Guest guest Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Well, whatever you have said on 'attachment' holds water for the true seeker of truth. But, can you elighten us on two matters viz. our origin and the various creatures in evolution as per the Gita ? Does Gita cover any of these areas - Before being created as human beings who were we? After being born as human beings how did we accumulate the so-called sins if we are indeed part of Him and fresh in the human scheme of births? As per the Gita we reincarnate continously in order to cleanse ourselves to achieve Godhead. In the chain of evolution, how do we go back to the animal form based on our actions of the respective birth? And there being millions of creatures how do we fit into the respective creature form? If we have evolved from the smallest algae into the human form will the human form be re- transformed into a creature owing to sins? If that is so, are we to repeat the whole process of evolution or start from where we are put into? Being born as creatures again, do we carry with us the memories of our human form sins to remind us to be careful for the next birth? Is it because of this animals cannot communicate like human beings? Are we born again and again as human beings in different cultures and nations so that we can seek the truth? Does the gender of human birth be the same in all reincarnations? What is stated in the Gita? Can you explain, please. Raj (mahendra raj) ------------------------------- The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to substantiate your response. 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting sadhaka's time. 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other organizations. 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone number, address etc. 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual since the message is going to the entire group. 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed wherever possible. MODERATOR Ram Ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! I feel like expressing myself on the subject. As is natural in the beginning, all such and many more questions do arise as are asked by Raj ji. I can relate to them. My take on it is: First see that there are underlying assumptions in such questions about oneself being an individual autonomous human being including belief based on interpretation of what has been said or read about process of karmas and reincarnation etc. These assumptions on our part make us ask questions. So validity of such questions depends to a great extent on assumptions about oneself and the world on the part of questioner. In themselves they may not be formulated. My short answer is to investigate such assumptions and beliefs or notions, and literal interpretations feeding such ideas. Suppose we ask these questions: Am I the individual I believe I am? What is my proof that I am so and so apart from the belief? Am I really that which is born and going to die? Who re-incarnates if I am going to re-incarnate as such and such...? Am I the doer of deeds that are performed by this body-mind I call myself? Am I that Atman Scriptures talk about? What is the nature and experience? What is Reality? Such platform as this group, can be helpful, of course. Scriptures are a great resource as I understand. By having an intense longing to know the truth brings this truth to one in some mysterious form to one's door! Answers to questions raised by Raj ji, as I undesrand, may lie in knowing oneself beyond all assumptions, beliefs, notions, opinions, ideas, and so on! Thus I respectfully submit my reformulation of the questions! In another context we may try to answer in details! Namaskras.. Pratap (Pratap Bhatt) - We were stainless fragment of God at the beginning. We came into being because God was alone and he wanted to play. " Ekaki na ramate " ( God was getting bored alone)- Upanishads. We accumulated sins after being born as human beings because we forgot the rules of play and considered the body as ourselves. We established our own identity and aligned with the nature to enjoy it while our goal was to to remain impartial. We were here to play , there are rules for every sport. Here the play was eternal " HIDE AND SEEK " God got hidden and our role was to find him. We were given this world as stadium. This body is the vehicle given to search. You are playing foul if you consider any equipment given to you for playing as yours – in other words you incur a sin if you consider the body to be me or mine. You don't come back in this world because somebody wants you to come back. You come back because you yourself want to come back. Who dies without any desire does not comeback. There is no evolution theory of the type some scientists claim stated anywhere in the Hindu Scriptures. There is no need to repeat any process. This can be your last birth if you want. BUT DO YOU WANT? Vyas N.B Hello, Simply do your sadhana as Krishna says in Gita. " you will reach me " i.e. you realise your SELF and there ends the matter as there will be no more other (ego) to ask questions and only the pure , Self Effulgent " Sat, Chit , Ananda alone will exist and none else. Therefore, all other hypothetical questions become irrelevant as every one will be a Budha, the enlightened. homma Ramchander Homma - , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > Well, whatever you have said on 'attachment' holds water for the > true seeker of truth. > > But, can you elighten us on two matters viz. our origin and the > various creatures in evolution as per the Gita ? > > Does Gita cover any of these areas - > > Before being created as human beings who were we? > After being born as human beings how did we accumulate the so- called > sins if we are indeed part of Him and fresh in the human scheme of > births? As per the Gita we reincarnate continously in order to > cleanse ourselves to achieve Godhead. In the chain of evolution, how > do we go back to the animal form based on our actions of the > respective birth? And there being millions of creatures how do we > fit into the respective creature form? If we have evolved from the > smallest algae into the human form will the human form be re- > transformed into a creature owing to sins? If that is so, are we to > repeat the whole process of evolution or start from where we are put > into? Being born as creatures again, do we carry with us the > memories of our human form sins to remind us to be careful for the > next birth? Is it because of this animals cannot communicate like > human beings? Are we born again and again as human beings in > different cultures and nations so that we can seek the truth? Does > the gender of human birth be the same in all reincarnations? What is > stated in the Gita? > > Can you explain, please. > > Raj > (mahendra raj) > ------------------------------- > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts > related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to > substantiate your response. > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting > sadhaka's time. > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other > organizations. > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone > number, address etc. > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual > since the message is going to the entire group. > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if content > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to Sanskrit > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit bracketed > wherever possible. > > MODERATOR > Ram Ram > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 Evolution of life is an intellectual response to nature. When this 'change' is seen from outside by collecting empirical evidences, this is becoming physical sciences with a purpose to explain the changes occured; and the Giita explains 'sanatan dharma' or the constant process of the change. Sciences can only explain known things, and know-how of it but not those which are yet to be known. This means, the process of knowing is not included in sciences. Einsntein is half scientist and half yogi. By yogi, he began to know the unknown, and by scientist, he tried to explain by examples and experiments and using contemporary words to others in domain of sciences. By study of science, one cannot have evolution of himself but write books and archive of Darwin and librarian. None teaches knowing which is beyond sciences and is a basic to evolution. The 'knowing' is evolution, For example, in human class, Einstein is not equal to other human who do not know what Einstein know. A king and slaves both are human in design but differ in evolution of intellect. This process of 'knowing' or gyan is Bhagwat Gita. Within human, there are species and stages of evolution. If this canvas is extended, cows, birds and fish and human are equal by physical design with differing senory capability; but differ also in intellectual capacity. Bhagwat Gita does not appear to state that human as superior but 'bhoot' or 'dehabhimaani'. This means recognition of different body are certainly a matter of condition of living in nature, and not superior or inferior. Body is relevant for natural condition, and it responds like finest machine. But this is not priority in Bhagwat Gita. Sri Krishna has explained in first two chapters that death and life are like changes in cloth or house and actual person is never killed by sword or by fire. Death is big business because of the fear of it and it is natural. If people stop dying, they will be hated like non biodegradable plastics. Which design of body one wants depends on thoughts while leaving the current body. For example, if you leave a job as engineer and apply for job of general manager in another company, this is rebirth. You don't need to retain complex engineering in mind but only contain basic rational ability that can aply to organization. This thought will produce design of new body and new place for further journey of the life. This is all. Bhagwat Giita is seeing the change or evolution within, and is not a science of materials. regards K G (Krishna Gopal) - An Equation of Life and it's religion This universe, in truth, is nothing. There were no heaven and no hell, nor the same in existence at present. Every action has it's own repercussion. This was the comedy of the error with an amplifier, having the co– incident, that the life is originated in this universe. There was no sign of existence after the creation of earth. The sun was having its radiation on the newly created planets after disintegration. Thus the earth was also having the turmoil of uncertainty in the process. Gradually the heat transmitted in the atmosphere. There was the creation of the gases. The nitrogen, helium and ozone gases were emitting from the earth. There was the nuclear fusion and nuclear fission. The molecules were disintegrated into the hydrogen particles and likewise there was also the creation of oxygen from the ozone gases. After unification of the molecules of oxygen with hydrogen, the water came into existence in the form of the gases. There was a period of transmission of energy in the atmosphere. However, gradually the preservation of the heat could have only been regulated. The coverage was provided to the universe from the outer periphery of ozone layer on the outer side of the atmosphere. Thus by getting the protection through the outer radiation from the infra red and ultra violet rays, there was the cooling effect in the atmosphere. This process has gradually converted the steam of the water particles situated in the atmosphere to the condensation process. By having the rain of the water and other chemicals from the internal surface of the atmosphere, there was the accumulation of the water every where. However, subsequently due to the emission of the particles from the lower surface of the earth, there was again the vapor formation. These processes remain operative for thousands of millions years before when as a mere co-incidence, the water was accumulated in the ocean of the earth. There was no such rain as were in existence, but the mountains started from where the process of evolution generated. There was the alga formation on the mountains and ridges and similarly there was a jelly formation in the water due to friction of the molecules. Thus the live molecule was created in side the jelly like substance in the water and thereafter the formation of the ameba taken place on this earth. The theory of evolution of life is the subsequent process. The vital question for consideration for our human being is to the effect as to whether the same process is a mere co-incident at the time of the birth of an individual. There is the generating of the heat in the process of life when the idea is exchanged. These ideas ultimately become the process of reproduction. There is the combination of the molecule again in the similar process. Thereafter the creation of the zygote inside the ovary of the female. Thus if we consider the life being originated from the ocean, whether the penetration of the sperm in the egg is also the starting point of the theory of reproduction. Ultimately the life is converted into a reality when the living organism took place in the process. We forget that the existence of our life is similar to the creation of the universe. Thus we start thinking for our survival. The struggle is of no significance because it continue for some period and thereafter it vanishes from its origin and thereafter the human being realizes that his existence is for the time being. This was a mere co-incident that a particular `Y' chromosome was penetrated in the egg and meet with `X' chromosome. Thereafter the process of life started. The shape and the identity of the person are concentrated on particular genes. When our existence is of such a small molecule from where we can get ourselves being recognized with some identity. This is the illusion of life when we claim for the recognition of our existence. The creation of the false existence is a direct assault on the identity of the power that has created our life. Even if we deny taking into our identity, the very existence of God, but still the value of the life cannot be put to any doubt for always being a controlling factor over the living being. This is the starting point of our wisdom. The moment we give up to our intelligentsia through logical perceptions by converting it from analysis by observation, the reality of truth comes to the memory. This process ultimately lead to an individual from committing any sin as the repercussion of the same may be detrimental to one's own existence. No body will like to loose his own existence for the mere satisfaction of his egoistic nature. Thus ultimately we use to connect ourselves from some controlling power and thereafter the existence of God comes to our conscience. This is the ultimate truth of life. History of man is one long search for God. However, we cannot to the theologian's theory of God. Life is the image of God, which is essentially a spiritual being. If the equation of life is taken into consideration, there can be no doubt that the man cannot eternally remain forgetful of his spiritual nature. Then he will find out his self. Time is having three-dimensional Picture, in which, there are certain memories of the past having it's permanent impact on the way of thinking; the present as we have visualized it from such angle; and the future with our expectation to be fulfilled. Thus in this process, we may side-tracked from our inherent characteristics and may start challenging the time-honored customs. The reckless spirit of defiance of well-established sacred principle becomes the way of life. There is the open crusade against the religion. There is no religion equal to it's potential, in which, there may be compassion for the animals and birds, truthfulness in the behavior and love for the fellow being. Thus the religion is based on the philosophy of brotherhood and spiritual cult of life. The places, where there is the program organized to slaughter the animals, as that of giving the sacrifices to the deity, these are not the places of religion but these are slaughterhouses. I have known the truth, but you can not know it. This is the preaching of every prophet. There lies their greatness. Thus they bring down the highest truth to the door of every man but never allow it to reach to such man. This is the religion of life. The true religion, which may be achieved through spiritual knowledge, seeks the truths of the inner world. Bondage is of the mind, and freedom also is of the mind. A man is free if he constantly thinks and feels: I am a free soul. Life and death are in the mind of the man. Thus one should have a burning faith in God. He may feel that he has no bondage .He will follow the instruction of the God. YOGESH KUMAR SAXENA -------------------------------- Mahendraji raised few questions which arise in the mind of every aspirant particularly in the initial stages. I had earlier given basics in brief reg some questions. One question was that how to we become animals?Answer is that because we want to become by the habits we develop, by our alignment with nature and " gunas " as Gita terms .. We presume the body to be me and mine. We love body just as a child loves toys. What shall father do if the child wants toys? He will buy to please the child. We ourselves do that fully knowing the futility thereof. But the child does not know. Similarly our eternal father has created so many toys (bodies) because child loves the body more than anything else! Crawling bodies, swimming bodies, soft bodies, flying bodies, large bodies, colurful bodies, invisible bodies, You name it . There are 84 lac varieties available. If we love eating animals what shall we become? If we love cheating what is wrong if we become a spider? If we have a habit of accumulating money , if we are greedy the best way is to become honeybee or a snake. We want that trait in us to continue so it is continuing. The moment child gets tired, the moment he surrenders, the moment he calls father, the moment he realises the truth the play is over and the child is in the arms of Real mother.. The God. As simple as that. Sadhakas may give their