That Which Does Not Remain is Non-existent - Please Clarify

May 4, 2008

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

That which is experienced is ever changing, so doesn't remain in the

same form. However That which illumines all such experiences, is

ever Existent Consciousness, THE Knower behind all knowledge, the

Undivided, the Unchanging.

We can clearly see two aspects of our world experiences:

1) " I " -subject who experiences world by perceiving with sense organs

and conceiving with mind, the objects of the world as thoughts and

feelings.

2) Thus experienced objects, gross or subtle.

Upon investigation one will discover that " I " is not the mind-body

of a person, but is Consciousness Itself which is ever present,

while all waking, dreaming and sleeping experiences are taking

place. Body or mind or both may not be always present but

Consciousness is ever present. One's body-mind-intellect-ego is such

perceived object only, and hence transient, but mistaken as

experiencer-subject.

Krishna says " we " all are in reality, such Kshetragna-Knower-

Consciousness of our experiences of objects-kshetra, later being

transient appearances. Even if we see illusion, the perceiving

Consciousness is Real.

Dear sadhakas, this is not some hypothesis, but actual experience

taking place as you read these words. It is very important to deeply

understand the word Consciousness experientially.

As it is proclaimed in Upanishad the knower of Brahman is being

Brahman. THAT Knowing and Being are one and the same and is what we

are!

Namaskar...Pratap

(Pratap Bhatt)

-

Shree Hari

According to you, 'That which does not remain, has been at

least experienced.' But the things(senses, mind, intellect) which he

has used to experience the world, they too don't remain. They are

also non-existent, because they too belong to the same category as

the transient world and body.

Regards,

Varun

(Varun Paprunia)

Sadhak Ji;

When ever an illusion occurs, for example the famous vedic analogy

of " seeing a snake when there is rope " . In this case the illusion is

of rope, this illusion of rope is created by the existence of rope.

If the rope were not there the illusion would not occur in the first

place. For an illusion to occur something has to be perceived

wrongly. That is why Maya has been defined by the

great " AdiShankara " Brahmaashreya, SatoRajoTamoGunaatmica " iti Maya

asti " . Meaning there by it takes the support of BRAHMAN the " SAT "

and only then appears. The error or illusion is in the

identification of the real. On the other hand :Asat " has no support,

it can not be supported by " Sat " , so does not exist even as an

illusion.

In advaita there are three catagories (1) " SAT " also

called " BRAHMAN " (2) Illusion also called " error " or Maya (3) Asat

i.e non-existent.

Thank you

Ravindra

(Rabinder Koul)

-

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> This is absurd logically. That which does not remain, has been at

> least experienced. Then it is at most an illusion, but for illusion

> to occur there must be something which created illusion. So it can

> not be non-existent. That which is Asatya can not be experienced,

> hence can neither sub-rate nor can get subrated.

>

> Please share thoughts / respond / clarify.

>

> Ravindra

> (Rabinder Koul)

>

> --- On Wed, 4/30/08, Sadhak <sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Sadhak <sadhak_insight

> [sadhaka] That Which Does Not Remain is Non-existent

(April

> 30, 2008)

> " Spiritual Group " <sadhaka >

> Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 4:39 AM

>

> :Shree Hari:

>

> 30th April, 2008, Wednesday

> Baisakh Krishna Dashami, Vikram Samvat 2065, Budhvar

>

> This world is leaving us. We experience sorrow that comes from

coming together and later parting or separating. " Dukha sanyog

viyogam " But the reality is that sorrow is not coming. It is

leaving. It cannot stay. It leaves. It was going to leave, anyway.

If you accept this point, then you will become a yogi at this very

moment.

>

> All are perishing and going away. Everything. Not a thing will

> remain. One day it will become " pralay " (devoured into

nothingness).

> Actually the " pralay " , the end is already happening. Just like when

> a child is born, the dying process begins. That which is perishing,

> is non-existent.

