What is the most effective way to offer prayers?

January 21, 2008

I would like to know the most effective method for revering deities in temples to invoke spirituality in our mind. Does Gita address anything about how to pray / offer reverence etc.?

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Gita Talk Guidelines

FROM THE MODERATOR

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible.

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

January 22, 2008

Priy Aatman, There are as many ways to pray god as people are & will be on the earth. Even more than that. Whatever suits U. Some people pray God as Nirakaar (Abstract) form. Other pray as Rama, Krishna, Surya, Shakti, Shiv, Ganesh, etc... It depends on your inner faculties (antah karan) what type of prayer will apeal to you. In Chapter 7, 9, 10 God has indicated to be present in various forms. In nut shell whatever thing, person, situation, event, place, Time that is beautiful, blissful, cheering that you see, That is only & only God. thanx, Raja.

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

If I may emphasise one aspect of prayer, it is that

prayer should be for expressing our gratitudes first,

for all things we have been given. Such prayer should

be impersonal when asking things we need. Our

scriptures are full of such community prayers. I as an

individual is only a initiator or a triger point for

Totality to fulfill desires of wellness of all

including I. I see such prayers are initiated by God

to take care of Herself/Himself disguised as

apparantly distressed devotee, or as illness or unjust

people in a society. By answering prayers God helps

restore faith in people and thus protects Dharma.

I have seen impersonal desires get fulfilled

appropriately.

Namaskar...Pratap

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Prayer is a message that you want to be vibrating within you all the time. The highest form of prayer which we can feel/do/experience is that of ' action with feelings of full and complete surrender with full reverance and devotion onto that Supreme'.

The Gita verse:9.27 says this/translates to this message below: and you can pray like this below.

"Whatever I do,

Whatever I eat,

Whatever I offer asa an oblation to sacred fire,

Whatever I bestow as a gift,

Whatever I give out as a charity,

Whatever I do as a way of penance,

I OFFER it all onto You (Supreme Consciousness)."

Also, after any of your prayers in a way you believe as and surrendering everything onto that God (with the attitude of surrender) do not worry about the output again whether it is invoking spirituality in our minds or not. Just do whatever you feel in ur heart ur duty is with the attitude of the SURRENDER and that itself is a prayer. Then, that SUPEREM will direct your heart the way it was intended to be.

Have a nice wonderful day.

Regards,

Bharathi

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Dear sadhak friends,

My namaskarams to you all.

Well, we now have a good question to ponder upon to find valid answers though it is not easy.

I am not an exponent of Gita. I wish put below few of my own thoughts

and beliefs.

Quality and effectiveness of prayers are not scalable in my view.

Prayer is just a medium through which one integrates one's soul with

God and Nature for inner awakening.

Though there are countless versions and methodologies adopted by many

great souls in the past, each one does it differently in accordance to the environment he / she inherited.

I feel, a satisfying prayer would be one that is carried out with

those who may not have the same physical / mental ability and

privilages that you may have. If one is able to take along such

helpless souls while praying by giving them the same opportunity and

privilage you seem to enjoy, then I feel it would carry more meaning

than doing it by self for self satisfaction.

Children, helplessly aged, sick and destitute , physically / mentally

disabled and other such minds if gathered together and channelized

into divine duties, it would be bring better sanctity and effect in

any prayer. This is what the basics on which Temples / churches /

Mosques were created by our elders for public praying though this

concept is progressively forgotten for commercial exploitations

No matter how grand or lavishness is thrown into a prayer, no matter

how meticulous the rituals are carried out, how louder the chanting of mantras / shlokas / songs etc., these would have no meaning or

effective unless one is able to do it for the benefit of less

privilaged with the motive to give them peace of mind and turning them into good divine souls.

If one is able to adopt this method and ensure the same is duplicated

effectively by each beneficiary in a holistic manner, then changing

the society as a whole becomes less difficult and would bring tangible results.

Regards

Dharmarajan

Mumbai

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Most effective is to address by speaking to the Deity as if He (or She) can hear you. Speak frankly, what is on your mind. If you want something then ASK for it. Don't recite mindless prayers. Direct communication is best. Y/s, Richard

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Namasthe.

I feel, the following points are some of the effective methods:

1) Pure Bhakthi/Love towards the GOD, without expecting anything in return

2) Treating all living creatures equally

3) Selfless Service to the society

Regards

N Guruvelavan

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Kshayavridhivinirmuktha <kalaalapa wrote: I would like to know the most effective method for revering deities in temples to invoke spirituality in our mind. Does Gita address anything about how to pray / offer reverence etc.? --------- Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in

understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Find them fast with Search.

January 23, 2008

The issue is like dharmaja in mahabharata, in vishnusahasranaama

saying:''kimekam daivatam loke kimvapyekam parayanam stuvantah kam

arachayantah prapnuyurmanavassubham'

This is to say this quest is ever unending and it is upto one's

effort and taste.

One needs to pick up answer and method to obtain 'subham'

permanently or periodically on this earth in one's span of life may

be a few decades.

Acharya sankara and several others said puja, japa dhyana, stotra

parayana etc are the modes adopting which the corresponding deity

whether be in temple or house or anywhere would be pleased

God responds without fail because God is waiting to be remembered by

the needy people and bhaktas.. There is a surity in that' name

bhaktah pranasyanti.' So one cannot prescribe for certain in this.

It is the prayer that you should do to please..

Krishna says in gita 'sarvadharman...mamekam saranam vraja'

meaning the smarana and belief upon him is the only duty and one

should not skip that even while executing his prime duty.

therefore the best way is the convenience of the individual, the

choice of mode he makes and the circumstances in which he is placed.

mind is very important factor and boon gifted by god that will tell

oriented by right guru that this could be the choice and practising

that with a tinge of vairagya there would be peace and happiness for

sure.

so we have to culture and cultivate our mind that it floats with the

form of stuti and that would definitely be liked by god since he is

basically flexible and desires to help appropriately the bhakta.

na me bhaktah pranasyanti ,memeva ichha, aham rakshayishyami,

yathecchasi tatha kuru etc are the words of bhagavan

as a matter practical gesture bhagavan said one flower, one fruit

and one leaf, one drop of water would be good enough to appease and

win his grace.

it is best to remmeber his name in one word or in several words and

keep doing sat karmas with which concerned get happy and their

happiness coupled with the happiness of god would be a great

strength to all.

subham

prabhakar

---

-------

I appreciate the value of prayer as expressed. Notice

the wording of Mr.Guruvelavan summaries the gist of

prayer.The mind, body, and action should coordinate

with prayer then the effect is focused oterwise prayer

are sloka with meaning, vain word with no value.

Pray is effective by living it.

Paul Ponniah.