views. Mahendraji .... Are you satisfied? There is no need to go anywhere except into the arms of Girdhar Gopal. Human birth was the first birth we took eons ago and this present human birth can be the last birth if you want. You must want that. You must realise that bodies do not give pleasure. You must seek your origin. You must surrender. You must pray and call the mother. She will come running. She is waiting for the child to call her. She is there wherever you are. Need is only to summon her but exclusively without any worldly motives. Jai Shree Krishna. Vyas,N.B -- , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! I feel like expressing myself on the subject. > > As is natural in the beginning, all such and many more questions do > arise as are asked by Raj ji. I can relate to them. > My take on it is: First see that there are underlying assumptions in > such questions about oneself being an individual autonomous human > being including belief based on interpretation of what has been said > or read about process of karmas and reincarnation etc. These > assumptions on our part make us ask questions. So validity of such > questions depends to a great extent on assumptions about oneself and > the world on the part of questioner. In themselves they may not be > formulated. > > My short answer is to investigate such assumptions and beliefs or > notions, and literal interpretations feeding such ideas. > > Suppose we ask these questions: > > Am I the individual I believe I am? What is my proof that I am so > and so apart from the belief? > > Am I really that which is born and going to die? > > Who re-incarnates if I am going to re-incarnate as such and such...? > > Am I the doer of deeds that are performed by this body-mind I call > myself? > > Am I that Atman Scriptures talk about? What is the nature and > experience? > > What is Reality? > > Such platform as this group, can be helpful, of course. Scriptures > are a great resource as I understand. > > By having an intense longing to know the truth brings this truth to > one in some mysterious form to one's door! > > Answers to questions raised by Raj ji, as I undesrand, may lie in > knowing oneself beyond all assumptions, beliefs, notions, opinions, > ideas, and so on! > > Thus I respectfully submit my reformulation of the questions! > > In another context we may try to answer in details! > > Namaskras.. Pratap > (Pratap Bhatt) > - > > We were stainless fragment of God at the beginning. We came into > being because God was alone and he wanted to play. " Ekaki na > ramate " ( God was getting bored alone)- Upanishads. We accumulated > sins after being born as human beings because we forgot the rules of > play and considered the body as ourselves. We established our own > identity and aligned with the nature to enjoy it while our goal was > to to remain impartial. We were here to play , there are rules for > every sport. Here the play was eternal " HIDE AND SEEK " God got > hidden and our role was to find him. We were given this world as > stadium. This body is the vehicle given to search. You are playing > foul if you consider any equipment given to you for playing as > yours – in other words you incur a sin if you consider the body to > be me or mine. You don't come back in this world because somebody > wants you to come back. You come back because you yourself want to > come back. Who dies without any desire does not comeback. There is > no evolution theory of the type some scientists claim stated > anywhere in the Hindu Scriptures. There is no need to repeat any > process. This can be your last birth if you want. BUT DO YOU WANT? > > Vyas N.B > > Hello, > Simply do your sadhana as Krishna says in Gita. " you will reach me " > i.e. you realise your SELF and there ends the matter as there will > be no more other (ego) to ask questions and only the pure , Self > Effulgent " Sat, Chit , Ananda alone will exist and none else. > Therefore, all other hypothetical questions become irrelevant as > every one will be a Budha, the enlightened. > > homma > Ramchander Homma > - > > > , " sadhak_insight " > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > Well, whatever you have said on 'attachment' holds water for the > > true seeker of truth. > > > > But, can you elighten us on two matters viz. our origin and the > > various creatures in evolution as per the Gita ? > > > > Does Gita cover any of these areas - > > > > Before being created as human beings who were we? > > After being born as human beings how did we accumulate the so- > called > > sins if we are indeed part of Him and fresh in the human scheme of > > births? As per the Gita we reincarnate continously in order to > > cleanse ourselves to achieve Godhead. In the chain of evolution, > how > > do we go back to the animal form based on our actions of the > > respective birth? And there being millions of creatures how do we > > fit into the respective creature form? If we have evolved from the > > smallest algae into the human form will the human form be re- > > transformed into a creature owing to sins? If that is so, are we > to > > repeat the whole process of evolution or start from where we are > put > > into? Being born as creatures again, do we carry with us the > > memories of our human form sins to remind us to be careful for the > > next birth? Is it because of this animals cannot communicate like > > human beings? Are we born again and again as human beings in > > different cultures and nations so that we can seek the truth? Does > > the gender of human birth be the same in all reincarnations? What > is > > stated in the Gita? > > > > Can you explain, please. > > > > Raj > > (mahendra raj) > > ------------------------------- > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts > > related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to > > substantiate your response. > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting > > sadhaka's time. > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other > > organizations. > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone > > number, address etc. > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual > > since the message is going to the entire group. > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if > content > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to > Sanskrit > > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit > bracketed > > wherever possible. > > > > MODERATOR > > Ram Ram > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Yogeshji has indeed captured the substance in the end. " History of the man is indeed long search for God " . How come? When God was feeling bored he wanted to play. Upanishads say " EKAKI NA RAMATE " . So He created us. We were then totally stainless and as good as God himself because essentially we were part of God only- pure consciousness, pure existence. We were to play. Play is HIDE AND SEEK. Every child even today irrespective of caste creed color and country learns this game first thing in life !The game was that God will vanish and we shall search for him. Now it is a rule of every sport that the the player shall be independently exercising his judgement. Hence we were given independence. The law is that you have independent powers then you should be responsible for the consequences thereof. You are to search God ! How do you do that. Some boundaries or some stadium is needed. The world is that stadium. The body , the mind are the vehicles. When these rules were framed some souls told God that they cant survive without him They must have exit options! If they are tired of playing and if God is missing then what? God agreed that if any player is tired , he can SURRENDER. As soon as He surrenders the game is over as far he is concerned. God takes over thereafter. Souls also wanted to ensure that God should not be far away. Hence God assured that He will be there wherever they are. Right inside them. Anywhere, everywhere, at all times! Then again we were afraid to venture. Now players may also get confused sometimes , may get disillusioned.They needed an advisor at their disposal. If players forget then also somebody should remind them. If they make mistake then some Umpire must point out the mistake! Hence every player has got CONSCIENCE ( VIVEKA) sitting right inside them, as representative of God! Your CONSCIENCE is the UMPIRE OR REFREE of this game That we do not heed to advices of this great advisor is our Ego and misfortune. Then again we were afraid to venture. What if emergent situations arise? God said CALL ME but ME ONLY and I shall be there.But a player should never forget the object. Object has to be play the game of HIDE AND SEEK. Object cannot be to develop attachment with the tools of the play. The object cannot be to forget the play , the rules and the advisor's calls . Then in every game there are fouls. To sin is a foul in this eternal game. You accumulate good and bad points in every game. Here in this game you accumulate PUNYA AND PAAPS. If you play well , you have heavens waiting for you . If you play bad there is Hell waiting for you, You wanted in the beginning that there must be something which should prompt you towards the God- forcefully. PEACE or the lack thereof prompts towards the God.. But alas! We forgot everything, we developed our own individual egos and identities and funnily developed the attachment with the bats, balls, pads, stumps ,the stadium i.e. with the tools of the game. We developed ME AND MINENESS with perishables. We forgot why we are there? Who are we? We stopped listening to the calls given by VIVEKA. We started giving more weightage to the mind and body and the funny objects of the world. And we are suffering. We are not peaceful. We are hankering after the worldly objects. If only We CALL GOD, if only We SURRENDER, if only We listen to our CONSCIENCE all problems will end right now. But ego is the obstacle! Jai Shree Krishna Vyas NB -- , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > > Evolution of life is an intellectual response to nature. When > this 'change' is seen from outside by collecting empirical > evidences, this is becoming physical sciences with a purpose to > explain the changes occured; and the Giita explains 'sanatan > dharma' or the constant process of the change. Sciences can only > explain known things, and know-how of it but not those which are yet > to be known. This means, the process of knowing is not included in > sciences. Einsntein is half scientist and half yogi. By yogi, he > began to know the unknown, and by scientist, he tried to explain by > examples and experiments and using contemporary words to others in > domain of sciences. By study of science, one cannot have evolution > of himself but write books and archive of Darwin and librarian. > None teaches knowing which is beyond sciences and is a basic to > evolution. > > The 'knowing' is evolution, For example, in human class, Einstein is > not equal to other human who do not know what Einstein know. A king > and slaves both are human in design but differ in evolution of > intellect. This process of 'knowing' or gyan is Bhagwat Gita. > Within human, there are species and stages of evolution. If this > canvas is extended, cows, birds and fish and human are equal by > physical design with differing senory capability; but differ also in > intellectual capacity. Bhagwat Gita does not appear to state that > human as superior but 'bhoot' or 'dehabhimaani'. This means > recognition of different body are certainly a matter of condition of > living in nature, and not superior or inferior. > > Body is relevant for natural condition, and it responds like finest > machine. But this is not priority in Bhagwat Gita. Sri Krishna has > explained in first two chapters that death and life are like changes > in cloth or house and actual person is never killed by sword or by > fire. Death is big business because of the fear of it and it is > natural. If people stop dying, they will be hated like non > biodegradable plastics. Which design of body one wants depends on > thoughts while leaving the current body. For example, if you leave a > job as engineer and apply for job of general manager in another > company, this is rebirth. You don't need to retain complex > engineering in mind but only contain basic rational ability that can > aply to organization. This thought will produce design of new body > and new place for further journey of the life. > > This is all. Bhagwat Giita is seeing the change or evolution within, > and is not a science of materials. > regards > K G > (Krishna Gopal) > - > An Equation of Life and it's religion > This universe, in truth, is nothing. There were no heaven and no > hell, nor the same in existence at present. Every action has it's own > repercussion. > This was the comedy of the error with an amplifier, having the co– > incident, that the life is originated in this universe. There was no > sign of existence after the creation of earth. The sun was having its > radiation on the newly created planets after disintegration. Thus the > earth was also having the turmoil of uncertainty in the process. > Gradually the heat transmitted in the atmosphere. There was the > creation of the gases. The nitrogen, helium and ozone gases were > emitting from the earth. There was the nuclear fusion and nuclear > fission. The molecules were disintegrated into the hydrogen particles > and likewise there was also the creation of oxygen from the ozone > gases. After unification of the molecules of oxygen with hydrogen, > the water came into existence in the form of the gases. There was a > period of transmission of energy in the atmosphere. However, > gradually the preservation of the heat could have only been > regulated. The coverage was provided to the universe from the outer > periphery of ozone layer on the outer side of the atmosphere. Thus by > getting the protection through the outer radiation from the infra red > and ultra violet rays, there was the cooling effect in the > atmosphere. This process has gradually converted the steam of the > water particles situated in the atmosphere to the condensation > process. By having the rain of the water and other chemicals from the > internal surface of the atmosphere, there was the accumulation of the > water every where. However, subsequently due to the emission of the > particles from the lower surface of the earth, there was again the > vapor formation. These processes remain operative for thousands of > millions years before when as a mere co-incidence, the water was > accumulated in the ocean of the earth. There was no such rain as were > in existence, but the mountains started from where the process of > evolution generated. There was the alga formation on the mountains > and ridges and similarly there was a jelly formation in the water due > to friction of the molecules. Thus the live molecule was created in > side the jelly like substance in the water and thereafter the > formation of the ameba taken place on this earth. The theory of > evolution of life is the subsequent process. > The vital question for consideration for our human being is to the > effect as to whether the same process is a mere co-incident at the > time of the birth of an individual. There is the generating of the > heat in the process of life when the idea is exchanged. These ideas > ultimately become the process of reproduction. There is the > combination of the molecule again in the similar process. Thereafter > the creation of the zygote inside the ovary of the female. Thus if we > consider the life being originated from the ocean, whether the > penetration of the sperm in the egg is also the starting point of the > theory of reproduction. Ultimately the life is converted into a > reality when the living organism took place in the process. We forget > that the existence of our life is similar to the creation of the > universe. Thus we start thinking for our survival. The struggle is of > no significance because it continue for some period and thereafter it > vanishes from its origin and thereafter the human being realizes that > his existence is for the time being. > This was a mere co-incident that a particular `Y' chromosome was > penetrated in the egg and meet with `X' chromosome. Thereafter the > process of life started. The shape and the identity of the person are > concentrated on particular genes. When our existence is of such a > small molecule from where we can get ourselves being recognized with > some identity. This is the illusion of life when we claim for the > recognition of our existence. The creation of the false existence is > a direct assault on the identity of the power that has created our > life. Even if we deny taking into our identity, the very existence of > God, but still the value of the life cannot be put to any doubt for > always being a controlling factor over the living being. > This is the starting point of our wisdom. The moment we give up to > our intelligentsia through logical perceptions by converting it from > analysis by observation, the reality of truth comes to the memory. > This process ultimately lead to an individual from committing any sin > as the repercussion of the same may be detrimental to one's own > existence. No body will like to loose his own existence for the mere > satisfaction of his egoistic nature. Thus ultimately we use to > connect ourselves from some controlling power and thereafter the > existence of God comes to our conscience. This is the ultimate truth > of life. > History of man is one long search for God. However, we cannot > to the theologian's theory of God. Life is the image of > God, which is essentially a spiritual being. If the equation of life > is taken into consideration, there can be no doubt that the man > cannot eternally remain forgetful of his spiritual nature. Then he > will find out his self. > Time is having three-dimensional Picture, in which, there are certain > memories of the past having it's permanent impact on the way of > thinking; the present as we have visualized it from such angle; and > the future with our expectation to be fulfilled. Thus in this > process, we may side-tracked from our inherent characteristics and > may start challenging the time-honored customs. The reckless spirit > of