BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE BHAGAVAD GITA - PLEASE SHARE / CLARIFY

May 6, 2008

DEAR SADHAKAS,

PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF BHAGAVAD GITA

TAUGHT BY LORD SRI KRISHNA.

THANKING YOU,

JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNA

AMIT

INDIA.

--------------------------------

FROM THE MODERATOR

The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which further

clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

substantiate your response.

3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

sadhaka's time.

5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

organizations.

7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

number, address etc.

8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

since the message is going to the entire group.

9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content

is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit

words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed

wherever possible.

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

June 4, 2008

Shree Hari Ram Ram! Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye

dhanyavad! Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book "Sar-Sangrah" in Hindi, overview of Gita principles follow (References to relevant verses from Gitaji have been added): 1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man considers the constantly changing world to be real and permanent and he expects continuous pleasure from it, which the world cannot provide. With this lack of understanding, man is thus puzzled, he does not know what to do and what not to do with the result that he is not able to do his rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should not be under the spell of worldly attachment (moha). (Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73). 2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower of this fact is Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By giving due importance to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his rightful duty, one can get rid of worry and sorrow. (Gitaji 2/ 11-30). 3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may vary due to situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the benefit of others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji: 2/31-38, 3-35 and 18-47) 4. There are two ways to break the bondage of Karma: - Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing your duty unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action. (Gitaji: 2-47 and 4-18) - Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)... (Gitaji: 4-34/35) 5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or hate when favorable or unfavorable situations come his way, because those inflicted with joy and sorrow cannot rise above the dualities of the world to experience the supreme bliss (Parama-ananda)...(Gita: 5/ 20-22) 6. With whatever method one should attain equanimity (Samta) in the Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita). Without attaining equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification of nature (Vikaras). (Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72). 7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in everything, He is the ”Is-ness” in objects, people and actions. To accept this truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan). (Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19). 8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment when he leaves the body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all times one should think of God only when performing one's duty. This is the only way to assure that at the last minute he will remember God since it is not certain when the last moment may come (Gitaji: 8/ 5-7). 9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of which Varna, Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/ 30-33). 10. Whatever being is endowed with glory, brilliance, beauty, prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation of a spark of God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji: 10-41). 11. Think of this world as a projection of God only, each human being can experience the vision of the cosmic form (Visvarupa darsan) of God. (Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13). 12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind, intellect and ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-34, 12-8 and 18-65). 13. In this world there is only thing worth knowing which is to know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16, 21). 14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of Samsara, one must become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas, Sattvic, Rajasic and Tamasic. This can be achieved through constant and consistent exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion (Gita: 14-20). 15. The basis or the root of this world is only God, believing this, the devotee should worship God with exclusive devotion (Gita 14-26.

15-19). 16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man whirls in 84 lacs of species and goes to hell and experiences pain and suffering. To liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it is a must to get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19, 20). 17. Whatever noble

action man undertakes, he should first remember God and recite His name and then start the action (Gitaji 17/24). 18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of Vedas is contained in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji and gist of Gitaji is Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with exclusive devotion takes Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from all sins (Gita: 18/66). For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for the verses referenced above. Ram Ram Humble pranam Madan Kaura sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight wrote: DEAR SADHAKAS,PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF BHAGAVAD GITA TAUGHT BY LORD SRI

KRISHNA.THANKING YOU,JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNAAMITINDIA. -------------------------FROM THE MODERATORThe following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response.3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations.7. Kindly do not include

your personal information such as phone number, address etc.8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group.9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATORRam Ram

June 14, 2008

Dear Madan,

Namaskar!

Many thanks for this interesting summary Much, much appreciated. I

have one little query. I am a firm believer in Karma but became a

little confused with these words " God frees him from all sins. "

What of the laws of cause and effect then? Do they cease to operate?

Dhanyavad.

Ramesh Gampat

--------------------------------

Bhagwat Gita is a spark and is enough to illumination. Term essence

is for gross to juice but Bhagwat Gita is essense every where. Just

half sentense is enough for knowing the whole, and it applies to

every person differently. A small piece is like a seed that grows

into tree. Do it with full intellect and freedom of imagination, and

find truth yourself.

regards

K G

(Krishna Gopal)

Sir,

The last chapter of Gita says. " this is a " guhya' secret knowledge.

It should be taught or discussed with intelligent persons only " Why

then is it being dragged to the streets and the gutters. Its value

is lost in the hands of " Mudhas " It is being repeated for over five

millenniums and today the world is in no better position !!!

This hair splitting of words and grammar will lead us no where. "

Nahi Nahi Rakshati drukkan karane " [ Said Sri. Shankara charya ]

So, dwell deep into the fathomless depths of Yoga and come out

radiant with all doubts vanished. Yes, that light will shed on

others as that of Buddha - Shankara and their ilk and silently

enlighten others.

Ramchander homma

--------------------------------

Dear Sadhaks,

Basic priciples of Geetha. One should understand that he is on earth

to do the Karma (duties) entrusted to him. While doing such Karmas

one should be aware of Dharmas (that which is to be upheld and

preserved, that which is sanctioned by the srciptures) to be

followed. One should do such karmas surrendering completely the

fruit of actions (Karma phala) saying Narayanayethi Samarpayame (I

surrender all to that Supreme One Narayana). The three main paths

prescribed said by Bhagavan (God) by way of Path of Action (Karma

Marg), Path of Knowledge (Dhyna Marg) and Path of Devotion (Bhakthi

Marg). By following any one of these pths (marg) one is sure to

attain divinity.

Bagavath Geetha starts with , " itthi Upanashidshu " . Means the Geetha

is nectar of Upanishads. Upanishads are the nectar from the Vedas.

Vedas are from Bhagavan Vishnu. Bagavan Krishna says to Arjuna, " I

have given this message (upadesh) to Sun God " . Arjuna perplexed asks

Krishna, " YOU are just like me born and brought up, then how come

YOU told to Sun God at the time of creation " . Krishna says, " I know

the past, present and future and I know about MYSELF, but you know

only about this birth, and that is the differance between you and

ME " .

The Bhagavath Geetha, since it comes from Bagavan Himself.

Krishna says, human birth is very precious and it is only to be used

to attain divinity. Bhagavan says that one should not get attached

to worldly matters as it gives births and deaths. One should

surrender all his actions (karmas) as stated in the three

paths. " By this way one can reach ME " , Bhagavan says.

Bhagavan says, " Kama yesha, krodha yesha==== " . Means that from

unfulfilled desires, comes anger, and anger brings jealousy- so

desire is the root of all evils.

Dear Sadhaks, make all evils into virtues, by having desire for only

God (desire to attain only HIM). Let all anger, jealousy, greed be

directed towards God. Greed of spending more and more time with

God, Jealous of listening to saint's stories and their love and

determination for God. etc

Namaste

B.Sathyanarayan

--------------------------------

, Madan kaura <madan_kaura

wrote:

>

> Shree Hari

>

> Ram Ram!

>

> Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye dhanyavad!

>

> Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book " Sar-Sangrah " in Hindi, overview

of Gita principles follow (References to relevant verses from Gitaji

have been added):

>

> 1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man considers the

constantly changing world to be real and permanent and he expects

continuous pleasure from it, which the world cannot provide. With

this lack of understanding, man is thus puzzled, he does not know

what to do and what not to do with the result that he is not able to

do his rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should not be under

the spell of worldly attachment (moha).

> (Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73).

>

> 2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower of this fact

is Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By giving due

importance to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his rightful duty,

one can get rid of worry and sorrow.

> (Gitaji 2/ 11-30).

>

> 3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may vary due to

situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the benefit of

others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji: 2/31-38, 3-35

and 18-47)

>

> 4. There are two ways to break the bondage of Karma:

> - Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing your duty

unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action. (Gitaji: 2-

47 and 4-18)

> - Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)... (Gitaji: 4-

34/35)

>

> 5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or hate when

favorable or unfavorable situations come his way, because those

inflicted with joy and sorrow cannot rise above the dualities of the

world to experience the supreme bliss (Parama-ananda)...(Gita: 5/ 20-

22)

>

> 6. With whatever method one should attain equanimity (Samta) in

the Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita). Without attaining

equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification of nature

(Vikaras).

> (Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72).

>

> 7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in everything,

He is the " Is-ness " in objects, people and actions. To accept this

truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan).

> (Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19).

>

> 8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment when he leaves

the body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all times one

should think of God only when performing one's duty. This is the

only way to assure that at the last minute he will remember God

since it is not certain when the last moment may come (Gitaji: 8/ 5-

7).

>

> 9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of which Varna,

Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/ 30-33).

>

> 10. Whatever being is endowed with glory, brilliance, beauty,

prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation of a spark of

God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji: 10-41).

>

> 11. Think of this world as a projection of God only, each human

being can experience the vision of the cosmic form (Visvarupa

darsan) of God.

> (Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13).

>

> 12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind, intellect

and ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-34, 12-8 and 18-

65).

>

> 13. In this world there is only thing worth knowing which is to

know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16, 21).

>

> 14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of Samsara, one

must become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas, Sattvic,

Rajasic and Tamasic. This can be achieved through constant and

consistent exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion (Gita: 14-20).

>

> 15. The basis or the root of this world is only God, believing

this, the devotee should worship God with exclusive devotion (Gita

14-26. 15-19).

>

> 16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man whirls in 84 lacs

of species and goes to hell and experiences pain and suffering. To

liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it is a must to

get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19, 20).

>

> 17. Whatever noble action man undertakes, he should first

remember God and recite His name and then start the action (Gitaji

17/24).

>

> 18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of Vedas is

contained in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji and gist of

Gitaji is Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with exclusive

devotion takes Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from all sins

(Gita: 18/66).

>

> For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for the verses

referenced above.

>

> Ram Ram

>

> Humble pranam

> Madan Kaura

>

> sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> DEAR SADHAKAS,

>

> PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF BHAGAVAD GITA

> TAUGHT BY LORD SRI KRISHNA.

>

> THANKING YOU,

> JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNA

> AMIT

> INDIA.

>

> -------------------------

> FROM THE MODERATOR

>

> The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

>

> GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

> related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which further

> clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

> 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

> substantiate your response.

> 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> sadhaka's time.

> 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> organizations.

> 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> number, address etc.

> 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> since the message is going to the entire group.

> 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

> 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

content

> is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

> 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to

Sanskrit

> words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

bracketed

> wherever possible.

>

> MODERATOR

> Ram Ram

>

June 14, 2008

Hari Om

The Law of Karma would still operate , but it cease to impact you

and you shall become immune from the same. A typical storm of the

God 's kripa will start flowing around you and each and every

happenning in your life will aid to the extinguishment of your past

sins. Simultaneously because of your turning away from the world

and your facing towards the God , you shall naturally and

effortlessly stop incurring new sins altogether. Hence your life

shall take a fast U turn in a decisive manner and you shall stop

getting worried. Old Karmas will accelerate giving you results, you

shall be unmindful of the results, new Karmas will not sow any seeds

of Bondage and you shall become free in a superfast manner- free

from all sins, free from Bondage, free from The Law of Karma, free

from the chains of birth, death, birth ..., free from all sorrows,

all duties, all debts!

The Law of Cause and Effect shall cease to be of any importance to

you for the past Karmas made by you, and the Law shall become

inoperative for you for the present and future Karmas because the

cause itself has undergone the change from bondage creating " karma "

to non bondage creating , non result giving " Akarma " (refer Geetaji

4:17 to 4:20) . Suddenly and faster than your imagination you shall

find yourself to be the type of person referred in Geetaji 4:20 to

4:23

Jai Shree Krishna

N B Vyas

--

The laws of cause and effect operate only so long as we have the

sense of doership. Once we surrender to God, then whatever we

do is God's work only and he takes care of us - " Jo jako sharano

liyo, tako taki laaj " .

Jai Sri Krsna

Rajendra

(Rajendra Bohra)

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Dear Madan,

>

> Namaskar!

>

> Many thanks for this interesting summary Much, much appreciated.

I

> have one little query. I am a firm believer in Karma but became a

> little confused with these words " God frees him from all sins. "

> What of the laws of cause and effect then? Do they cease to

operate?

>

> Dhanyavad.

> Ramesh Gampat

> --------------------------------

>

> Bhagwat Gita is a spark and is enough to illumination. Term

essence

> is for gross to juice but Bhagwat Gita is essense every where.

Just

> half sentense is enough for knowing the whole, and it applies to

> every person differently. A small piece is like a seed that grows

> into tree. Do it with full intellect and freedom of imagination,

and

> find truth yourself.

> regards

> K G

> (Krishna Gopal)

>

> Sir,

> The last chapter of Gita says. " this is a " guhya' secret

knowledge.

> It should be taught or discussed with intelligent persons only "

Why

> then is it being dragged to the streets and the gutters. Its value

> is lost in the hands of " Mudhas " It is being repeated for over

five

> millenniums and today the world is in no better position !!!

> This hair splitting of words and grammar will lead us no where. "

> Nahi Nahi Rakshati drukkan karane " [ Said Sri. Shankara charya ]

> So, dwell deep into the fathomless depths of Yoga and come out

> radiant with all doubts vanished. Yes, that light will shed on

> others as that of Buddha - Shankara and their ilk and silently

> enlighten others.

>

> Ramchander homma

> --------------------------------

> Dear Sadhaks,

>

> Basic priciples of Geetha. One should understand that he is on

earth

> to do the Karma (duties) entrusted to him. While doing such Karmas

> one should be aware of Dharmas (that which is to be upheld and

> preserved, that which is sanctioned by the srciptures) to be

> followed. One should do such karmas surrendering completely the

> fruit of actions (Karma phala) saying Narayanayethi Samarpayame (I

> surrender all to that Supreme One Narayana). The three main paths

> prescribed said by Bhagavan (God) by way of Path of Action (Karma

> Marg), Path of Knowledge (Dhyna Marg) and Path of Devotion

(Bhakthi

> Marg). By following any one of these pths (marg) one is sure to

> attain divinity.

>

> Bagavath Geetha starts with , " itthi Upanashidshu " . Means the

Geetha

> is nectar of Upanishads. Upanishads are the nectar from the Vedas.

> Vedas are from Bhagavan Vishnu. Bagavan Krishna says to Arjuna, "

I

> have given this message (upadesh) to Sun God " . Arjuna perplexed

asks

> Krishna, " YOU are just like me born and brought up, then how come

> YOU told to Sun God at the time of creation " . Krishna says, " I

know

> the past, present and future and I know about MYSELF, but you know

> only about this birth, and that is the differance between you and

> ME " .

>

> The Bhagavath Geetha, since it comes from Bagavan Himself.

> Krishna says, human birth is very precious and it is only to be

used

> to attain divinity. Bhagavan says that one should not get attached

> to worldly matters as it gives births and deaths. One should

> surrender all his actions (karmas) as stated in the three

> paths. " By this way one can reach ME " , Bhagavan says.

> Bhagavan says, " Kama yesha, krodha yesha==== " . Means that from

> unfulfilled desires, comes anger, and anger brings jealousy- so

> desire is the root of all evils.

>

> Dear Sadhaks, make all evils into virtues, by having desire for

only

> God (desire to attain only HIM). Let all anger, jealousy, greed be

> directed towards God. Greed of spending more and more time with

> God, Jealous of listening to saint's stories and their love and

> determination for God. etc

> Namaste

>

> B.Sathyanarayan

>

> --------------------------------

> , Madan kaura <madan_kaura@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Shree Hari

> >

> > Ram Ram!

> >

> > Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye dhanyavad!

> >

> > Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book " Sar-Sangrah " in Hindi,

overview

> of Gita principles follow (References to relevant verses from

Gitaji

> have been added):

> >

> > 1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man considers the

> constantly changing world to be real and permanent and he expects

> continuous pleasure from it, which the world cannot provide. With

> this lack of understanding, man is thus puzzled, he does not know

> what to do and what not to do with the result that he is not able

to

> do his rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should not be

under

> the spell of worldly attachment (moha).

> > (Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73).

> >

> > 2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower of this

fact

> is Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By giving due

> importance to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his rightful

duty,

> one can get rid of worry and sorrow.

> > (Gitaji 2/ 11-30).

> >

> > 3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may vary due to

> situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the benefit of

> others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji: 2/31-38, 3-

35

> and 18-47)

> >

> > 4. There are two ways to break the bondage of Karma:

> > - Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing your duty

> unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action. (Gitaji: 2-

> 47 and 4-18)

> > - Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)... (Gitaji: 4-

> 34/35)

> >

> > 5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or hate when

> favorable or unfavorable situations come his way, because those

> inflicted with joy and sorrow cannot rise above the dualities of

the

> world to experience the supreme bliss (Parama-ananda)...(Gita: 5/

20-

> 22)

> >

> > 6. With whatever method one should attain equanimity (Samta)

in

> the Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita). Without attaining

> equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification of nature

> (Vikaras).

> > (Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72).

> >

> > 7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in

everything,

> He is the " Is-ness " in objects, people and actions. To accept this

> truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan).

> > (Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19).

> >

> > 8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment when he leaves

> the body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all times one

> should think of God only when performing one's duty. This is the

> only way to assure that at the last minute he will remember God

> since it is not certain when the last moment may come (Gitaji: 8/

5-

> 7).

> >

> > 9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of which

Varna,

> Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/ 30-33).

> >

> > 10. Whatever being is endowed with glory, brilliance, beauty,

> prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation of a spark

of

> God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji: 10-41).

> >

> > 11. Think of this world as a projection of God only, each

human

> being can experience the vision of the cosmic form (Visvarupa

> darsan) of God.

> > (Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13).

> >

> > 12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind, intellect

> and ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-34, 12-8 and

18-

> 65).

> >

> > 13. In this world there is only thing worth knowing which is

to

> know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16, 21).

> >

> > 14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of Samsara, one

> must become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas, Sattvic,

> Rajasic and Tamasic. This can be achieved through constant and

> consistent exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion (Gita: 14-

20).

> >

> > 15. The basis or the root of this world is only God, believing

> this, the devotee should worship God with exclusive devotion (Gita

> 14-26. 15-19).

> >

> > 16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man whirls in 84

lacs

> of species and goes to hell and experiences pain and suffering. To

> liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it is a must

to

> get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19, 20).

> >

> > 17. Whatever noble action man undertakes, he should first

> remember God and recite His name and then start the action (Gitaji

> 17/24).

> >

> > 18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of Vedas is

> contained in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji and gist

of

> Gitaji is Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with exclusive

> devotion takes Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from all sins

> (Gita: 18/66).

> >

> > For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for the verses

> referenced above.

> >

> > Ram Ram

> >

> > Humble pranam

> > Madan Kaura

> >

> > sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > DEAR SADHAKAS,

> >

> > PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF BHAGAVAD GITA

> > TAUGHT BY LORD SRI KRISHNA.

> >

> > THANKING YOU,

> > JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNA

> > AMIT

> > INDIA.

> >

> > -------------------------

> > FROM THE MODERATOR

> >

> > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

> >

> > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts

> > related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which further

> > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

> > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to

> > substantiate your response.

> > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

> > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting

> > sadhaka's time.

> > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > organizations.

> > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone

> > number, address etc.

> > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual

> > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted.

> > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

> content

> > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

> > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth,

> > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to

> Sanskrit

> > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> bracketed

> > wherever possible.

> >

> > MODERATOR

> > Ram Ram

> >

>

June 15, 2008

Dear All,

The law of karma is a law and none is free from it until all sense

of doership is relinquished, until there is no more sense of agency

or " Iness. " One is held to the consequences of one's accumulated

karma until all karmas are exhausted.

We thus need to make a distinction between accumulated karma and new

karma. For him (or her) who sees one in all and all in one, who is

completely unattached and free of desire, karma ceases to be. S/he

accumulates no karma. But one can only get there if one exhaust all

accumulated karma; before that one is not free from the consequences

of karma.

Such is my view but I stand corrected.

Ramesh

(Ramesh Gampat)

-------------------------------

Does it mean that you can do sins, pray and ask for forgiveness and

God forgets. God helps you to wash away all your sins, if you follow

Him ?

