Why Disturb God's Plans ?

January 15, 2008

When God plans to execute as per his blue print why disturb the same.

When God descended the first human, it is was clear that the beginning of the end had started, so why to say and do good things ?

Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

January 16, 2008

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

If one tries to know God as described in Gita, one will no doubt discover God as

the Truth of our Existence which is ONE with the Existence of all known and

unknown, sentients, insentients, manifest,

unmanifest. Once the real nature of God is understood, all questions will

evaporate in the light of such knowledge. Such questions arise from the

assumptions, beliefs based on our conditioning of what we have heard, read, and

are told by the society in which we grow up and live. Such beliefs are never

examined.

Upon investigation into nature of God with the grace of God, with help of a

realized Guru, or spiritual friend, or scripture such as Gita, one may discover

that God is not an entity with blue print for everything. God is name we give to

the EXPERIENCE of limitless AWARENESS and joy of just Being which is at the same

time Intelligence and total freedom. God is such freedom at every moment

that cannot be fixed in some distant past and now God is bound by it. Bondage is

only when we identify with our body-mind organism and act as separate

individuals. Look into our own experience of happiness when we say or do good

things, and unhappiness when we

do or say bad things. This is also enough to convince us to realize the truth of

GOd rather than assume such bondage in dispairs!

Namaskar, Pratap

-

All lives are programmed already and do according to their " nature " svabhav.

origin, operation and destruction are just manifest of the program objectives.

good and bad are perception of individual according to their nature " svabhav " .

God is truth which is not relative from one and another. In the same universe,

there are people who see truth in everything, and others who see conflict in

everything.

regards

Krishna Gopal

-

As per Gita, God is not a watchman. God has provided us the guiding principles,

but the free lies within us. It is up to us to do our part, our share. We

can't be irresponsible with the attitude

that the God will take care, etc.

Even the myth that if we do good work, then God will guarantee success, is

wrong.

Five factors determine the outcome of all actions (good or bad) as per Gita:

Timing, doer, tools, how tools are applied and fate/providence.

However, if we do good, ultimately we are better off (because as per Gita no

good deed goes to waste- even if there is no immediate gain). Likewise, even if

we have immediate success with evil,

God will make sure that they will keep coming back to inferior lives.

However, if we turn to God, God is happy to help. It is for our own welfare we

have to do good.

For example we send our kids to college, having brought them ane even paying

tuition. It is child's responsibility to take care of studies, home work,

safety, remain drug free, don't get pregnant or get someone pregnent etc.

K.S. tAtAchAr

-

nsk717

Narayana, Narayana

Gita provides insight into your question " anil nevatia " .We should do

good things only because you can leave the karma phala of the good

deeds but you can't leave the karma phala of the bad deeds and liberate.

i.e. do good deeds and you can liberate easily. This is the only

reason of doing only good deeds. And try to do always only good

deeds.

-

--- anil nevatia <anilkamail wrote:

> When God plans to execute as per his blue print why

> disturb the same.

> When God descended the first human, it is was clear

> that the beginning of the end had started, so why to

> say and do good things ?

>

> Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

January 18, 2008

God's plans are never disturbed, they will continue in their settled system like the ways of light, only human beings have to understand and accept them with settled mind "Asthit Budhi". Then one can enjoy it, other wise it will always be devil's play. Hari Motwani

-----------

who are we disturb the gods'plans?. ultimately our say does not work.

what is ordained, that only takes place. But we should make a sincere prayer that my doing or sankalpa should tally with that of God's. Ordinarily when the plans are in a right direction they would definitely see the fulfilment.

after all, god makes the life style for the beings and despatches them in to the world of action.

we say in our worship sriparamesvaraprityartham when that arpana buddhi is there the success is definite. it is not necessary to think that we interfere into the god's mind.

It is best not to worry, but do the right thing. the result is automatic and unasked for. When we do right thing fully, God cooperates.

subhameva bhavati.

prabhakar

-----------

Interesting message, to know God Gita is one media.

Every culture has its own manifestation of God in its

own sphere being made by the Same God or God Power. He

cannot be different for and bring about a confusion in

Truth. Truth is unique.OK.

Paul Ponniah.

-----------

From: pratapbhattDate: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:03:37 -0800Re: Why Disturb God's Plans ?

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!If one tries to know God as described in Gita, one will no doubt discover God as the Truth of our Existence which is ONE with the Existence of all known and unknown, sentients, insentients, manifest,unmanifest. Once the real nature of God is understood, all questions will evaporate in the light of such knowledge. Such questions arise from the assumptions, beliefs based on our conditioning of what we have heard, read, and are told by the society in which we grow up and live. Such beliefs are never examined. Upon investigation into nature of God with the grace of God, with help of a realized Guru, or spiritual friend, or scripture such as Gita, one may discover that God is not an entity with blue print for everything. God is name we give to the EXPERIENCE of limitless AWARENESS and joy of just Being which is at the same time Intelligence and total freedom. God is such freedom at every momentthat cannot be fixed in some distant past and now God is bound by it. Bondage is only when we identify with our body-mind organism and act as separate individuals. Look into our own experience of happiness when we say or do good things, and unhappiness when wedo or say bad things. This is also enough to convince us to realize the truth of GOd rather than assume such bondage in dispairs! Namaskar, Pratap-------------------------All lives are programmed already and do according to their "nature" svabhav. origin, operation and destruction are just manifest of the program objectives. good and bad are perception of individual according to their nature "svabhav". God is truth which is not relative from one and another. In the same universe, there are people who see truth in everything, and others who see conflict in everything. regardsKrishna Gopal-------------------------As per Gita, God is not a watchman. God has provided us the guiding principles, but the free lies within us. It is up to us to do our part, our share. We can't be irresponsible with the attitudethat the God will take care, etc. Even the myth that if we do good work, then God will guarantee success, is wrong.Five factors determine the outcome of all actions (good or bad) as per Gita:Timing, doer, tools, how tools are applied and fate/providence.However, if we do good, ultimately we are better off (because as per Gita no good deed goes to waste- even if there is no immediate gain). Likewise, even if we have immediate success with evil,God will make sure that they will keep coming back to inferior lives.However, if we turn to God, God is happy to help. It is for our own welfare we have to do good.For example we send our kids to college, having brought them ane even paying tuition. It is child's responsibility to take care of studies, home work, safety, remain drug free, don't get pregnant or get someone pregnent etc.K.S. tAtAchAr-------------------------nsk717Narayana, NarayanaGita provides insight into your question "anil nevatia".We should dogood things only because you can leave the karma phala of the gooddeeds but you can't leave the karma phala of the bad deeds and liberate.i.e. do good deeds and you can liberate easily. This is the onlyreason of doing only good deeds. And try to do always only gooddeeds.---------------------------- anil nevatia <anilkamail > wrote:> When God plans to execute as per his blue print why> disturb the same.> When God descended the first human, it is was clear> that the beginning of the end had started, so why to> say and do good things ? > > Does Gita provide any insight into this query ? Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix" Check it out.

January 18, 2008

Hari OM!

What is the difference between GOD and Man???

GOD + EGO = Man

MAN - EGO = GOD.

We always consider GOD has an entity which is sperate from us. that is why this whole

issue comes. GOD does not have any blue print for any body??? YOu and I create our

own Blue print (I refere to the small " i " Mr. EGO} not the Big " I " . So all these issues

dissolved if the right attitude and thinking comes... for that also Blessing is very much required

Jai Poojya Gurudev!

With Love & OM!

Krishna Prasad

---------

To believe that God has surely a plan and that Plan further extends to every detail of our lives is entirely unwarranted and undesirable. It can not be either established or refuted definitively. Therefore a true seeker of truth will not ACCEPT this.

It is true that these are mainly acts of faith rather than reason. But many perople in Hinduism and in other faiths too believe the opposite to be true. And yet, with belief in human free will, and non-determinism and part determinism, achieve great spiritual success.

Faith in fatalism is one of the greatest cultural ailments that Hinduism has to rid itself of for human progress.

P. K. Siddharth

---------

Hello Thinkers,

The following gives reason for my speculation based on

the your statements.

1 God is very much disturbed like a father who feels pained when his children suffer, and searches for the relief. So does God.

2.The word GOD is in the common Noun and can be applied to any one, anything, if he has more or little power or strength. Failure in power to do deeds expected or imagined is lost then the God becomes only past history.

3. If good and bad are only perception then the truth of pain and poverty is false, and man becomes insensible and living is imaginary, which is untrue, for we live and experience pain, joy, hunger and feast and all the paradox.

4.If Karma was real then nothing in nature will ever change, for what is it is because it has to be is.

Very confusing thoughts because we are in a merry go round, with no standing on starting or finishing events. WITH ALL THIS THOUGHT I AM IN WANT?

Goodwill to all,

Paul Ponniah.

---------

On 1/18/08, hari Motwani <habmeds wrote:

God's plans are never disturbed, they will continue in their settled system like the ways of light, only human beings have to understand and accept them with settled mind " Asthit Budhi " . Then one can enjoy it, other wise it will always be devil's play. Hari Motwani

-----------

who are we disturb the gods'plans?. ultimately our say does not work. what is ordained, that only takes place. But we should make a sincere prayer that my doing or sankalpa should tally with that of God's. Ordinarily when the plans are in a right direction they would definitely see the fulfilment. after all, god makes the life style for the beings and despatches them in to the world of action. we say in our worship sriparamesvaraprityartham when that arpana buddhi is there the success is definite. it is not necessary to think that we interfere into the god's mind.

It is best not to worry, but do the right thing. the result is automatic and unasked for. When we do right thing fully, God cooperates. subhameva bhavati. prabhakar -----------

Interesting message, to know God Gita is one media. Every culture has its own manifestation of God in its own sphere being made by the Same God or God Power. He cannot be different for and bring about a confusion in Truth. Truth is unique.OK.

Paul Ponniah.

-----------

From:

pratapbhattDate: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:03:37 -0800Re: Why Disturb God's Plans ?

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!If one tries to know God as described in Gita, one will no doubt discover God as the Truth of our Existence which is ONE with the Existence of all known and unknown, sentients, insentients, manifest,

unmanifest. Once the real nature of God is understood, all questions will evaporate in the light of such knowledge. Such questions arise from the assumptions, beliefs based on our conditioning of what we have heard, read, and are told by the society in which we grow up and live. Such beliefs are never examined. Upon investigation into nature of God with the grace of God, with help of a realized Guru, or spiritual friend, or scripture such as Gita, one may discover that God is not an entity with blue print for everything. God is name we give to the EXPERIENCE of limitless AWARENESS and joy of just Being which is at the same time Intelligence and total freedom. God is such freedom at every moment

that cannot be fixed in some distant past and now God is bound by it. Bondage is only when we identify with our body-mind organism and act as separate individuals. Look into our own experience of happiness when we say or do good things, and unhappiness when we

do or say bad things. This is also enough to convince us to realize the truth of GOd rather than assume such bondage in dispairs! Namaskar, Pratap-------------------------

All lives are programmed already and do according to their " nature " svabhav. origin, operation and destruction are just manifest of the program objectives. good and bad are perception of individual according to their nature " svabhav " . God is truth which is not relative from one and another. In the same universe, there are people who see truth in everything, and others who see conflict in everything. regardsKrishna Gopal-------------------------

As per Gita, God is not a watchman. God has provided us the guiding principles, but the free lies within us. It is up to us to do our part, our share. We can't be irresponsible with the attitudethat the God will take care, etc. Even the myth that if we do good work, then God will guarantee success, is wrong.Five factors determine the outcome of all actions (good or bad) as per Gita:Timing, doer, tools, how tools are applied and fate/providence.

However, if we do good, ultimately we are better off (because as per Gita no good deed goes to waste- even if there is no immediate gain). Likewise, even if we have immediate success with evil,God will make sure that they will keep coming back to inferior lives.

However, if we turn to God, God is happy to help. It is for our own welfare we have to do good.For example we send our kids to college, having brought them ane even paying tuition. It is child's responsibility to take care of studies, home work, safety, remain drug free, don't get pregnant or get someone pregnent etc.

K.S. tAtAchAr-------------------------nsk717Narayana, NarayanaGita provides insight into your question " anil nevatia " .We should do

good things only because you can leave the karma phala of the gooddeeds but you can't leave the karma phala of the bad deeds and liberate.i.e. do good deeds and you can liberate easily. This is the onlyreason of doing only good deeds. And try to do always only good

deeds.---------------------------- anil nevatia <anilkamail

> wrote:> When God plans to execute as per his blue print why> disturb the same.> When God descended the first human, it is was clear> that the beginning of the end had started, so why to

> say and do good things ? > > Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

January 19, 2008

Shree Hari Ram Ram Priya Sadhaka, Prasana ke liye dhanyavad! In his discourses, Swamiji Maharaj has expressed a very different viewpoint: If it were true that the blue print is already made then the human life surely loses its meaning and purpose. Gurus and spiritual teachers are not required anymore, do's and don’ts as spelled out in the scriptures will not serve any usefulness either. Certainly, one has a part to play, as the Gitaji (Verse 2/47) says: "Your have the right (choice or freedom) to do action only, but never to the fruit thereof; Let not the fruit of action be your object, nor let your attachment be to inaction". The reason that we do not have choice of fruit is that many factors outside of our control (prarabhda) influence the outcome of actions. God does not interfere with our independence of being able to choose actions. He also does not interfere with the fruits of actions as is explained in Gitaji Verse (5/14): na'datte kasyacit papam, na cai 'va sukrtam vibuh ajnanena 'vrtam jnanam, tena muhyanti jantavah Meaning: Neither the sense of doer-ship nor the nature of actions does the Lord determine for the mankind, nor does He link the actions with their fruits. But it is the personal nature alone that impacts. Now, on the question of "why should we do good actions"? . At the ordinary level, for our existence, consistently we are taking things from the world, we are indebted to the world, as a good citizen we must pay off our debt by working unselfishly. . As explained in Gitaji (Verse 3/9) - "The world is bound by actions other than those performed for the sake of

sacrifice or (Yajna); do therefore, O son of Kunti (Arjuna), perform all actions for that sake (for sacrifice alone), free from attachment". . Out of His mercy we have been granted the rare human birth for the single and the only purpose of realizing God, by not paying attention, we will miss the golden opportunity to attain this goal. Goswami Tulsidasji says in Ramayana: “Kabahuka kari karuna nar dehi, deta isa binu hetu sanehi” Meaning: Rarely, does God, who loves the Jiva without any self interest, graciously bestows on it the human form. . Lord Krishna also says in Gitaji (Verses - 18/45 & 46): "Each man devoted to his own duty

attains perfection. How can one, devoted to his own duty, attain perfection, listen of that now. He from Whom all beings emanate and by Whom all this is pervaded, by worshipping Him through performance of his own duty, man attains perfection". Therefore, it is a must that we do good actions but have to let go the doership of actions. Ram Ram Humble pranam! A sadhakaanil nevatia <anilkamail wrote: When God plans to execute as per his blue print why disturb the same. When God descended the first human, it is was clear that the beginning of the end had started, so why to say and do good things ? Does Gita provide any insight

into this query ?