---

-------

, raja gurdasani <muhurmuhu

wrote:

>

> Priy Aatman,

> There are as many ways to pray god as people are & will be on

the earth. Even more than that. Whatever suits U. Some people pray

God as Nirakaar (Abstract) form. Other pray as Rama, Krishna, Surya,

Shakti, Shiv, Ganesh, etc...

> It depends on your antah karan what type of prayer will apeal u.

In Chapter 7, 9, 10 God has indicated to be prsent in various forms.

In nut shell whatever thing, person, situation, event, place, Time

that is beautiful, blissful, cheering u see, That is only & only God.

> thanx,

> Raja.

>

> Kshayavridhivinirmuktha <kalaalapa wrote:

>

> I would like to know the most effective method for revering

deities in temples to invoke spirituality in our mind.

> Does Gita address anything about how to pray / offer reverence

etc.?

---

------

FROM THE MODERATOR

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

MODERATOR Ram Ram

January 24, 2008

In Bhagvat Gita it is clearly mentioned, how we can pray effectively

to God.

In the last chapter of the Gita, Bhagwan krishna says that if

all else fails in all the above mentioned Bhakti types. Then just

become Mine (God's, Bhagwan's), (man mana mad madbhakto madyaji mam namaskuru).

Become my devotee (Bhakta), be devoted to Me, worship Me, prostrate before Me,

and then God (bhagwan) assures that one who does this will attain God (Bhagwan)

without any doubts.

Simply by prostrating (Namaskar) in front of Bhagwan one can attain the highest

goal i.e. God(Bhagwan).

It is the ultimate thing and easy to do for any body. It is

told by Lord Krishna in Gita 18:65. Hearing this

all the doubts of Arjuna are wiped out and he regains strength.

Other ways of praying are by offering water , flowers or leaves or

pouring milk and many other things mentioned for effective prayers.

But the main point is become a devotee (bhakta) of God and prostrate before Him

then you inevitably attain the Bhagwan (god). This is told by the God himself.

Just follow it.

, raja gurdasani <muhurmuhu

wrote:

>

> Priy Aatman,

> There are as many ways to pray god as people are & will be on

the earth. Even more than that. Whatever suits U. Some people pray

God as Nirakaar (Abstract) form. Other pray as Rama, Krishna, Surya,

Shakti, Shiv, Ganesh, etc...

> It depends on your antah karan what type of prayer will apeal u.

In Chapter 7, 9, 10 God has indicated to be prsent in various forms.

In nut shell whatever thing, person, situation, event, place, Time

that is beautiful, blissful, cheering u see, That is only & only God.

> thanx,

> Raja.

>

> Kshayavridhivinirmuktha <kalaalapa wrote:

>

> I would like to know the most effective method for revering

deities in temples to invoke spirituality in our mind.

> Does Gita address anything about how to pray / offer reverence

etc.? --------------------------

----------------

Gita Talk Guidelines

FROM THE MODERATOR

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. GITA

TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas

clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore,

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will

only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate

your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that

they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a

particular individual since the message is going to the entire

group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be

posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the

group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to

Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed wherever possible.

MODERATOR Ram Ram

January 25, 2008

Shree Hari Ram Ram Priya Sadhak, mahatava-purna prasan ke liye dhanyavad! In my humble opinion prayer is something very personal and confidential, preferably should be

performed in a private setting and it may or may not work in a Temple setting. Recently, came across Gandhiji's book "My Religion", on the subject of prayer, some excerpts from that follow: God has thousand names, or rather, He is Nameless. We may worship or pray to Him by whichever name that pleases us. Some call Him Rama, some Krishna, others call Him Rahim and yet others call Him God. All worship the same spirit, but as all foods do not agree with all, all worship the same spirit, but as all foods do not agree with all, all names do not appeal to all. Each chooses the name according to his association and He being the In-Dweller, all Powerful and Omniscient knows our innermost feelings and responds according to our deserts. Sincerely praying to God is nothing but a sacred alliance between God and man whereby the aspirant attains his deliverance from the clutches of ignorance and darkness. But a heartfelt prayer is not a recitation with the lips, instead it is the

yearning from within which expresses itself in every word, every act, nay, every thought of man. When an evil thought successfully assails him, he may know that he has offered but a lip prayer and similarly with regard to an evil word escaping his lips or an evil act done by him. Real prayer is an absolute shield and protection against this trinity of evils. Success does not always come at the very first effort, we have to cultivate illimitable patience if we want to realize the efficacy of prayer. There will be darkness, disappointment and even worse; but we must have courage enough to battle against all these and not succumb to cowardice. There is no such thing as retreat from prayer. The man of prayer is at peace with himself and with the whole world; the man who goes about the

affairs of the world without a prayerful heart will be miserable and will make the world also miserable. Therefore, begin your day with prayer and make it so soulful that it may remain with you until the evening. Close the day with prayer so that you may have a peaceful night from dreams and the nightmares. Do not worry about the form of prayer, let it be in any form, it should be such as can put us into communion with the Divine. Only, whatever be the form, let not the spirit wander while the words of prayer run out of your mouth. It is better in prayer to have a heart without words than

words without a heart. There are many verses in Gitaji on the subject, reference to some: Prayer to Sagun Brahm: (6-47, 7-1, 7-29/30, 8-7, 8-14, 9-14, 9-22, 9-30, 10-1, 11-55, 12-2) Prayer to Nirgun Brahm: (4-34, 4-39, 5-8, 5-13, 5-24/26, 6-25, 8-11, 8-13, 9-15) Humble pranam A sadhak

---------

I like to say what our veda already said which is still clear in the words of Lord Krishna.

The Atharvaveda mantra reads' bhadram karnebhih srunuyamadevah, bhadram pasyema akshabhiryajatrah sthirairangaih tustuvamsah vyasemadevahitam yadayuh..svast no brhaspatir dadhatu. Here it is the prayer that the ears be engaged in hearing the prayer sounds/praise words directed to god;

may the eyes be engaged in viewing the right things.let all the limbs of the body be willing firmly to please the higher and work for the good as long as one breaths.