Ravindra

(Ravi Raghuwanshi)

-------------------------------

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Hari Om

>

> The Law of Karma would still operate , but it cease to impact you

> and you shall become immune from the same. A typical storm of the

> God 's kripa will start flowing around you and each and every

> happenning in your life will aid to the extinguishment of your past

> sins. Simultaneously because of your turning away from the world

> and your facing towards the God , you shall naturally and

> effortlessly stop incurring new sins altogether. Hence your life

> shall take a fast U turn in a decisive manner and you shall stop

> getting worried. Old Karmas will accelerate giving you results, you

> shall be unmindful of the results, new Karmas will not sow any

seeds

> of Bondage and you shall become free in a superfast manner- free

> from all sins, free from Bondage, free from The Law of Karma, free

> from the chains of birth, death, birth ..., free from all sorrows,

> all duties, all debts!

>

> The Law of Cause and Effect shall cease to be of any importance to

> you for the past Karmas made by you, and the Law shall become

> inoperative for you for the present and future Karmas because the

> cause itself has undergone the change from bondage

creating " karma "

> to non bondage creating , non result giving " Akarma " (refer Geetaji

> 4:17 to 4:20) . Suddenly and faster than your imagination you shall

> find yourself to be the type of person referred in Geetaji 4:20 to

> 4:23

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> N B Vyas

> -

-

>

> The laws of cause and effect operate only so long as we have the

> sense of doership. Once we surrender to God, then whatever we

> do is God's work only and he takes care of us - " Jo jako sharano

> liyo, tako taki laaj " .

>

> Jai Sri Krsna

>

> Rajendra

> (Rajendra Bohra)

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Madan,

> >

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > Many thanks for this interesting summary Much, much appreciated.

> I

> > have one little query. I am a firm believer in Karma but became

a

> > little confused with these words " God frees him from all sins. "

> > What of the laws of cause and effect then? Do they cease to

> operate?

> >

> > Dhanyavad.

> > Ramesh Gampat

> > --------------------------------

> >

> > Bhagwat Gita is a spark and is enough to illumination. Term

> essence

> > is for gross to juice but Bhagwat Gita is essense every where.

> Just

> > half sentense is enough for knowing the whole, and it applies to

> > every person differently. A small piece is like a seed that grows

> > into tree. Do it with full intellect and freedom of imagination,

> and

> > find truth yourself.

> > regards

> > K G

> > (Krishna Gopal)

> > --------------------------------

-

> > Sir,

> > The last chapter of Gita says. " this is a " guhya' secret

> knowledge.

> > It should be taught or discussed with intelligent persons only "

> Why

> > then is it being dragged to the streets and the gutters. Its

value

> > is lost in the hands of " Mudhas " It is being repeated for over

> five

> > millenniums and today the world is in no better position !!!

> > This hair splitting of words and grammar will lead us no where. "

> > Nahi Nahi Rakshati drukkan karane " [ Said Sri. Shankara charya ]

> > So, dwell deep into the fathomless depths of Yoga and come out

> > radiant with all doubts vanished. Yes, that light will shed on

> > others as that of Buddha - Shankara and their ilk and silently

> > enlighten others.

> >

> > Ramchander homma

> > --------------------------------

> > Dear Sadhaks,

> >

> > Basic priciples of Geetha. One should understand that he is on

> earth

> > to do the Karma (duties) entrusted to him. While doing such

Karmas

> > one should be aware of Dharmas (that which is to be upheld and

> > preserved, that which is sanctioned by the srciptures) to be

> > followed. One should do such karmas surrendering completely the

> > fruit of actions (Karma phala) saying Narayanayethi Samarpayame

(I

> > surrender all to that Supreme One Narayana). The three main paths

> > prescribed said by Bhagavan (God) by way of Path of Action (Karma

> > Marg), Path of Knowledge (Dhyna Marg) and Path of Devotion

> (Bhakthi

> > Marg). By following any one of these pths (marg) one is sure to

> > attain divinity.

> >

> > Bagavath Geetha starts with , " itthi Upanashidshu " . Means the

> Geetha

> > is nectar of Upanishads. Upanishads are the nectar from the

Vedas.

> > Vedas are from Bhagavan Vishnu. Bagavan Krishna says to Arjuna, "

> I

> > have given this message (upadesh) to Sun God " . Arjuna perplexed

> asks

> > Krishna, " YOU are just like me born and brought up, then how

come

> > YOU told to Sun God at the time of creation " . Krishna says, " I

> know

> > the past, present and future and I know about MYSELF, but you

know

> > only about this birth, and that is the differance between you and

> > ME " .

> >

> > The Bhagavath Geetha, since it comes from Bagavan Himself.

> > Krishna says, human birth is very precious and it is only to be

> used

> > to attain divinity. Bhagavan says that one should not get

attached

> > to worldly matters as it gives births and deaths. One should

> > surrender all his actions (karmas) as stated in the three

> > paths. " By this way one can reach ME " , Bhagavan says.

> > Bhagavan says, " Kama yesha, krodha yesha==== " . Means that from

> > unfulfilled desires, comes anger, and anger brings jealousy- so

> > desire is the root of all evils.

> >

> > Dear Sadhaks, make all evils into virtues, by having desire for

> only

> > God (desire to attain only HIM). Let all anger, jealousy, greed

be

> > directed towards God. Greed of spending more and more time with

> > God, Jealous of listening to saint's stories and their love and

> > determination for God. etc

> > Namaste

> >

> > B.Sathyanarayan

> >

> > --------------------------------

> > , Madan kaura <madan_kaura@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Shree Hari

> > >

> > > Ram Ram!

> > >

> > > Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye dhanyavad!

> > >

> > > Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book " Sar-Sangrah " in Hindi,

> overview

> > of Gita principles follow (References to relevant verses from

> Gitaji

> > have been added):

> > >

> > > 1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man considers the

> > constantly changing world to be real and permanent and he expects

> > continuous pleasure from it, which the world cannot provide. With

> > this lack of understanding, man is thus puzzled, he does not know

> > what to do and what not to do with the result that he is not able

> to

> > do his rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should not be

> under

> > the spell of worldly attachment (moha).

> > > (Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73).

> > >

> > > 2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower of this

> fact

> > is Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By giving due

> > importance to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his rightful

> duty,

> > one can get rid of worry and sorrow.

> > > (Gitaji 2/ 11-30).

> > >

> > > 3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may vary due to

> > situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the benefit of

> > others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji: 2/31-38, 3-

> 35

> > and 18-47)

> > >

> > > 4. There are two ways to break the bondage of Karma:

> > > - Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing your duty

> > unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action. (Gitaji:

2-

> > 47 and 4-18)

> > > - Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)... (Gitaji:

4-

> > 34/35)

> > >

> > > 5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or hate when

> > favorable or unfavorable situations come his way, because those

> > inflicted with joy and sorrow cannot rise above the dualities of

> the

> > world to experience the supreme bliss (Parama-ananda)...(Gita: 5/

> 20-

> > 22)

> > >

> > > 6. With whatever method one should attain equanimity (Samta)

> in

> > the Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita). Without

attaining

> > equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification of nature

> > (Vikaras).

> > > (Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72).

> > >

> > > 7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in

> everything,

> > He is the " Is-ness " in objects, people and actions. To accept

this

> > truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan).

> > > (Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19).

> > >

> > > 8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment when he

leaves

> > the body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all times one

> > should think of God only when performing one's duty. This is the

> > only way to assure that at the last minute he will remember God

> > since it is not certain when the last moment may come (Gitaji:

8/

> 5-

> > 7).

> > >

> > > 9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of which

> Varna,

> > Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/ 30-33).

> > >

> > > 10. Whatever being is endowed with glory, brilliance, beauty,

> > prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation of a spark

> of

> > God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji: 10-41).

> > >

> > > 11. Think of this world as a projection of God only, each

> human

> > being can experience the vision of the cosmic form (Visvarupa

> > darsan) of God.

> > > (Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13).

> > >

> > > 12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind, intellect

> > and ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-34, 12-8 and

> 18-

> > 65).

> > >

> > > 13. In this world there is only thing worth knowing which is

> to

> > know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16, 21).

> > >

> > > 14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of Samsara, one

> > must become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas, Sattvic,

> > Rajasic and Tamasic. This can be achieved through constant and

> > consistent exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion (Gita: 14-

> 20).

> > >

> > > 15. The basis or the root of this world is only God,

believing

> > this, the devotee should worship God with exclusive devotion

(Gita

> > 14-26. 15-19).

> > >

> > > 16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man whirls in 84

> lacs

> > of species and goes to hell and experiences pain and suffering.

To

> > liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it is a must

> to

> > get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19, 20).

> > >

> > > 17. Whatever noble action man undertakes, he should first

> > remember God and recite His name and then start the action

(Gitaji

> > 17/24).

> > >

> > > 18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of Vedas is

> > contained in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji and gist

> of

> > Gitaji is Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with exclusive

> > devotion takes Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from all sins

> > (Gita: 18/66).

> > >

> > > For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for the verses

> > referenced above.

> > >

> > > Ram Ram

> > >

> > > Humble pranam

> > > Madan Kaura

> > >

> > > sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > DEAR SADHAKAS,

> > >

> > > PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF BHAGAVAD

GITA

> > > TAUGHT BY LORD SRI KRISHNA.

> > >

> > > THANKING YOU,

> > > JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNA

> > > AMIT

> > > INDIA.

> > >

> > > -------------------------

> > > FROM THE MODERATOR

> > >

> > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

> > >

> > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their

doubts

> > > related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which further

> > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

> > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures

to

> > > substantiate your response.

> > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to

the

> > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

respecting

> > > sadhaka's time.

> > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > > organizations.

> > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as

phone

> > > number, address etc.

> > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular

individual

> > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be

posted.

> > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

> > content

> > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

> > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

youth,

> > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to

> > Sanskrit

> > > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > bracketed

> > > wherever possible.

> > >

> > > MODERATOR

> > > Ram Ram

> > >

> >

>

June 15, 2008

Hari Om

Re Saadhak Raghuvanshi's query on the subject. No it does not mean

that.you do the sins, ask for forgiveness and God forgets that. You

are right however in observing that God helps in getting you free.

We must understand first the fact that we are children of God in the

truest sense and so is everybody else. Our strongest enemy is as good

a son of God as are we.Hence God has to sit in Equanimity and has to

be disinterested friend of ours.In his vision our good or bad conduct

has no relevance. His yardstick therefore is not our " sins " at all.

His yardstick is " your sense of mineness with Him " .

When you realise your real " mineness " , when you realise that you are

son of God you turn naturally towards Him. As soon as you turn towards

him , for you the Law of Karma instantly(as per Gitaji in " kshipram "

time-less than a second) ceases to operate. Hence the very reasons of

incurring sins get eliminated.

When you consider your body or the world to be " mine " , you are

misidentifying yourself and hence you are the " doer " of your Karmas

maintaining an independent identity of your own. Naturally then you

must be responsible for deeds-because you are presuming " doership " by

you in your independent capacity. Law of Karma comes into play

therefore, because you must then be responsible for good or bad

deeds.If you consider yourself to be as good as God,or of the God or

for the God - then your Karmas will cease to be for you and hence they

will loose the capacity to bind you now or in future. They will become

" Akarmas "

Therefore your past Karmas will now accelerate giving you results and

thereby extinguish themselves upon giving you the results. Old debts

will get repaid. No new debts are being incurred by you as explained

above. In the end what you can become except " FREE " !

Your results for past deeds will come to you -certainly.Here now that

disinterested friend of ours, that Father of us, that God helps. He

now changes his character from being " disinterested friend " to a

loving father because of change in our character_ our " mineness " (Read

Gitaji 9:29). That father does not change his Law of Karma for our

past deeds. He helps us by granting " Daivi Sampada " (read Gitaji 16:1

to 16:5) to us so that we may happily and easily suffer the

consequences of our past deeds. He makes us so solid that any

happening in our worldly life ceases to impact us. He drives us to the

Equanimity. He awakens our conscience(viveka) and starts operating

full time through that conscience.Earlier He used to give sudden calls

through conscience but infrequently based on our respect levels.Now He

is operating full time. Now past deeds have no choice but to

accelerate giving you results. You go on a superfast track. No new

Karma are getting accumulated. You can only be " FREE " now.

This how your queries get solved. God does not change his Law of

Karma, He changes you , O Son of God! He does not forgive you, He

grants you immunity to the punishment. He does not forget your past

deeds, He makes you forget that. He helps you certainly. Who else can

help you otherwise?

Jai Shree Krishna

N B Vyas

-

Dear Khagah (fellow travellers in sky of truth)

What is the essense of the Gita, and how it is different from rest of

studies?

We all study in universities and become professionals/specialist in a

particular field and somehow painstakingly become rich and famous, but

yet not developed with compassion and knowledge and love; and this

conflict between Daksha (competent) and Enlightened (Shiva) begins. In

India, not difficult to find doctors, lawyers, judges, police and

politicians, government officers and clerks how are they self centered

and so much corrupt that normal people are afraid of them and avoid to

go or be in contact with them. The ego, money power, authority has

made these professionals or specialist fallen in catagory of

criminals. The under current started, and competence fall from grace

and power. It happened all the time in history.

In SriMad Bhaagwat, this conflict is very beautifully explained, how

Daksha (competent, specialists) was short-sighted and full of ego,

power and skill and position and, he, opposed the Shiva (enlightened,

care free, defenseless, full with love, truth). Sati (wife of Shiva,

and daughter of Daksha) was in midst of these both, confused as to

whom she should choose without annoying anyone. Same situation of

Sati was arisen again with Arjun who was son and grand son of Bhishm,

and Drtrashtra (equivalent of Daksha) and on the other hand, has Sri

Krishna (equivalent of Shiva). Arjun as well as Sati had problem in

choosing the right side, and Sri Krishna (Shiva) and DratRashtra

(Daksha) fought the Mahabharata.

Bhagwat Gita is not for making any one competent (daksha) but

Enlightened (shiva). This explains the risk of being short-sighted or

microscopic intellect, and rather it emphasizes on telescopic

intellect, or long-sighted detached or independent view of the truth.

Bhagwat Gita is a conference of Krishna with Arjun, and DharatRashtra

(aided by Sanjaya). Bhagwat Gita begins after the following statement

of Arjun to Shri Krishna

" kaparnya dosho pahatah sva bhaavh, prkshyami tvaam dharma sammodh

chetah, yat shreah sya nischitam bruhi me tat, shish es te ham shyadhi

maam tvam prapannam. "

Arjun was undoubtedly highly educated and taught by Dronacharya in the

fields of weaponary, and justice and administration. But in the war,

nothing worked and he was indecisive and shaking by fear of

consequences of his ensuing actions. Drona his teacher, stood against

him, and so were his grandfather, so many brothers and soldiers on the

both sides. He was in midst of cobweb of thoughts, and worded himself

as coward. Kaparnya dosho (sick of cowardice), pahath sva bhaavah

(whose self nature is fallen).

Arjun faced a crisis of 'Sva bhaav' threatened by defenses of his own

prejudice, ego, relationship biases and attachment. His independent

nature (sva bhaav) was lost. Defenses or bhaav (different such as

valuation, prejudice) became counterproductive. In presence of bhaav,

the sva bhaav gets limited. Bhagwat Gita is based on words that are

technically precise because Arjun was not in a class room or

contemplation in retreat but in situation of a war. Sri Krishna taught

non-violence (action of non-reaction) and its applicability in a war

with DhratRashtra (blind/insensitive law and order: on which a nation

'rashtra' rests 'dhrat').

In every day life, each one of us are in midst of a war, and Krishna

inside protect our swa bhaav from falling down. This sva bhaav and

boundary/defenses (or bhaav) are crucial. If defenses are high, the

self nature is at peril.

This voice of the Gita must find place for discussion in tirth of Gita

talk.

Regards

K G

(Krishna Gopal)

-

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>

> The law of karma is a law and none is free from it until all sense

> of doership is relinquished, until there is no more sense of agency

> or " Iness. " One is held to the consequences of one's accumulated

> karma until all karmas are exhausted.

>

> We thus need to make a distinction between accumulated karma and new

> karma. For him (or her) who sees one in all and all in one, who is

> completely unattached and free of desire, karma ceases to be. S/he

> accumulates no karma. But one can only get there if one exhaust all

> accumulated karma; before that one is not free from the consequences

> of karma.

>

> Such is my view but I stand corrected.

>

> Ramesh

> (Ramesh Gampat)

>

> -------------------------------

>

> Does it mean that you can do sins, pray and ask for forgiveness and

> God forgets. God helps you to wash away all your sins, if you follow

> Him ?

>

> Ravindra

> (Ravi Raghuwanshi)

> -------------------------------

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Hari Om

> >

> > The Law of Karma would still operate , but it cease to impact you

> > and you shall become immune from the same. A typical storm of the

> > God 's kripa will start flowing around you and each and every

> > happenning in your life will aid to the extinguishment of your past

> > sins. Simultaneously because of your turning away from the world

> > and your facing towards the God , you shall naturally and

> > effortlessly stop incurring new sins altogether. Hence your life

> > shall take a fast U turn in a decisive manner and you shall stop

> > getting worried. Old Karmas will accelerate giving you results, you

> > shall be unmindful of the results, new Karmas will not sow any

> seeds

> > of Bondage and you shall become free in a superfast manner- free

> > from all sins, free from Bondage, free from The Law of Karma, free

> > from the chains of birth, death, birth ..., free from all sorrows,

> > all duties, all debts!

> >

> > The Law of Cause and Effect shall cease to be of any importance to

> > you for the past Karmas made by you, and the Law shall become

> > inoperative for you for the present and future Karmas because the

> > cause itself has undergone the change from bondage

> creating " karma "

> > to non bondage creating , non result giving " Akarma " (refer Geetaji

> > 4:17 to 4:20) . Suddenly and faster than your imagination you shall

> > find yourself to be the type of person referred in Geetaji 4:20 to

> > 4:23

> >

> > Jai Shree Krishna

> >

> > N B Vyas

> > -

> -

> >

> > The laws of cause and effect operate only so long as we have the

> > sense of doership. Once we surrender to God, then whatever we

> > do is God's work only and he takes care of us - " Jo jako sharano

> > liyo, tako taki laaj " .

> >

> > Jai Sri Krsna

> >

> > Rajendra

> > (Rajendra Bohra)

> >

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Madan,

> > >

> > > Namaskar!

> > >

> > > Many thanks for this interesting summary Much, much appreciated.

> > I

> > > have one little query. I am a firm believer in Karma but became

> a

> > > little confused with these words " God frees him from all sins. "

> > > What of the laws of cause and effect then? Do they cease to

> > operate?

> > >

> > > Dhanyavad.

> > > Ramesh Gampat

> > > --------------------------------

> > >

> > > Bhagwat Gita is a spark and is enough to illumination. Term

> > essence

> > > is for gross to juice but Bhagwat Gita is essense every where.

> > Just

> > > half sentense is enough for knowing the whole, and it applies to

> > > every person differently. A small piece is like a seed that grows

> > > into tree. Do it with full intellect and freedom of imagination,

> > and

> > > find truth yourself.

> > > regards

> > > K G

> > > (Krishna Gopal)

> > > --------------------------------

> -

> > > Sir,

> > > The last chapter of Gita says. " this is a " guhya' secret

> > knowledge.

> > > It should be taught or discussed with intelligent persons only "

> > Why

> > > then is it being dragged to the streets and the gutters. Its

> value

> > > is lost in the hands of " Mudhas " It is being repeated for over

> > five

> > > millenniums and today the world is in no better position !!!

> > > This hair splitting of words and grammar will lead us no where. "

> > > Nahi Nahi Rakshati drukkan karane " [ Said Sri. Shankara charya ]

> > > So, dwell deep into the fathomless depths of Yoga and come out

> > > radiant with all doubts vanished. Yes, that light will shed on

> > > others as that of Buddha - Shankara and their ilk and silently

> > > enlighten others.

> > >

> > > Ramchander homma

> > > --------------------------------

> > > Dear Sadhaks,

> > >

> > > Basic priciples of Geetha. One should understand that he is on

> > earth

> > > to do the Karma (duties) entrusted to him. While doing such

> Karmas

> > > one should be aware of Dharmas (that which is to be upheld and

> > > preserved, that which is sanctioned by the srciptures) to be

> > > followed. One should do such karmas surrendering completely the

> > > fruit of actions (Karma phala) saying Narayanayethi Samarpayame

> (I

> > > surrender all to that Supreme One Narayana). The three main paths

> > > prescribed said by Bhagavan (God) by way of Path of Action (Karma

> > > Marg), Path of Knowledge (Dhyna Marg) and Path of Devotion

> > (Bhakthi

> > > Marg). By following any one of these pths (marg) one is sure to

> > > attain divinity.