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

January 19, 2008

" na'datte kasyacit papam, na cai 'va sukrtam vibuh

ajnanena 'vrtam jnanam, tena muhyanti jantavah "

Meaning:

Neither the sense of doer-ship nor the nature of actions does the Lord determine

for the mankind, nor does He link the actions with their fruits. But it is the

personal nature alone that impacts.

Please note the verse you quoted here is 5/15 and not 5/14. But your

translation has elements from 5/14. Thus, I have reproduced 5/14 and 5/15, as

well as translation.

I have noted that we don't need to add anything to Gita, other than

some limited explanations here and there. Gita read as such makes

sense more than any explanation! We need scholars only to point us to

right verses plus limited clarification, if needed and move away!!!

na ka-rtR-tvam na ka-rmA-Ni

lo-ka-sya sR-ja-ti pra-bhuh |

na ka-rma pha-la-sam-yo-gam

sva-bhA-va-stu pra-va-rta-te ||V-14||

5-14: (Arjuna! Know that) God does not enjoin people to act,

nor does God create karma (activities), or the associated rewards of karma. But

all these arise from nature.

nA-da-tte ka-sya-chi-tpA-pam

na chai-va su-kR-tam vi-bhuh |

a-jn^A-ne-nA-vR-tam jn^A-nam

te-na mu-hya-nti ja-nta-vah ||V-15||

5-15: Furthermore, nor does God partake of anyone's virtue or evil

(which are simply consequence of actions performed by people

in this and past lives). Indeed, knowledge is enveloped by ignorance, thereby

people are deluded (and mistakenly link actions to God).

K.S. tAtAchAr

---------

Nice rendition by Krishna Prasadji. A slight alteration, may give a better face

of explanation.

Man + right ego (ego centered on Self ) = God

Man - wrong ego (ego on other things) = God

Ego (aham) is inseparable constituent of any Self - Soul - and to imagine a Self

- Soul - without it, is negating the very Self - Soul.

God is not a reversible entity but man only defies to the level of Godhood by

right knowledge, right faith and right conduct; or continues in birth and death

by wrong knowledge, wrong faith and wrong conduct

Thanks for providing an opportunity to dwell on Adhyaathmic subject.

Welcome for any further clarification.

Truth is of Kevalin and the rest are mine.

Wishing you all the best for the early dawn of Samykathva.

Yours brotherly,

Sreepalan

---------

--- Krishna Prasad wrote:

> Hari OM!

>

> What is the difference between GOD and Man???

>

> GOD + EGO = Man

> MAN - EGO = GOD.

>

> We always consider GOD has an entity which is

> sperate from us. that is why

> this whole

> issue comes. GOD does not have any blue print for

> any body??? YOu and I

> create our

> own Blue print (I refere to the small " i " Mr. EGO}

> not the Big " I " . So all

> these issues

> dissolved if the right attitude and thinking

> comes... for that also Blessing

> is very much required

>

> Jai Poojya Gurudev!

>

> With Love & OM!

>

> Krishna Prasad

anil nevatia anilkamail wrote: When God plans to

execute as per his blue print why disturb the same. When God descended the first

human, it is was clear that the beginning of the end had started, so why to say

and do good things ? Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

January 22, 2008

Namaskar!

my master is verily a great scientist. The whole creation, HIS SKILL only, so perfectly planned that no alteration have ever been needed. Look at your own body (everyone's the same is) and see how perfectly acomplished it is! Has any doctor ever said, no this limb would have been fitted there and that one over here? Imagine the shape of embryo in the womb, who plans, where to fit and why,everything remarkable. Chapter 15 of GITA "PURSHOUTAM YOG", Lord have clearly mentioned the Prikrti like the inverted Banyan three having roots in the plans of the CREATOR. Who can disturb HIS plans, no body. Let's all pray, O my Lord, all your plans be fulfilled, me and we all shall understand thou Leela and be happy with it. PHOOL BHI TERAY--KANTEY BHI TERAY. We are your ignorant child, Bless us with your love & Blessings. Let's bow to his LEELA. Hari Motwani

From: rkrishp99Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:07:08 -0600Re: Why Disturb God's Plans ?

Hari OM!

What is the difference between GOD and Man???

GOD + EGO = Man

MAN - EGO = GOD.

We always consider GOD has an entity which is sperate from us. that is why this whole

issue comes. GOD does not have any blue print for any body??? YOu and I create our

own Blue print (I refere to the small "i" Mr. EGO} not the Big "I". So all these issues

dissolved if the right attitude and thinking comes... for that also Blessing is very much required

Jai Poojya Gurudev!

With Love & OM!

Krishna Prasad

---------

To believe that God has surely a plan and that Plan further extends to every detail of our lives is entirely unwarranted and undesirable. It can not be either established or refuted definitively. Therefore a true seeker of truth will not ACCEPT this.

It is true that these are mainly acts of faith rather than reason. But many perople in Hinduism and in other faiths too believe the opposite to be true. And yet, with belief in human free will, and non-determinism and part determinism, achieve great spiritual success.

Faith in fatalism is one of the greatest cultural ailments that Hinduism has to rid itself of for human progress.

P. K. Siddharth

---------

Hello Thinkers, The following gives reason for my speculation based on the your statements. 1 God is very much disturbed like a father who feels pained when his children suffer, and searches for the relief. So does God. 2.The word GOD is in the common Noun and can be applied to any one, anything, if he has more or little power or strength. Failure in power to do deeds expected or imagined is lost then the God becomes only past history. 3. If good and bad are only perception then the truth of pain and poverty is false, and man becomes insensible and living is imaginary, which is untrue, for we live and experience pain, joy, hunger and feast and all the paradox. 4.If Karma was real then nothing in nature will ever change, for what is it is because it has to be is. Very confusing thoughts because we are in a merry go round, with no standing on starting or finishing events. WITH ALL THIS THOUGHT I AM IN WANT? Goodwill to all, Paul Ponniah.

---------

On 1/18/08, hari Motwani <habmeds (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

God's plans are never disturbed, they will continue in their settled system like the ways of light, only human beings have to understand and accept them with settled mind "Asthit Budhi". Then one can enjoy it, other wise it will always be devil's play. Hari Motwani

-----------

who are we disturb the gods'plans?. ultimately our say does not work. what is ordained, that only takes place. But we should make a sincere prayer that my doing or sankalpa should tally with that of God's. Ordinarily when the plans are in a right direction they would definitely see the fulfilment. after all, god makes the life style for the beings and despatches them in to the world of action. we say in our worship sriparamesvaraprityartham when that arpana buddhi is there the success is definite. it is not necessary to think that we interfere into the god's mind.

It is best not to worry, but do the right thing. the result is automatic and unasked for. When we do right thing fully, God cooperates. subhameva bhavati. prabhakar -----------

Interesting message, to know God Gita is one media. Every culture has its own manifestation of God in its own sphere being made by the Same God or God Power. He cannot be different for and bring about a confusion in Truth. Truth is unique.OK.

Paul Ponniah.

-----------

From: pratapbhatt Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:03:37 -0800Re: Why Disturb God's Plans ?

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!If one tries to know God as described in Gita, one will no doubt discover God as the Truth of our Existence which is ONE with the Existence of all known and unknown, sentients, insentients, manifest, unmanifest. Once the real nature of God is understood, all questions will evaporate in the light of such knowledge. Such questions arise from the assumptions, beliefs based on our conditioning of what we have heard, read, and are told by the society in which we grow up and live. Such beliefs are never examined. Upon investigation into nature of God with the grace of God, with help of a realized Guru, or spiritual friend, or scripture such as Gita, one may discover that God is not an entity with blue print for everything. God is name we give to the EXPERIENCE of limitless AWARENESS and joy of just Being which is at the same time Intelligence and total freedom. God is such freedom at every moment that cannot be fixed in some distant past and now God is bound by it. Bondage is only when we identify with our body-mind organism and act as separate individuals. Look into our own experience of happiness when we say or do good things, and unhappiness when we do or say bad things. This is also enough to convince us to realize the truth of GOd rather than assume such bondage in dispairs! Namaskar, Pratap-------------------------All lives are programmed already and do according to their "nature" svabhav. origin, operation and destruction are just manifest of the program objectives. good and bad are perception of individual according to their nature "svabhav". God is truth which is not relative from one and another. In the same universe, there are people who see truth in everything, and others who see conflict in everything. regardsKrishna Gopal------------------------- As per Gita, God is not a watchman. God has provided us the guiding principles, but the free lies within us. It is up to us to do our part, our share. We can't be irresponsible with the attitudethat the God will take care, etc. Even the myth that if we do good work, then God will guarantee success, is wrong.Five factors determine the outcome of all actions (good or bad) as per Gita:Timing, doer, tools, how tools are applied and fate/providence. However, if we do good, ultimately we are better off (because as per Gita no good deed goes to waste- even if there is no immediate gain). Likewise, even if we have immediate success with evil,God will make sure that they will keep coming back to inferior lives. However, if we turn to God, God is happy to help. It is for our own welfare we have to do good.For example we send our kids to college, having brought them ane even paying tuition. It is child's responsibility to take care of studies, home work, safety, remain drug free, don't get pregnant or get someone pregnent etc. K.S. tAtAchAr-------------------------nsk717Narayana, NarayanaGita provides insight into your question "anil nevatia".We should dogood things only because you can leave the karma phala of the gooddeeds but you can't leave the karma phala of the bad deeds and liberate.i.e. do good deeds and you can liberate easily. This is the onlyreason of doing only good deeds. And try to do always only good deeds.---------------------------- anil nevatia <anilkamail > wrote:> When God plans to execute as per his blue print why> disturb the same.> When God descended the first human, it is was clear> that the beginning of the end had started, so why to > say and do good things ? > > Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". Check it out.

February 10, 2008

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

Very beautiful things have been said in response to Anilji's beautiful questions.

Something I heard from Babaji was very enlightening for me so would like to share it with you all and hope it would do the same for you too...

The following are not exact words but my understanding/interpretation/clicking of what He explained...

We are the creator of our own blue print. Something from Bible might be beneficial here. Beautiful symbolism. When Adam-Eve were created by God in the very beginning of His creation, they were naked, i.e., they were devoid of body consciousness. When they ate the fruit from the prohibited tree, they became aware of their nakedness, i.e., when they did their 1st karma with expectation of enjoying the fruits of it, they came down to body awareness, i.e., 'i am the doer...' or they became ego centric. Thus they have to bear the consequences of the fruits of their action. They became shameful. So really when God descended the first human, the intention was not to end but make it immortal just like Him. We human missed out understanding it. the intention has still remain the same be immortal like Him freeing ourselves from the body consciousness. As Bhagwan said if you come to Me you will attain Me only...

There are three types of actions that determine our blue print. Babaji gives an example of a bow and 3 arrows:

One arrow has already left from the bow aimed at a dear. Most of the time the arrow that has left can't be reverted, it sure will attain the result of killing that dear. We don't have any control over that arrow.

Second arrow is set on the bow, we might let go towards the target or we might not. Here the action is in motion, yet we have some control over it to stop it even in the middle and thus stop the fruits of such action.

Third arrow is still sitting in the quiver over which we have complete control not to even take it out.

In other words,

we have done some actions in past of which we have to bear the consequences. However, He said that if you have taken refuge of an able Guru, He can make the target missed, e.g., by clapping, diverting the attention of that dear and make him run away before the arrow hits him!!!

Some actions are in progress but as soon as we become aware of our action, we can alter the course of such action.

And in third situation, the actions we would have performed in ignorance could be completely avoided by transforming our lives like roasted seeds don't even germinate. If you come to Me you will attain Me only...

As one seed gives many fruits, one thought gives birth to many actions - gross or subtle, and thus it keeps on multiplying without our knowledge. Becoming aware of our thought process is very important. So many things can be stop our thoughts before it takes any grosser form. With higher evolution, so many thoughts can be stopped at the source level - not to let them come down even at the thought level. One thought not only impacts us but it impacts lot many people around us and the environment we live in. It not only gives immediate results/pleasure/pain but it carries consequences in future also. It not only affects our present lfve but many lives to come. So one has to be very very careful of their thoughts.

At one time some one asked Babaji that what kind of freedom do we have... He gave another beautiful example. A cow has been tied with a long rope. This cow has 3 possibilities:

circle around the pole, reduce the length of rope and be miserable, i.e., remain entangled in worldly affairs, loose the freedom and be miserable

use the freedom of long rope and move around smartly. One almost feels free but one knows that there is still rope tied to a pole.

or be really smart and by break the rope from the pole, cow has enough strength to free herself permanently. Sarvadharmaan parityajya...

Hope this additional clarification will be beneficial in understanding how our blue prints are determined and what type of karmas/actions we should engage in.

humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

On 1/15/08, anil nevatia <anilkamail wrote:

When God plans to execute as per his blue print why disturb the same. When God descended the first human, it is was clear that the beginning of the end had started, so why to say and do good things ?

Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

February 12, 2008

-----

Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances.

I read what Manjulaji wrote and I said WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!!

I'll ask some questions later, but for now my question is, can you

cite a verse from the Bhagavad Gita that corresponds to what you say

here? I mean, the examples about the arrow. And what is the blue

print? If I know the term, I know it in Spanish. My Bhagavad Gita is

in Spanish.

Thank you!!! Stay well

" Daniel " Tkach

-----

THANKS FOR INFO.GOD BLESS U AND YR FAMILY

chatur patel

-----

Thanks for the nice explanations.G.Vaidyanathan..

-----

The " Babaji " should call himself " Father " and teach in Christian

setting. Hindu's and real Babaji do not accept the Bible myth and God.