When this ordeal available with our own self and body it is best and automatically the health and sap reigns in life. this is thus a clue from veda that bhakti and directed desire form the formula for the effective way to offer prayer. It starts from the regulating the body and mind

.. Another upanishad says ya atmani nirate ya upanishadsu dharmas te mayi santu' meaning serects of adhyatmavidya enters into one'self and with which he is with bliss.

subham

prabhakar

---------

nsk717 <nsk717 In Bhagvat Gita it is clearly mentioned, how we can pray effectively to God. In the last chapter of the Gita, Bhagwan krishna says that if all else fails in all the above mentioned Bhakti types. Then just become Mine (God's, Bhagwan's), (man mana mad madbhakto madyaji mam namaskuru). Become my devotee (Bhakta), be devoted to Me, worship Me, prostrate before Me,

and then God (bhagwan) assures that one who does this will attain God (Bhagwan) without any doubts. Simply by prostrating (Namaskar) in front of Bhagwan one can attain the highest goal i.e. God(Bhagwan). It is the ultimate thing and easy to do for any body. It is told by Lord Krishna in Gita 18:65. Hearing this all the doubts of Arjuna are wiped out and he regains strength.Other ways of praying are by offering water , flowers or leaves or pouring milk and many other things mentioned for effective prayers. But the main point is become a devotee (bhakta) of God and prostrate before Him then you inevitably attain the Bhagwan (god). This is told by the God himself. Just follow it. , raja gurdasani <muhurmuhu wrote:>> Priy Aatman,> There are as many ways to pray god as people are &

will be on the earth. Even more than that. Whatever suits U. Some people pray God as Nirakaar (Abstract) form. Other pray as Rama, Krishna, Surya, Shakti, Shiv, Ganesh, etc...> It depends on your antah karan what type of prayer will apeal u. In Chapter 7, 9, 10 God has indicated to be prsent in various forms. In nut shell whatever thing, person, situation, event, place, Time that is beautiful, blissful, cheering u see, That is only & only God.> thanx,> Raja.> > Kshayavridhivinirmuktha <kalaalapa wrote:> > I would like to know the most effective method for revering deities in temples to invoke spirituality in our mind.> Does Gita address anything about how to pray / offer reverence etc.? -------- Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The

following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone> number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the

large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

January 28, 2008

Pujya Madanji, Thanks for the excerpt from Gandhiji's book. It make the point very clear. Pranamas, Ravi Salem ----- wrote: ----- From: Madan kaura <madan_kauraSent by: Date: 01/25/2008 04:20PMRe: Re: What is the most effective way to offer prayers?Shree Hari Ram Ram Priya Sadhak, mahatava-purna prasan ke liye dhanyavad! In my humble opinion prayer is something very personal and confidential, preferably should be performed in a private setting and it may or may not work in a Temple setting. Recently, came across Gandhiji's book "My Religion", on the subject of prayer, some excerpts from that follow: God has thousand names, or rather, He is Nameless. We may worship or pray to Him by whichever name that pleases us. Some call Him Rama, some Krishna, others call Him Rahim and yet others call Him God. All worship the same spirit, but as all foods do not agree with all, all worship the same spirit, but as all foods do not agree with all, all names do not appeal to all. Each chooses the name according to his association and He being the In-Dweller, all Powerful and Omniscient knows our innermost feelings and responds according to our deserts. Sincerely praying to God is nothing but a sacred alliance between God and man whereby the aspirant attains his deliverance from the clutches of ignorance and darkness. But a heartfelt prayer is not a recitation with the lips, instead it is the yearning from within which expresses itself in every word, every act, nay, every thought of man. When an evil thought successfully assails him, he may know that he has offered but a lip prayer and similarly with regard to an evil word escaping his lips or an evil act done by him. Real prayer is an absolute shield and protection against this trinity of evils. Success does not always come at the very first effort, we have to cultivate illimitable patience if we want to realize the efficacy of prayer. There will be darkness, disappointment and even worse; but we must have courage enough to battle against all these and not succumb to cowardice. There is no such thing as retreat from prayer. The man of prayer is at peace with himself and with the whole world; the man who goes about the affairs of the world without a prayerful heart will be miserable and will make the world also miserable. Therefore, begin your day with prayer and make it so soulful that it may remain with you until the evening. Close the day with prayer so that you may have a peaceful night from dreams and the nightmares. Do not worry about the form of prayer, let it be in any form, it should be such as can put us into communion with the Divine. Only, whatever be the form, let not the spirit wander while the words of prayer run out of your mouth. It is better in prayer to have a heart without words than words without a heart. There are many verses in Gitaji on the subject, reference to some:Prayer to Sagun Brahm: (6-47, 7-1, 7-29/30, 8-7, 8-14, 9-14, 9-22, 9-30, 10-1, 11-55, 12-2) Prayer to Nirgun Brahm: (4-34, 4-39, 5-8, 5-13, 5-24/26, 6-25, 8-11, 8-13, 9-15) Humble pranamA sadhak--------- I like to say what our veda already said which is still clear in the words of Lord Krishna. The Atharvaveda mantra reads' bhadram karnebhih srunuyamadevah, bhadram pasyema akshabhiryajatrah sthirairangaih tustuvamsah vyasemadevahitam yadayuh..svast no brhaspatir dadhatu. Here it is the prayer that the ears be engaged in hearing the prayer sounds/praise words directed to god; may the eyes be engaged in viewing the right things.let all the limbs of the body be willing firmly to please the higher and work for the good as long as one breaths. When this ordeal available with our own self and body it is best and automatically the health and sap reigns in life. this is thus a clue from veda that bhakti and directed desire form the formula for the effective way to offer prayer. It starts from the regulating the body and mind . Another upanishad says ya atmani nirate ya upanishadsu dharmas te mayi santu' meaning serects of adhyatmavidya enters into one'self and with which he is with bliss. subham prabhakar --------- nsk717 <nsk717 > In Bhagvat Gita it is clearly mentioned, how we can pray effectively to God. In the last chapter of the Gita, Bhagwan krishna says that if all else fails in all the above mentioned Bhakti types. Then just become Mine (God's, Bhagwan's), (man mana mad madbhakto madyaji mam namaskuru). Become my devotee (Bhakta), be devoted to Me, worship Me, prostrate before Me, and then God (bhagwan) assures that one who does this will attain God (Bhagwan) without any doubts. Simply by prostrating (Namaskar) in front of Bhagwan one can attain the highest goal i.e. God(Bhagwan). It is the ultimate thing and easy to do for any body. It is told by Lord Krishna in Gita 18:65. Hearing this all the doubts of Arjuna are wiped out and he regains strength.Other ways of praying are by offering water , flowers or leaves or pouring milk and many other things mentioned for effective prayers. But the main point is become a devotee (bhakta) of God and prostrate before Him then you inevitably attain the Bhagwan (god). This is told by the God himself. Just follow it. , raja gurdasani <muhurmuhu wrote:>> Priy Aatman,> There are as many ways to pray god as people are & will be on the earth. Even more than that. Whatever suits U. Some people pray God as Nirakaar (Abstract) form. Other pray as Rama, Krishna, Surya, Shakti, Shiv, Ganesh, etc...> It depends on your antah karan what type of prayer will apeal u. In Chapter 7, 9, 10 God has indicated to be prsent in various forms. In nut shell whatever thing, person, situation, event, place, Time that is beautiful, blissful, cheering u see, That is only & only God.> thanx,> Raja.> > Kshayavridhivinirmuktha <kalaalapa wrote:> > I would like to know the most effective method for revering deities in temples to invoke spirituality in our mind.> Does Gita address anything about how to pray / offer reverence etc.? -------- Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone> number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

February 2, 2008

My suggestion:

Do good deeds, be happy, sleep well and God will take care of the rest.

