Guest guest Posted April 17, 2008 Report Share Posted April 17, 2008 A very important distinction and prescription has been offered in this commentary. Many of us are mostly intellectually oriented aspirants who continuously judge at our level of ignorance all teachers, teachings and guidance based on our limited (not so enlightened) knowledge. As a result we are quick to dismiss or look down on those who have totally surrendered to and accepted their spiritual " Guru " as the only unquestionable source of guidance. The latter are akin to the true devotees who see no distinction between God and the guru and begins to treat their guru as such, without question or qualms. We who still are in the questioning stage are akin to the aspirants in the Discipline of Knowledge who are enveloped with continued doubts, mistrust and a self ego that we have better capability to judge the ones who surpassed our level and are highly enlightened. We seem to be unconsciously stuck in a rut of our own making because of our own self-ego. The easier way out seems to be total devotion, following the Discipline of Devotion (Bhakti) by surrendering to and letting Krishna become the guide " Saarathi " . Comments are welcome from other Sadhaks. In HIS Service with Love, Bitthal Gujrati Sadhak <sadhak_insight wrote: Spiritual Group <sadhaka > Sadhak <sadhak_insight Thu, 6 Mar 2008 06:06:44 -0800 (PST) [sadhaka] About the Need for a Teacher (Mar 6, 2008) :Shree Hari: 6 March, 2008, Thursday Falgun Krishna Trayodashi, Vikram Samvat 2064, Guruvar In Gita 13:7, Lord Krishna talks about the twenty virtues to become free of assumed identity and affinity with the body. Of them, one is " Aacaaryopaasanam " . A teacher who imparts knowledge and teaches good precepts can also be called an Acharya and serving such a teacher, one can be benefited. But here the term Acharya denotes a liberated Soul. Bowing to him, paying reverence to him and serving him with body, mind and speech, as prescribed by the scriptures, in order to make him happy - this is also devotion and service to him. But real service and devotion is making our lives according to his principles and inner expressions. The service rendered to the body conscious person can be rendered simply by doing things for the body, for a realized Soul, simply rendering service to the body, is not real and complete service. In the Gita, in discipline of devotion, there is not a mention of " Aacaaryopaasanam " , it has only been covered in the Discipline of Knowledge. In this it reveals a very important secret. There is not as much need of a preceptor, in the Discipline of Devotion as there is in the Discipline of Knowledge. Because a devotee, following the path of devotion, entirely depends on God. So the Lord Himself, by His grace, provides gain and security to him (Gita 9:22), and removes all difficulties and obstacles (Gita 18:58) and enables him to behold the Divine presence, within himself (Gita 10:11) and attain essential knowledge. But in the Discipline of Knowledge, a spiritual aspirant relies on his own strength and abilities in perfroming his spiritual practices, therefore some very subtles flaws remain in him. Such as occasionally affected by pleasure and pain, when spontaneously addressed by his name, unconsciously he still thinks that he is a person and remains established in the body, he forgets his true self in sleep, also he thinks he is superior when he keeps good company and does good work. In this manner, a spiritual aspirant regards his imperfect knowledge as perfect. Thus the Lord by the term " Acharyopaasanam " wants to emphasize the fact that a spiritual aspirant following the path of knowledge, should practice spiritual discipline under the guidance of a teacher. From " The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani " in Hindi page 847 and in English pg 1447 by Swami Ramsukhdasji Ram Ram For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami Ramsukhdasji's website. http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2008 Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say we are/should be after TRUTH of ourselves, the world and God? Does it matter how we arrive there? Why should we establish one path being superior over others. Should one approach apply equally well to all of us? To me there are two main paths/approaches: path in which self-inquiry (GyanYog) is predominent while being engaged in actions; path in which Self-less Karma(KarmaYog) is predominent. Both of these are to be pursued with total Devotion without which they may not bear intended fruits. None can escape karmas, but being free of sense of doership-kartabhav can happen in Bhakta, Gyani, and Karma Yogi equally. Abscence of doership is " The Realization that I as body-mind based individual, called ego, am not the doer but an instrument of Supreme Consciousness-God " . It is important to note that God in this context is all of us together, points to ONE Totality, ONE Intelligence that works through people, animals, so called insentient nature, and all that is unmanifest. Thus being an instrument is not a fatalistic view of the life, alleged as " do-nothing attitude " by many who think themselves as achievers. In reality, whether we consider such a realized person a Bhakta (Meera, Tulsi, Nanak) or gyani(Shankara, Kabir, Ramana, Krishnamurti) or KarmYogi(Arjuna, Gandhi, Mother Teressa), it doesn't matter to her/him a bit because there is a total absence of " person " there. In otherwords, there is no " gyani " , there is only manifest Consciousness experienced as Gyan-Devotion-Truth-Sat-Chit-Ananda. Similarly there is no " Bhakta " , there is only an experience of Bhakti- Being, also Sat-Chit-Ananda!. Gyani and Bhakta are practical conventions for communication, not reality of our experience. If a trace of self consciousness(ego) remains then Bhakta or Gyani or Karma Yogi all have their sadhana incomplete. SO the paths are not as important as the goal they promise, so to speak! Let us uphold all approaches to Truth. For all such ardent Sadhakas willing to give up anything of the world, Teacher appears in different forms of Teaching! Our responsibility is to be sincere Disciple, the only thing we can be! With namaskar .....Pratap (Pratap Bhatt) -- There was no Guru sitting between Krishna and Arjuna when Divine dialogue of Geeta started. Dilip Mehta --- Dear Sadaks, First let us know from saints who were teachers. A Guru is told in many places from Geetha- Sadana Panchakam- Yoga Vasista- Manasa Panchakam and by saints such as Alwars, Nayanmars, Tukaram. Almost all scripts and saints have said similar. What? A Sat Guru talks only about athma Gyana, never keeps more than 2 pairs of clothes, lives only on Bhikshaa (or Unjavirthi, collecting food for the day ONLY in 5 houses), does not possess wealth as ashram, does not form trust, does see everyone alike, is never ever angry, leads spiritual aspirants in Gyana/Bakthi Marg (towards realizing God / Self, not following him). These are the qualities of SAT GURU. Now the question comes from where one can get Sat Guru. Bagavan Vishnu and Shiva says that Guru will be sent to you when you are ripe in mind with detachments. Bagavan Shiva came as Guru for Namdev. Tukaram, Ekanath etc, Alwars, Nayanmars went to persons and gave updesh. Narada went to Durva, prahalada, and downtroden. Budha, Adi Sankara had disciples but were close to one or two. Scearching for Guru may end up wasted time or getting caught with Maya Sanyasi. One can see nowadays so many saffrin clothed peoples. Many wear gold watches, has septacle box gold plated, saffrin cloth of glitter and shine, demands car when invited, delivers wonderful lectures etc, but much attached to many people by cell phone. Some sanyasins have many phones. Sat Guru has deep preference for solitude. They know who is ripe baktha (may be from Schedule caste) and guide that person. One can see this from almost all saints. Attaining God is little easier than finding a Sat Guru. In divine sloka- Vasudevam Sutam devam------ ends with Sri Krishnam Vande JADGATH GURUM. The pala of this sloka at end says- Koti Jalma vinasyathi (thousands of birth karmas goes away by memorising) If one say he is spiritual, the other asks " have you seen God " and " then show me " . GOD is attainable ONLY by Gyana says upanashids, Gurus, scripts. God is Apprameyam Means God is NOT object to be shown. Slowly practice to become free of desires, deeply avoid anger, do not be miserly, do not have disparity, carefully watch where all EGO arises, meditate on GOD, do Nava rasa Bakthi, never scold anyone, have no jealousy, love all in this creation and you are sure to get SAT GURU. NO amount of poojas, meditations, temple visits will serve the purpose if you possess Dur Guna. I am not saying this. Bagavan Sri Krishna, Shiva, saints, recently by Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Rishi, Tapovan Maharaj, Pagal Baba, Sathya Sai etc. One can know clearly from Geetha , " Chetram and Chetrangniyan " meaning. Sanakadhi munes are manasha Brama puthras. These saints had abilty to travel to any world Vykunt, Kailaya etc. But they said,' We have learnt all vedas, upanashids, and scripts, but unable to put those values in practice. Bhramaji created a very beatiful woman to deceive a demon. After creation HE was not looking at the lady. The lady asked, " Why oh lord you are not looking at me " . Bhrama replied, " your beauty should not polute my mind " . Bagavan Shiva did penance on this earth. Manmada was sent to disturb Shiva who burnt Manmada. Bagavan Visnu