Classyoga

----

I can write volumes on the " genesis " of bible refuting every logic or

its lack of it. Let me say in short that quoting bible would never be

adequate for you to explain what " sanatana dharma " is or what Lord

Krishna gave to the world as TOTAL KNOWLEDGE IN BHAGAVAD GITA. In

fact, hundreds of stories appearing in bible have their origins in

Indian scriptures.

With best regards,

Sanatana Dharma is a STAND ALONE / WHOLESOME, UNIVERSAL, SCIENTIFIC

INTERPRETATIONS of ISHWARA (Lord Krishna), His creation that is this

universe and its mysteries.

With best regards,

vm

Message shortened by Moderator.....

-----

My intention was not to hurt any one's feelings. I was sharing it to

show how we become the creator of our own blue print which I indicated

in the beginning and I thought the example was appropriate otherwise I

would not have shared.

Scriptures are written using mystical language so one can interpret

them according to their level of understanding and spiritual

experiences. I am not imposing my ideas on any one, the example

inspired me so I shared, if it doesn't to you simply drop it ;-)

Yes, I do believe that scriptures of Sanatan Dharma are more elaborate

and inclusive in directing our thought process towards God. Those who

will understand mystism of Gitaji, will understand other scriptures

too. I am open and respectful of other scriptures too as they all

talk about only one God and I thank my Guruji for showing me the path.

with humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

" Manjula Patel "

Message shortened by Moderator.....

-----

dear divine souls.

this is my first msg to you. my sincere Gratitude to You, manula ji

for puting forwards this mail.

jai sri ram

kuldip

-----

, " Manjula Patel " <manjumaa wrote:

>

> Loving Divine,

> Pranam.

> Very beautiful things have been said in response to Anilji's beautiful

> questions.

> Something I heard from Babaji was very enlightening for me so would

like to

> share it with you all and hope it would do the same for you too...

> The following are not exact words but my

> understanding/interpretation/clicking of what He explained...

>

> - We are the creator of our own blue print. Something from Bible

> might be beneficial here. Beautiful symbolism. When Adam-Eve

were created

> by God in the very beginning of His creation, they were naked, i.e.,

> they were devoid of body consciousness. When they ate the fruit

from the

> prohibited tree, they became aware of their nakedness, i.e., when

they

> did their 1st karma with expectation of enjoying the fruits of

it, they came

> down to body awareness, i.e., 'i am the doer...' or they became ego

> centric. Thus they have to bear the consequences of the fruits

of their

> action. They became shameful. So really when God descended the

first

> human, the intention was not to end but make it immortal just

like Him. We

> human missed out understanding it. the intention has still

remain the same

> be immortal like Him freeing ourselves from the body

consciousness. As

> Bhagwan said if you come to Me you will attain Me only...

> - There are three types of actions that determine our blue print.

> Babaji gives an example of a bow and 3 arrows:

> - One arrow has already left from the bow aimed at a dear. Most

> of the time the arrow that has left can't be reverted, it sure

> will attain

> the result of killing that dear. We don't have any control over

> that arrow.

> - Second arrow is set on the bow, we might let go towards

> the target or we might not. Here the action is in motion, yet

> we have some

> control over it to stop it even in the middle and thus stop

the fruits of

> such action.

> - Third arrow is still sitting in the quiver over which we have

> complete control not to even take it out.

> - In other words,

> - we have done some actions in past of which we have to bear the

> consequences. However, He said that if you have taken refuge

of an able

> Guru, He can make the target missed, e.g., by clapping,

> diverting the attention of that dear and make him run away

> before the arrow

> hits him!!!

> - Some actions are in progress but as soon as we become aware of

> our action, we can alter the course of such action.

> - And in third situation, the actions we would have performed in

> ignorance could be completely avoided by transforming our lives

> like roasted

> seeds don't even germinate. If you come to Me you will attain

Me only...

> - As one seed gives many fruits, one thought gives birth to many

> actions - gross or subtle, and thus it keeps on multiplying

without our

> knowledge. Becoming aware of our thought process is very

important. So

> many things can be stop our thoughts before it takes any grosser

form. With

> higher evolution, so many thoughts can be stopped at the source

level - not

> to let them come down even at the thought level. One thought not

only

> impacts us but it impacts lot many people around us and the

environment we

> live in. It not only gives immediate results/pleasure/pain but

it carries

> consequences in future also. It not only affects our present

lfve but many

> lives to come. So one has to be very very careful of their thoughts.

> - At one time some one asked Babaji that what kind of freedom do we

> have... He gave another beautiful example. A cow has been tied

with a long

> rope. This cow has 3 possibilities:

> - circle around the pole, reduce the length of rope and be

> miserable, i.e., remain entangled in worldly affairs, loose the

> freedom and be miserable

> - use the freedom of long rope and move around smartly. One

> almost feels free but one knows that there is still rope tied

to a pole.

> - or be really smart and by break the rope from the pole,

> cow has enough strength to free herself permanently.

Sarvadharmaan

> parityajya...

>

> Hope this additional clarification will be beneficial in

understanding how

> our blue prints are determined and what type of karmas/actions we should

> engage in.

> humble regards,

> always at Thy Divine Feet

>

> On 1/15/08, anil nevatia <anilkamail wrote:

>

> > When God plans to execute as per his blue print why disturb the

same.

> > When God descended the first human, it is was clear that the

beginning of

> > the end had started, so why to say and do good things ?

> > Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

> >

>

February 13, 2008

Divine All,

Humble pranams.

Thanks to all for their encouraging / inspiring words. It is nothing

but praising God / Guru.

The following is in response to Danielji's inquiry:

* Please refer to Madanji's email sent on Jan 19.

* 'Blue Print' is the word used in original email by Anilji and I

continued using that word so that he can also relate the answer to his

inquiry. What Anilji meant was, if destiny is fixed, why bother? My

response was to say that destiny can be changed with our present

action. We have to bear the fruits/consequences of our past action

which we can not change (though some of it can be changed by an able

Guru) but we can change the course of our present and future actions.

* Arrow analogy was used to expand further on karma theory.

Gitaji (essence of Upanishads) doesn't elaborate on Karma but

Upanishads (Mundaka or Brihadaranyaka ???) do:

- Sanchita (accumulation of all karma from past lives),

- Prarabdha (from total accumulation the portion is worked out in

present life),

- Agami (from present life what we keep on adding to Sanchita that

will come to us in future / future

lives) and

- Kriyamana (karma that is being worked out immediately).

Gitaji talks about karma from tamas, rajas and satva perspective.

* Be aware of your action... BG 2:47.

* How one falls into the trap of bondage... BG 3:27, 5:12

* Come to Me... BG 12:8, 12

* Controlling ones thoughts... BG 6:25, 26, 35, BG 17:16

* Impact of karma... BG 18:12

* There are many slokas that reference non-doership of the action

through out Gitaji. BG Chapter 2, 4, 5... that can help with the 2nd

and 3rd arrow situation. E.g., BG 4:9, 19, 37 (roasted seed don't

germinate), 41. BG 5:7

This might be beneficial and encouraging to my Christian friends to

read a comparative book called 'The Torah, the Bible and Kriya Yoga'.

Hope I have covered your inquiry.

humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

Manjula Patel

--

There is no doubt about it that HE IS THE GREATEST

SCIENTIST,PHILOSOPHER AND WHAT NOT. If you look at the way humans are

made, brain, which controls everything is at the top [satvik], heart

which controls physical functioning and emotions is in the centre

[Rajasik] and the excretory organs at the bottom[Tamasik].Can any one

else do a better job than this. Let us all surrender to HIM totally.

G.Vaidyanathan.

--

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> -----

>

> Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances.

> I read what Manjulaji wrote and I said WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!!

> I'll ask some questions later, but for now my question is, can you

> cite a verse from the Bhagavad Gita that corresponds to what you say

> here? I mean, the examples about the arrow. And what is the blue

> print? If I know the term, I know it in Spanish. My Bhagavad Gita is

> in Spanish.

> Thank you!!! Stay well

> " Daniel " Tkach

> -----

> THANKS FOR INFO.GOD BLESS U AND YR FAMILY

> chatur patel

>

> -----

> Thanks for the nice explanations.G.Vaidyanathan..

> -----

> The " Babaji " should call himself " Father " and teach in Christian

> setting. Hindu's and real Babaji do not accept the Bible myth and God.

> Classyoga

> ----

>

> I can write volumes on the " genesis " of bible refuting every logic or

> its lack of it. Let me say in short that quoting bible would never be

> adequate for you to explain what " sanatana dharma " is or what Lord

> Krishna gave to the world as TOTAL KNOWLEDGE IN BHAGAVAD GITA. In

> fact, hundreds of stories appearing in bible have their origins in

> Indian scriptures.

> With best regards,

> Sanatana Dharma is a STAND ALONE / WHOLESOME, UNIVERSAL, SCIENTIFIC

> INTERPRETATIONS of ISHWARA (Lord Krishna), His creation that is this

> universe and its mysteries.

> With best regards,

> vm

> Message shortened by Moderator.....

> -----

> My intention was not to hurt any one's feelings. I was sharing it to

> show how we become the creator of our own blue print which I indicated

> in the beginning and I thought the example was appropriate otherwise I

> would not have shared.

>

> Scriptures are written using mystical language so one can interpret

> them according to their level of understanding and spiritual

> experiences. I am not imposing my ideas on any one, the example

> inspired me so I shared, if it doesn't to you simply drop it ;-)

>

> Yes, I do believe that scriptures of Sanatan Dharma are more elaborate

> and inclusive in directing our thought process towards God. Those who

> will understand mystism of Gitaji, will understand other scriptures

> too. I am open and respectful of other scriptures too as they all

> talk about only one God and I thank my Guruji for showing me the path.

>

> with humble regards,

> always at Thy Divine Feet

> " Manjula Patel "

> Message shortened by Moderator.....

> -----

>

> dear divine souls.

> this is my first msg to you. my sincere Gratitude to You, manula ji

> for puting forwards this mail.

>

> jai sri ram

> kuldip

> -----

> , " Manjula Patel " <manjumaa@> wrote:

> >

> > Loving Divine,

> > Pranam.

> > Very beautiful things have been said in response to Anilji's beautiful

> > questions.

> > Something I heard from Babaji was very enlightening for me so would

> like to

> > share it with you all and hope it would do the same for you too...

> > The following are not exact words but my

> > understanding/interpretation/clicking of what He explained...

> >

> > - We are the creator of our own blue print. Something from Bible

> > might be beneficial here. Beautiful symbolism. When Adam-Eve

> were created

> > by God in the very beginning of His creation, they were naked,

i.e.,

> > they were devoid of body consciousness. When they ate the fruit

> from the

> > prohibited tree, they became aware of their nakedness, i.e., when

> they

> > did their 1st karma with expectation of enjoying the fruits of

> it, they came

> > down to body awareness, i.e., 'i am the doer...' or they became ego

> > centric. Thus they have to bear the consequences of the fruits

> of their

> > action. They became shameful. So really when God descended the

> first

> > human, the intention was not to end but make it immortal just

> like Him. We

> > human missed out understanding it. the intention has still

> remain the same

> > be immortal like Him freeing ourselves from the body

> consciousness. As

> > Bhagwan said if you come to Me you will attain Me only...

> > - There are three types of actions that determine our blue print.

> > Babaji gives an example of a bow and 3 arrows:

> > - One arrow has already left from the bow aimed at a dear. Most

> > of the time the arrow that has left can't be reverted, it sure

> > will attain

> > the result of killing that dear. We don't have any control over

> > that arrow.

> > - Second arrow is set on the bow, we might let go towards

> > the target or we might not. Here the action is in motion, yet

> > we have some

> > control over it to stop it even in the middle and thus stop

> the fruits of

> > such action.

> > - Third arrow is still sitting in the quiver over which we have

> > complete control not to even take it out.

> > - In other words,

> > - we have done some actions in past of which we have to bear the

> > consequences. However, He said that if you have taken refuge

> of an able

> > Guru, He can make the target missed, e.g., by clapping,

> > diverting the attention of that dear and make him run away

> > before the arrow

> > hits him!!!

> > - Some actions are in progress but as soon as we become aware of

> > our action, we can alter the course of such action.

> > - And in third situation, the actions we would have performed in

> > ignorance could be completely avoided by transforming our lives

> > like roasted

> > seeds don't even germinate. If you come to Me you will attain

> Me only...

> > - As one seed gives many fruits, one thought gives birth to many

> > actions - gross or subtle, and thus it keeps on multiplying

> without our

> > knowledge. Becoming aware of our thought process is very

> important. So

> > many things can be stop our thoughts before it takes any grosser

> form. With

> > higher evolution, so many thoughts can be stopped at the source

> level - not

> > to let them come down even at the thought level. One thought not

> only

> > impacts us but it impacts lot many people around us and the

> environment we

> > live in. It not only gives immediate results/pleasure/pain but

> it carries

> > consequences in future also. It not only affects our present

> lfve but many

> > lives to come. So one has to be very very careful of their

thoughts.

> > - At one time some one asked Babaji that what kind of freedom do we

> > have... He gave another beautiful example. A cow has been tied

> with a long

> > rope. This cow has 3 possibilities:

> > - circle around the pole, reduce the length of rope and be

> > miserable, i.e., remain entangled in worldly affairs, loose the

> > freedom and be miserable

> > - use the freedom of long rope and move around smartly. One

> > almost feels free but one knows that there is still rope tied

> to a pole.

> > - or be really smart and by break the rope from the pole,

> > cow has enough strength to free herself permanently.

> Sarvadharmaan

> > parityajya...

> >

> > Hope this additional clarification will be beneficial in

> understanding how

> > our blue prints are determined and what type of karmas/actions we

should

> > engage in.

> > humble regards,

> > always at Thy Divine Feet

> >

> > On 1/15/08, anil nevatia <anilkamail@> wrote:

> >

> > > When God plans to execute as per his blue print why disturb the

> same.

> > > When God descended the first human, it is was clear that the

> beginning of

> > > the end had started, so why to say and do good things ?

> > > Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

> > >

> >

>

February 14, 2008

Nobody or anything can disturb GOD and His Plans. GOD is said

as " Apprameyam " means beyond all senses and objects. Everything is

set and computerised and networked and part of His divine plan.

B.Sathyanarayan

---

God's plan cannot be disturbed. Is it a blue-print, as someone has

suggested in this discussion. Let's learn from this anecdote.