> > >

> > > Bagavath Geetha starts with , " itthi Upanashidshu " . Means the

> > Geetha

> > > is nectar of Upanishads. Upanishads are the nectar from the

> Vedas.

> > > Vedas are from Bhagavan Vishnu. Bagavan Krishna says to Arjuna, "

> > I

> > > have given this message (upadesh) to Sun God " . Arjuna perplexed

> > asks

> > > Krishna, " YOU are just like me born and brought up, then how

> come

> > > YOU told to Sun God at the time of creation " . Krishna says, " I

> > know

> > > the past, present and future and I know about MYSELF, but you

> know

> > > only about this birth, and that is the differance between you and

> > > ME " .

> > >

> > > The Bhagavath Geetha, since it comes from Bagavan Himself.

> > > Krishna says, human birth is very precious and it is only to be

> > used

> > > to attain divinity. Bhagavan says that one should not get

> attached

> > > to worldly matters as it gives births and deaths. One should

> > > surrender all his actions (karmas) as stated in the three

> > > paths. " By this way one can reach ME " , Bhagavan says.

> > > Bhagavan says, " Kama yesha, krodha yesha==== " . Means that from

> > > unfulfilled desires, comes anger, and anger brings jealousy- so

> > > desire is the root of all evils.

> > >

> > > Dear Sadhaks, make all evils into virtues, by having desire for

> > only

> > > God (desire to attain only HIM). Let all anger, jealousy, greed

> be

> > > directed towards God. Greed of spending more and more time with

> > > God, Jealous of listening to saint's stories and their love and

> > > determination for God. etc

> > > Namaste

> > >

> > > B.Sathyanarayan

> > >

> > > --------------------------------

> > > , Madan kaura <madan_kaura@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Shree Hari

> > > >

> > > > Ram Ram!

> > > >

> > > > Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye dhanyavad!

> > > >

> > > > Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book " Sar-Sangrah " in Hindi,

> > overview

> > > of Gita principles follow (References to relevant verses from

> > Gitaji

> > > have been added):

> > > >

> > > > 1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man considers the

> > > constantly changing world to be real and permanent and he expects

> > > continuous pleasure from it, which the world cannot provide. With

> > > this lack of understanding, man is thus puzzled, he does not know

> > > what to do and what not to do with the result that he is not able

> > to

> > > do his rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should not be

> > under

> > > the spell of worldly attachment (moha).

> > > > (Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73).

> > > >

> > > > 2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower of this

> > fact

> > > is Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By giving due

> > > importance to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his rightful

> > duty,

> > > one can get rid of worry and sorrow.

> > > > (Gitaji 2/ 11-30).

> > > >

> > > > 3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may vary due to

> > > situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the benefit of

> > > others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji: 2/31-38, 3-

> > 35

> > > and 18-47)

> > > >

> > > > 4. There are two ways to break the bondage of Karma:

> > > > - Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing your duty

> > > unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action. (Gitaji:

> 2-

> > > 47 and 4-18)

> > > > - Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)... (Gitaji:

> 4-

> > > 34/35)

> > > >

> > > > 5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or hate when

> > > favorable or unfavorable situations come his way, because those

> > > inflicted with joy and sorrow cannot rise above the dualities of

> > the

> > > world to experience the supreme bliss (Parama-ananda)...(Gita: 5/

> > 20-

> > > 22)

> > > >

> > > > 6. With whatever method one should attain equanimity (Samta)

> > in

> > > the Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita). Without

> attaining

> > > equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification of nature

> > > (Vikaras).

> > > > (Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72).

> > > >

> > > > 7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in

> > everything,

> > > He is the " Is-ness " in objects, people and actions. To accept

> this

> > > truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan).

> > > > (Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19).

> > > >

> > > > 8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment when he

> leaves

> > > the body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all times one

> > > should think of God only when performing one's duty. This is the

> > > only way to assure that at the last minute he will remember God

> > > since it is not certain when the last moment may come (Gitaji:

> 8/

> > 5-

> > > 7).

> > > >

> > > > 9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of which

> > Varna,

> > > Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/ 30-33).

> > > >

> > > > 10. Whatever being is endowed with glory, brilliance, beauty,

> > > prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation of a spark

> > of

> > > God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji: 10-41).

> > > >

> > > > 11. Think of this world as a projection of God only, each

> > human

> > > being can experience the vision of the cosmic form (Visvarupa

> > > darsan) of God.

> > > > (Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13).

> > > >

> > > > 12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind, intellect

> > > and ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-34, 12-8 and

> > 18-

> > > 65).

> > > >

> > > > 13. In this world there is only thing worth knowing which is

> > to

> > > know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16, 21).

> > > >

> > > > 14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of Samsara, one

> > > must become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas, Sattvic,

> > > Rajasic and Tamasic. This can be achieved through constant and

> > > consistent exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion (Gita: 14-

> > 20).

> > > >

> > > > 15. The basis or the root of this world is only God,

> believing

> > > this, the devotee should worship God with exclusive devotion

> (Gita

> > > 14-26. 15-19).

> > > >

> > > > 16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man whirls in 84

> > lacs

> > > of species and goes to hell and experiences pain and suffering.

> To

> > > liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it is a must

> > to

> > > get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19, 20).

> > > >

> > > > 17. Whatever noble action man undertakes, he should first

> > > remember God and recite His name and then start the action

> (Gitaji

> > > 17/24).

> > > >

> > > > 18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of Vedas is

> > > contained in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji and gist

> > of

> > > Gitaji is Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with exclusive

> > > devotion takes Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from all sins

> > > (Gita: 18/66).

> > > >

> > > > For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for the verses

> > > referenced above.

> > > >

> > > > Ram Ram

> > > >

> > > > Humble pranam

> > > > Madan Kaura

> > > >

> > > > sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > DEAR SADHAKAS,

> > > >

> > > > PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF BHAGAVAD

> GITA

> > > > TAUGHT BY LORD SRI KRISHNA.

> > > >

> > > > THANKING YOU,

> > > > JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNA

> > > > AMIT

> > > > INDIA.

> > > >

> > > > -------------------------

> > > > FROM THE MODERATOR

> > > >

> > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.

> > > >

> > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their

> doubts

> > > > related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which further

> > > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

> > > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures

> to

> > > > substantiate your response.

> > > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to

> the

> > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

> > > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

> respecting

> > > > sadhaka's time.

> > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other

> > > > organizations.

> > > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as

> phone

> > > > number, address etc.

> > > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular

> individual

> > > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be

> posted.

> > > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if

> > > content

> > > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.

> > > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

> youth,

> > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to

> > > Sanskrit

> > > > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > > bracketed

> > > > wherever possible.

> > > >

> > > > MODERATOR

> > > > Ram Ram

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 15, 2008

Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear Rameshji and all For ordinary worldly people the Karma theory of cause and effect invariably applies. But the case

of a sharanagata bhakta

(a devotee who has taken refuge in God, who is exclusively dependent on only God) it is very different, the normal Karma theory does not apply! God is the

maker of these rules, he can bypass these rules at His own will, out

his compassion and mercy for his true devotee. As Goswami Tulsidasji says in Sunder Kandha of Ram-charit-manas, Lord Rama says to Sugriva in reference to Vhibhishana: "sanmukha hoi jiva mohi jabhee, janma koti agha nasahi taba-hee" Meaning - The moment an embodied soul turns towards Me (i.e., takes My sharanagatih, depends on Me for everything), the

sins incurred by him through millions of lives are washed away instantly. In Gitaji too, in many places, in few of those verse, Lord Krishna declares: In context of Bhakti Yoga ï¿½ Verse 9-30: "Even

if a man of most sinful conduct worships Me with exclusive devotion, he

should be considered as a saint, for he has rightly resolved". Verse 9-31: "Quickly does such a man become righteous and attains lasting peace. Know that, for certain My devotee never perishes". Verse 27 & 28: "O son of Kunti,

whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer as oblation to

the sacred fire, whatever you bestow as a gift; whatever you do by way

of penance, offer it all to Me". "Thus

shall you be free from the bondage of actions yielding good and bad

results. With the mind firmly set in the yoga of renunciation and

liberated, you shall come to Meï¿½. Verse 18-66: "Abandoning the dependence

of all karmas (Dharmas), take refuge in Me alone, for I shall liberate you from all sins, - grieve not". In context of Jnana Yoga - Verse 4-36: "Even if you are the most sinful of all sinners, you will cross over all sins by the raft of knowledge". Verse 4-37: "As the blazing fire reduces the fuel to ashes, Arjuna, even so the fire of knowledge reduces all actions to ashes". In the context of Karma Yoga ( & Jnana Yoga) - Verse

4-19 "He

whose undertakings are free from desire, whose actions are all

burnt by the fire of wisdom, him, the wise call a man of learningï¿½. Ram Ram Humble pranam! Madan Kaura--------------------Hari Om

Re Saadhak Brother Raghuvanshiji's queries.

No for the first question -If we turn towards the God does He forgives or forget our past sins?

God does not change his Law of Karma for your past deeds. He changes

you , O Son of God! He does not forget your sins, He makes you forget

them.He does not forgive you, He makes you strong enough to disregard

the punishment arising out of your past deeds.

Yes to your question- does God help us in freeing us from sins! Yes ! Who else can help us?

This is how He helps you_

On one hand He drives you towards Equanimity, makes your Conscience

more vocal and activates " Daivi sampada"-divine properties in you

(read Gitaji 16:1 to 16:5) to help you strongly disregard any

consequences of your past deeds On other hand as soon as you turn

towards Him , He makes the Law of Karma inoperative for your all future

actions and karmas. In end you can Only become "F R E E"! What else you

can become when old karmas will keep giving you results and getting

extinguished and no new. Karmas will take place? FREE..

That is how the God and the Law of Karma operate. God does not look at your sins at all, He looks at you!

Jai Shree Krishna

N B Vyas------ , "sadhak_insight" <sadhak_insight wrote:>> Hari Om> > Re Saadhak Raghuvanshi's query on the subject. No it does not mean> that.you do the sins, ask for forgiveness and God forgets that. You> are right however in observing that God helps in getting you free.> > We must understand first the fact that we are children of God in the> truest sense and so is everybody else. Our strongest enemy is as good> a son of God as are we.Hence God has to sit in Equanimity and has to> be disinterested friend of ours.In his vision our good or bad conduct> has no relevance. His yardstick therefore is not our "sins" at all.> His yardstick is" your sense of mineness with Him".> > When you realise your real "mineness" , when you realise that you are> son of God you turn naturally towards Him. As soon as you turn towards> him , for you the Law of Karma instantly(as per Gitaji in "kshipram"> time-less than a second) ceases to operate. Hence the very reasons of> incurring sins get eliminated. > > When you consider your body or the world to be" mine" , you are> misidentifying yourself and hence you are the "doer" of your Karmas> maintaining an independent identity of your own. Naturally then you> must be responsible for deeds-because you are presuming "doership" by> you in your independent capacity. Law of Karma comes into play> therefore, because you must then be responsible for good or bad> deeds.If you consider yourself to be as good as God,or of the God or> for the God - then your Karmas will cease to be for you and hence they> will loose the capacity to bind you now or in future. They will become> "Akarmas" > > Therefore your past Karmas will now accelerate giving you results and> thereby extinguish themselves upon giving you the results. Old debts> will get repaid. No new debts are being incurred by you as explained> above. In the end what you can become except "FREE"!> > Your results for past deeds will come to you -certainly.Here now that> disinterested friend of ours, that Father of us, that God helps. He> now changes his character from being "disinterested friend" to a> loving father because of change in our character_ our "mineness"(Read> Gitaji 9:29). That father does not change his Law of Karma for our> past deeds. He helps us by granting "Daivi Sampada" (read Gitaji 16:1> to 16:5) to us so that we may happily and easily suffer the> consequences of our past deeds. He makes us so solid that any> happening in our worldly life ceases to impact us. He drives us to the> Equanimity. He awakens our conscience(viveka) and starts operating> full time through that conscience.Earlier He used to give sudden calls> through conscience but infrequently based on our respect levels.Now He> is operating full time. Now past deeds have no choice but to> accelerate giving you results. You go on a superfast track. No new> Karma are getting accumulated. You can only be "FREE" now.> > This how your queries get solved. God does not change his Law of> Karma, He changes you , O Son of God! He does not forgive you, He> grants you immunity to the punishment. He does not forget your past> deeds, He makes you forget that. He helps you certainly. Who else can> help you otherwise?> > Jai Shree Krishna> > N B Vyas> > -> Dear Khagah (fellow travellers in sky of truth)> > What is the essense of the Gita, and how it is different from rest of> studies?> > We all study in universities and become professionals/specialist in a> particular field and somehow painstakingly become rich and famous, but> yet not developed with compassion and knowledge and love; and this> conflict between Daksha (competent) and Enlightened (Shiva) begins. In> India, not difficult to find doctors, lawyers, judges, police and> politicians, government officers and clerks how are they self centered> and so much corrupt that normal people are afraid of them and avoid to> go or be in contact with them. The ego, money power, authority has> made these professionals or specialist fallen in catagory of> criminals. The under current started, and competence fall from grace> and power. It happened all the time in history.> > In SriMad Bhaagwat, this conflict is very beautifully explained, how> Daksha (competent, specialists) was short-sighted and full of ego, > power and skill and position and, he, opposed the Shiva (enlightened,> care free, defenseless, full with love, truth). Sati (wife of Shiva,> and daughter of Daksha) was in midst of these both, confused as to> whom she should choose without annoying anyone. Same situation of> Sati was arisen again with Arjun who was son and grand son of Bhishm,> and Drtrashtra (equivalent of Daksha) and on the other hand, has Sri> Krishna (equivalent of Shiva). Arjun as well as Sati had problem in> choosing the right side, and Sri Krishna (Shiva) and DratRashtra> (Daksha) fought the Mahabharata. > > Bhagwat Gita is not for making any one competent (daksha) but> Enlightened (shiva). This explains the risk of being short-sighted or> microscopic intellect, and rather it emphasizes on telescopic> intellect, or long-sighted detached or independent view of the truth. > > Bhagwat Gita is a conference of Krishna with Arjun, and DharatRashtra> (aided by Sanjaya). Bhagwat Gita begins after the following statement> of Arjun to Shri Krishna> > "kaparnya dosho pahatah sva bhaavh, prkshyami tvaam dharma sammodh> chetah, yat shreah sya nischitam bruhi me tat, shish es te ham shyadhi> maam tvam prapannam." > > Arjun was undoubtedly highly educated and taught by Dronacharya in the> fields of weaponary, and justice and administration. But in the war,> nothing worked and he was indecisive and shaking by fear of> consequences of his ensuing actions. Drona his teacher, stood against> him, and so were his grandfather, so many brothers and soldiers on the> both sides. He was in midst of cobweb of thoughts, and worded himself> as coward. Kaparnya dosho (sick of cowardice), pahath sva bhaavah> (whose self nature is fallen). > > Arjun faced a crisis of 'Sva bhaav' threatened by defenses of his own> prejudice, ego, relationship biases and attachment. His independent> nature (sva bhaav) was lost. Defenses or bhaav (different such as> valuation, prejudice) became counterproductive. In presence of bhaav,> the sva bhaav gets limited. Bhagwat Gita is based on words that are> technically precise because Arjun was not in a class room or> contemplation in retreat but in situation of a war. Sri Krishna taught> non-violence (action of non-reaction) and its applicability in a war> with DhratRashtra (blind/insensitive law and order: on which a nation> 'rashtra' rests 'dhrat'). > > In every day life, each one of us are in midst of a war, and Krishna> inside protect our swa bhaav from falling down. This sva bhaav and> boundary/defenses (or bhaav) are crucial. If defenses are high, the> self nature is at peril. > > This voice of the Gita must find place for discussion in tirth of Gita> talk.> Regards> K G > (Krishna Gopal) > > -> , "sadhak_insight"> sadhak_insight@ wrote:> >> > Dear All,> > > > > > The law of karma is a law and none is free from it until all sense > > of doership is relinquished, until there is no more sense of agency > > or "Iness." One is held to the consequences of one's accumulated > > karma until all karmas are exhausted. > > > > We thus need to make a distinction between accumulated karma and new > > karma. For him (or her) who sees one in all and all in one, who is > > completely unattached and free of desire, karma ceases to be. S/he > > accumulates no karma. But one can only get there if one exhaust all > > accumulated karma; before that one is not free from the consequences > > of karma.> > > > Such is my view but I stand corrected.> > > > Ramesh> > (Ramesh Gampat)> > > > -------------------------------> > > > Does it mean that you can do sins, pray and ask for forgiveness and > > God forgets. God helps you to wash away all your sins, if you follow > > Him ?> > > > Ravindra> > (Ravi Raghuwanshi)> > -------------------------------> > > > > > , "sadhak_insight" > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:> > >> > > Hari Om> > > > > > The Law of Karma would still operate , but it cease to impact you> > > and you shall become immune from the same. A typical storm of the> > > God 's kripa will start flowing around you and each and every> > > happenning in your life will aid to the extinguishment of your past> > > sins. Simultaneously because of your turning away from the world> > > and your facing towards the God , you shall naturally and> > > effortlessly stop incurring new sins altogether. Hence your life> > > shall take a fast U turn in a decisive manner and you shall stop> > > getting worried. Old Karmas will accelerate giving you results, you> > > shall be unmindful of the results, new Karmas will not sow any > > seeds> > > of Bondage and you shall become free in a superfast manner- free> > > from all sins, free from Bondage, free from The Law of Karma, free> > > from the chains of birth, death, birth ..., free from all sorrows,> > > all duties, all debts!> > > > > > The Law of Cause and Effect shall cease to be of any importance to> > > you for the past Karmas made by you, and the Law shall become> > > inoperative for you for the present and future Karmas because the> > > cause itself has undergone the change from bondage > > creating "karma"> > > to non bondage creating , non result giving "Akarma"(refer Geetaji> > > 4:17 to 4:20) . Suddenly and faster than your imagination you shall> > > find yourself to be the type of person referred in Geetaji 4:20 to> > > 4:23> > > > > > Jai Shree Krishna> > > > > > N B Vyas> > > -> > -> > > > > > The laws of cause and effect operate only so long as we have the> > > sense of doership. Once we surrender to God, then whatever we> > > do is God's work only and he takes care of us - "Jo jako sharano> > > liyo, tako taki laaj".> > > > > > Jai Sri Krsna> > > > > > Rajendra> > > (Rajendra Bohra)> > > > > > > > > , "sadhak_insight"> > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Madan,> > > >> > > > Namaskar!> > > >> > > > Many thanks for this interesting summary Much, much appreciated.> > > I> > > > have one little query. I am a firm believer in Karma but became > > a> > > > little confused with these words "God frees him from all sins."> > > > What of the laws of cause and effect then? Do they cease to> > > operate?> > > >> > > > Dhanyavad.> > > > Ramesh Gampat> > > > --------------------------------> > > >> > > > Bhagwat Gita is a spark and is enough to illumination. Term> > > essence> > > > is for gross to juice but Bhagwat Gita is essense every where.> > > Just> > > > half sentense is enough for knowing the whole, and it applies to> > > > every person differently. A small piece is like a seed that grows> > > > into tree. Do it with full intellect and freedom of imagination,> > > and> > > > find truth yourself.> > > > regards> > > > K G> > > > (Krishna Gopal)> > > > --------------------------------> > -> > > > Sir,> > > > The last chapter of Gita says." this is a "guhya' secret> > > knowledge.> > > > It should be taught or discussed with intelligent persons only"> > > Why> > > > then is it being dragged to the streets and the gutters. Its > > value> > > > is lost in the hands of "Mudhas" It is being repeated for over> > > five> > > > millenniums and today the world is in no better position !!!> > > > This hair splitting of words and grammar will lead us no where. "> > > > Nahi Nahi Rakshati drukkan karane " [ Said Sri. Shankara charya ]> > > > So, dwell deep into the fathomless depths of Yoga and come out> > > > radiant with all doubts vanished. Yes, that light will shed on> > > > others as that of Buddha - Shankara and their ilk and silently> > > > enlighten others.> > > >> > > > Ramchander homma> > > > --------------------------------> > > > Dear Sadhaks,> > > >> > > > Basic priciples of Geetha. One should understand that he is on> > > earth> > > > to do the Karma (duties) entrusted to him. While doing such > > Karmas> > > > one should be aware of Dharmas (that which is to be upheld and> > > > preserved, that which is sanctioned by the srciptures) to be> > > > followed. One should do such karmas surrendering completely the> > > > fruit of actions (Karma phala) saying Narayanayethi Samarpayame > > (I> > > > surrender all to that Supreme One Narayana). The three main paths> > > > prescribed said by Bhagavan (God) by way of Path of Action (Karma> > > > Marg), Path of Knowledge (Dhyna Marg) and Path of Devotion> > > (Bhakthi> > > > Marg). By following any one of these pths (marg) one is sure to> > > > attain divinity.> > > >> > > > Bagavath Geetha starts with ,"itthi Upanashidshu". Means the> > > Geetha> > > > is nectar of Upanishads. Upanishads are the nectar from the > > Vedas.> > > > Vedas are from Bhagavan Vishnu. Bagavan Krishna says to Arjuna,"> > > I> > > > have given this message (upadesh) to Sun God". Arjuna perplexed> > > asks> > > > Krishna, " YOU are just like me born and brought up, then how > > come> > > > YOU told to Sun God at the time of creation". Krishna says, " I> > > know> > > > the past, present and future and I know about MYSELF, but you > > know> > > > only about this birth, and that is the differance between you and> > > > ME".> > > >> > > > The Bhagavath Geetha, since it comes from Bagavan Himself.> > > > Krishna says, human birth is very precious and it is only to be> > > used> > > > to attain divinity. Bhagavan says that one should not get > > attached> > > > to worldly matters as it gives births and deaths. One should> > > > surrender all his actions (karmas) as stated in the three> > > > paths. "By this way one can reach ME", Bhagavan says.> > > > Bhagavan says, "Kama yesha, krodha yesha====". Means that from> > > > unfulfilled desires, comes anger, and anger brings jealousy- so> > > > desire is the root of all evils.> > > >> > > > Dear Sadhaks, make all evils into virtues, by having desire for> > > only> > > > God (desire to attain only HIM). Let all anger, jealousy, greed > > be> > > > directed towards God. Greed of spending more and more time with> > > > God, Jealous of listening to saint's stories and their love and> > > > determination for God. etc> > > > Namaste> > > >> > > > B.Sathyanarayan> > > >> > > > --------------------------------> > > > , Madan kaura <madan_kaura@>> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Shree Hari> > > > >> > > > > Ram Ram!> > > > >> > > > > Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye dhanyavad!> > > > >> > > > > Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book "Sar-Sangrah" in Hindi,> > > overview> > > > of Gita principles follow (References to relevant verses from> > > Gitaji> > > > have been added):> > > > >> > > > > 1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man considers the> > > > constantly changing world to be real and permanent and he expects> > > > continuous pleasure from it, which the world cannot provide. With> > > > this lack of understanding, man is thus puzzled, he does not know> > > > what to do and what not to do with the result that he is not able> > > to> > > > do his rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should not be> > > under> > > > the spell of worldly attachment (moha).> > > > > (Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73).> > > > >> > > > > 2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower of this> > > fact> > > > is Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By giving due> > > > importance to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his rightful> > > duty,> > > > one can get rid of worry and sorrow.> > > > > (Gitaji 2/ 11-30).> > > > >> > > > > 3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may vary due to> > > > situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the benefit of> > > > others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji: 2/31-38, 3-> > > 35> > > > and 18-47)> > > > >> > > > > 4. There are two ways to break the bondage of Karma:> > > > > - Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing your duty> > > > unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action. (Gitaji: > > 2-> > > > 47 and 4-18)> > > > > - Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)... (Gitaji: > > 4-> > > > 34/35)> > > > >> > > > > 5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or hate when> > > > favorable or unfavorable situations come his way, because those> > > > inflicted with joy and sorrow cannot rise above the dualities of> > > the> > > > world to experience the supreme bliss (Parama-ananda)...(Gita: 5/> > > 20-> > > > 22)> > > > >> > > > > 6. With whatever method one should attain equanimity (Samta)> > > in> > > > the Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita). Without > > attaining> > > > equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification of nature> > > > (Vikaras).> > > > > (Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72).> > > > >> > > > > 7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in> > > everything,> > > > He is the "Is-ness" in objects, people and actions. To accept > > this> > > > truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan).> > > > > (Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19).> > > > >> > > > > 8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment when he > > leaves> > > > the body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all times one> > > > should think of God only when performing one's duty. This is the> > > > only way to assure that at the last minute he will remember God> > > > since it is not certain when the last moment may come (Gitaji: > > 8/> > > 5-> > > > 7).> > > > >> > > > > 9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of which> > > Varna,> > > > Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/ 30-33).> > > > >> > > > > 10. Whatever being is endowed with glory, brilliance, beauty,> > > > prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation of a spark> > > of> > > > God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji: 10-41).> > > > >> > > > > 11. Think of this world as a projection of God only, each> > > human> > > > being can experience the vision of the cosmic form (Visvarupa> > > > darsan) of God.> > > > > (Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13).> > > > >> > > > > 12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind, intellect> > > > and ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-34, 12-8 and> > > 18-> > > > 65).> > > > >> > > > > 13. In this world there is only thing worth knowing which is> > > to> > > > know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16, 21).> > > > >> > > > > 14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of Samsara, one> > > > must become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas, Sattvic,> > > > Rajasic and Tamasic. This can be achieved through constant and> > > > consistent exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion (Gita: 14-> > > 20).> > > > >> > > > > 15. The basis or the root of this world is only God, > > believing> > > > this, the devotee should worship God with exclusive devotion > > (Gita> > > > 14-26. 15-19).> > > > >> > > > > 16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man whirls in 84> > > lacs> > > > of species and goes to hell and experiences pain and suffering. > > To> > > > liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it is a must> > > to> > > > get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19, 20).> > > > >> > > > > 17. Whatever noble action man undertakes, he should first> > > > remember God and recite His name and then start the action > > (Gitaji> > > > 17/24).> > > > >> > > > > 18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of Vedas is> > > > contained in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji and gist> > > of> > > > Gitaji is Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with exclusive> > > > devotion takes Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from all sins> > > > (Gita: 18/66).> > > > >> > > > > For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for the verses> > > > referenced above.> > > > >> > > > > Ram Ram> > > > >> > > > > Humble pranam> > > > > Madan Kaura> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > DEAR SADHAKAS,> > > > >> > > > > PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF BHAGAVAD > > GITA> > > > > TAUGHT BY LORD SRI KRISHNA.> > > > >> > > > > THANKING YOU,> > > > > JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNA> > > > > AMIT> > > > > INDIA.> > > > >> > > > > -------------------------> > > > > FROM THE MODERATOR> > > > >> > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions.> > > > >> > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:> > > > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their > > doubts> > > > > related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which further> > > > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.> > > > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures > > to> > > > > substantiate your response.> > > > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to > > the> > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas> > > > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, > > respecting> > > > > sadhaka's time.> > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.> > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other> > > > > organizations.> > > > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as > > phone> > > > > number, address etc.> > > > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular > > individual> > > > > since the message is going to the entire group.> > > > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be > > posted.> > > > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if> > > > content> > > > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group.> > > > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, > > youth,> > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to> > > > Sanskrit> > > > > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit> > > > bracketed> > > > > wherever possible.> > > > >> > > > > MODERATOR> > > > > Ram Ram> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