did tapas in Badrinath. Indra sent his dancer to distrube HIS tapas. Bagavan Vishnu from his lap gave one more lady(I think Menaka) as gift to Indra and put him in shame. Naradha said to Bagavan Sri Krishna, " oh bagavan, your visnu maya will not disturb me " . The result Naradha was in family life, he gave birth to children, lost husband and finally when He(She) lost ego Bagavan rescued naradha. A beatiful prostitute came to Tukaram who said on looking at her, " Oh Matha Rukumayi, why you came alone without Sri Panduranga " . The prostitute turned a saint. Similar incidents took place to many Mahans. Many know Baktha Gora who chopped his hands for Panduranga because his wives touched him. That is why Bagavan came to Gora`s house and worked as servant. Same as in case of Sant Sakubai, Vilvamagal swamy, Sri Andal, Kurur Amma, Narayana Batadri etc. One needs sincere love of GOD, to shed tears on listening divine stories, stick to dharmic way of life and remain silent- GURU does come to you. B.Sathyanarayan --- Thank u all for telling me what is wrong and what is good for me. Really, I'm really thankful to you all n Swamiji on this help. I wanted to know one thing, that is this necessary for me to make some one my guru for my spiritual upliftment ? I mean as it is regularly said that (Bin guru gyan kahan se paun). But how can i find a true guru in this world where it is not easy to find someone with gyan ? And i want to know . What is meditation which is used by all of you many times which have to be done in the evening and morning. How is it done? Can it be done at workplace or at home or purely it is done in a temple or park? Please teach me anyone if you can. I'm new to all this untill now i only visited satsangs and dont know anything about it. Jai Ram Ji Ki. OM SHREE GANESHAYE NAMAH. OM SHREE GANESHAYE NAMAH. OM NAMO BHAGWATE VASUDEVAY.OM NAMAH SHIVAYE HARI OM TATSAT.MAHAMANTRA HAI YE.HARIOM TATSAT praveen taneja --- , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > A very important distinction and prescription has been offered in > this commentary. > > Many of us are mostly intellectually oriented aspirants who > continuously judge at our level of ignorance all teachers, teachings > and guidance based on our limited (not so enlightened) knowledge. As > a result we are quick to dismiss or look down on those who have > totally surrendered to and accepted their spiritual " Guru " as the > only unquestionable source of guidance. The latter are akin to the > true devotees who see no distinction between God and the guru and > begins to treat their guru as such, without question or qualms. We > who still are in the questioning stage are akin to the aspirants in > the Discipline of Knowledge who are enveloped with continued doubts, > mistrust and a self ego that we have better capability to judge the > ones who surpassed our level and are highly enlightened. We seem to > be unconsciously stuck in a rut of our own making because of our own > self-ego. The easier way out seems to be total devotion, following > the Discipline of Devotion (Bhakti) by surrendering to and letting > Krishna become the guide " Saarathi " . > > Comments are welcome from other Sadhaks. > > In HIS Service with Love, > Bitthal Gujrati > > Sadhak <sadhak_insight wrote: > Spiritual Group <sadhaka > > Sadhak <sadhak_insight > Thu, 6 Mar 2008 06:06:44 -0800 (PST) > [sadhaka] About the Need for a Teacher (Mar 6, 2008) > > :Shree Hari: > > 6 March, 2008, Thursday > Falgun Krishna Trayodashi, Vikram Samvat 2064, Guruvar > > In Gita 13:7, Lord Krishna talks about the twenty virtues to become > free of assumed identity and affinity with the body. Of them, one > is " Aacaaryopaasanam " . A teacher who imparts knowledge and teaches > good precepts can also be called an Acharya and serving such a > teacher, one can be benefited. But here the term Acharya denotes a > liberated Soul. Bowing to him, paying reverence to him and serving > him with body, mind and speech, as prescribed by the scriptures, in > order to make him happy - this is also devotion and service to him. > But real service and devotion is making our lives according to his > principles and inner expressions. The service rendered to the body > conscious person can be rendered simply by doing things for the > body, for a realized Soul, simply rendering service to the body, is > not real and complete service. > > In the Gita, in discipline of devotion, there is not a mention > of " Aacaaryopaasanam " , it has only been covered in the Discipline of > Knowledge. In this it reveals a very important secret. There is not > as much need of a preceptor, in the Discipline of Devotion as there > is in the Discipline of Knowledge. Because a devotee, following the > path of devotion, entirely depends on God. So the Lord Himself, by > His grace, provides gain and security to him (Gita 9:22), and > removes all difficulties and obstacles (Gita 18:58) and enables him > to behold the Divine presence, within himself (Gita 10:11) and > attain essential knowledge. But in the Discipline of Knowledge, a > spiritual aspirant relies on his own strength and abilities in > perfroming his spiritual practices, therefore some very subtles > flaws remain in him. Such as occasionally affected by pleasure and > pain, when spontaneously addressed by his name, unconsciously he > still thinks that he is a person and remains established > in the body, he forgets his true self in sleep, also he thinks he is > superior when he keeps good company and does good work. > > In this manner, a spiritual aspirant regards his imperfect knowledge > as perfect. Thus the Lord by the term " Acharyopaasanam " wants to > emphasize the fact that a spiritual aspirant following the path of > knowledge, should practice spiritual discipline under the guidance > of a teacher. > > From " The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani " in Hindi page 847 and in > English pg 1447 by Swami Ramsukhdasji > > Ram Ram > > For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami > Ramsukhdasji's website. > > http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2008 Report Share Posted April 20, 2008 dear sadhaks.. when one is ready,the Guru appears in LIFE.. He will find You.. only you have to recognize HIm All Gurus are One Guru.. The JagadGuru.. (God Himself) Your Isht Deva; Your Guru.. Give respect and your Bhaava at the Lotus Feet of The Lord.. The intesity of Love...will purify your Heart.. The person who is Established in the Dharma...gets liberated... thanks.. kuldip suri eternal child. -------------------------------- If you can read this, thank a teacher! There are countless teachers who help and guide us on different spheres of life. But we have to be careful about teachers as well. Many have distorted the messages of the Bhagavad Gita. That is why we have dvaitam, advaita and in-between things. None of these words are in the Bhagavad Gita! let us be careful about clinging /defending a narrow vision and the teacher business. While each one of them is right, at the best, they are incomplete! Tatachar - , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! > Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say we are/should be after TRUTH of > ourselves, the world and God? Does it matter how we arrive there? Why > should we establish one path being superior over others. Should one > approach apply equally well to all of us? > To me there are two main paths/approaches: path in which self- inquiry > (GyanYog) is predominent while being engaged in actions; path in > which Self-less Karma(KarmaYog) is predominent. Both of these are to > be pursued with total Devotion without which they may not bear > intended fruits. None can escape karmas, but being free of sense of > doership-kartabhav can happen in Bhakta, Gyani, and Karma Yogi > equally. > Abscence of doership is " The Realization that I as body-mind based > individual, called ego, am not the doer but an instrument of Supreme > Consciousness-God " . It is important to note that God in this context > is all of us together, points to ONE Totality, ONE Intelligence that > works through people, animals, so called insentient nature, and all > that is unmanifest. > Thus being an instrument is not a fatalistic view of the life, > alleged as " do-nothing attitude " by many who think themselves as > achievers. > In reality, whether we consider such a realized person a Bhakta > (Meera, Tulsi, Nanak) or gyani(Shankara, Kabir, Ramana, Krishnamurti) > or KarmYogi(Arjuna, Gandhi, Mother Teressa), it doesn't matter to > her/him a bit because there is a total absence of " person " there. In > otherwords, there is no " gyani " , there is only manifest Consciousness > experienced as Gyan-Devotion-Truth-Sat-Chit-Ananda. > Similarly there is no " Bhakta " , there is only an experience of Bhakti- > Being, also Sat-Chit-Ananda!. Gyani and Bhakta are practical > conventions for communication, not reality of our experience. > > If a trace of self consciousness(ego) remains then Bhakta or Gyani or > Karma Yogi all have their sadhana incomplete. SO the paths are not as > important as the goal they promise, so to speak! > > Let us uphold all approaches to Truth. > For all such ardent Sadhakas willing to give up anything of the > world, Teacher appears in different forms of Teaching! Our > responsibility is to be sincere Disciple, the only thing we can be! > With namaskar .....Pratap > (Pratap Bhatt) > - - > There was no Guru sitting between Krishna and Arjuna when Divine > dialogue of Geeta started. > > Dilip Mehta > - -- > Dear