Multitude and singularity of the MIND, (CONSCIOUSNESS?).

[Guest guest]

I have watched brilliant men, arguing over the origins of the

universe on TV.

People getting tangled up with what was before. And how nature is a

ware zone.

A technical technique I have used called Lissajous, will reveal one

frequency among a multitude, simply by using the right reference. I

think using the right reference can expose among the dross the TRUTH.

I don't believe modern western thinking will get there, unless

courage is shown in the understanding that the intellect is a very

long road.

I am trying to be introspective, not intellectual.

There is a question here, something to do with multitude and

singularity of the MIND, (CONSCIOUSNESS?).

 

Any insights based on the Gita ?

 

Yours in respect,

 

Mike

(mike.keenor)

 

> :Shree Hari:

>

> 1st April, 2008, Tuesday

> Chaitra Krishna Dashami, Vikram Samvat 2064, Mangalvar

>

> Just like at present, this hall is illumed by the sun light, and

in this light there is no coming and going. This light is naturally

present. Similarly for illuminating this entire universe, there is

that essential Consciousness. Just like the Sun illumes all,

similarly for all fields the illuminator is the " knower of the

field " . All you have to know is that He (Supreme Consciousness) is

the illuminator of all. Whatever you may do, but that illumination

is there as IS. In this hall if some one comes and some one goes

away, if entire hall is completely filled up, then too, there will be

no change in the light. Even if it is completely empty, then too

there is no change in the light. That light (illumination) remains

as IS. Similiarly the illuminator of this entire Universe, remains

as IS. If the world does all kinds of activity or it does not. In

the day time all work gets done and at night all are sleeping and

resting, then too there is no difference in the

> illumination, and that light continues to illume the entire

Universe. It illumes the field and the knower of the field. It does

not create the light. When the Sun arrives, there is automatically

light. Sun is not generating any light, it has the natural tendency

and strength to illume. Similarly that Supreme Consciousness remains

as IS, at all times and eternally, and activities that takes place,

all take place in nature. It is that Supreme Consciousness that

illuminates all. And that illumination simply happens.

>

> Our essential state is naturally in that light (consciousness).

All beings are naturally established in that consciousness. But

instead we begin to consider the one that is being illumed as real.

We gave it (the one being illumed) a reality and we gave it

importance. This is the reason for bondage. The existence and

importance of the reality of all beings in nature has been given by

us. Therefore it is up to us to remove it. This has not been given

by God. It has been created by us.

>

> God's consciousness is equally present everywhere. This is a

simple and straightforward point. All fields are being illumed and

all that is illumed, we have given it a reality and importance, even

though in reality this illumination is not it's own. " Nasoto

vidhyate bhavah " " The unreal has no existence. " (Gita 2:16). It

never was, it will not remain afterwards and it is changing every

moment. At first, there was non-existence of the world (before

creation), then later, there will be non-existence of the world

(after destruction), and while it appears to be existing right now,

it too is constantly changing. It does not have an existence of it's

own. It is the existence of the illuminator that is giving it a

feeling of existence. That is all there is to it.

>

> God (Supreme Consciousness) is the illuminator of all. This is

the simple straight forward point. Only that consciousness IS. IT

is not the giver of the reality to all, IT is not the creator of

existence of all, IT simple IS. When one realizes the existence of

that one and only Supreme Consciousness, then one realizes that there

is only God. Not " All is God " " Vasudeva Sarvam " but only

God " Vasudeva " (Supreme Consciousness) .

>

> From Discourse in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji on October 2, 2004

at 5:00 a.m.

>

> Ram Ram

>

> For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami

Ramsukhdasji's website.

>

> http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org

[Guest guest]

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

 

This is how I have explained to myself the reality of multitude and

singularity of Consciousness. Part of the explanation will be

experiential but one has to admit part being intuitive as the

Reality in itself is not conceivable by the Mind, the best tool we

have!

 

Mind, to me, in this context, is experience of thoughts. Memory,

intellect and sense of separate self in us responds as thoughts-

feelings in situations. Being Conscious or consciously Being is the

ultimate experience we have in all situations, in which mind arises

as thoughts or feelings verblized as thoughts, conceiving different

objective knowledge, gross such as mountains, oceans, forests,

animals, etc or subtle such as beliefs, opinions, reactions etc.

 

Now suppose this Universe was always there as it is now and will be

in future. However it kept changing forms as is now changing

continuously. Before Big bang there cannot be absolute nothing, but

was existence in different shape and forms or even consciousness of

non-existence of objects. The apparant multitude is an experience of

Mind only as thoughts are divisive in nature. Mind can understand

objects by isolating objects of perception from Totality called

Universe. This is knowledge as Consciousness of different objects,

or Consciousness differentiated as objects conceived. So what we

call mutitude has reality only as Single Consciousness felt as

differentiated objects, just as water of Ocean appearing as

different waves.

 

If we admit multitude has its own reality in itself, apart from

perceiving, then also it is experienced only in terms of its

existence by being conscious or aware within us. Let us say that

multitude has outer reality and being conscious is our inner

reality. Can there be two reality independent of each other? The

intuitive answer seems like, it has to be just ONE reality. If

there were to be two Truths, then it is unresolvable, and conflict

will be eternal as to which one is more real or really real, etc.

Thus it is just single reality of being aware of multitude out

there, same as one Whole perception of inner reality appearing as

many outer in Consciousness. This One Being behind all multitude of

beings appearing in light of consciousness. This is perhaps why the

scripture tells us that Sat-Being is Chit-Consciousness and Chit is

Sat! This is more like all characters in a movie are just one light

of projector, everything being ONE light.

 

On a final note, this is not just some intellectual exercise, but

has far reaching consequences in daily life of Sadhaks, like some of

us on path of knowledge, who will be guided by such vision to act

appropriately as did Arjuna after hearing such truth from Vasudeva,

supreme Consciousness there IS!

 

Namaskaras... Pratap

 

(Pratap Bhatt)

 

-------------------------------

Dear Mike

Bhagwat Gita is wonderful to explain difference

amongst 'information' (smriti), 'knowledge' (zyan) and 'truth'

(satya). The empirical, evidence, history, sensory or experimental

data, memory, experience is all information. These are meant 'for

gross or physical or legal uses'. It talks about K G Misra or

identities or labels.

 

Knowledge is free from empiricism by becoming rational or

throretical model 'for predictive/ forcasting uses' such as physics,

chemistry which is 'nitya' or always existing, and talks in terms of

x, and y which takes different identities as they differently

manifest in reality or in history and are empirically known.