>

> Remain ever alert. Just like this tree is a mango tree. You do not

> have to memorize and remember it at all times, " This is a mango

> tree, this is a mango tree " etc. Similarly you do not have to

> remember at all times that this is all going towards non-existence.

> Simply remain alert at all times.

>

> Just like for a rich man, the greatness, the connection is with the

> riches. Similarly with birth, the connection is with death. All

> bodies will eventually come to an end. They will perish. That which

> does not remain is non-existent. That which remains is called yoga.

>

> " Hai so sunder hai sada, nahin so sunder nahin..... " We are seeing

> what is not, and not what IS. One is a knower and the other is to

be

> known. All sense organs are moving towards destruction, but that

> which is witnessing this, ever remains. " Samatvam yoga ucchyate " He

> whose inner being is without flaws has attained this realization.

> This IS-ness is not of the world, this IS-ness is of the Supreme

> Consciousness (Paramatma, God). What remains is God. (to be

> continued)

>

> From Discourse in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji - July 25, 2003 at

> 5:00 am.

>

> Ram Ram

>

May 6, 2008

Dear Sadhaks,

When in deep sleep the dream comes that you are in beautiful garden people around known and unknown with perfect picture better than original. All senses eyes, nose, organs of action, ears etc are not functioning in that deep sleep. How does one experience that? That is illusion. Where from it came? from within human body. This illusion is experienced by even Bhagavan Bhramaji says in scriptures (sastras). Example Bhramaji took away the calves of all the cows and cattle to HIS abode from Nanda Gokulam. Sri Krishna manifested in the form of all the calves and cattle. It was after an entire year that Bhramaji realized the glories of Sri Krishna and came and asked pardon. Illusion is part and parcel of our 5 senses, 5 Boothas, 5 Karmendriyams - sense organs (5 layers of aura around one). Only on GOD realisation and becoming fully divine the illusion is not effective.

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------

Adi Shankra declared the world is false (mithya). So There are different school of thoughts...

Please see Sri Aurobindo's writings on this subject..

"There is possible a realistic as well as, illusionist Adwaita ..

The world is a manifestation of the Real and therefore is itself real. The reality is the infinite

and eternal Divine. Infinite and eternal Being, Consciousness-Force and Bliss This Divine by his

power has created the world or rather manifested it in his own infinite Being. But here in the material world

or at its base he has hidden himself in what seems to be his oppisite , Non-being(Asat) Inconscience and

Insentience....

The Being which is hidden in what seems to be an inconscient void emerges in the world first in

Matter, then in Life, then in Mind and finally as the spirit....

This is what we call evolution which is an evolution of Consciousness and an evolution of the

Spirit in things and only outwardly an evolution of species... '