June 17, 2008

What Madanji has written is correct but with a difference. God has

decided on certain rules to run the universe (like king decides on

rules to run his kingdom). God does not implement these rules.

Rules are implemented by his nature (like in case of king, the rules

are implemented by the servants nominated by him for the purpose).

No one (not even God himself) has the power to change these rules.

God's mercy showers on all without any differentiation (this is like

the sunlight falls on all objects equally). All people do not

experience the mercy equally (like a black object and white object

do not reflect the sunlight equally).

Further, cause and effect is applicable to the body and not

to 'self'. That is why we see that even the body of great saints

also suffers. This suffering is limited to the body only. As the

identity of the saint has changed from the body to 'self', he does

not suffer, but to ordinary people like us it looks that he is

suffering.

The real interpretation of the word " Sanmukh " , " Worships me with

exclusive devotion " , " my devotee " etc. is " Sakshatkar " and not

changing life towards God. After God realisation, the identity of

the person changes from body to self. To elaborate, during a dream a

person identifies himself as the dream body and enjoys or suffers

from the happenings in the dream. But as soon as he wakes up, his

identity changes and the dream has no more any affect on him.

A.H.Dalmia

Does god remove the sins?

It is answered in identification of the sinner. Sin is a thought of

wrong doing, by the ego or power or in fits of anger. It is like a

car accident due to its faulty brakes or bad road condition and so

on. Is it the fault of the car? Should the car be hanged to death

for the sin it committed by fault in brake or bad road ? The God is

owner of all cars and defects in cars is removed by the God by

correction and not punishing. The courts are not intelligent and

legal apartus is not able to make it effective in justice. More are

courts, more are criminals. They are not reform conscious and

therefore the sinner tries to escape from it, and go into politics

to add on their protection. But turning to god, any sinner is never

refused and he or she gets strength to overcome his/her fault.

Balmiki, Angulimaal, Ashoka were criminals but they after in contact

with Narada, and Buddha got cleaned by self purification.

regards

K G

(Krishna Gopal)

--------------------------------

1. Every human being is born with the discretionary powers to act in

the way he wishes, with the sixth sense which warns him against

commiting sins.

2. When you are going to commit an " AKRUTHYA " or knowingly a wrong

act, the soul within you warns you not to do it as it would be

a " sin " . This voice comes from within you and that is called " ANTHA:

KARANAM " . This is the voice of God within every individual existing

since birth, and active when they grow up.

3. The character is also moulded by imbibing it from the

environments and the advices from the parents and teachers to this

effect.

4. If one ignores this INNER VOICE of warning and deliberately

continues to commit the sins, in course of time the inner voice dies

out and the criminal tendencies grow to commit more sins.

5. If someone commits a wrong unknowingly and repents, GOD would

forgive him. But commissio n of deliberate acts knowing fully well

the consequences of the evil act, the individual has to suffer the

consequences either the same birth or in the next birth as per Hindu

philosophy.

kesava pillai

-

Jai Ram Ji Ki!!!!!!

It is true that for sharnaagata bhakta (devotee who has taken refuge

in God), theory of karma is very different. I wonder how many

people you have met in your life who are qualified to be sharnagat

bhakta. My point is it is rare to meet a sharnaagata bhakta if if

not impossible. Therfore, the theory of karma will apply to all

except those few souls.

Sudhir Kalra

--

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear Rameshji and all For ordinary

worldly

> people the Karma theory of cause and effect invariably applies.

But the

> case of a sharanagata bhakta (a devotee who has taken refuge in

God, who

> is exclusively dependent on only God) it is very different, the

normal

> Karma theory does not apply! God is the maker of these rules, he

can

> bypass these rules at His own will, out his compassion and mercy

for his

> true devotee. As Goswami Tulsidasji says in Sunder Kandha of

> Ram-charit-manas, Lord Rama says to Sugriva in reference to

Vhibhishana:

> " sanmukha hoi jiva mohi jabhee, janma koti agha nasahi taba-hee "

> Meaning - The moment an embodied soul turns towards Me (i.e.,

takes My

> sharanagatih, depends on Me for everything), the sins incurred by

him

> through millions of lives are washed away instantly. In Gitaji

too, in

> many places, in few of those verse, Lord Krishna declares: In

context

> of Bhakti Yoga ï¿½ Verse 9-30: " Even if a man of most sinful

conduct

> worships Me with exclusive devotion, he should be considered as a

saint,

> for he has rightly resolved " . Verse 9-31: " Quickly does such a man

> become righteous and attains lasting peace. Know that, for certain

My

> devotee never perishes " . Verse 27 & 28: " O son of Kunti, whatever

you

> do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer as oblation to the sacred

fire,

> whatever you bestow as a gift; whatever you do by way of penance,

offer

> it all to Me " . " Thus shall you be free from the bondage of actions

> yielding good and bad results. With the mind firmly set in the

yoga of

> renunciation and liberated, you shall come to Meï¿½. Verse 18-66:

> " Abandoning the dependence of all karmas (Dharmas), take refuge in

Me

> alone, for I shall liberate you from all sins, - grieve not " . In

> context of Jnana Yoga - Verse 4-36: " Even if you are the most

sinful of

> all sinners, you will cross over all sins by the raft of

knowledge " .

> Verse 4-37: " As the blazing fire reduces the fuel to ashes,

Arjuna, even

> so the fire of knowledge reduces all actions to ashes " . In the

context

> of Karma Yoga ( & Jnana Yoga) - Verse 4-19 " He whose undertakings

are

> free from desire, whose actions are all burnt by the fire of

wisdom,

> him, the wise call a man of learningï¿½. Ram Ram Humble

> pranam! Madan Kaura

>

> -

-----\

> --------------------------

> Hari Om

>

> Re Saadhak Brother Raghuvanshiji's queries.

>

> No for the first question -If we turn towards the God does He

forgives

> or forget our past sins?

>

> God does not change his Law of Karma for your past deeds. He

changes

> you , O Son of God! He does not forget your sins, He makes you

forget

> them.He does not forgive you, He makes you strong enough to

disregard

> the punishment arising out of your past deeds.

>

> Yes to your question- does God help us in freeing us from sins!

Yes !

> Who else can help us?

> This is how He helps you_

> On one hand He drives you towards Equanimity, makes your

Conscience

> more vocal and activates " Daivi sampada " -divine properties in you

> (read Gitaji 16:1 to 16:5) to help you strongly disregard any

> consequences of your past deeds On other hand as soon as you turn

> towards Him , He makes the Law of Karma inoperative for your all

future

> actions and karmas. In end you can Only become " F R E E " ! What

else you

> can become when old karmas will keep giving you results and getting

> extinguished and no new. Karmas will take place? FREE..

>

> That is how the God and the Law of Karma operate. God does not

look at

> your sins at all, He looks at you!

>

> Jai Shree Krishna

>

> N B Vyas

>

> -

-----\

> -

-----\

> ------

> , " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hari Om

> >

> > Re Saadhak Raghuvanshi's query on the subject. No it does not

mean

> > that.you do the sins, ask for forgiveness and God forgets that.

You

> > are right however in observing that God helps in getting you

free.

> >

> > We must understand first the fact that we are children of God in

the

> > truest sense and so is everybody else. Our strongest enemy is as

good

> > a son of God as are we.Hence God has to sit in Equanimity and

has to

> > be disinterested friend of ours.In his vision our good or bad

conduct

> > has no relevance. His yardstick therefore is not our " sins " at

all.

> > His yardstick is " your sense of mineness with Him " .

> >

> > When you realise your real " mineness " , when you realise that

you are

> > son of God you turn naturally towards Him. As soon as you turn

towards

> > him , for you the Law of Karma instantly(as per Gitaji

in " kshipram "

> > time-less than a second) ceases to operate. Hence the very

reasons of

> > incurring sins get eliminated.

> >

> > When you consider your body or the world to be " mine " , you are

> > misidentifying yourself and hence you are the " doer " of your

Karmas

> > maintaining an independent identity of your own. Naturally then

you

> > must be responsible for deeds-because you are

presuming " doership " by

> > you in your independent capacity. Law of Karma comes into play

> > therefore, because you must then be responsible for good or bad

> > deeds.If you consider yourself to be as good as God,or of the

God or

> > for the God - then your Karmas will cease to be for you and

hence they

> > will loose the capacity to bind you now or in future. They will

become

> > " Akarmas "

> >

> > Therefore your past Karmas will now accelerate giving you

results and

> > thereby extinguish themselves upon giving you the results. Old

debts

> > will get repaid. No new debts are being incurred by you as

explained

> > above. In the end what you can become except " FREE " !

> >

> > Your results for past deeds will come to you -certainly.Here

now that

> > disinterested friend of ours, that Father of us, that God helps.

He

> > now changes his character from being " disinterested friend " to a

> > loving father because of change in our character_

our " mineness " (Read

> > Gitaji 9:29). That father does not change his Law of Karma for

our

> > past deeds. He helps us by granting " Daivi Sampada " (read Gitaji

16:1

> > to 16:5) to us so that we may happily and easily suffer the

> > consequences of our past deeds. He makes us so solid that any

> > happening in our worldly life ceases to impact us. He drives us

to the

> > Equanimity. He awakens our conscience(viveka) and starts

operating

> > full time through that conscience.Earlier He used to give sudden

calls

> > through conscience but infrequently based on our respect

levels.Now He

> > is operating full time. Now past deeds have no choice but to

> > accelerate giving you results. You go on a superfast track. No

new

> > Karma are getting accumulated. You can only be " FREE " now.

> >

> > This how your queries get solved. God does not change his Law of

> > Karma, He changes you , O Son of God! He does not forgive you, He

> > grants you immunity to the punishment. He does not forget your

past

> > deeds, He makes you forget that. He helps you certainly. Who

else can

> > help you otherwise?

> >

> > Jai Shree Krishna

> >

> > N B Vyas

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> > Dear Khagah (fellow travellers in sky of truth)

> >

> > What is the essense of the Gita, and how it is different from

rest of

> > studies?

> >

> > We all study in universities and become professionals/specialist

in a

> > particular field and somehow painstakingly become rich and

famous, but

> > yet not developed with compassion and knowledge and love; and

this

> > conflict between Daksha (competent) and Enlightened (Shiva)

begins. In

> > India, not difficult to find doctors, lawyers, judges, police and

> > politicians, government officers and clerks how are they self

centered

> > and so much corrupt that normal people are afraid of them and

avoid to

> > go or be in contact with them. The ego, money power, authority

has

> > made these professionals or specialist fallen in catagory of

> > criminals. The under current started, and competence fall from

grace

> > and power. It happened all the time in history.

> >

> > In SriMad Bhaagwat, this conflict is very beautifully explained,

how

> > Daksha (competent, specialists) was short-sighted and full of

ego,

> > power and skill and position and, he, opposed the Shiva

(enlightened,

> > care free, defenseless, full with love, truth). Sati (wife of

Shiva,

> > and daughter of Daksha) was in midst of these both, confused as

to

> > whom she should choose without annoying anyone. Same situation

of

> > Sati was arisen again with Arjun who was son and grand son of

Bhishm,

> > and Drtrashtra (equivalent of Daksha) and on the other hand,

has Sri

> > Krishna (equivalent of Shiva). Arjun as well as Sati had problem

in

> > choosing the right side, and Sri Krishna (Shiva) and DratRashtra

> > (Daksha) fought the Mahabharata.

> >

> > Bhagwat Gita is not for making any one competent (daksha) but

> > Enlightened (shiva). This explains the risk of being short-

sighted or

> > microscopic intellect, and rather it emphasizes on telescopic

> > intellect, or long-sighted detached or independent view of the

truth.

> >

> > Bhagwat Gita is a conference of Krishna with Arjun, and

DharatRashtra

> > (aided by Sanjaya). Bhagwat Gita begins after the following

statement

> > of Arjun to Shri Krishna

> >

> > " kaparnya dosho pahatah sva bhaavh, prkshyami tvaam dharma

sammodh

> > chetah, yat shreah sya nischitam bruhi me tat, shish es te ham

shyadhi

> > maam tvam prapannam. "

> >

> > Arjun was undoubtedly highly educated and taught by Dronacharya

in the

> > fields of weaponary, and justice and administration. But in the

war,

> > nothing worked and he was indecisive and shaking by fear of

> > consequences of his ensuing actions. Drona his teacher, stood

against

> > him, and so were his grandfather, so many brothers and soldiers

on the

> > both sides. He was in midst of cobweb of thoughts, and worded

himself

> > as coward. Kaparnya dosho (sick of cowardice), pahath sva bhaavah

> > (whose self nature is fallen).

> >

> > Arjun faced a crisis of 'Sva bhaav' threatened by defenses of

his own

> > prejudice, ego, relationship biases and attachment. His

independent

> > nature (sva bhaav) was lost. Defenses or bhaav (different such as

> > valuation, prejudice) became counterproductive. In presence of

bhaav,

> > the sva bhaav gets limited. Bhagwat Gita is based on words that

are

> > technically precise because Arjun was not in a class room or

> > contemplation in retreat but in situation of a war. Sri Krishna

taught

> > non-violence (action of non-reaction) and its applicability in a

war

> > with DhratRashtra (blind/insensitive law and order: on which a

nation

> > 'rashtra' rests 'dhrat').