What is good or bad?? You decide.

If you sleep well, you are going good deeds.

Gope Gidwani

---------

There have been people who prayed for years and have acheived nothing. In Srimat Bagavath there was a Rishi who did prayers for 400 years and got no where. But when he shed 2 drops of tears, Bagavan Vishnu appeared.

First one has to understand that "Aham Bramasmi" means, that he himself is embodiment of GOD and can get linked to Para Brahman any time. Droupadi in Mahabharat cried out to Sri Krishna for help, but nothing happened until she finally lifted both her hands and completed surrendered, depending only on God, she said the verse, "Chanka Ckara Gadha Paani----" and God rescued her. My humble opinion is one should become silent within and then see everything as GOD, speak only truth, think only good, do only Dharmic acts. Scriptures say, "Hidhan Sariram Parobakaram". Mean, Helping the needy without any expectation is equal to 100 yagnas. God said in Geetha, "Anniyachitayayome____" means Give mind to God in happiness and sorrow. That is all prayers

B.Sathyanarayan

---------

February 7, 2008

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

Madanji has very beautifully explained giving ref. from the Gitaji. I myself am a believer of prayers so don't get me wrong here but today let's look at 'prayer' from a different perspective...

Assuming that we all agree that God is omnipresent (sarvavyaapi), omnipotent (sarvashaktimaan), and omniscient (sarvajya), and we are all part of God. If so, then...

what is a need for prayer? Doesn't He/She/It (I will use He for God to communicate...) being a knower of all, knows of our needs? If He knows then aren't we already on his agenda? Do we have a need to ask or say what He should do? He says drop your body, mind, intelluct & come to me...

some say we chant - out loud by performing rituals or inside... If He is all pervading, whose attention are we trying to attract by such chanting? Is God deaf? Isn't He also present in our inner most being then whom are we trying to make our prayers listen to?

some times we offer this and that in our prayers, e.g., if i get so and so job, I will offer Rs. 101 worth of prasaad. He is sarvashktimaan, do we think by bribing Him we can have our work done faster? Don't we know that He also works according to His own rules - 'karma siddhaant'.

some say we should pray for the betterment of others - whose creation is it? Are we superior to the creator to tell Him your creation is wrong, change it?

when we ask for something, aren't we in a way indicating that God what You do is not right but what we suggest You to do is the right thing for us and thus project our distrust in Him and His doings?

In our body, as light as an ant crawls and we know about it, wouldn't He know of pain and sufferings of ours as we are part of His body? If so shouldn't He be responsible to cure it? Ultimately it is His body and His pain and His cure... So many times I have seen that the person on a death bed seems to have more life, i.e., looks very young for death, has many doctors around him available, has more than enough money to spend, has best people to support him, has all the medicines at his disposal, has saints and sages prayers - blessings and yet, and yet he doesn't survive, why?

If God is every where, isn't He within us too? What's the need to go to temple to pray? There is a beautiful very gorgeous temple, a cave, within us between two eyebrows called - Soul Center / Aajnaa Chakra, go there instead of wasting time visiting this or that temple outside. Sit quietly there and pray if you like.

Vasudevm survam..., mamaivansho jiv loke... then aren't we part of God as much as those other deities are then why pray any other deity? Go to your own supreme self is much more valuable then those deities - even they starve to have human birth then how can they be superior to human?

Most of the time in our prayers we seek worldly pleasures or ask for freedom from this world because we don't want to face the consequences of our own deeds - this or past life and yet we don't want to stop doing what we have been doing - the height of our stupidity, we keep on repeating the same mistakes, God keeps on forgiving us and we keep on breaking our promises to transform our life and thus end the cycle and still we are shameless to blame God for our misery saying why me? Can we not wake-up and try to understand what is it that God wants us to learn when He puts us in a certain situation? I have told this before too that the situation keeps on repeating in one or the other form until we learn the lessons of our life that are meant to learn. Who is praying for whom anyway? And who is learning? It is all one and the same!

Enquiring all these points, isn't the best prayer not to say anything at all? Complete quietness of body, mind, intellect, remaining calmly active and compassionately detached from all worldly affairs and witnessing it all what He does, accepting as is, shows complete surrender and that's what God says - sarvadharmaan parityajya maamekam sharanam... None but this surrender is a true prayer!

Please share your thoughts...

humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

----------

In reply to Gope Gidwani ....

What you are saying is right, but good sleep comes ony when you have satisfactory day full of good karma and to have good karma you need guidance from Gita !

Regards

Sujoy Dutta

----------

this is the quest which is pursued since the times immemorial. No one knows for certain.Acarya sankara is one who wanted to know the most effective way to offer prayers. He said pranantum stotum va kathamakrutapunyah prabhavat. His prayers are effective when one is a krutapunya.

The prayer should be atmarpana dhiya. There should not be any ego. Surrender that he is only an instrument needing solace and guidance from God. Sankara says that he should have the sense of identifying himself with goal of worship and that is to say "sivoham cidanandarupa sivah aham"

Sankara ultimately says 'i pray and the subsequent follow up should be taken up by paramatma himself.'

pray sincerely and that is the best way and effective way

prabhakar

----------

On 1/25/08, Madan kaura <madan_kaura wrote:

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Priya Sadhak, mahatava-purna prasan ke liye dhanyavad!

In my humble opinion prayer is something very personal and confidential, preferably should be performed in a private setting and it may or may not work in a Temple setting. Recently, came across Gandhiji's book " My Religion " , on the subject of prayer, some excerpts from that follow:

God has thousand names, or rather, He is Nameless. We may worship or pray to Him by whichever name that pleases us. Some call Him Rama, some Krishna, others call Him Rahim and yet others call Him God. All worship the same spirit, but as all foods do not agree with all, all worship the same spirit, but as all foods do not agree with all, all names do not appeal to all. Each chooses the name according to his association and He being the In-Dweller, all Powerful and Omniscient knows our innermost feelings and responds according to our deserts.

Sincerely praying to God is nothing but a sacred alliance between God and man whereby the aspirant attains his deliverance from the clutches of ignorance and darkness. But a heartfelt prayer is not a recitation with the lips, instead it is the yearning from within which expresses itself in every word, every act, nay, every thought of man. When an evil thought successfully assails him, he may know that he has offered but a lip prayer and similarly with regard to an evil word escaping his lips or an evil act done by him. Real prayer is an absolute shield and protection against this trinity of evils. Success does not always come at the very first effort, we have to cultivate illimitable patience if we want to realize the efficacy of prayer. There will be darkness, disappointment and even worse; but we must have courage enough to battle against all these and not succumb to cowardice. There is no such thing as retreat from prayer.