 

Satya is absense of a need of prediction as it is already known to

exist. All know it same way and no points of views exist, and this

universal knowledge inherent in in all knowledges (that predict) is

truth.

 

The journey from information to knowledge to truth is going deep

from manifested / voluntary consciousness into subtle subconscious.

This is svabhaav or involuntary consciousness or sub-consciousness.

 

regards

K G Misra

(Krishna Gopal)

 

Question regarding multitude and singularity of the MIND,

(CONSCIOUSNESS?).

 

In Indian scriptures, the though process (the mind) is considered to

be made of four components:

 

1. Manas – the mind that is responsible for communication with

the external world through the senses and relate the same to its

colleagues.

2. Buddhi – the intellect that is responsible to correlate the

memory (past experiences) and the current information from the mind

to evaluate the current situation as well as its potential impact on

the individual's life as such.

3. Ahankara – the ego that is responsible for providing the

sense of an identity to the individual system.

4. Chitta – the volition that is responsible to make decisions

and steer the individual system toward any action.

 

The thought process as well as its components come into existence in

one's cognition in terms of thoughts which are composed of the five

sensory signals. Naturally, they are subjected to perpetual variance

since the sense signals change perpetually:

 

||Indriyanam prithak bhavam udayaastamayou cha yat||

 

The thought process can not be monolithic as it had to perpetually

adapt with the changes around in its environment. Even the

apparently monolithic identity of a person is really not monolithic

in reality – if you observe your identity you will come to know that

it is nothing but a bunch of relations with your environment which

vary continuously. Also, the thought process cannot exist by itself

being completely dependent on the body. Again, it is subjected to be

related to the bodily changes as well. Therefore, I cannot consider

the thought process to be singular (monolithic) as such.

 

Every thought appear to be discrete in nature giving a perception of

singularity (a mathematical spike in brain signal) in the mind.

However, if the thoughts remain singular, they cannot relate to each

other. Therefore, the mind cannot be a singularity as such. The

thought process is provided with a continuity in-spite of its

multiplicity at the same time.

 

But, I do not consider that " The Consciousness " which is often used

to translate a Sanskrit terms called " Atman " or " Brahman " is

limited to any one of Manas, Buddhi, Ahankara and Chitta or to their

collective representation. It is not even the collective

representation of the thought process and the body. It is not even

the collective representation of all such clusters in the universe

put together. It is THAT monolithic substratum in which everything

is established in their integrity e.g. the invariant integrity on

which the perpetually variant thoughts are created, projected and

related. THAT includes all the variances in spite of being totally

invariant in itself. To give a gross example, consider the space. In

spite of all the apparent variance and discreteness in the objects

scattered in the space, the space remains continuous and invariant.

All the objects are established within that and that includes all

the objects as well. In fact the discrete objects gain the advantage

of continuity through this very monolithic space to establish

relations amongst themselves. The same space is provided to the

thoughts in terms of time to relate themselves. And, something else

provides the medium to relate these apparently exclusive internal

and external spaces to establish the continuity as such. Therefore,

The Consciousness cannot be individualized and restricted to a mind

or a body or any combination of matter-energy-mind clusters as such.

THAT remains everything that you mention and beyond being absolutely

undeterminable. That is why it is often referred as The Absolute

where al the existential relativity looses its presence.

 

THAT (The Consciousness) reveals multitude and singular from Itself

to one's perception and yet remains neither singular nor multitude

nor any other classification as such.

 

|| Na sandrishe tishthathi rupamasya | na chakshusha pashyati

kashchidainam ||

 

Everything " is " THAT and therefore nothing can " have " IT. Therefore,

all the efforts in determining what it could be remains futile.

 

|| Hrida manisha manasaabhiklriptah |

ya etadviduramritaste bhavanti ||

 

However everyone is THAT already. One has to just realize that and

simply " be " THAT, one's natural self. How can one be " natural self " ?

 

|| Yada panchaavatishthanthe gnyanani manasa saha |

Buddhishcha na vicheshatathe taamaahuh paramaam gatim ||

 

One can " be " oneself ONLY WHEN one's existential and cognitive

insistence is mitigated categorically.

 

Respects.

 

Naga Narayana.

 

 

 

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> I have watched brilliant men, arguing over the origins of the

> universe on TV.

> People getting tangled up with what was before. And how nature is

a

> ware zone.

> A technical technique I have used called Lissajous, will reveal one

> frequency among a multitude, simply by using the right reference. I

> think using the right reference can expose among the dross the

TRUTH.

> I don't believe modern western thinking will get there, unless

> courage is shown in the understanding that the intellect is a very

> long road.

> I am trying to be introspective, not intellectual.

> There is a question here, something to do with multitude and

> singularity of the MIND, (CONSCIOUSNESS?).

>

> Any insights based on the Gita ?

>

> Yours in respect,

>

> Mike

> (mike.keenor)

>

> > :Shree Hari:

> >

> > 1st April, 2008, Tuesday

> > Chaitra Krishna Dashami, Vikram Samvat 2064, Mangalvar

> >

> > Just like at present, this hall is illumed by the sun light,

and

> in this light there is no coming and going. This light is naturally

> present. Similarly for illuminating this entire universe, there is

> that essential Consciousness. Just like the Sun illumes all,

> similarly for all fields the illuminator is the " knower of the

> field " . All you have to know is that He (Supreme Consciousness) is

> the illuminator of all. Whatever you may do, but that illumination

> is there as IS. In this hall if some one comes and some one goes

> away, if entire hall is completely filled up, then too, there will

be

> no change in the light. Even if it is completely empty, then too

> there is no change in the light. That light (illumination) remains

> as IS. Similiarly the illuminator of this entire Universe, remains

> as IS. If the world does all kinds of activity or it does not. In

> the day time all work gets done and at night all are sleeping and

> resting, then too there is no difference in the

> > illumination, and that light continues to illume the entire

> Universe. It illumes the field and the knower of the field. It

does

> not create the light. When the Sun arrives, there is automatically

> light. Sun is not generating any light, it has the natural

tendency

> and strength to illume. Similarly that Supreme Consciousness

remains

> as IS, at all times and eternally, and activities that takes place,

> all take place in nature. It is that Supreme Consciousness that

> illuminates all. And that illumination simply happens.

> >

> > Our essential state is naturally in that light (consciousness).

> All beings are naturally established in that consciousness. But

> instead we begin to consider the one that is being illumed as real.

> We gave it (the one being illumed) a reality and we gave it

> importance. This is the reason for bondage. The existence and

> importance of the reality of all beings in nature has been given by

> us. Therefore it is up to us to remove it. This has not been

given

> by God. It has been created by us.