> >

> > In every day life, each one of us are in midst of a war, and

Krishna

> > inside protect our swa bhaav from falling down. This sva bhaav

and

> > boundary/defenses (or bhaav) are crucial. If defenses are high,

the

> > self nature is at peril.

> >

> > This voice of the Gita must find place for discussion in tirth

of Gita

> > talk.

> > Regards

> > K G

> > (Krishna Gopal)

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > sadhak_insight@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > The law of karma is a law and none is free from it until all

sense

> > > of doership is relinquished, until there is no more sense of

agency

> > > or " Iness. " One is held to the consequences of one's

accumulated

> > > karma until all karmas are exhausted.

> > >

> > > We thus need to make a distinction between accumulated karma

and new

> > > karma. For him (or her) who sees one in all and all in one,

who is

> > > completely unattached and free of desire, karma ceases to be.

S/he

> > > accumulates no karma. But one can only get there if one

exhaust all

> > > accumulated karma; before that one is not free from the

consequences

> > > of karma.

> > >

> > > Such is my view but I stand corrected.

> > >

> > > Ramesh

> > > (Ramesh Gampat)

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

-

> > >

> > > Does it mean that you can do sins, pray and ask for

forgiveness and

> > > God forgets. God helps you to wash away all your sins, if you

follow

> > > Him ?

> > >

> > > Ravindra

> > > (Ravi Raghuwanshi)

> > > ------------------------------

-

> > >

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hari Om

> > > >

> > > > The Law of Karma would still operate , but it cease to

impact you

> > > > and you shall become immune from the same. A typical storm

of the

> > > > God 's kripa will start flowing around you and each and every

> > > > happenning in your life will aid to the extinguishment of

your

> past

> > > > sins. Simultaneously because of your turning away from the

world

> > > > and your facing towards the God , you shall naturally and

> > > > effortlessly stop incurring new sins altogether. Hence your

life

> > > > shall take a fast U turn in a decisive manner and you shall

stop

> > > > getting worried. Old Karmas will accelerate giving you

results,

> you

> > > > shall be unmindful of the results, new Karmas will not sow

any

> > > seeds

> > > > of Bondage and you shall become free in a superfast manner-

free

> > > > from all sins, free from Bondage, free from The Law of

Karma, free

> > > > from the chains of birth, death, birth ..., free from all

sorrows,

> > > > all duties, all debts!

> > > >

> > > > The Law of Cause and Effect shall cease to be of any

importance to

> > > > you for the past Karmas made by you, and the Law shall become

> > > > inoperative for you for the present and future Karmas

because the

> > > > cause itself has undergone the change from bondage

> > > creating " karma "

> > > > to non bondage creating , non result giving " Akarma " (refer

Geetaji

> > > > 4:17 to 4:20) . Suddenly and faster than your imagination you

> shall

> > > > find yourself to be the type of person referred in Geetaji

4:20 to

> > > > 4:23

> > > >

> > > > Jai Shree Krishna

> > > >

> > > > N B Vyas

> > > >

> -

> > > -

> > > >

> > > > The laws of cause and effect operate only so long as we have

the

> > > > sense of doership. Once we surrender to God, then whatever we

> > > > do is God's work only and he takes care of us - " Jo jako

sharano

> > > > liyo, tako taki laaj " .

> > > >

> > > > Jai Sri Krsna

> > > >

> > > > Rajendra

> > > > (Rajendra Bohra)

> > > > ----------------------------

-----

> > > >

> > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Madan,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > >

> > > > > Many thanks for this interesting summary Much, much

> appreciated.

> > > > I

> > > > > have one little query. I am a firm believer in Karma but

became

> > > a

> > > > > little confused with these words " God frees him from all

sins. "

> > > > > What of the laws of cause and effect then? Do they cease

to

> > > > operate?

> > > > >

> > > > > Dhanyavad.

> > > > > Ramesh Gampat

> > > > >

> --------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > Bhagwat Gita is a spark and is enough to illumination. Term

> > > > essence

> > > > > is for gross to juice but Bhagwat Gita is essense every

where.

> > > > Just

> > > > > half sentense is enough for knowing the whole, and it

applies to

> > > > > every person differently. A small piece is like a seed that

> grows

> > > > > into tree. Do it with full intellect and freedom of

imagination,

> > > > and

> > > > > find truth yourself.

> > > > > regards

> > > > > K G

> > > > > (Krishna Gopal)

> > > > >

> --------------------------------

> > > -

> > > > > Sir,

> > > > > The last chapter of Gita says. " this is a " guhya' secret

> > > > knowledge.

> > > > > It should be taught or discussed with intelligent persons

only "

> > > > Why

> > > > > then is it being dragged to the streets and the gutters.

Its

> > > value

> > > > > is lost in the hands of " Mudhas " It is being repeated for

over

> > > > five

> > > > > millenniums and today the world is in no better

position !!!

> > > > > This hair splitting of words and grammar will lead us no

where.

> "

> > > > > Nahi Nahi Rakshati drukkan karane " [ Said Sri. Shankara

charya

> ]

> > > > > So, dwell deep into the fathomless depths of Yoga and

come out

> > > > > radiant with all doubts vanished. Yes, that light will

shed on

> > > > > others as that of Buddha - Shankara and their ilk and

silently

> > > > > enlighten others.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ramchander homma

> > > > >

> --------------------------------

> > > > > Dear Sadhaks,

> > > > >

> > > > > Basic priciples of Geetha. One should understand that he

is on

> > > > earth

> > > > > to do the Karma (duties) entrusted to him. While doing such

> > > Karmas

> > > > > one should be aware of Dharmas (that which is to be upheld

and

> > > > > preserved, that which is sanctioned by the srciptures) to

be

> > > > > followed. One should do such karmas surrendering

completely the

> > > > > fruit of actions (Karma phala) saying Narayanayethi

Samarpayame

> > > (I

> > > > > surrender all to that Supreme One Narayana). The three main

> paths

> > > > > prescribed said by Bhagavan (God) by way of Path of Action

> (Karma

> > > > > Marg), Path of Knowledge (Dhyna Marg) and Path of Devotion

> > > > (Bhakthi

> > > > > Marg). By following any one of these pths (marg) one is

sure to

> > > > > attain divinity.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bagavath Geetha starts with , " itthi Upanashidshu " . Means

the

> > > > Geetha

> > > > > is nectar of Upanishads. Upanishads are the nectar from the

> > > Vedas.

> > > > > Vedas are from Bhagavan Vishnu. Bagavan Krishna says to

> Arjuna, "

> > > > I

> > > > > have given this message (upadesh) to Sun God " . Arjuna

perplexed

> > > > asks

> > > > > Krishna, " YOU are just like me born and brought up, then

how

> > > come

> > > > > YOU told to Sun God at the time of creation " . Krishna

says, " I

> > > > know

> > > > > the past, present and future and I know about MYSELF, but

you

> > > know

> > > > > only about this birth, and that is the differance between

you

> and

> > > > > ME " .

> > > > >

> > > > > The Bhagavath Geetha, since it comes from Bagavan Himself.

> > > > > Krishna says, human birth is very precious and it is only

to be

> > > > used

> > > > > to attain divinity. Bhagavan says that one should not get

> > > attached

> > > > > to worldly matters as it gives births and deaths. One

should

> > > > > surrender all his actions (karmas) as stated in the three

> > > > > paths. " By this way one can reach ME " , Bhagavan says.

> > > > > Bhagavan says, " Kama yesha, krodha yesha==== " . Means that

from

> > > > > unfulfilled desires, comes anger, and anger brings

jealousy- so

> > > > > desire is the root of all evils.

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Sadhaks, make all evils into virtues, by having

desire for

> > > > only

> > > > > God (desire to attain only HIM). Let all anger, jealousy,

greed

> > > be

> > > > > directed towards God. Greed of spending more and more

time with

> > > > > God, Jealous of listening to saint's stories and their

love and

> > > > > determination for God. etc

> > > > > Namaste

> > > > >

> > > > > B.Sathyanarayan

> > > > >

> --------------------------------

> > > > > , Madan kaura

<madan_kaura@>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Shree Hari

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ram Ram!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye dhanyavad!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book " Sar-Sangrah " in Hindi,

> > > > overview

> > > > > of Gita principles follow (References to relevant verses

from

> > > > Gitaji

> > > > > have been added):

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man considers

the

> > > > > constantly changing world to be real and permanent and he

> expects

> > > > > continuous pleasure from it, which the world cannot

provide.

> With

> > > > > this lack of understanding, man is thus puzzled, he does

not

> know

> > > > > what to do and what not to do with the result that he is

not

> able

> > > > to

> > > > > do his rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should not

be

> > > > under

> > > > > the spell of worldly attachment (moha).

> > > > > > (Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower of

this

> > > > fact

> > > > > is Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By giving

due

> > > > > importance to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his

rightful

> > > > duty,

> > > > > one can get rid of worry and sorrow.

> > > > > > (Gitaji 2/ 11-30).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may vary

due to

> > > > > situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the

benefit of

> > > > > others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji: 2/31-

38,

> 3-

> > > > 35

> > > > > and 18-47)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4. There are two ways to break the bondage of Karma:

> > > > > > - Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing

your

> duty

> > > > > unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action.

(Gitaji:

> > > 2-

> > > > > 47 and 4-18)

> > > > > > - Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)...

(Gitaji:

> > > 4-

> > > > > 34/35)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or hate

when

> > > > > favorable or unfavorable situations come his way, because

those

> > > > > inflicted with joy and sorrow cannot rise above the

dualities of

> > > > the

> > > > > world to experience the supreme bliss (Parama-ananda)...

(Gita:

> 5/

> > > > 20-

> > > > > 22)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 6. With whatever method one should attain equanimity

(Samta)

> > > > in

> > > > > the Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita). Without

> > > attaining

> > > > > equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification of

nature

> > > > > (Vikaras).

> > > > > > (Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in

> > > > everything,

> > > > > He is the " Is-ness " in objects, people and actions. To

accept

> > > this

> > > > > truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan).

> > > > > > (Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment when he

> > > leaves

> > > > > the body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all

times one

> > > > > should think of God only when performing one's duty. This

is the

> > > > > only way to assure that at the last minute he will

remember God

> > > > > since it is not certain when the last moment may come

(Gitaji:

> > > 8/

> > > > 5-

> > > > > 7).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of

which

> > > > Varna,

> > > > > Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/ 30-

33).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 10. Whatever being is endowed with glory, brilliance,

> beauty,

> > > > > prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation of a

> spark

> > > > of

> > > > > God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji: 10-

41).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 11. Think of this world as a projection of God only,

each

> > > > human

> > > > > being can experience the vision of the cosmic form

(Visvarupa

> > > > > darsan) of God.

> > > > > > (Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind,

> intellect

> > > > > and ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-34,

12-8

> and

> > > > 18-

> > > > > 65).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 13. In this world there is only thing worth knowing

which

> is

> > > > to

> > > > > know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16, 21).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of

Samsara,

> one

> > > > > must become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas,

Sattvic,

> > > > > Rajasic and Tamasic. This can be achieved through constant

and

> > > > > consistent exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion

(Gita: 14-

> > > > 20).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 15. The basis or the root of this world is only God,

> > > believing

> > > > > this, the devotee should worship God with exclusive

devotion

> > > (Gita

> > > > > 14-26. 15-19).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man whirls

in 84

> > > > lacs

> > > > > of species and goes to hell and experiences pain and

suffering.

> > > To

> > > > > liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it is

a must

> > > > to

> > > > > get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19, 20).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 17. Whatever noble action man undertakes, he should

first

> > > > > remember God and recite His name and then start the action

> > > (Gitaji

> > > > > 17/24).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of

Vedas is

> > > > > contained in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji

and gist

> > > > of

> > > > > Gitaji is Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with

exclusive

> > > > > devotion takes Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from all

sins

> > > > > (Gita: 18/66).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for the

> verses

> > > > > referenced above.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Humble pranam

> > > > > > Madan Kaura

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > DEAR SADHAKAS,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF

BHAGAVAD

> > > GITA

> > > > > > TAUGHT BY LORD SRI KRISHNA.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > THANKING YOU,

> > > > > > JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNA

> > > > > > AMIT

> > > > > > INDIA.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------

-

> > > > > > FROM THE MODERATOR

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk

discussions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > > > > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their

> > > doubts

> > > > > > related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which

further

> > > > > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted.

> > > > > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other

scriptures

> > > to

> > > > > > substantiate your response.

> > > > > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs

etc. to

> > > the

> > > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita

> shlokas

> > > > > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

> > > respecting

> > > > > > sadhaka's time.

> > > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only.

> > > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or

other

> > > > > > organizations.

> > > > > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such

as

> > > phone

> > > > > > number, address etc.

> > > > > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular

> > > individual

> > > > > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > > > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be

> > > posted.

> > > > > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting,

if

> > > > > content

> > > > > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the

group.

> > > > > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices,

> > > youth,

> > > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use

to

> > > > > Sanskrit

> > > > > > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit

> > > > > bracketed

> > > > > > wherever possible.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > MODERATOR

> > > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 20, 2008

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Pujya Swamiji has summarized Gitaji principles in very simple, short slogans for

spiritual practices. A couple are being shared here:

Spiritual Practice # 1

In this entire Universe, only God (Supreme Consciousness, Supreme

Being, Divinity) IS, besides God, there is nothing else - " Vasudeva

Sarvam " (All is only God, Divinity, Consciousness)

Spiritual Practice # 2

I only belong to God (Supreme Being), and

Only God is my very own.

Spiritual Practice # 3

IS NOT

- Body and this World are in the form of " IS NOT "

- The Unreal has no existence

- " Nashto Moha " , all attachments are wiped out, delusion is removed

once and for all.

IS

- God (Divinity, Supreme Consciousness) IS

- The Real never ceases to be

- " Smriti labdhvaa " I now recollect, I have regained my memory, I

now remember)

If one of these are accepted, cherished and fostered, then human

life can be a success. There are more....

Meera Das

Ram Ram

For : Dalmiaji,

Much of the discussion triggered by my question is largely defensive

in nature, rather than trying to get to the root of the matter. And

therein lies one of our greatest shortcoming as a people in modern

times: the penchant to evade the real issues and to confuse people.

Your response is, however, one of the more somber ones that

endeavored to be helpful. I appreciate it.

Until we can give a simple and satisfactory answer to the questions,

a large portion of us will be dissatisfied. Why should God

discriminate if karma is an unalterable law? Gita clearly says that

God does not discriminate ... the law of karma will take its toll on

all of us, regardless of the material or spiritual status we have

achieved. We are free only when our karma is exhausted. Then there

is no cause; hence no effect. Yet one free of Karma can live in

this world and work, so says Gita. And I believe it.

At the lotus feet of Dharma,

Ramesh Gampat

-----------------------------

SIN as its spelling suggest can be defined as where..... S = Soul

I = Is N = Negated.

Kishin Chandiramani

------------------------------

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> What Madanji has written is correct but with a difference. God has

> decided on certain rules to run the universe (like king decides on

> rules to run his kingdom). God does not implement these rules.

> Rules are implemented by his nature (like in case of king, the

rules

> are implemented by the servants nominated by him for the purpose).

> No one (not even God himself) has the power to change these rules.

> God's mercy showers on all without any differentiation (this is

like

> the sunlight falls on all objects equally). All people do not

> experience the mercy equally (like a black object and white object

> do not reflect the sunlight equally).

>

> Further, cause and effect is applicable to the body and not

> to 'self'. That is why we see that even the body of great saints

> also suffers. This suffering is limited to the body only. As the

> identity of the saint has changed from the body to 'self', he does

> not suffer, but to ordinary people like us it looks that he is

> suffering.

>

> The real interpretation of the word " Sanmukh " , " Worships me with

> exclusive devotion " , " my devotee " etc. is " Sakshatkar " and not

> changing life towards God. After God realisation, the identity of

> the person changes from body to self. To elaborate, during a dream

a

> person identifies himself as the dream body and enjoys or suffers

> from the happenings in the dream. But as soon as he wakes up, his

> identity changes and the dream has no more any affect on him.

>

> A.H.Dalmia

>

> Does god remove the sins?

> It is answered in identification of the sinner. Sin is a thought

of

> wrong doing, by the ego or power or in fits of anger. It is like a

> car accident due to its faulty brakes or bad road condition and so

> on. Is it the fault of the car? Should the car be hanged to death

> for the sin it committed by fault in brake or bad road ? The God

is

> owner of all cars and defects in cars is removed by the God by

> correction and not punishing. The courts are not intelligent and

> legal apartus is not able to make it effective in justice. More

are

> courts, more are criminals. They are not reform conscious and

> therefore the sinner tries to escape from it, and go into politics

> to add on their protection. But turning to god, any sinner is

never

> refused and he or she gets strength to overcome his/her fault.

> Balmiki, Angulimaal, Ashoka were criminals but they after in

contact

> with Narada, and Buddha got cleaned by self purification.

> regards

> K G

> (Krishna Gopal)

>

> --------------------------------

>

> 1. Every human being is born with the discretionary powers to act

in

> the way he wishes, with the sixth sense which warns him against

> commiting sins.

> 2. When you are going to commit an " AKRUTHYA " or knowingly a wrong

> act, the soul within you warns you not to do it as it would be

> a " sin " . This voice comes from within you and that is

called " ANTHA:

> KARANAM " . This is the voice of God within every individual

existing

> since birth, and active when they grow up.

> 3. The character is also moulded by imbibing it from the

> environments and the advices from the parents and teachers to this

> effect.

> 4. If one ignores this INNER VOICE of warning and deliberately

> continues to commit the sins, in course of time the inner voice

dies

> out and the criminal tendencies grow to commit more sins.

> 5. If someone commits a wrong unknowingly and repents, GOD would

> forgive him. But commissio n of deliberate acts knowing fully well

> the consequences of the evil act, the individual has to suffer the

> consequences either the same birth or in the next birth as per

Hindu

> philosophy.

>

> kesava pillai

>

> -

> Jai Ram Ji Ki!!!!!!

> It is true that for sharnaagata bhakta (devotee who has taken

refuge

> in God), theory of karma is very different. I wonder how many

> people you have met in your life who are qualified to be sharnagat

> bhakta. My point is it is rare to meet a sharnaagata bhakta if if

> not impossible. Therfore, the theory of karma will apply to all

> except those few souls.

> Sudhir Kalra

> -

-

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear Rameshji and all For ordinary

> worldly

> > people the Karma theory of cause and effect invariably applies.

> But the

> > case of a sharanagata bhakta (a devotee who has taken refuge in

> God, who

> > is exclusively dependent on only God) it is very different, the

> normal

> > Karma theory does not apply! God is the maker of these rules, he

> can

> > bypass these rules at His own will, out his compassion and mercy

> for his

> > true devotee. As Goswami Tulsidasji says in Sunder Kandha of

> > Ram-charit-manas, Lord Rama says to Sugriva in reference to

> Vhibhishana:

> > " sanmukha hoi jiva mohi jabhee, janma koti agha nasahi taba-hee "

> > Meaning - The moment an embodied soul turns towards Me (i.e.,

> takes My

> > sharanagatih, depends on Me for everything), the sins incurred

by

> him

> > through millions of lives are washed away instantly. In Gitaji

> too, in

> > many places, in few of those verse, Lord Krishna declares: In

> context

> > of Bhakti Yoga ï¿½ Verse 9-30: " Even if a man of most sinful

> conduct

> > worships Me with exclusive devotion, he should be considered as

a

> saint,

> > for he has rightly resolved " . Verse 9-31: " Quickly does such a

man

> > become righteous and attains lasting peace. Know that, for

certain

> My

> > devotee never perishes " . Verse 27 & 28: " O son of Kunti,

whatever

> you

> > do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer as oblation to the

sacred

> fire,

> > whatever you bestow as a gift; whatever you do by way of

penance,

> offer

> > it all to Me " . " Thus shall you be free from the bondage of

actions

> > yielding good and bad results. With the mind firmly set in the

> yoga of

> > renunciation and liberated, you shall come to Meï¿½. Verse 18-

66:

> > " Abandoning the dependence of all karmas (Dharmas), take refuge

in

> Me

> > alone, for I shall liberate you from all sins, - grieve not " .

In

> > context of Jnana Yoga - Verse 4-36: " Even if you are the most

> sinful of

> > all sinners, you will cross over all sins by the raft of

> knowledge " .