The man of prayer is at peace with himself and with the whole world; the man who goes about the affairs of the world without a prayerful heart will be miserable and will make the world also miserable.

Therefore, begin your day with prayer and make it so soulful that it may remain with you until the evening. Close the day with prayer so that you may have a peaceful night from dreams and the nightmares. Do not worry about the form of prayer, let it be in any form, it should be such as can put us into communion with the Divine. Only, whatever be the form, let not the spirit wander while the words of prayer run out of your mouth.

It is better in prayer to have a heart without words than words without a heart.

There are many verses in Gitaji on the subject, reference to some:

Prayer to Sagun Brahm: (6-47, 7-1, 7-29/30, 8-7, 8-14, 9-14, 9-22, 9-30, 10-1, 11-55, 12-2)

Prayer to Nirgun Brahm: (4-34, 4-39, 5-8, 5-13, 5-24/26, 6-25, 8-11, 8-13, 9-15)

Humble pranam

A sadhak

--------- I like to say what our veda already said which is still clear in the words of Lord Krishna. The Atharvaveda mantra reads' bhadram karnebhih srunuyamadevah, bhadram pasyema akshabhiryajatrah sthirairangaih tustuvamsah vyasemadevahitam yadayuh..svast no brhaspatir dadhatu. Here it is the prayer that the ears be engaged in hearing the prayer sounds/praise words directed to god; may the eyes be engaged in viewing the right things.let all the limbs of the body be willing firmly to please the higher and work for the good as long as one breaths. When this ordeal available with our own self and body it is best and automatically the health and sap reigns in life. this is thus a clue from veda that bhakti and directed desire form the formula for the effective way to offer prayer. It starts from the regulating the body and mind . Another upanishad says ya atmani nirate ya upanishadsu dharmas te mayi santu' meaning serects of adhyatmavidya enters into one'self and with which he is with bliss. subham

prabhakar

---------

nsk717 <nsk717

In Bhagvat Gita it is clearly mentioned, how we can pray effectively to God. In the last chapter of the Gita, Bhagwan krishna says that if all else fails in all the above mentioned Bhakti types. Then just

become Mine (God's, Bhagwan's), (man mana mad madbhakto madyaji mam namaskuru). Become my devotee (Bhakta), be devoted to Me, worship Me, prostrate before Me, and then God (bhagwan) assures that one who does this will attain God (Bhagwan) without any doubts.

Simply by prostrating (Namaskar) in front of Bhagwan one can attain the highest goal i.e. God(Bhagwan). It is the ultimate thing and easy to do for any body. It is told by Lord Krishna in Gita 18:65. Hearing this

all the doubts of Arjuna are wiped out and he regains strength.Other ways of praying are by offering water , flowers or leaves or pouring milk and many other things mentioned for effective prayers. But the main point is become a devotee (bhakta) of God and prostrate before Him then you inevitably attain the Bhagwan (god). This is told by the God himself.

Just follow it. , raja gurdasani <muhurmuhu

wrote:>> Priy Aatman,> There are as many ways to pray god as people are & will be on the earth. Even more than that. Whatever suits U. Some people pray God as Nirakaar (Abstract) form. Other pray as Rama, Krishna, Surya,

Shakti, Shiv, Ganesh, etc...> It depends on your antah karan what type of prayer will apeal u. In Chapter 7, 9, 10 God has indicated to be prsent in various forms. In nut shell whatever thing, person, situation, event, place, Time

that is beautiful, blissful, cheering u see, That is only & only God.> thanx,> Raja.> > Kshayavridhivinirmuktha <kalaalapa wrote:> > I would like to know the most effective method for revering

deities in temples to invoke spirituality in our mind.> Does Gita address anything about how to pray / offer reverence etc.? -------- Gita Talk Guidelines

FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore,

responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone> number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram

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February 8, 2008

Shree Hari Ram Ram Manjulaji has explained so scholarly - is there a real need for the prayer? My apologies for disagreement on certain points, few humble comments follow. I am

limiting our discussion to those seekers only who do not pray for any worldly things. As Manjulaji pointed out, when we are able to be in perfect silence (inner and outer), at the time we are closest to our inner nature, which is the same as being with God, at that point of course, prayer is not needed. But there may be only few such elevated souls who can be in perfect silence at all times. For the common folks, it is very different situation, we all know the nature of the mind which definitely has to go somewhere, if we do not remember God, our mind will certainly go to the worldly things which will take us away from our goal of God realization, so the prayer is certainly needed. Generally, we pray to God considering Him to be outside somewhere in space, different place than where we are, in that setting our attempts at prayer are a lot of hard work with very limited success.

But when we are able to develop intimate relationship with God and consider Him only as our own and us to be only His, His remembrance will be automatic, and we will not be able to live without Him, then there is no need for prayer. For the sincere and serious seekers who are trying earnestly but are not able to succeed in their efforts, they are left with no recourse except to turn to God for help. They pray to Him to grant them His unconditional love. The only condition for that is that we should solely depend on God and not on our abilities or some other source. As Swamiji Maharaj says, you cannot reach God with action (kriya), kriya is secondary. The feeling (bhava) is the only important aspect of the prayer since God is Bhava-grahi only. For a true prayer we should not have make an effort, it is oozing out as a spring from our inner self. When we pray with our heart, we become humble. Humility is

considered a crown jewel of all human virtues. Someone said humility is like a sweet fragrance which spreads for and wide without making an effort. Loving pranam A sadhak

-----------

Divine One,

Pranams again...,

And to your comment, I would humbly say that what I was trying to convey has been missed but let me try again...

When Yogeshwar asked Arjuna to fight, He had already known what Arjuna's needs are (better than Arjuna himself) and before even war began He had already killed his opponents and made him victorious but Arjuna being ignorant couldn't see that that he is an instrument only - nimitta maatra. Finally, Lord has to convince him by showing that his needs are already being taken care of, don't worry (nischint hokar) fight. Arjuna didn't have to pray; he was already on God's agenda; The Grace was already there without Arjuna's asking for it because Arjuna was already in the process of surrendering to his Beloved Friend, his Guru, his Guide, his God.

So...., the true and only prayer is 'surrender', be a witness, accept things as is, go within, be completely quiet, no words are needed to utter to any deity actually...! God knows it all and does it all, His grace is always there whether you want it or not, He will always take care of you whether you ask for it or not, recognize His play, you will enjoy it.

Hope this additional clarification helps. Please re-evaluate what I had said in my previous email, think it over, enquire, these points sure will shade some light!

One more clarification...

We keep on fighting until a moment before our surrender, when surrendered, no fight, no challenges remain, no need to know any effective way to face the challenge! When surrendered, nothing remains for us to do - all struggle ends, there is no mind, what to purify? There is no action that we can call it mine, where is efficiency? All learning ends. There is no dialog between Arjuna and Krishna - complete quietness! Lord has to keep on explaining Arjuna because he was not getting His point and when he got it - nashto moha..., Gitaji - the dialogue, everything ends, complete calmness pervades inside and outside...