> >

> > God's consciousness is equally present everywhere. This is a

> simple and straightforward point. All fields are being illumed

and

> all that is illumed, we have given it a reality and importance,

even

> though in reality this illumination is not it's own. " Nasoto

> vidhyate bhavah " " The unreal has no existence. " (Gita 2:16). It

> never was, it will not remain afterwards and it is changing every

> moment. At first, there was non-existence of the world (before

> creation), then later, there will be non-existence of the world

> (after destruction), and while it appears to be existing right now,

> it too is constantly changing. It does not have an existence of

it's

> own. It is the existence of the illuminator that is giving it a

> feeling of existence. That is all there is to it.

> >

> > God (Supreme Consciousness) is the illuminator of all. This is

> the simple straight forward point. Only that consciousness IS. IT

> is not the giver of the reality to all, IT is not the creator of

> existence of all, IT simple IS. When one realizes the existence of

> that one and only Supreme Consciousness, then one realizes that

there

> is only God. Not " All is God " " Vasudeva Sarvam " but only

> God " Vasudeva " (Supreme Consciousness) .

> >

> > From Discourse in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji on October 2,

2004

> at 5:00 a.m.

> >

> > Ram Ram

> >

> > For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami

> Ramsukhdasji's website.

> >

> > http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org

>

[Guest guest]

Loving Divine,

Pranam.

The question is beautiful & the answers provided so far r also very

beautiful. So I've nothing new 2 say but as Mikeji mentioned -

trying to be introspective & understand it from Gitaji's

perspective, I'm going 2 provide few common examples to contemplate

on & perceive urself whether the Consciousness is singular or it

carries multitudeness.

 

* Power generator & transformers: the key here is power. R u

looking at the generator & transformers being external objects or r

u looking at the same electric power flowing within them?

* Ocean and waves: key is water. while looking at the ocean &

waves, is your attention towards water being the same in them?

* Gold & gold ornaments: key = gold. when looking at ornaments, r u

think'g of essence being gold or r u think'g about size & shapes?

* Earth/dust/soil (mitti) & earthen pots: key = earth (mitti). is

ur focus on pots' design & usefulness or is it on all being

earth/dust?

* Space & mountains-vallies-houses-bunkers: key = omnipresent

space. Do u c mountains, vallies, houses, bunkers or do u see

undivided, all pervading one space? Space can not be cut, burnt,

made wet, or dried out, it just IS, period. Everything, the entire

universe exist in space, in other words, even so called space exist

in space. But, do you feel/see/hear/smell/taste all pervasive space

with you senses? Even though space is outside and within you - in

your mouth, eyes, nose, skin, ear but u can not. R u even conscious

or aware of the existence of this space when you perform your daily

activities? Do u recognize that without space nothing is possible

for u? Do u give credit or express gratitude towards it at all?

The very basic thing (it is still a thing, yet, our senses fail 2

recognize it!) of our life has been forgotten! Is space singular?

Is space in all of us carry multitudeness?

* Now contemplate on Consciousness/Cosmic Mind/Brahman/God/Krishna

or Christ consciousness/Life energy - praana... IT is subtler then

the space & is the essence of our being...!!! Please study BG 2:23

(nainam chindanti...), and entire BG chapter 10

* Life energy (praana/soul) & Humans-animals-birds (bhuta): key =

soul. when u look at bhuta do u think of 'em as separate beings or

u r one with them telling urself, 'aahaa...! they all have the soul,

the same soul that is in me... so they and I r one!' (BG:

mamaivansho jiva loke...)

 

What is the common denominator, the essence, in all of our

existence? We just need to divert our attention towards the right

thing. If we are busy looking at the size, shape, design, beauty,

etc., we can never get to the essence. So in multitude it is the

same in singularity it is the same and without singularity it is the

same! Hope this helps...

 

humble regards,

always at Thy Divine Feet

 

Manjula Patel

---

Dear Sadak,

Mind, body and the intellect aligned on God is Oneness. That person

liberates from cycle of birth and death. +

" Refer lines from Kayendri Vachaa---- "

B.Sathyanarayan

 

---

Dear khagah (fellow travellers in space)

I have to write on the logical sequences of consciousness in

response to Naga ji.

 

Life force (Praana) is sankalp energy i.e., it creates Manah (mind)

or involuntary conciousness or sub-consciousness. Praana (life

force) is breath which if stopped, life ceases. It is not dependent

on buddhi (intellect) or senses because in sleep state all senses

and buddhi (intellect) are at rest while manah (mind) and praan

(life force) remains alive and reproduces itself next day.

 

Manah and praan are like sankalp and energy interwoven together.

Manah is swabhaav or independent nature which can take any body,

place and time to start living. This decision of manah is called

Ichha (desires).

Iccha produces the physical body with co-operation of Devta for

different sensory faculties. Eyes from agni/sun, nose/smell from

wind, taste from water, ear from sound/sky, touch/ friction/heat

from earth.

 

The body when born has manah, praan and sensory faculties. But Praan

+manah finds it too difficult to manage these siblings and their

activities. It then appoints a manager called Buddhi. Buddhi is not

a decision maker but it investigates into reality and produces

different analyses using records of experience, information and

memory. These resources of buddhi is called Chitta. Cittha is

picture or drawing, and it is physical reality. Praan is manah

interwovn with life energy. Buddhi is instrument of understanding

(bodh). These all including Praan (universal ocean of awareness) ,

Manah (tributaries of sub consciousness), Buddhi (localized

voluntary consciousness) and Ahankaar (localized body, and senses)

and Chitta (localized resources of memory, experience and

information).

 

Mat CHITTAH (resources of reality, smriti) Mad Gatah PRAANA

(sankalp+energy), BODH (buddhi, intellect) yantah parasparam;

KATHAYANASHCH (sensory body) maam nityam tushyati cha ramanti cha

 

Bhagwat Gita across its entire length writes each of these at its

position. Sri Krishna says that I have spoken it (bhagwat Gita) in

the begining of the Srishti to Manu and then to Ishwaku. This means,

not beginning of historical ideas of the universe but begining of

consciosness of the self. Universe is imaginary and all inside it

is said as Chitta. It is not shristi. After I was born, the senses

come to exist and from senses come time-space and then information,

and universe of family, friends, sciences, history etc is a part of

that information. Sri Krishna does not say srishtii as historical

existence but exisence of the sankalp or praan.

 

Best regards

K G

(Krishna Gopal)

-

It is our sincere request to please also include the English meaning

of Sanskrit words. it will benefit sadhak immensely since there are

many sadhaks that have limited knowledge of sanskrit.