Sadaks, > First let us know from saints who were teachers. > A Guru is told in many places from Geetha- Sadana Panchakam- Yoga > Vasista- Manasa Panchakam and by saints such as Alwars, Nayanmars, > Tukaram. > > Almost all scripts and saints have said similar. What? A Sat Guru > talks only about athma Gyana, never keeps more than 2 pairs of > clothes, lives only on Bhikshaa (or Unjavirthi, collecting food for > the day ONLY in 5 houses), does not possess wealth as ashram, does > not form trust, does see everyone alike, is never ever angry, leads > spiritual aspirants in Gyana/Bakthi Marg (towards realizing God / > Self, not following him). These are the qualities of SAT GURU. > > Now the question comes from where one can get Sat Guru. Bagavan > Vishnu and Shiva says that Guru will be sent to you when you are ripe > in mind with detachments. Bagavan Shiva came as Guru for Namdev. > Tukaram, Ekanath etc, Alwars, Nayanmars went to persons and gave > updesh. Narada went to Durva, prahalada, and downtroden. Budha, Adi > Sankara had disciples but were close to one or two. > > Scearching for Guru may end up wasted time or getting caught with > Maya Sanyasi. One can see nowadays so many saffrin clothed peoples. > Many wear gold watches, has septacle box gold plated, saffrin cloth > of glitter and shine, demands car when invited, delivers wonderful > lectures etc, but much attached to many people by cell phone. Some > sanyasins have many phones. Sat Guru has deep preference for > solitude. They know who is ripe baktha (may be from Schedule caste) > and guide that person. One can see this from almost all saints. > Attaining God is little easier than finding a Sat Guru. > > In divine sloka- Vasudevam Sutam devam------ ends with Sri Krishnam > Vande JADGATH GURUM. The pala of this sloka at end says- Koti Jalma > vinasyathi (thousands of birth karmas goes away by memorising) > If one say he is spiritual, the other asks " have you seen God " > and " then show me " . GOD is attainable ONLY by Gyana says upanashids, > Gurus, scripts. God is Apprameyam Means God is NOT object to be shown. > Slowly practice to become free of desires, deeply avoid anger, do not > be miserly, do not have disparity, carefully watch where all EGO > arises, meditate on GOD, do Nava rasa Bakthi, never scold anyone, > have no jealousy, love all in this creation and you are sure to get > SAT GURU. > > NO amount of poojas, meditations, temple visits will serve the > purpose if you possess Dur Guna. I am not saying this. Bagavan Sri > Krishna, Shiva, saints, recently by Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, > Ramana Rishi, Tapovan Maharaj, Pagal Baba, Sathya Sai etc. One can > know clearly from Geetha , " Chetram and Chetrangniyan " meaning. > Sanakadhi munes are manasha Brama puthras. These saints had abilty to > travel to any world Vykunt, Kailaya etc. But they said,' We have > learnt all vedas, upanashids, and scripts, but unable to put those > values in practice. > > Bhramaji created a very beatiful woman to deceive a demon. After > creation HE was not looking at the lady. The lady asked, " Why oh lord > you are not looking at me " . Bhrama replied, " your beauty should not > polute my mind " . > Bagavan Shiva did penance on this earth. Manmada was sent to disturb > Shiva who burnt Manmada. Bagavan Visnu did tapas in Badrinath. Indra > sent his dancer to distrube HIS tapas. Bagavan Vishnu from his lap > gave one more lady(I think Menaka) as gift to Indra and put him in > shame. Naradha said to Bagavan Sri Krishna, " oh bagavan, your visnu > maya will not disturb me " . The result Naradha was in family life, he > gave birth to children, lost husband and finally when He(She) lost > ego Bagavan rescued naradha. > > A beatiful prostitute came to Tukaram who said on looking at > her, " Oh Matha Rukumayi, why you came alone without Sri Panduranga " . > The prostitute turned a saint. Similar incidents took place to many > Mahans. > Many know Baktha Gora who chopped his hands for Panduranga because > his wives touched him. That is why Bagavan came to Gora`s house and > worked as servant. Same as in case of Sant Sakubai, Vilvamagal swamy, > Sri Andal, Kurur Amma, Narayana Batadri etc. > One needs sincere love of GOD, to shed tears on listening divine > stories, stick to dharmic way of life and remain silent- GURU does > come to you. > B.Sathyanarayan > > - -- > Thank u all for telling me what is wrong and what is good for me. > Really, I'm really thankful to you all n Swamiji on this help. I > wanted to know one thing, that is this necessary for me to make some > one my guru for my spiritual upliftment ? > > I mean as it is regularly said that (Bin guru gyan kahan se paun). > But how can i find a true guru in this world where it is not easy to > find someone with gyan ? > And i want to know . What is meditation which is used by all of you > many times which have to be done in the evening and morning. How is > it done? Can it be done at workplace or at home or purely it is done > in a temple or park? > > Please teach me anyone if you can. I'm new to all this untill now i > only visited satsangs and dont know anything about it. Jai Ram Ji Ki. > > OM SHREE GANESHAYE NAMAH. OM SHREE GANESHAYE NAMAH. > OM NAMO BHAGWATE VASUDEVAY.OM NAMAH SHIVAYE > HARI OM TATSAT.MAHAMANTRA HAI YE.HARIOM TATSAT > > praveen taneja > > - -- > , " sadhak_insight " > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > A very important distinction and prescription has been offered in > > this commentary. > > > > Many of us are mostly intellectually oriented aspirants who > > continuously judge at our level of ignorance all teachers, > teachings > > and guidance based on our limited (not so enlightened) knowledge. > As > > a result we are quick to dismiss or look down on those who have > > totally surrendered to and accepted their spiritual " Guru " as the > > only unquestionable source of guidance. The latter are akin to the > > true devotees who see no distinction between God and the guru and > > begins to treat their guru as such, without question or qualms. We > > who still are in the questioning stage are akin to the aspirants in > > the Discipline of Knowledge who are enveloped with continued > doubts, > > mistrust and a self ego that we have better capability to judge the > > ones who surpassed our level and are highly enlightened. We seem to > > be unconsciously stuck in a rut of our own making because of our > own > > self-ego. The easier way out seems to be total devotion, following > > the Discipline of Devotion (Bhakti) by surrendering to and letting > > Krishna become the guide " Saarathi " . > > > > Comments are welcome from other Sadhaks. > > > > In HIS Service with Love, > > Bitthal Gujrati > > > > Sadhak <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > Spiritual Group <sadhaka > > > Sadhak <sadhak_insight@> > > Thu, 6 Mar 2008 06:06:44 -0800 (PST) > > [sadhaka] About the Need for a Teacher (Mar 6, 2008) > > > > :Shree Hari: > > > > 6 March, 2008, Thursday > > Falgun Krishna Trayodashi, Vikram Samvat 2064, Guruvar > > > > In Gita 13:7, Lord Krishna talks about the twenty virtues to become > > free of assumed identity and affinity with the body. Of them, one > > is " Aacaaryopaasanam " . A teacher who imparts knowledge and teaches > > good precepts can also be called an Acharya and serving such a > > teacher, one can be benefited. But here the term Acharya denotes a > > liberated Soul. Bowing to him, paying reverence to him and serving > > him with body, mind and speech, as prescribed by the scriptures, in > > order to make him happy - this is also devotion and service to him. > > But real service and devotion is making our lives according to his > > principles and inner expressions. The service rendered to the body > > conscious person can be rendered simply by doing things for the > > body, for a realized Soul, simply rendering service to the body, is > > not real and complete service. > > > > In the Gita, in discipline of devotion, there is not a mention > > of " Aacaaryopaasanam " , it has only been covered in the Discipline > of > > Knowledge. In this it reveals a very important secret. There is not > > as much need of a preceptor, in the Discipline of Devotion as there > > is in the Discipline of Knowledge. Because a devotee, following the > > path of devotion, entirely depends on God. So the Lord Himself, by > > His grace, provides gain and security to him (Gita 9:22), and > > removes all difficulties and obstacles (Gita 18:58) and enables him > > to behold the Divine presence, within himself (Gita 10:11) and > > attain essential knowledge. But in the Discipline of Knowledge, a > > spiritual aspirant relies on his own strength and abilities in > > perfroming his spiritual practices, therefore some very subtles > > flaws remain in him. Such as occasionally affected by pleasure and > > pain, when spontaneously addressed by his name, unconsciously he > > still thinks that he is a person and remains established > > in the body, he forgets his true self in sleep, also he thinks he > is > > superior when he keeps good company and does good work. > > > > In this manner, a spiritual aspirant regards his imperfect > knowledge > > as perfect. Thus the Lord by the term " Acharyopaasanam " wants to > > emphasize the fact that a spiritual aspirant following the path of > > knowledge, should practice spiritual discipline under the guidance > > of a teacher. > > > > From " The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani " in Hindi page 847 and > in > > English pg 1447 by Swami Ramsukhdasji > > > > Ram Ram > > > > For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami > > Ramsukhdasji's website. > > > > http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2008 Report Share Posted April 21, 2008 Loving Divine, Pranam. I am going to present few thoughts again... Guru contains two aspects of The Brhahman: - 'Ga' is actually 'gativaachak', i.e., movement or action. 