> > Verse 4-37: " As the blazing fire reduces the fuel to ashes,

> Arjuna, even

> > so the fire of knowledge reduces all actions to ashes " . In the

> context

> > of Karma Yoga ( & Jnana Yoga) - Verse 4-19 " He whose undertakings

> are

> > free from desire, whose actions are all burnt by the fire of

> wisdom,

> > him, the wise call a man of learningï¿½. Ram Ram Humble

> > pranam! Madan Kaura

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> -----\

> > --------------------------

> > Hari Om

> >

> > Re Saadhak Brother Raghuvanshiji's queries.

> >

> > No for the first question -If we turn towards the God does He

> forgives

> > or forget our past sins?

> >

> > God does not change his Law of Karma for your past deeds. He

> changes

> > you , O Son of God! He does not forget your sins, He makes you

> forget

> > them.He does not forgive you, He makes you strong enough to

> disregard

> > the punishment arising out of your past deeds.

> >

> > Yes to your question- does God help us in freeing us from sins!

> Yes !

> > Who else can help us?

> > This is how He helps you_

> > On one hand He drives you towards Equanimity, makes your

> Conscience

> > more vocal and activates " Daivi sampada " -divine properties in

you

> > (read Gitaji 16:1 to 16:5) to help you strongly disregard any

> > consequences of your past deeds On other hand as soon as you turn

> > towards Him , He makes the Law of Karma inoperative for your all

> future

> > actions and karmas. In end you can Only become " F R E E " ! What

> else you

> > can become when old karmas will keep giving you results and

getting

> > extinguished and no new. Karmas will take place? FREE..

> >

> > That is how the God and the Law of Karma operate. God does not

> look at

> > your sins at all, He looks at you!

> >

> > Jai Shree Krishna

> >

> > N B Vyas

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> -----\

> > --------------------------------

--

> -----\

> > ------

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hari Om

> > >

> > > Re Saadhak Raghuvanshi's query on the subject. No it does not

> mean

> > > that.you do the sins, ask for forgiveness and God forgets

that.

> You

> > > are right however in observing that God helps in getting you

> free.

> > >

> > > We must understand first the fact that we are children of God

in

> the

> > > truest sense and so is everybody else. Our strongest enemy is

as

> good

> > > a son of God as are we.Hence God has to sit in Equanimity and

> has to

> > > be disinterested friend of ours.In his vision our good or bad

> conduct

> > > has no relevance. His yardstick therefore is not our " sins " at

> all.

> > > His yardstick is " your sense of mineness with Him " .

> > >

> > > When you realise your real " mineness " , when you realise that

> you are

> > > son of God you turn naturally towards Him. As soon as you turn

> towards

> > > him , for you the Law of Karma instantly(as per Gitaji

> in " kshipram "

> > > time-less than a second) ceases to operate. Hence the very

> reasons of

> > > incurring sins get eliminated.

> > >

> > > When you consider your body or the world to be " mine " , you

are

> > > misidentifying yourself and hence you are the " doer " of your

> Karmas

> > > maintaining an independent identity of your own. Naturally

then

> you

> > > must be responsible for deeds-because you are

> presuming " doership " by

> > > you in your independent capacity. Law of Karma comes into play

> > > therefore, because you must then be responsible for good or bad

> > > deeds.If you consider yourself to be as good as God,or of the

> God or

> > > for the God - then your Karmas will cease to be for you and

> hence they

> > > will loose the capacity to bind you now or in future. They

will

> become

> > > " Akarmas "

> > >

> > > Therefore your past Karmas will now accelerate giving you

> results and

> > > thereby extinguish themselves upon giving you the results. Old

> debts

> > > will get repaid. No new debts are being incurred by you as

> explained

> > > above. In the end what you can become except " FREE " !

> > >

> > > Your results for past deeds will come to you -certainly.Here

> now that

> > > disinterested friend of ours, that Father of us, that God

helps.

> He

> > > now changes his character from being " disinterested friend " to

a

> > > loving father because of change in our character_

> our " mineness " (Read

> > > Gitaji 9:29). That father does not change his Law of Karma for

> our

> > > past deeds. He helps us by granting " Daivi Sampada " (read

Gitaji

> 16:1

> > > to 16:5) to us so that we may happily and easily suffer the

> > > consequences of our past deeds. He makes us so solid that any

> > > happening in our worldly life ceases to impact us. He drives

us

> to the

> > > Equanimity. He awakens our conscience(viveka) and starts

> operating

> > > full time through that conscience.Earlier He used to give

sudden

> calls

> > > through conscience but infrequently based on our respect

> levels.Now He

> > > is operating full time. Now past deeds have no choice but to

> > > accelerate giving you results. You go on a superfast track. No

> new

> > > Karma are getting accumulated. You can only be " FREE " now.

> > >

> > > This how your queries get solved. God does not change his Law

of

> > > Karma, He changes you , O Son of God! He does not forgive you,

He

> > > grants you immunity to the punishment. He does not forget your

> past

> > > deeds, He makes you forget that. He helps you certainly. Who

> else can

> > > help you otherwise?

> > >

> > > Jai Shree Krishna

> > >

> > > N B Vyas

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> --

> > > Dear Khagah (fellow travellers in sky of truth)

> > >

> > > What is the essense of the Gita, and how it is different from

> rest of

> > > studies?

> > >

> > > We all study in universities and become

professionals/specialist

> in a

> > > particular field and somehow painstakingly become rich and

> famous, but

> > > yet not developed with compassion and knowledge and love; and

> this

> > > conflict between Daksha (competent) and Enlightened (Shiva)

> begins. In

> > > India, not difficult to find doctors, lawyers, judges, police

and

> > > politicians, government officers and clerks how are they self

> centered

> > > and so much corrupt that normal people are afraid of them and

> avoid to

> > > go or be in contact with them. The ego, money power, authority

> has

> > > made these professionals or specialist fallen in catagory of

> > > criminals. The under current started, and competence fall from

> grace

> > > and power. It happened all the time in history.

> > >

> > > In SriMad Bhaagwat, this conflict is very beautifully

explained,

> how

> > > Daksha (competent, specialists) was short-sighted and full of

> ego,

> > > power and skill and position and, he, opposed the Shiva

> (enlightened,

> > > care free, defenseless, full with love, truth). Sati (wife of

> Shiva,

> > > and daughter of Daksha) was in midst of these both, confused

as

> to

> > > whom she should choose without annoying anyone. Same

situation

> of

> > > Sati was arisen again with Arjun who was son and grand son of

> Bhishm,

> > > and Drtrashtra (equivalent of Daksha) and on the other hand,

> has Sri

> > > Krishna (equivalent of Shiva). Arjun as well as Sati had

problem

> in

> > > choosing the right side, and Sri Krishna (Shiva) and

DratRashtra

> > > (Daksha) fought the Mahabharata.

> > >

> > > Bhagwat Gita is not for making any one competent (daksha) but

> > > Enlightened (shiva). This explains the risk of being short-

> sighted or

> > > microscopic intellect, and rather it emphasizes on telescopic

> > > intellect, or long-sighted detached or independent view of the

> truth.

> > >

> > > Bhagwat Gita is a conference of Krishna with Arjun, and

> DharatRashtra

> > > (aided by Sanjaya). Bhagwat Gita begins after the following

> statement

> > > of Arjun to Shri Krishna

> > >

> > > " kaparnya dosho pahatah sva bhaavh, prkshyami tvaam dharma

> sammodh

> > > chetah, yat shreah sya nischitam bruhi me tat, shish es te ham

> shyadhi

> > > maam tvam prapannam. "

> > >

> > > Arjun was undoubtedly highly educated and taught by

Dronacharya

> in the

> > > fields of weaponary, and justice and administration. But in

the

> war,

> > > nothing worked and he was indecisive and shaking by fear of

> > > consequences of his ensuing actions. Drona his teacher, stood

> against

> > > him, and so were his grandfather, so many brothers and

soldiers

> on the

> > > both sides. He was in midst of cobweb of thoughts, and worded

> himself

> > > as coward. Kaparnya dosho (sick of cowardice), pahath sva

bhaavah

> > > (whose self nature is fallen).

> > >

> > > Arjun faced a crisis of 'Sva bhaav' threatened by defenses of

> his own

> > > prejudice, ego, relationship biases and attachment. His

> independent

> > > nature (sva bhaav) was lost. Defenses or bhaav (different such

as

> > > valuation, prejudice) became counterproductive. In presence

of

> bhaav,

> > > the sva bhaav gets limited. Bhagwat Gita is based on words

that

> are

> > > technically precise because Arjun was not in a class room or

> > > contemplation in retreat but in situation of a war. Sri

Krishna

> taught

> > > non-violence (action of non-reaction) and its applicability in

a

> war

> > > with DhratRashtra (blind/insensitive law and order: on which a

> nation

> > > 'rashtra' rests 'dhrat').

> > >

> > > In every day life, each one of us are in midst of a war, and

> Krishna

> > > inside protect our swa bhaav from falling down. This sva

bhaav

> and

> > > boundary/defenses (or bhaav) are crucial. If defenses are

high,

> the

> > > self nature is at peril.

> > >

> > > This voice of the Gita must find place for discussion in tirth

> of Gita

> > > talk.

> > > Regards

> > > K G

> > > (Krishna Gopal)

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> --

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > sadhak_insight@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > The law of karma is a law and none is free from it until all

> sense

> > > > of doership is relinquished, until there is no more sense of

> agency

> > > > or " Iness. " One is held to the consequences of one's

> accumulated

> > > > karma until all karmas are exhausted.

> > > >

> > > > We thus need to make a distinction between accumulated karma

> and new

> > > > karma. For him (or her) who sees one in all and all in one,

> who is

> > > > completely unattached and free of desire, karma ceases to

be.

> S/he

> > > > accumulates no karma. But one can only get there if one

> exhaust all

> > > > accumulated karma; before that one is not free from the

> consequences

> > > > of karma.

> > > >

> > > > Such is my view but I stand corrected.

> > > >

> > > > Ramesh

> > > > (Ramesh Gampat)

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> -

> > > >

> > > > Does it mean that you can do sins, pray and ask for

> forgiveness and

> > > > God forgets. God helps you to wash away all your sins, if

you

> follow

> > > > Him ?

> > > >

> > > > Ravindra

> > > > (Ravi Raghuwanshi)

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> -

> > > >

> > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Hari Om

> > > > >

> > > > > The Law of Karma would still operate , but it cease to

> impact you

> > > > > and you shall become immune from the same. A typical storm

> of the

> > > > > God 's kripa will start flowing around you and each and

every

> > > > > happenning in your life will aid to the extinguishment of

> your

> > past

> > > > > sins. Simultaneously because of your turning away from

the

> world

> > > > > and your facing towards the God , you shall naturally and

> > > > > effortlessly stop incurring new sins altogether. Hence

your

> life

> > > > > shall take a fast U turn in a decisive manner and you

shall

> stop

> > > > > getting worried. Old Karmas will accelerate giving you

> results,

> > you

> > > > > shall be unmindful of the results, new Karmas will not sow

> any

> > > > seeds

> > > > > of Bondage and you shall become free in a superfast manner-

> free

> > > > > from all sins, free from Bondage, free from The Law of

> Karma, free

> > > > > from the chains of birth, death, birth ..., free from all

> sorrows,

> > > > > all duties, all debts!

> > > > >

> > > > > The Law of Cause and Effect shall cease to be of any

> importance to

> > > > > you for the past Karmas made by you, and the Law shall

become

> > > > > inoperative for you for the present and future Karmas

> because the

> > > > > cause itself has undergone the change from bondage

> > > > creating " karma "

> > > > > to non bondage creating , non result giving " Akarma " (refer

> Geetaji

> > > > > 4:17 to 4:20) . Suddenly and faster than your imagination

you

> > shall

> > > > > find yourself to be the type of person referred in Geetaji

> 4:20 to

> > > > > 4:23

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Shree Krishna

> > > > >

> > > > > N B Vyas

> > > > >

> > --------------------------------

--

> > > > -

> > > > >

> > > > > The laws of cause and effect operate only so long as we

have

> the

> > > > > sense of doership. Once we surrender to God, then whatever

we

> > > > > do is God's work only and he takes care of us - " Jo jako

> sharano

> > > > > liyo, tako taki laaj " .

> > > > >

> > > > > Jai Sri Krsna

> > > > >

> > > > > Rajendra

> > > > > (Rajendra Bohra)

> > > > > --------------------------

--

> -----

> > > > >

> > > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Madan,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Many thanks for this interesting summary Much, much

> > appreciated.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > have one little query. I am a firm believer in Karma

but

> became

> > > > a

> > > > > > little confused with these words " God frees him from all

> sins. "

> > > > > > What of the laws of cause and effect then? Do they

cease

> to

> > > > > operate?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dhanyavad.

> > > > > > Ramesh Gampat

> > > > > >

> > --------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bhagwat Gita is a spark and is enough to illumination.

Term

> > > > > essence

> > > > > > is for gross to juice but Bhagwat Gita is essense every

> where.

> > > > > Just

> > > > > > half sentense is enough for knowing the whole, and it

> applies to

> > > > > > every person differently. A small piece is like a seed

that

> > grows

> > > > > > into tree. Do it with full intellect and freedom of

> imagination,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > find truth yourself.

> > > > > > regards

> > > > > > K G

> > > > > > (Krishna Gopal)

> > > > > >

> > --------------------------------

> > > > -

> > > > > > Sir,

> > > > > > The last chapter of Gita says. " this is a " guhya' secret

> > > > > knowledge.

> > > > > > It should be taught or discussed with intelligent

persons

> only "

> > > > > Why

> > > > > > then is it being dragged to the streets and the gutters.

> Its

> > > > value

> > > > > > is lost in the hands of " Mudhas " It is being repeated

for

> over

> > > > > five

> > > > > > millenniums and today the world is in no better

> position !!!

> > > > > > This hair splitting of words and grammar will lead us no

> where.

> > "

> > > > > > Nahi Nahi Rakshati drukkan karane " [ Said Sri. Shankara

> charya

> > ]

> > > > > > So, dwell deep into the fathomless depths of Yoga and

> come out

> > > > > > radiant with all doubts vanished. Yes, that light will

> shed on

> > > > > > others as that of Buddha - Shankara and their ilk and

> silently

> > > > > > enlighten others.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ramchander homma

> > > > > >

> > --------------------------------

> > > > > > Dear Sadhaks,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Basic priciples of Geetha. One should understand that he

> is on

> > > > > earth

> > > > > > to do the Karma (duties) entrusted to him. While doing

such

> > > > Karmas

> > > > > > one should be aware of Dharmas (that which is to be

upheld

> and

> > > > > > preserved, that which is sanctioned by the srciptures)

to

> be

> > > > > > followed. One should do such karmas surrendering

> completely the

> > > > > > fruit of actions (Karma phala) saying Narayanayethi

> Samarpayame

> > > > (I

> > > > > > surrender all to that Supreme One Narayana). The three

main

> > paths

> > > > > > prescribed said by Bhagavan (God) by way of Path of

Action

> > (Karma

> > > > > > Marg), Path of Knowledge (Dhyna Marg) and Path of

Devotion

> > > > > (Bhakthi

> > > > > > Marg). By following any one of these pths (marg) one is

> sure to

> > > > > > attain divinity.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bagavath Geetha starts with , " itthi Upanashidshu " . Means

> the

> > > > > Geetha

> > > > > > is nectar of Upanishads. Upanishads are the nectar from

the

> > > > Vedas.

> > > > > > Vedas are from Bhagavan Vishnu. Bagavan Krishna says to

> > Arjuna, "

> > > > > I

> > > > > > have given this message (upadesh) to Sun God " . Arjuna

> perplexed

> > > > > asks

> > > > > > Krishna, " YOU are just like me born and brought up,

then

> how

> > > > come

> > > > > > YOU told to Sun God at the time of creation " . Krishna

> says, " I

> > > > > know

> > > > > > the past, present and future and I know about MYSELF,

but

> you

> > > > know

> > > > > > only about this birth, and that is the differance

between

> you

> > and

> > > > > > ME " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Bhagavath Geetha, since it comes from Bagavan

Himself.

> > > > > > Krishna says, human birth is very precious and it is

only

> to be

> > > > > used

> > > > > > to attain divinity. Bhagavan says that one should not get

> > > > attached

> > > > > > to worldly matters as it gives births and deaths. One

> should

> > > > > > surrender all his actions (karmas) as stated in the three

> > > > > > paths. " By this way one can reach ME " , Bhagavan says.

> > > > > > Bhagavan says, " Kama yesha, krodha yesha==== " . Means

that

> from

> > > > > > unfulfilled desires, comes anger, and anger brings

> jealousy- so

> > > > > > desire is the root of all evils.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Sadhaks, make all evils into virtues, by having

> desire for

> > > > > only

> > > > > > God (desire to attain only HIM). Let all anger,

jealousy,

> greed

> > > > be

> > > > > > directed towards God. Greed of spending more and more

> time with

> > > > > > God, Jealous of listening to saint's stories and their

> love and

> > > > > > determination for God. etc

> > > > > > Namaste

> > > > > >

> > > > > > B.Sathyanarayan

> > > > > >

> > --------------------------------

> > > > > > , Madan kaura

> <madan_kaura@>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Shree Hari

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ram Ram!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye dhanyavad!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book " Sar-Sangrah " in

Hindi,

> > > > > overview

> > > > > > of Gita principles follow (References to relevant verses

> from

> > > > > Gitaji

> > > > > > have been added):

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man

considers

> the

> > > > > > constantly changing world to be real and permanent and he

> > expects

> > > > > > continuous pleasure from it, which the world cannot

> provide.

> > With

> > > > > > this lack of understanding, man is thus puzzled, he does

> not

> > know

> > > > > > what to do and what not to do with the result that he is

> not

> > able

> > > > > to

> > > > > > do his rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should

not

> be

> > > > > under

> > > > > > the spell of worldly attachment (moha).

> > > > > > > (Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower

of

> this

> > > > > fact

> > > > > > is Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By giving

> due

> > > > > > importance to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his

> rightful

> > > > > duty,

> > > > > > one can get rid of worry and sorrow.

> > > > > > > (Gitaji 2/ 11-30).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may vary

> due to

> > > > > > situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the

> benefit of

> > > > > > others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji:

2/31-

> 38,

> > 3-

> > > > > 35

> > > > > > and 18-47)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 4. There are two ways to break the bondage of Karma:

> > > > > > > - Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing

> your

> > duty

> > > > > > unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action.

> (Gitaji:

> > > > 2-

> > > > > > 47 and 4-18)

> > > > > > > - Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)...

> (Gitaji:

> > > > 4-

> > > > > > 34/35)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or hate

> when

> > > > > > favorable or unfavorable situations come his way,

because

> those

> > > > > > inflicted with joy and sorrow cannot rise above the

> dualities of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > world to experience the supreme bliss (Parama-ananda)...

> (Gita:

> > 5/

> > > > > 20-

> > > > > > 22)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 6. With whatever method one should attain equanimity

> (Samta)

> > > > > in

> > > > > > the Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita). Without

> > > > attaining

> > > > > > equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification of

> nature

> > > > > > (Vikaras).

> > > > > > > (Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in

> > > > > everything,

> > > > > > He is the " Is-ness " in objects, people and actions. To

> accept

> > > > this

> > > > > > truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan).

> > > > > > > (Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment when

he

> > > > leaves

> > > > > > the body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all

> times one

> > > > > > should think of God only when performing one's duty.

This

> is the

> > > > > > only way to assure that at the last minute he will

> remember God

> > > > > > since it is not certain when the last moment may come

> (Gitaji:

> > > > 8/

> > > > > 5-

> > > > > > 7).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of

> which

> > > > > Varna,

> > > > > > Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/ 30-

> 33).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 10. Whatever being is endowed with glory, brilliance,

> > beauty,

> > > > > > prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation

of a

> > spark

> > > > > of

> > > > > > God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji:

10-

> 41).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 11. Think of this world as a projection of God only,

> each

> > > > > human

> > > > > > being can experience the vision of the cosmic form

> (Visvarupa

> > > > > > darsan) of God.