Some one said that 'prayer' is the most misunderstood word and Gitaji is not about prayer. I would humbly disagree and like to say that Gitaji is nothing but all about prayer, the true prayer, how to reach a state of being prayerful all the time - no one but only Gitaji can teach this.

I hope I am making some sense...

humble regards,

always at Thy Holy Feet

-----------

Vijay Ashar wrote: Manjulaji, Namaste and Suprabhatam. Are the views and ideas expressed in your posting your own, or are these the words of Madanji? Pardon my ignorance, but who is Madanji? In any case, let me give below my views:

* I believe the real need for praying earnestly is not to inform Him of our needs and desires, but to purify our ownh mind by effacing the ego and feelings of meum (mamatva). Yogeshwar SrikrishNa Himself has exhorted Arjuna (and thru him, all His Bhaktas) in the following words:

Mayi sarvaaNi karmaaNi sanyasyaadhyaatmachetasaa

Niraasheer-nirmamo bhootvaa yudhyasva vigatajvaraH....... B.G. III-30

[Dedicating all your actions to Me with your mind fixed on Me, the Inner Self of all, freed from extraneous hope and the sense of mine and meum, and cured of mental anguish, (O Arjuna), fight.]

The active verb in this shloka is 'yudhyasva'-- fight the battles and challenges of life (while upholding Dharma). In the rest of the shloka, he indicates the effective method of fighting. Thus, the only meaningful and effective prayer is to ask for His Grace, so that we can strive to purify our mind which can become proficient in this effective method to fight whatever challenges are thrown at us as determined by our Praarabdha.

Do you agree with this interpretation?

Jai Yogeshwar,

vijay

-----------

For an evolved soul like you who is following what you wrote in your last paragraph, the only prayer left to request God to keep you in that state all the time. Do not worry about what others do for their prayers as they are not as evolved as you are. It all depends on what mental state one is and there is no one solution to reach the state mentioned in your last paragraph. Saying just in words is not sufficient and we need to practice to live with it which is the tough part. B Vempaty

-----------

Manjula Patel <manjumaa wrote: Loving Divine, Pranam. Madanji has very beautifully explained giving ref. from the Gitaji. I myself am a believer of prayers so don't get me wrong here but today let's look at 'prayer' from a different perspective... Assuming that we all agree that God is omnipresent (sarvavyaapi), omnipotent (sarvashaktimaan), and omniscient (sarvajya), and we are all part of God. If so, then... what is a need for prayer? Doesn't He/She/It (I will use He for God to communicate...) being a knower of all, knows of our needs? If He knows then aren't we already on his agenda? Do we have a need to ask or say what He should do? He says drop your body, mind,

intelluct & come to me... some say we chant - out loud by performing rituals or inside... If He is all pervading, whose attention are we trying to attract by such chanting? Is God deaf? Isn't He also present in our inner most being then whom are we trying to make our prayers listen to? some times we offer this and that in our prayers, e.g., if i get so and so job, I will offer Rs. 101 worth of prasaad. He is sarvashktimaan, do we think by bribing Him we can have our work done faster? Don't we know that He also works according to His own rules - 'karma siddhaant'. some say we should pray for the betterment of others - whose creation is it? Are we superior to the creator to tell Him your creation is wrong, change it? when we ask for something, aren't we in a way indicating that God what You do is not right but what we suggest You to do is the right thing for us and thus project our distrust in Him and

His doings? In our body, as light as an ant crawls and we know about it, wouldn't He know of pain and sufferings of ours as we are part of His body? If so shouldn't He be responsible to cure it? Ultimately it is His body and His pain and His cure... So many times I have seen that the person on a death bed seems to have more life, i.e., looks very young for death, has many doctors around him available, has more than enough money to spend, has best people to support him, has all the medicines at his disposal, has saints and sages prayers - blessings and yet, and yet he doesn't survive, why? If God is every where, isn't He within us too? What's the need to go to temple to pray? There is a beautiful very gorgeous temple, a cave, within us between two eyebrows called - Soul Center / Aajnaa Chakra, go there instead of wasting time visiting this or that temple outside. Sit quietly there and pray if

you like. Vasudevm survam..., mamaivansho jiv loke... then aren't we part of God as much as those other deities are then why pray any other deity? Go to your own supreme self is much more valuable then those deities - even they starve to have human birth then how can they be superior to human? Most of the time in our prayers we seek worldly pleasures or ask for freedom from this world because we don't want to face the consequences of our own deeds - this or past life and yet we don't want to stop doing what we have been doing - the height of our stupidity, we keep on repeating the same mistakes, God keeps on forgiving us and we keep on breaking our promises to transform our life and thus end the cycle and still we are shameless to blame God for our misery saying why me? Can we not wake-up and try to understand what is it that God wants us to learn when He puts us in a certain situation? I have told this

before too that the situation keeps on repeating in one or the other form until we learn the lessons of our life that are meant to learn. Who is praying for whom anyway? And who is learning? It is all one and the same! Enquiring all these points, isn't the best prayer not to say anything at all? Complete quietness of body, mind, intellect, remaining calmly active and compassionately detached from all worldly affairs and witnessing it all what He does, accepting as is, shows complete surrender and that's what God says - sarvadharmaan parityajya maamekam sharanam... None but this surrender is a true prayer! Please share your thoughts... humble regards, always at Thy Divine Feet -------reply to Gope Gidwani .... What you are saying is

right, but good sleep comes ony when you have satisfactory day full of good karma and to have good karma you need guidance from Gita ! Regards Sujoy Dutta ---------- this is the quest which is pursued since the times immemorial. No one knows for certain.Acarya sankara is one who wanted to know the most effective way to offer prayers. He said pranantum stotum va kathamakrutapunyah prabhavat. His prayers are effective when one is a krutapunya. The prayer should be atmarpana dhiya. There should not be any ego. Surrender that he is only an instrument needing solace and guidance from God. Sankara says that he should have the sense of identifying himself with goal of worship and that is to say "sivoham cidanandarupa sivah aham" Sankara ultimately says 'i pray and the subsequent follow up should be taken up by paramatma himself.' pray

sincerely and that is the best way and effective way prabhakar ---------- On 1/25/08, Madan kaura <madan_kaura > wrote: Shree Hari Ram Ram Priya Sadhak, mahatava-purna prasan ke liye dhanyavad! In my humble opinion prayer is something very personal and confidential, preferably should be performed in a private setting and it may or may not work in a Temple setting. Recently, came across Gandhiji's book "My Religion", on the subject of prayer, some excerpts from that follow: God has thousand names, or rather, He is Nameless. We may worship or pray to Him by whichever name that pleases us. Some call Him Rama, some