 

Thank you,

From Moderator

-

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

>

> This is how I have explained to myself the reality of multitude

and

> singularity of Consciousness. Part of the explanation will be

> experiential but one has to admit part being intuitive as the

> Reality in itself is not conceivable by the Mind, the best tool we

> have!

>

> Mind, to me, in this context, is experience of thoughts. Memory,

> intellect and sense of separate self in us responds as thoughts-

> feelings in situations. Being Conscious or consciously Being is

the

> ultimate experience we have in all situations, in which mind

arises

> as thoughts or feelings verblized as thoughts, conceiving

different

> objective knowledge, gross such as mountains, oceans, forests,

> animals, etc or subtle such as beliefs, opinions, reactions etc.

>

> Now suppose this Universe was always there as it is now and will

be

> in future. However it kept changing forms as is now changing

> continuously. Before Big bang there cannot be absolute nothing,

but

> was existence in different shape and forms or even consciousness

of

> non-existence of objects. The apparant multitude is an experience

of

> Mind only as thoughts are divisive in nature. Mind can understand

> objects by isolating objects of perception from Totality called

> Universe. This is knowledge as Consciousness of different objects,

> or Consciousness differentiated as objects conceived. So what we

> call mutitude has reality only as Single Consciousness felt as

> differentiated objects, just as water of Ocean appearing as

> different waves.

>

> If we admit multitude has its own reality in itself, apart from

> perceiving, then also it is experienced only in terms of its

> existence by being conscious or aware within us. Let us say that

> multitude has outer reality and being conscious is our inner

> reality. Can there be two reality independent of each other? The

> intuitive answer seems like, it has to be just ONE reality. If

> there were to be two Truths, then it is unresolvable, and conflict

> will be eternal as to which one is more real or really real, etc.

> Thus it is just single reality of being aware of multitude out

> there, same as one Whole perception of inner reality appearing as

> many outer in Consciousness. This One Being behind all multitude

of

> beings appearing in light of consciousness. This is perhaps why

the

> scripture tells us that Sat-Being is Chit-Consciousness and Chit

is

> Sat! This is more like all characters in a movie are just one

light

> of projector, everything being ONE light.

>

> On a final note, this is not just some intellectual exercise, but

> has far reaching consequences in daily life of Sadhaks, like some

of

> us on path of knowledge, who will be guided by such vision to act

> appropriately as did Arjuna after hearing such truth from

Vasudeva,

> supreme Consciousness there IS!

>

> Namaskaras... Pratap

>

> (Pratap Bhatt)

>

> -------------------------------

> Dear Mike

> Bhagwat Gita is wonderful to explain difference

> amongst 'information' (smriti), 'knowledge' (zyan) and 'truth'

> (satya). The empirical, evidence, history, sensory or experimental

> data, memory, experience is all information. These are meant 'for

> gross or physical or legal uses'. It talks about K G Misra or

> identities or labels.

>

> Knowledge is free from empiricism by becoming rational or

> throretical model 'for predictive/ forcasting uses' such as

physics,

> chemistry which is 'nitya' or always existing, and talks in terms

of

> x, and y which takes different identities as they differently

> manifest in reality or in history and are empirically known.

>

> Satya is absense of a need of prediction as it is already known to

> exist. All know it same way and no points of views exist, and this

> universal knowledge inherent in in all knowledges (that predict)

is

> truth.

>

> The journey from information to knowledge to truth is going deep

> from manifested / voluntary consciousness into subtle

subconscious.

> This is svabhaav or involuntary consciousness or sub-

consciousness.

>

> regards

> K G Misra

> (Krishna Gopal)

>

> Question regarding multitude and singularity of the MIND,

> (CONSCIOUSNESS?).

>

> In Indian scriptures, the though process (the mind) is considered

to

> be made of four components:

>

> 1. Manas – the mind that is responsible for communication with

> the external world through the senses and relate the same to its

> colleagues.

> 2. Buddhi – the intellect that is responsible to correlate the

> memory (past experiences) and the current information from the mind

> to evaluate the current situation as well as its potential impact

on

> the individual's life as such.

> 3. Ahankara – the ego that is responsible for providing the

> sense of an identity to the individual system.

> 4. Chitta – the volition that is responsible to make decisions

> and steer the individual system toward any action.

>

> The thought process as well as its components come into existence

in

> one's cognition in terms of thoughts which are composed of the five

> sensory signals. Naturally, they are subjected to perpetual

variance

> since the sense signals change perpetually:

>

> ||Indriyanam prithak bhavam udayaastamayou cha yat||

>

> The thought process can not be monolithic as it had to perpetually

> adapt with the changes around in its environment. Even the

> apparently monolithic identity of a person is really not monolithic

> in reality – if you observe your identity you will come to know

that

> it is nothing but a bunch of relations with your environment which

> vary continuously. Also, the thought process cannot exist by itself

> being completely dependent on the body. Again, it is subjected to

be

> related to the bodily changes as well. Therefore, I cannot consider

> the thought process to be singular (monolithic) as such.

>

> Every thought appear to be discrete in nature giving a perception

of

> singularity (a mathematical spike in brain signal) in the mind.

> However, if the thoughts remain singular, they cannot relate to

each

> other. Therefore, the mind cannot be a singularity as such. The

> thought process is provided with a continuity in-spite of its

> multiplicity at the same time.

>

> But, I do not consider that " The Consciousness " which is often used

> to translate a Sanskrit terms called " Atman " or " Brahman " is

> limited to any one of Manas, Buddhi, Ahankara and Chitta or to

their

> collective representation. It is not even the collective

> representation of the thought process and the body. It is not even

> the collective representation of all such clusters in the universe

> put together. It is THAT monolithic substratum in which everything

> is established in their integrity e.g. the invariant integrity on

> which the perpetually variant thoughts are created, projected and

> related. THAT includes all the variances in spite of being totally

> invariant in itself. To give a gross example, consider the space.

In

> spite of all the apparent variance and discreteness in the objects

> scattered in the space, the space remains continuous and invariant.

> All the objects are established within that and that includes all

> the objects as well. In fact the discrete objects gain the

advantage

> of continuity through this very monolithic space to establish

> relations amongst themselves. The same space is provided to the

> thoughts in terms of time to relate themselves. And, something else

> provides the medium to relate these apparently exclusive internal

> and external spaces to establish the continuity as such. Therefore,

> The Consciousness cannot be individualized and restricted to a mind

> or a body or any combination of matter-energy-mind clusters as

such.