defiance of well-established sacred principle becomes the way of > life. There is the open crusade against the religion. There is no > religion equal to it's potential, in which, there may be compassion > for the animals and birds, truthfulness in the behavior and love for > the fellow being. Thus the religion is based on the philosophy of > brotherhood and spiritual cult of life. The places, where there is > the program organized to slaughter the animals, as that of giving the > sacrifices to the deity, these are not the places of religion but > these are slaughterhouses. > I have known the truth, but you can not know it. This is the > preaching of every prophet. There lies their greatness. Thus they > bring down the highest truth to the door of every man but never allow > it to reach to such man. This is the religion of life. The true > religion, which may be achieved through spiritual knowledge, seeks > the truths of the inner world. > Bondage is of the mind, and freedom also is of the mind. A man is > free if he constantly thinks and feels: I am a free soul. Life and > death are in the mind of the man. Thus one should have a burning > faith in God. He may feel that he has no bondage .He will follow the > instruction of the God. > > > YOGESH KUMAR SAXENA > > -------------------------------- > Mahendraji raised few questions which arise in the mind of every > aspirant particularly in the initial stages. I had earlier given > basics in brief reg some questions. One question was that how to we > become animals?Answer is that because we want to become by the > habits we develop, by our alignment with nature and " gunas " as Gita > terms .. > > We presume the body to be me and mine. We love body just as a child > loves toys. What shall father do if the child wants toys? He will > buy to please the child. We ourselves do that fully knowing the > futility thereof. But the child does not know. Similarly our eternal > father has created so many toys (bodies) because child loves the > body more than anything else! Crawling bodies, swimming bodies, soft > bodies, flying bodies, large bodies, colurful bodies, invisible > bodies, You name it . There are 84 lac varieties available. If we > love eating animals what shall we become? If we love cheating what > is wrong if we become a spider? If we have a habit of accumulating > money , if we are greedy the best way is to become honeybee or a > snake. We want that trait in us to continue so it is continuing. The > moment child gets tired, the moment he surrenders, the moment he > calls father, the moment he realises the truth the play is over and > the child is in the arms of Real mother.. The God. As simple as > that. Sadhakas may give their views. > > Mahendraji .... Are you satisfied? There is no need to go anywhere > except into the arms of Girdhar Gopal. Human birth was the first > birth we took eons ago and this present human birth can be the last > birth if you want. You must want that. You must realise that bodies > do not give pleasure. You must seek your origin. You must surrender. > You must pray and call the mother. She will come running. She is > waiting for the child to call her. She is there wherever you are. > Need is only to summon her but exclusively without any worldly > motives. Jai Shree Krishna. > > Vyas,N.B > > - - > , " sadhak_insight " > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! I feel like expressing myself on the > subject. > > > > As is natural in the beginning, all such and many more questions > do > > arise as are asked by Raj ji. I can relate to them. > > My take on it is: First see that there are underlying assumptions > in > > such questions about oneself being an individual autonomous human > > being including belief based on interpretation of what has been > said > > or read about process of karmas and reincarnation etc. These > > assumptions on our part make us ask questions. So validity of such > > questions depends to a great extent on assumptions about oneself > and > > the world on the part of questioner. In themselves they may not be > > formulated. > > > > My short answer is to investigate such assumptions and beliefs or > > notions, and literal interpretations feeding such ideas. > > > > Suppose we ask these questions: > > > > Am I the individual I believe I am? What is my proof that I am so > > and so apart from the belief? > > > > Am I really that which is born and going to die? > > > > Who re-incarnates if I am going to re-incarnate as such and > such...? > > > > Am I the doer of deeds that are performed by this body-mind I call > > myself? > > > > Am I that Atman Scriptures talk about? What is the nature and > > experience? > > > > What is Reality? > > > > Such platform as this group, can be helpful, of course. Scriptures > > are a great resource as I understand. > > > > By having an intense longing to know the truth brings this truth > to > > one in some mysterious form to one's door! > > > > Answers to questions raised by Raj ji, as I undesrand, may lie in > > knowing oneself beyond all assumptions, beliefs, notions, > opinions, > > ideas, and so on! > > > > Thus I respectfully submit my reformulation of the questions! > > > > In another context we may try to answer in details! > > > > Namaskras.. Pratap > > (Pratap Bhatt) > > -------------------------------- -- > > > > We were stainless fragment of God at the beginning. We came into > > being because God was alone and he wanted to play. " Ekaki na > > ramate " ( God was getting bored alone)- Upanishads. We accumulated > > sins after being born as human beings because we forgot the rules > of > > play and considered the body as ourselves. We established our own > > identity and aligned with the nature to enjoy it while our goal > was > > to to remain impartial. We were here to play , there are rules > for > > every sport. Here the play was eternal " HIDE AND SEEK " God got > > hidden and our role was to find him. We were given this world as > > stadium. This body is the vehicle given to search. You are playing > > foul if you consider any equipment given to you for playing as > > yours – in other words you incur a sin if you consider the body to > > be me or mine. You don't come back in this world because somebody > > wants you to come back. You come back because you yourself want to > > come back. Who dies without any desire does not comeback. There is > > no evolution theory of the type some scientists claim stated > > anywhere in the Hindu Scriptures. There is no need to repeat any > > process. This can be your last birth if you want. BUT DO YOU WANT? > > > > Vyas N.B > > -------------------------------- - > > Hello, > > Simply do your sadhana as Krishna says in Gita. " you will reach > me " > > i.e. you realise your SELF and there ends the matter as there will > > be no more other (ego) to ask questions and only the pure , Self > > Effulgent " Sat, Chit , Ananda alone will exist and none else. > > Therefore, all other hypothetical questions become irrelevant as > > every one will be a Budha, the enlightened. > > > > homma > > Ramchander Homma > > -------------------------------- -- > > > > > > , " sadhak_insight " > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > Well, whatever you have said on 'attachment' holds water for the > > > true seeker of truth. > > > > > > But, can you elighten us on two matters viz. our origin and the > > > various creatures in evolution as per the Gita ? > > > > > > Does Gita cover any of these areas - > > > > > > Before being created as human beings who were we? > > > After being born as human beings how did we accumulate the so- > > called > > > sins if we are indeed part of Him and fresh in the human scheme > of > > > births? As per the Gita we reincarnate continously in order to > > > cleanse ourselves to achieve Godhead. In the chain of evolution, > > how > > > do we go back to the animal form based on our actions of the > > > respective birth? And there being millions of creatures how do > we > > > fit into the respective creature form? If we have evolved from > the > > > smallest algae into the human form will the human form be re- > > > transformed into a creature owing to sins? If that is so, are we > > to > > > repeat the whole process of evolution or start from where we are > > put > > > into? Being born as creatures again, do we carry with us the > > > memories of our human form sins to remind us to be careful for > the > > > next birth? Is it because of this animals cannot communicate > like > > > human beings? Are we born again and again as human beings in > > > different cultures and nations so that we can seek the truth? > Does > > > the gender of human birth be the same in all reincarnations? > What > > is > > > stated in the Gita? > > > > > > Can you explain, please. > > > > > > Raj > > > (mahendra raj) > > > ------------------------------ - > > > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. > > > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: > > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their doubts > > > related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further > > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. > > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures to > > > substantiate your response. > > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas > > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, respecting > > > sadhaka's time. > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other > > > organizations. > > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as phone > > > number, address etc. > > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular individual > > > since the message is going to the entire group. > > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be posted. > > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if > > content > > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. > > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, youth, > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to > > Sanskrit > > > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit > > bracketed > > > wherever possible. > > > > > > MODERATOR > > > Ram Ram > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Dear Sadak, " EKAKI NA RAMATE " . Ekaki means alone. NA means No. Ramate means pleased /enjoyable /happy etc Being alone is not happiness or enjoyable. DID GOD SAY IT WAS HIM? Was God refering you or somebody? Strictly the Upanashid say, " being alone is not happiness " . We very easily find mistakes even with God. We living creatures never liked being alone along with HIM. We never liked loneliness. When you are alone: Dont you get bored. Dont you watch TV. Dont you go in search of trouble? Dont you go in search of friends? Dont you simply chat on phone or internet? Human body in deep sleep develops a whole new world of its own of so many pleasures/sorrows/pleasing sceans etc. Body was alone with all dreams. Only on awakening body realises it was Maya (dream) and nothing to do with it. Due to the dream neither the body nor the mind got changed. We created all the desires, cause and effects. We are rolling in it birth after birth, but never ever thought of contemplating in solitude about who we are. If we are really worried about all these pains and suffering (setting aside our pleasurable times, enjoyable times) then become like Buddha, Adi Sanakara, Gynaneswar, Tukaram, etc. Living in family are we detached like what Geetha says. Are we surrendering as Bagavan says? When in height of pleasure we dont think of sorrow. Sorrow comes now and then in mind asking KIM (Why). Saints discarded pleasures, wealth, groupism. Puranderadoss was called " Nava Koti Narayana " . Today that wealth would be trillions of gold. One stroke Puranderdas left everything behind went away to Panderipuram. He knew seeking GOD is highest goal of life and everything and everybody on earth disappears once Pranan stops. We have seen Pranan stopping anytime from level of baby in womb to older person. We carry the body burry or cremate, feel " this is all life " for few hours or days. Then back to the same square one. Yet blame GOD and everybody around us, as if we are realized souls. Have we blamed ourselves without comparing others. Never want to sit in solitude, never want to control tongue, feelings, pleasures etc leave controlling anger, desire, jealosy etc Try not asking questions, but find means/meathods and practice to reach divinity. Forget things around us, as it is like a movie (2 hours span). Whole life span, please dont make it a movie. B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------------- I would also like to share this finding 1986. In this year I determined that Darwins Model on Evolution was from his findings in India. He found the following well sung 'Hymn' Matysa; Kurma; Vhra; Nar singh; Baman a kaa Avatar A Lia Please forgive my Amskrit (American Sanskrit) Do you see ? Its clearly saying 1st The Fish to this planet - Matysa (fish) 2nd The Amphibian Kingdom - Kurma (turtle) 3rd The Boar - Pig - Mamalian Kingdom 4th Nar Singh - Man Lion(beast) - This was a tough one but after a few Lone Stars I fgiured it out. Man splits from the Primate kingdom 5th Baman - The dwarf (Twenty years to answer this) In 2006 it became clear. Men will not be smaller. This is poetry. Written for the mind that enjoys the challenge of the quest. OK enough of that Shakesparean Junk. What is a dwarf? Only a smaller version of man / from man. Say 1/2. What is half of man - A Clone. Cm'on guys this is genius. Ceptin Darwin couldn't figure that part out. Veda Shakti! Pndt Bud (The Weiser) Bhramin Deeno Sharma , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > Yogeshji has indeed captured the substance in the end. " History of > the man is indeed long search for God " . How come? When God was > feeling bored he wanted to play. Upanishads say " EKAKI NA RAMATE " . > So He created us. We were then totally stainless and as good as God > himself because essentially we were part of God only- pure > consciousness, pure existence. We were to play. Play is HIDE AND > SEEK. Every child even today irrespective of caste creed color and > country learns this game first thing in life !The game was that God > will vanish and we shall search for him. > > Now it is a rule of every sport that the the player shall be > independently exercising his judgement. Hence we were given > independence. The law is that you have independent powers then you > should be responsible for the consequences thereof. You are to > search God ! How do you do that. Some boundaries or some stadium is > needed. The world is that stadium. The body , the mind are the > vehicles. When these rules were framed some souls told God that > they cant survive without him They must have exit options! If they > are tired of playing and if God is missing then what? God agreed > that if any player is tired , he can SURRENDER. As soon as He > surrenders the game is over as far he is concerned. God takes over > thereafter. Souls also wanted to ensure that God should not be far > away. Hence God assured that He will be there wherever they are. > Right inside them. Anywhere, everywhere, at all times! Then again we > were afraid to venture. Now players may also get confused > sometimes , may get disillusioned.They needed an advisor at their > disposal. If players forget then also somebody should remind them. > If they make mistake then some Umpire must point out the mistake! > Hence every player has got CONSCIENCE ( VIVEKA) sitting right inside > them, as representative of God! Your CONSCIENCE is the UMPIRE OR > REFREE of this game That we do not heed to advices of this great > advisor is our Ego and misfortune. Then again we were afraid to > venture. What if emergent situations arise? God said CALL ME but ME > ONLY and I shall be there.But a player should never forget the > object. Object has to be play the game of HIDE AND SEEK. Object > cannot be to develop attachment with the tools of the play. The > object cannot be to forget the play , the rules and the advisor's > calls . Then in every game there are fouls. To sin is a foul in this > eternal game. You accumulate good and bad points in every game. Here > in this game you accumulate PUNYA AND PAAPS. If you play well , you > have heavens waiting for you . If you play bad there is Hell waiting > for you, You wanted in the beginning that there must be something > which should prompt you towards the God- forcefully. PEACE or the > lack thereof prompts towards the God.. > > But alas! We forgot everything, we developed our own individual egos > and identities and funnily developed the attachment with the bats, > balls, pads, stumps ,the stadium i.e. with the tools of the game. We > developed ME AND MINENESS with perishables. We forgot why we are > there? Who are we? We stopped listening to the calls given by > VIVEKA. We started giving more weightage to the mind and body and > the funny objects of the world. And we are suffering. We are not > peaceful. We are hankering after the worldly objects. If only We > CALL GOD, if only We SURRENDER, if only We listen to our CONSCIENCE > all problems will end right now. But ego is the obstacle! > > Jai Shree Krishna > > Vyas NB > > - - > , " sadhak_insight " > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > Evolution of life is an intellectual response to nature. When > > this 'change' is seen from outside by collecting empirical > > evidences, this is becoming physical sciences with a purpose to > > explain the changes occured; and the Giita explains 'sanatan > > dharma' or the constant process of the change. Sciences can only > > explain known things, and know-how of it but not those which are > yet > > to be known. This means, the process of knowing is not included in > > sciences. Einsntein is half scientist and half yogi. By yogi, he > > began to know the unknown, and by scientist, he tried to explain > by > > examples and experiments and using contemporary words to others > in > > domain of sciences. By study of science, one cannot have evolution > > of himself but write books and archive of Darwin and librarian. > > None teaches knowing which is beyond sciences and is a basic to > > evolution. > > > > The 'knowing' is evolution, For example, in human class, Einstein > is > > not equal to other human who do not know what Einstein know. A > king > > and slaves both are human in design but differ in evolution of > > intellect. This process of 'knowing' or gyan is Bhagwat Gita. > > Within human, there are species and stages of evolution. If this > > canvas is extended, cows, birds and fish and human are equal by > > physical design with differing senory capability; but differ also > in > > intellectual capacity. Bhagwat Gita does not appear to state that > > human as superior but 'bhoot' or 'dehabhimaani'. This means > > recognition of different body are certainly a matter of condition > of > > living in nature, and not superior or inferior. > > > > Body is relevant for natural condition, and it responds like > finest > > machine. But this is not priority in Bhagwat Gita. Sri Krishna has > > explained in first two chapters that death and life are like > changes > > in cloth or house and actual person is never killed by sword or by > > fire. Death is big business because of the fear of it and it is > > natural. If people stop dying, they will be hated like non > > biodegradable plastics. Which design of body one wants depends on > > thoughts while leaving the current body. For example, if you leave > a > > job as engineer and apply for job of general manager in another > > company, this is rebirth. You don't need to retain complex > > engineering in mind but only contain basic rational ability that > can > > aply to organization. This thought will produce design of new body > > and new place for further journey of the life. > > > > This is all. Bhagwat Giita is seeing the change or evolution > within, > > and is not a science of materials. > > regards > > K G > > (Krishna Gopal) > > -------------------------------- -- > > An Equation of Life and it's religion > > This universe, in truth, is nothing. There were no heaven and no > > hell, nor the same in existence at present. Every action has it's > own > > repercussion. > > This was the comedy of the error with an amplifier, having the co– > > incident, that the life is originated in this universe. There was > no > > sign of existence after the creation of earth. The sun was having > its > > radiation on the newly created planets after disintegration. Thus > the > > earth was also having the turmoil of uncertainty in the process. > > Gradually the heat transmitted in the atmosphere. There was the > > creation of the gases. The nitrogen, helium and ozone gases were > > emitting from the earth. There was the nuclear fusion and nuclear > > fission. The molecules were disintegrated into the hydrogen > particles > > and likewise there was also the creation of oxygen from the ozone > > gases. After unification of the molecules of oxygen with hydrogen, > > the water came into existence in the form of the gases. There was a > > period of transmission of energy in the atmosphere. However, > > gradually the preservation of the heat could have only been > > regulated. The coverage was provided to the universe from the outer > > periphery of ozone layer on the outer side of the atmosphere. Thus > by > > getting the protection through the outer radiation from the infra > red > > and ultra violet rays, there was the cooling effect in the > > atmosphere. This process has gradually converted the steam of the > > water particles situated in the atmosphere to the condensation > > process. By having the rain of the water and other chemicals from > the > > internal surface of the atmosphere, there was the accumulation of > the > > water every where. However, subsequently due to the emission of the > > particles from the lower surface of the earth, there was again the > > vapor formation. These processes remain operative for thousands of > > millions years before when as a mere co-incidence, the water was > > accumulated in the ocean of the earth. There was no such rain as > were > > in existence, but the mountains started from where the process of > > evolution generated. There was the alga formation on the mountains > > and ridges and similarly there was a jelly formation in the water > due > > to friction of the molecules. Thus the live molecule was created in > > side the jelly like substance in the water and thereafter the > > formation of the ameba taken place on this earth. The theory of > > evolution of life is the subsequent process. > > The vital question for consideration for our human being is to the > > effect as to whether the same process is a mere co-incident at the > > time of the birth of an individual. There is the generating of the > > heat in the process of life when the idea is exchanged. These ideas > > ultimately become the process of reproduction. There is the > > combination of the molecule again in the similar process. > Thereafter > > the creation of the zygote inside the ovary of the female. Thus if > we > > consider the life being originated from the ocean, whether the > > penetration of the sperm in the egg is also the starting point of > the > > theory of reproduction. Ultimately the life is converted into a > > reality when the living organism took place in the process. We > forget > > that the existence of our life is similar to the creation of the > > universe. Thus we start thinking for our survival. The struggle is > of > > no significance because it continue for some period and thereafter > it > > vanishes from its origin and thereafter the human being realizes > that > > his existence is for the time being. > > This was a mere co-incident that a particular `Y' chromosome was > > penetrated in the egg and meet with `X' chromosome. Thereafter the > > process of life started. The shape and the identity of the person > are > > concentrated on particular genes. When our existence is of such a > > small molecule from where we can get ourselves being recognized > with > > some identity. This is the illusion of life when we claim for the > > recognition of our existence. The creation of the false existence > is > > a direct assault on the identity of the power that has created our > > life. Even if we deny taking into our identity, the very existence > of > > God, but still the value of the life cannot be put to any doubt for > > always being a controlling factor over the living being. > > This is the starting point of our wisdom. The moment we give up to > > our intelligentsia through logical perceptions by converting it > from > > analysis by observation, the reality of truth comes to the memory. > > This process ultimately lead to an individual from committing any > sin > > as the repercussion of the same may be detrimental to one's own > > existence. No body will like to loose his own existence for the > mere > > satisfaction of his egoistic nature. Thus ultimately we use to > > connect ourselves from some controlling power and thereafter the > > existence of God comes to our conscience. This is the ultimate > truth > > of life. > > History of man is one long search for God. However, we cannot > > to the theologian's theory of God. Life is the image of > > God, which is essentially a spiritual being. If the equation of > life > > is taken into consideration, there can be no doubt that the man > > cannot eternally remain forgetful of his spiritual nature. Then he > > will find out his self. > > Time is having three-dimensional Picture, in which, there are > certain > > memories of the past having it's permanent impact on the way of > > thinking; the present as we have visualized it from such angle; and > > the future with our expectation to be fulfilled. Thus in this > > process, we may side-tracked from our inherent characteristics and > > may start challenging the time-honored customs. The reckless spirit > > of defiance of well-established sacred principle becomes the way of > > life. There is the open crusade against the religion. There is no > > religion equal to it's potential, in which, there may be compassion > > for the animals and birds, truthfulness in the behavior and love > for > > the fellow being. Thus the religion is based on the philosophy of > > brotherhood and spiritual cult of life. The places, where there is > > the program organized to slaughter the animals, as that of giving > the > > sacrifices to the deity, these are not the places of religion but > > these are slaughterhouses. > > I have known the truth, but you can not know it. This is the > > preaching of every prophet. There lies their greatness. Thus they > > bring down the highest truth to the door of every man but never > allow > > it to reach to such man. This is the religion of life. The true > > religion, which may be achieved through spiritual knowledge, seeks > > the truths of the inner world. > > Bondage is of the mind, and freedom also is of the mind. A man is > > free if he constantly thinks and feels: I am a free soul. Life and > > death are in the mind of the man. Thus one should have a burning > > faith in God. He may feel that he has no bondage .He will follow > the > > instruction of the God. > > > > > > YOGESH KUMAR SAXENA > > > > -------------------------------- > > Mahendraji raised few questions which arise in the mind of every > > aspirant particularly in the initial stages. I had earlier given > > basics in brief reg some questions. One question was that how to > we > > become animals?Answer is that because we want to become by the > > habits we develop, by our alignment with nature and " gunas " as > Gita > > terms .. > > > > We presume the body to be me and mine. We love body just as a > child > > loves toys. What shall father do if the child wants toys? He will > > buy to please the child. We ourselves do that fully knowing the > > futility thereof. But the child does not know. Similarly our > eternal > > father has created so many toys (bodies) because child loves the > > body more than anything else! Crawling bodies, swimming bodies, > soft > > bodies, flying bodies, large bodies, colurful bodies, invisible > > bodies, You name it . There are 84 lac varieties available. If we > > love eating animals what shall we become? If we love cheating what > > is wrong if we become a spider? If we have a habit of accumulating > > money , if we are greedy the best way is to become honeybee or a > > snake. We want that trait in us to continue so it is continuing. > The > > moment child gets tired, the moment he surrenders, the moment he > > calls father, the moment he realises the truth the play is over > and > > the child is in the arms of Real mother.. The God. As simple as > > that. Sadhakas may give their views. > > > > Mahendraji .... Are you satisfied? There is no need to go anywhere > > except into the arms of Girdhar Gopal. Human birth was the first > > birth we took eons ago and this present human birth can be the > last > > birth if you want. You must want that. You must realise that > bodies > > do not give pleasure. You must seek your origin. You must > surrender. > > You must pray and call the mother. She will come running. She is > > waiting for the child to call her. She is there wherever you are. > > Need is only to summon her but exclusively without any worldly > > motives. Jai Shree Krishna. > > > > Vyas,N.B > > > > -------------------------------- -- > - > > , " sadhak_insight " > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! I feel like expressing myself on the > > subject. > > > > > > As is natural in the beginning, all such and many more questions > > do > > > arise as are asked by Raj ji. I can relate to them. > > > My take on it is: First see that there are underlying > assumptions > > in > > > such questions about oneself being an individual autonomous > human > > > being including belief based on interpretation of what has been > > said > > > or read about process of karmas and reincarnation etc. These > > > assumptions on our part make us ask questions. So validity of > such > > > questions depends to a great extent on assumptions about oneself > > and > > > the world on the part of questioner. In themselves they may not > be > > > formulated. > > > > > > My short answer is to investigate such assumptions and beliefs > or > > > notions, and literal interpretations feeding such ideas. > > > > > > Suppose we ask these questions: > > > > > > Am I the individual I believe I am? What is my proof that I am > so > > > and so apart from the belief? > > > > > > Am I really that which is born and going to die? > > > > > > Who re-incarnates if I am going to re-incarnate as such and > > such...? > > > > > > Am I the doer of deeds that are performed by this body-mind I > call > > > myself? > > > > > > Am I that Atman Scriptures talk about? What is the nature and > > > experience? > > > > > > What is Reality? > > > > > > Such platform as this group, can be helpful, of course. > Scriptures > > > are a great resource as I understand. > > > > > > By having an intense longing to know the truth brings this truth > > to > > > one in some mysterious form to one's door! > > > > > > Answers to questions raised by Raj ji, as I undesrand, may lie > in > > > knowing oneself beyond all assumptions, beliefs, notions, > > opinions, > > > ideas, and so on! > > > > > > Thus I respectfully submit my reformulation of the questions! > > > > > > In another context we may try to answer in details! > > > > > > Namaskras.. Pratap > > > (Pratap Bhatt) > > > ------------------------------ -- > -- > > > > > > We were stainless fragment of God at the beginning. We came > into > > > being because God was alone and he wanted to play. " Ekaki na > > > ramate " ( God was getting bored alone)- Upanishads. We > accumulated > > > sins after being born as human beings because we forgot the > rules > > of > > > play and considered the body as ourselves. We established our > own > > > identity and aligned with the nature to enjoy it while our goal > > was > > > to to remain impartial. We were here to play , there are rules > > for > > > every sport. Here the play was eternal " HIDE AND SEEK " God got > > > hidden and our role was to find him. We were given this world > as > > > stadium. This body is the vehicle given to search. You are > playing > > > foul if you consider any equipment given to you for playing as > > > yours – in other words you incur a sin if you consider the body > to > > > be me or mine. You don't come back in this world because > somebody > > > wants you to come back. You come back because you yourself want > to > > > come back. Who dies without any desire does not comeback. There > is > > > no evolution theory of the type some scientists claim stated > > > anywhere in the Hindu Scriptures. There is no need to repeat any > > > process. This can be your last birth if you want. BUT DO YOU > WANT? > > > > > > Vyas N.B > > > ------------------------------ -- > - > > > Hello, > > > Simply do your sadhana as Krishna says in Gita. " you will reach > > me " > > > i.e. you realise your SELF and there ends the matter as there > will > > > be no more other (ego) to ask questions and only the pure , > Self > > > Effulgent " Sat, Chit , Ananda alone will exist and none else. > > > Therefore, all other hypothetical questions become irrelevant as > > > every one will be a Budha, the enlightened. > > > > > > homma > > > Ramchander Homma > > > ------------------------------ -- > -- > > > > > > > > > , " sadhak_insight " > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Well, whatever you have said on 'attachment' holds water for > the > > > > true seeker of truth. > > > > > > > > But, can you elighten us on two matters viz. our origin and > the > > > > various creatures in evolution as per the Gita ? > > > > > > > > Does Gita cover any of these areas - > > > > > > > > Before being created as human beings who were we? > > > > After being born as human beings how did we accumulate the so- > > > called > > > > sins if we are indeed part of Him and fresh in the human > scheme > > of > > > > births? As per the Gita we reincarnate continously in order to > > > > cleanse ourselves to achieve Godhead. In the chain of > evolution, > > > how > > > > do we go back to the animal form based on our actions of the > > > > respective birth? And there being millions of creatures how do > > we > > > > fit into the respective creature form? If we have evolved from > > the > > > > smallest algae into the human form will the human form be re- > > > > transformed into a creature owing to sins? If that is so, are > we > > > to > > > > repeat the whole process of evolution or start from where we > are > > > put > > > > into? Being born as creatures again, do we carry with us the > > > > memories of our human form sins to remind us to be careful for > > the > > > > next birth? Is it because of this animals cannot communicate > > like > > > > human beings? Are we born again and again as human beings in > > > > different cultures and nations so that we can seek the truth? > > Does > > > > the gender of human birth be the same in all reincarnations? > > What > > > is > > > > stated in the Gita? > > > > > > > > Can you explain, please. > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > (mahendra raj) > > > > ---------------------------- -- > - > > > > > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. > > > > > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: > > > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their > doubts > > > > related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which further > > > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. > > > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other scriptures > to > > > > substantiate your response. > > > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to > the > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita > shlokas > > > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, > respecting > > > > sadhaka's time. > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other > > > > organizations. > > > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as > phone > > > > number, address etc. > > > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular > individual > > > > since the message is going to the entire group. > > > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be > posted. > > > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if > > > content > > > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. > > > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, > youth, > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to > > > Sanskrit > > > > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit > > > bracketed > > > > wherever possible. > > > > > > > > MODERATOR > > > > Ram Ram > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Hari Om Re EKAKI NA RAMATE God did not make this statement to any one. It is the Rishis (Saints) who in their deep meditative states, received these as revelations and wrote the Upanishads, that explained the cause of evolution of this world via this famous sentence. It should not be translated as " Being alone is not happiness " . If you do that then it takes the shape of a law or a principle - and then a lot of things get into the sphere of doubt. It means - " (God ) did not like remaining alone " . That liking or disliking at that point does not necessarily imply that aloneness generates unhappiness! You can be even otherwise very happy and still get bored and want to play. Via this famous sentence the Upanishads explain the cause of Evolution of Life and the cause of eternal play / lila of the God. Many great Saints and Sages, including Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj believe this to be the true cause of the evolution. It is perfectly logical to believe so. Once we take the interpretation that God was alone, He did not like to remain so and hence felt like playing - everything falls into place. He became the World for His own divine play. He played the game of HIDE and SEEK. It is essentially a mind game. It is like a dream only. It is a play. We all are players only in His projected play. In the end the projected players will merge into Him only. Now also we are Him only- though due to the intricacies involved in the game we might have forgotten that. In the beginning there was God alone. In the end He alone shall remain. Hence in the middle also only He is remaining - VASUDEVAH SARVAM (Everything is God - Gita 7 : 19) When you take this forward everything (I repeat EVERYTHING) falls within the sphere of logic. Everything gets explained. No doubts remain. If some one has doubts , please do write. This group is basically for removal of such doubts only. Jai Shree Krishna Vyas N B. -------------------------------- , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > Dear Sadak, > > " EKAKI NA RAMATE " . Ekaki means alone. NA means No. Ramate means > pleased /enjoyable /happy etc > Being alone is not happiness or enjoyable. DID GOD SAY IT WAS HIM? > Was God refering you or somebody? Strictly the Upanashid say, " being > alone is not happiness " . We very easily find mistakes even with > God. We living creatures never liked being alone along with HIM. We > never liked loneliness. > > When you are alone: Dont you get bored. Dont you watch TV. Dont you > go in search of trouble? Dont you go in search of friends? Dont you > simply chat on phone or internet? > Human body in deep sleep develops a whole new world of its own of so > many pleasures/sorrows/pleasing sceans etc. Body was alone with all > dreams. Only on awakening body realises it was Maya (dream) and > nothing to do with it. Due to the dream neither the body nor the > mind got changed. > > We created all the desires, cause and effects. We are rolling in it > birth after birth, but never ever thought of contemplating in > solitude about who we are. If we are really worried about all these > pains and suffering (setting aside our pleasurable times, enjoyable > times) then become like Buddha, Adi Sanakara, Gynaneswar, Tukaram, > etc. Living in family are we detached like what Geetha says. Are we > surrendering as Bagavan says? > > When in height of pleasure we dont think of sorrow. Sorrow comes now > and then in mind asking KIM (Why). Saints discarded pleasures, > wealth, groupism. Puranderadoss was called " Nava Koti Narayana " . > Today that wealth would be trillions of gold. One stroke Puranderdas > left everything behind went away to Panderipuram. He knew seeking > GOD is highest goal of life and everything and everybody on earth > disappears once Pranan stops. We have seen Pranan stopping anytime > from level of baby in womb to older person. We carry the body burry > or cremate, feel " this is all life " for few hours or days. Then back > to the same square one. Yet blame GOD and everybody around us, as if > we are realized souls. Have we blamed ourselves without comparing > others. > > Never want to sit in solitude, never want to control tongue, > feelings, pleasures etc leave controlling anger, desire, jealosy etc > Try not asking questions, but find means/meathods and practice to > reach divinity. Forget things around us, as it is like a movie (2 > hours span). Whole life span, please dont make it a movie. > > B.Sathyanarayan > -------------------------------- > I would also like to share this finding 1986. In this year I > determined that Darwins Model on Evolution was from his findings in > India. He found the following well sung 'Hymn' > > Matysa; Kurma; Vhra; Nar singh; Baman a kaa Avatar A Lia > Please forgive my Amskrit (American Sanskrit) > > Do you see ? Its clearly saying > 1st The Fish to this planet - Matysa (fish) > 2nd The Amphibian Kingdom - Kurma (turtle) > 3rd The Boar - Pig - Mamalian Kingdom > 4th Nar Singh - Man Lion(beast) - This was a tough one but after a > few Lone Stars I fgiured it out. Man splits from the Primate kingdom > 5th Baman - The dwarf (Twenty years to answer this) In 2006 it > became clear. Men will not be smaller. This is poetry. Written for > the mind that enjoys the challenge of the quest. OK enough of that > Shakesparean Junk. What is a dwarf? Only a smaller version of man / > from man. Say 1/2. What is half of man - A Clone. Cm'on guys this is > genius. Ceptin Darwin couldn't figure that part out. > > Veda Shakti! > > Pndt Bud (The Weiser) Bhramin > Deeno Sharma > > > , " sadhak_insight " > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > Yogeshji has indeed captured the substance in the end. " History of > > the man is indeed long search for God " . How come? When God was > > feeling bored he wanted to play. Upanishads say " EKAKI NA RAMATE " . > > So He created us. We were then totally stainless and as good as > God > > himself because essentially we were part of God only- pure > > consciousness, pure existence. We were to play. Play is HIDE AND > > SEEK. Every child even today irrespective of caste creed color and > > country learns this game first thing in life !The game was that > God > > will vanish and we shall search for him. > > > > Now it is a rule of every sport that the the player shall be > > independently exercising his judgement. Hence we were given > > independence. The law is that you have independent powers then you > > should be responsible for the consequences thereof. You are to > > search God ! How do you do that. Some boundaries or some stadium > is > > needed. The world is that stadium. The body , the mind are the > > vehicles. When these rules were framed some souls told God that > > they cant survive without him They must have exit options! If they > > are tired of playing and if God is missing then what? God agreed > > that if any player is tired , he can SURRENDER. As soon as He > > surrenders the game is over as far he is concerned. God takes over > > thereafter. Souls also wanted to ensure that God should not be far > > away. Hence God assured that He will be there wherever they are. > > Right inside them. Anywhere, everywhere, at all times! Then again > we > > were afraid to venture. Now players may also get confused > > sometimes , may get disillusioned.They needed an advisor at their > > disposal. If players forget then also somebody should remind them. > > If they make mistake then some Umpire must point out the mistake! > > Hence every player has got CONSCIENCE ( VIVEKA) sitting right > inside > > them, as representative of God! Your CONSCIENCE is the UMPIRE OR > > REFREE of this game That we do not heed to advices of this great > > advisor is our Ego and misfortune. Then again we were afraid to > > venture. What if emergent situations arise? God said CALL ME but > ME > > ONLY and I shall be there.But a player should never forget the > > object. Object has to be play the game of HIDE AND SEEK. Object > > cannot be to develop attachment with the tools of the play. The > > object cannot be to forget the play , the rules and the advisor's > > calls . Then in every game there are fouls. To sin is a foul in > this > > eternal game. You accumulate good and bad points in every game. > Here > > in this game you accumulate PUNYA AND PAAPS. If you play well , > you > > have heavens waiting for you . If you play bad there is Hell > waiting > > for you, You wanted in the beginning that there must be something > > which should prompt you towards the God- forcefully. PEACE or the > > lack thereof prompts towards the God.. > > > > But alas! We forgot everything, we developed our own individual > egos > > and identities and funnily developed the attachment with the bats, > > balls, pads, stumps ,the stadium i.e. with the tools of the game. > We > > developed ME AND MINENESS with perishables. We forgot why we are > > there? Who are we? We stopped listening to the calls given by > > VIVEKA. We started giving more weightage to the mind and body and > > the funny objects of the world. And we are suffering. We are not > > peaceful. We are hankering after the worldly objects. If only We > > CALL GOD, if only We SURRENDER, if only We listen to our > CONSCIENCE > > all problems will end right now. But ego is the obstacle! > > > > Jai Shree Krishna > > > > Vyas NB > > > > -------------------------------- -- > - > > , " sadhak_insight " > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Evolution of life is an intellectual response to nature. When > > > this 'change' is seen from outside by collecting empirical > > > evidences, this is becoming physical sciences with a purpose to > > > explain the changes occured; and the Giita explains 'sanatan > > > dharma' or the constant process of the change. Sciences can only > > > explain known things, and know-how of it but not those which are > > yet > > > to be known. This means, the process of knowing is not included > in > > > sciences. Einsntein is half scientist and half yogi. By yogi, he > > > began to know the unknown, and by scientist, he tried to explain > > by > > > examples and experiments and using contemporary words to others > > in > > > domain of sciences. By study of science, one cannot have > evolution > > > of himself but write books and archive of Darwin and > librarian. > > > None teaches knowing which is beyond sciences and is a basic to > > > evolution. > > > > > > The 'knowing' is evolution, For example, in human class, > Einstein > > is > > > not equal to other human who do not know what Einstein know. A > > king > > > and slaves both are human in design but differ in evolution of > > > intellect. This process of 'knowing' or gyan is Bhagwat Gita. > > > Within human, there are species and stages of evolution. If > this > > > canvas is extended, cows, birds and fish and human are equal by > > > physical design with differing senory capability; but differ > also > > in > > > intellectual capacity. Bhagwat Gita does not appear to state > that > > > human as superior but 'bhoot' or 'dehabhimaani'. This means > > > recognition of different body are certainly a matter of > condition > > of > > > living in nature, and not superior or inferior. > > > > > > Body is relevant for natural condition, and it responds like > > finest > > > machine. But this is not priority in Bhagwat Gita. Sri Krishna > has > > > explained in first two chapters that death and life are like > > changes > > > in cloth or house and actual person is never killed by sword or > by > > > fire. Death is big business because of the fear of it and it is > > > natural. If people stop dying, they will be hated like non > > > biodegradable plastics. Which design of body one wants depends > on > > > thoughts while leaving the current body. For example, if you > leave > > a > > > job as engineer and apply for job of general manager in another > > > company, this is rebirth. You don't need to retain complex > > > engineering in mind but only contain basic rational ability that > > can > > > aply to organization. This thought will produce design of new > body > > > and new place for further journey of the life. > > > > > > This is all. Bhagwat Giita is seeing the change or evolution > > within, > > > and is not a science of materials. > > > regards > > > K G > > > (Krishna Gopal) > > > ------------------------------ -- > -- > > > An Equation of Life and it's religion > > > This universe, in truth, is nothing. There were no heaven and no > > > hell, nor the same in existence at present. Every action has > it's > > own > > > repercussion. > > > This was the comedy of the error with an amplifier, having the > co– > > > incident, that the life is originated in this universe. There > was > > no > > > sign of existence after the creation of earth. The sun was > having > > its > > > radiation on the newly created planets after disintegration. > Thus > > the > > > earth was also having the turmoil of uncertainty in the process. > > > Gradually the heat transmitted in the atmosphere. There was the > > > creation of the gases. The nitrogen, helium and ozone gases were > > > emitting from the earth. There was the nuclear fusion and nuclear > > > fission. The molecules were disintegrated into the hydrogen > > particles > > > and likewise there was also the creation of oxygen from the ozone > > > gases. After unification of the molecules of oxygen with > hydrogen, > > > the water came into existence in the form of the gases. There > was a > > > period of transmission of energy in the atmosphere. However, > > > gradually the preservation of the heat could have only been > > > regulated. The coverage was provided to the universe from the > outer > > > periphery of ozone layer on the outer side of the atmosphere. > Thus > > by > > > getting the protection through the outer radiation from the > infra > > red > > > and ultra violet rays, there was the cooling effect in the > > > atmosphere. This process has gradually converted the steam of the > > > water particles situated in the atmosphere to the condensation > > > process. By having the rain of the water and other chemicals > from > > the > > > internal surface of the atmosphere, there was the accumulation > of > > the > > > water every where. However, subsequently due to the emission of > the > > > particles from the lower surface of the earth, there was again > the > > > vapor formation. These processes remain operative for thousands > of > > > millions years before when as a mere co-incidence, the water was > > > accumulated in the ocean of the earth. There was no such rain as > > were > > > in existence, but the mountains started from where the process of > > > evolution generated. There was the alga formation on the > mountains > > > and ridges and similarly there was a jelly formation in the > water > > due > > > to friction of the molecules. Thus the live molecule was created > in > > > side the jelly like substance in the water and thereafter the > > > formation of the ameba taken place on this earth. The theory of > > > evolution of life is the subsequent process. > > > The vital question for consideration for our human being is to > the > > > effect as to whether the same process is a mere co-incident at > the > > > time of the birth of an individual. There is the generating of > the > > > heat in the process of life when the idea is exchanged. These > ideas > > > ultimately become the process of reproduction. There is the > > > combination of the molecule again in the similar process. > > Thereafter > > > the creation of the zygote inside the ovary of the female. Thus > if > > we > > > consider the life being originated from the ocean, whether the > > > penetration of the sperm in the egg is also the starting point > of > > the > > > theory of reproduction. Ultimately the life is converted into a > > > reality when the living organism took place in the process. We > > forget > > > that the existence of our life is similar to the creation of the > > > universe. Thus we start thinking for our survival. The struggle > is > > of > > > no significance because it continue for some period and > thereafter > > it > > > vanishes from its origin and thereafter the human being realizes > > that > > > his existence is for the time being. > > > This was a mere co-incident that a particular `Y' chromosome was > > > penetrated in the egg and meet with `X' chromosome. Thereafter > the > > > process of life started. The shape and the identity of the > person > > are > > > concentrated on particular genes. When our existence is of such a > > > small molecule from where we can get ourselves being recognized > > with > > > some identity. This is the illusion of life when we claim for the > > > recognition of our existence. The creation of the false > existence > > is > > > a direct assault on the identity of the power that has created > our > > > life. Even if we deny taking into our identity, the very > existence > > of > > > God, but still the value of the life cannot be put to any doubt > for > > > always being a controlling factor over the living being. > > > This is the starting point of our wisdom. The moment we give up > to > > > our intelligentsia through logical perceptions by converting it > > from > > > analysis by observation, the reality of truth comes to the > memory. > > > This process ultimately lead to an individual from committing > any > > sin > > > as the repercussion of the same may be detrimental to one's own > > > existence. No body will like to loose his own existence for the > > mere > > > satisfaction of his egoistic nature. Thus ultimately we use to > > > connect ourselves from some controlling power and thereafter the > > > existence of God comes to our conscience. This is the ultimate > > truth > > > of life. > > > History of man is one long search for God. However, we cannot > > > to the theologian's theory of God. Life is the image of > > > God, which is essentially a spiritual being. If the equation of > > life > > > is