Krishna, others call Him Rahim and yet others call Him God. All worship the same spirit, but as all foods do not agree with all, all worship the same spirit, but as all foods do not agree with all, all names do not appeal to all. Each chooses the name according to his association and He being the In-Dweller, all Powerful and Omniscient knows our innermost feelings and responds according to our deserts. Sincerely praying to God is nothing but a sacred alliance between God and man whereby the aspirant attains his deliverance from the clutches of ignorance and darkness. But a heartfelt prayer is not a recitation with the lips, instead it is the

yearning from within which expresses itself in every word, every act, nay, every thought of man. When an evil thought successfully assails him, he may know that he has offered but a lip prayer and similarly with regard to an evil word escaping his lips or an evil act done by him. Real prayer is an absolute shield and protection against this trinity of evils. Success does not always come at the very first effort, we have to cultivate illimitable patience if we want to realize the efficacy of prayer. There will be darkness, disappointment and even worse; but we must have courage enough to battle against all these and not succumb to cowardice. There is no such thing as retreat from prayer. The man of prayer is at peace with himself and with the whole world; the man who goes about the affairs of the world

without a prayerful heart will be miserable and will make the world also miserable. Therefore, begin your day with prayer and make it so soulful that it may remain with you until the evening. Close the day with prayer so that you may have a peaceful night from dreams and the nightmares. Do not worry about the form of prayer, let it be in any form, it should be such as can put us into communion with the Divine. Only, whatever be the form, let not the spirit wander while the words of prayer run out of your mouth. It is better in prayer to have a heart without words than words without a heart. There are many verses in Gitaji on the subject, reference to some: Prayer to Sagun Brahm: (6-47, 7-1, 7-29/30, 8-7, 8-14, 9-14, 9-22, 9-30, 10-1, 11-55, 12-2) Prayer to Nirgun Brahm: (4-34, 4-39, 5-8, 5-13, 5-24/26, 6-25, 8-11, 8-13, 9-15) Humble pranam A sadhak --------- I like to say what our veda already said which is still clear in the words of Lord Krishna. The Atharvaveda mantra reads' bhadram karnebhih srunuyamadevah, bhadram pasyema akshabhiryajatrah sthirairangaih tustuvamsah vyasemadevahitam yadayuh..svast no brhaspatir dadhatu. Here it is the prayer that the ears be engaged in hearing the prayer sounds/praise words directed to god; may the eyes be engaged in viewing the right things.let all the limbs of the body be willing firmly to please the higher and work for the good as long as one breaths. When this ordeal available with our own self and body it is best and automatically the health and sap reigns in life. this is thus a clue from veda that bhakti and directed desire form the formula for the effective way to offer prayer. It starts from the regulating the body and mind . Another

upanishad says ya atmani nirate ya upanishadsu dharmas te mayi santu' meaning serects of adhyatmavidya enters into one'self and with which he is with bliss. subham prabhakar --------- nsk717 <nsk717 > In Bhagvat Gita it is clearly mentioned, how we can pray effectively to God. In the last chapter of the Gita, Bhagwan krishna says that if all else fails in all the above mentioned Bhakti types. Then just become Mine (God's, Bhagwan's), (man mana mad madbhakto madyaji mam namaskuru). Become my devotee (Bhakta), be devoted to Me, worship Me, prostrate before Me, and then God (bhagwan) assures that one who does this will attain God (Bhagwan) without any doubts.

Simply by prostrating (Namaskar) in front of Bhagwan one can attain the highest goal i.e. God(Bhagwan). It is the ultimate thing and easy to do for any body. It is told by Lord Krishna in Gita 18:65. Hearing this all the doubts of Arjuna are wiped out and he regains strength.Other ways of praying are by offering water , flowers or leaves or pouring milk and many other things mentioned for effective prayers. But the main point is become a devotee (bhakta) of God and prostrate before Him then you inevitably attain the Bhagwan (god). This is told by the God himself. Just follow it. , raja gurdasani <muhurmuhu wrote:>> Priy Aatman,> There are as many ways to pray god as people are & will be on the earth. Even more than that. Whatever suits U. Some people pray God

as Nirakaar (Abstract) form. Other pray as Rama, Krishna, Surya, Shakti, Shiv, Ganesh, etc...> It depends on your antah karan what type of prayer will apeal u. In Chapter 7, 9, 10 God has indicated to be prsent in various forms. In nut shell whatever thing, person, situation, event, place, Time that is beautiful, blissful, cheering u see, That is only & only God.> thanx,> Raja.> > Kshayavridhivinirmuktha <kalaalapa wrote:> > I would like to know the most effective method for revering deities in temples to invoke spirituality in our mind.> Does Gita address anything about how to pray / offer reverence etc.? -------- Gita Talk Guidelines FROM THE MODERATOR The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1.

Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone> number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may

modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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February 9, 2008

As someone whose knowledge is very limited and does not know Sanskrit, and shlokas, and in fact even my Hindi is also very basic, such as is it is spoken in the cities of north India. Because of this it is impossible for me to quote from Vedantic texts or utter shlokas to highlight my point. But if I can contribute in some way to someone who is like me, not well versed in the Vedas or Hindu epics. And like me who will probably never be able to go to the source of learning like people who have a much deeper and higher understanding of the path to God.

From those who have gone before us we know that there are many many pathways to God. If my memory serves me well Swami Vivekananda once in response to the criticism that there are literally thousands of God whom the Hindus believe in, said that he (Swami Vivekananda) wished there were millions of Gods, one God for each person in the world.

Having said that I would like to say that in the very very rare and fleeting moments that I have been able to pull myself out of the temptations, ambitions and worries of this world all of us live in, my understanding of prayer is that it is a conversation with God. To begin such a conversation there is one important requirement, that the person who wishes to converse with God choose the name and form of ONE God. I believe it was Sri Ramakrishna who once said that a man embraces his wife in one way, but he embraces his children and others in a different way. Similarly, we can embrace any and all Gods we would like to. But there can only be ONE God that you can have a conversation with. From my little knowledge of Vedanta this ONE God is the "ishta devta" for the person who wishes to have that conversation (or prayer). If you wish for more details you can do a Google search for the term "Ishta Devta" and find out more details about it.

Once a person has chosen an Ishta Devta, it can be any avatar, any other named God. The name of the Ishta Devta becomes a mantra for the person. Of course IDEALLY such a mantra needs to come from a Sadguru, a living person who is a Jivanmukta. But I don't think it is absolutely essential (remember Eklavya), but it most certainly helps a lot. The conversation with the Ishta Devta MUST be carried out with sincere feelings and needs a foundation of good character. The character part is the most difficult in my opinion, because of our desires, the monkey mind and our involvement with the material world. This is the reason I spoke of my very very rare and fleeting moments which have given me this simple and basic understanding of prayer. Another thing that I believe in is that taking the name of the Ishta Devta when done in its ideal form and by a person of excellent character (basically this means speak the truth, do not do harm to anyone by your actions and words, and do not become an obstacle in anyone's way). I am sure there is more to good character than the few words I have written here but you get my point..