Kuldip suri

-------------------------- , "sadhak_insight" <sadhak_insight wrote:>> Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!> > That which is experienced is ever changing, so doesn't remain in the > same form. However That which illumines all such experiences, is > ever Existent Consciousness, THE Knower behind all knowledge, the > Undivided, the Unchanging. > > We can clearly see two aspects of our world experiences: > > 1) "I"-subject who experiences world by perceiving with sense organs > and conceiving with mind, the objects of the world as thoughts and > feelings. > > 2) Thus experienced objects, gross or subtle.> > Upon investigation one will discover that "I" is not the mind-body > of a person, but is Consciousness Itself which is ever present, > while all waking, dreaming and sleeping experiences are taking > place. Body or mind or both may not be always present but > Consciousness is ever present. One's body-mind-intellect-ego is such > perceived object only, and hence transient, but mistaken as > experiencer-subject. > > Krishna says "we" all are in reality, such Kshetragna-Knower-> Consciousness of our experiences of objects-kshetra, later being > transient appearances. Even if we see illusion, the perceiving > Consciousness is Real.> > Dear sadhakas, this is not some hypothesis, but actual experience > taking place as you read these words. It is very important to deeply > understand the word Consciousness experientially.> > As it is proclaimed in Upanishad the knower of Brahman is being > Brahman. THAT Knowing and Being are one and the same and is what we > are!> > Namaskar...Pratap> (Pratap Bhatt) > > -> Shree Hari> > According to you, 'That which does not remain, has been at > least experienced.' But the things(senses, mind, intellect) which he > has used to experience the world, they too don't remain. They are > also non-existent, because they too belong to the same category as > the transient world and body.> > Regards,> Varun> (Varun Paprunia) > > Sadhak Ji;> > When ever an illusion occurs, for example the famous vedic analogy > of "seeing a snake when there is rope". In this case the illusion is > of rope, this illusion of rope is created by the existence of rope. > If the rope were not there the illusion would not occur in the first > place. For an illusion to occur something has to be perceived > wrongly. That is why Maya has been defined by the > great "AdiShankara" Brahmaashreya, SatoRajoTamoGunaatmica" iti Maya > asti". Meaning there by it takes the support of BRAHMAN the "SAT" > and only then appears. The error or illusion is in the > identification of the real. On the other hand :Asat" has no support, > it can not be supported by "Sat", so does not exist even as an > illusion. > > In advaita there are three catagories (1) "SAT" also > called "BRAHMAN" (2) Illusion also called "error" or Maya (3) Asat > i.e non-existent.> > Thank you> > Ravindra> (Rabinder Koul) > > -> , "sadhak_insight" > sadhak_insight@ wrote:> >> > This is absurd logically. That which does not remain, has been at> > least experienced. Then it is at most an illusion, but for illusion> > to occur there must be something which created illusion. So it can> > not be non-existent. That which is Asatya can not be experienced,> > hence can neither sub-rate nor can get subrated.> > > > Please share thoughts / respond / clarify.> > > > Ravindra> > (Rabinder Koul)> > > > --- On Wed, 4/30/08, Sadhak sadhak_insight@ wrote:> > > > > > Sadhak sadhak_insight@> > [sadhaka] That Which Does Not Remain is Non-existent > (April> > 30, 2008)> > "Spiritual Group" sadhaka > > Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 4:39 AM> > > > > > :Shree Hari:> > > > 30th April, 2008, Wednesday> > Baisakh Krishna Dashami, Vikram Samvat 2065, Budhvar> > > > This world is leaving us. We experience sorrow that comes from > coming together and later parting or separating. "Dukha sanyog > viyogam" But the reality is that sorrow is not coming. It is > leaving. It cannot stay. It leaves. It was going to leave, anyway. > If you accept this point, then you will become a yogi at this very > moment.> > > > All are perishing and going away. Everything. Not a thing will> > remain. One day it will become "pralay" (devoured into > nothingness).> > Actually the "pralay", the end is already happening. Just like when> > a child is born, the dying process begins. That which is perishing,> > is non-existent.> > > > Remain ever alert. Just like this tree is a mango tree. You do not> > have to memorize and remember it at all times, "This is a mango> > tree, this is a mango tree" etc. Similarly you do not have to> > remember at all times that this is all going towards non-existence.> > Simply remain alert at all times.> > > > Just like for a rich man, the greatness, the connection is with the> > riches. Similarly with birth, the connection is with death. All> > bodies will eventually come to an end. They will perish. That which> > does not remain is non-existent. That which remains is called yoga.> > > > "Hai so sunder hai sada, nahin so sunder nahin..... " We are seeing> > what is not, and not what IS. One is a knower and the other is to > be> > known. All sense organs are moving towards destruction, but that> > which is witnessing this, ever remains. "Samatvam yoga ucchyate" He> > whose inner being is without flaws has attained this realization.> > This IS-ness is not of the world, this IS-ness is of the Supreme> > Consciousness (Paramatma, God). What remains is God. (to be> > continued)> > > > From Discourse in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji - July 25, 2003 at> > 5:00 am.> > > > Ram Ram> >>