We sipped the hot, dark coffee from oversized clay mugs and talked

quietly about the real issues of life. Both of us were in a season

with some unanswered questions in our lives. We talked about

trusting God in the midst of problems, worries and anxiety. It's not

always an easy thing to do.

Every day we make a choice to either trust God ... or not. We can

worry and stew when things are not clear, or we can choose to trust

Him. We can choose to believe He is faithful and that He will direct

our path in His time ... and it will not be too late.

It is a challenge to ask ourselves, " Do I really trust God? " Often

with our lips we say, " Yes, " but with our worried lives we say, " No. "

Do I believe it when God makes a promise in His Word, the Bible? He

says...

" I will instruct you and guide you along the best pathway for your

life. I will advise you and watch your progress, " This is God's plan.

The choice you make today to believe those words and trust God will

bring a result in your life...listen...

" ...abiding love surrounds those who trust in the Lord. So rejoice

in him, all those who are His and shout for joy all those who choose

to obey Him, " the Bible says.

Choosing to trust God in the confusing times in our lives releases

the peace and the comfort of His love and it will surround

us...holding us secure through the winds of change and uncertainty.

Our lives will be marked by a joy and a rejoicing that will be the

by-product of His surrounding love.

Choosing to believe that God will guide you in the best pathway for

your life frees you from the anxiety of worry. Trust is a choice we

can make in a God who has proven Himself trustworthy to countless

believers.

Choose to trust Him today with the question marks in your life.

God's plan never fails.

yeshu rathenam

---

Hare Krsna!!

Hi Manjula Patel. Thank you very much for posting that example about

the arrow. It really changed my life. Thanks thanks thanks!

Daniel

---

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Divine All,

> Humble pranams.

> Thanks to all for their encouraging / inspiring words. It is

nothing

> but praising God / Guru.

> The following is in response to Danielji's inquiry:

>

> * Please refer to Madanji's email sent on Jan 19.

> * 'Blue Print' is the word used in original email by Anilji

and I

> continued using that word so that he can also relate the answer to

his

> inquiry. What Anilji meant was, if destiny is fixed, why bother?

My

> response was to say that destiny can be changed with our present

> action. We have to bear the fruits/consequences of our past action

> which we can not change (though some of it can be changed by an

able

> Guru) but we can change the course of our present and future

actions.

> * Arrow analogy was used to expand further on karma theory.

> Gitaji (essence of Upanishads) doesn't elaborate on Karma but

> Upanishads (Mundaka or Brihadaranyaka ???) do:

> - Sanchita (accumulation of all karma from past lives),

>

> - Prarabdha (from total accumulation the portion is

worked out in present life),

> - Agami (from present life what we keep on adding to

Sanchita that will come to us in future / future

> lives) and

> - Kriyamana (karma that is being worked out immediately).

>

> Gitaji talks about karma from tamas, rajas and satva perspective.

> * Be aware of your action... BG 2:47.

> * How one falls into the trap of bondage... BG 3:27, 5:12

> * Come to Me... BG 12:8, 12

> * Controlling ones thoughts... BG 6:25, 26, 35, BG 17:16

> * Impact of karma... BG 18:12

> * There are many slokas that reference non-doership of the

action

> through out Gitaji. BG Chapter 2, 4, 5... that can help with the

2nd

> and 3rd arrow situation. E.g., BG 4:9, 19, 37 (roasted seed don't

> germinate), 41. BG 5:7

>

> This might be beneficial and encouraging to my Christian friends to

> read a comparative book called 'The Torah, the Bible and Kriya

Yoga'.

> Hope I have covered your inquiry.

> humble regards,

> always at Thy Divine Feet

>

> Manjula Patel

>

> -

-

>

> There is no doubt about it that HE IS THE GREATEST

> SCIENTIST,PHILOSOPHER AND WHAT NOT. If you look at the way humans

are

> made, brain, which controls everything is at the top [satvik],

heart

> which controls physical functioning and emotions is in the centre

> [Rajasik] and the excretory organs at the bottom[Tamasik].Can any

one

> else do a better job than this. Let us all surrender to HIM

totally.

> G.Vaidyanathan.

> -

-

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > --------------------------------

------

> >

> > Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances.

> > I read what Manjulaji wrote and I said WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!!

> > I'll ask some questions later, but for now my question is, can

you

> > cite a verse from the Bhagavad Gita that corresponds to what you

say

> > here? I mean, the examples about the arrow. And what is the blue

> > print? If I know the term, I know it in Spanish. My Bhagavad

Gita is

> > in Spanish.

> > Thank you!!! Stay well

> > " Daniel " Tkach

> > --------------------------------

------

> > THANKS FOR INFO.GOD BLESS U AND YR FAMILY

> > chatur patel

> >

> > --------------------------------

------

> > Thanks for the nice explanations.G.Vaidyanathan..

> > --------------------------------

------

> > The " Babaji " should call himself " Father " and teach in Christian

> > setting. Hindu's and real Babaji do not accept the Bible myth

and God.

> > Classyoga

> > --------------------------------

-----

> >

> > I can write volumes on the " genesis " of bible refuting every

logic or

> > its lack of it. Let me say in short that quoting bible would

never be

> > adequate for you to explain what " sanatana dharma " is or what

Lord

> > Krishna gave to the world as TOTAL KNOWLEDGE IN BHAGAVAD GITA.

In

> > fact, hundreds of stories appearing in bible have their origins

in

> > Indian scriptures.

> > With best regards,

> > Sanatana Dharma is a STAND ALONE / WHOLESOME, UNIVERSAL,

SCIENTIFIC

> > INTERPRETATIONS of ISHWARA (Lord Krishna), His creation that is

this

> > universe and its mysteries.

> > With best regards,

> > vm

> > Message shortened by Moderator.....

> > --------------------------------

------

> > My intention was not to hurt any one's feelings. I was sharing

it to

> > show how we become the creator of our own blue print which I

indicated

> > in the beginning and I thought the example was appropriate

otherwise I

> > would not have shared.

> >

> > Scriptures are written using mystical language so one can

interpret

> > them according to their level of understanding and spiritual

> > experiences. I am not imposing my ideas on any one, the example

> > inspired me so I shared, if it doesn't to you simply drop it ;-)

> >

> > Yes, I do believe that scriptures of Sanatan Dharma are more

elaborate

> > and inclusive in directing our thought process towards God.

Those who

> > will understand mystism of Gitaji, will understand other

scriptures

> > too. I am open and respectful of other scriptures too as they

all

> > talk about only one God and I thank my Guruji for showing me the

path.

> >

> > with humble regards,

> > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > " Manjula Patel "

> > Message shortened by Moderator.....

> > --------------------------------

------

> >

> > dear divine souls.

> > this is my first msg to you. my sincere Gratitude to You, manula

ji

> > for puting forwards this mail.

> >

> > jai sri ram

> > kuldip

> > --------------------------------

------

> > , " Manjula Patel " <manjumaa@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Loving Divine,

> > > Pranam.

> > > Very beautiful things have been said in response to Anilji's

beautiful

> > > questions.

> > > Something I heard from Babaji was very enlightening for me so

would

> > like to

> > > share it with you all and hope it would do the same for you

too...

> > > The following are not exact words but my

> > > understanding/interpretation/clicking of what He explained...

> > >

> > > - We are the creator of our own blue print. Something from

Bible

> > > might be beneficial here. Beautiful symbolism. When Adam-

Eve

> > were created

> > > by God in the very beginning of His creation, they were

naked,

> i.e.,

> > > they were devoid of body consciousness. When they ate the

fruit

> > from the

> > > prohibited tree, they became aware of their nakedness,

i.e., when

> > they

> > > did their 1st karma with expectation of enjoying the fruits

of

> > it, they came

> > > down to body awareness, i.e., 'i am the doer...' or they

became ego

> > > centric. Thus they have to bear the consequences of the

fruits

> > of their

> > > action. They became shameful. So really when God

descended the

> > first

> > > human, the intention was not to end but make it immortal

just

> > like Him. We

> > > human missed out understanding it. the intention has still

> > remain the same

> > > be immortal like Him freeing ourselves from the body

> > consciousness. As

> > > Bhagwan said if you come to Me you will attain Me only...

> > > - There are three types of actions that determine our blue

print.

> > > Babaji gives an example of a bow and 3 arrows:

> > > - One arrow has already left from the bow aimed at a

dear. Most

> > > of the time the arrow that has left can't be reverted,

it sure

> > > will attain

> > > the result of killing that dear. We don't have any

control over

> > > that arrow.

> > > - Second arrow is set on the bow, we might let go towards

> > > the target or we might not. Here the action is in

motion, yet

> > > we have some

> > > control over it to stop it even in the middle and thus

stop

> > the fruits of

> > > such action.

> > > - Third arrow is still sitting in the quiver over which

we have

> > > complete control not to even take it out.

> > > - In other words,

> > > - we have done some actions in past of which we have to

bear the

> > > consequences. However, He said that if you have taken

refuge

> > of an able

> > > Guru, He can make the target missed, e.g., by clapping,

> > > diverting the attention of that dear and make him run

away

> > > before the arrow

> > > hits him!!!

> > > - Some actions are in progress but as soon as we become

aware of

> > > our action, we can alter the course of such action.

> > > - And in third situation, the actions we would have

performed in

> > > ignorance could be completely avoided by transforming

our lives

> > > like roasted

> > > seeds don't even germinate. If you come to Me you will

attain

> > Me only...

> > > - As one seed gives many fruits, one thought gives birth to

many

> > > actions - gross or subtle, and thus it keeps on multiplying

> > without our

> > > knowledge. Becoming aware of our thought process is very

> > important. So

> > > many things can be stop our thoughts before it takes any

grosser

> > form. With

> > > higher evolution, so many thoughts can be stopped at the

source

> > level - not

> > > to let them come down even at the thought level. One

thought not

> > only

> > > impacts us but it impacts lot many people around us and the

> > environment we

> > > live in. It not only gives immediate results/pleasure/pain

but

> > it carries

> > > consequences in future also. It not only affects our

present

> > lfve but many

> > > lives to come. So one has to be very very careful of their

> thoughts.

> > > - At one time some one asked Babaji that what kind of

freedom do we

> > > have... He gave another beautiful example. A cow has been

tied

> > with a long

> > > rope. This cow has 3 possibilities:

> > > - circle around the pole, reduce the length of rope and

be

> > > miserable, i.e., remain entangled in worldly affairs,

loose the

> > > freedom and be miserable

> > > - use the freedom of long rope and move around smartly.

One

> > > almost feels free but one knows that there is still rope

tied

> > to a pole.

> > > - or be really smart and by break the rope from the pole,

> > > cow has enough strength to free herself permanently.

> > Sarvadharmaan

> > > parityajya...

> > >

> > > Hope this additional clarification will be beneficial in

> > understanding how

> > > our blue prints are determined and what type of karmas/actions

we

> should

> > > engage in.

> > > humble regards,

> > > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > >

> > > On 1/15/08, anil nevatia <anilkamail@> wrote:

> > >

> > > > When God plans to execute as per his blue print why

disturb the

> > same.

> > > > When God descended the first human, it is was clear that the

> > beginning of

> > > > the end had started, so why to say and do good things ?

> > > > Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

February 15, 2008

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

A lot has been said on this subject, and all of it makes sense and

is useful!

My add: Can we really disturb God's plan without knowing God and His

Plan? We can of course say whatever happens to some one must be

God's plan, and take great solace in it and move on to resolve if

faced with problem after first accepting or rather welcoming it. As

Manjulaji pointed correctly in her analogy(as I understand it), the

question is what is to be done now that the arrow has left the bow.

We can act to the best of our ability to resolve it in a manner

which is fair, is the only requirement God has laid on us. Rest is

His/Her problem! (Gita: Yogeshu Karmakaushalam....)

Also Yeshuji has stressed Trust in God, which is very important too!

An unbroken trust in God to take care of problem one faces works.

What happens in such case is, either problem is solved in one's

favor or even more important than that is one gets strength to face

it regardless of the outcome. God changes the person rather than

his/her circumstances or people who may have hurt him/her. Isn't

this more of a miracle than otherwise? God is fairness in us! This

is the way I see God is changing the blue print or better yet is

modifying the blue print for such devotee out of His total freedom

at every moment of his/her life.

Now if one knows the meaning of God, the results of changing His

plan doesn't arise at all.

Pratap Bhatt

---

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Nobody or anything can disturb GOD and His Plans. GOD is said

> as " Apprameyam " means beyond all senses and objects. Everything is

> set and computerised and networked and part of His divine plan.

>

> B.Sathyanarayan

>

> -

--

> God's plan cannot be disturbed. Is it a blue-print, as someone has

> suggested in this discussion. Let's learn from this anecdote.

> We sipped the hot, dark coffee from oversized clay mugs and talked

> quietly about the real issues of life. Both of us were in a season

> with some unanswered questions in our lives. We talked about

> trusting God in the midst of problems, worries and anxiety. It's

not

> always an easy thing to do.

>

> Every day we make a choice to either trust God ... or not. We can

> worry and stew when things are not clear, or we can choose to

trust

> Him. We can choose to believe He is faithful and that He will

direct

> our path in His time ... and it will not be too late.

>

> It is a challenge to ask ourselves, " Do I really trust God? " Often

> with our lips we say, " Yes, " but with our worried lives we

say, " No. "

>

> Do I believe it when God makes a promise in His Word, the Bible? He

> says...

>

> " I will instruct you and guide you along the best pathway for your

> life. I will advise you and watch your progress, " This is God's

plan.

>

> The choice you make today to believe those words and trust God will

> bring a result in your life...listen...

>

> " ...abiding love surrounds those who trust in the Lord. So

rejoice

> in him, all those who are His and shout for joy all those who

choose

> to obey Him, " the Bible says.

>

> Choosing to trust God in the confusing times in our lives releases

> the peace and the comfort of His love and it will surround

> us...holding us secure through the winds of change and

uncertainty.

> Our lives will be marked by a joy and a rejoicing that will be the

> by-product of His surrounding love.

>

> Choosing to believe that God will guide you in the best pathway for

> your life frees you from the anxiety of worry. Trust is a choice

we

> can make in a God who has proven Himself trustworthy to countless

> believers.

> Choose to trust Him today with the question marks in your life.

> God's plan never fails.

>

> yeshu rathenam

>

> -

--

> Hare Krsna!!

> Hi Manjula Patel. Thank you very much for posting that example

about

> the arrow. It really changed my life. Thanks thanks thanks!

