

>> >

>> > Shree Hari

>> >

>> > Ram Ram

>> >

>> > Thank you all for your contribution to the

>> Gita-talk group. Many

>> are contributing through reading, some by raising

>> questions and some

>> by responding to the questions. The group has

>> created new enthusiasm

>> and interest in Gitaji for the inspiration to many.

>> The year 2007

>> has been specially good, the membership in the

>> Gita-talk group has

>> increased by .... , certainly would like to keep up

>> this momentum.

>> >

>> > Given that everyone is so busy in today's life

>> style, the e-mail

>> volume has increased tremendously and many are

>> having difficulty in

>> dealing with the e-mail. Due to lack of time, some

>> may delete the

>> message without reading it. Believe, we can all help

>> to reduce the

>> burden by focusing our precise questions and

>> responses specifically

>> on Gita related subjects only. The moderators will

>> appreciate your

>> following the guidelines below:

>> >

>> > GUIDELINES:

>> > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas

>> clarify their doubts

>> related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses

>> which further

>> clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be

>> posted.

>> > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other

>> scriptures to

>> substantiate your response.

>> > 3. Kindly do not include personal feelings,

>> opinions, beliefs etc.

>> > 4. Please make your responses concise and to the

>> point. (Up to

>> twenty line maximum, if possible).

>> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at

>> hand only.

>> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites

>> or other

>> organizations.

>> > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information

>> such as phone

>> number, address etc.

>> > 8. Please do not address the response to a

>> particular individual

>> since the message is going to the entire group.

>> > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may

>> not be posted.

>> > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the

>> posting, if

>> content is unclear or not appropriate for

>> distribution to the group.

>> > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the

>> novices, youth,

>> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the

>> use to Sanskrit

>> words only and provide the English word with

>> Sanskrit bracketed

>> wherever possible.

>> >

>> > Warm Regards,

>> > MODERATOR

>> >

>> > Ram Ram

>>

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________\

____

> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> http://www./r/hs

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Life is like the water/air ways passing on and on in their own way without concern who comes in attachment and what purpose is behind the action or served thereby, nothng of the sort good or bad. It's only human mind and its fear "sanklip-wiklap--which makes one concern with the waves of life. It's HIS play, every soul /Atman is player in this world/prikriti. Veda's/Upanishids/Gita, all explain the aspects of game/travel through atman/body's relation with each other, right from beginning/birth to end/shedding of this outer body again and again. Look within and search for to understand is the goal of every human being. Hari Motwani

 

----------- Question .......

The illustration conveyed by a sadhaka said that to board the train or plane is the purpose. This is the truth. Experience shows that without the ticket you cannot board the plane or train. The desire is there, the direction is there as well, but God did not will it. Is it my fault? Next, in the form of human I am not fit to attain the promised salvation because of some fault of mine or God's? Should the person be demoted to a form less than what he has attained to gain salvation? Does Gita provide any insight into this understanding ?

Flirting thoughts / query,

Paul Ponniah.

 

-----------

 

 

CC: bh_4321Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:10:05 -0800Re: Why Evil continues to Grow? Why was Man Made to Live or to Die as Experienced Now?

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe all, This is my humble opinion sharing with you all based on what I understood and heard from others.

 

Yes, All the things which we perceive as good or bad (its only thro our own perspective that we define certain things as Good and certain things as Bad..but from Absolute perspective, there is neither good nor bad.Regarding the life and death also, from absolute perspective, its only the body that dies which is anyway the temporary aspect of materialist worlds and becomes one with the earth after the body dies.

But to understand as to why this happens, even the start of the life with the body and the perishing of the body, we need to understand the basic underlying principles of Veda ( the Upanishads came about with the ideas from veda, then Bhagavadgita gives us the central theme of the upanishands in more simpler ways).

 

In many religions, the people talk about the final result of all the cause of this world and why it happens and etc etc.. In hinduism, in VEDA, if you go to the source.. it gives us different methodologies to arrive at that BRAHMAN or SUPREME. It gives us the starting step to proceed with 'JIGNASA' self inquiry and then start to understand who yo are first of all and then you will know the next steps slowly by your own understanding. Do not worry of what the end result is, but do the SELF ENQUIRY within yourself based on whatever you know already about life and experience and spirituality. Contemplate silently in your mind and heart as to WHO YOU ARE?

 

Yes, all these discussions and reading and conversations will definitely help us in our own enquiry process as a strating step but until you comes out with your own understanding for your self, the ideas behind these questions will not be completely clear. Havings said this, these are the three steps, we can start with.

1. reading/discussions..etc etc

2. trying to understand what the meaning is behind all these readings.

3. contemplating on the higher supreme/divinity (based on your own understanding of life and experiences as of now).

4. These abouve three steps will only lead you to the starting step of self-inquiry and from there, you understand the process of the existence of life slowly.

 

 

--- "Paul Ponniah." <shinyrozario@ > wrote:> > My understanding is that all goods things come from> GOD and the> destruction of evil too, as stated in the Gita. Even> after the> destruction of the evil, the evil continues to grow> more and more. Why? Why was man made to live or to> die as experienced now?> Thank you,> Paul Ponniah.> > @grou ps.com, Madan kaura> <madan_kaura@ ...>> wrote:> >> > Shree Hari> >> > Ram Ram> >> > Thank you all for your contribution to the> Gita-talk group. Many> are contributing through reading, some by raising> questions and some> by responding to the questions. The group has> created new enthusiasm> and interest in Gitaji for the inspiration to many.> The year 2007> has been specially good, the membership in the> Gita-talk group has> increased by .... , certainly would like to keep up> this momentum.> >> > Given that everyone is so busy in today's life> style, the e-mail> volume has increased tremendously and many are> having difficulty in> dealing with the e-mail. Due to lack of time, some> may delete the> message without reading it. Believe, we can all help> to reduce the> burden by focusing our precise questions and> responses specifically> on Gita related subjects only. The moderators will> appreciate your> following the guidelines below:> >> > GUIDELINES:> > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas> clarify their doubts> related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses> which further> clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be> posted.> > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other> scriptures to> substantiate your response.> > 3. Kindly do not include personal feelings,> opinions, beliefs etc.> > 4. Please make your responses concise and to the> point. (Up to> twenty line maximum, if possible).> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at> hand only.> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites> or other> organizations.> > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information> such as phone> number, address etc.> > 8. Please do not address the response to a> particular individual> since the message is going to the entire group.> > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may> not be posted.> > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the> posting, if> content is unclear or not appropriate for> distribution to the group.> > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the> novices, youth,> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the> use to Sanskrit> words only and provide the English word with> Sanskrit bracketed> wherever possible.> >> > Warm Regards,> > MODERATOR> >> > Ram Ram>

 

*************************************************************8

 

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