'Ra' is 'agni', i.e., fire, so it represents heat & illumination. 'U' represents Shiva himself. - gu = shakti or energy that is vibrant & ru = shiva himself - So gu = prakruti & ru = purush - Therefore, gu = ignorance & ru = knowledge - Thus, gu = maya or illusion & ru = Mayadhar, i.e., Vishnu - Maya means gu = darkness & Mayadhar means ru = light. - It can be said that gu = jivatmaa (embodied soul) & ru = parmaatmaa (cosmic soul) - I have also seen it interpreted as gu = swar or vowel (a, aa, i, ee, etc. OR a, e, i, o & u) & ru = vyanjan or consonants. In other words, 'k' means nothing until 'a' is added - If looked at it from different angle, from Shiva if 'i' shaktivaachak is taken out then the remainder is nothing but shav - a dedad body. - Guru = mahat, great, heavy, vast - Guru is God Himself so how can one ever say one doesn't have Guru? Guru is the one who dispels our deepest darkness of ignorance and shows us the light of our soul. To Arjun, Krishna - a human form, his brother-in-law, his friend, his charriot driver became his Guru so he sought a human being to be his Guru. If we go within, and say Arjun is embodied soul then Krishna - Yogeshwar, Bhagwan, Cosmic Soul became his Guru so Guru is present in every atom of this creation. One can never be deprived of Guru, one just needs to open their heart to feel Him. You decide yourself, what you are missing to find your Guru. humble regards, always at Thy Holy Feet (Manjula Patel) -- dear divine souls ! my humble parnaama... there two ways learning yoga disciplines. (1) tapsya... (self effort / austerities etc) (2) Surrender.. (refuge in God) tapsya (self effort and austerities ) is very difficult, because we had to practice the Yoga with our own efforts.. 2nd..Surrender.. means...giving the control of our Life to Divine Lord. Ishwar. Ramkrishna Paramhans..explains..this by example. baby monkey and a kitten. baby monkey clings to the mother. He has to make the effort to hold on to his mother. If he falls..it is his own fault. Here mother is not as much concerned. in the 2nd..example.. the kitten is entirely dependent on the mother.. and the mother takes complete responsibility of the kitten's care and transportation etc. by holding in her mouth. Without taking refuge progress in Yoga is more difficult. reagrds kuldip eternal child. --- Teachers are needed for Vishaya and well as Zyan. Guru Drona was a teacher to Arjun and so was Bhism as they both taught warcraft and administration. But Sri Krishna was that teacher not in profession of teaching, and had no fixed role and no fixed subject matter and not bound by time and place, is the guide or Guru always and closest and appropriate. In Mahabarata, Guru Drona and Bhism got killed by Pandavas because they were not in truth buy vishaya of warcraft and administration. Krishna was the Guru as He provided Arjun sight of Truth. Changing and diffierent situations are never possible to learn but only that is unchanging, and same for all is worthy of learning. Sri Krishna is therefore guru teaching the abstract and root knowledge and it grows in individuals automatic. Incidently, I am a teacher too for people in work and I sensed the end of Drona and Bhism and therefore decided not to teach but only answering questions. This technique in Bhagwat Gita is very practical where students ask questions as per their ability, and judged by questions, rather than answers. It is job of teacher to provide answer in the examination and student asking questions and keeps the mind on track, till the duration of examination. K G Misra --- Dear Sadaks, Ordinary persons can start Bakthi Love towards GOD. Then bakthi manifests in multifold making one see GOD in everything. Keeping mind level that doership is not you, has unknown hidden thought that you are forsaking doership. Let mind be stable, never contemplate too much, just observe and be wittness to happenings as you would watch a movie. Then atom of thought that you are leaving doership is not felt or even known. Karma can be reduced very high extent. Example: One Alwar (vaishvite Saint) used to talk to Bagavan Sri Ranganatha. Bagavan said one day, " oh saint you are going to suffer your karmas for 7 years, as Sani enters " . Saint said why such thing should happen to him as he is under Bagavan. Discussion went on and finally the saint accepted in reducing his Karmas from 7 years to 7 hours. History goes that a diamond necklace was missing next day from Deity and saint was jailed as he was near daity previous night. In the after noon when king came for lunch, the queen gave the neclace saying she found in the garland that the archaka gave to king previous night. The saint realized what would have been the havoc if he was to undergo 7 years karma. Similarly: This happened in Panderpur. A saint while going on Biksha saw a lady weeping and giving Biksha. On enquiry he can to know she is issueless for past 10 years. Lady requested the Saint to convey her problem to Bagavan Panderinath and reply. The reply came saying that she has poorva Karma as not bear child in this birth. 2 years later the same lady was carring a child on her hip. Saint equired whether the child was neighbour` s. Lady said it was her` s. Saint went straight to Bagavan Pandarinath and enquired what leela was it. Bagavan said that another Baktha Vathiyaraja swamy of HIS came to panderpur where the lady got blessing as , " Puthravati Bava " . So to up keep my Baktha words, Bagavan had to bless her with child. Further Bagavan said, " you could have also blessed her so. Why you came and asked whether she has a child to bear or not. I (Bagavan) could have kept up your words also. You asked question I (bagavan ) replied. Have more faith in ME " , thus said Bagavan. In Kuruchetra Yud, Bagavan played a trick to keep up Bheesma` s utterance that in today war he will see krishna will take weapon. Bagavan did take chakra for the sake of Baktha. Adi Sankara said even Prarabtha Karma can decipate if Bagavan wishes to save HIS baktha or even HIS baktha gives a boon to someone. Dear sadaks, we can know the key points from Baktha Vijayam of Kannada or Marathi or Baktha mala. The path easily paved by HIS bakthas in elevating us surely in this birth itself. The path is easy to follow, easy to practice and bring Bagavan in our mind and heart. In Poori Jaganath- Jaidev used to do Abishek to Bagavan Krishna in his house. His wife Padmavathy would say during abishek that the child krishna will feel hard to breath if milk poured contiuously. The BAVA BAKTHI is important. That is why Krishna appeared to Padmavathy before Jai Dev could have dharshan. Simple ardent love to GOD is enough. HE will come to you. You will feel it. No need to rack your brain with scripts/sanskrit. B.Sathyanarayan , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > dear sadhaks.. > > when one is ready,the Guru appears in LIFE.. > He will find You.. > only you have to recognize HIm > All Gurus are One Guru.. > The JagadGuru.. (God Himself) > Your Isht Deva; Your Guru.. > Give respect and your Bhaava at the Lotus Feet of The Lord.. > > The intesity of Love...will purify your Heart.. > The person who is Established in the Dharma...gets liberated... > > thanks.. > kuldip suri > eternal child. > > > -------------------------------- > If you can read this, thank a teacher! > > There are countless teachers who help and guide us on different > spheres of life. But we have to be careful about teachers as well. > Many have distorted the messages of the Bhagavad Gita. That is why > we have dvaitam, advaita and in-between things. None of these words > are in the Bhagavad Gita! let us be careful about > clinging /defending a narrow vision and the teacher business. > While each one of them is right, at the best, they are incomplete! > > Tatachar > > - > , " sadhak_insight " > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! > > Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say we are/should be after > TRUTH of > > ourselves, the world and God? Does it matter how we arrive there? > Why > > should we establish one path being superior over others. Should one > > approach apply equally well to all of us? > > To me there are two main paths/approaches: path in which self- > inquiry > > (GyanYog) is predominent while being engaged in actions; path in > > which Self-less Karma(KarmaYog) is predominent. Both of these are > to > > be pursued with total Devotion without which they may not bear > > intended fruits. None can escape karmas, but being free of sense of > > doership-kartabhav can happen in Bhakta, Gyani, and Karma Yogi > > equally. > > Abscence of doership is " The Realization that I as body-mind based > > individual, called ego, am not the doer but an instrument of > Supreme > > Consciousness-God " . It is important to note that God in this > context > > is all of us together, points to ONE Totality, ONE Intelligence > that > > works through people, animals, so called insentient nature, and all > > that is unmanifest. > > Thus being an instrument is not a fatalistic view of the life, > > alleged as " do-nothing attitude " by many who think themselves as > > achievers. > > In