taken into consideration, there can be no doubt that the man > > > cannot eternally remain forgetful of his spiritual nature. Then > he > > > will find out his self. > > > Time is having three-dimensional Picture, in which, there are > > certain > > > memories of the past having it's permanent impact on the way of > > > thinking; the present as we have visualized it from such angle; > and > > > the future with our expectation to be fulfilled. Thus in this > > > process, we may side-tracked from our inherent characteristics > and > > > may start challenging the time-honored customs. The reckless > spirit > > > of defiance of well-established sacred principle becomes the way > of > > > life. There is the open crusade against the religion. There is no > > > religion equal to it's potential, in which, there may be > compassion > > > for the animals and birds, truthfulness in the behavior and love > > for > > > the fellow being. Thus the religion is based on the philosophy of > > > brotherhood and spiritual cult of life. The places, where there > is > > > the program organized to slaughter the animals, as that of > giving > > the > > > sacrifices to the deity, these are not the places of religion but > > > these are slaughterhouses. > > > I have known the truth, but you can not know it. This is the > > > preaching of every prophet. There lies their greatness. Thus they > > > bring down the highest truth to the door of every man but never > > allow > > > it to reach to such man. This is the religion of life. The true > > > religion, which may be achieved through spiritual knowledge, > seeks > > > the truths of the inner world. > > > Bondage is of the mind, and freedom also is of the mind. A man is > > > free if he constantly thinks and feels: I am a free soul. Life > and > > > death are in the mind of the man. Thus one should have a burning > > > faith in God. He may feel that he has no bondage .He will follow > > the > > > instruction of the God. > > > > > > > > > YOGESH KUMAR SAXENA > > > > > > ------------------------------ -- > > > Mahendraji raised few questions which arise in the mind of every > > > aspirant particularly in the initial stages. I had earlier given > > > basics in brief reg some questions. One question was that how to > > we > > > become animals?Answer is that because we want to become by the > > > habits we develop, by our alignment with nature and " gunas " as > > Gita > > > terms .. > > > > > > We presume the body to be me and mine. We love body just as a > > child > > > loves toys. What shall father do if the child wants toys? He > will > > > buy to please the child. We ourselves do that fully knowing the > > > futility thereof. But the child does not know. Similarly our > > eternal > > > father has created so many toys (bodies) because child loves the > > > body more than anything else! Crawling bodies, swimming bodies, > > soft > > > bodies, flying bodies, large bodies, colurful bodies, invisible > > > bodies, You name it . There are 84 lac varieties available. If > we > > > love eating animals what shall we become? If we love cheating > what > > > is wrong if we become a spider? If we have a habit of > accumulating > > > money , if we are greedy the best way is to become honeybee or a > > > snake. We want that trait in us to continue so it is continuing. > > The > > > moment child gets tired, the moment he surrenders, the moment he > > > calls father, the moment he realises the truth the play is over > > and > > > the child is in the arms of Real mother.. The God. As simple as > > > that. Sadhakas may give their views. > > > > > > Mahendraji .... Are you satisfied? There is no need to go > anywhere > > > except into the arms of Girdhar Gopal. Human birth was the first > > > birth we took eons ago and this present human birth can be the > > last > > > birth if you want. You must want that. You must realise that > > bodies > > > do not give pleasure. You must seek your origin. You must > > surrender. > > > You must pray and call the mother. She will come running. She is > > > waiting for the child to call her. She is there wherever you > are. > > > Need is only to summon her but exclusively without any worldly > > > motives. Jai Shree Krishna. > > > > > > Vyas,N.B > > > > > > ------------------------------ -- > -- > > - > > > , " sadhak_insight " > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! I feel like expressing myself on the > > > subject. > > > > > > > > As is natural in the beginning, all such and many more > questions > > > do > > > > arise as are asked by Raj ji. I can relate to them. > > > > My take on it is: First see that there are underlying > > assumptions > > > in > > > > such questions about oneself being an individual autonomous > > human > > > > being including belief based on interpretation of what has > been > > > said > > > > or read about process of karmas and reincarnation etc. These > > > > assumptions on our part make us ask questions. So validity of > > such > > > > questions depends to a great extent on assumptions about > oneself > > > and > > > > the world on the part of questioner. In themselves they may > not > > be > > > > formulated. > > > > > > > > My short answer is to investigate such assumptions and beliefs > > or > > > > notions, and literal interpretations feeding such ideas. > > > > > > > > Suppose we ask these questions: > > > > > > > > Am I the individual I believe I am? What is my proof that I am > > so > > > > and so apart from the belief? > > > > > > > > Am I really that which is born and going to die? > > > > > > > > Who re-incarnates if I am going to re-incarnate as such and > > > such...? > > > > > > > > Am I the doer of deeds that are performed by this body-mind I > > call > > > > myself? > > > > > > > > Am I that Atman Scriptures talk about? What is the nature and > > > > experience? > > > > > > > > What is Reality? > > > > > > > > Such platform as this group, can be helpful, of course. > > Scriptures > > > > are a great resource as I understand. > > > > > > > > By having an intense longing to know the truth brings this > truth > > > to > > > > one in some mysterious form to one's door! > > > > > > > > Answers to questions raised by Raj ji, as I undesrand, may lie > > in > > > > knowing oneself beyond all assumptions, beliefs, notions, > > > opinions, > > > > ideas, and so on! > > > > > > > > Thus I respectfully submit my reformulation of the questions! > > > > > > > > In another context we may try to answer in details! > > > > > > > > Namaskras.. Pratap > > > > (Pratap Bhatt) > > > > ---------------------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > > > > > > We were stainless fragment of God at the beginning. We came > > into > > > > being because God was alone and he wanted to play. " Ekaki na > > > > ramate " ( God was getting bored alone)- Upanishads. We > > accumulated > > > > sins after being born as human beings because we forgot the > > rules > > > of > > > > play and considered the body as ourselves. We established our > > own > > > > identity and aligned with the nature to enjoy it while our > goal > > > was > > > > to to remain impartial. We were here to play , there are rules > > > for > > > > every sport. Here the play was eternal " HIDE AND SEEK " God got > > > > hidden and our role was to find him. We were given this world > > as > > > > stadium. This body is the vehicle given to search. You are > > playing > > > > foul if you consider any equipment given to you for playing as > > > > yours – in other words you incur a sin if you consider the > body > > to > > > > be me or mine. You don't come back in this world because > > somebody > > > > wants you to come back. You come back because you yourself > want > > to > > > > come back. Who dies without any desire does not comeback. > There > > is > > > > no evolution theory of the type some scientists claim stated > > > > anywhere in the Hindu Scriptures. There is no need to repeat > any > > > > process. This can be your last birth if you want. BUT DO YOU > > WANT? > > > > > > > > Vyas N.B > > > > ---------------------------- -- > -- > > - > > > > Hello, > > > > Simply do your sadhana as Krishna says in Gita. " you will > reach > > > me " > > > > i.e. you realise your SELF and there ends the matter as there > > will > > > > be no more other (ego) to ask questions and only the pure , > > Self > > > > Effulgent " Sat, Chit , Ananda alone will exist and none else. > > > > Therefore, all other hypothetical questions become irrelevant > as > > > > every one will be a Budha, the enlightened. > > > > > > > > homma > > > > Ramchander Homma > > > > ---------------------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sadhak_insight " > > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well, whatever you have said on 'attachment' holds water for > > the > > > > > true seeker of truth. > > > > > > > > > > But, can you elighten us on two matters viz. our origin and > > the > > > > > various creatures in evolution as per the Gita ? > > > > > > > > > > Does Gita cover any of these areas - > > > > > > > > > > Before being created as human beings who were we? > > > > > After being born as human beings how did we accumulate the > so- > > > > called > > > > > sins if we are indeed part of Him and fresh in the human > > scheme > > > of > > > > > births? As per the Gita we reincarnate continously in order > to > > > > > cleanse ourselves to achieve Godhead. In the chain of > > evolution, > > > > how > > > > > do we go back to the animal form based on our actions of the > > > > > respective birth? And there being millions of creatures how > do > > > we > > > > > fit into the respective creature form? If we have evolved > from > > > the > > > > > smallest algae into the human form will the human form be re- > > > > > transformed into a creature owing to sins? If that is so, > are > > we > > > > to > > > > > repeat the whole process of evolution or start from where we > > are > > > > put > > > > > into? Being born as creatures again, do we carry with us the > > > > > memories of our human form sins to remind us to be careful > for > > > the > > > > > next birth? Is it because of this animals cannot communicate > > > like > > > > > human beings? Are we born again and again as human beings in > > > > > different cultures and nations so that we can seek the > truth? > > > Does > > > > > the gender of human birth be the same in all reincarnations? > > > What > > > > is > > > > > stated in the Gita? > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain, please. > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > (mahendra raj) > > > > > -------------------------- -- > -- > > - > > > > > > > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. > > > > > > > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: > > > > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their > > doubts > > > > > related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which > further > > > > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. > > > > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other > scriptures > > to > > > > > substantiate your response. > > > > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to > > the > > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita > > shlokas > > > > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, > > respecting > > > > > sadhaka's time. > > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. > > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other > > > > > organizations. > > > > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as > > phone > > > > > number, address etc. > > > > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular > > individual > > > > > since the message is going to the entire group. > > > > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be > > posted. > > > > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, if > > > > content > > > > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the group. > > > > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, > > youth, > > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use to > > > > Sanskrit > > > > > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit > > > > bracketed > > > > > wherever possible. > > > > > > > > > > MODERATOR > > > > > Ram Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 What does the God mean - " the tree of life " ashwadha vruksha in the Gita chapter 15 - Purushottma Praapti. " udharavamula madhashakam ashwadham prahuravayam chandansi yasya parnani yestam veda saveda vith. " Please explain - and any connection with evolution as in this discussion ? " cvvishnuvardhan " ----------------------------- Dear Sadaks, Again " being alone is not happiness " what Rishis said is mistook. Rishis meant, be with thought of GOD, dwell in GOD, be ONLY in SAT SANGH, be alone in solitude understanding GOD is within you and everywhere and so you are not alone. Beeing alone is devil workshop. Why did so many saints remain in forest? Hari Doss was alone in Brindavan in a hut singing wonderful songs on Sri Krishna. Meera was not in company with anyone. What realy meant I feel is, " bring into your heart that SRI Krishna and be with HIM'. That stage the whole world becomes no use. Bagavan has said in Geetha, " Anniya Chinthayayome-- " . means be with Bagavan not with the world. All of us know the history of Durva. He walked alone in forest. Narada met him and said go back as he may loss his life. Durva insisted to see VISNU. Nardana said to Durva, " one cannot reach Vaikunt to see Visnu with human body " . Durva said, " then tell me the way for Visnu to come to me " . All know what methods he did to unstable the whole unviverse. Visne did come. Now Durva lives in stlar region one can believe. Being alone must be meant, No path, No goal, No contemplation, No inquiry on the SELF etc. Budha was was alone under Bodi tree, Ramana Rishi was alone in a hole in Thiruvannamalai without food and water for 60 days, Adi Sankara was alone in a room in Moogabiga templewhich one could see today, Jada Bharatha was alone never in company and did that Kaali save him from being beheaded. Namalvar was alone in childhood under a tree for years one could see today that place in Nava Thirupathi, Arunagiri Nathar was alone 12 years under a tree inside Thiruvanaamalai temple. WITHOUT BAGAVAN WITHIN IS ALONE. One may have friends, relatives, wealth, health, fame etc but without Bagavan in him- He is alone which is NA RAMATE. All that is Ramiya (beautiful) will vanish in one second as soon as the breath stops. That time of last breath if SRI KRISHNA comes to a person he is only one who has best benifited out of living. Also all that is beatiful and pleasurable becomes invaid once the equipment body gets bed ridden. Once you are sick and doctors loosing hope, you call Oh GOD save me. Why not call people around you. It is here you are alone with GOD which is RAMATHE giving mental peace and hope that you have chance to survive. B.Sathyanarayan ----------------------------- EVOLUTION OF OUR BEING This path of evolution will allow us to understand the basic principles of the universe in a concrete way Evolution is the progressive development of organizational complexity. This definition is an expression of the idea that the body more capable of controlling the middle and all the living organisms that is the most developed. " The survival of the strongest " means that the body more evolved in an environment as is one that is located at the top of the food chain in that environment. Therefore, and according to this definition, the body better able to ensure its own survival is the most evolved. Our deep understanding tells us that a truly evolved human been is one that appreciates himself, and that values love more than everything in the physical world. Now we must ensure that our understanding of evolution is a deep understanding. It is important that we succeed, because our common understanding of the evolution reflects the stage that we are abandoning it now. If we make a review of this understanding, we can perceive the extent to which we have evolved, and what we are about to leave behind. Reflecting an understanding of new developments and expansion, one that accepts our deepest truths, we can see where we are going to evolve, and what that means for our experience, our values and how they act. This path of evolution will allow us to understand the basic principles of the universe in a concrete manner. Thanks to our senses, we know that every action generate a cause, and that every cause has an effect. We know the results of our intentions. We know that fury kills. We know that goodness nourishes us. Besides experience our skills to improve knowledge. For example we see that a stick can serve as a tool and we can find out the effects when we choose to use it. The hands that manufacture bombs can build schools. We note also that when life activities are infused respect, are filled with meaning and get good results. We also noticed when is no respect to the vital activities, the result is only one, cruelty, violence and loneliness. El ruedo físico es un medio de aprendizaje magnífico. The physical arena is a magnificent learning environment. This is a school thanks to which, through experience, we come to understand what causes us to go to expansion or against, what makes it grow or, conversely, we choose, what nourishes our souls and what the exhausts, what works and what does not. When the means of life is through only the five senses, physical survival, it shows as the sole criteria of evolution, since it can not detect any other. Thus, the survival of the fittest appears to us as a synonym for evolution and the physical domain is apparently the main feature of evolutionary progress. The need for physical domination produces a kind of competition that affects every aspect of our lives. Influences in relations between lovers and between superpowers, between relatives and between races, between social classes and between sexes. Brake the natural tendency towards harmony. The power to control and those in it is a power on which we all know for experience, tested, seen or heard. This is an external power that can be won and lost, bought or sold, transferred or inherited. We think of it as something that can snatch or found