>

> Daniel

>

> -

--

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Divine All,

> > Humble pranams.

> > Thanks to all for their encouraging / inspiring words. It is

> nothing

> > but praising God / Guru.

> > The following is in response to Danielji's inquiry:

> >

> > * Please refer to Madanji's email sent on Jan 19.

> > * 'Blue Print' is the word used in original email by Anilji

> and I

> > continued using that word so that he can also relate the answer

to

> his

> > inquiry. What Anilji meant was, if destiny is fixed, why

bother?

> My

> > response was to say that destiny can be changed with our present

> > action. We have to bear the fruits/consequences of our past

action

> > which we can not change (though some of it can be changed by an

> able

> > Guru) but we can change the course of our present and future

> actions.

> > * Arrow analogy was used to expand further on karma theory.

> > Gitaji (essence of Upanishads) doesn't elaborate on Karma but

> > Upanishads (Mundaka or Brihadaranyaka ???) do:

> > - Sanchita (accumulation of all karma from past lives),

> >

> > - Prarabdha (from total accumulation the portion is

> worked out in present life),

> > - Agami (from present life what we keep on adding to

> Sanchita that will come to us in future / future

> > lives) and

> > - Kriyamana (karma that is being worked out

immediately).

> >

> > Gitaji talks about karma from tamas, rajas and satva perspective.

> > * Be aware of your action... BG 2:47.

> > * How one falls into the trap of bondage... BG 3:27, 5:12

> > * Come to Me... BG 12:8, 12

> > * Controlling ones thoughts... BG 6:25, 26, 35, BG 17:16

> > * Impact of karma... BG 18:12

> > * There are many slokas that reference non-doership of the

> action

> > through out Gitaji. BG Chapter 2, 4, 5... that can help with the

> 2nd

> > and 3rd arrow situation. E.g., BG 4:9, 19, 37 (roasted seed

don't

> > germinate), 41. BG 5:7

> >

> > This might be beneficial and encouraging to my Christian friends

to

> > read a comparative book called 'The Torah, the Bible and Kriya

> Yoga'.

> > Hope I have covered your inquiry.

> > humble regards,

> > always at Thy Divine Feet

> >

> > Manjula Patel

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> -

> >

> > There is no doubt about it that HE IS THE GREATEST

> > SCIENTIST,PHILOSOPHER AND WHAT NOT. If you look at the way

humans

> are

> > made, brain, which controls everything is at the top [satvik],

> heart

> > which controls physical functioning and emotions is in the centre

> > [Rajasik] and the excretory organs at the bottom[Tamasik].Can

any

> one

> > else do a better job than this. Let us all surrender to HIM

> totally.

> > G.Vaidyanathan.

> > --------------------------------

--

> -

> >

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> ------

> > >

> > > Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances.

> > > I read what Manjulaji wrote and I said WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!!

> > > I'll ask some questions later, but for now my question is, can

> you

> > > cite a verse from the Bhagavad Gita that corresponds to what

you

> say

> > > here? I mean, the examples about the arrow. And what is the

blue

> > > print? If I know the term, I know it in Spanish. My Bhagavad

> Gita is

> > > in Spanish.

> > > Thank you!!! Stay well

> > > " Daniel " Tkach

> > > ------------------------------

--

> ------

> > > THANKS FOR INFO.GOD BLESS U AND YR FAMILY

> > > chatur patel

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> ------

> > > Thanks for the nice explanations.G.Vaidyanathan..

> > > ------------------------------

--

> ------

> > > The " Babaji " should call himself " Father " and teach in

Christian

> > > setting. Hindu's and real Babaji do not accept the Bible myth

> and God.

> > > Classyoga

> > > ------------------------------

--

> -----

> > >

> > > I can write volumes on the " genesis " of bible refuting every

> logic or

> > > its lack of it. Let me say in short that quoting bible would

> never be

> > > adequate for you to explain what " sanatana dharma " is or what

> Lord

> > > Krishna gave to the world as TOTAL KNOWLEDGE IN BHAGAVAD

GITA.

> In

> > > fact, hundreds of stories appearing in bible have their

origins

> in

> > > Indian scriptures.

> > > With best regards,

> > > Sanatana Dharma is a STAND ALONE / WHOLESOME, UNIVERSAL,

> SCIENTIFIC

> > > INTERPRETATIONS of ISHWARA (Lord Krishna), His creation that

is

> this

> > > universe and its mysteries.

> > > With best regards,

> > > vm

> > > Message shortened by Moderator.....

> > > ------------------------------

--

> ------

> > > My intention was not to hurt any one's feelings. I was

sharing

> it to

> > > show how we become the creator of our own blue print which I

> indicated

> > > in the beginning and I thought the example was appropriate

> otherwise I

> > > would not have shared.

> > >

> > > Scriptures are written using mystical language so one can

> interpret

> > > them according to their level of understanding and spiritual

> > > experiences. I am not imposing my ideas on any one, the

example

> > > inspired me so I shared, if it doesn't to you simply drop it ;-

)

> > >

> > > Yes, I do believe that scriptures of Sanatan Dharma are more

> elaborate

> > > and inclusive in directing our thought process towards God.

> Those who

> > > will understand mystism of Gitaji, will understand other

> scriptures

> > > too. I am open and respectful of other scriptures too as they

> all

> > > talk about only one God and I thank my Guruji for showing me

the

> path.

> > >

> > > with humble regards,

> > > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > > " Manjula Patel "

> > > Message shortened by Moderator.....

> > > ------------------------------

--

> ------

> > >

> > > dear divine souls.

> > > this is my first msg to you. my sincere Gratitude to You,

manula

> ji

> > > for puting forwards this mail.

> > >

> > > jai sri ram

> > > kuldip

> > > ------------------------------

--

> ------

> > > , " Manjula Patel " <manjumaa@>

> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Loving Divine,

> > > > Pranam.

> > > > Very beautiful things have been said in response to Anilji's

> beautiful

> > > > questions.

> > > > Something I heard from Babaji was very enlightening for me

so

> would

> > > like to

> > > > share it with you all and hope it would do the same for you

> too...

> > > > The following are not exact words but my

> > > > understanding/interpretation/clicking of what He explained...

> > > >

> > > > - We are the creator of our own blue print. Something

from

> Bible

> > > > might be beneficial here. Beautiful symbolism. When

Adam-

> Eve

> > > were created

> > > > by God in the very beginning of His creation, they were

> naked,

> > i.e.,

> > > > they were devoid of body consciousness. When they ate

the

> fruit

> > > from the

> > > > prohibited tree, they became aware of their nakedness,

> i.e., when

> > > they

> > > > did their 1st karma with expectation of enjoying the

fruits

> of

> > > it, they came

> > > > down to body awareness, i.e., 'i am the doer...' or they

> became ego

> > > > centric. Thus they have to bear the consequences of the

> fruits

> > > of their

> > > > action. They became shameful. So really when God

> descended the

> > > first

> > > > human, the intention was not to end but make it immortal

> just

> > > like Him. We

> > > > human missed out understanding it. the intention has

still

> > > remain the same

> > > > be immortal like Him freeing ourselves from the body

> > > consciousness. As

> > > > Bhagwan said if you come to Me you will attain Me only...

> > > > - There are three types of actions that determine our

blue

> print.

> > > > Babaji gives an example of a bow and 3 arrows:

> > > > - One arrow has already left from the bow aimed at a

> dear. Most

> > > > of the time the arrow that has left can't be reverted,

> it sure

> > > > will attain

> > > > the result of killing that dear. We don't have any

> control over

> > > > that arrow.

> > > > - Second arrow is set on the bow, we might let go

towards

> > > > the target or we might not. Here the action is in

> motion, yet

> > > > we have some

> > > > control over it to stop it even in the middle and thus

> stop

> > > the fruits of

> > > > such action.

> > > > - Third arrow is still sitting in the quiver over

which

> we have

> > > > complete control not to even take it out.

> > > > - In other words,

> > > > - we have done some actions in past of which we have

to

> bear the

> > > > consequences. However, He said that if you have taken

> refuge

> > > of an able

> > > > Guru, He can make the target missed, e.g., by clapping,

> > > > diverting the attention of that dear and make him run

> away

> > > > before the arrow

> > > > hits him!!!

> > > > - Some actions are in progress but as soon as we

become

> aware of

> > > > our action, we can alter the course of such action.

> > > > - And in third situation, the actions we would have

> performed in

> > > > ignorance could be completely avoided by transforming

> our lives

> > > > like roasted

> > > > seeds don't even germinate. If you come to Me you

will

> attain

> > > Me only...

> > > > - As one seed gives many fruits, one thought gives birth

to

> many

> > > > actions - gross or subtle, and thus it keeps on

multiplying

> > > without our

> > > > knowledge. Becoming aware of our thought process is very

> > > important. So

> > > > many things can be stop our thoughts before it takes any

> grosser

> > > form. With

> > > > higher evolution, so many thoughts can be stopped at the

> source

> > > level - not

> > > > to let them come down even at the thought level. One

> thought not

> > > only

> > > > impacts us but it impacts lot many people around us and

the

> > > environment we

> > > > live in. It not only gives immediate

results/pleasure/pain

> but

> > > it carries

> > > > consequences in future also. It not only affects our

> present

> > > lfve but many

> > > > lives to come. So one has to be very very careful of

their

> > thoughts.

> > > > - At one time some one asked Babaji that what kind of

> freedom do we

> > > > have... He gave another beautiful example. A cow has

been

> tied

> > > with a long

> > > > rope. This cow has 3 possibilities:

> > > > - circle around the pole, reduce the length of rope

and

> be

> > > > miserable, i.e., remain entangled in worldly affairs,

> loose the

> > > > freedom and be miserable

> > > > - use the freedom of long rope and move around

smartly.

> One

> > > > almost feels free but one knows that there is still

rope

> tied

> > > to a pole.

> > > > - or be really smart and by break the rope from the

pole,

> > > > cow has enough strength to free herself permanently.

> > > Sarvadharmaan

> > > > parityajya...

> > > >

> > > > Hope this additional clarification will be beneficial in

> > > understanding how

> > > > our blue prints are determined and what type of

karmas/actions

> we

> > should

> > > > engage in.

> > > > humble regards,

> > > > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > > >

> > > > On 1/15/08, anil nevatia <anilkamail@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > When God plans to execute as per his blue print why

> disturb the

> > > same.

> > > > > When God descended the first human, it is was clear that

the

> > > beginning of

> > > > > the end had started, so why to say and do good things ?

> > > > > Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

February 16, 2008

Loving Divine,

Humble pranams.

You and Me are as much God as rest of His creation and non-creation

is!!!

with deep love and humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel

---

Respected One !,

Namasthe !!!

Yes, Ishwara Chaithanyam is in everyone and everything in equal

measure. Lord Krishna Himself says, " I am the fraud of the

fraudsters " .

It is the DOMINANCE of quality (Guna - Satva, rajas and Tamas) of

the nature that is exposed in one's thoughts/words/deeds.

Let us take everything as a GOD's Plan, as the topic of the

discussions itself suggests.

With best regards,

vm

vavamenon

---

Loving Divine,

Humble pranams.

I respect your sentiments about sanatan dharma.

If we are open to learn and accept God in all - vasudevam sarvam...

I would also accept that whatever rubbish is out there is also

God...!!!

With deep love and regards,

alwasy at Thy Divine Feet.

Manjula Patel

---

Respected One,

Namasthe !!!

SATHYAMEVA JAYATHE !!!

Our Great Maharishis have through countless scriptures called every human being

on this earth top SEEK AND REALISE BY EVERY ONE HIMSELF THE " ONE AND ONLY TRUTH

EXPRESSED IN TRILLIONS OF FORMS THOSE CAN BE SEEN WITH OUR NAKED EYES AND THOSE

CANNOT BE SEEN AS THE PARTS OF THIS UNIVERSE, WHICH INCLUDES THE AIR WE BREATHE

AND THE WATER WE DRINK " .

Tell me which other brain than Vyaasa Maharshi (or Valmeeki Maharshi) has given

such infinite scientific knowledge in such a short 700 slokas ?

THOSE WERE THE TRUTHS THAT THEY EXPERIENCED, AND ENJOYING THE ETERNAL BLISS, JOY

AND HAPPINESS (not the short-lived pleasures), OUT OF COMPASSION, THEY TRIED TO

GIVE US ALL INHERITORS WHAT THEY EXPERIENCED BY STRUCTURING OUR LIVES IN SUCH A

WAY THAT WE REMAIN CONNECTED TO THE DIVINE EVERY MOMENT OF OUR LIVES.

Your assumption that my mail is not related to GITAJI is wrong. My response is

very much about GITA only, because if one truly understands Bhagavad Gita, one

needs not take the help of some misleading and distracting foreign dogma.

Anyone who truly understands Bhagavad Gita understands everything. He remains

connected to Lord Krishna eternally and becomes the best and perfect devotee,

serving everyone else.

Bhagavad Gita is the concentrated form of sanatana dharma principles and

traditions / the science of Ishwar, His Creation that is this infinitely

indescribable Universe, the purpose of our lives on this earth, etc., so

beautifully explained through the 1400 plus authoritative scriptures and

countless other interpretations. The Science of Creation as expounded by

Sanatana Dharma, especially the quality of OMNIPRESENCE of Ishwara in each

animate and inanimate part of the Creation (including you and me), with the most

scientific and fool-proof " LAW OF KARMA "

For example, in sanatana dharma, the scriptures, the principle of LAW OF KARMA,

YOGA PRACTICISES, etc. have not changed and Ishwar has expressed Himself through

these Vedas and the universe itself.

If you are truly looking for the " mystical meanings of the scriptures " , please

read LIFE DIVINE by Ramana Maharishi and also books from Shri Aurobindo to know

about our scriptures.

please please please do not dilute the ALL-INCLUSIVE, UNIVERSAL, SCIENTIFIC AND

EXPERIMENTABLE/EXPERIENCEABLE sanatana dharma Principles and Traditions. That

is my only request.

I seek your forgiveness for any statement of mine given above being violent in

anyway.

That is my only request.

With best regards,

vm

P.S. : If my above email has not answered all your points in your mail, I am

answering them below, point by point :

Your Statement : Those who will understand mystism of Gitaji, will understand

other scriptures too.