reality, whether we consider such a realized person a Bhakta > > (Meera, Tulsi, Nanak) or gyani(Shankara, Kabir, Ramana, > Krishnamurti) > > or KarmYogi(Arjuna, Gandhi, Mother Teressa), it doesn't matter to > > her/him a bit because there is a total absence of " person " there. > In > > otherwords, there is no " gyani " , there is only manifest > Consciousness > > experienced as Gyan-Devotion-Truth-Sat-Chit-Ananda. > > Similarly there is no " Bhakta " , there is only an experience of > Bhakti- > > Being, also Sat-Chit-Ananda!. Gyani and Bhakta are practical > > conventions for communication, not reality of our experience. > > > > If a trace of self consciousness(ego) remains then Bhakta or Gyani > or > > Karma Yogi all have their sadhana incomplete. SO the paths are not > as > > important as the goal they promise, so to speak! > > > > Let us uphold all approaches to Truth. > > For all such ardent Sadhakas willing to give up anything of the > > world, Teacher appears in different forms of Teaching! Our > > responsibility is to be sincere Disciple, the only thing we can be! > > With namaskar .....Pratap > > (Pratap Bhatt) > > -------------------------------- -- > - > > There was no Guru sitting between Krishna and Arjuna when Divine > > dialogue of Geeta started. > > > > Dilip Mehta > > -------------------------------- -- > -- > > Dear Sadaks, > > First let us know from saints who were teachers. > > A Guru is told in many places from Geetha- Sadana Panchakam- Yoga > > Vasista- Manasa Panchakam and by saints such as Alwars, Nayanmars, > > Tukaram. > > > > Almost all scripts and saints have said similar. What? A Sat Guru > > talks only about athma Gyana, never keeps more than 2 pairs of > > clothes, lives only on Bhikshaa (or Unjavirthi, collecting food for > > the day ONLY in 5 houses), does not possess wealth as ashram, does > > not form trust, does see everyone alike, is never ever angry, leads > > spiritual aspirants in Gyana/Bakthi Marg (towards realizing God / > > Self, not following him). These are the qualities of SAT GURU. > > > > Now the question comes from where one can get Sat Guru. Bagavan > > Vishnu and Shiva says that Guru will be sent to you when you are > ripe > > in mind with detachments. Bagavan Shiva came as Guru for Namdev. > > Tukaram, Ekanath etc, Alwars, Nayanmars went to persons and gave > > updesh. Narada went to Durva, prahalada, and downtroden. Budha, Adi > > Sankara had disciples but were close to one or two. > > > > Scearching for Guru may end up wasted time or getting caught with > > Maya Sanyasi. One can see nowadays so many saffrin clothed peoples. > > Many wear gold watches, has septacle box gold plated, saffrin > cloth > > of glitter and shine, demands car when invited, delivers wonderful > > lectures etc, but much attached to many people by cell phone. Some > > sanyasins have many phones. Sat Guru has deep preference for > > solitude. They know who is ripe baktha (may be from Schedule caste) > > and guide that person. One can see this from almost all saints. > > Attaining God is little easier than finding a Sat Guru. > > > > In divine sloka- Vasudevam Sutam devam------ ends with Sri Krishnam > > Vande JADGATH GURUM. The pala of this sloka at end says- Koti Jalma > > vinasyathi (thousands of birth karmas goes away by memorising) > > If one say he is spiritual, the other asks " have you seen God " > > and " then show me " . GOD is attainable ONLY by Gyana says > upanashids, > > Gurus, scripts. God is Apprameyam Means God is NOT object to be > shown. > > Slowly practice to become free of desires, deeply avoid anger, do > not > > be miserly, do not have disparity, carefully watch where all EGO > > arises, meditate on GOD, do Nava rasa Bakthi, never scold anyone, > > have no jealousy, love all in this creation and you are sure to get > > SAT GURU. > > > > NO amount of poojas, meditations, temple visits will serve the > > purpose if you possess Dur Guna. I am not saying this. Bagavan Sri > > Krishna, Shiva, saints, recently by Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, > > Ramana Rishi, Tapovan Maharaj, Pagal Baba, Sathya Sai etc. One can > > know clearly from Geetha , " Chetram and Chetrangniyan " meaning. > > Sanakadhi munes are manasha Brama puthras. These saints had abilty > to > > travel to any world Vykunt, Kailaya etc. But they said,' We have > > learnt all vedas, upanashids, and scripts, but unable to put those > > values in practice. > > > > Bhramaji created a very beatiful woman to deceive a demon. After > > creation HE was not looking at the lady. The lady asked, " Why oh > lord > > you are not looking at me " . Bhrama replied, " your beauty should not > > polute my mind " . > > Bagavan Shiva did penance on this earth. Manmada was sent to > disturb > > Shiva who burnt Manmada. Bagavan Visnu did tapas in Badrinath. > Indra > > sent his dancer to distrube HIS tapas. Bagavan Vishnu from his lap > > gave one more lady(I think Menaka) as gift to Indra and put him in > > shame. Naradha said to Bagavan Sri Krishna, " oh bagavan, your visnu > > maya will not disturb me " . The result Naradha was in family life, > he > > gave birth to children, lost husband and finally when He(She) lost > > ego Bagavan rescued naradha. > > > > A beatiful prostitute came to Tukaram who said on looking at > > her, " Oh Matha Rukumayi, why you came alone without Sri > Panduranga " . > > The prostitute turned a saint. Similar incidents took place to many > > Mahans. > > Many know Baktha Gora who chopped his hands for Panduranga because > > his wives touched him. That is why Bagavan came to Gora`s house and > > worked as servant. Same as in case of Sant Sakubai, Vilvamagal > swamy, > > Sri Andal, Kurur Amma, Narayana Batadri etc. > > One needs sincere love of GOD, to shed tears on listening divine > > stories, stick to dharmic way of life and remain silent- GURU does > > come to you. > > B.Sathyanarayan > > > > -------------------------------- -- > -- > > Thank u all for telling me what is wrong and what is good for me. > > Really, I'm really thankful to you all n Swamiji on this help. I > > wanted to know one thing, that is this necessary for me to make > some > > one my guru for my spiritual upliftment ? > > > > I mean as it is regularly said that (Bin guru gyan kahan se paun). > > But how can i find a true guru in this world where it is not easy > to > > find someone with gyan ? > > And i want to know . What is meditation which is used by all of you > > many times which have to be done in the evening and morning. How is > > it done? Can it be done at workplace or at home or purely it is > done > > in a temple or park? > > > > Please teach me anyone if you can. I'm new to all this untill now > i > > only visited satsangs and dont know anything about it. Jai Ram Ji > Ki. > > > > OM SHREE GANESHAYE NAMAH. OM SHREE GANESHAYE NAMAH. > > OM NAMO BHAGWATE VASUDEVAY.OM NAMAH SHIVAYE > > HARI OM TATSAT.MAHAMANTRA HAI YE.HARIOM TATSAT > > > > praveen taneja > > > > -------------------------------- -- > -- > > , " sadhak_insight " > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > A very important distinction and prescription has been offered in > > > this commentary. > > > > > > Many of us are mostly intellectually oriented aspirants who > > > continuously judge at our level of ignorance all teachers, > > teachings > > > and guidance based on our limited (not so enlightened) knowledge. > > As > > > a result we are quick to dismiss or look down on those who have > > > totally surrendered to and accepted their spiritual " Guru " as the > > > only unquestionable source of guidance. The latter are akin to > the > > > true devotees who see no distinction between God and the guru and > > > begins to treat their guru as such, without question or qualms. > We > > > who still are in the questioning stage are akin to the aspirants > in > > > the Discipline of Knowledge who are enveloped with continued > > doubts, > > > mistrust and a self ego that we have better capability to judge > the > > > ones who surpassed our level and are highly enlightened. We seem > to > > > be unconsciously stuck in a rut of our own making because of our > > own > > > self-ego. The easier way out seems to be total devotion, > following > > > the Discipline of Devotion (Bhakti) by surrendering to and > letting > > > Krishna become the guide " Saarathi " . > > > > > > Comments are welcome from other Sadhaks. > > > > > > In HIS Service with Love, > > > Bitthal Gujrati > > > > > > Sadhak <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > Spiritual Group <sadhaka > > > > Sadhak <sadhak_insight@> > > > Thu, 6 Mar 2008 06:06:44 -0800 (PST) > > > [sadhaka] About the Need for a Teacher (Mar 6, 2008) > > > > > > :Shree Hari: > > > > > > 6 March, 2008, Thursday > > > Falgun Krishna Trayodashi, Vikram Samvat 2064, Guruvar > > > > > > In Gita 13:7, Lord Krishna talks about the twenty virtues to > become > > > free of assumed identity and affinity with the body. Of them, one > > > is " Aacaaryopaasanam " . A teacher who imparts knowledge and > teaches > > > good precepts can also be called an Acharya and serving such a > > > teacher, one can be benefited. But here the term Acharya denotes > a > > > liberated Soul. Bowing to him, paying reverence to him and > serving > > > him with body, mind and speech, as prescribed by the scriptures, > in > > > order to make him happy - this is also devotion and service to > him. > > > But real service and devotion is making our lives according to > his > > > principles and inner expressions. The service rendered to the > body > > > conscious person can be rendered simply by doing things for the > > > body, for a realized Soul, simply rendering service to the body, > is > > > not real and complete service. > > > > > > In the Gita, in discipline of devotion, there is not a mention > > > of " Aacaaryopaasanam " , it has only been covered in the Discipline > > of > > > Knowledge. In this it reveals a very important secret. There is > not > > > as much need of a preceptor, in the Discipline of Devotion as > there > > > is in the Discipline of Knowledge. Because a devotee, following > the > > > path of devotion, entirely depends on God. So the Lord Himself, > by > > > His grace, provides gain and security to him (Gita 9:22), and > > > removes all difficulties and obstacles (Gita 18:58) and enables > him > > > to behold the Divine presence, within himself (Gita 10:11) and > > > attain essential knowledge. But in the Discipline of Knowledge, a > > > spiritual aspirant relies on his own strength and abilities in > > > perfroming his spiritual practices, therefore some very subtles > > > flaws remain in him. Such as occasionally affected by pleasure > and > > > pain, when spontaneously addressed by his name, unconsciously he > > > still thinks that he is a person and remains established > > > in the body, he forgets his true self in sleep, also he thinks he > > is > > > superior when he keeps good company and does good work. > > > > > > In this manner, a spiritual aspirant regards his imperfect > > knowledge > > > as perfect. Thus the Lord by the term " Acharyopaasanam " wants to > > > emphasize the fact that a spiritual aspirant following the path > of > > > knowledge, should practice spiritual discipline under the > guidance > > > of a teacher. > > > > > > From " The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani " in Hindi page 847 and > > in > > > English pg 1447 by Swami Ramsukhdasji > > > > > > Ram Ram > > > > > > For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami > > > Ramsukhdasji's website. > > > > > > http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2008 Report Share Posted April 22, 2008 Friends My views about Guru and Shisya relationship may not match with views expreseed in this group.We are living in a different time period and all informations/knowledge is available off the shelf. The Guru and Shisya relationship is old concept and no more relevant in the present age. Most of the time , Shisya knows more than the Guru. This relationship does not recognize the inter- dependence and puts too much obligation on the Guru. It is as if Guru will perform miracle only if the Shisya has faith or blind faith in Guru. This concept will not work now. This relationship does not recognize the fact that everyone is equal and has equal potential and sooner or later will reach the same goal. It places too much supremacy for Guru which is damaging to him in spiritual journey and too much inferiority for Shisya which is damaging for him as well. In the present cosmic situation, only two types of relationship is possible. One of Friendship , in which each one tries to help each other without any obligation or commitment on others part to reciprocate. By helping other, one progresses irrespective of others reaction, or reciprocation. This relationship recognizes inter-dependence between two or more persons but every one acting according to his own nature. The other type of relationship is of partnering .In this relationship , each one has certain duties ,responsibilities and commitments and the result is shared by the partners. Obviously the result produced by Partnering is many times more than in Friendship. The result is proportionate to each partner's effort. Incidentally, as per my understanding, with God also we are either friend or partner without our knowing. The Bhakti (surrender),The Gyan (knowledge) and the Karma(action) may not be really helpful without our working for change at the Heart level.Chanhe in heart ,the seat of emotions will create peace, happiness and joy in our and others life. The God is also called SAT CHITT ANAND and ATMA NARTAKAH . Without deep love for Group members ,I would not dare to share my thoughts.. So think it over. Regards A K Jain - 'gativachak' may refer to a Guru; but Guru is God Himself. We have to look to God for instruction. God doesn't desire more of our time sometimes; he desires more of our attention all the time. Ever feel frustrated because you hear messages about getting closer to God and you definitely desire this for yourself, but you are inundated with so much to do already that this only makes you feel guilty because you are too busy for God? I think we all feel this at one time or another. Some of you may need to carve some time out of your busy schedule for more specific time to be with God, but that isn't necessarily the only answer to this question. Look at the following Scriptures: " I have set the Lord always before me. " Psalm 16:8 " My eyes are ever on the Lord. " Psalm 25:15 " I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips. " Psalm 34:1 Reading these words makes you wonder if these are the words of a monk who had nothing else to do but devote himself to God. Actually, they are the words of David, king of Israel, a great ruler and warrior. How did he manage to run a nation and keep his eyes on the Lord at all times? The only conclusion is that he did this while he did everything else. It's a continual awareness of God that we are talking about here, not necessarily more time devoted to spiritual pursuits. I once saw a sign that read: " Your god is what you pay attention to. " You see, I believe you can pay attention to God while you are doing everything else. It's all about doing everything for God and seeing God in everything we do. It's about bringing God into the boardroom, the exercise room, the living room, and the bedroom. Now of course he's already in all these places but we're talking about being aware of his being there at all times. That's what it means to set the Lord always before us. Worship is a frame of mind that always has God in the picture. We don't need church, or Bible study, or devotions to remind us about the Lord if we're already aware of him all the time. These opportunities then become more precious to us because we can devote all our attention to that which we have been aware of all along - gativaachak- movement or action can take place only under the guidance of God who is also a Guru. Yeshu Rathenam -- , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > Loving Divine, > Pranam. > I am going to present few thoughts again... Guru contains two > aspects of The Brhahman: > - 'Ga' is actually 'gativaachak', i.e., movement or action. 'Ra' > is 'agni', i.e., fire, so it represents heat & illumination. 'U' > represents Shiva himself. > - gu = shakti or energy that is vibrant & ru = shiva himself > - So gu = prakruti & ru = purush > - Therefore, gu = ignorance & ru = knowledge > - Thus, gu = maya or illusion & ru = Mayadhar, i.e., Vishnu > - Maya means gu = darkness & Mayadhar means ru = light. > - It can be said that gu = jivatmaa (embodied soul) & ru = > parmaatmaa (cosmic soul) > - I have also seen it interpreted as gu = swar or vowel (a, aa, i, > ee, etc. OR a, e, i, o & u) & ru = vyanjan or consonants. In other > words, 'k' means nothing until 'a' is added > - If looked at it from different angle, from Shiva if 'i' > shaktivaachak is taken out then the remainder is nothing but shav - > a dedad body. > - Guru = mahat, great, heavy, vast > - Guru is God Himself so how can one ever say one doesn't have > Guru? Guru is the one who dispels our deepest darkness of ignorance > and shows us the light of our soul. To Arjun, Krishna - a human > form, his brother-in-law, his friend, his charriot driver became his > Guru so he sought a human being to be his Guru. If we go within, > and say Arjun is embodied soul then Krishna - Yogeshwar, Bhagwan, > Cosmic Soul became his Guru so Guru is present in every atom of this > creation. One can never be deprived of Guru, one just needs to open > their heart to feel Him. > > You decide yourself, what you are missing to find your Guru. > humble regards, > always at Thy Holy Feet > > (Manjula Patel) > - - > dear divine souls ! > > my humble parnaama... there two ways learning yoga disciplines. > (1) tapsya... (self effort / austerities etc) > (2) Surrender.. (refuge in God) > > tapsya (self effort and austerities ) is very difficult, because we > had to practice the Yoga with our own efforts.. > 2nd..Surrender.. means...giving the control of our Life to Divine > Lord. Ishwar. > > Ramkrishna Paramhans..explains..this by example. > > baby monkey and a kitten. > baby monkey clings to the mother. He has to make the effort to hold > on to his mother. If he falls..it is his own fault. Here mother is > not as much concerned. > in the 2nd..example.. the kitten is entirely dependent on the > mother.. and the mother takes complete responsibility of the > kitten's care and transportation etc. by holding in her mouth. > > Without taking refuge progress in Yoga is more difficult. > > reagrds > kuldip > eternal child. > > > - -- > Teachers are needed for Vishaya and well as Zyan. Guru Drona was a > teacher to Arjun and so was Bhism as they both taught warcraft and > administration. But Sri Krishna was that teacher not in profession > of teaching, and had no fixed role and no fixed subject matter and > not bound by time and place, is the guide or Guru always and closest > and appropriate. In Mahabarata, Guru Drona and Bhism got killed by > Pandavas