According to the Vedanta there are three types of devotees who turn to God. The first is one who seeks an end to their distress and suffering, the second is one who seeks material wealth and success of this world, the third is one who seeks God. So the nature of mankind is well known to God :-))

When God is all-knowing, all powerful and the creator of this and all other universes, then why pray - He must know already!!! The fact is that when the baby cries, the mother feeds the baby. It is not as if she does not know that the baby has needs!! Similarly, unless the person makes the effort of having a conversation with God (praying to God), one cannot expect God to do anything.

There is a story that once Bhagwan Vishnu was seated in the heavens and one of his devotees was calling out for help. Bhagwan Vishnu got up to respond to the devotee's prayer but then went back and sat down. Someone (I think it was Narada muni) asked Bhagwan Vishnu why he was not helping his devotee in distress. Bhagwan Vishnu replied, the devotee called out my name and when I got up to respond to him, the devotee was calling out to Bhagwan Shiva, then to other named Gods. I cannot help the devotee who keeps calling out to different Gods, the devotee needs to be single minded. The point of the story is of course, that if you choose your Ishta Devta, stay with that Ishta Devta for your entire life and into death. Then the conversation with God can truly be maintained.

Of course there are many spiritual issues also involved. The saying that what God does (even when we think it is bad for us) God does for our best - this saying is true. But so far I have not succeeded in accepting this. But I am trying, if I am lucky after a few more rebirths I might partially succeed. But I take comfort from what Sri Aurobindo once said (this is NOT an exact quote), "You say you have experienced failure in achieving what you desired. Through what you see as failures, actually God is coming closer to you". It is very difficult of course for someone ordinary like me to actually believe this. But it does give me comfort when I don't get what I want. At such times thinking like a Karma Yogi is very helpful, which is do my best and leave the result up to God. If I get what I want I accept it, if I don't get what I want, then too accept it. In this I think it is the attitude of the mind that is important. I mean if I don't get what I want and am unhappy with the situation, there is nothing REALLY that I can do about it. And I have to accept it whether I ike it or not. But if I am able to accept it gracefully and truly adhere to my conversation with God sincerely, inspite of the failure that is what is needed.

All I really wanted to say is that for ordinary people like me, conversing with God (prayer) is very helpful. It does not need a mandir, or any formal place. But if you need the mandir or other special place then close your eyes and withdraw your senses and be in conversation with God. It takes a lot of effort and practice. In fact I think I fail in this conversation almost all of the time. But by God's grace I have still not given up on it completely.

Learning, knowledge of scripture, if it is there it is excellent. But sadly it often becomes an obstacle rather than of help, because of our ahamkara (ego). You may keep the conversation as simple as possible or wherever you find peace of mind. But if we only have a conversation with God when we want to ask for something that is not helpful.

One of my favourite stories was told by Sri Ramakrishna. In a small village there was a learned holy man who sat under a tree and was always doing tapasya. Opposite the tree was a house of ill-repute where a "vaishya" (prostitute) lived and conducted her business. The villagers would gather every evening and the learned holy man would bless the villagers and answer their questions to enlighten the villagers about God. The learned holy man was known in all the nearby villages for how learned and religious he was, as well as for being a great "tapasvi" (someone who has successfully done many difficult austerities). The villagers of course considered themselves and their village blessed and very lucky to have the opportunity to have such a holy man in their village who was famed far and wide. People came from all corners to listen to the holy man's words of wisdom and his knowledge of the scriptures.

Many years went by and the villagers grew to revere and even worship the learned holy man. One day the learned holy man died. And at about the same time the "vaishya" (prostitute) also died. But the soul of the learned saint went to "narak" (a type of hell) and the "vaishya's" soul went to "swarag" (heaven). Up in the heavens Narada muni was very puzzled and even angry with God. Narada muni expressed his shock to God and said, "God you are very unfair. That learned saint spent all his life worshipping you, mastering the holy scriptures, and doing penance to achieve your blessings and you sent his soul to "narak" and that immoral "vaishya" you sent to "swarag" (heaven). I fail to understand your justice O Lord!! You punish those who are close to You, but bless those who lead an immoral and evil life and send their soul to "swarag"

God replied to Narada muni and told him to look down at what was happening in the village. Narada muni saw that there was a big procession of villagers carrying the body of the holy man in great reverence and hwith honour. His body was treated like a God by the villagers. The saint's body was accompanied by many drum beats, pipes, songs in his praise. Villagers from far and wide came all dressed in their best clothing, and they were all singing the praises in honour of the holy man. Narada then saw that the body of the "vaishya" was lying unmourned and covered with a cloth. There wasn't even a dog anywhere close to her body because even the dogs of the village were following the procession. And no one had cared to even wrap her body in a cloth let alone cremate it because all the villagers were honouring the holy man and his teachings.

God explained to Narada muni. Yes you are right, the holy man was holy all his life, and did many austerities while worshipping me. But the holy man's thoughts were all filled with curses and condemnation for the "vaishya's" immoral lifestyle as she sold her body to evil men, while living opposite the holy man. And often in his religious discourses the holy man would mention the immoral "vaishya" who lived and sold her body just across from his holy tree under which he lived, no matter whether the weather was good or bad. Because of all these reasons, God said, the holy man's body is being celebrated and honoured on earth. God then said, but look at the "vaishya" there is not even a dog lying close to her body. But all the time that the "vaishya" was selling her body, her mind and heart were fixed on me. She prayed day and night for all the years of her immoral life begging for my forgivenss for her wretched lifestyle. Because of this, God said, I have made a difference between the body and the soul. The soul of the "vaishya" is now in "swarag" but her body is condemned on earth. But the holy man's body is being celebrated on earth and they are singing holy songs praising the holy man's body. But because his mind was fixed on how wretched the life of the "vaishya" was who lived just opposite to him, his heart was filled with condemnation for how unholy and wicked the life of the "vaishya" was. The holy man's mind and heart were focused on the "vaishya" therefore his soul has gone to "narak".

In my opinion there is no parable so deep in its message. In closing I want to say that I know what I have written above is very very basic. But as I said at the beginning, my approach is very simple.

Wishing everyone well,

Biraj Khosla

jai sri krishna ,

i believe if one does ones job every

moment with honesty and sincerity, this is the best

prayer to god. rastogi

For Manjulaji -

Woh, Woh, Woh,

This is the best interpratation of prayer I have heard,

God Bless you, Please continue doing this type of work,

This is the only god's work.

once again god bless you.