> THAT remains everything that you mention and beyond being

absolutely

> undeterminable. That is why it is often referred as The Absolute

> where al the existential relativity looses its presence.

>

> THAT (The Consciousness) reveals multitude and singular from Itself

> to one's perception and yet remains neither singular nor multitude

> nor any other classification as such.

>

> || Na sandrishe tishthathi rupamasya | na chakshusha pashyati

> kashchidainam ||

>

> Everything " is " THAT and therefore nothing can " have " IT.

Therefore,

> all the efforts in determining what it could be remains futile.

>

> || Hrida manisha manasaabhiklriptah |

> ya etadviduramritaste bhavanti ||

>

> However everyone is THAT already. One has to just realize that and

> simply " be " THAT, one's natural self. How can one be " natural

self " ?

>

> || Yada panchaavatishthanthe gnyanani manasa saha |

> Buddhishcha na vicheshatathe taamaahuh paramaam gatim ||

>

> One can " be " oneself ONLY WHEN one's existential and cognitive

> insistence is mitigated categorically.

>

> Respects.

>

> Naga Narayana.

>

>

>

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > I have watched brilliant men, arguing over the origins of the

> > universe on TV.

> > People getting tangled up with what was before. And how nature

is

> a

> > ware zone.

> > A technical technique I have used called Lissajous, will reveal

one

> > frequency among a multitude, simply by using the right

reference. I

> > think using the right reference can expose among the dross the

> TRUTH.

> > I don't believe modern western thinking will get there, unless

> > courage is shown in the understanding that the intellect is a

very

> > long road.

> > I am trying to be introspective, not intellectual.

> > There is a question here, something to do with multitude and

> > singularity of the MIND, (CONSCIOUSNESS?).

> >

> > Any insights based on the Gita ?

> >

> > Yours in respect,

> >

> > Mike

> > (mike.keenor)

> >

> > > :Shree Hari:

> > >

> > > 1st April, 2008, Tuesday

> > > Chaitra Krishna Dashami, Vikram Samvat 2064, Mangalvar

> > >

> > > Just like at present, this hall is illumed by the sun light,

> and

> > in this light there is no coming and going. This light is

naturally

> > present. Similarly for illuminating this entire universe, there

is

> > that essential Consciousness. Just like the Sun illumes all,

> > similarly for all fields the illuminator is the " knower of the

> > field " . All you have to know is that He (Supreme Consciousness)

is

> > the illuminator of all. Whatever you may do, but that

illumination

> > is there as IS. In this hall if some one comes and some one goes

> > away, if entire hall is completely filled up, then too, there

will

> be

> > no change in the light. Even if it is completely empty, then too

> > there is no change in the light. That light (illumination)

remains

> > as IS. Similiarly the illuminator of this entire Universe,

remains

> > as IS. If the world does all kinds of activity or it does not.

In

> > the day time all work gets done and at night all are sleeping and

> > resting, then too there is no difference in the

> > > illumination, and that light continues to illume the entire

> > Universe. It illumes the field and the knower of the field. It

> does

> > not create the light. When the Sun arrives, there is

automatically

> > light. Sun is not generating any light, it has the natural

> tendency

> > and strength to illume. Similarly that Supreme Consciousness

> remains

> > as IS, at all times and eternally, and activities that takes

place,

> > all take place in nature. It is that Supreme Consciousness that

> > illuminates all. And that illumination simply happens.

> > >

> > > Our essential state is naturally in that light

(consciousness).

> > All beings are naturally established in that consciousness. But

> > instead we begin to consider the one that is being illumed as

real.

> > We gave it (the one being illumed) a reality and we gave it

> > importance. This is the reason for bondage. The existence and

> > importance of the reality of all beings in nature has been given

by

> > us. Therefore it is up to us to remove it. This has not been

> given

> > by God. It has been created by us.

> > >

> > > God's consciousness is equally present everywhere. This is a

> > simple and straightforward point. All fields are being illumed

> and

> > all that is illumed, we have given it a reality and importance,

> even

> > though in reality this illumination is not it's own. " Nasoto

> > vidhyate bhavah " " The unreal has no existence. " (Gita 2:16).

It

> > never was, it will not remain afterwards and it is changing every

> > moment. At first, there was non-existence of the world (before

> > creation), then later, there will be non-existence of the world

> > (after destruction), and while it appears to be existing right

now,

> > it too is constantly changing. It does not have an existence of

> it's

> > own. It is the existence of the illuminator that is giving it a

> > feeling of existence. That is all there is to it.

> > >

> > > God (Supreme Consciousness) is the illuminator of all. This

is

> > the simple straight forward point. Only that consciousness IS.

IT

> > is not the giver of the reality to all, IT is not the creator of

> > existence of all, IT simple IS. When one realizes the existence

of

> > that one and only Supreme Consciousness, then one realizes that

> there

> > is only God. Not " All is God " " Vasudeva Sarvam " but only

> > God " Vasudeva " (Supreme Consciousness) .

> > >

> > > From Discourse in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji on October 2,

> 2004

> > at 5:00 a.m.

> > >

> > > Ram Ram

> > >

> > > For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami

> > Ramsukhdasji's website.

> > >

> > > http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It is important for Sadhaks -

 

It is not the complexities of Antahkarana (mind, intellect and ego-

collectively called Chitta) or as to how they function. They change

constantly and never remain the same the next moment. More important

is our recognition of them. Our perception regarding them. Our

getting or not getting impacted by them. The fact is that we have no

correlation - naturewise or elementwise or objectwise or for that

matter anywise with them. That we assume a corelation is the cause

of BONDAGE and all sufferings. Our sole aim should be to disconnect

with them. We will not be able to comprehend them. They are totally

different stuff. When we have to disassociate what difference does

it make as to. How they are. They are part of nature always

changing. We are part of God never changing. They are temporary, we

are permanent. They are perishable , we are imperishable. They are

slaves and we are masters. Their goal is to wander in the world

naturally because they belong to the world while our goal is to

disconnect with the world naturally because we do not belong to the

world. They have no capacity to reach God. We have that capacity. We

should use them for worldly deeds as we use pen for writing and

ignore them when divine object is persued just as we ignore pen when

we eat.

 

Once our correlation or the lack thereof with Antahkarana

(mind,intellect,ego etc) is clear - let us now talk

about " consciousness " in the terms of Hindu scriptures " SAT " _

existence. Again no research is needed there.