somewhere. We see increasing power of one person, while the other loses. The violence and destruction are the results of contemplating the power of this form. All our institutions, whether political, economic, social reflect this way of understanding power. Families as the cultures are patriarchal or matriarchal, something that children learn very quickly and mark their lives. The police and military are the result of the perception of power as something external. The medals, boots, uniforms, ranks, communication equipment and weapons are symbols of fear. Those who take them without fear defenses confronted the world. The other fear the power they represent. Police and military in the same way that families and patriarchal or matriarchal cultures, have no clue in the perception of power as something external. They are reflections of how we, as a species and as individuals, we have come to contemplate power. The perception of power as something external has also marked economic systems, whose control is concentrated in too few hands. We have created associations and unions to protect workers from these people. In order to safeguard the interests of the poor have organised defence systems. All this is a perfect reflection of how we have come to perceive power: as a possession belonging to a minority, while most fulfils the role of victims. Money is a symbol of power. Those who possess more wealth have greater ability to control their environment and those who are in it, while those without it have less control of the environment and those who are in it. The money is acquired but also is lost, stolen, is inherited and fight for him. Education, social possession, fame and property owners that we are symbols of power externally. But in reality is an increase in our vulnerability. And this is a consequence of contemplating power as external element. From this perception, those who are on the cusp seem the most powerful and, hence, the most valuable and less vulnerable. At the heart of attaining power lies violencia. The second benefit is behind regional conflicts, ideological, religious or personal. Esta percepción de poder hace pedazos la psique, tanto si se trata de la del individuo como de la comunidad, nación o región. This perception of power makes big damage into psyche, whether the individual, community, nation or region. There is no difference between an acute schizophrenia and a world war between the agony of a shattered soul and a devastated nation. A couple face the same dynamics that give rise to power when humans are afraid of one race to another. Proceeding from this kind of dynamic, we had been forming our current understanding of evolution as a process of ever-increasing ability to dominate the middle and all that is in it. But our deeper understanding leads us to seek another kind of power. A power that loves life in all its forms, but that does not judge perceives that its meaning and intentions until more intimate detail about these world. In tune our thoughts and actions with the highest part of ourselves, fills us with enthusiasm, objectives and meaning. Life is rich and full, we forget to have spiteful thoughts and memories of fear. We are happy and committed to our world. This is the experience of real power. This real power is rooted in the deepest source of our being. The real power can not be bought or acumulate. A truly powerful person is incapable of converting to another victim, is so strong-has such power that does not accept the idea of using force against other beings. An understanding of the evolution is not appropriate when you do not have as the nucleus of the fact that we are undertaking a journey to the real power, and this is the end of our evolutionary process and purpose of our being. Evolved from a species that pursues exterior powers to another that seeks genuine power, and in this way we back the exploration of the physical world as the only means of evolution and reject knowledge that is the fruit of consciousness limited to penta sensory modality. These methods are no longer adequate to the world that we are obliged to set Posted by Víctor Manuel Guzmán Villena -------------------------------- , " sadhak_insight " <sadhak_insight wrote: > > Hari Om > > Re EKAKI NA RAMATE > > God did not make this statement to any one. It is the Rishis > (Saints) who in their deep meditative states, received these as > revelations and wrote the Upanishads, that explained the cause of > evolution of this world via this famous sentence. It should not be > translated as " Being alone is not happiness " . If you do that then it > takes the shape of a law or a principle - and then a lot of things > get into the sphere of doubt. It means - " (God ) did not like > remaining alone " . That liking or disliking at that point does not > necessarily imply that aloneness generates unhappiness! You can be > even otherwise very happy and still get bored and want to play. > > Via this famous sentence the Upanishads explain the cause of > Evolution of Life and the cause of eternal play / lila of the God. > Many great Saints and Sages, including Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji > Maharaj believe this to be the true cause of the evolution. It is > perfectly logical to believe so. Once we take the interpretation > that God was alone, He did not like to remain so and hence felt > like playing - everything falls into place. He became the World for > His own divine play. He played the game of HIDE and SEEK. It is > essentially a mind game. It is like a dream only. It is a play. We > all are players only in His projected play. In the end the > projected players will merge into Him only. Now also we are Him only- > though due to the intricacies involved in the game we might have > forgotten that. In the beginning there was God alone. In the end > He alone shall remain. Hence in the middle also only He is > remaining - VASUDEVAH SARVAM (Everything is God - Gita 7 : 19) > > When you take this forward everything (I repeat EVERYTHING) falls > within the sphere of logic. Everything gets explained. No doubts > remain. If some one has doubts , please do write. This group is > basically for removal of such doubts only. > > Jai Shree Krishna > > Vyas N B. > -------------------------------- > , " sadhak_insight " > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sadak, > > > > " EKAKI NA RAMATE " . Ekaki means alone. NA means No. Ramate means > > pleased /enjoyable /happy etc > > Being alone is not happiness or enjoyable. DID GOD SAY IT WAS HIM? > > Was God refering you or somebody? Strictly the Upanashid > say, " being > > alone is not happiness " . We very easily find mistakes even with > > God. We living creatures never liked being alone along with HIM. > We > > never liked loneliness. > > > > When you are alone: Dont you get bored. Dont you watch TV. Dont > you > > go in search of trouble? Dont you go in search of friends? Dont > you > > simply chat on phone or internet? > > Human body in deep sleep develops a whole new world of its own of > so > > many pleasures/sorrows/pleasing sceans etc. Body was alone with > all > > dreams. Only on awakening body realises it was Maya (dream) and > > nothing to do with it. Due to the dream neither the body nor the > > mind got changed. > > > > We created all the desires, cause and effects. We are rolling in > it > > birth after birth, but never ever thought of contemplating in > > solitude about who we are. If we are really worried about all > these > > pains and suffering (setting aside our pleasurable times, > enjoyable > > times) then become like Buddha, Adi Sanakara, Gynaneswar, Tukaram, > > etc. Living in family are we detached like what Geetha says. Are > we > > surrendering as Bagavan says? > > > > When in height of pleasure we dont think of sorrow. Sorrow comes > now > > and then in mind asking KIM (Why). Saints discarded pleasures, > > wealth, groupism. Puranderadoss was called " Nava Koti Narayana " . > > Today that wealth would be trillions of gold. One stroke > Puranderdas > > left everything behind went away to Panderipuram. He knew seeking > > GOD is highest goal of life and everything and everybody on earth > > disappears once Pranan stops. We have seen Pranan stopping anytime > > from level of baby in womb to older person. We carry the body > burry > > or cremate, feel " this is all life " for few hours or days. Then > back > > to the same square one. Yet blame GOD and everybody around us, as > if > > we are realized souls. Have we blamed ourselves without comparing > > others. > > > > Never want to sit in solitude, never want to control tongue, > > feelings, pleasures etc leave controlling anger, desire, jealosy > etc > > Try not asking questions, but find means/meathods and practice to > > reach divinity. Forget things around us, as it is like a movie (2 > > hours span). Whole life span, please dont make it a movie. > > > > B.Sathyanarayan > > -------------------------------- > > I would also like to share this finding 1986. In this year I > > determined that Darwins Model on Evolution was from his findings > in > > India. He found the following well sung 'Hymn' > > > > Matysa; Kurma; Vhra; Nar singh; Baman a kaa Avatar A Lia > > Please forgive my Amskrit (American Sanskrit) > > > > Do you see ? Its clearly saying > > 1st The Fish to this planet - Matysa (fish) > > 2nd The Amphibian Kingdom - Kurma (turtle) > > 3rd The Boar - Pig - Mamalian Kingdom > > 4th Nar Singh - Man Lion(beast) - This was a tough one but after a > > few Lone Stars I fgiured it out. Man splits from the Primate > kingdom > > 5th Baman - The dwarf (Twenty years to answer this) In 2006 it > > became clear. Men will not be smaller. This is poetry. Written for > > the mind that enjoys the challenge of the quest. OK enough of that > > Shakesparean Junk. What is a dwarf? Only a smaller version of > man / > > from man. Say 1/2. What is half of man - A Clone. Cm'on guys this > is > > genius. Ceptin Darwin couldn't figure that part out. > > > > Veda Shakti! > > > > Pndt Bud (The Weiser) Bhramin > > Deeno Sharma > > > > > > , " sadhak_insight " > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > Yogeshji has indeed captured the substance in the end. " History > of > > > the man is indeed long search for God " . How come? When God was > > > feeling bored he wanted to play. Upanishads say " EKAKI NA > RAMATE " . > > > So He created us. We were then totally stainless and as good as > > God > > > himself because essentially we were part of God only- pure > > > consciousness, pure existence. We were to play. Play is HIDE > AND > > > SEEK. Every child even today irrespective of caste creed color > and > > > country learns this game first thing in life !The game was that > > God > > > will vanish and we shall search for him. > > > > > > Now it is a rule of every sport that the the player shall be > > > independently exercising his judgement. Hence we were given > > > independence. The law is that you have independent powers then > you > > > should be responsible for the consequences thereof. You are to > > > search God ! How do you do that. Some boundaries or some stadium > > is > > > needed. The world is that stadium. The body , the mind are the > > > vehicles. When these rules were framed some souls told God that > > > they cant survive without him They must have exit options! If > they > > > are tired of playing and if God is missing then what? God agreed > > > that if any player is tired , he can SURRENDER. As soon as He > > > surrenders the game is over as far he is concerned. God takes > over > > > thereafter. Souls also wanted to ensure that God should not be > far > > > away. Hence God assured that He will be there wherever they are. > > > Right inside them. Anywhere, everywhere, at all times! Then > again > > we > > > were afraid to venture. Now players may also get confused > > > sometimes , may get disillusioned.They needed an advisor at > their > > > disposal. If players forget then also somebody should remind > them. > > > If they make mistake then some Umpire must point out the > mistake! > > > Hence every player has got CONSCIENCE ( VIVEKA) sitting right > > inside > > > them, as representative of God! Your CONSCIENCE is the UMPIRE OR > > > REFREE of this game That we do not heed to advices of this great > > > advisor is our Ego and misfortune. Then again we were afraid to > > > venture. What if emergent situations arise? God said CALL ME > but > > ME > > > ONLY and I shall be there.But a player should never forget the > > > object. Object has to be play the game of HIDE AND SEEK. Object > > > cannot be to develop attachment with the tools of the play. The > > > object cannot be to forget the play , the rules and the > advisor's > > > calls . Then in every game there are fouls. To sin is a foul in > > this > > > eternal game. You accumulate good and bad points in every game. > > Here > > > in this game you accumulate PUNYA AND PAAPS. If you play well , > > you > > > have heavens waiting for you . If you play bad there is Hell > > waiting > > > for you, You wanted in the beginning that there must be > something > > > which should prompt you towards the God- forcefully. PEACE or > the > > > lack thereof prompts towards the God.. > > > > > > But alas! We forgot everything, we developed our own individual > > egos > > > and identities and funnily developed the attachment with the > bats, > > > balls, pads, stumps ,the stadium i.e. with the tools of the > game. > > We > > > developed ME AND MINENESS with perishables. We forgot why we > are > > > there? Who are we? We stopped listening to the calls given by > > > VIVEKA. We started giving more weightage to the mind and body > and > > > the funny objects of the world. And we are suffering. We are > not > > > peaceful. We are hankering after the worldly objects. If only We > > > CALL GOD, if only We SURRENDER, if only We listen to our > > CONSCIENCE > > > all problems will end right now. But ego is the obstacle! > > > > > > Jai Shree Krishna > > > > > > Vyas NB > > > > > > ------------------------------ -- > -- > > - > > > , " sadhak_insight " > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Evolution of life is an intellectual response to nature. When > > > > this 'change' is seen from outside by collecting empirical > > > > evidences, this is becoming physical sciences with a purpose > to > > > > explain the changes occured; and the Giita > explains 'sanatan > > > > dharma' or the constant process of the change. Sciences can > only > > > > explain known things, and know-how of it but not those which > are > > > yet > > > > to be known. This means, the process of knowing is not > included > > in > > > > sciences. Einsntein is half scientist and half yogi. By yogi, > he > > > > began to know the unknown, and by scientist, he tried to > explain > > > by > > > > examples and experiments and using contemporary words to > others > > > in > > > > domain of sciences. By study of science, one cannot have > > evolution > > > > of himself but write books and archive of Darwin and > > librarian. > > > > None teaches knowing which is beyond sciences and is a basic > to > > > > evolution. > > > > > > > > The 'knowing' is evolution, For example, in human class, > > Einstein > > > is > > > > not equal to other human who do not know what Einstein know. A > > > king > > > > and slaves both are human in design but differ in evolution of > > > > intellect. This process of 'knowing' or gyan is Bhagwat Gita. > > > > Within human, there are species and stages of evolution. If > > this > > > > canvas is extended, cows, birds and fish and human are equal > by > > > > physical design with differing senory capability; but differ > > also > > > in > > > > intellectual capacity. Bhagwat Gita does not appear to state > > that > > > > human as superior but 'bhoot' or 'dehabhimaani'. This means > > > > recognition of different body are certainly a matter of > > condition > > > of > > > > living in nature, and not superior or inferior. > > > > > > > > Body is relevant for natural condition, and it responds like > > > finest > > > > machine. But this is not priority in Bhagwat Gita. Sri Krishna > > has > > > > explained in first two chapters that death and life are like > > > changes > > > > in cloth or house and actual person is never killed by sword > or > > by > > > > fire. Death is big business because of the fear of it and it > is > > > > natural. If people stop dying, they will be hated like non > > > > biodegradable plastics. Which design of body one wants > depends > > on > > > > thoughts while leaving the current body. For example, if you > > leave > > > a > > > > job as engineer and apply for job of general manager in > another > > > > company, this is rebirth. You don't need to retain complex > > > > engineering in mind but only contain basic rational ability > that > > > can > > > > aply to organization. This thought will produce design of new > > body > > > > and new place for further journey of the life. > > > > > > > > This is all. Bhagwat Giita is seeing the change or evolution > > > within, > > > > and is not a science of materials. > > > > regards > > > > K G > > > > (Krishna Gopal) > > > > ---------------------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > > An Equation of Life and it's religion > > > > This universe, in truth, is nothing. There were no heaven and > no > > > > hell, nor the same in existence at present. Every action has > > it's > > > own > > > > repercussion. > > > > This was the comedy of the error with an amplifier, having the > > co– > > > > incident, that the life is originated in this universe. There > > was > > > no > > > > sign of existence after the creation of earth. The sun was > > having > > > its > > > > radiation on the newly created planets after disintegration. > > Thus > > > the > > > > earth was also having the turmoil of uncertainty in the > process. > > > > Gradually the heat transmitted in the atmosphere. There was the > > > > creation of the gases. The nitrogen, helium and ozone gases > were > > > > emitting from the earth. There was the nuclear fusion and > nuclear > > > > fission. The molecules were disintegrated into the hydrogen > > > particles > > > > and likewise there was also the creation of oxygen from the > ozone > > > > gases. After unification