There is no mysticism in GITA, If you understand about the indestructibility of

ATMA which is part of the PARAM-ATMA, and how our ignorance has covered (Avaran)

the ATMA and also by which methods and practicises, we can remove the veil of

ignorance to see, realize and experience the ATMA (SELF) which propels us from

moment to moment. When we experience the ATMA CHAITHANYAM within us, how

blissful we become, which is the eternal nature of our SELF. The

Sat-Chit-Anandam which we are craving for is already within you….

Your Statement: I am open and respectful of other scriptures too as they all

talk about only one God.

" ONE GOD " is the only truth that it said in these books, .... yet it's

application is something quite different.

Your Statement: I thank my Guruji for showing me the path.

For me, this entire universe is a university and I try to learn from anything

and everything that comes across/interacts with me. For me, every source of

knowledge is a teacher and guru. I accepted Lord Krishna as my Guru, then

Vyaasa Deva, Valmeeki Maharishi, then Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Ramana Maharishi,

and countless others, my parents, teachers in schools and colleges, persons with

whom I have discussed and exchanged knowledge-based spiritual information, and

all my surroundings, etc. I remain eternally indebted to one and all.

Thank you.

Regards,

vm

(modified by moderator)

---

Dear,

According to our vedas there are 84 Lac spices on this earth.

Everything works on Dharma. The karmas one does now reaps the fruits

later, in this birth or next birth. Prarabdha- Agami- Sanchita 3

types of Karma. The prarabdha karma done is the arrow let out of

bow, (said by Adi Sankara in his script Vivekachudamani). Even this

Prarabdha karma gets washed with certain slokas in which the pala

sruthi said.

Saints like Ramana, Sri Ramakrishna, Tukaram, Sakubai, Alwar etc

underwent sufferings due to prarabda karmas. But the differance

between them and us is that the sufferings was never felt by them,

for us a little pain also causes havock. Ex: Saint Ramana had

surgery done on his leg without any anesthisia and anti biotic tabs.

Dear sadaks, please understand that GOD is much above plans,

distrubance etc. Level of GOD is Paramanandham.

One attains HIM only by complete purity of mind and thought, with

constant . Bakthi.

Common sense- To reach divinity or have vision of GOD everyone knows

the difficulty to erase our Dur Gunas. Simply like that can anyone

think of distrubance. But GOD gets distrubed ONLY in circumstances

when HIS Bakthas are distrubed, but not made to distrube. This can

be known from many puranas. Ex: Jada Bharatha when he was to be

given human sacrifice GOD rescued. But Jada Bharatha never cried for

help. So also when Adi Sankara was to be slained.

GOD is said by vedas as " Aprameyam " . means beyond all five senses.

In that case with what anyone can distrube HIM

B.Sathyanarayan.

---

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

>

> A lot has been said on this subject, and all of it makes sense and

> is useful!

>

> My add: Can we really disturb God's plan without knowing God and

His

> Plan? We can of course say whatever happens to some one must be

> God's plan, and take great solace in it and move on to resolve if

> faced with problem after first accepting or rather welcoming it.

As

> Manjulaji pointed correctly in her analogy(as I understand it),

the

> question is what is to be done now that the arrow has left the

bow.

> We can act to the best of our ability to resolve it in a manner

> which is fair, is the only requirement God has laid on us. Rest is

> His/Her problem! (Gita: Yogeshu Karmakaushalam....)

>

> Also Yeshuji has stressed Trust in God, which is very important

too!

> An unbroken trust in God to take care of problem one faces works.

> What happens in such case is, either problem is solved in one's

> favor or even more important than that is one gets strength to face

> it regardless of the outcome. God changes the person rather than

> his/her circumstances or people who may have hurt him/her. Isn't

> this more of a miracle than otherwise? God is fairness in us! This

> is the way I see God is changing the blue print or better yet is

> modifying the blue print for such devotee out of His total freedom

> at every moment of his/her life.

> Now if one knows the meaning of God, the results of changing His

> plan doesn't arise at all.

>

> Pratap Bhatt

>

> -

--

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Nobody or anything can disturb GOD and His Plans. GOD is said

> > as " Apprameyam " means beyond all senses and objects. Everything

is

> > set and computerised and networked and part of His divine plan.

> >

> > B.Sathyanarayan

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> --

> > God's plan cannot be disturbed. Is it a blue-print, as someone

has

> > suggested in this discussion. Let's learn from this anecdote.

> > We sipped the hot, dark coffee from oversized clay mugs and

talked

> > quietly about the real issues of life. Both of us were in a

season

> > with some unanswered questions in our lives. We talked about

> > trusting God in the midst of problems, worries and anxiety. It's

> not

> > always an easy thing to do.

> >

> > Every day we make a choice to either trust God ... or not. We

can

> > worry and stew when things are not clear, or we can choose to

> trust

> > Him. We can choose to believe He is faithful and that He will

> direct

> > our path in His time ... and it will not be too late.

> >

> > It is a challenge to ask ourselves, " Do I really trust God? "

Often

> > with our lips we say, " Yes, " but with our worried lives we

> say, " No. "

> >

> > Do I believe it when God makes a promise in His Word, the Bible?

He

> > says...

> >

> > " I will instruct you and guide you along the best pathway for

your

> > life. I will advise you and watch your progress, " This is God's

> plan.

> >

> > The choice you make today to believe those words and trust God

will

> > bring a result in your life...listen...

> >

> > " ...abiding love surrounds those who trust in the Lord. So

> rejoice

> > in him, all those who are His and shout for joy all those who

> choose

> > to obey Him, " the Bible says.

> >

> > Choosing to trust God in the confusing times in our lives

releases

> > the peace and the comfort of His love and it will surround

> > us...holding us secure through the winds of change and

> uncertainty.

> > Our lives will be marked by a joy and a rejoicing that will be

the

> > by-product of His surrounding love.

> >

> > Choosing to believe that God will guide you in the best pathway

for

> > your life frees you from the anxiety of worry. Trust is a choice

> we

> > can make in a God who has proven Himself trustworthy to

countless

> > believers.

> > Choose to trust Him today with the question marks in your life.

> > God's plan never fails.

> >

> > yeshu rathenam

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> --

> > Hare Krsna!!

> > Hi Manjula Patel. Thank you very much for posting that example

> about

> > the arrow. It really changed my life. Thanks thanks thanks!

> >

> > Daniel

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> --

> >

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Divine All,

> > > Humble pranams.

> > > Thanks to all for their encouraging / inspiring words. It is

> > nothing

> > > but praising God / Guru.

> > > The following is in response to Danielji's inquiry:

> > >

> > > * Please refer to Madanji's email sent on Jan 19.

> > > * 'Blue Print' is the word used in original email by

Anilji

> > and I

> > > continued using that word so that he can also relate the

answer

> to

> > his

> > > inquiry. What Anilji meant was, if destiny is fixed, why

> bother?

> > My

> > > response was to say that destiny can be changed with our

present

> > > action. We have to bear the fruits/consequences of our past

> action

> > > which we can not change (though some of it can be changed by

an

> > able

> > > Guru) but we can change the course of our present and future

> > actions.

> > > * Arrow analogy was used to expand further on karma theory.

> > > Gitaji (essence of Upanishads) doesn't elaborate on Karma but

> > > Upanishads (Mundaka or Brihadaranyaka ???) do:

> > > - Sanchita (accumulation of all karma from past

lives),

> > >

> > > - Prarabdha (from total accumulation the portion is

> > worked out in present life),

> > > - Agami (from present life what we keep on adding to

> > Sanchita that will come to us in future / future

> > > lives) and

> > > - Kriyamana (karma that is being worked out

> immediately).

> > >

> > > Gitaji talks about karma from tamas, rajas and satva

perspective.

> > > * Be aware of your action... BG 2:47.

> > > * How one falls into the trap of bondage... BG 3:27, 5:12

> > > * Come to Me... BG 12:8, 12

> > > * Controlling ones thoughts... BG 6:25, 26, 35, BG 17:16

> > > * Impact of karma... BG 18:12

> > > * There are many slokas that reference non-doership of the

> > action

> > > through out Gitaji. BG Chapter 2, 4, 5... that can help with

the

> > 2nd

> > > and 3rd arrow situation. E.g., BG 4:9, 19, 37 (roasted seed

> don't

> > > germinate), 41. BG 5:7

> > >

> > > This might be beneficial and encouraging to my Christian

friends

> to

> > > read a comparative book called 'The Torah, the Bible and Kriya

> > Yoga'.

> > > Hope I have covered your inquiry.

> > > humble regards,

> > > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > >

> > > Manjula Patel

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > >

> > > There is no doubt about it that HE IS THE GREATEST

> > > SCIENTIST,PHILOSOPHER AND WHAT NOT. If you look at the way

> humans

> > are

> > > made, brain, which controls everything is at the top [satvik],

> > heart

> > > which controls physical functioning and emotions is in the

centre

> > > [Rajasik] and the excretory organs at the bottom[Tamasik].Can

> any

> > one

> > > else do a better job than this. Let us all surrender to HIM

> > totally.

> > > G.Vaidyanathan.

> > > ------------------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > >

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > ------

> > > >

> > > > Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances.

> > > > I read what Manjulaji wrote and I said WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!!

> > > > I'll ask some questions later, but for now my question is,

can

> > you

> > > > cite a verse from the Bhagavad Gita that corresponds to what

> you

> > say

> > > > here? I mean, the examples about the arrow. And what is the

> blue

> > > > print? If I know the term, I know it in Spanish. My Bhagavad

> > Gita is

> > > > in Spanish.

> > > > Thank you!!! Stay well

> > > > " Daniel " Tkach

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > ------

> > > > THANKS FOR INFO.GOD BLESS U AND YR FAMILY

> > > > chatur patel

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > ------

> > > > Thanks for the nice explanations.G.Vaidyanathan..

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > ------

> > > > The " Babaji " should call himself " Father " and teach in

> Christian

> > > > setting. Hindu's and real Babaji do not accept the Bible

myth

> > and God.

> > > > Classyoga

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > -----

> > > >

> > > > I can write volumes on the " genesis " of bible refuting every

> > logic or

> > > > its lack of it. Let me say in short that quoting bible

would

> > never be

> > > > adequate for you to explain what " sanatana dharma " is or

what

> > Lord

> > > > Krishna gave to the world as TOTAL KNOWLEDGE IN BHAGAVAD

> GITA.

> > In

> > > > fact, hundreds of stories appearing in bible have their

> origins

> > in

> > > > Indian scriptures.

> > > > With best regards,

> > > > Sanatana Dharma is a STAND ALONE / WHOLESOME, UNIVERSAL,

> > SCIENTIFIC

> > > > INTERPRETATIONS of ISHWARA (Lord Krishna), His creation that

> is

> > this

> > > > universe and its mysteries.

> > > > With best regards,

> > > > vm

> > > > Message shortened by Moderator.....

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > ------

> > > > My intention was not to hurt any one's feelings. I was

> sharing

> > it to

> > > > show how we become the creator of our own blue print which I

> > indicated

> > > > in the beginning and I thought the example was appropriate

> > otherwise I

> > > > would not have shared.

> > > >

> > > > Scriptures are written using mystical language so one can

> > interpret

> > > > them according to their level of understanding and spiritual

> > > > experiences. I am not imposing my ideas on any one, the

> example

> > > > inspired me so I shared, if it doesn't to you simply drop

it ;-

> )

> > > >

> > > > Yes, I do believe that scriptures of Sanatan Dharma are more

> > elaborate

> > > > and inclusive in directing our thought process towards God.

> > Those who

> > > > will understand mystism of Gitaji, will understand other

> > scriptures

> > > > too. I am open and respectful of other scriptures too as

they

> > all

> > > > talk about only one God and I thank my Guruji for showing me

> the

> > path.

> > > >

> > > > with humble regards,

> > > > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > > > " Manjula Patel "

> > > > Message shortened by Moderator.....

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > ------

> > > >

> > > > dear divine souls.

> > > > this is my first msg to you. my sincere Gratitude to You,

> manula

> > ji

> > > > for puting forwards this mail.

> > > >

> > > > jai sri ram

> > > > kuldip

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > ------

> > > > , " Manjula Patel "

<manjumaa@>

> > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Loving Divine,

> > > > > Pranam.

> > > > > Very beautiful things have been said in response to

Anilji's

> > beautiful

> > > > > questions.

> > > > > Something I heard from Babaji was very enlightening for me

> so

> > would

> > > > like to

> > > > > share it with you all and hope it would do the same for

you

> > too...

> > > > > The following are not exact words but my

> > > > > understanding/interpretation/clicking of what He

explained...

> > > > >

> > > > > - We are the creator of our own blue print. Something

> from

> > Bible

> > > > > might be beneficial here. Beautiful symbolism. When

> Adam-

> > Eve

> > > > were created

> > > > > by God in the very beginning of His creation, they were

> > naked,

> > > i.e.,

> > > > > they were devoid of body consciousness. When they ate

> the

> > fruit

> > > > from the

> > > > > prohibited tree, they became aware of their nakedness,

> > i.e., when

> > > > they

> > > > > did their 1st karma with expectation of enjoying the

> fruits

> > of

> > > > it, they came

> > > > > down to body awareness, i.e., 'i am the doer...' or

they

> > became ego

> > > > > centric. Thus they have to bear the consequences of

the

> > fruits

> > > > of their

> > > > > action. They became shameful. So really when God

> > descended the

> > > > first

> > > > > human, the intention was not to end but make it

immortal

> > just

> > > > like Him. We

> > > > > human missed out understanding it. the intention has

> still

> > > > remain the same

> > > > > be immortal like Him freeing ourselves from the body

> > > > consciousness. As

> > > > > Bhagwan said if you come to Me you will attain Me

only...

> > > > > - There are three types of actions that determine our

> blue

> > print.

> > > > > Babaji gives an example of a bow and 3 arrows:

> > > > > - One arrow has already left from the bow aimed at a

> > dear. Most

> > > > > of the time the arrow that has left can't be

reverted,

> > it sure

> > > > > will attain

> > > > > the result of killing that dear. We don't have any

> > control over

> > > > > that arrow.

> > > > > - Second arrow is set on the bow, we might let go

> towards

> > > > > the target or we might not. Here the action is in

> > motion, yet

> > > > > we have some

> > > > > control over it to stop it even in the middle and

thus

> > stop

> > > > the fruits of

> > > > > such action.

> > > > > - Third arrow is still sitting in the quiver over

> which

> > we have

> > > > > complete control not to even take it out.