 

First " existence " is independent of mind, intellect, ego, Chitta

etc. It is crystal clear because we live and exist even when these

elements are not existing. Example - Deep Sleep every day. The

element which remains in deep sleep is SELF, that is "

consciousness " , that is " existence " , that is " Sat " . He who existed

when the body -gross, subtle and causal - was sleeping only can say

in the morning " I had sound sleep yesterday " . That " existence " ,

that " self " is not a subject matter of any proof or debate

or " knowing " . It is self proven, it is obvious, it is doubtless, it

is " knowledge " in itself. Hence it is " Chitta " . (Chitta referred

here is different from when it is referred as subtle body). There is

no pain in deep sleep, in " self " ,in " existence " ,there is pure

bliss. Hence " self " is also " Ananda " . So you are " Satcidananda "

yourself. You are God yourself.

 

It is only that when you got entangled with the nature I.e. With the

world, the body, the mind etc,you are suffering. You are " Chetan "

(existing), " Amal " (stainless, faultless) and " sahaj sukh raashi " (

happiness itself, blissful by the very form of yourself) and you

are " ishwar ansha " ( part of God and only God - part of nothing else

except God_ not a part of nature at all) and you are " avinashi " (

imperishable, permanent, indestructible)! That is what you are O Son

of God!

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Vyas, N B

 

-

 

 

, " sadhak_insight "

<sadhak_insight wrote:

>

> Loving Divine,

> Pranam.

> The question is beautiful & the answers provided so far r also

very

> beautiful. So I've nothing new 2 say but as Mikeji mentioned -

> trying to be introspective & understand it from Gitaji's

> perspective, I'm going 2 provide few common examples to

contemplate

> on & perceive urself whether the Consciousness is singular or it

> carries multitudeness.

>

> * Power generator & transformers: the key here is power. R u

> looking at the generator & transformers being external objects or

r

> u looking at the same electric power flowing within them?

> * Ocean and waves: key is water. while looking at the ocean &

> waves, is your attention towards water being the same in them?

> * Gold & gold ornaments: key = gold. when looking at ornaments, r

u

> think'g of essence being gold or r u think'g about size & shapes?

> * Earth/dust/soil (mitti) & earthen pots: key = earth (mitti). is

> ur focus on pots' design & usefulness or is it on all being

> earth/dust?

> * Space & mountains-vallies-houses-bunkers: key = omnipresent

> space. Do u c mountains, vallies, houses, bunkers or do u see

> undivided, all pervading one space? Space can not be cut, burnt,

> made wet, or dried out, it just IS, period. Everything, the

entire

> universe exist in space, in other words, even so called space

exist

> in space. But, do you feel/see/hear/smell/taste all pervasive

space

> with you senses? Even though space is outside and within you - in

> your mouth, eyes, nose, skin, ear but u can not. R u even

conscious

> or aware of the existence of this space when you perform your

daily

> activities? Do u recognize that without space nothing is possible

> for u? Do u give credit or express gratitude towards it at all?

> The very basic thing (it is still a thing, yet, our senses fail 2

> recognize it!) of our life has been forgotten! Is space

singular?

> Is space in all of us carry multitudeness?

> * Now contemplate on Consciousness/Cosmic Mind/Brahman/God/Krishna

> or Christ consciousness/Life energy - praana... IT is subtler

then

> the space & is the essence of our being...!!! Please study BG

2:23

> (nainam chindanti...), and entire BG chapter 10

> * Life energy (praana/soul) & Humans-animals-birds (bhuta): key =

> soul. when u look at bhuta do u think of 'em as separate beings

or

> u r one with them telling urself, 'aahaa...! they all have the

soul,

> the same soul that is in me... so they and I r one!' (BG:

> mamaivansho jiva loke...)

>

> What is the common denominator, the essence, in all of our

> existence? We just need to divert our attention towards the right

> thing. If we are busy looking at the size, shape, design, beauty,

> etc., we can never get to the essence. So in multitude it is the

> same in singularity it is the same and without singularity it is

the

> same! Hope this helps...

>

> humble regards,

> always at Thy Divine Feet

>

> Manjula Patel

> -

--

> Dear Sadak,

> Mind, body and the intellect aligned on God is Oneness. That

person

> liberates from cycle of birth and death. +

> " Refer lines from Kayendri Vachaa---- "

> B.Sathyanarayan

>

> -

--

> Dear khagah (fellow travellers in space)

> I have to write on the logical sequences of consciousness in

> response to Naga ji.

>

> Life force (Praana) is sankalp energy i.e., it creates Manah

(mind)

> or involuntary conciousness or sub-consciousness. Praana (life

> force) is breath which if stopped, life ceases. It is not

dependent

> on buddhi (intellect) or senses because in sleep state all senses

> and buddhi (intellect) are at rest while manah (mind) and praan

> (life force) remains alive and reproduces itself next day.

>

> Manah and praan are like sankalp and energy interwoven together.

> Manah is swabhaav or independent nature which can take any body,

> place and time to start living. This decision of manah is called

> Ichha (desires).

> Iccha produces the physical body with co-operation of Devta for

> different sensory faculties. Eyes from agni/sun, nose/smell from

> wind, taste from water, ear from sound/sky, touch/ friction/heat

> from earth.

>

> The body when born has manah, praan and sensory faculties. But

Praan

> +manah finds it too difficult to manage these siblings and their

> activities. It then appoints a manager called Buddhi. Buddhi is

not

> a decision maker but it investigates into reality and produces

> different analyses using records of experience, information and

> memory. These resources of buddhi is called Chitta. Cittha is

> picture or drawing, and it is physical reality. Praan is manah

> interwovn with life energy. Buddhi is instrument of understanding

> (bodh). These all including Praan (universal ocean of awareness) ,

> Manah (tributaries of sub consciousness), Buddhi (localized

> voluntary consciousness) and Ahankaar (localized body, and senses)

> and Chitta (localized resources of memory, experience and

> information).

>

> Mat CHITTAH (resources of reality, smriti) Mad Gatah PRAANA

> (sankalp+energy), BODH (buddhi, intellect) yantah parasparam;

> KATHAYANASHCH (sensory body) maam nityam tushyati cha ramanti

cha

>

> Bhagwat Gita across its entire length writes each of these at its

> position. Sri Krishna says that I have spoken it (bhagwat Gita) in

> the begining of the Srishti to Manu and then to Ishwaku. This

means,

> not beginning of historical ideas of the universe but begining of

> consciosness of the self. Universe is imaginary and all inside it

> is said as Chitta. It is not shristi. After I was born, the senses

> come to exist and from senses come time-space and then

information,

> and universe of family, friends, sciences, history etc is a part

of

> that information. Sri Krishna does not say srishtii as historical

> existence but exisence of the sankalp or praan.