because they were not in truth buy vishaya of warcraft and > administration. Krishna was the Guru as He provided Arjun sight of > Truth. > > Changing and diffierent situations are never possible to learn but > only that is unchanging, and same for all is worthy of learning. Sri > Krishna is therefore guru teaching the abstract and root knowledge > and it grows in individuals automatic. > > Incidently, I am a teacher too for people in work and I sensed the > end of Drona and Bhism and therefore decided not to teach but only > answering questions. This technique in Bhagwat Gita is very > practical where students ask questions as per their ability, and > judged by questions, rather than answers. It is job of teacher to > provide answer in the examination and student asking questions and > keeps the mind on track, till the duration of examination. > K G Misra > > - -- > Dear Sadaks, > Ordinary persons can start Bakthi Love towards GOD. Then bakthi > manifests in multifold making one see GOD in everything. Keeping > mind level that doership is not you, has unknown hidden thought that > you are forsaking doership. Let mind be stable, never contemplate > too much, just observe and be wittness to happenings as you would > watch a movie. Then atom of thought that you are leaving doership is > not felt or even known. > Karma can be reduced very high extent. Example: One Alwar (vaishvite > Saint) used to talk to Bagavan Sri Ranganatha. Bagavan said one > day, " oh saint you are going to suffer your karmas for 7 years, as > Sani enters " . Saint said why such thing should happen to him as he > is under Bagavan. Discussion went on and finally the saint accepted > in reducing his Karmas from 7 years to 7 hours. > History goes that a diamond necklace was missing next day from Deity > and saint was jailed as he was near daity previous night. In the > after noon when king came for lunch, the queen gave the neclace > saying she found in the garland that the archaka gave to king > previous night. The saint realized what would have been the havoc if > he was to undergo 7 years karma. > Similarly: This happened in Panderpur. A saint while going on Biksha > saw a lady weeping and giving Biksha. On enquiry he can to know she > is issueless for past 10 years. Lady requested the Saint to convey > her problem to Bagavan Panderinath and reply. The reply came saying > that she has poorva Karma as not bear child in this birth. 2 years > later the same lady was carring a child on her hip. Saint equired > whether the child was neighbour` s. Lady said it was her` s. Saint > went straight to Bagavan Pandarinath and enquired what leela was it. > Bagavan said that another Baktha Vathiyaraja swamy of HIS came to > panderpur where the lady got blessing as , " Puthravati Bava " . So to > up keep my Baktha words, Bagavan had to bless her with child. > Further Bagavan said, " you could have also blessed her so. Why you > came and asked whether she has a child to bear or not. I (Bagavan) > could have kept up your words also. You asked question I (bagavan ) > replied. Have more faith in ME " , thus said Bagavan. > In Kuruchetra Yud, Bagavan played a trick to keep up Bheesma` s > utterance that in today war he will see krishna will take weapon. > Bagavan did take chakra for the sake of Baktha. Adi Sankara said > even Prarabtha Karma can decipate if Bagavan wishes to save HIS > baktha or even HIS baktha gives a boon to someone. > Dear sadaks, we can know the key points from Baktha Vijayam of > Kannada or Marathi or Baktha mala. The path easily paved by HIS > bakthas in elevating us surely in this birth itself. The path is > easy to follow, easy to practice and bring Bagavan in our mind and > heart. > In Poori Jaganath- Jaidev used to do Abishek to Bagavan Krishna in > his house. His wife Padmavathy would say during abishek that the > child krishna will feel hard to breath if milk poured contiuously. > The BAVA BAKTHI is important. That is why Krishna appeared to > Padmavathy before Jai Dev could have dharshan. > > Simple ardent love to GOD is enough. HE will come to you. You will > feel it. No need to rack your brain with scripts/sanskrit. > B.Sathyanarayan > > > , " sadhak_insight " > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > dear sadhaks.. > > > > when one is ready,the Guru appears in LIFE.. > > He will find You.. > > only you have to recognize HIm > > All Gurus are One Guru.. > > The JagadGuru.. (God Himself) > > Your Isht Deva; Your Guru.. > > Give respect and your Bhaava at the Lotus Feet of The Lord.. > > > > The intesity of Love...will purify your Heart.. > > The person who is Established in the Dharma...gets liberated... > > > > thanks.. > > kuldip suri > > eternal child. > > > > > > -------------------------------- > > If you can read this, thank a teacher! > > > > There are countless teachers who help and guide us on different > > spheres of life. But we have to be careful about teachers as well. > > Many have distorted the messages of the Bhagavad Gita. That is why > > we have dvaitam, advaita and in-between things. None of these > words > > are in the Bhagavad Gita! let us be careful about > > clinging /defending a narrow vision and the teacher business. > > While each one of them is right, at the best, they are incomplete! > > > > Tatachar > > > > -------------------------------- -- > > , " sadhak_insight " > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! > > > Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say we are/should be after > > TRUTH of > > > ourselves, the world and God? Does it matter how we arrive > there? > > Why > > > should we establish one path being superior over others. Should > one > > > approach apply equally well to all of us? > > > To me there are two main paths/approaches: path in which self- > > inquiry > > > (GyanYog) is predominent while being engaged in actions; path in > > > which Self-less Karma(KarmaYog) is predominent. Both of these > are > > to > > > be pursued with total Devotion without which they may not bear > > > intended fruits. None can escape karmas, but being free of sense > of > > > doership-kartabhav can happen in Bhakta, Gyani, and Karma Yogi > > > equally. > > > Abscence of doership is " The Realization that I as body-mind > based > > > individual, called ego, am not the doer but an instrument of > > Supreme > > > Consciousness-God " . It is important to note that God in this > > context > > > is all of us together, points to ONE Totality, ONE Intelligence > > that > > > works through people, animals, so called insentient nature, and > all > > > that is unmanifest. > > > Thus being an instrument is not a fatalistic view of the life, > > > alleged as " do-nothing attitude " by many who think themselves as > > > achievers. > > > In reality, whether we consider such a realized person a Bhakta > > > (Meera, Tulsi, Nanak) or gyani(Shankara, Kabir, Ramana, > > Krishnamurti) > > > or KarmYogi(Arjuna, Gandhi, Mother Teressa), it doesn't matter to > > > her/him a bit because there is a total absence of " person " > there. > > In > > > otherwords, there is no " gyani " , there is only manifest > > Consciousness > > > experienced as Gyan-Devotion-Truth-Sat-Chit-Ananda. > > > Similarly there is no " Bhakta " , there is only an experience of > > Bhakti- > > > Being, also Sat-Chit-Ananda!. Gyani and Bhakta are practical > > > conventions for communication, not reality of our experience. > > > > > > If a trace of self consciousness(ego) remains then Bhakta or > Gyani > > or > > > Karma Yogi all have their sadhana incomplete. SO the paths are > not > > as > > > important as the goal they promise, so to speak! > > > > > > Let us uphold all approaches to Truth. > > > For all such ardent Sadhakas willing to give up anything of the > > > world, Teacher appears in different forms of Teaching! Our > > > responsibility is to be sincere Disciple, the only thing we can > be! > > > With namaskar .....Pratap > > > (Pratap Bhatt) > > > ------------------------------ -- > -- > > - > > > There was no Guru sitting between Krishna and Arjuna when Divine > > > dialogue of Geeta started. > > > > > > Dilip Mehta > > > ------------------------------ -- > -- > > -- > > > Dear Sadaks, > > > First let us know from saints who were teachers. > > > A Guru is told in many places from Geetha- Sadana Panchakam- Yoga > > > Vasista- Manasa Panchakam and by saints such as Alwars, > Nayanmars, > > > Tukaram. > > > > > > Almost all scripts and saints have said similar. What? A Sat Guru > > > talks only about athma Gyana, never keeps more than 2 pairs of > > > clothes, lives only on Bhikshaa (or Unjavirthi, collecting food > for > > > the day ONLY in 5 houses), does not possess wealth as ashram, > does > > > not form trust, does see everyone alike, is never ever angry, > leads > > > spiritual aspirants in Gyana/Bakthi Marg (towards realizing God / > > > Self, not following him). These are the qualities of SAT GURU. > > > > > > Now the question comes from where one can get Sat Guru. Bagavan > > > Vishnu and Shiva says that Guru will be sent to you when you are > > ripe > > > in mind with detachments. Bagavan Shiva came as Guru for Namdev. > > > Tukaram, Ekanath etc, Alwars, Nayanmars went to persons and gave > > > updesh. Narada went to Durva, prahalada, and downtroden. Budha, > Adi > > > Sankara had disciples but were close to one or two. > > > > > > Scearching for Guru may end up wasted time or getting caught with > > > Maya Sanyasi. One can see nowadays so many saffrin clothed > peoples. > > > Many wear gold watches, has septacle box gold