of the molecules of oxygen with > > hydrogen, > > > > the water came into existence in the form of the gases. There > > was a > > > > period of transmission of energy in the atmosphere. However, > > > > gradually the preservation of the heat could have only been > > > > regulated. The coverage was provided to the universe from the > > outer > > > > periphery of ozone layer on the outer side of the atmosphere. > > Thus > > > by > > > > getting the protection through the outer radiation from the > > infra > > > red > > > > and ultra violet rays, there was the cooling effect in the > > > > atmosphere. This process has gradually converted the steam of > the > > > > water particles situated in the atmosphere to the condensation > > > > process. By having the rain of the water and other chemicals > > from > > > the > > > > internal surface of the atmosphere, there was the accumulation > > of > > > the > > > > water every where. However, subsequently due to the emission > of > > the > > > > particles from the lower surface of the earth, there was again > > the > > > > vapor formation. These processes remain operative for > thousands > > of > > > > millions years before when as a mere co-incidence, the water > was > > > > accumulated in the ocean of the earth. There was no such rain > as > > > were > > > > in existence, but the mountains started from where the process > of > > > > evolution generated. There was the alga formation on the > > mountains > > > > and ridges and similarly there was a jelly formation in the > > water > > > due > > > > to friction of the molecules. Thus the live molecule was > created > > in > > > > side the jelly like substance in the water and thereafter the > > > > formation of the ameba taken place on this earth. The theory of > > > > evolution of life is the subsequent process. > > > > The vital question for consideration for our human being is to > > the > > > > effect as to whether the same process is a mere co-incident at > > the > > > > time of the birth of an individual. There is the generating of > > the > > > > heat in the process of life when the idea is exchanged. These > > ideas > > > > ultimately become the process of reproduction. There is the > > > > combination of the molecule again in the similar process. > > > Thereafter > > > > the creation of the zygote inside the ovary of the female. > Thus > > if > > > we > > > > consider the life being originated from the ocean, whether the > > > > penetration of the sperm in the egg is also the starting point > > of > > > the > > > > theory of reproduction. Ultimately the life is converted into a > > > > reality when the living organism took place in the process. We > > > forget > > > > that the existence of our life is similar to the creation of > the > > > > universe. Thus we start thinking for our survival. The > struggle > > is > > > of > > > > no significance because it continue for some period and > > thereafter > > > it > > > > vanishes from its origin and thereafter the human being > realizes > > > that > > > > his existence is for the time being. > > > > This was a mere co-incident that a particular `Y' chromosome > was > > > > penetrated in the egg and meet with `X' chromosome. Thereafter > > the > > > > process of life started. The shape and the identity of the > > person > > > are > > > > concentrated on particular genes. When our existence is of > such a > > > > small molecule from where we can get ourselves being > recognized > > > with > > > > some identity. This is the illusion of life when we claim for > the > > > > recognition of our existence. The creation of the false > > existence > > > is > > > > a direct assault on the identity of the power that has created > > our > > > > life. Even if we deny taking into our identity, the very > > existence > > > of > > > > God, but still the value of the life cannot be put to any > doubt > > for > > > > always being a controlling factor over the living being. > > > > This is the starting point of our wisdom. The moment we give > up > > to > > > > our intelligentsia through logical perceptions by converting > it > > > from > > > > analysis by observation, the reality of truth comes to the > > memory. > > > > This process ultimately lead to an individual from committing > > any > > > sin > > > > as the repercussion of the same may be detrimental to one's own > > > > existence. No body will like to loose his own existence for > the > > > mere > > > > satisfaction of his egoistic nature. Thus ultimately we use to > > > > connect ourselves from some controlling power and thereafter > the > > > > existence of God comes to our conscience. This is the ultimate > > > truth > > > > of life. > > > > History of man is one long search for God. However, we cannot > > > > to the theologian's theory of God. Life is the image > of > > > > God, which is essentially a spiritual being. If the equation > of > > > life > > > > is taken into consideration, there can be no doubt that the man > > > > cannot eternally remain forgetful of his spiritual nature. > Then > > he > > > > will find out his self. > > > > Time is having three-dimensional Picture, in which, there are > > > certain > > > > memories of the past having it's permanent impact on the way of > > > > thinking; the present as we have visualized it from such > angle; > > and > > > > the future with our expectation to be fulfilled. Thus in this > > > > process, we may side-tracked from our inherent characteristics > > and > > > > may start challenging the time-honored customs. The reckless > > spirit > > > > of defiance of well-established sacred principle becomes the > way > > of > > > > life. There is the open crusade against the religion. There is > no > > > > religion equal to it's potential, in which, there may be > > compassion > > > > for the animals and birds, truthfulness in the behavior and > love > > > for > > > > the fellow being. Thus the religion is based on the philosophy > of > > > > brotherhood and spiritual cult of life. The places, where > there > > is > > > > the program organized to slaughter the animals, as that of > > giving > > > the > > > > sacrifices to the deity, these are not the places of religion > but > > > > these are slaughterhouses. > > > > I have known the truth, but you can not know it. This is the > > > > preaching of every prophet. There lies their greatness. Thus > they > > > > bring down the highest truth to the door of every man but > never > > > allow > > > > it to reach to such man. This is the religion of life. The true > > > > religion, which may be achieved through spiritual knowledge, > > seeks > > > > the truths of the inner world. > > > > Bondage is of the mind, and freedom also is of the mind. A man > is > > > > free if he constantly thinks and feels: I am a free soul. Life > > and > > > > death are in the mind of the man. Thus one should have a > burning > > > > faith in God. He may feel that he has no bondage .He will > follow > > > the > > > > instruction of the God. > > > > > > > > > > > > YOGESH KUMAR SAXENA > > > > > > > > ---------------------------- -- > -- > > > > Mahendraji raised few questions which arise in the mind of > every > > > > aspirant particularly in the initial stages. I had earlier > given > > > > basics in brief reg some questions. One question was that how > to > > > we > > > > become animals?Answer is that because we want to become by the > > > > habits we develop, by our alignment with nature and " gunas " as > > > Gita > > > > terms .. > > > > > > > > We presume the body to be me and mine. We love body just as a > > > child > > > > loves toys. What shall father do if the child wants toys? He > > will > > > > buy to please the child. We ourselves do that fully knowing > the > > > > futility thereof. But the child does not know. Similarly our > > > eternal > > > > father has created so many toys (bodies) because child loves > the > > > > body more than anything else! Crawling bodies, swimming > bodies, > > > soft > > > > bodies, flying bodies, large bodies, colurful bodies, > invisible > > > > bodies, You name it . There are 84 lac varieties available. If > > we > > > > love eating animals what shall we become? If we love cheating > > what > > > > is wrong if we become a spider? If we have a habit of > > accumulating > > > > money , if we are greedy the best way is to become honeybee or > a > > > > snake. We want that trait in us to continue so it is > continuing. > > > The > > > > moment child gets tired, the moment he surrenders, the moment > he > > > > calls father, the moment he realises the truth the play is > over > > > and > > > > the child is in the arms of Real mother.. The God. As simple > as > > > > that. Sadhakas may give their views. > > > > > > > > Mahendraji .... Are you satisfied? There is no need to go > > anywhere > > > > except into the arms of Girdhar Gopal. Human birth was the > first > > > > birth we took eons ago and this present human birth can be the > > > last > > > > birth if you want. You must want that. You must realise that > > > bodies > > > > do not give pleasure. You must seek your origin. You must > > > surrender. > > > > You must pray and call the mother. She will come running. She > is > > > > waiting for the child to call her. She is there wherever you > > are. > > > > Need is only to summon her but exclusively without any worldly > > > > motives. Jai Shree Krishna. > > > > > > > > Vyas,N.B > > > > > > > > ---------------------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > - > > > > , " sadhak_insight " > > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! I feel like expressing myself on the > > > > subject. > > > > > > > > > > As is natural in the beginning, all such and many more > > questions > > > > do > > > > > arise as are asked by Raj ji. I can relate to them. > > > > > My take on it is: First see that there are underlying > > > assumptions > > > > in > > > > > such questions about oneself being an individual autonomous > > > human > > > > > being including belief based on interpretation of what has > > been > > > > said > > > > > or read about process of karmas and reincarnation etc. These > > > > > assumptions on our part make us ask questions. So validity > of > > > such > > > > > questions depends to a great extent on assumptions about > > oneself > > > > and > > > > > the world on the part of questioner. In themselves they may > > not > > > be > > > > > formulated. > > > > > > > > > > My short answer is to investigate such assumptions and > beliefs > > > or > > > > > notions, and literal interpretations feeding such ideas. > > > > > > > > > > Suppose we ask these questions: > > > > > > > > > > Am I the individual I believe I am? What is my proof that I > am > > > so > > > > > and so apart from the belief? > > > > > > > > > > Am I really that which is born and going to die? > > > > > > > > > > Who re-incarnates if I am going to re-incarnate as such and > > > > such...? > > > > > > > > > > Am I the doer of deeds that are performed by this body-mind > I > > > call > > > > > myself? > > > > > > > > > > Am I that Atman Scriptures talk about? What is the nature > and > > > > > experience? > > > > > > > > > > What is Reality? > > > > > > > > > > Such platform as this group, can be helpful, of course. > > > Scriptures > > > > > are a great resource as I understand. > > > > > > > > > > By having an intense longing to know the truth brings this > > truth > > > > to > > > > > one in some mysterious form to one's door! > > > > > > > > > > Answers to questions raised by Raj ji, as I undesrand, may > lie > > > in > > > > > knowing oneself beyond all assumptions, beliefs, notions, > > > > opinions, > > > > > ideas, and so on! > > > > > > > > > > Thus I respectfully submit my reformulation of the questions! > > > > > > > > > > In another context we may try to answer in details! > > > > > > > > > > Namaskras.. Pratap > > > > > (Pratap Bhatt) > > > > > -------------------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > We were stainless fragment of God at the beginning. We came > > > into > > > > > being because God was alone and he wanted to play. " Ekaki > na > > > > > ramate " ( God was getting bored alone)- Upanishads. We > > > accumulated > > > > > sins after being born as human beings because we forgot the > > > rules > > > > of > > > > > play and considered the body as ourselves. We established > our > > > own > > > > > identity and aligned with the nature to enjoy it while our > > goal > > > > was > > > > > to to remain impartial. We were here to play , there are > rules > > > > for > > > > > every sport. Here the play was eternal " HIDE AND SEEK " God > got > > > > > hidden and our role was to find him. We were given this > world > > > as > > > > > stadium. This body is the vehicle given to search. You are > > > playing > > > > > foul if you consider any equipment given to you for playing > as > > > > > yours – in other words you incur a sin if you consider the > > body > > > to > > > > > be me or mine. You don't come back in this world because > > > somebody > > > > > wants you to come back. You come back because you yourself > > want > > > to > > > > > come back. Who dies without any desire does not comeback. > > There > > > is > > > > > no evolution theory of the type some scientists claim > stated > > > > > anywhere in the Hindu Scriptures. There is no need to repeat > > any > > > > > process. This can be your last birth if you want. BUT DO YOU > > > WANT? > > > > > > > > > > Vyas N.B > > > > > -------------------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > - > > > > > Hello, > > > > > Simply do your sadhana as Krishna says in Gita. " you will > > reach > > > > me " > > > > > i.e. you realise your SELF and there ends the matter as > there > > > will > > > > > be no more other (ego) to ask questions and only the pure , > > > Self > > > > > Effulgent " Sat, Chit , Ananda alone will exist and none > else. > > > > > Therefore, all other hypothetical questions become > irrelevant > > as > > > > > every one will be a Budha, the enlightened. > > > > > > > > > > homma > > > > > Ramchander Homma > > > > > -------------------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " sadhak_insight " > > > > > <sadhak_insight@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, whatever you have said on 'attachment' holds water > for > > > the > > > > > > true seeker of truth. > > > > > > > > > > > > But, can you elighten us on two matters viz. our origin > and > > > the > > > > > > various creatures in evolution as per the Gita ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Does Gita cover any of these areas - > > > > > > > > > > > > Before being created as human beings who were we? > > > > > > After being born as human beings how did we accumulate the > > so- > > > > > called > > > > > > sins if we are indeed part of Him and fresh in the human > > > scheme > > > > of > > > > > > births? As per the Gita we reincarnate continously in > order > > to > > > > > > cleanse ourselves to achieve Godhead. In the chain of > > > evolution, > > > > > how > > > > > > do we go back to the animal form based on our actions of > the > > > > > > respective birth? And there being millions of creatures > how > > do > > > > we > > > > > > fit into the respective creature form? If we have evolved > > from > > > > the > > > > > > smallest algae into the human form will the human form be > re- > > > > > > transformed into a creature owing to sins? If that is so, > > are > > > we > > > > > to > > > > > > repeat the whole process of evolution or start from where > we > > > are > > > > > put > > > > > > into? Being born as creatures again, do we carry with us > the > > > > > > memories of our human form sins to remind us to be careful > > for > > > > the > > > > > > next birth? Is it because of this animals cannot > communicate > > > > like > > > > > > human beings? Are we born again and again as human beings > in > > > > > > different cultures and nations so that we can seek the > > truth? > > > > Does > > > > > > the gender of human birth be the same in all > reincarnations? > > > > What > > > > > is > > > > > > stated in the Gita? > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain, please. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raj > > > > > > (mahendra raj) > > > > > > ------------------------ -- > -- > > -- > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > The following are the guidelines for Gita-Talk discussions. > > > > > > > > > > > > GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: > > > > > > 1. Purpose of the group is to help Sadhakas clarify their > > > doubts > > > > > > related to Gitaji shalokas. Therefore, responses which > > further > > > > > > clarify the understanding of Gitaji, will only be posted. > > > > > > 2. Wherever possible, please quote Gitaji or other > > scriptures > > > to > > > > > > substantiate your response. > > > > > > 3. Kindly limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. > to > > > the > > > > > > extent that they further help in understanding the Gita > > > shlokas > > > > > > 4. Please be as concise and to the point as possible, > > > respecting > > > > > > sadhaka's time. > > > > > > 5. Kindly focus your writing to the subject at hand only. > > > > > > 6. Please do not include links to the other sites or other > > > > > > organizations. > > > > > > 7. Kindly do not include your personal information such as > > > phone > > > > > > number, address etc. > > > > > > 8. Please do not address the response to a particular > > > individual > > > > > > since the message is going to the entire group. > > > > > > 9. Due to the large readership, all responses may not be > > > posted. > > > > > > 10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting, > if > > > > > content > > > > > > is unclear or not appropriate for distribution to the > group. > > > > > > 11. Please respond taking into consideration the novices, > > > youth, > > > > > > westerners, non-sectarian audience. Kindly limit the use > to > > > > > Sanskrit > > > > > > words only, rather provide the English word with Sanskrit > > > > > bracketed > > > > > > wherever possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > MODERATOR > > > > > > Ram Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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