> > > > > > > (Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind,

> > intellect

> > > > > > and ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-34,

> 12-8

> > and

> > > > > 18-

> > > > > > 65).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 13. In this world there is only thing worth knowing

> which

> > is

> > > > > to

> > > > > > know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16,

21).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of

> Samsara,

> > one

> > > > > > must become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas,

> Sattvic,

> > > > > > Rajasic and Tamasic. This can be achieved through

constant

> and

> > > > > > consistent exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion

> (Gita: 14-

> > > > > 20).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 15. The basis or the root of this world is only God,

> > > > believing

> > > > > > this, the devotee should worship God with exclusive

> devotion

> > > > (Gita

> > > > > > 14-26. 15-19).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man

whirls

> in 84

> > > > > lacs

> > > > > > of species and goes to hell and experiences pain and

> suffering.

> > > > To

> > > > > > liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it

is

> a must

> > > > > to

> > > > > > get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19, 20).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 17. Whatever noble action man undertakes, he should

> first

> > > > > > remember God and recite His name and then start the

action

> > > > (Gitaji

> > > > > > 17/24).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of

> Vedas is

> > > > > > contained in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji

> and gist

> > > > > of

> > > > > > Gitaji is Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with

> exclusive

> > > > > > devotion takes Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from

all

> sins

> > > > > > (Gita: 18/66).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for

the

> > verses

> > > > > > referenced above.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Humble pranam

> > > > > > > Madan Kaura

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > DEAR SADHAKAS,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF

> BHAGAVAD

> > > > GITA

> > > > > > > TAUGHT BY LORD SRI KRISHNA.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > THANKING YOU,

> > > > > > > JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNA

> > > > > > > AMIT

> > > > > > > INDIA.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ----------------------

--

> -

> > > > > > > FROM THE MODERATOR

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk

> discussions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > > > > > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify

their

> > > > doubts

> > > > > > > related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which

> further

> > > > > > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be

posted.

> > > > > > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other

> scriptures

> > > > to

> > > > > > > substantiate your response.

> > > > > > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs

> etc. to

> > > > the

> > > > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita

> > shlokas

> > > > > > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

> > > > respecting

> > > > > > > sadhaka's time.

> > > > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand

only.

> > > > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or

> other

> > > > > > > organizations.

> > > > > > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information

such

> as

> > > > phone

> > > > > > > number, address etc.

> > > > > > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular

> > > > individual

> > > > > > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > > > > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not

be

> > > > posted.

> > > > > > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the

posting,

> if

> > > > > > content

> > > > > > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the

> group.

> > > > > > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the

novices,

> > > > youth,

> > > > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the

use

> to

> > > > > > Sanskrit

> > > > > > > words only, rather provide the English word with

Sanskrit

> > > > > > bracketed

> > > > > > > wherever possible.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > MODERATOR

> > > > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

June 22, 2008

Hari Om

Re Saadhak Ramesh Gampat " s complaint and observations

Your query has been answered with unanimous conclusions by more than

dozen Saadhaks. You yourself replied to your own query also with the

same conclusion. Hence there should not be any cause of confusion.

An issue was raised and a query was posed - If God frees you from

all sins then what about accumulated Karmas? That was the passing

reference query and this query stands fully replied. However there

seems to be still ongoing reflection on the same confusion !

Reflection and further inquiry on the same is Ok. But the direction

that this confustion has taken is frustration, resulting in

judgement about the group in general, stating that all replies are

defensive, the replies reflect one of the greatest shortcomings of

the people of modern times : the penchant to evade the real issues

and confuse people! And further more that a large no of people will

remain unsatisfied. Unfair, Sir, Very unfair according to me – as

one of the humble members of the same group. No one's intentions are

to confuse anyone. No person is capable enough to confuse any other

person- it is law. Both Bondage and Liberation are in one's own mind

only- it is a principle!

What gives the indication in these messages that God discriminates?

Our own confusion does not compromise the discretionary powers of

God. The group members replied with earnest sincerity in different

manners and with different styles and giving different logic, with

great sincerity. Simply by the material shared so far, gems can be

extracted and further more giving us all an opportunity to stay

connected with God! Here no body has any selfish interest or

objective. All are Saadhaks only, with deep sincerity. Please

kindly address the specific issues that still remain a confusion

instead of general judgemental statements.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------------

jai Sia Ram, Madanji, you response is very interesting and

educative. The 18 points you have compiled are worth re-reading.

Santosh Rastogi

-

Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book " Sar-Sangrah " in Hindi, overview of

Gita principles follow (References to relevant verses from Gitaji

have been added):

1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man considers the constantly

changing world to be real and permanent and he expects continuous

pleasure from it, which the world cannot provide. With this lack of

understanding, man is thus puzzled, he does not know what to do and

what not to do with the result that he is not able to do his

rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should not be under the

spell of worldly attachment (moha).

(Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73).

2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower of this fact is

Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By giving due importance

to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his rightful duty, one can get

rid of worry and sorrow.

(Gitaji 2/ 11-30).

3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may vary due to

situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the benefit of

others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji: 2/31-38, 3-35

and 18-47)

4. There are two ways to break the bondage of Karma:

- Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing your duty

unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action. (Gitaji: 2-

47 and 4-18)

- Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)... (Gitaji: 4-34/35)

5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or hate when favorable

or unfavorable situations come his way, because those inflicted with

joy and sorrow cannot rise above the dualities of the world to

experience the supreme bliss (Parama-ananda)...(Gita: 5/ 20-22)

6. With whatever method one should attain equanimity (Samta) in the

Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita ). Without attaining

equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification of nature

(Vikaras).

(Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72).

7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in everything, He

is the " Is-ness " in objects, people and actions. To accept this

truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan).

(Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19).

8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment when he leaves the

body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all times one should

think of God only when performing one's duty. This is the only way

to assure that at the last minute he will remember God since it is

not certain when the last moment may come (Gitaji: 8/ 5-7).

9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of which Varna ,

Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/ 30-33).

10. Whatever being is endowed with glory, brilliance, beauty,

prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation of a spark of

God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji: 10-41).

11. Think of this world as a projection of God only, each human

being can experience the vision of the cosmic form (Visvarupa

darsan) of God.

(Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13).

12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind, intellect and

ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-34, 12-8 and 18-65).

13. In this world there is only thing worth knowing which is to

know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16, 21).

14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of Samsara, one must

become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas, Sattvic, Rajasic

and Tamasic. This can be achieved through constant and consistent

exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion (Gita: 14-20).

15. The basis or the root of this world is only God, believing this,

the devotee should worship God with exclusive devotion (Gita 14-26.

15-19).

16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man whirls in 84 lacs of

species and goes to hell and experiences pain and suffering. To

liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it is a must to

get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19, 20).

17. Whatever noble action man undertakes, he should first remember

God and recite His name and then start the action (Gitaji 17/24).

18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of Vedas is contained

in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji and gist of Gitaji is

Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with exclusive devotion takes

Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from all sins (Gita: 18/66).

For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for the verses

referenced above.

Madan Kaura

Ram Ram

--

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Shree Hari

> Ram Ram

> Pujya Swamiji has summarized Gitaji principles in very simple,

short slogans for spiritual practices. A couple are being shared

here:

>

> Spiritual Practice # 1

> In this entire Universe, only God (Supreme Consciousness, Supreme

> Being, Divinity) IS, besides God, there is nothing else -

" Vasudeva

> Sarvam " (All is only God, Divinity, Consciousness)

>

> Spiritual Practice # 2

> I only belong to God (Supreme Being), and

> Only God is my very own.

>

> Spiritual Practice # 3

> IS NOT

> - Body and this World are in the form of " IS NOT "

> - The Unreal has no existence

> - " Nashto Moha " , all attachments are wiped out, delusion is

removed

> once and for all.

> IS

> - God (Divinity, Supreme Consciousness) IS

> - The Real never ceases to be

> - " Smriti labdhvaa " I now recollect, I have regained my memory, I

> now remember)

>

> If one of these are accepted, cherished and fostered, then human

> life can be a success. There are more....

>

> Meera Das

> Ram Ram

>

> For : Dalmiaji,

> Much of the discussion triggered by my question is largely

defensive

> in nature, rather than trying to get to the root of the matter. And

> therein lies one of our greatest shortcoming as a people in modern

> times: the penchant to evade the real issues and to confuse people.

> Your response is, however, one of the more somber ones that

> endeavored to be helpful. I appreciate it.

>

> Until we can give a simple and satisfactory answer to the

questions,

> a large portion of us will be dissatisfied. Why should God

> discriminate if karma is an unalterable law? Gita clearly says that

> God does not discriminate ... the law of karma will take its toll

on

> all of us, regardless of the material or spiritual status we have

> achieved. We are free only when our karma is exhausted. Then there

> is no cause; hence no effect. Yet one free of Karma can live in

> this world and work, so says Gita. And I believe it.

>

> At the lotus feet of Dharma,

> Ramesh Gampat

> -----------------------------

> SIN as its spelling suggest can be defined as where..... S = Soul

> I = Is N = Negated.

> Kishin Chandiramani

> ------------------------------

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > What Madanji has written is correct but with a difference. God

has

> > decided on certain rules to run the universe (like king decides

on

> > rules to run his kingdom). God does not implement these rules.

> > Rules are implemented by his nature (like in case of king, the

> rules

> > are implemented by the servants nominated by him for the

purpose).

> > No one (not even God himself) has the power to change these

rules.

> > God's mercy showers on all without any differentiation (this is

> like

> > the sunlight falls on all objects equally). All people do not

> > experience the mercy equally (like a black object and white

object

> > do not reflect the sunlight equally).

> >

> > Further, cause and effect is applicable to the body and not

> > to 'self'. That is why we see that even the body of great saints

> > also suffers. This suffering is limited to the body only. As the

> > identity of the saint has changed from the body to 'self', he

does

> > not suffer, but to ordinary people like us it looks that he is

> > suffering.

> >

> > The real interpretation of the word " Sanmukh " , " Worships me with

> > exclusive devotion " , " my devotee " etc. is " Sakshatkar " and not

> > changing life towards God. After God realisation, the identity of

> > the person changes from body to self. To elaborate, during a

dream

> a

> > person identifies himself as the dream body and enjoys or suffers

> > from the happenings in the dream. But as soon as he wakes up, his

> > identity changes and the dream has no more any affect on him.

> >

> > A.H.Dalmia

> > --------------------------------

-

> > Does god remove the sins?

> > It is answered in identification of the sinner. Sin is a thought

> of

> > wrong doing, by the ego or power or in fits of anger. It is like

a

> > car accident due to its faulty brakes or bad road condition and

so

> > on. Is it the fault of the car? Should the car be hanged to death

> > for the sin it committed by fault in brake or bad road ? The God

> is

> > owner of all cars and defects in cars is removed by the God by

> > correction and not punishing. The courts are not intelligent and

> > legal apartus is not able to make it effective in justice. More

> are

> > courts, more are criminals. They are not reform conscious and

> > therefore the sinner tries to escape from it, and go into

politics

> > to add on their protection. But turning to god, any sinner is

> never

> > refused and he or she gets strength to overcome his/her fault.

> > Balmiki, Angulimaal, Ashoka were criminals but they after in

> contact

> > with Narada, and Buddha got cleaned by self purification.

> > regards

> > K G

> > (Krishna Gopal)

> >

> > --------------------------------

> >

> > 1. Every human being is born with the discretionary powers to act

> in

> > the way he wishes, with the sixth sense which warns him against

> > commiting sins.

> > 2. When you are going to commit an " AKRUTHYA " or knowingly a

wrong

> > act, the soul within you warns you not to do it as it would be

> > a " sin " . This voice comes from within you and that is

> called " ANTHA:

> > KARANAM " . This is the voice of God within every individual

> existing

> > since birth, and active when they grow up.

> > 3. The character is also moulded by imbibing it from the

> > environments and the advices from the parents and teachers to

this

> > effect.

> > 4. If one ignores this INNER VOICE of warning and deliberately

> > continues to commit the sins, in course of time the inner voice

> dies

> > out and the criminal tendencies grow to commit more sins.

> > 5. If someone commits a wrong unknowingly and repents, GOD would

> > forgive him. But commissio n of deliberate acts knowing fully

well

> > the consequences of the evil act, the individual has to suffer

the

> > consequences either the same birth or in the next birth as per

> Hindu

> > philosophy.

> >

> > kesava pillai

> >

> > --------------------------------

--

> > Jai Ram Ji Ki!!!!!!

> > It is true that for sharnaagata bhakta (devotee who has taken

> refuge

> > in God), theory of karma is very different. I wonder how many

> > people you have met in your life who are qualified to be

sharnagat

> > bhakta. My point is it is rare to meet a sharnaagata bhakta if

if

> > not impossible. Therfore, the theory of karma will apply to all

> > except those few souls.

> > Sudhir Kalra

> > --------------------------------

--

> -

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shree Hari Ram Ram Dear Rameshji and all For ordinary

> > worldly

> > > people the Karma theory of cause and effect invariably applies.

> > But the

> > > case of a sharanagata bhakta (a devotee who has taken refuge in

> > God, who

> > > is exclusively dependent on only God) it is very different,

the

> > normal

> > > Karma theory does not apply! God is the maker of these rules,

he

> > can

> > > bypass these rules at His own will, out his compassion and

mercy

> > for his

> > > true devotee. As Goswami Tulsidasji says in Sunder Kandha of

> > > Ram-charit-manas, Lord Rama says to Sugriva in reference to

> > Vhibhishana:

> > > " sanmukha hoi jiva mohi jabhee, janma koti agha nasahi taba-

hee "

> > > Meaning - The moment an embodied soul turns towards Me (i.e.,

> > takes My

> > > sharanagatih, depends on Me for everything), the sins incurred

> by

> > him

> > > through millions of lives are washed away instantly. In

Gitaji

> > too, in

> > > many places, in few of those verse, Lord Krishna declares: In

> > context

> > > of Bhakti Yoga ï¿½ Verse 9-30: " Even if a man of most sinful

> > conduct

> > > worships Me with exclusive devotion, he should be considered as

> a

> > saint,

> > > for he has rightly resolved " . Verse 9-31: " Quickly does such a

> man

> > > become righteous and attains lasting peace. Know that, for

> certain

> > My

> > > devotee never perishes " . Verse 27 & 28: " O son of Kunti,

> whatever

> > you

> > > do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer as oblation to the

> sacred

> > fire,

> > > whatever you bestow as a gift; whatever you do by way of

> penance,

> > offer

> > > it all to Me " . " Thus shall you be free from the bondage of

> actions

> > > yielding good and bad results. With the mind firmly set in the

> > yoga of

> > > renunciation and liberated, you shall come to Meï¿½. Verse 18-

> 66:

> > > " Abandoning the dependence of all karmas (Dharmas), take refuge

> in

> > Me

> > > alone, for I shall liberate you from all sins, - grieve not " .

> In

> > > context of Jnana Yoga - Verse 4-36: " Even if you are the most

> > sinful of

> > > all sinners, you will cross over all sins by the raft of

> > knowledge " .

> > > Verse 4-37: " As the blazing fire reduces the fuel to ashes,

> > Arjuna, even

> > > so the fire of knowledge reduces all actions to ashes " . In

the

> > context

> > > of Karma Yoga ( & Jnana Yoga) - Verse 4-19 " He whose

undertakings

> > are

> > > free from desire, whose actions are all burnt by the fire of

> > wisdom,

> > > him, the wise call a man of learningï¿½. Ram Ram Humble

> > > pranam! Madan Kaura

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> --

> > -----\

> > > --------------------------

> > > Hari Om

> > >

> > > Re Saadhak Brother Raghuvanshiji's queries.

> > >

> > > No for the first question -If we turn towards the God does He

> > forgives

> > > or forget our past sins?

> > >

> > > God does not change his Law of Karma for your past deeds. He

> > changes

> > > you , O Son of God! He does not forget your sins, He makes you

> > forget

> > > them.He does not forgive you, He makes you strong enough to

> > disregard

> > > the punishment arising out of your past deeds.

> > >

> > > Yes to your question- does God help us in freeing us from sins!

> > Yes !

> > > Who else can help us?

> > > This is how He helps you_

> > > On one hand He drives you towards Equanimity, makes your

> > Conscience

> > > more vocal and activates " Daivi sampada " -divine properties in

> you

> > > (read Gitaji 16:1 to 16:5) to help you strongly disregard any

> > > consequences of your past deeds On other hand as soon as you

turn

> > > towards Him , He makes the Law of Karma inoperative for your

all

> > future

> > > actions and karmas. In end you can Only become " F R E E " ! What

> > else you

> > > can become when old karmas will keep giving you results and

> getting

> > > extinguished and no new. Karmas will take place? FREE..

> > >

> > > That is how the God and the Law of Karma operate. God does not

> > look at

> > > your sins at all, He looks at you!

> > >

> > > Jai Shree Krishna

> > >

> > > N B Vyas

> > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> --

> > -----\

> > > ------------------------------

--

> --

> > -----\

> > > ------

> > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hari Om

> > > >

> > > > Re Saadhak Raghuvanshi's query on the subject. No it does not

> > mean

> > > > that.you do the sins, ask for forgiveness and God forgets

> that.

> > You

> > > > are right however in observing that God helps in getting you

> > free.

> > > >

> > > > We must understand first the fact that we are children of God

> in

> > the

> > > > truest sense and so is everybody else. Our strongest enemy is

> as

> > good

> > > > a son of God as are we.Hence God has to sit in Equanimity and

> > has to

> > > > be disinterested friend of ours.In his vision our good or bad

> > conduct

> > > > has no relevance. His yardstick therefore is not our " sins "

at

> > all.

> > > > His yardstick is " your sense of mineness with Him " .

> > > >

> > > > When you realise your real " mineness " , when you realise that

> > you are

> > > > son of God you turn naturally towards Him. As soon as you

turn

> > towards

> > > > him , for you the Law of Karma instantly(as per Gitaji

> > in " kshipram "

> > > > time-less than a second) ceases to operate. Hence the very

> > reasons of

> > > > incurring sins get eliminated.

> > > >

> > > > When you consider your body or the world to be " mine " , you

> are

> > > > misidentifying yourself and hence you are the " doer " of your

> > Karmas

> > > > maintaining an independent identity of your own. Naturally

> then

> > you

> > > > must be responsible for deeds-because you are

> > presuming " doership " by

> > > > you in your independent capacity. Law of Karma comes into

play

> > > > therefore, because you must then be responsible for good or

bad

> > > > deeds.If you consider yourself to be as good as God,or of the

> > God or

> > > > for the God - then your Karmas will cease to be for you and

> > hence they

> > > > will loose the capacity to bind you now or in future. They

> will

> > become

> > > > " Akarmas "

> > > >

> > > > Therefore your past Karmas will now accelerate giving you

> > results and

> > > > thereby extinguish themselves upon giving you the results.

Old

> > debts

> > > > will get repaid. No new debts are being incurred by you as

> > explained

> > > > above. In the end what you can become except " FREE " !

> > > >

> > > > Your results for past deeds will come to you -certainly.Here

> > now that

> > > > disinterested friend of ours, that Father of us, that God

> helps.

> > He

> > > > now changes his character from being " disinterested friend "

to

> a

> > > > loving father because of change in our character_

> > our " mineness " (Read

> > > > Gitaji 9:29). That father does not change his Law of Karma

for

> > our

> > > > past deeds. He helps us by granting " Daivi Sampada " (read

> Gitaji

> > 16:1

> > > > to 16:5) to us so that we may happily and easily suffer the

> > > > consequences of our past deeds. He makes us so solid that any

> > > > happening in our worldly life ceases to impact us. He drives

> us

> > to the

> > > > Equanimity. He awakens our conscience(viveka) and starts

> > operating

> > > > full time through that conscience.Earlier He used to give

> sudden

> > calls

> > > > through conscience but infrequently based on our respect

> > levels.Now He

> > > > is operating full time. Now past deeds have no choice but to

> > > > accelerate giving you results. You go on a superfast track.

No

> > new

> > > > Karma are getting accumulated. You can only be " FREE " now.

> > > >

> > > > This how your queries get solved. God does not change his Law

> of

> > > > Karma, He changes you , O Son of God! He does not forgive

you,

> He

> > > > grants you immunity to the punishment. He does not forget

your

> > past

> > > > deeds, He makes you forget that. He helps you certainly. Who

> > else can

> > > > help you otherwise?

> > > >

> > > > Jai Shree Krishna

> > > >

> > > > N B Vyas

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > --

> > > > Dear Khagah (fellow travellers in sky of truth)

> > > >

> > > > What is the essense of the Gita, and how it is different from

> > rest of

> > > > studies?