> > > > > - In other words,

> > > > > - we have done some actions in past of which we have

> to

> > bear the

> > > > > consequences. However, He said that if you have

taken

> > refuge

> > > > of an able

> > > > > Guru, He can make the target missed, e.g., by

clapping,

> > > > > diverting the attention of that dear and make him

run

> > away

> > > > > before the arrow

> > > > > hits him!!!

> > > > > - Some actions are in progress but as soon as we

> become

> > aware of

> > > > > our action, we can alter the course of such action.

> > > > > - And in third situation, the actions we would have

> > performed in

> > > > > ignorance could be completely avoided by

transforming

> > our lives

> > > > > like roasted

> > > > > seeds don't even germinate. If you come to Me you

> will

> > attain

> > > > Me only...

> > > > > - As one seed gives many fruits, one thought gives

birth

> to

> > many

> > > > > actions - gross or subtle, and thus it keeps on

> multiplying

> > > > without our

> > > > > knowledge. Becoming aware of our thought process is

very

> > > > important. So

> > > > > many things can be stop our thoughts before it takes

any

> > grosser

> > > > form. With

> > > > > higher evolution, so many thoughts can be stopped at

the

> > source

> > > > level - not

> > > > > to let them come down even at the thought level. One

> > thought not

> > > > only

> > > > > impacts us but it impacts lot many people around us and

> the

> > > > environment we

> > > > > live in. It not only gives immediate

> results/pleasure/pain

> > but

> > > > it carries

> > > > > consequences in future also. It not only affects our

> > present

> > > > lfve but many

> > > > > lives to come. So one has to be very very careful of

> their

> > > thoughts.

> > > > > - At one time some one asked Babaji that what kind of

> > freedom do we

> > > > > have... He gave another beautiful example. A cow has

> been

> > tied

> > > > with a long

> > > > > rope. This cow has 3 possibilities:

> > > > > - circle around the pole, reduce the length of rope

> and

> > be

> > > > > miserable, i.e., remain entangled in worldly

affairs,

> > loose the

> > > > > freedom and be miserable

> > > > > - use the freedom of long rope and move around

> smartly.

> > One

> > > > > almost feels free but one knows that there is still

> rope

> > tied

> > > > to a pole.

> > > > > - or be really smart and by break the rope from the

> pole,

> > > > > cow has enough strength to free herself permanently.

> > > > Sarvadharmaan

> > > > > parityajya...

> > > > >

> > > > > Hope this additional clarification will be beneficial in

> > > > understanding how

> > > > > our blue prints are determined and what type of

> karmas/actions

> > we

> > > should

> > > > > engage in.

> > > > > humble regards,

> > > > > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > > > >

> > > > > On 1/15/08, anil nevatia <anilkamail@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > When God plans to execute as per his blue print why

> > disturb the

> > > > same.

> > > > > > When God descended the first human, it is was clear that

> the

> > > > beginning of

> > > > > > the end had started, so why to say and do good things ?

> > > > > > Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

February 16, 2008

God's plan cannot be disturbed. God's plan can be viewed under two

different time zones - My Desperate Time (MDT) and God's Own Time (GOT)

" I know discouragement comes easy, but I also know things happen when

God is ready for them to happen and not a second sooner. God knows why

he wants things to happen in the order they have to. We just need to

be ready when they come. "

One can recognize that there are two different time zones going on

when it comes to correlating God's will and our experience. One I'll

call My Desperate Time (MDT) and the other, God's Own Time (GOT).

Most of us run on MDT. MDT defines our reality. It's what we see and

feel always. We are conscious of it the minute we rise up in the

morning until we put our weary heads on the pillow at night. We

measure pleasure and pain by it; we judge our overall state-of-being

by it.

God, on the other hand, exists in another time zone entirely. In GOT,

His will is always done, and nothing is ever late. GOT also takes into

account the MDT of everyone, which can often get tangled up. You see

there are as many MDT zones as there are people, and that means they

can often be in conflict. But with God there is never any conflict.

There is only one GOT and as far as He is concerned, everything is

right on schedule.This is God's plan.

This is why it is utterly silly to wonder if God has heard our prayers

based on whether or not He has acted in MDT. God always hears our

prayers ? He has most likely already answered them ? he just answered

them in GOT - in God's Own Time.

Most of our issues with God are all about time zones. Think about the

hapless Bible character, Job. Job was smack in the middle of MDT all

the while he was suffering, and his best friends were trying to figure

out why God wasn't doing anything in MDT. Well, we know now that God

rarely does; He is always in GOT and we can see that now, in Job's

case, because his life ultimately caught up with GOT. Eventually, all

MDT will be GOT. In fact, that will be what heaven is all about. We

will all be kicking back in God's Own Time.

So faith is mostly all about time zones.Have faith in Jesus. When you

pray, know that you were heard, and move ahead, believing in GOT and ,

MDT won't be so desperate -God's Own time and My Desperate Time.

yeshu rathenam

--------

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Loving Divine,

> Humble pranams.

> You and Me are as much God as rest of His creation and non-creation

> is!!!

> with deep love and humble regards,

> always at Thy Holy Feet

> Manjula Patel

>

> ---

>

> Respected One !,

> Namasthe !!!

> Yes, Ishwara Chaithanyam is in everyone and everything in equal

> measure. Lord Krishna Himself says, " I am the fraud of the

> fraudsters " .

> It is the DOMINANCE of quality (Guna - Satva, rajas and Tamas) of

> the nature that is exposed in one's thoughts/words/deeds.

> Let us take everything as a GOD's Plan, as the topic of the

> discussions itself suggests.

> With best regards,

> vm

> vavamenon

> ---

> Loving Divine,

> Humble pranams.

> I respect your sentiments about sanatan dharma.

> If we are open to learn and accept God in all - vasudevam sarvam...

> I would also accept that whatever rubbish is out there is also

> God...!!!

> With deep love and regards,

> alwasy at Thy Divine Feet.

>

> Manjula Patel

> ---

> Respected One,

> Namasthe !!!

> SATHYAMEVA JAYATHE !!!

> Our Great Maharishis have through countless scriptures called every

human being on this earth top SEEK AND REALISE BY EVERY ONE HIMSELF

THE " ONE AND ONLY TRUTH EXPRESSED IN TRILLIONS OF FORMS THOSE CAN BE

SEEN WITH OUR NAKED EYES AND THOSE CANNOT BE SEEN AS THE PARTS OF THIS

UNIVERSE, WHICH INCLUDES THE AIR WE BREATHE AND THE WATER WE DRINK " .

> Tell me which other brain than Vyaasa Maharshi (or Valmeeki

Maharshi) has given such infinite scientific knowledge in such a short

700 slokas ?

>

> THOSE WERE THE TRUTHS THAT THEY EXPERIENCED, AND ENJOYING THE

ETERNAL BLISS, JOY AND HAPPINESS (not the short-lived pleasures), OUT

OF COMPASSION, THEY TRIED TO GIVE US ALL INHERITORS WHAT THEY

EXPERIENCED BY STRUCTURING OUR LIVES IN SUCH A WAY THAT WE REMAIN

CONNECTED TO THE DIVINE EVERY MOMENT OF OUR LIVES.

>

> Your assumption that my mail is not related to GITAJI is wrong. My

response is very much about GITA only, because if one truly

understands Bhagavad Gita, one needs not take the help of some

misleading and distracting foreign dogma. Anyone who truly

understands Bhagavad Gita understands everything. He remains

connected to Lord Krishna eternally and becomes the best and perfect

devotee, serving everyone else.

>

> Bhagavad Gita is the concentrated form of sanatana dharma principles

and traditions / the science of Ishwar, His Creation that is this

infinitely indescribable Universe, the purpose of our lives on this

earth, etc., so beautifully explained through the 1400 plus

authoritative scriptures and countless other interpretations. The

Science of Creation as expounded by Sanatana Dharma, especially the

quality of OMNIPRESENCE of Ishwara in each animate and inanimate part

of the Creation (including you and me), with the most scientific and

fool-proof " LAW OF KARMA "

>

> For example, in sanatana dharma, the scriptures, the principle of

LAW OF KARMA, YOGA PRACTICISES, etc. have not changed and Ishwar has

expressed Himself through these Vedas and the universe itself.

>

> If you are truly looking for the " mystical meanings of the

scriptures " , please read LIFE DIVINE by Ramana Maharishi and also

books from Shri Aurobindo to know about our scriptures.

>

> please please please do not dilute the ALL-INCLUSIVE, UNIVERSAL,

SCIENTIFIC AND EXPERIMENTABLE/EXPERIENCEABLE sanatana dharma

Principles and Traditions. That is my only request.

>

> I seek your forgiveness for any statement of mine given above being

violent in anyway.

> That is my only request.

> With best regards,

> vm

>

> P.S. : If my above email has not answered all your points in your

mail, I am answering them below, point by point :

>

> Your Statement : Those who will understand mystism of Gitaji, will

understand other scriptures too.

> There is no mysticism in GITA, If you understand about the

indestructibility of ATMA which is part of the PARAM-ATMA, and how our

ignorance has covered (Avaran) the ATMA and also by which methods and

practicises, we can remove the veil of ignorance to see, realize and

experience the ATMA (SELF) which propels us from moment to moment.

When we experience the ATMA CHAITHANYAM within us, how blissful we

become, which is the eternal nature of our SELF. The Sat-Chit-Anandam

which we are craving for is already within you….

>

> Your Statement: I am open and respectful of other scriptures too as

they all talk about only one God.

> " ONE GOD " is the only truth that it said in these books, .... yet

it's application is something quite different.

>

> Your Statement: I thank my Guruji for showing me the path.

>

> For me, this entire universe is a university and I try to learn from

anything and everything that comes across/interacts with me. For me,

every source of knowledge is a teacher and guru. I accepted Lord

Krishna as my Guru, then Vyaasa Deva, Valmeeki Maharishi, then

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Ramana Maharishi, and countless others, my

parents, teachers in schools and colleges, persons with whom I have

discussed and exchanged knowledge-based spiritual information, and all

my surroundings, etc. I remain eternally indebted to one and all.

> Thank you.

> Regards,

> vm

>

> (modified by moderator)

>

> ---

>

> Dear,

> According to our vedas there are 84 Lac spices on this earth.

> Everything works on Dharma. The karmas one does now reaps the fruits

> later, in this birth or next birth. Prarabdha- Agami- Sanchita 3

> types of Karma. The prarabdha karma done is the arrow let out of

> bow, (said by Adi Sankara in his script Vivekachudamani). Even this

> Prarabdha karma gets washed with certain slokas in which the pala

> sruthi said.

> Saints like Ramana, Sri Ramakrishna, Tukaram, Sakubai, Alwar etc

> underwent sufferings due to prarabda karmas. But the differance

> between them and us is that the sufferings was never felt by them,

> for us a little pain also causes havock. Ex: Saint Ramana had

> surgery done on his leg without any anesthisia and anti biotic tabs.

> Dear sadaks, please understand that GOD is much above plans,

> distrubance etc. Level of GOD is Paramanandham.

> One attains HIM only by complete purity of mind and thought, with

> constant . Bakthi.

> Common sense- To reach divinity or have vision of GOD everyone knows

> the difficulty to erase our Dur Gunas. Simply like that can anyone

> think of distrubance. But GOD gets distrubed ONLY in circumstances

> when HIS Bakthas are distrubed, but not made to distrube. This can

> be known from many puranas. Ex: Jada Bharatha when he was to be

> given human sacrifice GOD rescued. But Jada Bharatha never cried for

> help. So also when Adi Sankara was to be slained.

> GOD is said by vedas as " Aprameyam " . means beyond all five senses.

> In that case with what anyone can distrube HIM

> B.Sathyanarayan.

> ---

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> >

> > A lot has been said on this subject, and all of it makes sense and

> > is useful!

> >

> > My add: Can we really disturb God's plan without knowing God and

> His

> > Plan? We can of course say whatever happens to some one must be

> > God's plan, and take great solace in it and move on to resolve if

> > faced with problem after first accepting or rather welcoming it.

> As

> > Manjulaji pointed correctly in her analogy(as I understand it),

> the

> > question is what is to be done now that the arrow has left the

> bow.

> > We can act to the best of our ability to resolve it in a manner

> > which is fair, is the only requirement God has laid on us. Rest is

> > His/Her problem! (Gita: Yogeshu Karmakaushalam....)

> >

> > Also Yeshuji has stressed Trust in God, which is very important

> too!

> > An unbroken trust in God to take care of problem one faces works.

> > What happens in such case is, either problem is solved in one's

> > favor or even more important than that is one gets strength to face

> > it regardless of the outcome. God changes the person rather than

> > his/her circumstances or people who may have hurt him/her. Isn't

> > this more of a miracle than otherwise? God is fairness in us! This

> > is the way I see God is changing the blue print or better yet is

> > modifying the blue print for such devotee out of His total freedom

> > at every moment of his/her life.

> > Now if one knows the meaning of God, the results of changing His

> > plan doesn't arise at all.

> >

> > Pratap Bhatt

> >

> > -

> --

> >

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nobody or anything can disturb GOD and His Plans. GOD is said

> > > as " Apprameyam " means beyond all senses and objects. Everything

> is

> > > set and computerised and networked and part of His divine plan.

> > >

> > > B.Sathyanarayan

> > >

> > > --------------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > God's plan cannot be disturbed. Is it a blue-print, as someone

> has

> > > suggested in this discussion. Let's learn from this anecdote.

> > > We sipped the hot, dark coffee from oversized clay mugs and

> talked

> > > quietly about the real issues of life. Both of us were in a

> season

> > > with some unanswered questions in our lives. We talked about

> > > trusting God in the midst of problems, worries and anxiety. It's

> > not

> > > always an easy thing to do.

> > >

> > > Every day we make a choice to either trust God ... or not. We

> can

> > > worry and stew when things are not clear, or we can choose to

> > trust

> > > Him. We can choose to believe He is faithful and that He will

> > direct

> > > our path in His time ... and it will not be too late.

> > >

> > > It is a challenge to ask ourselves, " Do I really trust God? "

> Often

> > > with our lips we say, " Yes, " but with our worried lives we

> > say, " No. "

> > >

> > > Do I believe it when God makes a promise in His Word, the Bible?

> He

> > > says...

> > >

> > > " I will instruct you and guide you along the best pathway for

> your

> > > life. I will advise you and watch your progress, " This is God's

> > plan.