>

> Best regards

> K G

> (Krishna Gopal)

> -

> It is our sincere request to please also include the English

meaning

> of Sanskrit words. it will benefit sadhak immensely since there

are

> many sadhaks that have limited knowledge of sanskrit.

>

> Thank you,

> From Moderator

> -

> , " sadhak_insight "

> <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

> >

> > This is how I have explained to myself the reality of multitude

> and

> > singularity of Consciousness. Part of the explanation will be

> > experiential but one has to admit part being intuitive as the

> > Reality in itself is not conceivable by the Mind, the best tool

we

> > have!

> >

> > Mind, to me, in this context, is experience of thoughts. Memory,

> > intellect and sense of separate self in us responds as thoughts-

> > feelings in situations. Being Conscious or consciously Being is

> the

> > ultimate experience we have in all situations, in which mind

> arises

> > as thoughts or feelings verblized as thoughts, conceiving

> different

> > objective knowledge, gross such as mountains, oceans, forests,

> > animals, etc or subtle such as beliefs, opinions, reactions etc.

> >

> > Now suppose this Universe was always there as it is now and will

> be

> > in future. However it kept changing forms as is now changing

> > continuously. Before Big bang there cannot be absolute nothing,

> but

> > was existence in different shape and forms or even consciousness

> of

> > non-existence of objects. The apparant multitude is an

experience

> of

> > Mind only as thoughts are divisive in nature. Mind can

understand

> > objects by isolating objects of perception from Totality called

> > Universe. This is knowledge as Consciousness of different

objects,

> > or Consciousness differentiated as objects conceived. So what we

> > call mutitude has reality only as Single Consciousness felt as

> > differentiated objects, just as water of Ocean appearing as

> > different waves.

> >

> > If we admit multitude has its own reality in itself, apart from

> > perceiving, then also it is experienced only in terms of its

> > existence by being conscious or aware within us. Let us say that

> > multitude has outer reality and being conscious is our inner

> > reality. Can there be two reality independent of each other? The

> > intuitive answer seems like, it has to be just ONE reality. If

> > there were to be two Truths, then it is unresolvable, and

conflict

> > will be eternal as to which one is more real or really real,

etc.

> > Thus it is just single reality of being aware of multitude out

> > there, same as one Whole perception of inner reality appearing

as

> > many outer in Consciousness. This One Being behind all multitude

> of

> > beings appearing in light of consciousness. This is perhaps why

> the

> > scripture tells us that Sat-Being is Chit-Consciousness and Chit

> is

> > Sat! This is more like all characters in a movie are just one

> light

> > of projector, everything being ONE light.

> >

> > On a final note, this is not just some intellectual exercise,

but

> > has far reaching consequences in daily life of Sadhaks, like

some

> of

> > us on path of knowledge, who will be guided by such vision to

act

> > appropriately as did Arjuna after hearing such truth from

> Vasudeva,

> > supreme Consciousness there IS!

> >

> > Namaskaras... Pratap

> >

> > (Pratap Bhatt)

> >

> > -------------------------------

> > Dear Mike

> > Bhagwat Gita is wonderful to explain difference

> > amongst 'information' (smriti), 'knowledge' (zyan) and 'truth'

> > (satya). The empirical, evidence, history, sensory or

experimental

> > data, memory, experience is all information. These are

meant 'for

> > gross or physical or legal uses'. It talks about K G Misra or

> > identities or labels.

> >

> > Knowledge is free from empiricism by becoming rational or

> > throretical model 'for predictive/ forcasting uses' such as

> physics,

> > chemistry which is 'nitya' or always existing, and talks in

terms

> of

> > x, and y which takes different identities as they differently

> > manifest in reality or in history and are empirically known.

> >

> > Satya is absense of a need of prediction as it is already known

to

> > exist. All know it same way and no points of views exist, and

this

> > universal knowledge inherent in in all knowledges (that predict)

> is

> > truth.

> >

> > The journey from information to knowledge to truth is going deep

> > from manifested / voluntary consciousness into subtle

> subconscious.

> > This is svabhaav or involuntary consciousness or sub-

> consciousness.

> >

> > regards

> > K G Misra

> > (Krishna Gopal)

> > --------------------------------

-

> > Question regarding multitude and singularity of the MIND,

> > (CONSCIOUSNESS?).

> >

> > In Indian scriptures, the though process (the mind) is

considered

> to

> > be made of four components:

> >

> > 1. Manas – the mind that is responsible for communication with

> > the external world through the senses and relate the same to its

> > colleagues.

> > 2. Buddhi – the intellect that is responsible to correlate the

> > memory (past experiences) and the current information from the

mind

> > to evaluate the current situation as well as its potential

impact

> on

> > the individual's life as such.

> > 3. Ahankara – the ego that is responsible for providing the

> > sense of an identity to the individual system.

> > 4. Chitta – the volition that is responsible to make decisions

> > and steer the individual system toward any action.

> >

> > The thought process as well as its components come into

existence

> in

> > one's cognition in terms of thoughts which are composed of the

five

> > sensory signals. Naturally, they are subjected to perpetual

> variance

> > since the sense signals change perpetually:

> >

> > ||Indriyanam prithak bhavam udayaastamayou cha yat||

> >

> > The thought process can not be monolithic as it had to

perpetually

> > adapt with the changes around in its environment. Even the

> > apparently monolithic identity of a person is really not

monolithic

> > in reality – if you observe your identity you will come to know

> that

> > it is nothing but a bunch of relations with your environment

which

> > vary continuously. Also, the thought process cannot exist by

itself

> > being completely dependent on the body. Again, it is subjected

to

> be

> > related to the bodily changes as well. Therefore, I cannot

consider

> > the thought process to be singular (monolithic) as such.

> >

> > Every thought appear to be discrete in nature giving a

perception

> of

> > singularity (a mathematical spike in brain signal) in the mind.

> > However, if the thoughts remain singular, they cannot relate to

> each

> > other. Therefore, the mind cannot be a singularity as such. The

> > thought process is provided with a continuity in-spite of its

> > multiplicity at the same time.

> >

> > But, I do not consider that " The Consciousness " which is often

used

> > to translate a Sanskrit terms called " Atman " or " Brahman " is

> > limited to any one of Manas, Buddhi, Ahankara and Chitta or to

> their

> > collective representation. It is not even the collective

> > representation of the thought process and the body. It is not

even

> > the collective representation of all such clusters in the

universe

> > put together. It is THAT monolithic substratum in which

everything

> > is established in their integrity e.g. the invariant integrity on

> > which the perpetually variant thoughts are created, projected and

> > related. THAT includes all the variances in spite of being

totally

> > invariant in itself. To give a gross example, consider the

space.