> > > >

> > > > We all study in universities and become

> professionals/specialist

> > in a

> > > > particular field and somehow painstakingly become rich and

> > famous, but

> > > > yet not developed with compassion and knowledge and love; and

> > this

> > > > conflict between Daksha (competent) and Enlightened (Shiva)

> > begins. In

> > > > India, not difficult to find doctors, lawyers, judges, police

> and

> > > > politicians, government officers and clerks how are they self

> > centered

> > > > and so much corrupt that normal people are afraid of them and

> > avoid to

> > > > go or be in contact with them. The ego, money power,

authority

> > has

> > > > made these professionals or specialist fallen in catagory of

> > > > criminals. The under current started, and competence fall

from

> > grace

> > > > and power. It happened all the time in history.

> > > >

> > > > In SriMad Bhaagwat, this conflict is very beautifully

> explained,

> > how

> > > > Daksha (competent, specialists) was short-sighted and full of

> > ego,

> > > > power and skill and position and, he, opposed the Shiva

> > (enlightened,

> > > > care free, defenseless, full with love, truth). Sati (wife of

> > Shiva,

> > > > and daughter of Daksha) was in midst of these both, confused

> as

> > to

> > > > whom she should choose without annoying anyone. Same

> situation

> > of

> > > > Sati was arisen again with Arjun who was son and grand son of

> > Bhishm,

> > > > and Drtrashtra (equivalent of Daksha) and on the other hand,

> > has Sri

> > > > Krishna (equivalent of Shiva). Arjun as well as Sati had

> problem

> > in

> > > > choosing the right side, and Sri Krishna (Shiva) and

> DratRashtra

> > > > (Daksha) fought the Mahabharata.

> > > >

> > > > Bhagwat Gita is not for making any one competent (daksha) but

> > > > Enlightened (shiva). This explains the risk of being short-

> > sighted or

> > > > microscopic intellect, and rather it emphasizes on telescopic

> > > > intellect, or long-sighted detached or independent view of

the

> > truth.

> > > >

> > > > Bhagwat Gita is a conference of Krishna with Arjun, and

> > DharatRashtra

> > > > (aided by Sanjaya). Bhagwat Gita begins after the following

> > statement

> > > > of Arjun to Shri Krishna

> > > >

> > > > " kaparnya dosho pahatah sva bhaavh, prkshyami tvaam dharma

> > sammodh

> > > > chetah, yat shreah sya nischitam bruhi me tat, shish es te

ham

> > shyadhi

> > > > maam tvam prapannam. "

> > > >

> > > > Arjun was undoubtedly highly educated and taught by

> Dronacharya

> > in the

> > > > fields of weaponary, and justice and administration. But in

> the

> > war,

> > > > nothing worked and he was indecisive and shaking by fear of

> > > > consequences of his ensuing actions. Drona his teacher, stood

> > against

> > > > him, and so were his grandfather, so many brothers and

> soldiers

> > on the

> > > > both sides. He was in midst of cobweb of thoughts, and worded

> > himself

> > > > as coward. Kaparnya dosho (sick of cowardice), pahath sva

> bhaavah

> > > > (whose self nature is fallen).

> > > >

> > > > Arjun faced a crisis of 'Sva bhaav' threatened by defenses of

> > his own

> > > > prejudice, ego, relationship biases and attachment. His

> > independent

> > > > nature (sva bhaav) was lost. Defenses or bhaav (different

such

> as

> > > > valuation, prejudice) became counterproductive. In presence

> of

> > bhaav,

> > > > the sva bhaav gets limited. Bhagwat Gita is based on words

> that

> > are

> > > > technically precise because Arjun was not in a class room or

> > > > contemplation in retreat but in situation of a war. Sri

> Krishna

> > taught

> > > > non-violence (action of non-reaction) and its applicability

in

> a

> > war

> > > > with DhratRashtra (blind/insensitive law and order: on which

a

> > nation

> > > > 'rashtra' rests 'dhrat').

> > > >

> > > > In every day life, each one of us are in midst of a war, and

> > Krishna

> > > > inside protect our swa bhaav from falling down. This sva

> bhaav

> > and

> > > > boundary/defenses (or bhaav) are crucial. If defenses are

> high,

> > the

> > > > self nature is at peril.

> > > >

> > > > This voice of the Gita must find place for discussion in

tirth

> > of Gita

> > > > talk.

> > > > Regards

> > > > K G

> > > > (Krishna Gopal)

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------

--

> --

> > --

> > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > sadhak_insight@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear All,

> > > > >

> > > > > The law of karma is a law and none is free from it until

all

> > sense

> > > > > of doership is relinquished, until there is no more sense

of

> > agency

> > > > > or " Iness. " One is held to the consequences of one's

> > accumulated

> > > > > karma until all karmas are exhausted.

> > > > >

> > > > > We thus need to make a distinction between accumulated

karma

> > and new

> > > > > karma. For him (or her) who sees one in all and all in

one,

> > who is

> > > > > completely unattached and free of desire, karma ceases to

> be.

> > S/he

> > > > > accumulates no karma. But one can only get there if one

> > exhaust all

> > > > > accumulated karma; before that one is not free from the

> > consequences

> > > > > of karma.

> > > > >

> > > > > Such is my view but I stand corrected.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ramesh

> > > > > (Ramesh Gampat)

> > > > >

> > > > > --------------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > > > >

> > > > > Does it mean that you can do sins, pray and ask for

> > forgiveness and

> > > > > God forgets. God helps you to wash away all your sins, if

> you

> > follow

> > > > > Him ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Ravindra

> > > > > (Ravi Raghuwanshi)

> > > > > --------------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > > > >

> > > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hari Om

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Law of Karma would still operate , but it cease to

> > impact you

> > > > > > and you shall become immune from the same. A typical

storm

> > of the

> > > > > > God 's kripa will start flowing around you and each and

> every

> > > > > > happenning in your life will aid to the extinguishment of

> > your

> > > past

> > > > > > sins. Simultaneously because of your turning away from

> the

> > world

> > > > > > and your facing towards the God , you shall naturally and

> > > > > > effortlessly stop incurring new sins altogether. Hence

> your

> > life

> > > > > > shall take a fast U turn in a decisive manner and you

> shall

> > stop

> > > > > > getting worried. Old Karmas will accelerate giving you

> > results,

> > > you

> > > > > > shall be unmindful of the results, new Karmas will not

sow

> > any

> > > > > seeds

> > > > > > of Bondage and you shall become free in a superfast

manner-

>

> > free

> > > > > > from all sins, free from Bondage, free from The Law of

> > Karma, free

> > > > > > from the chains of birth, death, birth ..., free from all

> > sorrows,

> > > > > > all duties, all debts!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Law of Cause and Effect shall cease to be of any

> > importance to

> > > > > > you for the past Karmas made by you, and the Law shall

> become

> > > > > > inoperative for you for the present and future Karmas

> > because the

> > > > > > cause itself has undergone the change from bondage

> > > > > creating " karma "

> > > > > > to non bondage creating , non result

giving " Akarma " (refer

> > Geetaji

> > > > > > 4:17 to 4:20) . Suddenly and faster than your imagination

> you

> > > shall

> > > > > > find yourself to be the type of person referred in

Geetaji

> > 4:20 to

> > > > > > 4:23

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jai Shree Krishna

> > > > > >

> > > > > > N B Vyas

> > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> --

> > > > > -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The laws of cause and effect operate only so long as we

> have

> > the

> > > > > > sense of doership. Once we surrender to God, then

whatever

> we

> > > > > > do is God's work only and he takes care of us - " Jo jako

> > sharano

> > > > > > liyo, tako taki laaj " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jai Sri Krsna

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rajendra

> > > > > > (Rajendra Bohra)

> > > > > > ------------------------

--

> --

> > -----

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " sadhak_insight "

> > > > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Madan,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Many thanks for this interesting summary Much, much

> > > appreciated.

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > have one little query. I am a firm believer in Karma

> but

> > became

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > little confused with these words " God frees him from

all

> > sins. "

> > > > > > > What of the laws of cause and effect then? Do they

> cease

> > to

> > > > > > operate?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dhanyavad.

> > > > > > > Ramesh Gampat

> > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Bhagwat Gita is a spark and is enough to illumination.

> Term

> > > > > > essence

> > > > > > > is for gross to juice but Bhagwat Gita is essense every

> > where.

> > > > > > Just

> > > > > > > half sentense is enough for knowing the whole, and it

> > applies to

> > > > > > > every person differently. A small piece is like a seed

> that

> > > grows

> > > > > > > into tree. Do it with full intellect and freedom of

> > imagination,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > find truth yourself.

> > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > K G

> > > > > > > (Krishna Gopal)

> > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> > > > > -

> > > > > > > Sir,

> > > > > > > The last chapter of Gita says. " this is a " guhya'

secret

> > > > > > knowledge.

> > > > > > > It should be taught or discussed with intelligent

> persons

> > only "

> > > > > > Why

> > > > > > > then is it being dragged to the streets and the

gutters.

> > Its

> > > > > value

> > > > > > > is lost in the hands of " Mudhas " It is being repeated

> for

> > over

> > > > > > five

> > > > > > > millenniums and today the world is in no better

> > position !!!

> > > > > > > This hair splitting of words and grammar will lead us

no

> > where.

> > > "

> > > > > > > Nahi Nahi Rakshati drukkan karane " [ Said Sri.

Shankara

> > charya

> > > ]

> > > > > > > So, dwell deep into the fathomless depths of Yoga and

> > come out

> > > > > > > radiant with all doubts vanished. Yes, that light will

> > shed on

> > > > > > > others as that of Buddha - Shankara and their ilk and

> > silently

> > > > > > > enlighten others.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Ramchander homma

> > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> > > > > > > Dear Sadhaks,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Basic priciples of Geetha. One should understand that

he

> > is on

> > > > > > earth

> > > > > > > to do the Karma (duties) entrusted to him. While doing

> such

> > > > > Karmas

> > > > > > > one should be aware of Dharmas (that which is to be

> upheld

> > and

> > > > > > > preserved, that which is sanctioned by the srciptures)

> to

> > be

> > > > > > > followed. One should do such karmas surrendering

> > completely the

> > > > > > > fruit of actions (Karma phala) saying Narayanayethi

> > Samarpayame

> > > > > (I

> > > > > > > surrender all to that Supreme One Narayana). The three

> main

> > > paths

> > > > > > > prescribed said by Bhagavan (God) by way of Path of

> Action

> > > (Karma

> > > > > > > Marg), Path of Knowledge (Dhyna Marg) and Path of

> Devotion

> > > > > > (Bhakthi

> > > > > > > Marg). By following any one of these pths (marg) one is

> > sure to

> > > > > > > attain divinity.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Bagavath Geetha starts with , " itthi Upanashidshu " .

Means

> > the

> > > > > > Geetha

> > > > > > > is nectar of Upanishads. Upanishads are the nectar from

> the

> > > > > Vedas.

> > > > > > > Vedas are from Bhagavan Vishnu. Bagavan Krishna says

to

> > > Arjuna, "

> > > > > > I

> > > > > > > have given this message (upadesh) to Sun God " . Arjuna

> > perplexed

> > > > > > asks

> > > > > > > Krishna, " YOU are just like me born and brought up,

> then

> > how

> > > > > come

> > > > > > > YOU told to Sun God at the time of creation " . Krishna

> > says, " I

> > > > > > know

> > > > > > > the past, present and future and I know about MYSELF,

> but

> > you

> > > > > know

> > > > > > > only about this birth, and that is the differance

> between

> > you

> > > and

> > > > > > > ME " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The Bhagavath Geetha, since it comes from Bagavan

> Himself.

> > > > > > > Krishna says, human birth is very precious and it is

> only

> > to be

> > > > > > used

> > > > > > > to attain divinity. Bhagavan says that one should not

get

> > > > > attached

> > > > > > > to worldly matters as it gives births and deaths. One

> > should

> > > > > > > surrender all his actions (karmas) as stated in the

three

> > > > > > > paths. " By this way one can reach ME " , Bhagavan says.

> > > > > > > Bhagavan says, " Kama yesha, krodha yesha==== " . Means

> that

> > from

> > > > > > > unfulfilled desires, comes anger, and anger brings

> > jealousy- so

> > > > > > > desire is the root of all evils.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Sadhaks, make all evils into virtues, by having

> > desire for

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > God (desire to attain only HIM). Let all anger,

> jealousy,

> > greed

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > directed towards God. Greed of spending more and more

> > time with

> > > > > > > God, Jealous of listening to saint's stories and their

> > love and

> > > > > > > determination for God. etc

> > > > > > > Namaste

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > B.Sathyanarayan

> > > > > > >

> > > ------------------------------

--

> > > > > > > , Madan kaura

> > <madan_kaura@>

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Shree Hari

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ram Ram!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Priya Sadhak, prasana ke liye dhanyavad!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Based on Swamiji Maharaj's book " Sar-Sangrah " in

> Hindi,

> > > > > > overview

> > > > > > > of Gita principles follow (References to relevant

verses

> > from

> > > > > > Gitaji

> > > > > > > have been added):

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1. Due to the delusion (Samsaric Moha), man

> considers

> > the

> > > > > > > constantly changing world to be real and permanent and

he

> > > expects

> > > > > > > continuous pleasure from it, which the world cannot

> > provide.

> > > With

> > > > > > > this lack of understanding, man is thus puzzled, he

does

> > not

> > > know

> > > > > > > what to do and what not to do with the result that he

is

> > not

> > > able

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > do his rightful duty (Swadharma). Therefore one should

> not

> > be

> > > > > > under

> > > > > > > the spell of worldly attachment (moha).

> > > > > > > > (Gitaji: 1- 27, 2- 7, 18-73).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2. The body (Sharira) is perishable and the knower

> of

> > this

> > > > > > fact

> > > > > > > is Atma (Sharii) which Itself is imperishable. By

giving

> > due

> > > > > > > importance to this wisdom (Viveka), one performs his

> > rightful

> > > > > > duty,

> > > > > > > one can get rid of worry and sorrow.

> > > > > > > > (Gitaji 2/ 11-30).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3. When one does his duty (Swadharma) which may

vary

> > due to

> > > > > > > situations or circumstances unselfishly and for the

> > benefit of

> > > > > > > others, he progresses spiritually very fast. (Gitaji:

> 2/31-

> > 38,

> > > 3-

> > > > > > 35

> > > > > > > and 18-47)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 4. There are two ways to break the bondage of

Karma:

> > > > > > > > - Knowing the secret of work (Karma Yoga) and doing

> > your

> > > duty

> > > > > > > unselfishly without the desire for the fruit of action.

> > (Gitaji:

> > > > > 2-

> > > > > > > 47 and 4-18)

> > > > > > > > - Realizing the true nature of Self (Jnana Yoga)...

> > (Gitaji:

> > > > > 4-

> > > > > > > 34/35)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 5. One should neither rejoice nor feel sorry or

hate

> > when

> > > > > > > favorable or unfavorable situations come his way,

> because

> > those

> > > > > > > inflicted with joy and sorrow cannot rise above the

> > dualities of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > world to experience the supreme bliss (Parama-

ananda)...

> > (Gita:

> > > 5/

> > > > > > 20-

> > > > > > > 22)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 6. With whatever method one should attain

equanimity

> > (Samta)

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > the Antahkaran (Mind, Intellect, Ego and Chita).

Without

> > > > > attaining

> > > > > > > equanimity one cannot totally get rid of modification

of

> > nature

> > > > > > > (Vikaras).

> > > > > > > > (Gitaji:2-48, 2/ 55-72).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 7. Everything is only God and God is the essence in

> > > > > > everything,

> > > > > > > He is the " Is-ness " in objects, people and actions. To

> > accept

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > truth whole heartedly, it is the best method (Sadhan).

> > > > > > > > (Gitaji: 7/ 7-12, 9/ 4-5, 10-8, 16-19).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 8. Whatever a man thinks of at the last moment

when

> he

> > > > > leaves

> > > > > > > the body, that alone does he attain. Therefore at all

> > times one

> > > > > > > should think of God only when performing one's duty.

> This

> > is the

> > > > > > > only way to assure that at the last minute he will

> > remember God

> > > > > > > since it is not certain when the last moment may come

> > (Gitaji:

> > > > > 8/

> > > > > > 5-

> > > > > > > 7).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 9. Everyone is entitled to reach God regardless of

> > which

> > > > > > Varna,

> > > > > > > Ashrama, Sampradaya, etc. he belongs to. (Gitaji: 9/

30-

> > 33).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10. Whatever being is endowed with glory,

brilliance,

> > > beauty,

> > > > > > > prosperity or power, know that to be the manifestation

> of a

> > > spark

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > God's splendor and therefore think of God only (Gitaji:

> 10-

> > 41).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 11. Think of this world as a projection of God

only,

> > each

> > > > > > human

> > > > > > > being can experience the vision of the cosmic form

> > (Visvarupa

> > > > > > > darsan) of God.

> > > > > > > > (Gitaji:6/ 29-30, 11- 7,13).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 12. The devotee who submits his body, senses, mind,

> > > intellect

> > > > > > > and ego whole-heartedly he is dear to God (Gitaji: 9-

34,

> > 12-8

> > > and

> > > > > > 18-

> > > > > > > 65).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 13. In this world there is only thing worth

knowing

> > which

> > > is

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > know God, only then one attains to immortality (8-16,

> 21).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 14. In order to obtain freedom from the bonds of

> > Samsara,

> > > one

> > > > > > > must become guna-atita, going, beyond the three gunas,

> > Sattvic,

> > > > > > > Rajasic and Tamasic. This can be achieved through

> constant

> > and

> > > > > > > consistent exclusive (thinking of no other) devotion

> > (Gita: 14-

> > > > > > 20).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 15. The basis or the root of this world is only

God,

> > > > > believing

> > > > > > > this, the devotee should worship God with exclusive

> > devotion

> > > > > (Gita

> > > > > > > 14-26. 15-19).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 16. With the bad conduct and bad behavior, man

> whirls

> > in 84

> > > > > > lacs

> > > > > > > of species and goes to hell and experiences pain and

> > suffering.

> > > > > To

> > > > > > > liberate oneself from the cycle of birth and death, it

> is

> > a must

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > get rid of bad conduct and bad behavior (Gita 16-19,

20).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 17. Whatever noble action man undertakes, he should

> > first

> > > > > > > remember God and recite His name and then start the

> action

> > > > > (Gitaji

> > > > > > > 17/24).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 18. Gist of all scriptures are the Vedas, gist of

> > Vedas is

> > > > > > > contained in Upnishads, the gist of Upnishads is Gitaji

> > and gist

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > Gitaji is Sharnagatih at the feet of God. Who with

> > exclusive

> > > > > > > devotion takes Sharnagatih of God, God frees him from

> all

> > sins

> > > > > > > (Gita: 18/66).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > For further study pls. read Sadhaka Sanjivanee for

> the

> > > verses

> > > > > > > referenced above.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Humble pranam

> > > > > > > > Madan Kaura

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > sadhak_insight <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DEAR SADHAKAS,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > PLEASE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF

> > BHAGAVAD

> > > > > GITA

> > > > > > > > TAUGHT BY LORD SRI KRISHNA.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > THANKING YOU,

> > > > > > > > JAI SRI RADHE KRISHNA

> > > > > > > > AMIT

> > > > > > > > INDIA.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --------------------

--

> --

> > -

> > > > > > > > FROM THE MODERATOR

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk

> > discussions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

> > > > > > > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify

> their

> > > > > doubts

> > > > > > > > related to Gitaji shlokas. Therefore, responses which

> > further

> > > > > > > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be

> posted.

> > > > > > > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other

> > scriptures

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > substantiate your response.

> > > > > > > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs

> > etc. to

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the

Gita

> > > shlokas

> > > > > > > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible,

> > > > > respecting

> > > > > > > > sadhaka's time.

> > > > > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand

> only.

> > > > > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or

> > other

> > > > > > > > organizations.

> > > > > > > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information

> such

> > as

> > > > > phone

> > > > > > > > number, address etc.

> > > > > > > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular

> > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > since the message is going to the entire group.

> > > > > > > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not

> be

> > > > > posted.

> > > > > > > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the

> posting,

> > if

> > > > > > > content

> > > > > > > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the

> > group.

> > > > > > > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the

> novices,

> > > > > youth,

> > > > > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the

> use

> > to

> > > > > > > Sanskrit

> > > > > > > > words only, rather provide the English word with

> Sanskrit

> > > > > > > bracketed

> > > > > > > > wherever possible.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > MODERATOR

> > > > > > > > Ram Ram

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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