> > >

> > > The choice you make today to believe those words and trust God

> will

> > > bring a result in your life...listen...

> > >

> > > " ...abiding love surrounds those who trust in the Lord. So

> > rejoice

> > > in him, all those who are His and shout for joy all those who

> > choose

> > > to obey Him, " the Bible says.

> > >

> > > Choosing to trust God in the confusing times in our lives

> releases

> > > the peace and the comfort of His love and it will surround

> > > us...holding us secure through the winds of change and

> > uncertainty.

> > > Our lives will be marked by a joy and a rejoicing that will be

> the

> > > by-product of His surrounding love.

> > >

> > > Choosing to believe that God will guide you in the best pathway

> for

> > > your life frees you from the anxiety of worry. Trust is a choice

> > we

> > > can make in a God who has proven Himself trustworthy to

> countless

> > > believers.

> > > Choose to trust Him today with the question marks in your life.

> > > God's plan never fails.

> > >

> > > yeshu rathenam

> > >

> > > --------------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > Hare Krsna!!

> > > Hi Manjula Patel. Thank you very much for posting that example

> > about

> > > the arrow. It really changed my life. Thanks thanks thanks!

> > >

> > > Daniel

> > >

> > > --------------------------------

> --

> > --

> > >

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Divine All,

> > > > Humble pranams.

> > > > Thanks to all for their encouraging / inspiring words. It is

> > > nothing

> > > > but praising God / Guru.

> > > > The following is in response to Danielji's inquiry:

> > > >

> > > > * Please refer to Madanji's email sent on Jan 19.

> > > > * 'Blue Print' is the word used in original email by

> Anilji

> > > and I

> > > > continued using that word so that he can also relate the

> answer

> > to

> > > his

> > > > inquiry. What Anilji meant was, if destiny is fixed, why

> > bother?

> > > My

> > > > response was to say that destiny can be changed with our

> present

> > > > action. We have to bear the fruits/consequences of our past

> > action

> > > > which we can not change (though some of it can be changed by

> an

> > > able

> > > > Guru) but we can change the course of our present and future

> > > actions.

> > > > * Arrow analogy was used to expand further on karma theory.

> > > > Gitaji (essence of Upanishads) doesn't elaborate on Karma but

> > > > Upanishads (Mundaka or Brihadaranyaka ???) do:

> > > > - Sanchita (accumulation of all karma from past

> lives),

> > > >

> > > > - Prarabdha (from total accumulation the portion is

> > > worked out in present life),

> > > > - Agami (from present life what we keep on adding to

> > > Sanchita that will come to us in future / future

> > > > lives) and

> > > > - Kriyamana (karma that is being worked out

> > immediately).

> > > >

> > > > Gitaji talks about karma from tamas, rajas and satva

> perspective.

> > > > * Be aware of your action... BG 2:47.

> > > > * How one falls into the trap of bondage... BG 3:27, 5:12

> > > > * Come to Me... BG 12:8, 12

> > > > * Controlling ones thoughts... BG 6:25, 26, 35, BG 17:16

> > > > * Impact of karma... BG 18:12

> > > > * There are many slokas that reference non-doership of the

> > > action

> > > > through out Gitaji. BG Chapter 2, 4, 5... that can help with

> the

> > > 2nd

> > > > and 3rd arrow situation. E.g., BG 4:9, 19, 37 (roasted seed

> > don't

> > > > germinate), 41. BG 5:7

> > > >

> > > > This might be beneficial and encouraging to my Christian

> friends

> > to

> > > > read a comparative book called 'The Torah, the Bible and Kriya

> > > Yoga'.

> > > > Hope I have covered your inquiry.

> > > > humble regards,

> > > > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > > >

> > > > Manjula Patel

> > > >

> > > > ------------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > -

> > > >

> > > > There is no doubt about it that HE IS THE GREATEST

> > > > SCIENTIST,PHILOSOPHER AND WHAT NOT. If you look at the way

> > humans

> > > are

> > > > made, brain, which controls everything is at the top [satvik],

> > > heart

> > > > which controls physical functioning and emotions is in the

> centre

> > > > [Rajasik] and the excretory organs at the bottom[Tamasik].Can

> > any

> > > one

> > > > else do a better job than this. Let us all surrender to HIM

> > > totally.

> > > > G.Vaidyanathan.

> > > > ------------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > -

> > > >

> > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > ----------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > ------

> > > > >

> > > > > Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances.

> > > > > I read what Manjulaji wrote and I said WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!!!

> > > > > I'll ask some questions later, but for now my question is,

> can

> > > you

> > > > > cite a verse from the Bhagavad Gita that corresponds to what

> > you

> > > say

> > > > > here? I mean, the examples about the arrow. And what is the

> > blue

> > > > > print? If I know the term, I know it in Spanish. My Bhagavad

> > > Gita is

> > > > > in Spanish.

> > > > > Thank you!!! Stay well

> > > > > " Daniel " Tkach

> > > > > ----------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > ------

> > > > > THANKS FOR INFO.GOD BLESS U AND YR FAMILY

> > > > > chatur patel

> > > > >

> > > > > ----------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > ------

> > > > > Thanks for the nice explanations.G.Vaidyanathan..

> > > > > ----------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > ------

> > > > > The " Babaji " should call himself " Father " and teach in

> > Christian

> > > > > setting. Hindu's and real Babaji do not accept the Bible

> myth

> > > and God.

> > > > > Classyoga

> > > > > ----------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > -----

> > > > >

> > > > > I can write volumes on the " genesis " of bible refuting every

> > > logic or

> > > > > its lack of it. Let me say in short that quoting bible

> would

> > > never be

> > > > > adequate for you to explain what " sanatana dharma " is or

> what

> > > Lord

> > > > > Krishna gave to the world as TOTAL KNOWLEDGE IN BHAGAVAD

> > GITA.

> > > In

> > > > > fact, hundreds of stories appearing in bible have their

> > origins

> > > in

> > > > > Indian scriptures.

> > > > > With best regards,

> > > > > Sanatana Dharma is a STAND ALONE / WHOLESOME, UNIVERSAL,

> > > SCIENTIFIC

> > > > > INTERPRETATIONS of ISHWARA (Lord Krishna), His creation that

> > is

> > > this

> > > > > universe and its mysteries.

> > > > > With best regards,

> > > > > vm

> > > > > Message shortened by Moderator.....

> > > > > ----------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > ------

> > > > > My intention was not to hurt any one's feelings. I was

> > sharing

> > > it to

> > > > > show how we become the creator of our own blue print which I

> > > indicated

> > > > > in the beginning and I thought the example was appropriate

> > > otherwise I

> > > > > would not have shared.

> > > > >

> > > > > Scriptures are written using mystical language so one can

> > > interpret

> > > > > them according to their level of understanding and spiritual

> > > > > experiences. I am not imposing my ideas on any one, the

> > example

> > > > > inspired me so I shared, if it doesn't to you simply drop

> it ;-

> > )

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, I do believe that scriptures of Sanatan Dharma are more

> > > elaborate

> > > > > and inclusive in directing our thought process towards God.

> > > Those who

> > > > > will understand mystism of Gitaji, will understand other

> > > scriptures

> > > > > too. I am open and respectful of other scriptures too as

> they

> > > all

> > > > > talk about only one God and I thank my Guruji for showing me

> > the

> > > path.

> > > > >

> > > > > with humble regards,

> > > > > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > > > > " Manjula Patel "

> > > > > Message shortened by Moderator.....

> > > > > ----------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > ------

> > > > >

> > > > > dear divine souls.

> > > > > this is my first msg to you. my sincere Gratitude to You,

> > manula

> > > ji

> > > > > for puting forwards this mail.

> > > > >

> > > > > jai sri ram

> > > > > kuldip

> > > > > ----------------------------

> --

> > --

> > > ------

> > > > > , " Manjula Patel "

> <manjumaa@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Loving Divine,

> > > > > > Pranam.

> > > > > > Very beautiful things have been said in response to

> Anilji's

> > > beautiful

> > > > > > questions.

> > > > > > Something I heard from Babaji was very enlightening for me

> > so

> > > would

> > > > > like to

> > > > > > share it with you all and hope it would do the same for

> you

> > > too...

> > > > > > The following are not exact words but my

> > > > > > understanding/interpretation/clicking of what He

> explained...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - We are the creator of our own blue print. Something

> > from

> > > Bible

> > > > > > might be beneficial here. Beautiful symbolism. When

> > Adam-

> > > Eve

> > > > > were created

> > > > > > by God in the very beginning of His creation, they were

> > > naked,

> > > > i.e.,

> > > > > > they were devoid of body consciousness. When they ate

> > the

> > > fruit

> > > > > from the

> > > > > > prohibited tree, they became aware of their nakedness,

> > > i.e., when

> > > > > they

> > > > > > did their 1st karma with expectation of enjoying the

> > fruits

> > > of

> > > > > it, they came

> > > > > > down to body awareness, i.e., 'i am the doer...' or

> they

> > > became ego

> > > > > > centric. Thus they have to bear the consequences of

> the

> > > fruits

> > > > > of their

> > > > > > action. They became shameful. So really when God

> > > descended the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > human, the intention was not to end but make it

> immortal

> > > just

> > > > > like Him. We

> > > > > > human missed out understanding it. the intention has

> > still

> > > > > remain the same

> > > > > > be immortal like Him freeing ourselves from the body

> > > > > consciousness. As

> > > > > > Bhagwan said if you come to Me you will attain Me

> only...

> > > > > > - There are three types of actions that determine our

> > blue

> > > print.

> > > > > > Babaji gives an example of a bow and 3 arrows:

> > > > > > - One arrow has already left from the bow aimed at a

> > > dear. Most

> > > > > > of the time the arrow that has left can't be

> reverted,

> > > it sure

> > > > > > will attain

> > > > > > the result of killing that dear. We don't have any

> > > control over

> > > > > > that arrow.

> > > > > > - Second arrow is set on the bow, we might let go

> > towards

> > > > > > the target or we might not. Here the action is in

> > > motion, yet

> > > > > > we have some

> > > > > > control over it to stop it even in the middle and

> thus

> > > stop

> > > > > the fruits of

> > > > > > such action.

> > > > > > - Third arrow is still sitting in the quiver over

> > which

> > > we have

> > > > > > complete control not to even take it out.

> > > > > > - In other words,

> > > > > > - we have done some actions in past of which we have

> > to

> > > bear the

> > > > > > consequences. However, He said that if you have

> taken

> > > refuge

> > > > > of an able

> > > > > > Guru, He can make the target missed, e.g., by

> clapping,

> > > > > > diverting the attention of that dear and make him

> run

> > > away

> > > > > > before the arrow

> > > > > > hits him!!!

> > > > > > - Some actions are in progress but as soon as we

> > become

> > > aware of

> > > > > > our action, we can alter the course of such action.

> > > > > > - And in third situation, the actions we would have

> > > performed in

> > > > > > ignorance could be completely avoided by

> transforming

> > > our lives

> > > > > > like roasted

> > > > > > seeds don't even germinate. If you come to Me you

> > will

> > > attain

> > > > > Me only...

> > > > > > - As one seed gives many fruits, one thought gives

> birth

> > to

> > > many

> > > > > > actions - gross or subtle, and thus it keeps on

> > multiplying

> > > > > without our

> > > > > > knowledge. Becoming aware of our thought process is

> very

> > > > > important. So

> > > > > > many things can be stop our thoughts before it takes

> any

> > > grosser

> > > > > form. With

> > > > > > higher evolution, so many thoughts can be stopped at

> the

> > > source

> > > > > level - not

> > > > > > to let them come down even at the thought level. One

> > > thought not

> > > > > only

> > > > > > impacts us but it impacts lot many people around us and

> > the

> > > > > environment we

> > > > > > live in. It not only gives immediate

> > results/pleasure/pain

> > > but

> > > > > it carries

> > > > > > consequences in future also. It not only affects our

> > > present

> > > > > lfve but many

> > > > > > lives to come. So one has to be very very careful of

> > their

> > > > thoughts.

> > > > > > - At one time some one asked Babaji that what kind of

> > > freedom do we

> > > > > > have... He gave another beautiful example. A cow has

> > been

> > > tied

> > > > > with a long

> > > > > > rope. This cow has 3 possibilities:

> > > > > > - circle around the pole, reduce the length of rope

> > and

> > > be

> > > > > > miserable, i.e., remain entangled in worldly

> affairs,

> > > loose the

> > > > > > freedom and be miserable

> > > > > > - use the freedom of long rope and move around

> > smartly.

> > > One

> > > > > > almost feels free but one knows that there is still

> > rope

> > > tied

> > > > > to a pole.

> > > > > > - or be really smart and by break the rope from the

> > pole,

> > > > > > cow has enough strength to free herself permanently.

> > > > > Sarvadharmaan

> > > > > > parityajya...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hope this additional clarification will be beneficial in

> > > > > understanding how

> > > > > > our blue prints are determined and what type of

> > karmas/actions

> > > we

> > > > should

> > > > > > engage in.

> > > > > > humble regards,

> > > > > > always at Thy Divine Feet

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 1/15/08, anil nevatia <anilkamail@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > When God plans to execute as per his blue print why

> > > disturb the

> > > > > same.

> > > > > > > When God descended the first human, it is was clear that

> > the

> > > > > beginning of

> > > > > > > the end had started, so why to say and do good things ?

> > > > > > > Does Gita provide any insight into this query ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

February 19, 2008

Namaste,

There is NO you or me or the creation. Geetha Sri Krishna said that he

is the manifestation in all. The 6 Gunas such as jealosy, greed etc

only seperates. Otherwise all are one (Advaitham). In Maha Pralayam

the whole universe goes in Vishnu and again manifests from HIM. This

concept is that all are one and the same.

GOD is omnipresent everyone knows. However tuning into His frequency

through total surrender we can change His course. Mother Droupati in

MahaBharat called out to God Bhagavan in distress, but until she

lifted both her hands in total surrender, He did not come to her

rescue. Similarly, mind intellect and action should be perfrectly

aligned to attain HIM. You can receive call on mobile only when,

mobile is switched on, coded to receive calls, battery in power. The

energy from tower is available all over the place in range. But to

receive one needs to be tuned in. One is not differant from Bagavan.

This is said by Saint Tukaram, Adi Sankara, etc

Many Bakthas have called for Bagavan and Bagavan was there. One can

read Baktha Mala Charitha.