plated, saffrin > > cloth > > > of glitter and shine, demands car when invited, delivers > wonderful > > > lectures etc, but much attached to many people by cell phone. > Some > > > sanyasins have many phones. Sat Guru has deep preference for > > > solitude. They know who is ripe baktha (may be from Schedule > caste) > > > and guide that person. One can see this from almost all saints. > > > Attaining God is little easier than finding a Sat Guru. > > > > > > In divine sloka- Vasudevam Sutam devam------ ends with Sri > Krishnam > > > Vande JADGATH GURUM. The pala of this sloka at end says- Koti > Jalma > > > vinasyathi (thousands of birth karmas goes away by memorising) > > > If one say he is spiritual, the other asks " have you seen God " > > > and " then show me " . GOD is attainable ONLY by Gyana says > > upanashids, > > > Gurus, scripts. God is Apprameyam Means God is NOT object to be > > shown. > > > Slowly practice to become free of desires, deeply avoid anger, > do > > not > > > be miserly, do not have disparity, carefully watch where all EGO > > > arises, meditate on GOD, do Nava rasa Bakthi, never scold anyone, > > > have no jealousy, love all in this creation and you are sure to > get > > > SAT GURU. > > > > > > NO amount of poojas, meditations, temple visits will serve the > > > purpose if you possess Dur Guna. I am not saying this. Bagavan > Sri > > > Krishna, Shiva, saints, recently by Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, > > > Ramana Rishi, Tapovan Maharaj, Pagal Baba, Sathya Sai etc. One > can > > > know clearly from Geetha , " Chetram and Chetrangniyan " meaning. > > > Sanakadhi munes are manasha Brama puthras. These saints had > abilty > > to > > > travel to any world Vykunt, Kailaya etc. But they said,' We have > > > learnt all vedas, upanashids, and scripts, but unable to put > those > > > values in practice. > > > > > > Bhramaji created a very beatiful woman to deceive a demon. After > > > creation HE was not looking at the lady. The lady asked, " Why oh > > lord > > > you are not looking at me " . Bhrama replied, " your beauty should > not > > > polute my mind " . > > > Bagavan Shiva did penance on this earth. Manmada was sent to > > disturb > > > Shiva who burnt Manmada. Bagavan Visnu did tapas in Badrinath. > > Indra > > > sent his dancer to distrube HIS tapas. Bagavan Vishnu from his > lap > > > gave one more lady(I think Menaka) as gift to Indra and put him > in > > > shame. Naradha said to Bagavan Sri Krishna, " oh bagavan, your > visnu > > > maya will not disturb me " . The result Naradha was in family > life, > > he > > > gave birth to children, lost husband and finally when He(She) > lost > > > ego Bagavan rescued naradha. > > > > > > A beatiful prostitute came to Tukaram who said on looking at > > > her, " Oh Matha Rukumayi, why you came alone without Sri > > Panduranga " . > > > The prostitute turned a saint. Similar incidents took place to > many > > > Mahans. > > > Many know Baktha Gora who chopped his hands for Panduranga > because > > > his wives touched him. That is why Bagavan came to Gora`s house > and > > > worked as servant. Same as in case of Sant Sakubai, Vilvamagal > > swamy, > > > Sri Andal, Kurur Amma, Narayana Batadri etc. > > > One needs sincere love of GOD, to shed tears on listening divine > > > stories, stick to dharmic way of life and remain silent- GURU > does > > > come to you. > > > B.Sathyanarayan > > > > > > ------------------------------ -- > -- > > -- > > > Thank u all for telling me what is wrong and what is good for me. > > > Really, I'm really thankful to you all n Swamiji on this help. I > > > wanted to know one thing, that is this necessary for me to make > > some > > > one my guru for my spiritual upliftment ? > > > > > > I mean as it is regularly said that (Bin guru gyan kahan se > paun). > > > But how can i find a true guru in this world where it is not > easy > > to > > > find someone with gyan ? > > > And i want to know . What is meditation which is used by all of > you > > > many times which have to be done in the evening and morning. How > is > > > it done? Can it be done at workplace or at home or purely it is > > done > > > in a temple or park? > > > > > > Please teach me anyone if you can. I'm new to all this untill > now > > i > > > only visited satsangs and dont know anything about it. Jai Ram > Ji > > Ki. > > > > > > OM SHREE GANESHAYE NAMAH. OM SHREE GANESHAYE NAMAH. > > > OM NAMO BHAGWATE VASUDEVAY.OM NAMAH SHIVAYE > > > HARI OM TATSAT.MAHAMANTRA HAI YE.HARIOM TATSAT > > > > > > praveen taneja > > > > > > ------------------------------ -- > -- > > -- > > > , " sadhak_insight " > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > > > A very important distinction and prescription has been offered > in > > > > this commentary. > > > > > > > > Many of us are mostly intellectually oriented aspirants who > > > > continuously judge at our level of ignorance all teachers, > > > teachings > > > > and guidance based on our limited (not so enlightened) > knowledge. > > > As > > > > a result we are quick to dismiss or look down on those who have > > > > totally surrendered to and accepted their spiritual " Guru " as > the > > > > only unquestionable source of guidance. The latter are akin to > > the > > > > true devotees who see no distinction between God and the guru > and > > > > begins to treat their guru as such, without question or > qualms. > > We > > > > who still are in the questioning stage are akin to the > aspirants > > in > > > > the Discipline of Knowledge who are enveloped with continued > > > doubts, > > > > mistrust and a self ego that we have better capability to > judge > > the > > > > ones who surpassed our level and are highly enlightened. We > seem > > to > > > > be unconsciously stuck in a rut of our own making because of > our > > > own > > > > self-ego. The easier way out seems to be total devotion, > > following > > > > the Discipline of Devotion (Bhakti) by surrendering to and > > letting > > > > Krishna become the guide " Saarathi " . > > > > > > > > Comments are welcome from other Sadhaks. > > > > > > > > In HIS Service with Love, > > > > Bitthal Gujrati > > > > > > > > Sadhak <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > Spiritual Group <sadhaka > > > > > Sadhak <sadhak_insight@> > > > > Thu, 6 Mar 2008 06:06:44 -0800 (PST) > > > > [sadhaka] About the Need for a Teacher (Mar 6, 2008) > > > > > > > > :Shree Hari: > > > > > > > > 6 March, 2008, Thursday > > > > Falgun Krishna Trayodashi, Vikram Samvat 2064, Guruvar > > > > > > > > In Gita 13:7, Lord Krishna talks about the twenty virtues to > > become > > > > free of assumed identity and affinity with the body. Of them, > one > > > > is " Aacaaryopaasanam " . A teacher who imparts knowledge and > > teaches > > > > good precepts can also be called an Acharya and serving such a > > > > teacher, one can be benefited. But here the term Acharya > denotes > > a > > > > liberated Soul. Bowing to him, paying reverence to him and > > serving > > > > him with body, mind and speech, as prescribed by the > scriptures, > > in > > > > order to make him happy - this is also devotion and service to > > him. > > > > But real service and devotion is making our lives according to > > his > > > > principles and inner expressions. The service rendered to the > > body > > > > conscious person can be rendered simply by doing things for the > > > > body, for a realized Soul, simply rendering service to the > body, > > is > > > > not real and complete service. > > > > > > > > In the Gita, in discipline of devotion, there is not a mention > > > > of " Aacaaryopaasanam " , it has only been covered in the > Discipline > > > of > > > > Knowledge. In this it reveals a very important secret. There > is > > not > > > > as much need of a preceptor, in the Discipline of Devotion as > > there > > > > is in the Discipline of Knowledge. Because a devotee, > following > > the > > > > path of devotion, entirely depends on God. So the Lord > Himself, > > by > > > > His grace, provides gain and security to him (Gita 9:22), and > > > > removes all difficulties and obstacles (Gita 18:58) and > enables > > him > > > > to behold the Divine presence, within himself (Gita 10:11) and > > > > attain essential knowledge. But in the Discipline of > Knowledge, a > > > > spiritual aspirant relies on his own strength and abilities in > > > > perfroming his spiritual practices, therefore some very subtles > > > > flaws remain in him. Such as occasionally affected by pleasure > > and > > > > pain, when spontaneously addressed by his name, unconsciously > he > > > > still thinks that he is a person and remains established > > > > in the body, he forgets his true self in sleep, also he thinks > he > > > is > > > > superior when he keeps good company and does good work. > > > > > > > > In this manner, a spiritual aspirant regards his imperfect > > > knowledge > > > > as perfect. Thus the Lord by the term " Acharyopaasanam " wants > to > > > > emphasize the fact that a spiritual aspirant following the > path > > of > > > > knowledge, should practice spiritual discipline under the > > guidance > > > > of a teacher. > > > > > > > > From " The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani " in Hindi page 847 > and > > > in > > > > English pg 1447 by Swami Ramsukhdasji > > > > > > > > Ram Ram > > > > > > > > For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami > > > > Ramsukhdasji's website. > > > > > > > > http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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