> In

> > spite of all the apparent variance and discreteness in the

objects

> > scattered in the space, the space remains continuous and

invariant.

> > All the objects are established within that and that includes all

> > the objects as well. In fact the discrete objects gain the

> advantage

> > of continuity through this very monolithic space to establish

> > relations amongst themselves. The same space is provided to the

> > thoughts in terms of time to relate themselves. And, something

else

> > provides the medium to relate these apparently exclusive internal

> > and external spaces to establish the continuity as such.

Therefore,

> > The Consciousness cannot be individualized and restricted to a

mind

> > or a body or any combination of matter-energy-mind clusters as

> such.

> > THAT remains everything that you mention and beyond being

> absolutely

> > undeterminable. That is why it is often referred as The Absolute

> > where al the existential relativity looses its presence.

> >

> > THAT (The Consciousness) reveals multitude and singular from

Itself

> > to one's perception and yet remains neither singular nor

multitude

> > nor any other classification as such.

> >

> > || Na sandrishe tishthathi rupamasya | na chakshusha pashyati

> > kashchidainam ||

> >

> > Everything " is " THAT and therefore nothing can " have " IT.

> Therefore,

> > all the efforts in determining what it could be remains futile.

> >

> > || Hrida manisha manasaabhiklriptah |

> > ya etadviduramritaste bhavanti ||

> >

> > However everyone is THAT already. One has to just realize that

and

> > simply " be " THAT, one's natural self. How can one be " natural

> self " ?

> >

> > || Yada panchaavatishthanthe gnyanani manasa saha |

> > Buddhishcha na vicheshatathe taamaahuh paramaam gatim ||

> >

> > One can " be " oneself ONLY WHEN one's existential and cognitive

> > insistence is mitigated categorically.

> >

> > Respects.

> >

> > Naga Narayana.

> >

> >

> > --------------------------------

-

> > , " sadhak_insight "

> > <sadhak_insight@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I have watched brilliant men, arguing over the origins of the

> > > universe on TV.

> > > People getting tangled up with what was before. And how nature

> is

> > a

> > > ware zone.

> > > A technical technique I have used called Lissajous, will

reveal

> one

> > > frequency among a multitude, simply by using the right

> reference. I

> > > think using the right reference can expose among the dross the

> > TRUTH.

> > > I don't believe modern western thinking will get there, unless

> > > courage is shown in the understanding that the intellect is a

> very

> > > long road.

> > > I am trying to be introspective, not intellectual.

> > > There is a question here, something to do with multitude and

> > > singularity of the MIND, (CONSCIOUSNESS?).

> > >

> > > Any insights based on the Gita ?

> > >

> > > Yours in respect,

> > >

> > > Mike

> > > (mike.keenor)

> > >

> > > > :Shree Hari:

> > > >

> > > > 1st April, 2008, Tuesday

> > > > Chaitra Krishna Dashami, Vikram Samvat 2064, Mangalvar

> > > >

> > > > Just like at present, this hall is illumed by the sun

light,

> > and

> > > in this light there is no coming and going. This light is

> naturally

> > > present. Similarly for illuminating this entire universe,

there

> is

> > > that essential Consciousness. Just like the Sun illumes all,

> > > similarly for all fields the illuminator is the " knower of the

> > > field " . All you have to know is that He (Supreme

Consciousness)

> is

> > > the illuminator of all. Whatever you may do, but that

> illumination

> > > is there as IS. In this hall if some one comes and some one

goes

> > > away, if entire hall is completely filled up, then too, there

> will

> > be

> > > no change in the light. Even if it is completely empty, then

too

> > > there is no change in the light. That light (illumination)

> remains

> > > as IS. Similiarly the illuminator of this entire Universe,

> remains

> > > as IS. If the world does all kinds of activity or it does

not.

> In

> > > the day time all work gets done and at night all are sleeping

and

> > > resting, then too there is no difference in the

> > > > illumination, and that light continues to illume the entire

> > > Universe. It illumes the field and the knower of the field.

It

> > does

> > > not create the light. When the Sun arrives, there is

> automatically

> > > light. Sun is not generating any light, it has the natural

> > tendency

> > > and strength to illume. Similarly that Supreme Consciousness

> > remains

> > > as IS, at all times and eternally, and activities that takes

> place,

> > > all take place in nature. It is that Supreme Consciousness

that

> > > illuminates all. And that illumination simply happens.

> > > >

> > > > Our essential state is naturally in that light

> (consciousness).

> > > All beings are naturally established in that consciousness.

But

> > > instead we begin to consider the one that is being illumed as

> real.

> > > We gave it (the one being illumed) a reality and we gave it

> > > importance. This is the reason for bondage. The existence and

> > > importance of the reality of all beings in nature has been

given

> by

> > > us. Therefore it is up to us to remove it. This has not been

> > given

> > > by God. It has been created by us.

> > > >

> > > > God's consciousness is equally present everywhere. This

is a

> > > simple and straightforward point. All fields are being

illumed

> > and

> > > all that is illumed, we have given it a reality and

importance,

> > even

> > > though in reality this illumination is not it's own. " Nasoto

> > > vidhyate bhavah " " The unreal has no existence. " (Gita

2:16).

> It

> > > never was, it will not remain afterwards and it is changing

every

> > > moment. At first, there was non-existence of the world (before

> > > creation), then later, there will be non-existence of the world

> > > (after destruction), and while it appears to be existing right

> now,

> > > it too is constantly changing. It does not have an existence

of

> > it's

> > > own. It is the existence of the illuminator that is giving it

a

> > > feeling of existence. That is all there is to it.

> > > >

> > > > God (Supreme Consciousness) is the illuminator of all.

This

> is

> > > the simple straight forward point. Only that consciousness

IS.

> IT

> > > is not the giver of the reality to all, IT is not the creator

of

> > > existence of all, IT simple IS. When one realizes the

existence

> of

> > > that one and only Supreme Consciousness, then one realizes

that

> > there

> > > is only God. Not " All is God " " Vasudeva Sarvam " but only

> > > God " Vasudeva " (Supreme Consciousness) .

> > > >

> > > > From Discourse in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji on October

2,

> > 2004

> > > at 5:00 a.m.

> > > >

> > > > Ram Ram

> > > >

> > > > For full online discourses in Hindi, please visit Swami

> > > Ramsukhdasji's website.

> > > >

> > > > http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org

> > >

> >

>